Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Incredible to see if you're with us on Bloomberg Tv or on YouTube. Flights taken off from the runways at DCA operations trying to get back to normal, even as recovery crews are still working.
In the Potomac.
As we see, I can't imagine flying into the airport on this day, but you're right, they start a little bit later than they had planned. In the noontime hour, we saw the first flight takeoff and land at Reagan National Airport. They had been, of course, stopped a full ground stop, and that whole area was kind of strange actually, how quiet it was this morning, Kaylee. I look pretty close to the airport and drive by there on my way into work. It's usually a pretty busy affair at
rush hour. It felt like a Sunday.
Morning, well in a busy airport, usually with a lot of congestion concern which is being raised anew in the aftermath of the events today, not just when it comes to commercial airspace, but airspace that is also shared with the US military, which is what has resulted obviously stress tragic events and of course the largest air tragedy in terms of fatalities in the United States we have seen
in about fifteen years, since two thousand and nine. And on that note, we want to turn to the person who was Secretary of Transportation newly minted himself at that time, Former Secretary Rayla Hood is with us now here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Sir, thank you very much for your time. Obviously, this is something I'm sure no one in a Secretary of Transportation position wants to have to deal with. Just walk us through what is actually happening in the department, the NTSB, the FAA right now as
we speak. And for Sean Duffy, having gone through this yourself all these years ago.
Oh, I think Sean has done a good job. In terms of being in the job for only two days. It's a very tough situation to be put in. I'm glad the President has named someone as acting FAA Administrator, a very very important position and has responsibility for air traffic controllers and the FAA generally, I think we should reach out and our hearts do go out to the family members as they wait to hear about their loved ones that have perished and some have been found, some
haven't been found. I think our attention should really be on the family members and thoughts and prayers with them. I think really the questions that have been raised and the answers to those questions won't be really solved until the NTSB really delves into this and investigates it. This is an agency that's independent, it's not given to any politicaliosophy. Of extraordinarily talented people at the NTSB career people, professional people.
Many of them have been involved in investigations of plane crashes all over America and some around the world, so they know what they're doing. They do take their time and deliberate and collect all the information. Obviously, or want to look at the black boxes in the plane, in the helicopter. They want to listen to the tapes from the air traffic controllers and their conversations with the pilot of the American Eagle flight UH and then talk to as many people as they possibly can and and so
this is uh. This will be a lengthy investigation and but NTSB will get to the bottom of it and they will identify what the issues are. Now for starters, we know that this is one of the busiest airspaces in the country. You have Dallas Airport, an international airport. You have Reagan Airport an international airport. You have Baltimore which is nearby an international airport. You have a lot
of general aviation airports. You have the military at the Andrews Air Force Base and other places where helicopters take off. So there's a lot of activity in a very in a very very busy airspace, and I'm sure the NTSB will be looking at that also and trying to determine if there are too many planes and helicopters in the air at one time. And so there'll be a lot of activity over the next several months. But the NTSB will get us answers.
Well, we do look forward to some answers.
Secretary of Hood, I don't know how you feel about the President speaking and advance sharing his opinion on what happen and how that kind of impacts the way people are looking at this whole process. That is very deliberate to your point, professionals working at the NTSB with an enormous amount of experience. But he's talking about your former administration. I don't know what you think about this, he said. I changed the Obama standards from very mediocre at best
to extraordinary. When I left office and Biden took over, he changed them back to lower than ever before.
I put safety first.
Obama, Biden and the Democrats put policy first. This kind of language was pretty unusual to hear from the White House briefing room as a recovery operation is still underway.
Secretary, what's he talking about?
I think we don't want to get ahead of the NTSB. You don't want to get ahead of the professionals who will go in depth on the causes of the crash and they'll make.
You see right that the Obama administration changed safety standards though, or can we knock that down together right now?
Well, if you look at the statement that I made before the Commerce Committee for my nomination, I talked about safety number one priority. If you look at the four and a half years that we were at DOT, we implemented some of the highest safety standards for every mode of Transportation, and when the Colgan air crash occurred in February of twenty nine, I was new in the secretary's position. I reached out to the families. I talked to all
of the families. I reached out to Congress with the families, and with Congress we passed one of the highest People complimented us on the legislation that Congress passed for more pilot training, for more pilot rest, for making sure that pilots. In the case of Colgan, it was during an ice storm as they were coming into Buffalo, New York that caused the plane to crash, plus not proper training by
the pilots. And I've never really heard any criticism of the time that we were there four and a half years, of any compromise of safety. We took safety as the highest priority. You talked to anybody in the industry about our administration and our priority on safety, and we get very high marked. So look at We will wait to see what the NTSB says, But in terms of safety,
during my time at DOT, the highest standards were set. Now, I think if you talked to the families of the Colgan air crash or to Congress passed a safety bill, safety for pilots, more training for pilots. They will tell you we worked very hard in a bipartisan way to get to the highest safety standards.
Well, and we appreciate that look back, sir, But if we could look forward as well, and we consider Reagan Airport, which has had much debate around the addition of flight slots last year to different destinations across the US ten round trip plates in total, these questions around military aircraft having to share space and adjust altitudes with commercial aircraft.
Do you see the need for changes here in terms of congestion at this airport, specifically given its proximity to the nation's capital.
Well, I believe there's way way too much activity in that region. And for what I said before, three major international airports, General Aviation Airports, Andrews Air Force Base, the Military Air Command that exists very Reagan, and I think that will be looked at by the NTSB. It's a very very crowded airspace and I think the NTSB will take a very very careful look at that. Last year when Congress passed additional slots, additional opportunities for aircraft to
fly into Reagan, I thought that was a mistake. There's just too much congestion.
One of those flights that was added was, in fact the route from Wichitsaw that airplane was flying last night. Secretary of the Hood Donald Trump was asked if how he can come to the conclusion that diversity was involved in this crash, and he said, because I have common sense, and unfortunately a lot of people don't. Is this dangerous talk before we hear from the NTSB, when we're speculating on a level like this.
Well, Joe, what I'm going to do is what I think most Americans are going to do. Let's wait till the experts. Let's wait till the professionals. Let's wait till the career people at NTSB who've done many, many, many of these investigations.
The President's not waiting though. That's why I asked the answer. Absolutely, and I don't want.
Opinion a corner, but the President of the United States seemed to do something a little different today, and that's why your experience is important to us. We'd love to talk to you once we do learn more about this from.
The NTSB later today.
Raylan is the former US Secretar Area Transportation, and I appreciate your caution in talking with us Today's secretary, and of course thinking of the families here. We're thinking as well of some three hundred rescue workers who have been in freezing cold water in a harrowing and terrifying experience for them.
Yeah, in incredibly difficult conditions. As we've mentioned that work is still underway. As of the latest update, only twenty eight bodies have been recovered. It's believed sixty seven people, all of the individuals who are on board these two aircraft, are not believed to have survived this crash, and I would just reiterate we do not definitively know what caused this crash, despite suggestions that were made by the President of the United States earlier. We are awaiting a briefing
from the NTSB. It's coming up a two forty five Eastern time.
We'll bring that to you here on Bloomberg. We'll assemble our panel next as well.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our Flagship New York station. Just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.
It is the Thursday edition, and we start with tragic news here, of course, a tragedy that's hitting a lot of families here across the Washington region. American Eagle flight fifty three forty two in a mid air collision with a military black Hawk helicopter. And of course this is now a situation where a rescue operation has become a recovery operation, having been staged at the airport since early
this morning DCA National Airport. Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall joins us right now with the latest that she's hearing from authorities on the ground.
Tyler, what can you tell us?
Yeah, hey, Joe, we know that twenty seven bodies have been recovered from the Potomac River. We know that sixty four victims were on that American Airlines flight three. We're on the Blackhawk helicopter when the pair collided. A lot of questions still remain. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy came out and said that all of this could have been preventable. We also heard from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who called this a quote mistake, suggesting that it might have been
an elevation issue at play here. We're still waiting though on additional questions, considering authorities say that both of those aircraft were on routine of flight paths. The NTSB is expected to brief shortly and will be efforting some additional answers there.
Right, Tyler, thank you so much.
We'll get back with Tyler throughout the day as she learns more from the airport. And we want to bring in the voice of an expert here before we assembled our panel. Jeff Wise is where this aviation journalist, host of the Finding MH three to seventy podcast, has been covering the commercial airline sector and aviation at large for years, and Jeff, I want to welcome you to Bloomberg. We heard a doozy of a news conference with the President
a short time ago. He blamed the Biden administration, specific Pete Bodhaj edge around the Transportation Department and more broadly DEI policy for resulting in a crash that appears to if you also listen to what else you said, appears to likely have not been the faults of the air traffic controller or any of the other regulators and FAA
operators who were involved. You've got your own take on this in a column today that I want to ask you about, Jeff, But what did you make of what the president said?
Is any of that true or provable?
Well, you know, listen, safety is a tedious, meticulous, careful, not exciting game.
Right.
You have to cross your t's and dot your eyes, and you know, it's not exciting, it's not entertaining, it's not you know, making a big show. And so if you come in and you're going to just sort of make wild accusations and connect unconnected thoughts and everything, that's how safety works.
Right.
On the other hand, I will say this, the President said that he thought the military helicopter was to blame him, and which is, you know, in itself, kind of crazy protocol wise. But anyway, it does seem like in my judgment that it was the helicopter that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So it will be interesting to see what the NTSP has to say about this. It is sort of in contrast with what if his own Transportation secretary, believe had to say that everyone was on the correct path.
It is pretty wild to step in front of the NTSB and make statements like that. I think to your point, Jeff, we can also let our viewers and listeners know that the NTSB has in fact, just now scheduled in news briefing that will take place two hours from now two forty five pm East coast time. You're writing, Jeff, safe operation is particularly a challenge at Reagan, of course, National Airport.
We're talking about, you say, a small airport very close to the Washington City Center, whose users include a large number of people with considerable power over the.
Aviation system itself.
Is this a congestion story that we're talking about because you know people are reaching and you're writing about it too. The roots that were added last year, I believe five of them at the behest of lawmakers who wanted more long range routes coming out of DCA. This has been an argument going back years. Remember John McCain talking about this, trying to get back to Arizona. Is it smart to be pointing people in that direction right now? If this, in fact was the fault of the military helicopter.
Well it gets down to overworked air traffic controllers. And if the FAA is saying, look, this is a small airport. We can only carry so much traffic.
You're overloading us.
There is danger, and then those dangers bear fruit. I don't think those things are unconnected. And you have a kind of tragedy of the commons dynamic going where if lawmakers can say, oh, I want this extra route, even though you're overloaded, even though you don't think you can carry this much traffic safely, I want you to add another route because I want to get home. It's for my own sake. And that's just not a safe dynamic.
You point out the flight that crashed was a route added last year. Is I mentioned this is one of the couple that were out of as a result. You write of pressure from Kansas Senator Jerry Moran, Republicans spoke this morning at the news conference.
I know that flight.
I've flown it many times myself, he said. I lobbied American Airlines to begin having a direct, NonStop flight service to DCA.
So here we are.
Donald Trump seems to think that this is basically something that the FAA needs to sort out.
After you heard Jerry Moran, what did you think?
Yeah, I mean, I think this is really a bad look for him. You know, I think as a legislator. I'm sure he's proud that he was able to, you know, tweak the powers the leavers of government to get what he wanted for himself and his constituencies. He might want to fly to DC as well as him But look, this is he lobbied for the addition of a flight over the objection of the FAA, which wound up getting into a fatal accident. So he I hope he has
like some thought that he might. I hope he second guesses his own logic, is what I'm saying.
You invoke the saying that I can't use on the air f around and find out fool around. Talk about Donald Trump's move. Sure we can do that, Donald Trump's moved to eliminate the Aviation Security Advisory Committee. The fact that the FAA administrator quit at the behest of Elon Musk on the twentieth of January. You say, as the saying goes, this crash puts us unambiguously in the find
out stage of the process. Jeff, they're still pulling bodies, They're still looking for bodies in the Potomac River.
What do you mean by that?
This is that we are bearing the process of ignoring safety, of undermining safety, of deprioritizing safety is bearing fruit in the form of dead bodies being pulled out of the river. Safety is boring. It's not interesting, it's not exciting. And if you do it properly, what you get is nothing.
Nothing happens, It's invisible. And so if you're smart and you're sensible, and you understand cause and effect, and you want to create a meticulous system to prevent this kind of thing happening, which was successful for where is it now? Sixteen years? And now it has broken down. And you know, they say, if you see a cockroach, it doesn't mean you have a cockroach, it means you have a thousand cockroaches.
And this accident should be telling us something. And if we don't want to pull more bodies out of more crash sites, we should think carefully about cause and effect and less about entertainment and scoring political points with completely unrelated dogma and really put this in the hands of grown ups.
Rankly, I'm glad you could come on with us today. Jeff Wise, aviation expert. Clearly.
He's also a contributing author to New York Magazine, Popular Mechanics Magazine. Thanks for bringing your expertise to us, Jeff, as we assemble our panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino are with us here on a difficult day in Washington, of course, both Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick is our Republican strategist partner at Stone Court Capital, and Genie is our Democratic analyst and senior Democracy fellow with the Center for
the Study of the Presidency and Congress. Rick, I'll start with you today, and I'm curious your thoughts on everything that we're talking about. I didn't want to do a panel on this. This was not supposed to be a political story. Donald Trump made it one today, for better or worse, and he's blaming largely DEI. He also put the names Joe Biden, Pete Boudage, Edge, and Barack Obama on this.
Have you ever heard of anything like this?
Well, first, Joe, I would say, our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims of this horrific accident. Thank you, and I hope that the healing can begin even after a press conference that you know, did anything but start that process. So I do think that you have to expect this with the president who wants to lay blame. He's a quick draw when it comes to doing that, and partly because he doesn't want it to
land on his desk, right. I mean, we had an entire administration, you know, in his first term where you know, he wasn't prepared to take responsibility for acts of his cabinet. And that's just who he is, right, That's the guy we elected president of United States, and so it shouldn't be a surprise that this is his mo But I would say the flashing red signal politically on this is he is the least popular president at the start of
a term since nineteen fifty three. That's not a attribute that is easy to overcome.
So if he is.
Thinking about wanting to sustain his power and office as a lame duck on election day, you would think that he would think through opportunities like this to unify the nation and to focus their attention on things that can actually keep this from happening again. I mean, no question, we need to evaluate our air traffic control system to ensure that we're using the best and most capable technology that the market has to all and that the people who we have are the best trained and best equipped
to do the job to ensure future safety. That would have been a perfectly acceptable approach for the president to take today and no more.
I'm really glad that you guys are both on today because this is pretty sensitive stuff.
Genie. I don't know where you want to go here.
I should point out by the way Donald Trump did make news in that news conference. There was a headline Acting Commission to the FAA, Chris Rushlow joining hands here with Sean Duffy and transportation secretaries but on the job for something like forty eight hours. I mean, this is really tough stuff, Genie. But when you consider the human element, and I appreciate Rick taking time to consider the families who are gathered waiting for horrible news right now.
Donald Trump, we had to bleep this.
He used to swear to describe Pete boodhaj Edge, essentially saying that he thought the workforce was too white. Pete Heeksas says the.
Era of DEI is gone. Jd Vance echoing that.
Or when somebody asked Donald Trump, how can you come to the conclusion that diversity had something to do with this fatal plane crash, he said, because I have common sense, okay, And unfortunately a lot of people don't.
How are we doing so far?
Genie, you summarized it very well, Joe, And of course we feel horrible for these families, as Rick said, and this should not be a political moment. And that's what's so shocking in one sense and not so shocking if you've been following Donald Trump and the other that a few miles down the road from where they are pulling bodies still out of the Potomac River, these first responders who are been doing yeomen's work down there, and just
the horror of that. He stepped to the stepped up to the microphone, and I have to say, Joe, for a moment, I said, he is being unifying. He asked for a moment of silence. He said, we all share in the grief, and that's certainly all true. And then, as you mentioned, he pivoted to politics, because if there's one thing we know about Donald Trump, the buck does not stop with him. The blame starts with him, and he wanted to blame everybody else, and that's what we're
in for. And when Peter Alexander of NBC asked him the question about why this had been on the why this has been the policy since he was president. He balked at that, But let me give you one more to Jeff's long list. Sean Duffy in for forty eight hours, maybe twenty four. The first thing he did as Department of Transportation secretary had nothing to do with safety. Look up his first press release. It is rescinding Woke Deea
policies that advanced Donald Trump's economic agenda. If there is truly a problem with hiring practices that are impacting safety, then why isn't the Transportation secretary talking about that first and foremost? But they're not. And so this is part and parcel of what we signed up for. Certainly what we're getting at this point.
Boy, the lines that we heard from everyone in the briefing room say it all. Rick, Donald Trump said, I put safety first, Obama Biden and the Democrats put policy first. Will this actually change policy in Washington?
Yeah, not totally clear what that means, because policy in regard to air travel is about safety, and so I think, you know, you'd have to drill down on that a little bit more to understand what the differences are. And look, I mean, we have as a nation an incredibly good safety record, right It's not like the entire system has been broken. But we have seen in the news over and over and over again, close call here, close call there.
And so the reality of it is is, you know, it's said earlier on the program, if you see one roach, there are a thousand. Is this the one roach? And so I would think a really great endeavor is to not think about how we got here, but to think about the future and focus on a really significant effort on the part of the Department of Transportation and other agencies that are involved to ensure that we have the most up to date, technologically advanced smart system of air travel.
Yeah, and keeping in mind, of course, the families and as well as Genie points out, the rescuers who are still operating in freezing cold and dark water in the Potomac River, not very far from where I am sitting right now. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com.