Bad People - podcast cover

Bad People

BBC Radio 5 Livewww.bbc.co.uk

Murderers. Fraudsters. Internet trolls. This is a podcast about people who do terrible things, and the science of humanity’s dark side.

Series producer: Louisa Field Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Ailsa Strathie Dr Sarah Laurence Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Episodes

66. Respawn: What is child-to-parent violence?

Daniel Petric grabbed his father's 9mm handgun from a lockbox and while his siblings were away shot both of his parents. He had been planning his revenge for a week. Before he made his escape in the family minivan, Daniel grabbed the one thing this was all for: the Halo 3 video game his parents wouldn’t let him play. The Defense argued that Petric’s sense of reality was altered because of all the video games he played. Can his love of video games help explain why he attacked his parents? Or is t...

Jul 21, 202236 min

65. Bloody footprint: What rights does a dead body have?

In 1987 in the town of Royal Tunbridge Wells, a “peeping Tom” is spotted lurking by the windows of women. Soon after, Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce are both found brutally murdered and sexually assaulted after their deaths. Thirty year later, a special task force dedicated to cold cases finally track down the man who became known as the “Bedsit Killer”. The case takes a nasty turn when the police make a horrifying discovery at the killer’s home. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and...

Jul 14, 202233 min

Bi People 4: Are bisexuals invisible at work?

US politician, Katie Hill, is one of the first politicians to openly identify as bisexual while campaigning for office. However things quickly take a turn for the worse as she is entangled in a scandal, and the media share naked photos of her in a sexual relationship with a younger female member of staff. Would the fallout have been different if she had stayed in the closet? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In th...

Jun 30, 202228 min

Bi People 3: Could you prove your sexuality?

Omar comes to the UK after falling in love with a British woman. After his relationship breaks down, he seeks asylum, claiming it is unsafe for him to return to The Gambia because he has been persecuted and assaulted for being bisexual. But can he prove his bisexuality in court? Can anyone? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, they discuss research on the difficulties faced by bisexual aslyum seekers...

Jun 23, 202236 min

Bi People 2: Why did Pride begin?

Police officers are locked in a pub in New York. People attempt to set the building on fire. And a riot begins. It spreads across the city and lasts for a full three days. But what triggered the riots? And how did it lead to the Pride marches we see all over the world today? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, Julia and Sofie discuss the origins of Pride marches, how they make their own sexual ident...

Jun 16, 202232 min

Bi People 1: How queer are you?

Running a bookshop might sound like the epitome of a quiet life. But for one man, the act of selling a very specific book resulted in his arrest - and led to the publisher of that book taking his own life. What made it so controversial? In celebration of Pride Month, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this first episode, they discuss the origins of sexuality research and their own sexual identities. Warning: This episode includes mention of ...

Jun 09, 202234 min

Bi People is coming soon

In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. They discuss research on how we can measure sexuality, what REALLY happened during the Stonewall uprising, and the bi-acivists who fought to make pride happen. This is Bi People.

Jun 02, 20222 min

64. Underworld Aristocracy: Who chooses solitary confinement?

John McAvoy’s biological father passed away shortly before he was born, leaving him to be raised by a community of women. As a child, John loved history, was bright and ambitious and wanted to leave his mark on the world. He also happened to be Micky McAvoy’s nephew, a notorious criminal and the mastermind behind Brinks-Mat, the biggest gold heist in UK history. Soon what started as a childhood dream to own British Telecom turned into a career as an armed robber. But John turned it all around in...

Apr 28, 202229 min

63. No socks: Why do people confess their crimes?

In 1983 Kieran Patrick Kelly, who was living on the streets of London at the time, was brought into Clapham Police Station for attacking and stealing an old man’s watch and wedding ring. Kelly murdered his cell-mate during his first night in custody for snoring too loudly. While under questioning he went on to willingly confess to multiple other murders the police didn’t know about nor suspect him of – essentially he willingly confessed to being a serial killer. In this episode of Bad People Dr ...

Apr 21, 202227 min

62. Unabomber 2: A mastermind with a lack of insight?

After six years of inactivity, the Unabomber is back. The FBI reinvigorate the investigation and the chase begins once more. When Ted Kaczynski’s brother, David, finds an earlier version of the Unabomber’s Manifesto among a series of letters from Ted to their mother, he calls the FBI. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss Kaczynski’s childhood, dubious psychological testing at Harvard University and challenge the media narrative that he was some sort of ‘c...

Apr 14, 202230 min

61. Unabomber 1: How far are technophobes willing to go?

From 1978 to 1995, Ted Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, built and mailed a series of homemade bombs, killing three people and injuring many more. Kaczynski lived alone in a cabin in the woods, in Lincoln, Montana and documented his ‘failures’ and ‘successes’ in code, in a personal journal. His targets were university professors, technocrats and anyone seen to further, as he saw it, technological development. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen unpick what...

Apr 07, 202227 min

60. Little Helen: How fallible are forensics?

On the 20th of April 1934, eight-year-old Helen was sent to buy bread for her mother. She reached the bakery around 1.30 in the afternoon, spent exactly 4 dimes and was seen returning home by a few neighbors. But she never made it all the way and later that day her parents, friends and the police began a search that lasted through the night. What do Aberdeen, a half-loaf of bread, and the history of forensic science have in common? In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the festival Gra...

Mar 24, 202241 min

59. Poster boy: When is homophobia a hate crime?

In 1998 Matthew Shepard, becomes the victim of radical homophobia in Wyoming. Two suspects, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson are almost immediately taken into custody and charged. The “gay panic” defense is used in court. But, does it work? Shepard becomes the poster boy for the horrific consequences of anti-gay hate, and his case helps to re-define hate crimes in the US. Celebrities get involved, marches are held, and a decade later, in 2009, the United States Congress passes the Matthew Sh...

Mar 17, 202235 min

Message for our listeners

A Bad People special episode will be available shortly. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen speak to Gordon Corera, the Security Consultant on Killing Eve. They discuss ‘dry cleaning’, secret recording devices and fake identities.

Mar 13, 202248 sec

58. Africa Eye: Black Market Babies

Klenice grew up in a village in rural Western Kenya. When both her parents passed away, she dropped out of school and started working to support herself. The father of her first child also died unexpectedly and by the age of 22 she was a single mother. What drives a mother to sell her own child? And who facilitates such a sale? In 2019, BBC Africa Eye launched an investigation into Kenya’s black market for babies. Presenter Njeri Mwangi worked on the yearlong undercover operation and joins Dr Ju...

Mar 10, 202238 min

57. The Iceman: Who becomes a contract killer?

The Iceman, Richard Kuklinski, was a notorious contract killer. Over the course of his ‘career’ he, by his own admission, killed over 100 people. Some were contracted murders – hits - others were victims of revenge and a few were just at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Richard Kuklinski had links to the Gambino family, was efficient and killed in a myriad of ways. In the process, he made himself, and his family, rich. Who hires contract killers? What is the interview process like? And do you...

Mar 03, 202236 min

56. Death on camera: How can we tackle white fragility?

In 1998, Christopher Alder spent the evening at the "student night" of a nightclub in Hull, England. The night escalated dramatically and eventually lead to a national conversation about racism and the police's treatment of Black people. A video released years after Alder's tragic death revealed audible "monkey noises", reviving the discussion about the case and the important issues it raises. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the circumstances that led to Chris...

Feb 24, 202237 min

55. Jon Ronson: The Satanic Panic

When day-care employee, Kelly Michaels, is accused of playing the piano naked in front of children, she is speechless. The case escalates and soon Kelly Michaels is faced with charges of outlandish crimes. The trial changes her life forever. She spends years in prison before being exonerated. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by writer Jon Ronson, who interviewed Kelly Michaels for the podcast “Things Fell Apart”. They discuss how her case was part of a the ...

Feb 17, 202241 min

54. The Jump: Is jealousy a useful emotion?

Three friends - Babs, Els and Marcel - jump out of a plane together. They are regular sky divers and as they approach the ground they activate their parachutes. Els' parachute fails, as does her reserve parachute. She falls the remaining 1000m to her death. Was it a tragic accident or was it murder? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate their differing views on monogamy. They discuss the psychology of jealousy: what makes someone jealous and does it serve any purpos...

Feb 10, 202232 min

53. Wiretapped: Can you hear colour?

When Clifford brokers a small drug deal he doesn’t know that the police are listening in. Clifford is arrested and when the case goes to trial, the recording of the deal is not allowed into evidence by the judge. But the testimony of the police officer is. This becomes the focal point of a courtroom drama that makes it all the way to the Supreme Court of Kentucky. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by our scientific advisor from the Open University, Dr Lara F...

Feb 03, 202233 min

52. Uncivilised Cruelty: Should rough sex be illegal?

Studies show that nearly half the UK population have experimented with bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism (BDSM). It is surprisingly common, so why did a group of men practicing BDSM end up in prison? Should we police what people do in the bedroom? On this episode of bad people Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the “rough sex” defence. Is it an opportunity to get away with murder or a necessary part of the legal framework? This episode contains audio from BBC Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour and t...

Jan 27, 202233 min

51. Fen-Phen Scandal: What would you risk to be thin?

Mary Linnen, a woman in her late 20s, had just gotten engaged and she wanted to lose some weight for the wedding. Her doctor prescribed a combination of drugs called Fen-Phen. And it worked instantly. She lost weight but then she also started to lose her breath a lot. Other agonising symptoms soon followed including swelling of legs and stomach. Mary becomes one of the first Fen-Phen victims of which there are thousands. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the extreme lengths and risks that pe...

Jan 20, 202241 min

50. Death Truck: What motivates people smugglers?

On the 27th of August 2015, a chicken truck is abandoned in Austria when smugglers realise the worst has happened. The tragedy shook Europe and lead to changes in immigration policy. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the difference between human trafficking and people smuggling, the risk-reward ratio for the criminal networks involved, their estimated financial turnover, and why many people smugglers are both victims and perpetrators. The episode also dissects ...

Jan 13, 202229 min

49. Black Pill: Are incels dangerous?

23rd April 2018 was the date selected by John Doe as the day he would kill as many residents of Toronto as possible. Witnesses describe seeing a white van mount the pavement on busy Yonge Street and run down pedestrians. Ten people sadly lost their lives. John Doe drew inspiration from the misogynistic online “incel” movement: groups of men who blame their lack of sexual activity on women and resent sexually “succesful” men. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen d...

Jan 06, 202239 min

48. Family Reunion: Research opportunity or ethical nightmare?

When Robert Shafran arrives for his first day of college he is overwhelmed by the friendliness and familiarity of the other students. Dazed and confused, he soon discovers that he is identical to another boy who just left the college. Both are adopted. Robert and his brother, Eddy, are thrilled to find each other and it doesn’t take long before – in an unbelievable twist – a third identical brother comes forward. Their feel-good story brings fame and huge media interests. But the story of long-l...

Nov 25, 202142 min

47. Bad Influencer: Can you spot pseudo-scientific health claims?

In 2009, Belle Gibson shared on her blog that she was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and had only four months to live. She then began documenting her journey of healing via clean eating. When Instagram launched a year later, she quickly amassed a following of 200,000 people, becoming one of the very first wellness influencers. But was she just taking advantage of people's wishful thinking? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how “wellness” has been conceptu...

Nov 18, 202137 min

46. Tiny Shoes: Can we heal injustices against Indigenous peoples?

Earlier this year, hundreds of unmarked graves were discovered at Canadian residential schools. What is the truth behind what really happened at these schools? On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how trauma can be passed from generation to generation and what can be done to heal the wounds caused by such poor treatment of Indigenous Canadians. They debate whether or not intergenerational trauma should be taken into account in sentencing decisions. In Canada, sentencing j...

Nov 11, 202135 min

45. Call Centre Crooks: How do you catch a scammer?

When 80-year old Kathleen is called up by a nice man from her computer company she does not suspect foul play. And when he tells her that she is owed a refund, she follows his instructions. Scams costs victims millions every year and the problem is only growing. “Scam-baiter” Jim Browning has had enough of scam-calls and has decided to use their own tricks against them. It is illegal and dangerous work. What Jim discovers is chilling. Scams are a huge industry that involves large call centres an...

Nov 04, 202141 min

44. Operation Island: What do we know about male victims of rape?

The UK’s most prolific rapist only targeted men, but the case is largely unknown. He would wait outside clubs in Manchester and offer men who looked vulnerable a place to charge their phone or call a taxi. Then he would slip the men a drug and rape them while they were unconscious, meaning that the majority of his victims had no idea what had happened to them until they were contacted by the police. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate whether or not the poli...

Oct 28, 202135 min

43. Le Fake: Are con artists pathological liars?

When a young man claiming to be an heir to the Rockefeller estate turns up in a silver Ferrari in The Hamptons in the US, the rich and the famous invite him into their lives. Many are dazzled by his expensive lifestyle so when he offers extraordinary returns on investments, the money pours in. But Christophe is not a Rockefeller and he has no intention of investing the money. He pockets it and goes on the run from the FBI. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen track ...

Oct 21, 202137 min
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