156: Plausible Reliability, with Orly Noy

[SPEAKER_02]: Mosh, oh my bitch, you're written up below. [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't bet we'd deter it when they'd go. [SPEAKER_02]: And ways you as he drives anti-hider gold is really salad, and easy-steads and yuffins or untrolls. [SPEAKER_02]: Michael chips is us. [SPEAKER_02]: I can't resist. [SPEAKER_02]: Michael's out with us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, everybody, and welcome to Bad Hesbarra!

[SPEAKER_08]: World's most moral podcast, comma V. That's right. [SPEAKER_08]: Find out in the Dewey decimal system, y'all. [SPEAKER_06]: My name is Matt Lieber, be your most moral co-host for this podcast. [SPEAKER_08]: Daniel Mate, other one. [SPEAKER_06]: Hello. [SPEAKER_06]: Both of us together equal one most moral super being out here, doing morality on ironically.

[SPEAKER_06]: Shout out to producer Adam Levin, also being very moral on the lower thirds, subscribe to us on YouTube and on the podcast apps, please subscribe to our Patreon. [SPEAKER_06]: If you want to get a bonus episode every week, a double dose of Daniel and Matt, then you can go to patreon.com. [SPEAKER_08]: And all our amazing guests. [SPEAKER_06]: And so many amazing guests. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's the thing. [SPEAKER_06]: It's not just more of us.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's more of people that we know and like who we put on the podcast and talk about stuff where [SPEAKER_08]: Last week, it was Morgan Bassicus. [SPEAKER_08]: If you want to see a hilarious clip from that episode, go to our YouTube. [SPEAKER_06]: That's right. [SPEAKER_06]: Are YouTube sometimes has clips of the stuff that maybe, you know, you a little too cheap to pay for. [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying holistically your cheap.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm saying in this case, you're a little free taste. [SPEAKER_08]: You're speaking of paying for things. [SPEAKER_08]: Congratulations to your LA Dodgers for buying the world series. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, genuinely, no genuinely. [SPEAKER_08]: It was a one, it was an incredible, it wasn't a game seven victory. [SPEAKER_08]: Heartbreaking for our Blue Jays, but Boyle Boy, you guys pulled it out and the Jays left themselves open to that comeback. [SPEAKER_06]: I know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I truly was shocked by it. [SPEAKER_06]: It was what, what a comeback. [SPEAKER_06]: I couldn't believe it. [SPEAKER_06]: I can't believe that this went seven games.

[SPEAKER_06]: There were so many different opportunities for the Jays to win the world series and the fact that they [SPEAKER_06]: got that close and didn't, I felt a little bad about, but at the same time when it comes to the money stuff, it's like, I feel like, you know, God wanted us to have that money, to have the roster in payroll that we had. [SPEAKER_08]: If he didn't, then he wouldn't have so much Israeli involvement investment in your team or your team.

[SPEAKER_08]: Is there a reason they called them the Tel Aviv Dodgers? [SPEAKER_06]: They, there's, I, I have no comment. [SPEAKER_06]: The point is is that the Dodgers are a wonderful franchise, wonderful organization originally from Brooklyn. [SPEAKER_08]: You're welcome for the information. [SPEAKER_06]: That's true. [SPEAKER_06]: And then they of course did Aliya to Los Angeles where they would always spiritually been from. [SPEAKER_08]: Moving on up to the West side.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's right. [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: They play on one of LA's best ice staging grounds. [SPEAKER_06]: True, true, true, true, true. [SPEAKER_06]: You know, in a way, Dr. Stadium was the first ice. [SPEAKER_06]: They went in and, you know, kind of just, you know, got rid of all the native population that lived there and put a stadium on it.

[SPEAKER_06]: The point is is we're all very proud of our Dodgers here in Los Angeles and sorry to the city of Toronto, but you'll always have [SPEAKER_06]: Um, that one guy who did that interview a few years, like 12 years ago, who was talking about Waterloo and all the vampires there. [SPEAKER_06]: Do you ever see that? [SPEAKER_06]: I never did. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's one of the greatest street interviews I've ever seen. [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, hey, I want to you know me.

[SPEAKER_06]: D. D. D. Heroes. [SPEAKER_06]: He's going. [SPEAKER_06]: It's like he's just yelling at this person who just asked what what his name was. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you have to watch it. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, best. [SPEAKER_06]: Anyways, today's sponsor is Gaza Greatmines. [SPEAKER_06]: Gaza Greatmines provides safe tent classrooms and quality. [SPEAKER_06]: education to Gaza's children affected by war.

[SPEAKER_06]: The charity works against the odds and logistical challenges to bring hope and smiles back to children's faces. [SPEAKER_06]: If you would like to support them in their efforts, go to GazaGreatMinds.org slash donate. [SPEAKER_06]: There is a link in the description. [SPEAKER_06]: So click that link, donate some money. [SPEAKER_06]: They need it more than we do and probably more than [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you do. [SPEAKER_06]: I imagine. [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, do that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Please, guys, great minds.org. [SPEAKER_06]: I donate Daniel. [SPEAKER_06]: What's the spin? [SPEAKER_08]: I've got this brand new record by my favorite guitar player in the world, Vernon Reed of Living Color. [SPEAKER_08]: The album is called Houdu telemetry. [SPEAKER_08]: It came out last month and it's beautiful and brilliant. [SPEAKER_06]: And Houdu telemetry isn't a good Houdu telemetry is the greatest album name I've heard in here.

[SPEAKER_08]: He's got all of his album names are great. [SPEAKER_08]: Mistaken identity, other true self, known, unknown, it's very existential.

[SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, I picked some other great guitar albums in honor that Eric Johnson, [SPEAKER_06]: uh... what is it called uh... via music on with the great song cliffs of dover on it uh... great i know the cliffs of dover from a December song this one's better i promise you i don't know about that i'll see you're on the cliffs of dover so high you can't see over you see this is my generation of music [SPEAKER_08]: I understand. [SPEAKER_06]: You know?

[SPEAKER_08]: I don't even want to think about the Decemberist unless it's December, so save it for enough. [SPEAKER_08]: Grant Green, jazz guitarist that Vernon Reid put me on to, with his cover of I want to hold your hand by the Beatles and a bunch of other great covers, Tony Rice, an amazing flat picking bluegrass guitar player.

[SPEAKER_08]: My only qualm with this LP is that the CD version has his cover of The Rec of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Life, but it's not on the record for some reason, but it's still wonderful music. [SPEAKER_08]: Pat Mithini, Jazz Great, Bright Size Life, Classic. [SPEAKER_08]: I recently saw Eric Clapton in concert, Nico Pellid, held a guy's a benefit private concert. [SPEAKER_08]: And I got to see Eric Clapton with like a thousand other people.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe if your shit happens in New York, if that's the front fair, when will you learn? [SPEAKER_08]: And so I've got Derek and the dominoes here, which also has doing almond on it with Laila on it. [SPEAKER_08]: Laila and other love songs. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, a beautiful album actually and clapped and I really slept on him not with him but on him for too many years because Laila You know was boring and tears in heaven.

[SPEAKER_08]: I always scoffed at but when he played it recently at the concert I actually cried real tears. [SPEAKER_06]: It's really good. [SPEAKER_06]: I like that song. [SPEAKER_06]: He does Farker change. [SPEAKER_08]: No change the world is great.

[SPEAKER_08]: My father's eyes is great [SPEAKER_08]: That's like it's fantastic and his guitar is just a god and I never it was one of the best consequences of my life and finally this I've featured it before but at the time it was not available on Spotify and it just has been re-released both on LP and on streaming so I want to encourage our [SPEAKER_08]: playlist keeper to put this one on finally Buckingham, Nick's Lindsey Buckingham, one of the most absolutely underrated guitarists.

[SPEAKER_08]: This is from just before they joined Fleetwood Mac. [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, this was the record that Mick Fleetwood heard and had him invite them to join the band. [SPEAKER_08]: So it's a beautiful record by the two of them. [SPEAKER_08]: Back when they were young and Cherubic and boning each other. [SPEAKER_06]: Back when they were in love. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but they wrote some [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, I would say the bulk of their best work is about them breaking up.

[SPEAKER_08]: So something else to see them on stage together, singing songs about each other and looking at each other and singing harmonies on each other's breakup songs? [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_06]: It's wild. [SPEAKER_06]: I've never seen a band with so much sexual tension even in their like 70s. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, she was like, they're old, but I just want to see them get together. [SPEAKER_06]: It's the will they won't they have rock and roll history?

[SPEAKER_06]: And the answer is won't they? [SPEAKER_06]: They won't. [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so that's what's spinning, uh, those are all some wonderful, wonderful records before we go on. [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to check in because with today's episode, we're going to be talking about Israeli politics and, uh, you know, we're going to be talking about stories that have been breaking, you know, the last year now, but, uh, uh, stuff that is, uh,

[SPEAKER_06]: breaking into the main stream here in the United States were finally hearing about what's going on with that it's breaking some brains to it's breaking a lot of brains so but before we get there I did want to quickly just check in with the good old U.S. and day what's going on at the White House and I just want to play this video from the

[SPEAKER_06]: from the press core over at the White House and just a very normal, you know, question and answer session that happened very recently. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, looking at these renderings and it kind of got me thinking. [SPEAKER_03]: He's likely going to go down as the greatest builder of this era. [SPEAKER_03]: And you've been in a lot of those meetings with him. [SPEAKER_02]: It is not. [SPEAKER_08]: Pause.

[SPEAKER_08]: When did Muttel come Zoil the Taylor become a white house press, press guy. [SPEAKER_06]: Just... You know the things that you do to impress Tabia, my god. [SPEAKER_06]: The stringer Muttel comes Zoil. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, just asking questions. [SPEAKER_06]: You know it's so funny when we... [SPEAKER_08]: For those who aren't watching, but are rather just listening, we have a, first time I've ever actually seen, have you seen this, have you heard of this?

[SPEAKER_08]: There's an Orthodox Jew, apparently, with full on pace. [SPEAKER_08]: Yep. [SPEAKER_08]: It's not wearing a top hat, but he's wearing a sort of Newspork cap. [SPEAKER_08]: You're kind of a newsboy cap. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's the newsboy. [SPEAKER_08]: It's the orthodox from newsboy cap. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and he is at the, you know, the press pool at the White House.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's the same pool that, you know, luminaries like Helen Thomas used to be at, or she was fired for simply suggesting that Palestinians were humans. [SPEAKER_06]: And Sam Roussani. [SPEAKER_06]: I could just go home, and yeah, and so it's funny when this video started, you're just like, okay, just because there's an orthodox Jewish person asking a question at the White House, you know, press pool, like anyone can be a journalist.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's okay, there's not a problem, of course. [SPEAKER_06]: So we all know Trump is going to go down as a greatest builder of our generation of all time But I just have some questions about rebuilding the third temple What it has the subject of we building the holy temple in Jerusalem come up it has not now [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I'm sorry, go ahead. [SPEAKER_08]: I just, I, you know, listen, the point you say, it has not, I'm sorry, you. [SPEAKER_08]: I am sorry.

[SPEAKER_08]: I think his name is Joe, but it's kind of like due to me. [SPEAKER_06]: Joe, I'm at Joe. [SPEAKER_06]: I love it. [SPEAKER_06]: I love it because you just, you never know what you're gonna get in the White House press corps and man. [SPEAKER_06]: So things are going good here in the United States, but now we are going overseas. [SPEAKER_06]: This episode, we ourselves are making Aliyah.

[SPEAKER_06]: uh by talking uh about Israel for uh uh you know local politics for a good portion of this episode and what better person to do it with then our next guest uh she is the uh chair of board for Beth Selam the Israeli Human Rights Organization [SPEAKER_06]: A journalist, the editor at Local Call, which is at 972 magazine, also translates farcee literature into Hebrew, ladies and gentlemen, and everyone else welcome for some on the podcast, or Lee Noi.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey. [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, guys. [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much for having me. [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, hello, I'm Ruchimabaim. [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome. [SPEAKER_09]: I was in suspense for a minute to hear what her answer was going to be, whether or not they actually do talk maybe about, you know, rebuilding the third tempo that's so. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I know, me too. [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, oh boy, oh boy, what if the say answer is, uh, oh yeah, oh we're doing it. [SPEAKER_08]: We're on.

[SPEAKER_08]: I feel like if they actually did, though, I think, [SPEAKER_08]: the religious temple, the Trump third temple, I think they'd be disappointed because he just knocked down half of it and put up a giant casino. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's true. [SPEAKER_09]: On the other hand, I actually do leaving Jerusalem and that could have done wonders for the prices of, you know, property in Jerusalem, so maybe, you know, there's something to consider there.

[SPEAKER_06]: something to consider, I mean, listen, if there's one thing that Trump name a synonymous with, it's helping all of the other real estate around it do well, yes, it is an incredible moment at the White House press court. [SPEAKER_06]: So, Orly, [SPEAKER_06]: you are a journalist, you are the editor at local call, which is affiliated with 972 magazine, and you are a translator of far sea literature into Hebrew, which you described before the pod is your great passion.

[SPEAKER_06]: Can I just ask you a little bit about that for a moment? [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of literature do you translate? [SPEAKER_06]: What is it that you do?

[SPEAKER_09]: uh... pros and poetry uh... yeah it's it is really my greatest passion uh... i was born in Iran we immigrated to his relative with the you know the the the Islamic revolution i was nine at a time but uh... i grew up in a very very rainy and has house also my parents always made sure that you know i would read books uh... [SPEAKER_09]: and that would be listening to forcing music and whatnot. [SPEAKER_08]: Sure. [SPEAKER_08]: Can I ask a question just about that?

[SPEAKER_08]: Like sort of a side question. [SPEAKER_08]: So when I think about the earlier waves of immigration or importation of Mizrahi Jews from all over the Arab world and Africa, it was a concerted effort by the Zionist movement and the state of Israel to try and pad the numbers demographically, right?

[SPEAKER_08]: And then in conjunction with that, there was a deliberate effort made to have these people replace their Arab and Arab-speaking identities with and is really Hebrew-speaking one. [SPEAKER_08]: In terms of the outflux of Iranian Jews to Israel during the Islamic Revolution, which was in the 70s, right, the late 70s, [SPEAKER_09]: And a 17th night, yeah, the very 70s, yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[SPEAKER_08]: Was there anything as like how involved was the Israeli government or the history of truth in that operation where they were working behind the scenes or was it just sort of a surprising outcome that just resulted in those immigration? [SPEAKER_08]: And then what was the treatment of Farsi speaking Jews like when you arrived?

[SPEAKER_09]: So actually I think that the majority of the Iranian Jewish community didn't immigrate to Israel, but rather to the states, to Iran, to be more accurate. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, Iran, to the United States, that's right. [SPEAKER_09]: So, I don't think that at this time, the Sakhnot was very involved and later on, you know, with the Rani Rock war, when the borders of Iran actually closed down. [SPEAKER_09]: they couldn't have done anything to any house.

[SPEAKER_09]: So like my grandparents, they escaped on donkeys and horses to Pakistan, Afghanistan. [SPEAKER_09]: And so I don't think that the Sakhnot was that involved. [SPEAKER_08]: Right, I'm responsible for that. [SPEAKER_08]: That is the judge, it's the Sakhnot.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_09]: Regarding the, you know, how we were treated here, it wasn't as, [SPEAKER_09]: as hostile or as violent as the, you know, stripping the arrogues of their identity because we weren't Arabs and anything that, you know, for his rate, but it made a huge difference because they didn't want to be confused with the wrong kind of Arabs, you know, so you had to make, you know, and if you come from an Arab, you know, if Arabic is your language and it,

[SPEAKER_09]: These are your traditions and your history and your culture and then the state will make you force you to differentiate yourself from the bad kind of arrow. [SPEAKER_09]: That was in the case with a rainy and immigration. [SPEAKER_09]: We weren't that many of us any house, so they didn't bother with them. [SPEAKER_09]: We were just receiving you with the same arrogance and ignorance. [SPEAKER_09]: that is really looks, you know, from who is not more.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you know. [SPEAKER_08]: Your average immigration officer had been going in airport Greece, you know, a non-Jewish tourist. [SPEAKER_09]: Right. [SPEAKER_09]: Because, you know, I heard Barack, I think, very accurately described Israel as a villa in the jungle, and I would add a white villa in the jungle.

[SPEAKER_09]: In these terms, you know, according to these terms, we came nonetheless from the jungle, even though we weren't Arabs, so we were, you know, treated the same I was asked [SPEAKER_09]: you know, Tehran at the time was so much more advanced and developed at anything that existed in Israel.

[SPEAKER_09]: And yet I was asked not by kids, but actually by teachers, if I had ever seen an elevator, if we were driving things like that, which was, and I was just gonna, you know, the reason I started translating is because I was Googling, I don't remember why I Googled in Hebrew, [SPEAKER_09]: for sea literature, and then Hebrew Google answered back, do you mean Russian literature?

[SPEAKER_09]: And I thought it sounds like you are searching for foreign countries we've heard of and I thought when Google it I mean it doesn't have a sense of humor. [SPEAKER_09]: He's not kidding me. [SPEAKER_09]: You just really genuinely doesn't know the concept of policy literature which you know it's only there's [SPEAKER_09]: So I started translating them.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the first thing you did was translate a elevator instruction manual in the 1920s you're like just just so you know we have had elevators for a bit [SPEAKER_09]: I swear we could have spent the next hour and have just talking about how ridiculously this ignorance was and sad and yeah it was just I for example I went to a Jewish school in Iran.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I learned Hebrew and English and Farsi from Kindergarten, while in Israel they [SPEAKER_09]: In huge advanced, you know, I was hugely advanced compared to them, but they put me in the, you know, lower grades in all the, all these subjects, mathematics in this just assuming that because I come from Iran, then, you know, maybe she's a little slower, you know, you see, it's so yeah, well, about the relationship between.

[SPEAKER_08]: Iran and Israel now and Jews and, you know, Persian people, as a lot to say, my brothers outlet, the Grey Zone just put out a documentary about Iran's Jews like now, the existing Jewish community that which seems relatively robust, but one of the things we have covered with guests like Samira Moiden, who lives in Toronto, but is a Iranian descent.

[SPEAKER_08]: or origin, I think, maybe she's Canadian born anyway, is the Iranian faction of the hisbari industry, people like Elika Laban, and other accounts who, you know, weaponize their Persian identity as, you know, trying to make the case to regime change for regime change. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. [SPEAKER_08]: How do you view that and what's your positionality been with regard to Iran's relationship to the West and its proxy Israel?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, first, I mean, there is a misconception that doesn't matter how many times we repeat it. [SPEAKER_09]: People just refuse to understand that there is a difference between being anti-Semite and anti-Zionist and the Iranian regime. [SPEAKER_09]: which is, of course, very aggressively anti-Zionist and anti-Israel is actually very excessive to the Jewish community. [SPEAKER_09]: I still have first cousins living there.

[SPEAKER_09]: They haven't [SPEAKER_09]: representative in the Iranian Parliament, and so on. [SPEAKER_09]: Now, regarding the Iranian Israelis that use their identity to, you know, you want to be an Israeli patriarchal find that's, you know, that's, you need to deal with that, your, your consciousness, your morality. [SPEAKER_09]: But to actually, I mean, did there is a question, what kind of change do you want? [SPEAKER_09]: I also want to see change in Iran.

[SPEAKER_09]: I do want to see a regime, I want to see a free Iran, I want to see a liberated Iranian people. [SPEAKER_09]: But the change that these people, you know, try to promote is the change that the Israeli regime wants to see in Iran, which is a very different thing from a liberated, really Iran, it's going back to the time that Iran was subjected.

[SPEAKER_09]: to Western desires is going back to 1953 with the overgrown, the British and American overgrown of the really biggest tragedy of Iran's modern history. [SPEAKER_09]: the way the over through Mossad there, which was Iran's democratic hope and maybe everything would have been different, had it not been for this coup arranged by the West. [SPEAKER_08]: It's surprising since he had Mossad in his name.

[SPEAKER_09]: And speaking about Mossad, they want to go back to the time that the Israeli Mossad built for the Shah for the link to the Savak, the very notorious secret police which tortured

[SPEAKER_09]: countless Iranian political opposition, and it's continuing the same mechanism is oppressing and torturing today political opposition, so this is the reason they want to take us back to, and this is, I mean, it's not just being not anti-patriotic as Iranian, it's just being shitty people, just as human beings, and

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'll early apparently you haven't heard of the new new definition of anti-Semitism, which is when you would rather be oppressed by the people currently oppressing you than by Jews who would like to come and oppress you on behalf of the West. [SPEAKER_08]: That's right. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that's really, and I want to be serious for a moment because speaking about definition of anti-Semitism, more and more I'm being convinced.

[SPEAKER_09]: that giving Israel as a Jewish state exemption from norms of humanity is the most frightening demonstration of anti-Semitism in our time to say that as a Jewish collective, the human norms do not apply to you, I think this is horrifying. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, this is, I mean, for me, that has been my, you know, number one realization when it comes to anti-Semitism and the actual perpetrators and, you know, the promoters of anti-Semitism.

[SPEAKER_06]: To me, there's no bigger anti-Semitic enterprise than the Israeli embodiments or a [SPEAKER_06]: representing all Jews of the world. [SPEAKER_06]: And so, therefore, everything we do is you know, both justified and a representation of who we are. [SPEAKER_08]: And we're doing so because we hate everything about Jewish history that doesn't involve domination and dominion. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_08]: You're right. [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_08]: Evidence gets tracked about ghetto Jews and it's straight out of Dostomer. [SPEAKER_09]: completely and just erasing 2,000 years of creation of the thought and of contribution. [SPEAKER_09]: We contribution it's yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: And you know, we've been reading a lot of your work regarding internal Israel politics and also just, you know, the externalities of what the world views us as or, you know, views the Jewish state as.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to talk a little bit about some of these articles. [SPEAKER_06]: This is something that you, you know, as people who will occasionally read, you know, stuff from, how are its, you know, newspaper and whatnot, 972 magazine, you know, occasionally has something like this, something you wrote the September this year, Israel is waiting a Holocaust in Gaza. [SPEAKER_06]: The notification is our only remedy. [SPEAKER_06]: uh, first of all, great headline.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, really straight to the point. [SPEAKER_06]: It was, uh, you know, as soon as I saw it, I was like, all right, here we go. [SPEAKER_06]: Let's do this. [SPEAKER_06]: Can you, um, can you explain a little bit about what you mean by, um, de-de-notification, um, just to edifier listeners?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think, I mean, I-I-I-I-I [SPEAKER_09]: The biggest question that I am preoccupied with for a long time now is, how did we as a Jewish, the Jewish is really society reached that point of committing a genocide but not as a [SPEAKER_09]: The Israeli Jewish Society celebrated the genocide that was happening in Gaza. [SPEAKER_09]: And the other question that I'm thinking about a lot is where to be go from here.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, what is our horizon for rehabilitation, for returning to humanity, to the [SPEAKER_09]: Because, and it's going to be a very long process because societies do not just turn genocide or even by the most horrifying trigger like October 7th. [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't if you don't have the preconditions. [SPEAKER_09]: You do not become a general, and also suicidal, but a general, a community.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think that, you know, part of this process or the beginning of the process of rehabilitation is going to have to be asking ourselves, what happened to us? [SPEAKER_09]: How did it be?

[SPEAKER_09]: get to the point of becoming a genocide of society, what, and, you know, asking really genuinely asking ourselves, being courageously asking ourselves this question, inevitably [SPEAKER_09]: will mean to retrace our steps back all the way to the Nakba because there hasn't been a single day in a single month in a single year since 1948 that didn't lead us to the point to the horrifying catastrophe that we brought. [SPEAKER_09]: on our neighbors, also on ourselves.

[SPEAKER_09]: But we committed the genocide. [SPEAKER_09]: This is not something to be taken like that. [SPEAKER_09]: And we need to be, you know, accountable for that and really for our own sake, for our own sake, to ask what happened to us?

[SPEAKER_08]: Well, and you also suggest strongly or even come out and say that, [SPEAKER_08]: The entire project of Zionism is going to have to crumble, because that reckoning cannot take place on Zionism, because Zionism necessitated the unfinished genocide of 1948, which and the delayed culmination of it in Gaza. [SPEAKER_08]: But let me ask you this, that accountability, you said that societies don't become genocidal overnight.

[SPEAKER_08]: I would argue that societal don't unbecome genocidal overnight and they only start to unbecome at under certain conditions and that's what I'm curious about. [SPEAKER_08]: What do you think the minimal conditions are before Jewish Israeli society as a whole, whether it is still under the rubric of an Israel, [SPEAKER_08]: would even consent to such a process. [SPEAKER_08]: The Nazis had to be defeated outright, smashed, destroyed.

[SPEAKER_08]: That country absolutely brought too heal because it was a lunatic state. [SPEAKER_08]: And Israel has certainly reached that descriptor. [SPEAKER_08]: So I love looking ahead to the day when Israeli Jews will reckon with that. [SPEAKER_08]: But what needs to happen first? [SPEAKER_09]: So, I absolutely agree with you and I think that the fit in a way is a pre-condition. [SPEAKER_09]: I actually think that, you know, the fit can really save us from ourselves.

[SPEAKER_09]: And this also connects to my most more recent article about, you know, why do they keep boycotting as well because we commit a genocide. [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that it's actually really important that boycotting Israel will not end. [SPEAKER_09]: with this genocide, because again, it's not something that we've done and now we are going back to the way we were before. [SPEAKER_06]: So you know, the genocide is ongoing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And not just ongoing in terms of like this ceasefire is obviously, fire is not ceasing. [SPEAKER_06]: But ongoing in terms of since 48, the genocide is ongoing. [SPEAKER_06]: outside of being mid-genocide since 48. [SPEAKER_06]: And so, you know, it is, I love the article, why do they keep boycotting us?

[SPEAKER_06]: Because it's, you know, it's written with that sort of, you know, I assume a figure that you see a lot more than we do here in the United States of people who, [SPEAKER_06]: who don't understand why the status quo is a bad thing even if the previous iteration of it was the active bombing, or at least the official, I don't know what you call this new round of bombing.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is the unofficial bombing and murder of gozons, whereas before it was okay [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, it's like people really after every cycle of Israel opening the gates of hell and gansa. [SPEAKER_09]: There was this notion that, okay, we are going back to the status quo. [SPEAKER_09]: What's the status quo for the dozens? [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know how for how many years Israel has been counting the amount of calories that each dozen is allowed to consume daily?

[SPEAKER_09]: It's long before October 7th. [SPEAKER_09]: For how many longs it's been shooting at Fisherman? [SPEAKER_09]: going out to fish on the shores of Gatsen, and he's long before, obviously. [SPEAKER_09]: So you know, satisfying and going back to normal meant something completely different for Gatsen for two decades. [SPEAKER_08]: Right, which leads directly to October 7th, and another component of it.

[SPEAKER_08]: is rhetorically as railways have just gotten used to speaking about Palestinians and the Palestinians of Gaza, especially as less than human. [SPEAKER_08]: When Israel massacres, 2,000, 4,000 Palestinians in the matter of weeks or months, it's called mowing the lawn. [SPEAKER_08]: again, speaking of denatification, right? [SPEAKER_08]: You'd have to denatify the language.

[SPEAKER_08]: You'd actually have to reeducate people that, no, those are human beings and you are sick in the head. [SPEAKER_08]: You've been conditioned to be a toxic narcissist and just like in interpersonal relationships. [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of psychologists [SPEAKER_08]: despair of the possibility of ever rehabilitating a narcissist. [SPEAKER_08]: And that's an individual person. [SPEAKER_08]: You know, and you really have to show them the ruinous consequences of their behavior.

[SPEAKER_08]: How that happens on the national scale kind of boggling boggles in my mind. [SPEAKER_09]: And speaking of language, you know, it trickles down even to the most liberal spheres. [SPEAKER_09]: Take our habits, for example. [SPEAKER_09]: Which I think I have great respect and admiration. [SPEAKER_09]: I think that all in all their great colleagues and very good journalism, and an important one in the Israeli media landscape.

[SPEAKER_09]: But even in our heads, you can find a headline [SPEAKER_09]: who shot at soldiers in the Occupy territories now, the international law allows actually. [SPEAKER_09]: It allows occupying people to resist with arms against [SPEAKER_09]: military occupying forces in the occupied territory. [SPEAKER_09]: That's not to, I mean, according to the international law, you don't need to be like a radical lift to, this is a code.

[SPEAKER_09]: But still, you see that that language, you know, trickling down even to the most liberal spheres. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, especially that type of language describing, you know, describing as a terrorist someone who's shooting at an Israeli soldier, like at what point do you, you know, laugh, like, at what point are you just admitting that this is not a war? [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's like, okay, so then there's no war if you're describing literally every Arab.

[SPEAKER_08]: uh... you know in opposition to this uh... you know army as uh... being a terrorist you know when they're protesting the the sheep murdering uh... plundering marauding terrorists of the settlers and onto which like it's easy for us to forget but international law around [SPEAKER_08]: like conquest in war and subsequent occupations is explicitly predicated on the notion that these occupations are supposed to end. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, it's supposed to end quickly.

[SPEAKER_08]: And in the meantime, there are certain protocols and ways that the occupies are supposed to treat the occupied on the way to deoccupying. [SPEAKER_08]: This has been going on now for close to 60 years. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I really urge our listeners to read Nora, I can't just just us for some. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, how the international law, I mean, people you know, sometimes sent to say is, well, just ignores international law. [SPEAKER_09]: This is not accurate.

[SPEAKER_09]: Israel is actually manipulating the international law to its benefit in the places, you know, in the cracks where it can. [SPEAKER_09]: So it doesn't. [SPEAKER_09]: all together complete, but it actually used international law as a tool to entrench the illegal occupation, ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territory. [SPEAKER_08]: And when it can't manipulate it, it outright.

[SPEAKER_08]: Bribes and black males, Normus Finklestein's upcoming book is called Gaza's Grave Diggers, an inquest into or an inquiry into corruption and high places, you know, talking about these judges like Saboutin Day and others, who just countered everything that's written in the law, always ruling favor of Israel and they have so many mechanisms of ensuring that they can continue to do what they do, which again,

[SPEAKER_08]: brings up the question of what's it going to take to get to a place where the Israeli public has no option, but to look themselves in a very unflattering mirror. [SPEAKER_08]: And what you're using is that boycotting is not an act of hate or aggression. [SPEAKER_08]: It's actually an act of compassion. [SPEAKER_09]: No, absolutely. [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, really it's, um, I think it's an act of patriotism to support the BDS movement as is rarely, right now.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think, you know, if I need, if I have to force myself to be a little bit optimistic, I would say that the fact that all the masks have, I mean, look at Israel, look at [SPEAKER_09]: What's cooking on in this planet today? [SPEAKER_09]: It's not a sub. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's, and though there is everything is collapsing from within.

[SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes there is still an external structure that's sort of not completed, but sort of holding it together, but from everything is completely rotten. [SPEAKER_09]: everything is completely falling apart. [SPEAKER_09]: So if not for the sake of morality or for the sake of justice or whatever, just for the sake of what it is that you want to leave your grandchildren. [SPEAKER_09]: Project of supremacy, which is really not just genocide, but also suicidal in favor of something else.

[SPEAKER_08]: And subjectively for you, what's it like to be there right now? [SPEAKER_08]: You've been there much of your life, you know, your society was always [SPEAKER_08]: Not defying, if not completely not defied, you know, Yashabu, Libu, it's called it a jadeo, not this society a long time ago.

[SPEAKER_08]: But I imagine, and one of your recent pieces also talks about how everything's changed in the past two years, everything's changed, everything's become itself but much more so, in a sense. [SPEAKER_08]: What's it like for you walking around and existing in a society like this, knowing what you know and seeing what you see? [SPEAKER_09]: It's a really fine, difficult to find the words.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you know, being a radical left activist, you know, also what is considered to be radical in his red is just, you know, campaigning for justice, the inequality. [SPEAKER_09]: This is a radical notion. [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, there it is. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, well. [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to get pretty dinged for extremist hate speech. [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_06]: We've got a strike on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no. [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we are an activist with the ballad, which is a democratic Palestinian [SPEAKER_09]: party and they call for state for all its citizens. [SPEAKER_09]: I mean this is the basic for any liberal democracy, this is not something but in Israel, this is a radical notion.

[SPEAKER_09]: So being like an radical left, there was always an obvious sense of alienation from these really society, but still I feel felt obligated, I felt very much a part, you know, I [SPEAKER_09]: I got made me very mad, but as a part of this society, I felt obligated to be engaged in this conversation. [SPEAKER_09]: In the past two years, it's not an ination, it's just fear. [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm terrified by this society.

[SPEAKER_09]: stand in the balcony and I smoke and I look at the people and I say every one of them is supporting genocide, every one of them is either participating in the military in the military in the two years or their sons or their brothers or their [SPEAKER_09]: you know, it's my neighbor from the apartment downstairs and it's the grocery store guy that is sitting there with the universe everywhere. [SPEAKER_09]: It's everywhere.

[SPEAKER_09]: And also it penetrates the most intimate circles. [SPEAKER_09]: I lost [SPEAKER_09]: I caught ties with immediate family members because it was just so we couldn't, we couldn't handle this anymore with friends, with close friends, it's a very lonely place to be at here right now. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I can only imagine just it is, you know, that our own personal experience is really mine.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can't speak for Daniel, but the amount of alienation that I experienced early on at Throcktober 7th was immense and caused me to be so mad I made a podcast. [SPEAKER_06]: which is how you know I'm really mad and you know, but I have the privilege of being able to find a community of people, you know, not just physically but also online who also felt that sense of alienation.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I imagine, you know, for you and for, you know, the [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you still constantly feel that sense of alienation and especially based on what exactly Israeli society is currently freaking out about. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it just seems so divorced from reality that it's if an anti-Semite said this to me three years ago, this is what Israeli society is going to be arguing over.

[SPEAKER_06]: I, you know, I would have been like, well, there goes another crazy Nazi making up scenarios, and instead it just seems to be your daily reality there. [SPEAKER_09]: And they're doubling down on the crazy because, you know, it's, I think that, you know, the surface of the site has gotten to a point where it became so insane that looking in the mirror is no longer an option, so instead they're just doubling down on the crazy and on the hate [SPEAKER_09]: a genocidal mindset.

[SPEAKER_09]: So it's just getting worse and worse. [SPEAKER_09]: There will be a shift at some point. [SPEAKER_09]: I am very grateful for my Palestinian friend. [SPEAKER_09]: I should say that I find my sanity in those circles and really it's been like a lifesaver. [SPEAKER_09]: They have my Palestinian friends. [SPEAKER_09]: a life saver and end of my work environment which I'm very very fortunate to have it.

[SPEAKER_08]: Are your Palestinian friends mainly in 48 or in the West Bank or both in 48?

[SPEAKER_09]: In 48, in 48, the situation in the West Bank, or we can maybe, I don't know if you'll get to it, but it'd be, I mean, rightfully, all eyes have been on Gaza for the past two years, but while all eyes were on Gaza, [SPEAKER_09]: All hell broke loose in the West Bank, including the shooting of, for me, you know, it was the shooting of a brilliant, brave, amazing activist out there, the lean in the air.

[SPEAKER_09]: on camera for on 20 different cameras and he was murdered in front of 20 different cameras that shot it. [SPEAKER_09]: He was released the next day, 20 men from the village were taken in [SPEAKER_09]: into quest to be so.

[SPEAKER_08]: And in the past week or so, thanks to the brave work of friend of the podcast, Jasper Nathaniel, some of the craziness of settler violence has made a slight dent in Western media, you know, his video of the attack on this defenseless woman, [SPEAKER_08]: the ambush of him and his Palestinian colleagues during the all of heart. [SPEAKER_08]: The all of harvest is always a pretty good time to capture some egregious, in our guile evidence that we're dealing with with terrorists here.

[SPEAKER_08]: Matt, do we have that tweet from Ken Mazig? [SPEAKER_05]: We do. [SPEAKER_05]: We do. [SPEAKER_08]: He's duly chastened by or at least alarmed by the PR disaster that is this. [SPEAKER_06]: That's right. [SPEAKER_06]: Wave the attacks. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, so I mean, the fact that [SPEAKER_06]: That's how you know something is broken into at least Western media is when Hen Mesee who is the the face of Israel and Israeli compassion for the West.

[SPEAKER_08]: He writes our records for the Hollywood Reporter. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: Please select that. [SPEAKER_08]: Justly explaining to people how as a queer brown Israeli Jew he laments the antisemitism on the left and in Hollywood and on this. [SPEAKER_06]: This whole thing is like being Deborah Messing's best friend, she was honest at common in the 90s, doesn't matter. [SPEAKER_09]: And so yeah, I'm old enough to know who she is. [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, that's fine. [SPEAKER_06]: So Deborah Messing's best friend and friend of the pod. [SPEAKER_08]: Handmaid has the will in grace. [SPEAKER_06]: Try him of the will in grace. [SPEAKER_06]: If you will in grace, it is no. [SPEAKER_06]: It is no dream. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, the hand had this to say, yesterday, extremist Israelis in the West Bank slaughtered sheep on a Palestinian farm.

[SPEAKER_06]: Today, more extremists assaulted Palestinian all of harvesters forcing them to leave the area and scatter the olives they had picked. [SPEAKER_08]: What were Israeli extremists doing in the West Bank? [SPEAKER_08]: What are your place for them to be? [SPEAKER_08]: That's so strange.

[SPEAKER_08]: It's not as if they live there, foot there, [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, by the labor government in the 70s and every government since and part of the protected by the IDF no no of which of course Hen is a part of was a part of and arguably still part of I know it's hard to hear I know when I report these attacks those dedicated to misunderstanding Israelis as a whole will use it as ammo that's a [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we get up.

[SPEAKER_06]: We look for that ammunition by clicking West Bank on Twitter and just seeing it for ourselves. [SPEAKER_06]: We cannot ignore this violent sect in our society, the IDF. [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, but it's like I love the even if it's a minority. [SPEAKER_06]: If these Israeli settlers were not protected directly by the IDF, if, in fact, just for Nathaniel's video shows evidence of the fact that the IDF led him and other reporters and Palestinians into an ambush.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, we cannot ignore this violent sect in our society even if it's a minority. [SPEAKER_06]: If we turn a blind eye to these attacks, we let hate win. [SPEAKER_06]: What if it's a majority then? [SPEAKER_06]: If it's a majority, it's okay. [SPEAKER_06]: If there's one thing we've learned, that's democracy, that's Israeli democracy. [SPEAKER_08]: If the majority of Israeli Jews are genocidal, that's a triumph of participatory politics.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well then it's okay, then it's not bad. [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know what a good day in the olive harvest season looks like in the West Bank? [SPEAKER_09]: My daughter, you know, there are activists going to protect as a protective presence and helping Palestinians. [SPEAKER_09]: So she goes every day, do you know what a good day looks like?

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, so in a bad day, there are settlers would come and somewhere some would leave with broken limbs and it actually happens almost on daily basis. [SPEAKER_09]: But if you have a good day, then you get to harvest the privately owned land of the Palestinians for maybe two or three hours before the soldiers come and they show you an order that say this is a close military zone and kick you all out.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is a good day when they just come and drive [SPEAKER_08]: You know, this is the classic Zionist relationship to the land and agriculture making the desert boom. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and important unfit trees from Europe, which is really so stupid. [SPEAKER_08]: No fire hazard there, am I right? [SPEAKER_09]: But for so many years, the Zionism was such, such pride in drying out the whole lake.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, this is like one of the huge achievements. [SPEAKER_09]: It turns out that this is a huge, [SPEAKER_09]: catastrophy environmental catastrophy it was not meant to be dried out and it actually caused a huge environmental catastrophe but they you know I love that I did not know that but yes you know [SPEAKER_06]: big in the sort of sinused Israeli origin story as the idea of the literal draining of swamps.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, this was all, you know, bogs and, you know, unfit for harvesting and the draining of them was a huge part of the, like sort of, you know, origin story has barra. [SPEAKER_06]: I did not know that it also caused, you know, a monumental [SPEAKER_08]: God as a reputation is infallible, but then you look at swamps. [SPEAKER_08]: It was just a mistake. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_08]: And the superior race knows what to do with God's mistakes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Looking up, this guy, God, you forgot to clear this swamp. [SPEAKER_06]: It's okay. [SPEAKER_08]: Well, clean it up. [SPEAKER_08]: We'll drain it for you. [SPEAKER_09]: It's all right. [SPEAKER_09]: And those silly Palestinians for hundreds of years never thought. [SPEAKER_09]: to drain out those swamps that, so maybe they they were meant to be there. [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, so much for indigenous wisdom.

[SPEAKER_08]: But speaking of Zionist founding principles, plural, Han is very concerned about that and we get to that at the end of his tweet, which I highlighted out of incredulity. [SPEAKER_08]: I couldn't believe I was reading this. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, part of ending this terror is raising awareness and standing up for Israel's founding values of peace, freedom, and justice for all peoples. [SPEAKER_08]: As enshrined in Israel's constitution, oops, there is none.

[SPEAKER_06]: No more impunity. [SPEAKER_06]: I love the idea of just inventing founding principles by, I don't know, cribbing superman comics. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, he's probably thinking about a different state that actually has a constitution, it's not to Israel anyhow. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm not sure which constitution he read recently, but it definitely is not Israel's. [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, it's always amazing to see where has Boris stradeline.

[SPEAKER_08]: And like at what level of shame and a program they will start to speak up and always because it's a bad look. [SPEAKER_06]: It's always because, oh no, Americans or the West is talking about it. [SPEAKER_06]: That's always it. [SPEAKER_06]: They draw the line at, oh, this is bad PR. [SPEAKER_09]: the first thing they said when the war was over is oh shit now they are going to have to allow journalists to into Gaza and this is going to be very, very bad for Israeli as well.

[SPEAKER_09]: That was the first thing that they were concerned with. [SPEAKER_08]: did you see the clip on his really news of two I don't know if they're comedians but they're journalists who consider themselves funny talking to each other and saying uh... with these hostage being released it's a period it's a husband is asked if for us one of them looks like john ham they're in such great shape they look great

[SPEAKER_08]: don't they realize they need to look more beat up in the and scrawny in order to help with our housebar efforts and they were being kind of knowing and winged about it but there are 100% serious too like that's the thing that gets me about Israeli humor and irony is like they're laughing at themselves but not feeling the moral consequence of what they're saying it's like ha ha aren't we [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: No. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: It's, you know, it's not irony or sarcasm if it's not actually backed up by the world view that it is hinting at. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: If, if, if either of us said it, [SPEAKER_06]: The world view, I think, would be very clear based on our own jokes in the way we talk about it.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it's like, if you are not out there, you know, actively protesting this genocide, if you have not been speaking up about it for two years, then you're not being ironic. [SPEAKER_06]: You are literally being nihilistic. [SPEAKER_06]: You're being nihilistic is what you're being. [SPEAKER_06]: With a self-neprocating veneer. [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

[SPEAKER_09]: No, no, I just, the recent, the entire Sdate Manifair was another example of, you know, the only thing that shook up the Israeli society and of course the Israeli government was, oh, this is going to make us look very, very bad. [SPEAKER_08]: That's right, well, that's a perfect segue. [SPEAKER_06]: That's right, because we will be talking about that. [SPEAKER_08]: And yes, should we take a break first, Matt? [SPEAKER_06]: Give me a shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: But just to back up your point, you know, this is of something that was published in February of this year, which is Netanyahu calls stay Timon, League. [SPEAKER_06]: Biggest has barra disaster in Israeli history. [SPEAKER_06]: And what better podcast to talk about has barra disaster than bad has barra? [SPEAKER_06]: because we will be right back. [SPEAKER_06]: And we're back this badass barra world's most moral podcast here with Orley. [SPEAKER_06]: No, how are you doing?

[SPEAKER_06]: Thanks a lot. [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for staying up late with us tonight. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, thank you. [SPEAKER_09]: It's a pleasure and thank you. [SPEAKER_06]: Well, unfortunately, you know, this next story is to stuff that nightmares are made of. [SPEAKER_06]: So, [SPEAKER_06]: policies and advance, but yeah, we're going to be talking about the sort of recent update to the stay-tay-mond story from last year.

[SPEAKER_06]: So just to recap for those who maybe don't remember, but stay-tay-mond, which is a prison in the negative. [SPEAKER_06]: There was a video that came out, this was a believe in July of last year where a Palestinian detainee was hospitalized with broken ribs and a tear-toes rectum. [SPEAKER_06]: There's video of him being sexually assaulted by multiple soldiers within the prison. [SPEAKER_06]: And it was specifically the Force 100 soldiers, which is this is a unit within the IDF.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm assuming. [SPEAKER_06]: A military police reserve unit that guards terror suspects specifically. [SPEAKER_08]: It also employs them. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. [SPEAKER_06]: And on Monday, November 3rd, the severity of the abuse was a detailed, very recently, by Muhammad Shahada, who claims that the victim is still withholding his name, so it's still off the record.

[SPEAKER_06]: He will not say his name until he chooses to be on the record, but apparently [SPEAKER_06]: The IDF soldiers raped him so violently, this is a quote from Mohamed Chaud as Twitter that they [SPEAKER_06]: Rape Tim so violently until they exploded his intestines and ruptured his rectum. [SPEAKER_06]: He underwent 20 surgical operations, including clostomy and eurourostomy, and is still suffering medical complications to this day.

[SPEAKER_06]: Israel released him three weeks ago without him ever being charged or tried. [SPEAKER_06]: They likely released him so he wouldn't be able to testify a court against his rapists [SPEAKER_08]: There's a noticeable, and many people have noticed this, an obsession, a fixation in the world of Hasbarra, and it's really such a justification with sexual depravity alleged on the part of Palestinians, October 7th being the most epic case of a whole

[SPEAKER_08]: torture pornography, literally being created about all of these supposed acts committed, not just by individuals, but as a systemic West weaponized strategy of war, has barists love to comment people like me and Matt and saying, imagine your sister or mother with her pelvis crushed. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the most burrowed details of sexual violation.

[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I know the answer to this, because the documentary Tantura documents it and, you know, there were rapes, mass rapes during the knock, but what can you say about this psycho-sexual real perversion, actually, and projection that happens in Israeli society? [SPEAKER_09]: I think that the question of masculinity has been always a really essential part of the Zionist self-notion and in some really twisted sick way.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is a play on the issue of masculinity to prove your own and to deprive your victims masculinity by those horrific acts of rape and sexual violence. [SPEAKER_09]: You know, there are so many things that can be said psychologically about this need to humiliate, to sexually humiliate. [SPEAKER_09]: But this is not something new. [SPEAKER_09]: It's not new at all, actually.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: The biggest bar of talking point regarding sexual assault of any kind for the last two years has been the, you know, supposed sexual assault in mass and systemically of Israelis done by Palestinians on October 7th.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yet this story has always been sort of a thumb in the eye of the people who have used the accusation of rape as a weapon of war, because of the fact that it's, you know, a [SPEAKER_06]: they see it as maybe not in keeping with the narrative that they've been pushing out. [SPEAKER_08]: It's also nothing new, I guess, in the history of colonialism. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, of course. [SPEAKER_08]: One feature of every colonial and settler colonial system is to present.

[SPEAKER_06]: Turn into the indigenous population. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, as savage, morally, and completely project all of their own repressed rageful [SPEAKER_08]: vulnerability, hating psychological qualities onto the other. [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, right, then this has been an incredible case, uh, where now you have, uh, when was it? [SPEAKER_08]: It was certainly after the state team on story broke.

[SPEAKER_08]: one of the chief perpetrators or suspects, I guess, but almost admitted that he did it, appeared on his really television as like the masked singer, like something like that, right? [SPEAKER_08]: Where he comes on and he's wearing a hood and he takes it off and he gets big applause. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Is this a reference?

[SPEAKER_09]: And also yesterday, they held a press conference in the Masa, outside of a Supreme Court, and they have the sympathy of all in all, they have the sympathy of the general population in Israel, which is... [SPEAKER_06]: Which is totally terrifying, but here is this presser that they held with the force 100. [SPEAKER_06]: soldiers. [SPEAKER_00]: They fight for their justice, not on the battlefield, but in the courtrooms.

[SPEAKER_00]: dozens of fighters who need the support of the government, the support of the system, because they defended the home and only thanks to them. [SPEAKER_00]: We are all here today. [SPEAKER_00]: But instead of a hug, we received accusations. [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of thanks, we received silence. [SPEAKER_08]: Pause. [SPEAKER_06]: Instead of a hug. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: As Jay Z said, in the song Heart of the City, sensitive thugs, y'all all need hugs.

[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: You know, what is that symbol they're wearing on their shirts they're early? [SPEAKER_08]: Is that like, looks like the cock party or something? [SPEAKER_09]: It's not the cock. [SPEAKER_09]: I cannot see it from here. [SPEAKER_09]: But it says the 104's with some sort of, [SPEAKER_09]: It is a feast, yeah, yeah, maybe I don't. [SPEAKER_06]: Jesus, oh, but it's not fist. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that would be a bad luck, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's 100. [SPEAKER_09]: Don't underestimate their claim that we fought for the country. [SPEAKER_09]: And now you're abandoning us. [SPEAKER_09]: This works magic on the Israeli public. [SPEAKER_09]: That was the claim by El Orazaria, who executed [SPEAKER_09]: a dying Palestinian on the ground, and that was the claim of the person who executed mentally challenged Palestinian in East Jerusalem, and they got away with it. [SPEAKER_09]: So it that's a very strong like it works.

[SPEAKER_08]: Time where do you suppose it works? [SPEAKER_08]: Is it as simple as we [SPEAKER_08]: like because the entire country has evolved. [SPEAKER_09]: Can they learn? [SPEAKER_09]: They are. [SPEAKER_09]: And the thing is that, you know, they say, well, you want this war to be won. [SPEAKER_09]: This is a dirty war war. [SPEAKER_09]: We are doing the dirty job. [SPEAKER_09]: Then let us do it. [SPEAKER_09]: Don't question. [SPEAKER_08]: You want me in that prison.

[SPEAKER_08]: You need me with that code hand. [SPEAKER_08]: It's Jack Nicholson. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: And a few good men. [SPEAKER_09]: And think about what the German chancellor says that Israel is doing the dirty work for all of us. [SPEAKER_09]: This is what he's talking about. [SPEAKER_09]: What is the dirty work? [SPEAKER_09]: So everybody understands that there is a dirty work to be done. [SPEAKER_09]: So these people now come and say, okay, so we are doing the dirty work.

[SPEAKER_09]: Don't tell us how to do it. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, implicit in that sort of, you know, Western, you know, Western showvenism, you know, whether it's like either the German chancellor or just some, you know, [SPEAKER_06]: They're implying what needs to get done is the, I mean, total decimation of not just, you know, Palestinians, but of the Arab hordes out there, the Islamic hordes who need to be destroyed.

[SPEAKER_06]: They always say Israel is doing what the West should be doing whenever they talk about Iran, for example. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, what they're saying is very clear, if you read between the lines, [SPEAKER_06]: The wonderful thing about Israeli society and especially people like these force 100 officers or soldiers You don't have to read between the lines.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'll just say out loud the things that they're doing read the lines Yes, they just read the lines You didn't let us respond. [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't let us explain you put us on trial in front of me as beer That word in there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, as beer. [SPEAKER_00]: We know that one was as if you had already decided to implement it [SPEAKER_00]: But know this. [SPEAKER_00]: We will not be silent.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will continue to fight for justice for ourselves, for our friends, for our families, for everyone who stood up and defended the home. [SPEAKER_00]: We did not ask for mercy, we did not ask for forgiveness, only one thing, just. [SPEAKER_00]: You may have tried to break us but you forgot one thing. [SPEAKER_00]: We are at force of a hundred. [SPEAKER_06]: It's we are force one hundred. [SPEAKER_06]: I assume is what he says. [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, AI translation.

[SPEAKER_00]: We stand here in front of everyone and remind that behind every victory stand real fighters. [SPEAKER_00]: We also want to thank our lawyer who has supported us from the very first minute until the end. [SPEAKER_00]: We ask for forgiveness. [SPEAKER_08]: How much you want to bet his Jewish huh?

[SPEAKER_00]: We also want to think our lawyer who we've paid to be behind us people from the children who are going through what they should not have to enjoy But we will win because there is only one truth So I mean, you know, this is from an outside perspective [SPEAKER_06]: I think anyone in the West who's looking at this in this video, of course, is not meant for anyone in the United States. [SPEAKER_06]: It's not, I doubt it will get any airtime in, you know, on CNN or whatnot.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I think, you know, to the rest of us, we look at this and we go like, this is some pretty like theatrical psychopath shit.

[SPEAKER_06]: Seeing a group of masked people, [SPEAKER_06]: essentially defending the idea of what was done to this Palestinian prisoner at a state-taim on as being like, you know, necessary, but also like the, somehow a form of justice and that, you know, justice must be done for these poor soldiers who are being, you know, wrongfully accused or what, like, when we see a group of,

[SPEAKER_08]: like masked dudes and the masks themselves crazy they couldn't have chosen like if I was watching that with no sound I and I hadn't noticed yet that there was an orthodox Jewish looking guy with PS I'm like oh black balaclava's that's the stereotype of a commos fighter

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, for me the association is of KKK group after torching a black person and then coming and having they are upset because the torching of another human being is being questioned now and they have their justice and they speak, you know, they speak for about justice [SPEAKER_09]: truth and justice, and they believe in it. [SPEAKER_09]: But that's the in a system of supremacy, a general final system of supremacy.

[SPEAKER_09]: You do have a parallel set of justice and of truth. [SPEAKER_09]: So when they speak, they do mean that they're genuine about it. [SPEAKER_09]: That's the thing, the system provides them with an alternative justice and an alternative truth. [SPEAKER_08]: So there's a broken promise, there's a sense of betrayal. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_08]: Everything you raised us to believe. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_08]: We're just doing what you taught us. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's exactly it. [SPEAKER_09]: And you know, there is a person I don't know if you heard of him. [SPEAKER_09]: His name is Asakashel. [SPEAKER_09]: He's a professor in a university here. [SPEAKER_09]: And he's this guy is in charge of writing the ethical code for the idea. [SPEAKER_09]: Can you imagine? [SPEAKER_09]: And a few years back, he changed his old ethical code to say that now the lives of the Israeli soldiers are prior to the lives of Palestinian civilians.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is something against, you know, not just basic common sense, but against all international law and whatever. [SPEAKER_09]: But they have [SPEAKER_09]: a parallel alternative moral codes and truths and justice, and this guy is not a lunatic, he's a professor at the university, but that's the alternative, this is really

[SPEAKER_06]: it's wild to see and you know it explains a lot of what we saw subsequent to the video leaking of the Palestinian prisoner being sexually assaulted which was we saw riots and protests in front of the actual facility with not just civilians going out calling for you know justice for those who have been arrested for this crime and of course there was a [SPEAKER_06]: There were 10 suspects, and I believe five soldiers were indicted in February of this year of the abuse.

[SPEAKER_06]: There was, yes, there was members of the Kinesiate who are there. [SPEAKER_06]: arguing for justice for the actual accused perpetrators, you to assume that justice would be the charging of the people who did the crime, and the subsequent trial that would prove whether or not be on a reasonable doubt they did it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Instead they're saying just the mere act of accusation [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, essentially, they're saying they should have the right to rape Palestinian prisoners. [SPEAKER_09]: That's what they say. [SPEAKER_08]: And to bring us up the present day, it's not just the accusation and prosecution. [SPEAKER_08]: It's even exposing it. [SPEAKER_08]: That is the act of [SPEAKER_08]: treason.

[SPEAKER_08]: So we have the case of this woman who Matt, do you want to set up the fact of this because it's been a whole debacle and intrigue. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the whole this incident could be its own, you know, many series. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so this happened on the 31st of October. [SPEAKER_06]: Major General Yafat Tomar Yarru Shalmi admits that she leaked the abuse footage and resigned.

[SPEAKER_06]: Quote, I approve the leaking of evidence to the media and an attempt to confront the false propaganda against [SPEAKER_06]: the law enforcement officials in the military. [SPEAKER_06]: I take full responsibility for all of the evidence that was sent out to the media by this unit. [SPEAKER_06]: Based on this responsibility, I've also decided to conclude my role as MAG, which is a major attorney general. [SPEAKER_08]: So, wait a minute, she leaked it to try and help the soldiers?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, well, no, no, no, no, she leaked it as far as I can tell them, correct me if I'm wrong or early, but she leaked it because the arrests were coming down for these soldiers and people were screaming bloody murder at the arrest of our dear precious boys. [SPEAKER_06]: Got it. [SPEAKER_06]: And leaked the footage to show people look what they did. [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right? [SPEAKER_06]: Or do I have that wrong? [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's absolutely right.

[SPEAKER_09]: The question is, I mean, the question that many ask is, why in the first place, did you want to investigate this? [SPEAKER_09]: Why not, Barriott, like she buried so many other of the tens of thousands of cases?

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, in Batella, we published more than the over a year ago, a very thorough report called, called, Welcome to Hell about the situation of Palestinian prisoners after October 7. [SPEAKER_09]: in the Israeli detention facilities, it's torture camps, all of them, all of them, all of them. [SPEAKER_09]: So why did she single out this one case that she, in order to justify the interrogation, she had to leave this video to justify her decision to even open an investigation.

[SPEAKER_09]: in an ongoing genocide for two years. [SPEAKER_09]: So why this one? [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have any answer to that one? [SPEAKER_09]: Yes. [SPEAKER_09]: I do. [SPEAKER_08]: It's the past so question. [SPEAKER_08]: Why is this massively, this rate than all other than us? [SPEAKER_09]: So I think several, I have several assumptions that let's call it. [SPEAKER_09]: First, I think that this really was one of the more horrifying things that we know of.

[SPEAKER_09]: in a way that was not shaken by other cases and she had discovered her red line somewhere, but I think a more probable assumption would be, this entire facade of judicial entities, both the military and the civilian in Israel, can only keep [SPEAKER_09]: the international courts away as long as they prove that they can handle their own, that they actually do the job themselves.

[SPEAKER_09]: So once in a while, in order to look efficient enough, to be able to keep the international investigations away from the idea of soldiers, [SPEAKER_09]: to show that she is doing something possible reliability. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: Because otherwise, it would be easier to claim that, okay, you're just not functioning, you're not doing what you're so so the international forces need [SPEAKER_09]: to protect the idea of soldiers from being persecuted in the international courts for the crimes that they committed. [SPEAKER_09]: So she sort of sacrificed this one in order to protect so so many others. [SPEAKER_06]: But you made shield, so to speak.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yes, but Israel already became so crazy that even that [SPEAKER_09]: Um, one lip service to the so-called rule of justice is not possible anymore. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, she's been on this really Edward Snowden. [SPEAKER_09]: Right. [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: In the public's eyes. [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the outrage has been betar is falling for the death penalty for her. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it is, I've never seen such outrage for something, especially since like, you know, as you're talking about it, they're, [SPEAKER_06]: This is not the first case of this being talked about. [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, there was a similar outrage last year from a picture of a prisoner at Statemon who is identified as name was Ibrahim Selem.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he actually went on to describe [SPEAKER_06]: uh... the abuse that he received while he was there and of course it is the same it is the same story as the one with the nameless victim that we are that people are currently denying in drugs not only are they saying you know that uh...

[SPEAKER_06]: It's wrong to leak the video, but they're denying that it even happened and they say that the video is you know, it's doctored and it didn't happen and if it had it would have been correct. [SPEAKER_06]: And so here is just some of his own work. [SPEAKER_01]: For us prisoners, that punishment was nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: There are sexual punishments, greater punishment, greater beatings. [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing was more humiliating than when they made me take my clothes off.

[SPEAKER_01]: or when they inserted this object into my butt. [SPEAKER_01]: Or when a young female soldier kept touching my penis, there's even more and more. [SPEAKER_06]: So I mean, you know, this is very similar to the abuse that is being alleged in this video that everyone is now denying.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy to me to see the amount [SPEAKER_06]: of vitriol for the release of this video and I think it's because they've been able to so far including this A.G. by the way, deny this, not just to, you know, the outside world but internally to themselves.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, the fact is that this is probably not the first time that that, you know, Toma Euro's Xiaomi has heard abuse allegations, but it's the first time that she had incontrovertible proof of it that has been videotaped, knowing the video existed. [SPEAKER_06]: um, was probably uh, reason enough to leak it. [SPEAKER_06]: And, and so, you know, she, I think, uh, you know, did it for the reasons of going, well, at least I can get on the right side of this in some way.

[SPEAKER_06]: And in some way, kind of like, I don't know, reaffirm this belief that I do something. [SPEAKER_06]: That that I serve a function that this is not a dictatorship of the Liquid party and yeah, yeah, I'm sorry go ahead now totally and and also you know it's it's This is another she she wants [SPEAKER_09]: And then she can say, well, the idea is, in fact, the most moral army in the world, as would say, a year ago, the head of the Zionist left party.

[SPEAKER_09]: If you asked today, a year ago, and he would tell you that without linking, without hesitation, yes, the Israeli army is, in fact, the most more. [SPEAKER_09]: And look, we prosecute the perpetrators, we do it. [SPEAKER_09]: play and everybody plays its own role in it. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and just see what's going on. [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_08]: Here's Baitar. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: Here's Baitar saying, we demanded need the death penalty.

[SPEAKER_06]: Trader. [SPEAKER_06]: You fat Tomar, your, your Rushal, me betray the IDF and the nation during wartime as military advocate general. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, with advocate general, excuse me. [SPEAKER_06]: She leaked a classified video that [SPEAKER_06]: fueling global antisemitism, damaging Israel's image and undermining trust within the army itself.

[SPEAKER_06]: She oversaw her own code investigation, covered up the leak and misled the courts, the [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I kind of agree with them, as I almost always do, just in the complete opposite direction. [SPEAKER_08]: She and everyone involved in the army, whether they put on a liberal face or not, should face full criminal accountability. [SPEAKER_08]: But then the story took kind of a crazy, made for TV turned. [SPEAKER_08]: Didn't she disappear for 24 hours?

[SPEAKER_09]: It was so crazy. [SPEAKER_09]: It was so amazing. [SPEAKER_09]: So she disappeared and only as apparently she had disappeared only already from the early morning hours but only in evening they started to you know speak about it in the news [SPEAKER_09]: And the next thing we know that her car was found by the cliffs near the sea deserted with a suicide letter in it in the car and she is nowhere to be found.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like the entire like what she committed suicide and it was like such. [SPEAKER_09]: But then she was found, the thing that was not found was her telephone, which now many people say that the entire thing was played in order for her to be able to get rid of her phone. [SPEAKER_09]: But just before I came on this podcast, the latest thing I saw was that iPhone was actually discovered and it still wasn't clear if it's hers or not.

[SPEAKER_09]: But the entire thing went into the spheres of, like, I don't know what it did. [SPEAKER_06]: it's like a tabloids. [SPEAKER_06]: That's what it went into. [SPEAKER_06]: I went into the field, like into sort of like tabloid murder mystery territory where suddenly we're talking about a fake suicide now. [SPEAKER_06]: It's just it's like a poorly written, you know, spy movie.

[SPEAKER_08]: And it makes my, it makes my head, yes, like, [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you're on a ton, La Carre, or something like that. [SPEAKER_08]: And sorry, that was a little late, but my mind goes to, okay, was she incentivized, was she blackmailed into leaking it, and then disappearing, like, was this all staged? [SPEAKER_08]: Is there someone above who's pulling the strings, like, because it is also, uh, yeah, Baroque and involved in sensationalistic.

[SPEAKER_09]: And another option, nothing is too crazy to be happening in Israel. [SPEAKER_09]: It's not because really anything can happen here. [SPEAKER_09]: It's everything is so suddenly crazy. [SPEAKER_09]: But this is really like a third rate. [SPEAKER_06]: It's a shitty Christian novel. [SPEAKER_09]: It's a really, really. [SPEAKER_09]: I don't, and now she's arrested by the way, now she's arrested, she's in custody.

[SPEAKER_09]: Can you imagine this person was the chief prosecutor for the army, and now she's, like, she attempted to suicide, but maybe she didn't, maybe it was fake, and now she's in custody. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it all it all seems to be going in the same direction that, you know, beta is at least hoping for, which is for her to face full criminal prosecution for the crime of leaking this video.

[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, it is, it is an interesting, [SPEAKER_06]: internal Israeli story because to the rest of the world, the story is not the leaker, the story is what was leaked and what was, you know, proven by this video, which was that, you know, [SPEAKER_06]: You know, prisoners, and it's funny seeing the defenses of the video. [SPEAKER_06]: I have one from this one, as barist I follow, whose name is Adine. [SPEAKER_06]: And he wrote, explain it to me like I'm five.

[SPEAKER_06]: How exactly they quote rape without taking their pants off? [SPEAKER_08]: First of all, I would never explain that to a five-year-old.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me,

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's like, here's, you know, hell, old, who hasn't got enough exposure on this podcast. [SPEAKER_06]: He really hasn't, but he's, he is a true piece of work. [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone who is now doubling down on that video and focusing on those innocent soldiers, and not on the traitor, and her accomplices is dangerous and treasonous themselves. [SPEAKER_08]: Colonel Jessup, did you order the anal rape of that Palestinian prisoner? [SPEAKER_08]: You're goddamn right, I did.

[SPEAKER_06]: And, and of course, when there was that brief moment in which everyone was like, did she kill herself? [SPEAKER_06]: Hello, fold. [SPEAKER_06]: Kind of went on a little bit of damage control or what. [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, waving me here. [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, if they find Israel's chief military legal officer, Major General, you fat, Tomarillo, Shalmy, but it's looking more and more like suicide terrible. [SPEAKER_06]: And yes, I did call her traitor yesterday.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yes, if she did take her life, it's a terrible tragedy. [SPEAKER_08]: Terrible. [SPEAKER_08]: I want to their them to put her against the wall and shooter. [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, she's she's brought us over the taste of revenge. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I I pray she was okay, but I'm very skeptical and just sorry, one more of a whole old fold. [SPEAKER_06]: This is um, has nothing to do with a story, but this is him talking about a fishing attempt.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, he got an email from medical rears that said, I hope this message find you well. [SPEAKER_06]: We came across your impressive background in marketing analytics and data driven strategy, and we believe it'd be a great fit for our marketing science partner, bit role-based in Israel, and he wrote, wow. [SPEAKER_06]: This was a different level of fishing attempt. [SPEAKER_06]: Best I've ever seen. [SPEAKER_06]: What a felt for it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Of course, now that, you know, we're all on. [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I am confirmed for me that it's fake. [SPEAKER_06]: I changed my passwords. [SPEAKER_06]: They're getting really good. [SPEAKER_06]: I just really love him posting about his fishing attempt. [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, this email really did sound like the, the, the, the, the, the, it really did sound like a Nigerian prince. [SPEAKER_08]: You know, right, he even included a picture.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he, he showed me the money he was going to send me. [SPEAKER_06]: He just needed a thousand dollars first. [SPEAKER_08]: Um, anyway, included a picture of a map of Nigeria. [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone who posts that, uh, you know, that they, they were fished and then is also trying to be like the arbiter of what's true and what's not like, you know, that video is fake. [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, bro, you, you gave your password to.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you shouldn't be the one saying what's fake and what isn't I immediately changed my password from password to password one Password one But yeah, I mean, you know the story seems to be at least in Israel [SPEAKER_06]: seems to be so much focused on the leak that it's, yeah, I'd wonder, and maybe early you can, you know, shed some light on this, but how is the, the, the regular person in Israel looking at this case?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so no, if I finish completed your question in my mind, so the answer is no, and I tell you why. [SPEAKER_09]: I think that you wanted to know if an ordinary normal is really what you're looking for, maybe.

[SPEAKER_06]: are the essence right are they focusing on the substance of the fact that this is something that happened that isn't that in the IDF or are they focusing on the idea of the you know the deep state being trying to you know set this all up for the sake of I don't know doing judicial reform or whatever

[SPEAKER_09]: is exactly, I think that once the war was over and all the kidnapped returned, so this is really sort of society sort of closed that chapter, and went to October 6, which is again examining everything to the frame of the judicial coup or the reforms or whatnot, [SPEAKER_09]: So one camp would say this is another example of the corrupted deep state that is controlling the whatnot and it's part of the judicial elite that is against the wheel of the people and against the people.

[SPEAKER_09]: And the other camp would say this is another example of [SPEAKER_09]: the fascist and undemocratic, you know, trying to undermine the Israeli amazing democracy and, you know, God forbid, our strong solid democracy would be shaken by those [SPEAKER_09]: So we went back to the same terminology, same conception of reality, divided between those two camps. [SPEAKER_09]: With the Palestinians, of course, being completely left out of the story.

[SPEAKER_09]: They are non- [SPEAKER_09]: relevant as far as the East Railways from both camps are concerned the Palestinians themselves or this Palestinians victim is completely irrelevant now to the story. [SPEAKER_09]: The story is now between the two Jewish Israeli camps. [SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy. [SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy. [SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, especially, you know, it's [SPEAKER_06]: You know, some new information just came to light drop site just reported that the IDF order reveals Palestinian gang rate gang raped by soldiers at Stitemon at Stitemon was a civilian not a quote, Nuckbuff fighter and so, you know, it's the the entire [SPEAKER_08]: Nuchba is really that's Hebrew for terrorist, right? [SPEAKER_08]: It's not Hebrew. [SPEAKER_09]: It's actually the Arabic word. [SPEAKER_09]: Nuchba is a professional.

[SPEAKER_09]: So the Nuchba or the Hamas professionals who were trained to do the attack on October 7.

[SPEAKER_09]: of course you I mean you could have assumed that just by the fact that he was released and if they could have proven that he was a notebook they would have used that much more fair stain that propaganda so maybe they're just used to like I don't know how to kill one that's right in front of me can you put them back in Gaza so we could drone strike him yeah yeah the only way they know how to do yeah

[SPEAKER_06]: But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's like the fact that the story is not that, you know, even among the liberals, to me, it's just crazy and truly to bring things full circle because we're going to wrap up here. [SPEAKER_08]: Every single time there's a scandal like this and the light. [SPEAKER_08]: Some light is shed for the world on the true nature of Israeli society.

[SPEAKER_08]: And Israeli society finds a way to cling the door shut and stay inside of this, intra-Jewish supremacist debate. [SPEAKER_08]: It's just another, like I say, they're clanging the door of their own cell and the the suicidality of that society takes one more step towards, you know, every time there isn't an opportunity to learn from and to look at oneself the way the world sees you. [SPEAKER_08]: You're locking yourself further in your narcissist prison.

[SPEAKER_08]: So, [SPEAKER_08]: I don't even know what to wish you living there, but we wish you a tremendous debt of gratitude and thanks for coming on our podcast and shedding so much light, sanity and illumination on what's going on there. [SPEAKER_08]: There's two way to a few people like you. [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much for having me. [SPEAKER_09]: It was a pleasure. [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, thank you for coming on.

[SPEAKER_06]: We hope to have you back soon and where can people find you and find your work?

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, I'm an old timer, so mostly I'm Facebook and a little bit on, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

[SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much. [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, patreon.com slash bad as barra, bad as barra at gmail.com for all your questions, comments, and concerns, alright everyone. [SPEAKER_06]: That's the show. [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks again so much for listening and until next time, from the river to the sea. [SPEAKER_08]: How do you say a country full of rape apologists in far sea?

[SPEAKER_04]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [UNKNOWN]: You