Guy: [00:00:00] Hey Guy Powell here with the backstory on the Shroud of Turin. And today we're doing a series of interviews promoting the upcoming Shroud of Turin conference taking place in St. Louis, beginning at the end of July. July 31st and going through August 3rd. Today we're speaking with Jim Bertrand, and he's gonna be one of the speakers there, and we're so much looking forward to his message and what he has to say about the shroud and everything.
He's a longtime researcher, and as I mentioned a speaker, and he's done literally hundreds of talks on the shrouds. So Jim, welcome. So good to have you.
Jim: Well, thank you Guy. I, I look forward to this opportunity to connecting with people, uh, before and after the conference if they like to watch this.
Guy: Yeah, absolutely.
I'm, uh, there's gonna be a couple of hundred people there and so it'll be nice [00:01:00] to get to meet new people and meet you for the first time face to face, which will be a new experience, and, and then go from there. So, uh, tell us what, uh, new insights and new things will you be sharing at the at the Shroud 2025 conference.
Jim: Sure. Well, I think every speaker is gonna bring their own unique, you know, flavor of, of information to share. And, and with me it's two things. I'd say the first thing is understanding, you know, learning about the shroud is, is something I think interests most people. But if, if all we get do is get information and then don't do anything with that, that we haven't really accomplished much.
So back in 2014, I was, I was commissioned. By the American Comp Attorney, the Holy Shroud, to, uh, take this book by Dr. Jo John Jackson and, and summarize it into a PowerPoint. And it has been a wonderful experience and, and my background of teaching high school science for 40 years, uh, prepared me to be, uh, I'm experienced with, you know, how do you explain things in such a way so that people can understand it.[00:02:00]
So it was a good match that way. And you know, it, it's one thing to hear a fact and repeat that, but I hope the insights that I can give people is to impart to others, to, to really understand it in such a way that they could share it with others because they truly understand what they're saying. I'll give you one example here for how do we better understand the relationship between, uh, the bloodstains on the shroud and the image in terms of, of when that occurred.
Well, if this were the work of of an artist, they would've painted or drawn an image on first onto the linen and then added the blood afterwards. So it'd be anatomically correct. So an artist is gonna put the image on and then the blood, but the shroud doesn't show that. The shroud shows that the blood came first, perhaps Good Friday, and the image came afterwards.
Perhaps Easter Sunday. And, and this was verified with x-rays back in 1978. So, so understanding is one thing, and, and I think a second point is prayer. You [00:03:00] know, for, for nine days before each of these talks, I give, I, I pray a, a personal prayer for each individual who will attend that presentation. And, and part of it goes like this, you know, I pray God, that your image on the shroud will touch each and every human heart.
To ponder your perfect and divine love. May this most precious image assist us in our journey to become saints. And I do that for nine days, for all the people that will attend. So that during those minutes while they're watching this, there, there's a, a spiritual grace given them to understand in a more deeper way.
And this prayer makes a difference because, um, you know, we've had countless people tell me after these are done that, you know, I knew a lot about the shroud. And I've read lots of books, but, well, I'm understanding it now that as I've never understood it before, and, and in these past 10 years, I've, I've, I've given over 350 of these and every one of them was a positive experience.
And as further evidence that prayer makes a difference. Uh, since that time, you know, God has made [00:04:00] open many doors to me across 30 states now, um, without a website and without any promotional materials, just by word of mouth. So this experience is meaningful enough. And powerful enough that it can grow and spread by word of mouth alone.
So, so the insights people can gain from coming to this is, is a deeper understanding through the graces of prayer that will be prayed on, on their behalf.
Guy: Wow, that's a, uh, powerful message and it makes sense. Um, and whoever said that, uh, that prayer didn't have power, so, uh, um, that's a interesting, very interesting way to do that.
I really like that. So, uh, so, you know, one challenge that, uh, the shroud, uh, though brings up is, uh, for a lot of people they say, well, I don't need the shroud to, you know, for my faith, my faith is strong enough without it. Why do I need a relic? And uh, so how do you respond to that?
Jim: Well, the resurrection stands on its [00:05:00] own to be sure, but if it's authentic, then this means that God has given it to us and for what reason.
And so what should our response be? Indifference is, is that what God wants from us? Indifference if he's given this to us for some reason, or rather a, can it strengthen our faith enough to share the good news about the resurrection with others? So those are the options. You have indifference. Or let it strengthen your faith.
Share the good news. The shroud is not an end in itself. You know, it points to a person, you know, Jesus Christ, uh, whom we want to spend our eternity with in, in the presence of God in heaven. So, so if the shroud can be used by us to help others reach heaven, then, then how could we not respond that way to the shroud for such a worthy reason, uh, you know, for the greater glory of God and, and the salvation of soul.
So I. I would ask the question, does God want indifference or does he want you to use this in a way that will help others to heaven?
Guy: Yeah. That is, uh, very powerful as well because, uh, you know, when you think [00:06:00] about it, uh, anything that we do in Christ should be able to hopefully either bring people to Christ, bring new folks to Christ, or to help folks to strengthen their.
Their faith and, and potentially have them use what they learned to strengthen the faith of others. And so that makes a, that makes a lot of sense. So then, uh, what, uh, you know, you're gonna be there. Why should someone want to attend the conference coming up?
Jim: Well, they're gonna get, uh, information that isn't just, you know, hearsay on the internet.
You know, many people will, will go to the internet and, and take that as gospel truth. And many times there's, there's some misinformation. On the internet that gets spun around or there are things stated as facts that are mere hypotheses, but when you get to hear things from the horse's mouth, uh, these scientific researchers that do this, I, I myself, don't consider myself, you know, I haven't done hands-on study with the shroud.
My particular niche is to take the information and explain it to people so they can [00:07:00] understand it. So I. I see myself as someone that helps people connect with the information. I'm a communicator, but I think people can gain from that. They'll, they'll get something, a better experience than they'll get on the internet because the internet is a mixture of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I.
Guy: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, in the conference, uh, the objective of the conference is to not only help researchers and academicians to learn more about other fields that they may not be that, uh, familiar with, but also to help speakers like yourself and even lay people to get to the next level of detail in certain areas and, and, and get that aha moment and say, oh, I didn't know that.
Or I really liked the way that you explained. For example, I really liked the way that he explained how the blood came first. And then the image came second as opposed to how people, how an artist, uh, uh, you know, a human artist would do it, which would be to paint the image first and then apply the blood second.
And so the [00:08:00] way that you explained it, uh, is definitely something for all of us, uh, all of us that are shroud enthusiasts. And Shroud Atheists to help us to do a better job at explaining and, and promoting the message and making people aware of the shroud. And hopefully then to your point from before, is to strengthen the faith of, uh, of others.
So, yeah. Fantastic.
Jim: Well, in terms of how the faith, uh, how the shroud has affected my faith, I, I think it's made me much more likely to speak up and share the good news with others that, you know, that Christ has risen. There is a resurrection in our future as well. You know, I think perhaps for many of us, our faith is something that we keep to ourselves.
It, it stays between our ears, but it's not verbalized. But in these last 10 years, um, the shroud has compelled me to action, to, to share my faith with others. I think. Over 35,000 people in person. Now that doesn't count the radio and TV things, but the, the Shroud gives us confidence to share the good news, and I could use this analogy just as the Holy [00:09:00] Spirit descended on the apostles of Pentecost so that they could spread their faith abroad.
I mean, the shroud can impart to us that same confidence to share the truth about the resurrection. And it's a privilege to share the message of the shroud, which I think is that our hope in the resurrection is real.
Guy: Mm-hmm. Yes. Well said. Well, Jim, uh, thank you so much. This has, uh, been awesome and, uh, a very stunning and wonderful, uh, perspective on, on the upcoming conference.
And, uh, for those of us, uh, those of you that are listening, if you found this interesting, please visit the uh, conference website, which is at Shroud 2025. conference.com, shroud 2025 conference.com. There you can learn more and you can, uh, meet some of the speakers and see what they're gonna be talking about.
And we hope that we will also inspire you to come to the, come to the conference. Jim, thank you so much. Really appreciate [00:10:00] it.
Jim: And thank you Guy and all that you do in helping to, uh, promote this conference and the shroud around the world. So God bless you.
Guy: Oh, thank you very much. Uh, really, very appreciated.
Thank you, Jim. Okay, bye-Bye guys. Bye.