The Berlin Wall, USSR, Tiananmen Square and Digital Evolution - With Mr Wolsey

Hello everybody and welcome to the second episode of the Back in My Day podcast. I am Oliver Forbes, your host for today, and with me I have Jack Ware, my co-host. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, hope you're all doing well. Today, we are going to be interviewing our very own headmaster, Mr. Wolsey. Would you like to say hello? Hello, everybody. So, Mr. Wolsey, let's just jump straight into it.

So can you give us a short summary of your life leading up to now? So your childhood beliefs, where you grew up, your inspiration to go into teaching and school stuff. And your inspiration specifically to go into humanities, because your first job here was as head of humanities. Yeah, I was head of humanities when I first came in 2007. So...

Summarising my whole life, that's quite a big question. I'll give it my best shot. There are 50 years of life now. So I was born in 1973. I grew up in Plymouth in Devon. My father was in the Royal Navy and then he started to work in the Royal Naval Dockyard down in Devonport in Plymouth. My mother was a nurse, so I grew up in Plymouth, Devon, a long way from London.

And I think only when I moved to London did I realise quite how far away Plymouth was, not just geographically, but probably culturally as well. So I spent my first 18 years in Plymouth. And then I went off to university. And you're right, I went to read humanities at university specifically.

Well, actually, specifically, I went to read English literature in the first instance, and I switched to history whilst I was at university. Why did all of that happen? Well, do you know, right through the whole of my... education up into the age of 16. I'd always wanted to be a lawyer.

I always wanted to maybe be a solicitor, maybe a barrister, something like that. It was only when I hit the sixth form that things started to change. And my goodness, studying A-level English Lit in particular was super transformative to me. It opened up.

all of these ways of thinking about the world that really I hadn't considered until I was in the sixth form. And this was such an important experience, it made me absolutely certain that when I went to university, I wanted to spend more time reading. I wanted to immerse myself in the world's great literature. As I say, it was only when I got to university that suddenly that changed.

After a year of doing English Lit, I just didn't enjoy it. I loved at A-level really getting super familiar with a relatively small number of texts and devoting myself completely to them. I just couldn't cope with just the number of books, the pace at which I needed to read at university. So I stopped doing English Lit. I went into history. And for the next few years, I...

I think I had a growing emergence that I enjoyed teaching. I enjoyed talking about the things that I really love. But at least for quite a while, I always thought that was going to be in a university. So I did my first degree. I spent a year then backpacking around Australia. I went back to university for a master's degree. And at that point, I was thinking really, really hard about maybe then...

doing a PhD and trying to find a job in academia. And what I think then happened is I had some opportunities to work with some younger people, never really done that before. And I found that really, really enjoyable. I got so much. So much energy kind of reflected back from the teenagers that I was working with over the course of summer holidays. And I think it's that point I thought, no, I want to be a school teacher. And I did my teacher training. My first job was in Manchester as a teacher.

History. I worked in Manchester for a little while, then I moved down into a school in Hampshire, in Petersfield Churches College, relatively close to Ibstock. I worked there for a long time, then I moved. My first head of department job was in a... grammar school in Essex. In 2007, I fetch up here at Ibstock as head of humanities in the first instance, and I've been here ever since. That's a very good job of cramming all those years into...

How long was that? Two minutes? Okay, so now let's just jump straight into the history aspect of this podcast. So some of the events that happened during your life was most notably Fall of the Berlin Wall, which happened in... 1989, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it was November. November 1989. November. So this was the wall that had divided Berlin since 1961.

And it was built to contain East Berlin citizens living under Soviet occupation from moving to the more economically developed West that was controlled by the Allies. The event symbolized the end of the Cold War as thousands of East Germans crossed over to West Berlin after...

East German government announced that it would allow free travel between the two sides. So, do you remember where you were when you learned of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and what were your thoughts on it? I don't remember the exact moment. I first heard about it, so it's not a kind of JFK kind of moment for me, but I can say...

with certainty that I was just starting the sixth form. So I was about two, three months into A-level study at that point. And I've actually already talked about how kind of transformative that was for me. And what I remember really clearly is... At this point in the English Lit course that was at that point transforming my life, we were doing a lot of work about romanticism, 19th century.

romanticism. And if you know anything about 19th century romanticism, you'll know the emphasis that that gives to the individual. You'll know the emphasis that that gives to the notion of kind of freedom. And what I remember most... clearly is the way in which my studies in European romanticism kind of coalesced with my awareness of what was happening in Germany. And really, I saw the fall of the war as a kind of...

fundamental expression of the romantic spirit. That's what I remember most clearly about it. And I guess the fact that it was happening in Germany, one of the cradles of European romanticism seemed to me entirely appropriate. So it's kind of weird example of my academic studies being born out in the kind of lived political experience of my kind of late adolescence. That's what I remember most clearly. That's actually really interesting because...

Last time when we had Mr. Watson, he was studying economics when the 2008 financial crash happened. So that's really interesting to have two guest stars in a row have something they were studying. and a historical event happen at the same time that had a lot of connection to each other. So going on from that, the fall on the Berlin Wall also happened in the same year as the Tiananmen Square incident. So for those that don't know, Tiananmen Square happened...

off the death of the beloved CCP general secretary. I don't really know how to pronounce his name, but I think it's Hu Yaobang, I think. Jack, do you know how to pronounce that? I think, yeah, Hugh Yangbang. Hugh Yangbang. All right. And he was more democratic compared to other CCP members. So student protesters, yeah, student protesters called for democracy, free speech, and free press in China.

And the protesters grew to a size of one million at their peak. And the CCP reacted by sending troops and tanks to disperse the protests. And thousands died. But... This event was covered up by the Chinese government, and foreign journalists were killed if they were caught recording. So, even though they tried to... limit how much media there was on this. Was there much media attention in England about the Tiananmen Square incident?

Yeah, there certainly was. I remember it. I probably remember it less well than I remember the events around the fall of the Berlin Wall. And I guess one of the reasons for that is that at this point... China perhaps was at a slightly different point in its own trajectory, and it wasn't quite the kind of powerhouse economy that it is today. And I guess that had some kind of impact.

on my perceptions of what was happening. But the thing that I remember most, and I rather suspect other people who have memories of this will probably place this foremost amongst them, were those extraordinarily powerful and famous images of the... and the protester standing in front of the tank. I remember that. And I guess I remember my reflections on how that which was happening in China...

offered a sort of counterposed experience to that which was happening in Berlin. It's very much the nature of a totalitarian regime. that perhaps Mikhail Gorbachev in the Soviet Union had moved his country beyond. And so it was a kind of reminder of what had happened in Soviet days, perhaps in previous decades. Yeah, that's kind of about as much as I remember. I remember being shocked, but it wasn't quite as...

as a significant an event in my estimation of world politics at that time as that which was happening in the USSR. I think that in hindsight... I just spent a lot less time thinking about China and thinking about geopolitics outside of Europe. And I think that was probably reflective of the world that I grew up in. Okay.

So, and going back to the end of the Cold War, when we talked about the fall of the Berlin Wall, another event that really put an end to the Cold War was the collapse of the Soviet Union. And this event occurred between 1988 and 1991 and involved a series of political, economic, and social changes that led to the breakup of the nation into 15 individual states.

This led to the loss of legitimacy and authority of the Communist Party, economic crisis across the affected countries, and the rise of nationalism and separatist movements in the Soviet republics. So do you remember the global reaction? Do you remember the global reaction and your reaction to this collapse?

Yeah, I do. And obviously it was really significant news. What I remember is it didn't really sort of come like a bolt from the blue. You know, I was actually pretty well attuned to what was happening in the Soviet Union right through the 1980s. I followed the Cold War quite closely. I've always been interested in politics.

You may or may not know that the place that I grew up in is one of the two homes of the Royal Navy, which was obviously at the kind of very forefront of the Cold War. My father had been in the Royal Navy. He worked in the Royal Naval Dockyard. always understood the nature of the standoff that existed between East and West. And so that made me quite interested in what was happening in the Soviet Union. So I'd followed the career of Mikhail Gorbachev. I knew about the reforms that he had.

He was making in the Soviet Union in the late 1980s and learned all about the way in which the relationship with the Baltic republics was evolving very quickly in the late 1980s. So when the Soviet Union collapsed... It wasn't really a big surprise for me. What did I think about it? I thought it was a wholly positive development, is what I thought. I probably, at a subconscious level...

bought into the notion that this was, as Francis Fukuyama later said, the end of history, the kind of triumph of liberal democracy across the West. I kind of assumed that in time, Boris Yeltsin would be successful in turning Russia into... a successful liberal democracy. So I don't think I ascribed any potential downside to what happened as a late teenager. I thought this was, again, I'll come back to that point I made about romanticism earlier.

manifestation of man's fundamental urge for freedom and one final question from me before Jack takes over about the USSR did the collapse of the USSR affect the uk in any way in any way you know oh yeah definitely I mean, it had a very immediate and obvious effect for me growing up down in Plymouth. I've already said Plymouth was the home of the Royal Navy. Back then, the Royal Navy was like really big. And so there were a lot of ships based in Devonport and therefore an awful lot of work.

for the people who lived in Plymouth. And what we saw in the years after the end of the Cold War was the peace dividend. And in many ways, it was a really, really good thing. The country had to spend much less of its budget on defence. For those who lived in Plymouth, though, this is really bad news, because Denport dockyard absolutely shrunk, and lots and lots of people consequently lost their...

jobs. And this was not a good news story for Plymouth Devon at the time. So I remember that really clearly. I think more widely, though, what it meant for the UK. It certainly meant that... British foreign policy could countenance, in the years after the end of the Soviet Union, it could countenance military intervention perhaps more easily than had been the case before. We begin the New Labour era under Tony Blair.

What we saw around the late 1990s, the early 2000s, is a Britain that feels more assertive, a Britain that is more ready to deploy military force to service fundamentally. liberal and democratic ends, but to use military power sometimes in order to achieve that. And that of course culminates in 2003 with Britain's participation in the invasion of Iraq. And I think that that was a direct consequence.

of what had happened in the Soviet Union. Okay, nice information. Now, it is Jack's turn to introduce his topic. So, Jack, take it away.

You also live through a period that debatably caused the most change in the last few decades, the rise of computers. Throughout the last century, computers have been under constant development, turning them into the magical devices we use today. The first computers were non-electric. They were mechanical systems using gears and levers. The first electronic computers were developed in the 1940s and 50s using vacuum tubes and transistors to process and store data.

The invention of the integrated circuit in 1958 revolutionized the field of computing and allowed thousands of transistors to be packed on small chips, reducing the size, cost, and power consumption of computers. Nowadays we use very different types of computers that we used in the early 80s and 90s. What were these early computers like? Well...

The ones that I remember, the ones that people had in their homes, so they were remarkably, remarkably basic machines, really kind of primitive by, I guess, today's standards. Even what we carry in our pockets is so infinitely more... than the sorts of things that we had in homes. What I remember is... The dominant products were produced by a man called Sir Clive Sinclair, who kind of introduced Britain to home computing. So there were some very basic machines called ZX80s and then the ZX81.

which I remember perhaps most obviously, and then later on something called the ZX Spectrum. So really, really primitive machines, but they bought kind of low-cost computing to the great British public, and I think deserved their place then in the history. of the UK's embrace of technology. Yeah, definitely, because I guess the explosion in computers started, originated in America, so I guess there were kind of some...

UK exclusive brands that you guys were familiar with. So moving on, this huge increase in processor power and size and cost is partly due to Moore's law. This was the observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit doubles every two years, which implies that computing power would rise exponentially. Moore's Law was named after Gordon Moore, the co-founder and former CEO of Intel, who made this prediction in 1965 based on trends he noticed in chip manufacturing.

it ended up being one of the most accurate predictions as processing power grew to incredibly high levels. Did you ever learn about Moore's Law in your childhood? Never heard of it, at least not in the way that you've just described it. But what I can say is I think there was a widespread awareness that computers were... going to become ever more powerful they were going to shape our lives in a way that we could only scarcely imagine there was quite a lot of optimism

I think, back in the 1980s about that. There was a show that you may or may not have ever heard of. It was called Tomorrow's World. It was a big show. Lots and lots of people watched it. It was on BBC back in the time when pretty much everybody watched the BBC. And what I remember from Tomorrow's World was this...

constant diet of great optimism about the way in which technology was going to make our lives better. And I think I very much thought about computers in exactly that way, that this was a force for good and that my life was going to be much improved. by their increasing dominance in our lives. So it's safe to say it was discussed quite heavily in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, it was. Moving on, we can't discuss computers without the emergence...

of personal computers. In the 1970s and 80s, computers became accessible to millions of people around the world who could buy, use and program their own machines at home or work. This emergence of demand created a new industry which aimed to build computers and software for them. Nowadays, $315 billion of revenue are made. from the computer market per year, growing by 2% each year. What was your first household computer, and do you remember anything about it?

Yeah, it was a Commodore 16s. It was one of the American imports that you mentioned earlier on. So it wasn't a particularly sophisticated piece of kit. What I remember most clearly about it, though, was that unlike those Sinclair products that I...

talked about earlier, it had a proper keyboard. And I was really proud that it had a proper keyboard. Couldn't really do very much. You could play some really kind of rudimentary games on it. And that's really all I ever did with it. But it was the keyboard that I remember the most. high-quality piece. Yeah, interestingly, in research for my HPQ and this podcast, I looked at a lot of very old computers, and interestingly, they haven't changed.

much as kind of you'd like to think like the mouse the keyboard the monitor all the main components are kind of still still there 40 years later so it's yeah it's pretty pretty incredible You also live through the emergence of the World Wide Web. The advent of the Internet and the World Wide Web in the late 1980s and 90s transformed computing into a global network of communication, information, and collaboration.

What were your early experiences with the internet, and what did you initially think of it? I think I was aware of the internet in probably the early 1990s, actually. Oddly, I didn't know it was called the Internet at that point. But one of my friends at university was doing computer science. He was really good at computer science. And he often used to talk to me, I remember, about things like hyperlinks. I had no real idea what he was talking about.

In hindsight, I can see he was involved in the early inception of the Internet. I just didn't realize it at the time. So I don't really think I properly engaged with the Internet until the very early 2000s. I remember it coming up for me in my life at about the same time as the events on 9-11, 2001 in New York City. And that's where I think I first became...

properly engage with what was happening online. So I used it a lot at that point to gather in news. I remember very, very early versions of the BBC News website. I remember my first experiences with email and the other thing I used it for a great deal. was ironically buying books on Amazon. That was the first way I used it was to access a much older technology.

Yeah, it's definitely very interesting how the internet has revolutionized the way we get information. Previously, if you didn't know something, you'd have to look it up in a book or ask someone more senior and elderly to you. So it's really revolutionised in that department. Would you ever have assumed that the internet would grow to the size it is today? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. But I think everybody who was there at the beginning understood that this was probably a kind of epoch-making technology. I think even early doors, I think there was a widespread understanding that this would become ever more pervasive. and that certainly our lives are going to be transformed. And in actual fact, probably civilization in a kind of really fundamental sense was going to be changed. I think I did grasp that quite early.

Yeah, that's very interesting. Interestingly... the processing power of computers have increased one trillion. My goodness, wow. So, yeah, absolutely ridiculous. Hard to kind of comprehend how much that actually is. All right, moving on to Ollie, who will discuss...

9-11. Actually, yeah, going back to what you said earlier about one of your first uses of the internet to catch up on this kind of news, you lived through one of the most tragic events of the 21st century, which was September 11, 2001. For those that don't know, which I don't know, I don't know if anybody doesn't know what it is, but it was a horrific disaster that involved these Islamic terrorists or Islamic extremists led by Osama bin Laden.

hijacking four planes that were flying above the US and they crashed two of them into the world trade center and one to the pentagon and another one was actually meant to hit the white house but it got re-hijacked by the passengers and then they ended up crash landing it into a field but unfortunately everyone died but at least it didn't Hit the White House. And the event saw the deaths of 2,977 people on the ground and the 246 passengers of all four hijacked planes.

So with horrifying events like these, people tend to remember where they were when they first heard about these disasters. And this paradox is actually known as flashbulb memories. And these are remembered so vividly as the event is often repeated to others, repeated on news and also in history books. So, Mr. Wolsey, do you remember where you were?

when you first heard about the September 11th attacks and did you have any of these flashbulb memories? Yeah, I remember it really really clearly and as you asked me the question I can instantly put myself back to that place in time. So I was teaching a GCSE history. class in actual fact. I think it was a year 10 class. It was at Church's College in Petersfield. So, yeah, really, really clear memories of that ghastly day.

It's kind of going on from what you already said, but what was your initial reaction to 9-11? Yeah, I think it was twofold. Firstly, it was kind of a really human reaction. I think there was a great deal of bewilderment. In honesty, and I remember feeling really confused, clearly really shocked, really uneasy about what had happened. The footage coming out of New York City was really, really... upsetting. I remember feeling upset. I guess I also, at some level, maybe I'm imposing too much...

knowledge of what came subsequently upon this. But I think there was even then an understanding that this was the end of a particular era. It's interesting that you asked me earlier. about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism. And there's this kind of sweet spot in history, runs from the early 1990s.

through to the very early 2000s. The West at this point thinks that it's won the battle of history. There's not really a great deal of kind of geopolitical conflict that stands in the way at that point. of the realization of the liberal democratic dream. And in many ways, life was pretty comfortable in places like the UK through the 1990s.

The events of 2001 perhaps suggested that the status quo wouldn't endure and that global turbulence could reassert itself. And I think at some level we all would have grasped that. So just when the Wests sort of thought they were on top and they had won, they got hit with a big kind of wake-up call. Exactly that. So...

Going from a less kind of morbid and sad conversation, I also want to talk about AI. And you have a kind of... strong opinion on this with your assembly about chat gpt but it's it's improved vastly in the past five years and do you well we know you have opinions on it but like can you explain your opinions on the use of ai in more detail

Well, I don't think I can, and maybe that's exactly the point. The field is moving so incredibly quickly. I think it's really, really difficult for us to even think about how it's going to... change our lives over the next five years or so. Already it's having some impact within the world of education. We're having to rethink even very simple things like the way in which we set prep in this school. And that's just one example.

way in which we've yet, I think, to fully understand how to harness the good that can come from this technology and somehow countervail the bad. And that's not surprising. Most of us have been living with this in any kind of practical sense for the last... sort of eight or nine months. And it is. It's so epoch-making a change, it's going to take us a little bit more time to kind of really grasp what it might mean for all of us. So look, I understand that it's not going away.

And I understand that a great deal of good can come of it, but I think I'd urge everybody to just step back for a while. to reflect, to consider. And I think that if we do that, we'll be able to formulate the kind of policies that will regulate this world in a way that will be to the betterment of all of us. Okay, very nice. So lastly, before Jack takes it away with the final student questions.

One of the prides of the school are the mental health and pastoral programs. So how do you think mental health in students, not just in our school, but overall throughout the world, has improved or worsened since your childhood? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I guess one's first instinct is to say that life for young people has become more challenging. over the last 20 or 30 decades. That's my first impulse. But that isn't to suggest, I think, that when I look back at my school days...

That isn't to suggest that when I think about what my friends were doing and what they were saying to me, I think there were genuine mental health issues back then and they were pretty endemic. The point, though, is... we didn't understand that there were mental health issues. There were all sorts of issues that I think young people faced back then in terms of the way in which they could fit in to a society and a culture that was perhaps a good deal less forgiving.

than that which exists today. It was much less diverse. People were, I think, straightjacketed. They were tramlined in particular ways in which they ought to lead their lives. And if that didn't work for them... I think that created a genuine anxiety, but it was difficult to name it. It was difficult sometimes to recognize what that meant. So in that sense, perhaps mental health hasn't...

worsened in recent years, but the kind of issues that young people face, they've changed, and I think I understand and recognise that. So, you think our actual mental health has gotten worse and it's not just the awareness that has changed? As I say, I kind of hesitate. I think the kind of challenges that young people face today are unique to them. They're different to those which people say the 1980s or 1990s faced. Are they felt more acutely?

I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure they are. But I think that our language around these issues has improved immeasurably. And in that sense, we're able to understand. some of those negative experiences more clearly now, and that's clearly a positive thing. Yeah, because I feel me, as a young person living today, I think the...

Mental health itself of young people hasn't improved or gotten worse that much. It's just we've put a lot more attention to it and there's a lot more resources being put into helping that. Yeah, I'd agree with that. And as I say, I think that's a wholly positive development. I think an awful lot of people back when I grew up were suffering in silence and didn't really even understand that they were suffering. And that's really worrying. I don't think that that situation is likely to exist.

in 2023. And in terms of our ability to help young people cope with the inevitable stresses and strains of adolescence, we're in a much better situation. Nice.

All right, so now we are going to wrap up the podcast with Jack with his final student questions. So go, Jack. Yeah, on to the student questions. I think it's safe to say, Mr. Wolsey, you have one of the most incredible vocabularies. So how would you describe yourself in three words? Okay. I'm quite a reflective person. So that's my first word. I'm reflective. Number two.

I think other people may tell me that I'm completely wrong about this, but I think I'm quite a self-effacing kind of person as well. I hope you'll say that's just one word. It's a kind of hyphenated two words. And I'd probably also say that I can be... sometimes I fear a little bit kind of elliptical. So that would be my third word, elliptical. Well, there you go. That's very interesting. What motivates you as a headmaster and as a person?

I think two things motivate me. Number one, look, I'm a family man. I've got two children of my own. My family means the absolute world to me. So ultimately, my family provide me with the motivation to... make a positive difference through my life. I think the second thing that motivates me, of course, is my now near lifelong commitment to the world of education. So I'm a career teacher. I've been teaching now for over two decades.

I started when I was 24 years old. I'm 50 now. Look, the ability that I have to make a positive difference to the lives of young people is an extraordinary privilege. And my goodness, if that can't get me out of bed in the morning, I don't really know what could. Yeah definitely. Do you have any goals for the future?

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely do have a goal, two goals for the future. One, it's to stay healthy. I think health is such an important determinant of the quality of the lives that we lead. So that's a very personal goal. I want to stay healthy.

Secondly, of course, I have huge numbers of goals for Ipsot Place School. I think the school is in a really kind of positive place at the moment. All sorts of changes have happened in this school over the last few years. I want to embed those changes and build further on them. So I'm really ambitious for this school. Yeah, awesome. And what do you think the most important thing a teacher has taught you?

That's such a hard question. So it's got to be something that a teacher has taught me, you think? Or how about the most important thing you've taught somebody else? Oh, that gets even more difficult. I'm going to stick with something that a teacher has taught me, and I'm going to actually take it right back to the place in which we more or less started this interview. And I talked about the transformative impact of studying English literature.

when I was a sixth former. And that changed my life in so very many ways. So the most important thing that a teacher ever taught me was that books matter and novels and great literature matters a great deal because you... to the soul of other people. People are often dead, and that ability to link them to previous generations and to the development of human civilization over centuries, that realization changed my life.

life in so very many ways. So I think I'm going to say that's the most important thing that I was ever taught. Well, there you go. All right, on to Ollie. I think he's going to... Lovely. I actually have two questions that I just thought of while you're talking. So... First of which, do you play any video games? Because you know about rock games. But, you know, can you go into more detail about that?

When I was a teenager, I played a great number of video games. I sort of left that behind. So no, I don't play any video games at all. What about Rocket League? I thought you... Now you're catching me out. That could be a goal for 2024. My new year's ambition will become proficient in Rocket League. I like it. Okay. Also, one more. What is your favorite book series? Wow. That's an interesting one. I don't tend to read books in series. Sorry, that's a rather disappointing answer.

I don't think I... Well, I guess maybe book in plural. Oh, goodness. Sorry, singular, sorry. My favourite book... Yeah, I can do that. I love Harlot's Ghosts by Norman Mailer. That's probably my all-time favourite. So, book series. Yeah, you've caught me out on that one. I don't think I've got one. Really? I have a special book series that I really like. What is it? It's the Predator Cities one by Philip Reeve. The one that starts with Mortal Engines. I really like that one.

But I was very disappointed when the movie came out because it wasn't very good. The movie adaptation was terrible. Would you say this is the book series I need to acquaint myself with? Could this become my favourites? It could, it could. To be honest, I didn't actually like the first one. I thought it was a bit slow, but my favourite one in the series was the second one, which is Predator's Gold. That was probably my favourite. I shall look it up. Now, ending off.

How have you enjoyed your time on the show? I think it's been absolutely brilliant. I thank you so much for spending time with me. My first time in the podcast studio as an interviewee, and I'd love to do it again. Okay, lovely. So, goodbye, everybody. And I hope you have enjoyed listening as well. So, see ya. Bye-bye, everybody.