Hey, everyone, welcome back to bet your happy hour.
Joe and I'm Sarena and we are here today with Cat Cat and welcome back.
It's a happy hour.
Hey guys, happy to be just here.
You were just here.
But the show is officially aired, so now we can talk about that's gone down.
It's happening.
Huh, it's happening.
How overall, how are you feeling so far?
I mean much better that this time, like than I was before. It's you know, it's definitely just like more fun to watch, Like it's actually like a good show, Like it's just really it honestly, it's an entertaining not just with my situation, but like everyone's Like it's it's fun to see everyone's personalities like actually come through and you can just see it. It's been really fun.
Is it looking and feeling like you expected it to after filming?
Oh? I mean we had an idea, but nobody could have expected it to look this good, Like like the ring lights were really like doing their job, like it looks so good, and like the slow mo and like the little like white lotus like noises in the background, Like I'm like, wow, this is like elevated elevated because we had like some idea, but the creative is not top notch.
Is there anything so far that you've watched back that surprised you about any of anything like your castmates or anyone said or has done that You're like, oh, fuck, I didn't know that one down.
Oh yeah, actually a lot of things. Well, I mean I knew Brian was being toxic. I saw it from I talked it like day one, that he had that in inside him. Did I think he was taking it to the level that he was in the interviews? Absolutely not. I feel like that happens every year. We like see what people were saying in their internal dialogue, that a lot of things should probably stay inside your head, and
you know the Jeremy and Bailey stuff. I mean, I learned about that later, but like I still had no idea that it got to the extent that it was, or that their conversation was as heat as it was. I learned more about like how close people's relationships were prior. Like there's just a lot of things that you have a lot more private moments I think in this setting, so you don't really see everybody's like relationship playing out and people were still kind of keeping their cards close
to their chest at this time. So yeah, I think it was just I'm learning a lot.
Okay, let's go, let's let's let's cut to episode one. Day one. You're down there?
Sure who Dale isn't there yet? Who are you potentially interested in?
I mean, Day one for me was really just like getting the jitters out, feeling comfortable in this environment and learning who everybody was. Like I kept calling Spencer Sebastian like I could not get his name right, so now we have a running joke about it. But like it was more so just like feeling everyone's energy. I would say, like I had the most like banter with Jonathan, Like
we had like good like back and forth. So that was like fun, but like it wasn't that intense, like oh we're like people were actually just like pulling you to chat, like nobody cared, Like Kyle pulled me to talk, Jeremy pulled me to talk, like everyone was just kind of like making an effort to get to know everyone and go into like one on one conversations about it.
And then even the girls, we just all wanted to like learn about each other, and like I knew no one, So it was just kind of like a taking in everything at once.
Dale shows up and we interviewed Jonathan, and Jonathan said he was interested in you, and then Pal showed up and he kind of saw the way you reacted. I know, she was really excited, and then he's like, Okay, I I immediately checked out. Do you think is that true? And do you think he should.
Have kept pursuing you? Because that's that's how he That's what he said.
But it does seem like on the show it does look like he's still pursuing you.
I mean yeah, because I wouldn't say he checked out. Maybe he like wanted to. Okay, this is backstory. I knew no one going into this. I didn't know who was going to even potentially be there. Ricky told me like, oh, by the way, I have you heard of like Dale, like he might be coming here, And that was I think day one, and I was like, wait, that sounds familiar, and I was like, wait, he's an adult, Like he's like he's like a like a like an adult man.
And so I was like, oh my god, wait, that's really exciting if it's true, because like he could be someone I would actually be like super interested in So that's where the excitement came from because I was like, oh, okay, so that actually is happening. And at that point, no one was really like like I know Jonathan's he I
think he's like afraid to like make moves. So he was almost like giving friend zone bribes to everyone, and he was not being direct until Alex told him to be direct, and then he actually, I don't remember what day, it was, definitely up until this point, he had told me like, by the way, I'm interested in you, and I was like, okay, I'm like still vibing with you too, Like I just because I was excited about Dale doesn't mean that I'm not excited or like still interested to
pursue and like. But he was like I was surprised to like not see you in the kissing booth and stuff like that. And that was like a few days later, and I was like, oh, really now, because I wouldn't even if you wanted to kiss me. Why didn't she kiss me before? Like why didn't take a challenge? And that's kind of where I was at. I was like, well, these guys all had their chance first week. They didn't want to make it I'm not going to like kiss
them now, like that's weird. So yeah, because I want a man that like will not have to wait for someone to put us now. So that's why I was excited, because I was like, okay, like he is definitely someone I can see like more. And but at that point the guys, I was like maybe, but like I didn't know. I just didn't have like that clearer vision of that. Yes that makes sense.
Yeah, that clears things up. Okay, okay, so so Dale's down there is there is there a spark right away? I mean it seems like you guys really hit it off.
I think we just like felt like, okay, you get it. I get it, like you've been here before, like there was no one there that had been in this environment before besides.
Me, well Justin, but just there quite yet. Oh wait.
Yeah, but it was like that was platonic and he was like doing anything with Lexi.
But no, did Justin pull you to chat?
Mm hmm okay, but there was never a world where you and Justin were would have killed each other.
You have the same birthday. I can't date a Gemini man that has exact same birthday as me. That's crazy. University had handled that. No, but I think we just
like that was where I was coming from. I also just like kind of liked his like confidence and like just overall aura Like he wasn't like getting he was just he was clearly just like moving with however he wanted to move like throughout when he came in and I saw like Zoe initially pull him and like everybody get excited, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna see if he comes to me, like I'll be there, I'll be in conversation, but I'm not going to be like
all over because that's just like not really how I am anymore. And so but then once we like started talking, I mean immediately was like okay, yeah, like we can like we can kick it. It's like there was no awkward like moments or anything like that. We got deep really fast and felt comfortable doing so Okay.
So now you're you're kind of I don't want to say, well, are you locked in at this point?
Like, well, let's talk about your date first with Neil.
How the day go date was great? Yes, I got sick no, I and I know.
I would have got sick to I mean that would have been the worst I knew.
I knew off rip. He even knew that I knew, like like I took a Zo Friend, which is an anti Najamed prescription based I was eating my ginger tablets and I had a drummine in my system, but sitting backwards, it was a wrap. But it's I did not like I kept it so cool, like I was like trying to keep it together. So he actually like did not know how unwell I was until I couldn't take it anymore because I know people are like, why didn't he
like do anything. I like truly didn't say anything until I was like, okay, we've had our conversations, like I need to take a break, and that's when I was like, let me flip around and just like see the horizon. But I didn't want to like interrupt our conversations by like being like, hey, I can't, like I'm about to throw up in my mouth. So it was like that's what it was, but overall so much fun. We just
got really deeply fastic. We connected about like both being engaged in that place and having like our own situations post show with the world, and it just felt like someone I could like really like understands that unique experience that you don't really find here as often. So we just really connected. I think, like on that level for sure.
Is there another man from veter Nation that could come down that you would be interested in at this point? Like was there anyone else you were hoping to see down there?
I'm I Joe. I literally didn't know anyone like I was thinking they were going to bring in like I mean, yeah, they brought in like someone that I had never heard of or something like I don't know or like I mean I judge people, but then they come in there completely different. So and I have really been so apart from the Bachelor world up until that point for like two years, so I really didn't really even know who was like a possibility. But I will say, like it
was obviously day two. I didn't want him to feel like just because we went on a date, he has to like stay loyal to me in any capacity, like I told him, like keep having conversations with girls, like get to know people. I was going to go back and still talk to Jonathan, like we had this great moment and like if but you use that moment almost to like if you're still thinking about that while you're
talking to other people. Then that says more. And I just never wanted him to feel like he was confined because I know his first experience was limited. So I don't think any of us were locked in yet.
So you guys, you guys are still open. And then Dale is also I don't know, I wouldn't say pursuing, but there's these having conversations with Ali Joe and are you aware of that.
At the time?
Okay, so that's week two. I was after the first Frost ceremony. I knew girls were coming in. I knew he was going to be a hot commodity like Hughsdale. I had a feeling that maybe like that was going to be one of the girls that she was interested, Like, I mean it's Dale, Like I figured every girl's going
to come in and be interested. Did I know the extent. No, But I also wasn't pressing, like I wasn't like like trying to get like if he wanted to tell me, he would And that was still early and I didn't want it to feel like he had any obligation to. We did talk about like transparency. That was like one of our first things, like that was our foundation was to make sure that we are just completely open about how we're feeling and what's happening, because these are people
that are literally living next door to us. And last one is to find out stuff from watching it back or you know, hearing about it from someone else. You want to come from this person who've been creating a connection with. So but at the same time, like the intimate things, I feel like I wasn't really pressing at that moment because it was still so early.
Got it? Okay, So now we're going to cut to this week's episode.
Yeah, from we do did you.
Know because we're about to get into you know, the Ali Joe kiss of it all before we go there. Yeah, you know that Dale kissed Zoe in the kiss challenge?
Oh yeah, I knew all the kissed. He told me about all the girls he kissed.
Okay, so after the kissing challenge, you guys did debrief.
Yeah, I knew all the girls who kissed in there. Yeah, Okay, I was doing the math, like while the girls were going I had like a way of figuring it out. Okay, So I knew that he kissed like all four of them. Yeah, in the kissing challenge. But then I was, so you're interested in her?
Okay, that's fine, right because it was you, Zoe, Ali, Joe, and then I believe Alex. Yes, yes, okay did that because we didn't really see a lot of aftermath from the kissing challenge? Did that cause any rifts or were you like okay, I'm like, I'm just clocking that, Like that's where you're at right now.
I told literally all the girls, I said, you should all put down like you all guys should all kiss in Like why not? He's so hot like I would. Yeah, I was here for it. I mean, what did I think he was going to do all that? I don't know, but I feel pretty confident in my kissing.
Any part of you want to explore, I kissed with Jonathan.
In that change.
Did you kiss anyone else or just Dale?
No? I just kissed Dale. I thought about it. But like I said, I like those guys had already been there for a week with me, so like you wanted to make a move, you absolutely could have had the chance. Like we've had many converts like one on ones that probably didn't have the reason to be aired. So like if they are not going to I'm not going to be with somebody that it takes that moment to be put forced together to see if there's chemistry. Yeah, so
that was just where I was coming from. And yeah, I just didn't think it was necessary.
Did the kissing challenge with Dale spark any insecurities about his potential connections with other women?
Or were you good about where you're at?
I felt really good at that moment because like he told me we were solid, So I was like, okay, so you couldn't do your thing. But I guess maybe I was last and like, you know, no, I don't know, And yeah, he said we were solid, so I was like, Okay, we're good. But I also was like if we're not, like I'll be like it's fine. It's like I just met esterday.
Are you still like him telling you you guys are solid? But in your head, are you still somewhat open to like pursuing Jonathan or if someone else comes down or that.
I feel like you kind of have to be like I am someone that's I have. I feel like you like in that space, you kind of have to like be still open because that's the point is to like see where your emotions go. But I definitely had my strongest like feelings and like I would say, like formed foundation with Dale, Like we had spent we got back from the date, we spent the whole night together, like we spent the whole morning together, Like we're kind of
we were kind of like attached at the hips. So even though we've kind of sparked off and talked to people, like we all, we kept coming back to each other. So I felt like that was like a good We were definitely connected the most.
Got it?
Okay, So then in this episode, you and Dale are having a conversation and you asked him did you kiss Ellie Joe outside of the challenge? And he says yes, And then you guys get into a little back and forth where you said, you know, I thought we were going to be transparent, why didn't you tell me this? And he was like, this wasn't a big deal. It wasn't even on my mind. So kind of just like run.
Us through what the issue was with that.
Everything there in that first conversation, Yeah.
The first one, the first one on.
You're like sitting on the beach, it's daytime.
You know. I asked that question and I did not expect that response. I so I was just first taken it back by being like, oh, okay, I.
Wouldn't think he kissed Sally Joe when you asked, you thought that was going to be.
No, right because why have why have all these hours gone by that that was not said, you know, and so I.
Would have kissed if you would have kissed Jonathan, of course you would have let him know.
At this point, well, we said we met it, we set the foundation that transper like literally our connection is the strongest, so like if that changes or if like that was like a conversation we had. Okay, I think that was initially the night that Ali Joe went on the date, so it was like the night of the kissing challenge because that's when we debriefed everything and really moving forward, like let's just make sure that we're honest about everything. Like this environment's already a lot for both
of us. So for that precedent to be set and then not met, I'm like, okay, what and also just as who I am, like hey, by the way, because we're all around each other, and again I'd rather come from us than someone else because then I can get misunderstood. And so anyways, I was just like, oh okay, so that was like not what we talked about, and I just kind of like took it in and kind of let him just talk. I think, if I can remember correctly,
that was like where my mind was going. And I was just like like absorbing, but also like frustrated obviously because that was like just not where I thought it was going to be. But it wasn't. Again, it was it wasn't about the kiss. It was like, so what else is it that I don't know? Like what else has happened that I'm not being And then that's like where my mind started going.
Right, Like you're feeling like if I hadn't asked this, I might not have known, So like what other questions do I need to be asking to make sure I'm getting all the information right?
It's like more like that you said you were going to do something and didn't stand on it, like didn't do it. Like now I'm like all my little trust issues are being like starting to get you know, alarm alarmed at the moment, But I knew I needed to sit with it before I like really responded, because I didn't want to come from a place of like just you know, triggers and alarms.
Is there anything that he could have said in that first conversation that would have.
Brought some closure to the situation, like maybe.
Not using the word debdited as often as he did, because that to me, like I get it, but it was like so like non serious, and like to me that moment was like serious. So it was like please use a different term, and it was making me go crazy. I think all I wanted. I don't because I hope I was able to communicate at the time, Like it's but you know the issue with like the lack of communication that was done.
That's that's how it comes across.
It doesn't come across. It doesn't come across like you're upset about the kiss. It comes across that you're upset that he didn't tell you.
And all I needed to hear in that moment probably was like, Okay, I see that. I know that I sat that and like are we set that? And I didn't live up to it? And I can understand why that.
Can you know, bring up some things for you and like moving forward, I'll be more mindful and maybe giving some perspective of the situation, like but not from a place of like you have to like give perspective, but also like acknowledge that what I'm feeling is not like just because it's not a big deal to you, to mean that's not going to hurt my little sensitive heart.
Yeah.
So yeah, I just think if he just acknowledged that, then we wouldn't have had to have the same conversation that we had later or that was also what I was seeking.
So yeah, and by dead ad it it seems that he's essentially saying, like I ended things with Ali Joe, like I told her there's nothing there, so like there's not an issue issue over but it didn't seem like.
That was actually your concern.
It was not you guys were just not like lining up on the communication.
Yeah, the communication was like not there. We were like
speaking a different language to each other almost. Yeah. I just think that like it was he was like doing with the classic like guy like logic where they like want to like talk about the actual situation, but in doing so, like are like the women like just want to be like I'm heard and I'm seen and like I'm okay and I'm safe, And when they get so fixated like intellectually on the situation, it completely like you lose the picture like it didn't need to get there.
It could have been like squashed, but it was. I was trying to say that, but I think even the more I was saying that, it just kept going like this, like over and over, and then I was feeling more unheard. And up until that point, like we I have trust issues going to this environment. I've been open about it. I've been honest about it. Who wouldn't. I'm sure he does too. I don't think we understood enough about each other's triggers. So I think we were kind of like
hitting old wounds on one another without even realizing. And that's like the place that we were coming from, and that's why there was such a misalignment.
Yeah, And in the second conversation that you guys have before in the Row ceremony, he seems very fixated on the timing of the conversation.
He's really upset that.
You've brought this up before a Row ceremony, and he wishes that you'd waited, like done it earlier or later. As a viewer, it's not totally clear like why that timing is so uncomfortable for him.
Can you maybe shed some light on that?
Oh? Yeah, I don't know, I still don't fully understand it. I think what he I mean, maybe it was the fact that he's like, well, time has gone by, I thought it was over. Maybe he felt anxiety about it being real ceremony night and he didn't want it to be a thing on a night that was already stressful, and I should have been like more like cautious of that, but like for me, I'm thinking, like, I don't even know. It has nothing to do about that.
Like it was real quick. Was Dale ever under the impression that you knew that he had kissed Elie Joe? Okay, so okay, that would that would be how.
The timing thing would maybe make sense in my mind where it's like you knew this information, you held it for a few days, and then you brought it up before the role ceremony, where he's like, why wouldn't you bring it up?
But you'd clearly found out off morning?
Okay?
Yeah, basically in his perspective, So that morning I find out and then we still go about the day, but I'm still like I'm talking about Jonathan talking about with my girls. I'm like still like making sense of it. So I was like, I think he thought the conversation was over in the morning, and so I said, I know that, like I had to stay with it for
a second. And now this has come up, and like initially I wanted it to be like a moment that brought us together, like, hey, these are my triggers, Like if you say you're gonna do something and you don't do it, it really hits old wounds of like people that can't be trusted. And this is already like tough enough to we don't know each other yet, so like that's really like I wanted it to be a moment that we can understand each other better. And instead of I was not like coming down on him for it.
I really just wanted I didn't feel like he fully understood me the first time, and that still needed to be addressed. Also, I doing those things you learn about people's communication styles and what they can handle and how you guys come to agreements of things, and I still needed to get a better assessment of that, and that was my time to do it. Time is limited. I wasn't ready to have the conversation fully ex didn't really fully understand where my emotions were at, and that I
expressed that to him. I don't think he heard it, because I think he was in such a defense mode that a lot of the things I said went right over his head and he was just like focused on making sure that I understood that it was deaded.
I guess, Okay, so why why did you give him your ros?
I mean, I feel like I'm not afraid of conflict, you know, like's I feel like, if anything, it's like I saw it as like a turning point to like help me understand how we can still move through things, like we're all making choices in real time with like limited information. And I still felt like we had enough built up until that point where we could just be having like a hard moment and we're going to keep
going from there. Like people have hard moments, couples have hard moments, and I'm not just going to run when we have like not the best discussion. And I still had like I you know, I just I don't know, It's not like I'm like, Okay, we have a hard time. I'm like done.
I mean I think it was.
Yeah, I think that was yeah, Like we had built so much up into that point. I'm not just going to walk away from it, and there wasn't like, really, I wasn't interested in starting fresh with anyone.
Else At any point were you seriously considering not giving him your rose? And do you think Dale was like I feel like I'm in jeopardy now.
I mean, he did say some shit right for the rose ceremony that I was like, interesting, But.
What did he say?
I think that was when he first said the background thing okay, and so that was like, oh, is this where this is going? And I was like, oh, I don't know if I like that very much, but I still had curiosity. I don't think I was ever like fully fully committed to or at all to walking away from that relationship yet at all. Yeah, No, that was he was always going to be. I knew that it was we were going to continue on, and I felt
like I was giving assurance. Like I don't think I don't know why he would ever feel like he was in jeopardy like of that. I understand how like may have with the Jonathan stuff, but like if you feel like we're like as solid as you say, like you know that, like this is just a hard conversation and like even though it's on a rose ceremony night, like that doesn't change anything it's just just the limited time that we have.
Yeah, can you tell us more about the Jonathan stuff. Our conversation with him, He described it as more of just like you guys were friends and he was just wanted to be there to comfort you. But where it does kind of look like he's maybe interested in seeing if there's some wiggle room to get rose and to explore a relationship.
I thought it was friendship. I thought it was friend like when he sat down with me, like, you know, it was funny, like I was, like, it was just it was actually like cinematic communic timing. I literally said, well, I like floting with Jonathan and I'm just like flirt with him the rest of the night and walks right over like that was like real that actually happened, And so it was just comedic timing. But I think he really was coming for a place of just trying to
check in on like me as a friend. Like it wasn't like he wasn't trying to like swoop in at least the way I was seeing it.
HM.
Okay, so you guys have kind of developed like a genuine friendship at this point, and it's from a pass of support.
And I had I had definitely asked like I was getting a guard from him earlier and like talking through my emotions and so but friends flirt, so maybe not usually, but but at the time it was still like, yeah, you know, you good advancer. But overall now I don't think it was ever like gonna be romantic. And I think you do that.
Okay, so you give you give dall your rose, and you guys will smile, kiss, happy yay. And then right after you guys get back.
Into I think you made a joke about situation.
You kind of tried to make like what happened it felt like for you like I had kind of remember.
I remember that vivid, vividly so funny. I'm like, okay, he's not saying any words like I'm gonna like I'll do it, and I'm like, let me make a joke and maybe he'll it'll light in the mood and he'll realize like we're good, like we're just gonna pick it up later things are. I could just see it in his face, and uh.
I'm assuming for you, like you guys will be having more conversations about this, but just right now it's not done.
But like, let's try to lighten up, Let's.
Have a good night, let's go to bed, like not upset. So I make the little joke and I'm like, oh, that that didn't land. I guess you hated that, and uh that opened up the conversation. But at that point I was actually like, first of all, you're supposed to laugh when I make a joke, so that's annoying. Second of all, why are we still talking about this? Like what do you mean? Like do you not understand that we could just like move on tomorrow like you said?
But like also like why are we going back and forth at the same thing. I just feel like we were talking about the same thing. And I definitely felt like I got more frustrated there because I'm like, I just we're I gave you my rose, We're moving on, Like what's what is the problem, Like, let's not be so like hostile with each other. We can still have the conversation. But I felt hostility and like almost like he was like, yeah, like shutting me out. And I didn't like that very much.
Well, I was it was frustrating the watch because you guys are not in a place where you're having this this argument, but you're not communicating like both of you are on like two different like you're saying one thing he's saying and nothing. And it's like there's no way with the way that you're going you guys are going about this, you're not going to find a solution.
Yeah, because the conversation got worse and worse because the emotions just got heightened and heightened, and you had simmered down like faster than he had, and it just kind of like reignited for that last I think.
I remever that high. I think I stayed you.
Yeah, you didn't ever seem that he did.
But I also noticed that he was so like when I noticed that he was getting worked up, I really was like, okay, I need to stay here because if I match him, then this is going to go through the roof. And I kind of wanted him to pick up my energy to like we're okay, we're safe, We're okay, we're safe, Like we can just have this conversation. It just like didn't At that point. I think I was starting to climb too, because I'm like, this is like insane,
like why are we still tapping this conversation? Why can't we meet? I looking back, I realized like there was no way we did. We were literally speaking a different language.
Like actually, so going to bed that night, how are you feeling?
Oh? I was really sad that night he said that comment about the background, and it was so like as I was walking away that I was just that I think all the emotions came at once, and like all my fears of like judgment and everything just like hit me. And not just that, but like I was really afraid to get back into a relationship that might be unhealthy, and like right now the way we're communicating was pretty unhealthy.
And so it wasn't just like a throway comment, like it hit pretty deeper, honestly, deeper than I thought it was going to. But it just like brought up the misunderstooding fear like judgment like for just who I am. And then I'm like, well, it works really hard to show up this way, like to be fully self. And then so when someone that I care about is like implying that our differences might be a problem, it just makes me like question, like, Okay, maybe I'm too much,
like maybe I shouldn't or anything. Am I like enough? And that kind of like burbage like language that he used, like even if it wasn't meant to be hurtful, just poked at like some really hard wounds that I went to bed with that night, and like I truly was like, Okay, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I should have never came here, Like I had a whole crash out because I tried to do the right thing.
I tried to bring up the things and like say as calm as possible, but and then I felt like because it wasn't perfect that and I was like, what do you know about my background? Because I don't come from the best background, Like I actually have had a lot of things. Do you know about that? And you're using it against me? Like what or do you think that I come from this like perfect life? And now it's you know, I don't know. I just didn't understand it. So I created my own narrative of it.
Yeah it was.
And then I was like I just I didn't know what was going to happen when I woke up, Like I was like really contemplating just like giving up, yeah, just being drama.
You know, we we we'll see what happens. Because this is basically the end of the episode or like the end of your story, we see of you and d Also, we're excited to keep watching. I hope you guys work it out, but you never know. Kat, thanks so much for taking the time and coming on the podcast.
Thanks for having me. This has been such a better experience overall. I would say it's been so fun.
So far, so good. We're happy for you.
Thanks, guys, this has been great. Thanks for having.
Me, of course, and to all our listeners, thank you for tuning in the Batchler Happy Hour. Make sure you download and subscribe to the podcast.
Keep watching Bachelor in Paradise, and thanks for listening to Bachelor Happy Hour. We have new expecive interviews every single week.
Bye.