What is up everyone ? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense podcast . On today's episode I have my good friend Ivy back where we are talking about misconceptions of a nurse practitioner . I don't really talk about my job field that much . I know we've kind of done this healthcare series here lately and I really enjoy doing it .
So today we were just like let's just talk about the misconceptions of becoming a nurse practitioner and once you are a nurse practitioner , so we talk about everything from education to comparison to salaries . If there was a misconception out there , we tried to cover it . But I do want to just say this is from our own personal experience and our own opinions .
This is not to say this is everyone's experience or what they deal with in their day-to-day practice or lives . So just keep that in mind when you listen . So just listen with an open mind . But yeah , we're just going to dive on in and get started . I know that this week I said that we were going to talk about ghosting .
However , that inspiration has come and gone . Maybe when the inspiration hits me again we'll do that episode . But for the past several weeks I've kind of talked about , like , my experience in health care and , for some reason those episodes are doing really well . Y'all seem to like those episodes and I keep getting more questions about it .
So that's also interesting to me , because that's initially what I was going to do the podcast about , but then I shied away from it . So so hindsight's 20-20 . But I have Ivy back with us today , hi , and we want to talk about misconceptions about nurse practitioners . We're both nurse practitioners . I don't talk about that a lot on this podcast .
I'm not 100% sure why . If I feel like it's like boasting or if I'm just trying to protect a little privacy about my life . I don't know . I know I say I'm a nurse a lot . I typically say that when people ask me what I do , or even on dating apps , I'll just be like I'm just a nurse . You know , I don't know . I don't know why I do that .
I don't know why I shy away from it because you would think like one would be so proud of the education and stuff . I don't know if that's a childhood trauma thing . I don't know . That's a question for my therapist . I don't know .
But we kind of just want to get into some misconceptions , but before we do that , obviously a little bit of background from both of us . I know I mentioned a little bit of why I got into nursing . But , ivy , why did you get into nursing ?
I honestly don't know . It seemed like a good idea at the time . You know I was out of the Navy , needed good idea at the time . You know I was out of the Navy , needed a career path . It seemed very prestigious .
And , like you know , of course people think about money . What age did you decide , like that's the career path you wanted to go down ?
What late 20s in college ?
Well , see that , and to me that's awesome Because , like , that shows that you don't have to have it figured out in high school , like when everybody's like you got to get , you got to figure it out , you got to , you got to get your career together , you got to know .
So that kind of is inspiring to some people that may be listening , like , I think , at any point in your life , like I have . I have a friend , um , that is also a nurse , nurse practitioner .
She had been doing it for gosh years 20 something years and she decided after , like during COVID , she was like I don't want to do this anymore and she's a whole ass engineer . Now what ? Yeah , she was like I don't want to do this anymore and she went back to school and I commend her .
Yeah , she gives no f's about , like , going back to school , she doesn't care what people think about her , she doesn't care how many times she changes her mind , and I love it . I think it's so empowering . Number one she's paying for her own schooling yeah , so who cares ?
right , who cares ?
so I just , I love that for . But yeah , she's got three whole ass degrees , probably even more , who knows .
That's amazing .
So you decided , like , after you got out of the , how long were you in the Navy ? Speaking of Only four , four years .
Yeah . So that's like maybe what early-ish twenties and then you go , you know undergrad and whatever , and the nursing student you know it always seemed so I keep going back to prestigious .
It seemed . So I keep going back to prestigious . It seemed prestigious . It's not the microphone , it's you . So , ivy can , how close do I need to be to this ? You have to be like almost your lips touching the mic . Oh my god , guys we were having issues earlier and we were in the podcast and then the echo , I was like , well , let me change the mic .
And Ivy was like let's just restart . And I was like I don't want to restart , it's like we were on such a good roll . And then , of course , I switch out the mics and like she's like , oh , it sounds better . And then she keeps backing up , backing up , backing up my lips are on the fucking thing yeah , pretty much . That's how it has to be .
I guess I haven't done it in a while . Yeah , but literally like I'm , it's like a big microphone wiener in my face . Oh my god , I cannot with you anyways can't .
Oh great , I just dropped my phone . It has all my on it .
Guys , we are not together this morning nope anyways , I kind of mentioned on a couple weeks ago like why I decided to get into nursing and , um , I hadn't always wanted to be in nursing , like when I remember like in elementary school and junior high school not junior high because that's too old , but like in elementary school I would like just play , make believe
in my room by myself like I was teaching a bunch of okay , this is embarrassing , this , this thought . So it wasn't just any kind of teacher that I wanted to be . I wanted to be a music teacher , someone who cannot carry a tune to save her life . Anyways , yeah , I did .
I wanted to be a teacher , which I know is comical because it takes a lot of patience , but I had a lot of patience back in the day . Okay , my patience has worn thin through childhood trauma and through my experience as a nurse .
That is why I have no patience at the ripe old age of 37 it's gone anyways , in high school we had um a teacher that was I'm from a small town and the teacher was my friend's dad , who was a nurse , and I he always talked very highly of his career and so he um had the opportunity to take us from high school to a nursing home and we got to like help
um , you know , just kind of be like techs , I guess , like pass blankets , help bathe patients , whatever . And there was this one guy in there that really was so mean to everybody .
He had like verbal issues but look , looking back , maybe he had a stroke or something and he just couldn't articulate the way he wanted to , which would make someone angry , and he would always throw things at the nurses . And the nurses were like , don't even bother with his room , don't go in there . And what did my little brain think ?
Challenge , challenge , accepted , which is what I do in my dating life , apparently . So that's where it comes from . Another thing I should talk about in therapy .
But yeah , and then he ended up really liking me , like we , like I felt like we could sit there and talk to him , like , even though I know he couldn't talk back like he , I think he just appreciated someone taking the time to sit with him and my little feeble brain thought that's what nursing was like .
Oh , you get to sit , you get to like love on people , you get to show them that you care and compassion , which is what nursing should be right . It should , yes , but that's not what it is .
It wrings out your soul .
It does . And then , fortunately , also because I'm from Tennessee and I had a nurse practitioner as my quote unquote doctor when I was in high school and she was just the best . She listened , she cared . She as my quote unquote doctor when I was in high school and she was just the best Like she listened , she cared , she spent time .
And so I just in high school was like , okay , I want to be a nurse . Oh , you can go further in your career . Oh , I want to be a nurse practitioner . And then that's when that love for it .
So I'd always wanted to do that Number one , probably because I wanted to get out of the small town and I knew you had to go to college to do that , because it was either factory work or , you know , working at Walmart . Nothing wrong with that career , but I just wanted more , I wanted to get out . So I always wanted to do that from a very young age .
So when did you decide since you decided very late in your career , when did you decide to transition from being a nurse to becoming a nurse practitioner ?
Like immediately , and I know that you know this is very taboo because it's frowned upon , you know , because we'll get into this , I think , later , but the whole role of the nurse practitioner is based on prior experience . But for myself and maybe my vision is cloudy or I have rose-colored glasses on , but I think I've done well .
I went immediately from graduation undergrad to np school and we will get into that on under under the first misconception . So let's just get into the um before I get into the misconceptions . Like what made you decide even though you didn't have experience like which ? I guess that's where my brain can't are like understand , because we have different experiences .
I don't under like how did you know you wanted to be a nurse practitioner without having the experience as a nurse first ?
they just to me . They were so like even more prestigious than nursing . You know I was like , oh wow , this is how you can take care of people you know truly like , so I don't know their knowledge base .
Interesting that you say that , because well , and you wouldn't have this feeling because you you didn't do nursing , which I mean I'm sure you worked as a nurse while you were in school .
I did , yes , so like for me , because I was a nurse for five years before I was a nurse practitioner , I had a really hard time adjusting from being a nurse to being a nurse practitioner because in my mind , I felt like I actually wasn't helping the patient Because I wasn't the hands on , I wasn't starting the IVs , I wasn't taking them upstairs , I wasn't
getting them to CAT scan very fast , I wasn't performing CPR . So in my mind , because I wasn't doing the physical work , I'm not doing anything for this patient . It took me a good six to eight months to realize you are still helping this patient by the knowledge that you have . But it was really hard transition for me .
That makes sense . I think , like we all probably have imposter syndrome , but maybe mine was a no . It wasn't easy to get over . Honestly , I make probably because of the experience I got getting immediately into the hospitalist group .
So you know like the knowledge base is insane , like oh yeah , that's a whole different and , before we get into these misconceptions , I forgot to say in the intro like we're coming from a state that is a collaborative state . It's a deep south state .
We're also a state that is very far behind on everything everything like where it be , whether it be politics , healthcare , whatever we kind of women's rights .
Maternal fetal death rates .
Stop , we're not getting into that . That's not the podcast for it .
Poverty .
You're about to get kicked off . The podcast is what you're about to do , but we are . We're just behind , for whatever reason , on a lot of things . So when we talk about this experience , just kind of keep that in the back of your mind . We're not in an independent state , we're not a Midwestern state or a what's a progressive .
Would it be a ?
progressive state . So the first misconception we're going to kind of talk about is nurse practitioners quote unquote are want to be doctors . So how do you feel about that statement ? My blood pressure has risen . Nurse practitioners quote unquote are want to be doctors . So , um , how do you feel about that statement ?
My blood pressure has risen . Why ? To peak levels ? It makes me maybe sad is a very elementary word for that but I it just feels like people don't know what nurse practitioners bring to the medical table . Um , and that we compliment maybe physician practice , especially when we're taught well no , I agree , and I think that they're .
This is just my own personal experience . Okay , just stop worrying about the microphone . I'm sorry , okay maybe .
Okay , that's better it's just it's .
If it's gonna echo , it's gonna echo . We can't control it so okay , I'm sorry guys , the mic from ivy's side might be echoing . I'm not sure if it's an equipment malfunction or what but we've been trying to fix it for like 3045 minutes , but it may just echo .
So I do think and this is my personal opinion and I know we differ on this opinion and I think , and I truly now like sitting down talking about it I think the reason why we have a difference of opinion is because you went straight through school when I did not .
And so I do think because and I've , we went you went to UAH , correct , we also had the same schooling , yeah , and I feel like there is a gap in the knowledge that we're taught . I feel like NP school is very you have to be self-motivated to learn .
I think that there's a lot of schools and I'm not saying just the school we went to I think there's a lot of schools that they want a passing rate , so they allow passing when certain people shouldn't pass , especially in such a field that you shouldn't .
Yeah , that's true , like there should be no room for stupidity , error , dumb , dumbness , I don't know like it's , it's tough right and so and like because I know , and when you're in doc , like when you're becoming a medical doctor , there's not any like , if you fail , you fail . Like there's not any room for that .
And when we're compared to physician's assistants , which are usually what we're compared to because it's similar , I do think their schooling is more in depth to the pathophysiology , the biology behind things . No , they don't have the nursing side of it that we do . It's a very different learning , so our brains operate in a different way that they do .
But when you look at their schooling , it is more in depth . Like they can't even work during school . Yeah , like it's more . It's more along the medical model , where ours is . On the nursing model . It is , and there is no challenging that . That's just facts . That's what it is .
And again , in any career whether you're finance , business , teacher , nursing , nurse , practitioner , physician's assistant , doctor there are going to be levels of people's education based on the personal driven factor . Like do you want to learn ?
Some people are just naturally smarter , some people have higher IQ , some people struggle , some people need the experience to learn , some people don't . You're one of those people I would put in a high category , just along my friend Brandy , y'all don't need that experience to learn .
I think that when you learn something , you're very self-motivated and it just clicks with you . My friend Abby's like that too . When you hear something , you're like , oh , that makes sense For me . It wasn't like that For me .
I needed the experience because I struggled in nursing school , like I , like we said I don't think we said it on this podcast , but when we were recording earlier when I was in high school , like my teachers begged me to go into engineering or math because I excelled in math , I actually struggled in my science classes because my brain works in a linear fashion
like this rule , this rule , this rule here's answer . It's always going to be the answer . My brain doesn't work in a gray area where it's like all these roadmaps can lead to a different outcome , but all the answers are correct . Yeah , so I struggled with that , even though I did so good in high school when I got into nursing school .
It was a struggle for me , whereas for you I feel like your brain operates in that fashion , like you can see the bigger picture , I guess .
Maybe that's it . But then there's really the difference , I think too , between nursing and nurse practitioner is that you get that , maybe that medical piece where you get to be a problem solver more so .
Critical thinking .
Yes .
Well , you do , and that's where I've seen some practitioners go straight through from RN , BSN to MP school and they do not do well . I've seen that . Then there's people like you who do very well . So it's always on the end of the spectrum and that's fine . That's completely fine . But where the misconception about want to be doctors ?
I've never wanted to be a doctor ever . I don't want the responsibility of a . I've never wanted to be a doctor ever . I don't want the responsibility of a doctor . I think that they're very smart . I take nothing away from them . Yeah , I want to learn from them . I want to pick your brain . I want to understand why you're ordering something a certain way .
I want it to be a collaborative thing , Like I'm here to help you . I'm here to make your life easier . That's just my perception of it .
Okay , I can see that . So it's multi-layered for me because , like it , there's a little bit of that that feels like an assistant and I know you're not meaning it to feel like that , but okay . So , yes , I agree with the collaborative nature up to a certain point .
Like I believe that maybe after , let's say , 10 years of collaborative practice or five dependent right , it's all well , that's , that's I , and I know where you're going with that .
It's very hard to say a year , because again , we're not all at the same education level no and we're all don't practice . I personally do not want to practice independently . I know you do , I know you can do that . I personally don't practice . I personally do not want to practice independently . I know you do . I know you can do that . I personally don't .
I want to have a doctor there to ask questions .
Yeah .
That's just my personal preference and it's , and I don't think either preference is wrong .
No , it's not Absolutely . And then like , although you know I felt that way , um , I think in the hospital , but , um , this outpatient journey that I'm on for just a smidge over a year , um , it's kicking my ass . And you know like I'm good collaborating right now .
You know not to say that , um , I'll ever think that , oh , I'm too big for my britches or I can do this independently . I'm starting to see things through a different lens .
Well , and I I see it that way in general because , like number one , I worked in an emergency room , right , so my whole experience was very critical patients .
Yeah .
And I'm not saying that nurse practitioners cannot take care of critical patients because our licensure allows that , because if you're in an independent state which my friend worked in an independent state in the ER she was doing everything , yeah . So again it goes back to your training , the knowledge that you have , the self motivation that you have .
But me personally , I like that collaboration because to me that scares the shit out of me and it should .
Yeah , absolutely . There should be a healthy lover of fear , no matter what I think , even if you have 20 plus years of experience . There is , there should be fear .
And and I'm not saying like I practice quote-unquote independently with my patients , but I still have the collaboration with my doctor in the job that I do now , like I still see my patients independently , but if I run into any kind of trouble , he is there to answer my questions and I just personally feel comforted by that because I don't want to make a mistake
. This is not just someone's account , bank account , yeah really this is someone's life and like their loved one's life . So what ? The misconception to me is that a lot of times and I think this comes from the medical doctor's side of things yeah , like when they're old school and I've had doctors tell me this y'all just want to replace us .
Well , personally , I don't . Personally , I want to help , I want to learn from you , I want to be able to take some of the burden off of you and I want to collaborate with you . That's how I think it's misconceived sometimes .
Absolutely . I believe , yes , we were seen and still probably are , as , like , competition and not compliment Correct , but we are supposed to be .
There's like bajillions of patients and there's plenty to see out there and you're right like it can be a great collaborative relationship where , like , yeah , we take great care of our patients , they take great care of their patients . I think , though , a lot of this hate is fueled online .
I made the mistake we're going off on a tangent here , um of getting on a um like reddit thread yeah , I don't do reddit and it is oh my god , I think my blood pressure skyrocketed the hate and the vitriol out there from I think it's called it's like a resident reddit and it's called our nocturne because they there are people online that like um , call nps
nocturs , which means not doctor , um , and it's so hateful and disgusting I can't like I'm getting flustered even you know , because like they probably have never worked with us or maybe they've worked with . I can't speak for that right . We can only worry about ourselves and the physicians we work with . But that side note tangent , is it ?
it's , it's horrible it is and , like I think , again , we can't speak for everyone . We don't know what their experience was . Because I've had some terrible experiences with some not so great residents and I and that could cloud my judgment to say all residents are idiots , you know , and that would cloud a judgment based on the experience that I've had .
Right , yes , so I .
That's why I like I don't understand the forum is because , like , speaking , okay , for example , I worked with a doctor in the ER that his wife was a nurse and you know he has children that are all female and initially , when the nurse practitioners were getting a larger role in the ER , he had a hard time adjusting to that because he had been a doctor for
years and he had that mindset that you know we were coming after their jobs , which I kind of understand . You think about it like , kind of like it's no different than when nursing a lot of , a lot of RNs are now going back to NP school . You have that fear of like these new people are coming for my job . So I can understand that .
But where him and I disagreed was I've never thought I wanted to be a doctor , otherwise I would have just went to medical school . Like I want to help , I want to learn , but I don't want the full responsibility that a doctor has . I just don't . That's a lot of responsibility , that's a lot of weight on you emotionally .
I'm not saying it's not on a nurse practitioner , but I think it's on a higher level and um , so me and him had to have like a come to Jesus talk and I was just like you know , I'm not here for your job Like your . Your wife is a nurse , you're . It's not farfetched that your kids might not want to be nurses or nurse practitioners someday .
How would you feel if a doctor spoke to your children the way you speak to me , and it was like a light bulb went off in his head because like no one had presented it to him like that and now we have a really great working relationship and stuff like that .
So it's just , I think people don't think sometimes like about other experiences because you're so locked into the experience you have .
Yeah , that's fair . It's hard to look outside of our own bubbles .
It is . So anything else we need to add to the misconception of nurse practitioners or just want to be doctors ?
Probably not . Yes , you know , I think it's . You're right , it's never going to change . I don't . I don't think there's going to be change .
I think whoever is going to hate us is going to and is going to , and there will be nothing to change their views . And then I actually don't . I never say never .
I actually think my personal opinion is just because our health care system is such on a rocky downward slope , I personally think that one day I don't know , have you ever watched dr quinn medicine woman ? I don't know if she worked on animals or who she worked on , but it was house call physicians .
I watched this when I was like a little kid with my mom and I personally think that our healthcare system will end up back where , if you can afford a doctor to come to your house , you will be one of the lucky ones , or you can afford a nurse practitioner to come and we would be cheaper than a doctor . And that's just what it's going to be .
Because I don't foresee in 30 , 40 years , our healthcare system withstanding what it's undertaking . I I don't foresee in 30 , 40 years , our health care system withstanding what it's undertaking . I just don't because at the end of the day , we have to remember hospitals and doctor's offices and clinics .
Our business is at the end of the day and if you don't turn a profit , you're going to file bankruptcy and that's just what it is let's get our horse carriage and our little you know bag of supplies and it's not like we can't turn a profit . It's like , think about it , we're not in control of the profit .
Our government is and they determine , and health care insurances determine how much reimbursement there is , and it's less every year , and then insurance is more expensive every year . So logically , that just seems like it's on a downward spiral .
Oh , this is great .
So , when it comes to want to be doctors , I think that eventually , when that happens , I think the respect will be there .
But I also think that , just like I had the conversation with the doctor , I think that once you have a conversation and it's a meaningful conversation with somebody I do think people can change their mind , but it has to be in that experience that they experience .
That makes sense to me . Yeah , yeah , I think yeah .
All right . Misconception number two NPs nurse practitioners only handle minor cases . The gasp , the gasp . So yes and no , right , it depends on what kind of state you're in , whether it's collaborative or independent , because if you're independent you're doing it all . Yeah , and it also depends on are you family practice or are you acute care .
Yeah , that's critical care .
It also depends on your hospital rules and regulations , because your licensure can say that you can do . For example , I'm acute care .
My licensure says I can intubate , put in chest tubes , art lines , all the things critical care , right Like I'm licensed to do that , but I'm not when the hospital that I used to work for what's it called when you like , credential .
Yeah , I'm not credentialed in the hospital to do those things because the hospital doesn't allow it , despite my licensure allowing it . So in the role that I was in , yes , the nurse practitioners only handled the minor cases . That's fair .
Yeah , in some ways , though , you're right . We couldn't do anything , but at least we could manage , like the medical care of an intubated patient or on , you know , non-invasive positive pressure ventilation and xyz right well , we also work two different roles .
You were a hospitalist , I was in the er . My role in the er was to handle the lower acuity patients , so the doctors could focus on the critical patients yeah and that was the role , so it wasn't necessarily a misconception .
Where I worked now , we were allowed in the trauma pods and stuff like that , but we weren't running a trauma , we weren't running a code , um , and that's where I said it all comes down to self-motivation to learn , because once you're kind of told you can't do all those things like do you , do you harden your heart and you say , fine , screw it , I won't learn
anything else ? Or do you still push past that and say , no , I still want to learn , I'm going to come in here usually harden your heart and just put your head down and do the minor stuff right .
But you've had an experience right at a hospital in a different state where nurse practitioners were running the traumas yes and no , we weren't running the traumas oh , okay physicians and the residents were running them .
we were still helping but we did round because I worked in another state where we rounded on the trauma patients without the physicians doing procedures like chest tubes , like pulling trachs and stuff like that , and so you were managing their care . You had to know if something was going south or not .
So yes , working in a different state where the collaboration was a lot different , I did have that and it scared the bejesus out of me .
That's fair . It's good yeah .
It just scared me because but there was always a physician there you could call , but it still scared me because I came from 10 years of no , don't do that . No , don't do that , no , don't do that too . This is all yours and I'm just like what .
But that that you're like a healthy level of fear , no matter how long you've been doing it is normal like that .
Right , that's our protective mechanism , probably so and I know this is completely different , but I think I've heard , like , when people like musicians and stuff like that and artists , when they get on stage , like people ask them , like are you still nervous , are you still terrified ?
And even the ones that have been doing this 10-15 years say , yes , still get nervous when I step on that stage . I want to see . It was chris Brown's interview I was listening to when he was like the moment I don't become nervous . I know I need to hang it up or something like that .
Maybe it was him I don't know if it was him or not but like that first jitter , like when you go out there , we should feel that .
Yes , I think you're right . Like when , if or when ? Probably when we get burnt out . It's time for a vacation , it's time to step back .
Right and so and the difference is this misconception , like sharing real cases where you've managed complex patients . So , like I , have managed some complex patients . Like you said at my other role when I was in trauma , I remember one night it was July 4th , it was a crazy night .
Our role as the nurse practitioners I was working night shift it was a crazy night , like we , our role , what as the nurse practitioners I was working night shift was to go around on all the trauma patients which in the summertime it was so hectic , like , for whatever reason , traumas in the summer , whether it be car wrecks , shootings , I guess because it's warmer
and people are just outside , I don't know and just rounding on all those like everything you could imagine was going wrong , like I think me and another part , like we had a partner you always had somebody with you had like 35 patients to round on . You would think that was fine .
But then you also had to respond to all the level one traumas , all the like pages and everything that not there was like five level ones , like every . All the nurses were paging us like this chest tube was clamped , this person had a fever , this and like we , we couldn't get through the rounding to save our life and I was just like that's insane .
Um , but going back to the misconception of nurse practitioners only handle minor cases . People do need to remember that nurse practitioners do still diagnose , prescribe and manage acute and chronic diseases .
And you did that more so in your role as a hospitalist than I did in the ER , because our hospital privileges didn't like allow us to discharge and admit patients or , you know , contact the physician that we were admitting to , or or consults and stuff like that . But yours did so kind of talk about your experience .
A little bit about handling critical patients .
It was expected , which was , honestly , that my first job . It was a blessing , like it was expected that you be like the top of your game , you , there's no room to be a dumb , dumb , you know . So it was expected absolutely that you collaborate , but also like you're there admitting patient and you get the job done , no matter how minor or critical they are .
And then you , you know , report back with the highlights like hey , you know , here's what I did for X , y , z , right , if they came in with , I don't know , respiratory failure and they're intubated or they've had a STEMI , of course you're going to call cardiology X , y , z , but here's what you've done to , you know , stabilize , admit , and we also took like
um , like hospital call . So you know you were expected to respond to the code and to know what to do Exactly .
No , I think , and again I think , some of these misconceptions are all dependent on case by case basis , right , like it depends on what state you're in , it depends on what role you're in what , what your hospital privileges are versus your licensure .
But the third misconception would be , quote unquote nurse practitioners don't know as much as doctors , and this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in the first misconception . So how do you feel about that ?
I think you're right . We don't like , absolutely we don't . Our education is not a doctorate and that's fine . I think there's a role for us and there is a place . I think there's a role for us and there's a place .
And but sadly , to piggyback off of what you said in the beginning , that it's an unfortunate statement that I'm about to make , that NP schools are not all created equal . They're not , and it's embarrassing , it is .
And because it gives us a bad name overall , because you know it only takes one dum-dum to ruin up , to muck up the whole mess , but I'm not even going to say like a dumb dumb and a nurse practitioner , because any , any field is going to have that .
That's true Any field is going to pass someone that barely skated by . I've worked with some doctors that I'm just like how did you pass medical school ? How ?
Yeah , there's going to be a goober , you know everywhere everywhere and like I've seen it in the real estate business , I've seen it in accounting , I've seen it ever , like teachers , I'm like how are you teaching students ? Like that's true , so I've seen it in every field .
So I'm not even just going to say that's a nurse practitioner field , I'm just going to say like I've seen that everywhere . But it is unfortunate that there isn't like a standard practice for nurse practitioner schooling . Like there is a standard when it comes to , like the Board of Nursing .
And it's like because we all have different Board of Nursing's right in all 50 states . So it's not a national standard , if you will . Like each Board of Nursing says you have to have this many clinical hours , but there's no real guideline on here's the things you must know . Well , I guess , to pass boards .
There's a guideline of here's the things you must know . Well , I guess , to pass boards . There's a guideline of here's the things you need to know . But again , I personally just think physician assistant schooling is more in depth and I think that theirs is more nationally recognized , as this is what we do .
Yeah , versus , where nurse practitioners is so individualized based on what school you go to .
Yeah , that's true , because you're right like they , I think they see it as okay .
Well , you've been to nursing school , so you know patho and you know blah blah right , this is just an extension of what you should already know yes and that's where we can get into the misconception of do you think it's a misconception that people should or shouldn't go straight through nursing school Because there's a ?
I personally , just because I know you have and I think that you've done and excelled well , but I have seen a lot of people not who don't ? who don't do well because they don't have that experience .
Because , again , nursing background experience is completely different than the physician world of biology , completely different than the physician world of biology , pathophysiology , treating a disease process . You do learn that from experiencing in as a nurse .
You learn that , like you're right by mistakes , unfortunately that's true and , seeing like what the physicians do for each of your patients , that you have like , absolutely do .
For example , if a doctor is in school and they're learning about the krebs cycle , they're learning about electrolytes okay , wait , wait , wait a whole .
We learned about the stupid ass krebs cycle , but continue .
Sorry , got fired up fired because you completely interrupted me without knowing what I was going to say or where I was going with that . For example , a doctor goes into depth about that . They're going to spend weeks on that . They're going to go into the electrolyte exchange and all this stuff . They're going to spend weeks on that .
Then they're going to go into the electrolyte exchange and all this stuff . They're going to spend weeks on that . Then they're going to go into what disease processes could happen from that . We learn a snippet of that , maybe a day in nursing school .
And then when you get on the floor , when you have a patient who's in DKA , which is a diabetic ketoacidosis and their potassium sky high because they're in DKA , and then you have to ask a physician or a physician to teach you well , how do we bring that down ? Why is this happening ?
Because we didn't learn that there is a difference in a day of schooling , in a day of a critical patient going south for a doctor teaching you that , something you will remember for the rest of your life and you'll memorize it to know what to do in the next case . But is it memorization ? Or is it actually knowing what to do in the next case ?
But is it memorization , or is it actually knowing what to do and why ?
so I mean , well , mp school is still a blur to me , like I don't remember a lot of it , but I want to say that they went over that not like you're talking about an mp school full-time is a year and a half .
You're done in a year and a half full-time . It's two , two years part . Oh , I did , yeah , I did part-time , never mind , sorry , right , so you're talking about a year and a half . You're done in a year and a half full-time .
It's two , two years part . Oh , I did , yeah , I did part-time , never mind , sorry , right , so you're talking about a year and a half of learning everything a doctor learns in eight years .
There's and I will agree with the the consensus on that . There's no way there's no eight years of stuff in a year and a half yeah , there's no way there's no way .
So that's what I'm saying , like yes , you have four years of nursing school , but really it's only two years , because the first two years are your prereqs yeah so then you're learning two years of nursing school , which are going through however many modules , so you're only spending what a day or two on that . You see what I'm saying .
So the level of knowledge and I'm not saying nurse practitioners aren't smart because they are , but you have to learn , you have to be self-motivated to learn , because that's where it comes into the fact that nurse who learned about DKA that day , they can memorize what to do for the next patient . It can be a game of memorization .
Or I can go home and be self-motivated to say , but why ? And those are the nurse practitioners and nurses , in my personal opinion , that do excel and do do well , because you have that motivation to say that's great that you told me how to fix it , but why ?
That's true . Yeah , you're right , that's . And I think that , like on top of that , it's not only your ability , but it's the experiences that you get , like in nurse practitioner school and then in the working world .
Right . And so in my personal opinion and I like I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this and that's fine , my personal opinion there are certain people that can go straight through RMBSN to NP . You're one of them , you've done wonderful , your mind is set up to do that .
There are some nurses that I have worked with that if they would have done that , I would have just been flabbergasted because I would be like because their motivation for MP school money , money . Yeah , which is another misconception we can talk about .
Do you feel that nurses should be allowed into MP school if their only motivating factor is to make more money ?
No .
Same , because that is . That in itself is a misconception with money and how much nurse practitioners make .
Yeah , and especially if you work for different hospital systems . Rns make more money than MPs anyways , but that could be a whole different topic .
No , I think I want to get into that as a misconception , because I think it's important . I don't think money should be a driving factor , because I think that takes the heart out of it .
Because , again , we have talked so much on this podcast already about how you have to have the heart and the drive and the self-motivation to become really good Because of the lack of what's the word Standardized formal education .
Yeah .
So I don't . And then I think , and again , this is just from the state that we're in . When I graduated , I made four more dollars an hour .
Absolutely .
As a nurse practitioner than I did as an RN . And now I have all this debt with way more responsibility . And if I would have done it for the money ?
I'd have been real pissed , correct , real pissed .
And I actually had this conversation with a colleague recently that she just thought we made as much as doctors did and I was like wow no , no like we're lucky in this state if we make six figures correct . Yes , it's considered a very lucky job to be in and people may be like what ? Yeah , we're very like , and I get that a lot .
People are like , oh , wow , you're a nurse practitioner , you must make really good money . And I'm like , yeah , because I work three jobs correct .
You have xyz numbers of experience because yes , like in , uh , yeah , around here it's probably about what , 80 000 I would give it probably 87 , 90 .
Okay , yeah , I wouldn't say 80 , because a nurse was . A nurse is like 75 , 80 , uh , not sure .
Yeah , nurses are like 75 absolutely , and there's not much difference no , no and um , I know that's probably shocking , but like .
But just to put that into a misconception , I , and like , even like some of the doctors I worked with , thought that we were making just a couple dollars less than them , and I oh , my god once we had like conversations , I was just like they were actually shocked as well , because not that like .
Like we said in the first misconception , we're there to compliment . I'm there to make your life easier .
So if I'm going in and doing your laceration , repair your abscesses , doing the little tasks that do take time to like , get that off your plate so that you can go see more critical patients , I do expect to be paid more because you're getting the RVUs for that , like doctors and again , doctors nowadays are not paid as well as they should be either just because
, of our healthcare system and , like the insurance reimbursements and stuff like that , they're not paid what they should be paid either . But if I'm making you , you're number one . You're making an hourly or a salary wage plus your RVUs , which are if y'all don't know what that is it's just basically what they make based on procedures .
So procedures are going to make more money If I'm doing your procedure and I'm just only getting my hourly wage , which is not even livable at this point . I know that sounds very privileged when I say that .
I just had to think about that , but I'm just saying , as a nurse practitioner , you wouldn't think someone would have to work two and three jobs , which that's just what it is in our economy right now . But there is a misconception that nurse practitioners make a lot of money , and I'm not saying that . Some don't , some do , oh , yeah , they do .
In other states they do . There's more independent states where they do make as much as a doctor because they're running the show and they should make that , because it is a very demanding job and it's you know you're , you've got someone's life in your hands and sometimes the the work is dangerous and you know , depending on where you're at .
But it is a huge misconception that people think nurse practitioners are going to get rich off the job .
Yeah , so that's just from my personal experience .
So if you are a nurse practitioner out there listening to this and you are making a lot of money , please DM me . Tell me what you're doing , so I can not work three jobs . Anyways , getting back on track here , did we cover everything you think for the misconception of MPs don't know as much as doctors I think so .
Yeah .
All right . The next one is um . Seeing a nurse practitioner means you're getting lower quality care .
Oh my God , oh Jesus , that was just straight up hurtful .
I have , you know , there I've worked in , you know , outpatient clinics where I have had some of you know my elderly patients who are used to just seeing a doctor , say that to me , say , like you know , know , I'm not going to see a nurse practitioner , I'm only , you know , I'm only going to see the doctor , and that's fine if that's their preference .
But then I've also had patients say to me that they've gotten better care from a nurse practitioner than a doctor and I think and I'm not saying like better as in smarter- I'm saying better as in . We still have that nursing background where we want to still dote and care on the patient .
We still have that in us to be able to educate a little bit better , to be able to see the patient as a patient with their family there . They're not just cells and biology when we look at them . So I don't think that you're getting lower quality care . I think that's a huge misconception .
I think that you're still getting great care from a nurse practitioner , if not sometimes better care .
I think we overall maybe I can speak from personal experience there's always that drive to be better than average and show maybe quote unquote , show people that you are as good as you A doctor , yeah .
Well , and here's some quotes from online . Studies show nurse practitioner patient outcomes are as good as , or better than , doctors . So they have studied that Nurse practitioners often spend more time with patients , leading to better education and adherence . I agree with that .
Even in my past experience , the doctor would walk out of the room and I would be in there with them while the doctor was trying to educate them , and the patient would just look at me and go . What did he say ? Because it wasn't quote , unquote , dumbed down from this level of education . You know where . Sometimes we have to . We have to remember we're not .
We're talking to people that aren't medical people , just like if an engineer came at me and started talking to me . I'd be like could you dumb that down for me , can you ? Put it in layman's terms , like I'm not . I'm not an engineer , so I think sometimes they forget that .
And so we're there and we remember that as nurses and if you're delivering bad news , know to put a hand on the shoulder , we know how to squat down to their eye level . There's things that we do and think about from our nursing background that does give more of a compassion .
That bedside nurse , yeah us , if that makes sense is yeah and I think that goes a long way it does absolutely , because we do think about like oh okay , you just like for our maybe post hospital visit follow-ups in the office , while I am worried about you know their risk for sepsis and have they pooped and peed you know ?
X , y , z , are they running fevers ? Blah , blah , blah . Right , I also am worried about do you have food in your refrigerator ? What is your support system ? Look like , were you able to drive you ? Like things like that ? So probably there is a difference right .
And then the last thing , um , that there was a quote online . Um , it just says , like it's all about the personal approach to patient care . You know , um , and again , I think that we just remember we have that nursing background and I think that's what separates us from physician's assistants .
Right , like I remember working in the er and because I had worked in the same place as a nurse , like if an ivy pole is beeping , I know how to , I know how to operate it and I can fix it and I don't have to call the nurse in there yeah but a physician assistant can't .
And I don't blame they , just never yeah , they just correct they didn't have that bedside nursing so they would have to come out of the room and be like , hey , can someone help me with this IV pump or something where we can be like I got it , I can fix it or I can still , if the nurse is busy , I can start your IV .
I can still do all those things that I did as a nurse . So I think it's just a difference .
But and in the hospital , like not to toot my own horn but toot um . You know , like things that we would do , that maybe physicians or physician's assistants wouldn't like help with a boost or clean your patient up that you're going to see , yeah .
Which is odd . It's funny that you say that because you know , like all these medical shows like oh , my God yeah . Number one . If you haven't watched the pit , I've been talking about it on the podcast . It's fabulous and like it's so . It's probably the most realistic that I've seen where it shows actual nurses and what they do and stuff like that .
However , there isn't a nurse practitioner in there I just realized that last night . But it still does really good at like showing like the physician side of it and the nursing side of it .
Okay , that's nice .
So it's really good , like . but then you see things like Grey's anatomy , where the doctor standing on the trauma Bay waiting for their patient gowned up , and I'm like no patient gowned up and I'm like , no , yeah , not real life , but you're right , we do . We do still stay in the room and help with stuff like that .
Like if the patient's like , hey , can you get me a blanket , can you get me some water , like we do that , all right . The next misconception is that nurse practitioners are just for primary care . I think we've kind of already debunked that with a lot of the examples that we've talked about .
I think people forget that , that there's different specialties of nurse practitioners , just like there's different specialties of doctors . Um , there's a lot of nurse practitioners that specialize in trauma , cardiology , oncology , psych .
Um , I know the ones that were offered at my schooling where family nurse practitioners versus um , acute care , adult gerontology , and then I know at Vanderbilt they offer psychiatric MP degree emergency room nurse practitioner . So there are schools that are more in depth with the specialties , where you learn more for that specialty .
That's yeah , yeah , and which I mean , just like a doctor would do that , like when they're in their residency , they , you know , narrow down their residency . Do you want to be a cardiologist ? Do you want to be a gastroenterologist ? So there are schools out there , there are more of the .
I don't know if UAB does , I think it probably does , but I know Vanderbilt for sure has like a lot of different specialties for a nurse practitioner program .
Oh , that's nice .
Yeah . Is there anything else we need to say about that ?
What do you think ? Not that nothing's coming to mind ?
Okay . So the next misconception is nurse practitioners should not make as much as a doctor , which I know . We were kind of talking about money a little bit , but I do want to bring up something , because nurse practitioners are more of a female predominant field .
I think the misconception there , like we've already talked about how we do not make we I mean , I'm sure there are some States and there's some nurse practitioners that do , but I it has not been my experience to make near what a doctor makes , not even come close to touching it Um nor has it been my experience , um , that people it's been my experience that
people do find this to be true . They're like , well , you make as much as a doctor or whatever .
We don't know .
But I do feel like our pay is not what it should be for what we do . Yes , no , we are not doctors . No , we don't have the same education level as them .
However , what we do bring to the table deserves to be compensated .
It does and we still are , in some aspects , taking a like 50 to 75% of your load off of your plate .
Yeah , whether that be , see some of your patients independently , whether that may be doing your all your procedures , running room to room to room to do your procedure so that you can focus on more critical patients , whatever capacity that may be , the compensation should be more than a nurse , because we almost fall into that category of we're not nurses anymore , but
we're also not physicians . But we have not recognized your field yet . And that's just speaking from the state that we're in . And that's not all of Alabama , because I do know that there's other . I have some colleagues in Alabama . They work in Birmingham , but they're not treated that way . They're treated more independently .
And probably paid . You know , yeah , I blinked out , but probably paid as such .
Yes and no , I still think that their pay is not as what it should be . Because if I'm managing patients , like , let's say , in an ICU at night and you know I'm barely making six figures I have a problem with that because , number one , we're on night shift .
We're staying up because a lot of people like doctors that are nocturnists are going to make a lot more money than a day shift doctor and that's just a normal thing because you're on night shift and it's taking away from your typical schedule . Yeah , but where I was going to go with that is female nurse practitioners are predominantly a female field .
There , you know , there are some male nurse practitioners and there's some male nursing , but it's still a female predominantly driven field . And I think that when nurse practitioners initially , you know , go from nursing to nurse practitioner school , we're not taught as females to negotiate our salary as a man would .
Because I have recently been having to do that in my job because we're switching from 1099 to W2 , which is a whole nother podcast I need to do . But whenever I'm trying to negotiate my salary , like , I've been talking to my aunt a lot and I was like why do I feel so bad negotiating this salary ? And she was like because you're a female .
She was like because we're taught don't talk about money , don't share that experience , don't ask for what you deserve . We're taught that internally from a very young age and if it were a man asking like , they would be like no , this is what I'm asking and I , this is what I'm asking and I do not feel guilty about that .
Absolutely . We're taught to shrink , yeah , to be diminutive , don't be rude or don't be perceived as rude .
Absolutely Be happy , be accepting of whatever you're offered , correct , you know . Just be excited that you have a job .
Well , there , that also um , is where we live , and the predominantly um . You know like , yeah , absolutely Like my first job , I know , probably with yours too . You absolutely did not even negotiate because you were told , probably in no uncertain terms , to be happy with it .
Pretty much . So that is a huge misconception . But I don't think it's a misconception that we are . I don't think it's a misconception for the nurse practitioner or the medical world that nurse practitioners don't make as much as doctors . I think it's a misconception for the nurse practitioner or the medical world that nurse practitioners don't make as much as doctors .
I think it's a shock to people who are not medical when they hear that . I think that they truly think that we do make that that's wild because , like I said , I had a conversation with a colleague the other day who is in . She's an audiologist , and I had a conversation with her and she was like , oh , I just thought you made as much as a doctor .
And I was like what ? Like people still think that and that's like one person .
Can you imagine no wonder there's so much hate online ? You know , like who knows all these misconceptions and then you just light a fire under it and then it goes haywire I think it was brought to light a lot during covid , like with the year of the nurse or whatever .
I think that a lot of people were like rallying behind nursing staff saying , no , they don't get paid , like nursing and teachers , we know , do not get paid what they should get paid for what they do correct yeah like teachers are teaching you , teaching your children , life skills , education . So , no , they do not get paid what they should get paid to do that .
And nurses are literally wiping your ass , taking you to the bathroom and saving your life for 20 bucks an hour yes correct , you know . Anyways , enough on that and the last misconception we have um , actually , oh , that was it . That was the last one . Do you have any other misconceptions after we went through that list that you can think of ?
that we didn't cover honestly , I think we covered everything from education to pay to how we're perceived .
Yeah , and I mean it is a huge thing . But I think that you know , did we ? Did we like talk ? Yeah , we did talk about like going straight through school , like I think there's certain maybe there should be some kind of litmus test that you have to pass to be able to go straight through . I'm just saying , like you , you did well .
I know brandy would have done well if she did that , because , gosh , y'all could have went to medical school . I , my brain , I just I can't like the way , like when we have conversations about patients or whatever , and I'm like what would you do ?
And you'll like explain your whole theology on it and I'm just like what , how did your brain like come up with that ? not to say that I don't think critically . I just have a different way of doing it than you do you know I kind of yeah , it's too late .
Now I got what I got .
But now thinking about it , like , thinking about , like .
If , thinking about some of the nurses that you have worked with , if someone came up to you and said , ivy , I'm going straight through , I'm just working this job because I need to pay for nurse practitioner school , would you then bat an eye or would you be like , great , go for it I , I'm like torn between that because , like I , I don't think ever honestly
that it would be my place to discourage somebody mine either . I'm not saying I don't want to discourage anyone either . I'm just saying like I'm . I'm very mixed on it because I think that there are certain people that can do very well at it , and I think there's other people that need the experience .
Yes , and maybe , if they asked , me I would be like hey , you know what do you think about getting a couple more years before you apply ? But that , you know , can be all with a grain of salt . Maybe they'll figure it out and get their ass whooped medically . You know , I don't know . Yeah .
And I also like and I just not to discourage anyone from going to nurse practitioner school If you want to be a nurse practitioner , you know we need great nurse practitioners . But if you're just doing it for the money , like I do think that at some point you'll regret your decision .
Maybe you won't , because in the area that we're located the money's just not there . Um , for now , maybe it'll improve , maybe , um , but I also think you have to have some kind of like want to do that , like it has to be like a passion .
I think so . But then that also gets into like people , should you know . People always want to say like oh , nursing should be your passion , so how dare you even argue about money , you know ?
like yeah , um , I agree , like I understand , but nursing . Nursing is one of those fields that if you don't have a passion for it or some kind , of want or some kind of like . I like this , you will burn out faster . Oh yeah , you would hate it like I burned out probably a year .
I want to say six or eight , just because of the type of work I was doing . It was just non-stop , all day , everyday work , and I also probably signed up for too many extra shifts when I should have just worked my three and went home but , I I still , when I first started it wasn't like I initially hated my job .
So if you get into it and you already have this disdain for it , I think it's just my personal opinion . Again , I don't know , because I did have a passion for nursing . I lost my passion .
I talked about that openly on a previous episode , how I kind of lost my passion over time because I , like I said at the beginning of this podcast , I went into nursing thinking it was going to be this sit by the bedside , talk to the patient , listen which is now that I think about it .
I probably should have been a therapist if you just wanted to listen to people . But , um , that's what I thought . It was like it was more of a I'm here to support you type type . Because that's what we did in high school , like we just sat with the patients , brought them the things that they needed .
Um yeah , florence would be a shame , or should be worn out maybe my high school wasn't doing the best job , like maybe we should have shadowed the nurses a little bit more , versus being like here y'all are just like techs , you know , like filling up water bottles and stuff , because that's what I thought it was .
I had a feeble mind , didn't , didn't investigate any further , but and and a part of me did go into nursing , like I said , to get out of my small town , cause you had to choose a career if you didn't want to be working in a factory . But again , I still . I was like I figured out what I wanted to do , cause I knew I had to decide in high school .
I was like what do you want to do ? Do you want to be an engineer ? Do you want to be a nurse ? Do you want to be a teacher ? And I had to make that decision . And then I did fall in love with it , with that one old grumpy ass patient this history the rest is history . But anyways , guys , thank you for listening to the misconceptions .
I hope this was helpful . I hope . I hope we did not offend anyone . It was not our intention to do that . We were just sharing our personal experience and journeys along the way . Of course , this is just thoughts . You know what my podcast is about . Just a streamline of thoughts .
But , ivy , thank you for having this conversation with me , thank you for having me . All right , guys , until next time . Bye , thank you .