Mastering Early Dating Stages w/ Meenu - podcast episode cover

Mastering Early Dating Stages w/ Meenu

Sep 10, 202452 minEp. 143
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Episode description

#143: Is overthinking ruining your early dating experiences? Join us on the Babbles Nonsense Podcast, where Meenu and I unravel the often chaotic and confusing world of early dating stages. We begin by sharing our own stories and the common pitfalls women face in modern dating, from navigating endless advice online to dealing with overthinking every small detail. Meenu, an experienced coach, offers insightful tips on approaching dating with clear intentions, underscoring the importance of self-work and setting personal standards to avoid unnecessary heartache.

Moving forward, we emphasize the necessity of clear communication about intentions in the early phases of dating. Discover why the first few dates should focus on simply enjoying each other’s company before delving into deeper conversations about relationship goals. We discuss how important it is for women to feel empowered to express their needs and intentions clearly and examine the balance of giving and receiving in relationships. From the dynamics of paying for dates to the art of accepting kindness, we touch on how to set the tone for a healthy relationship.

Finally, we explore how societal conditioning shapes our dating behaviors and the journey to self-acceptance. We discuss the pitfalls of seeking validation from friends and the importance of healing past traumas before stepping into new relationships. Our personal anecdotes and Meenu's coaching insights provide practical advice on approaching dating with confidence and clarity. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the modern dating landscape and how to navigate it with intention and self-awareness. Don't forget to engage with us by leaving reviews, ratings, and reaching out with your questions or coaching needs!

Find Meenu here:
https://www.instagram.com/transcendencebymeenu/

You can now send us a text to ask a question or review the show. We would love to hear from you!

Follow me on social: https://www.instagram.com/babbles_nonsense/

Transcript

Johnna

What is up everyone ? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense Podcast . I have Minyu back today and we are talking about early stages in dating .

We're talking like the first date to like six to eight weeks in , mostly because there's not really a lot of advice out there for the early stages in dating , and it's something that I'm trying to get back into . So if dating or early stages of dating is the topic that you would like to hear about , we have you covered .

All right , guys , welcome back to another episode of the babbles nonsense podcast and transcend into wellness with me and you . It's been a while since you've been here , so welcome back you I know it has been a while .

Meenu

I know that you've been doing your own stuff and I've been here . So welcome back . I know it has been a while , I know that you've been doing your own stuff and I've been doing my own stuff . I've been doing a bunch of travel , so it's just really been hard to find a time to sit down and do this .

So I'm really glad we finally are getting to do this .

Johnna

Trust me , girl , life has been crazy , like just working two jobs in general and trying to podcast . Like I go and forth all the time I'm like I might just end it , I don't know . And then every time I'm like should I ? I'm like , yeah , I think I still got a little bit more in me do not end it .

Meenu

Your podcast is too good and I told you born to record , she is born to record , you all like . I tell her this all the time and every time I talk to her , every time we text a lot , so when , when we text , I forget her voice .

Johnna

But then I'm like oh , my god , she's born to talk , like well because Meenu is so much younger than me , so she is in the generation of voice notes and I can't get into . I want to get into it , like I love listening to him , it makes it easier . But then it's like when I want to respond , like I'll forget what the first part of the note said .

But I , I'm trying to get there . It's a work in progress , but I'm much older than you .

Meenu

You're not that much older than me .

Johnna

Yes , I am , yes , I am , you're a baby . But anyways , today , guys , we are going to talk about kind of early dating . So , and the reason why this topic came about is I actually did a coaching session with me and you the other day .

She coached me a little bit just because I'm trying to get back out into the dating world and being me and I'm sure other women can relate to this .

Out there , we tend to overthink and we get in our heads a little bit about like , about dating tips , because there's just so much quote unquote advice on the Internet , whether it be TikTok , instagram , google , whatever . So you know .

So I have to go to the professional source whenever I have questions and I'm like you know what , everybody needs to know this too . So we're going to talk about early dating tips , probably more geared towards women , since we're women .

Meenu

But , yeah , we're just going to talk about early dating tips . Yeah , and I'm so excited to dive into this because a lot of my clients are like putting themselves out there and dating right now , like not to be very generic about it . But dating right now is difficult , it is . It's just there's so many , not it's .

When apps came out it started getting difficult , but now there are multiple apps , so you're just like which one you know ? Like which one do I go ? Which one do I swipe on Like ? So you're just like which one you know ? Like which one do I go ? Which one do I swipe on Like ?

And then I think so it's really , really important in this process , whether you're in the process and listening to this or like whether you're going to start the process and you want to tune into this .

I would just say do a lot of internal work , like really identify , like what you really want , where you're at , what your standards are , because if you don't have that straightened out , let me tell you there's going to be a lot of trial and error . And if you're okay with that , then that's okay too .

But there's going to be a lot of trial and error in the process of dating .

Johnna

And I love that you say that , because I know when we first started coaching each other it's been over a year now , I think that we first started coaching you had asked me that and I was like , you know , I kind of just want to like meet somebody , and you know it turned into a long and you're like , okay , but that's not really like intentional , like what ,

what is your intentions here ? And I was just like I wasn't clear . But then I was expecting the people that I was dating to be clear in their intentions as well , which then you had to point out to me like girl , you're not even clear on what you want , right , and you know that's really interesting .

Meenu

You say that because I was actually coaching a client on this . This was like a few months ago and just to give you an example of how this is possible too . So when she started putting herself out there I was like , hey , you know , um , what actually do you want ? And then she was very transparent . And then she said what actually do you want ?

And then she was very transparent . And then she said , minoo , like right now , what I really want is just a fling . I was like okay , I mean , I said , if you're okay with that and if that's good for you , then great .

And then I think she tried that for a little bit and I think after two or three months she came back and she said , okay , I think now I'm like ready for something bigger , something serious .

Johnna

So you know , our intentions also change right , right , so that's why , they change , like you said , like with with her , like when you are starting to go on these dates , you realize kind of what you don't want versus what exactly exactly ?

Meenu

and sometimes people you know that's so interesting . When people don't know what they do want , i'll'll always ask them what do you , what is it that you don't want ? And then that will help them get like really clear .

In her case , in my client's case , it's like after going out with a bunch of losers I guess you know she figured out that okay , like she wants something serious , she doesn't want to just , you know , have flings , or she doesn't want to just go on dates , like you know .

So it's really interesting how our intentions change as we discover ourselves in the process . So whenever somebody is out there for dating and there's another client that comes to my mind , the one thing I was like telling her was setting expectations . And I think this is where people can get really either really confused or overly excited .

They'll be like , oh , my God , guess what your girl's going to put yourself out there , I'm going to get on the couch tomorrow . I'm going to swipe , I have all these outfits picked out , I have all these great pictures , I look amazing . And you know , like they get really excited , like process , and that's what you're shown .

You're shown the highlight reels and social media and like media in general that , oh , dating is fun , it's all about dressing up and going to restaurants and trying new recipes . Not really , it's not Exactly so . You're given this , you're shown this picture that it can be really fun . And I'm not saying it can't be , it can be .

But I think it's really healthy to reset expectations , saying I've decided to go and have fun .

For example , if you're dating then say I'm going to have fun , I'm going to go to this restaurant , I'm going to try this dish and I'm going to try to have a decent and open conversation , yeah , either ways I have decided to have fun , either ways I have decided to have a good time .

Because if you put that responsibility on the guy saying , oh , he has to make me feel so good , he has to do this , he has to do that I think that's when it really I think it gets really messed up , because then you're like , oh , why did I do this ? Why did I have these expectations ? Now I have to reset my expectations .

I'm not saying don't have expectations , I'm saying that energetically , just reset yourself to have a good time . And then the guy is a bonus . And then what happens ? There is a bonus , whether you get to take away from that or you get to leave that .

Johnna

And then I think this is what you're saying and then , in another way to say it , I can't remember if it was Jay Shetty or Matthew Hussey that said it , but he was like you go on these dates and , yes , obviously people are nervous like both parties can be nervous , right .

But when you're going , kind of like you said about the expectations , they say how did he word it ? He was like you don't even know if you like them , so why do you go into it worried about if they like you , like you should worry about do you like them ?

Meenu

And I think this is also something I think it's really sad in certain cases , and it's also true that women are inherent people pleasers , like most of us are , and we just want to make sure the other person is comfortable .

We just want to make sure , you know , like it's just so much there in our genetics I don't know what it is so automatically we like dress up , we like put on the best clothes , we like have this nice attitude . It's almost like this interview process .

Instead , you know , I'm saying interview yourself and be like Okay , I feel good , I'm going to go out and have a good time , and that's it . And right person , whether they give me a seal of approval or not . That should not be a part of the process , because if it is , then that will wreck with your self-worth .

Johnna

Right right .

So kind of just diving on from there , I think the biggest thing and I can use myself as example obviously I don't have clients like you do , but so like when I like intermittently go on these dates or whatever you know , and then I finally meet someone that I like , and then it turns out , like you know , we're in this quote unquote dating stage for weeks or

months or whatever . So I guess that's where we should start , like what is defined as , like , the talking stage , or maybe it's called early dating versus the dating stage . Like what would you define that as as a coach ?

Meenu

Okay , that's really interesting . Interesting because the first two to three dates dates whether it's happening in a week or whether it's happening over three weeks . Just take this number . The first two to three dates is actually to figure out if you like being around them , that's it , that's it , that's it , that's it , that's it , nothing else .

Do I enjoy being around them ? Do I enjoy , like conversing with them ? Do I like their energy ? Do I like their energy ? Not the other way around ? Yeah , Right , after that is when the questions come .

Okay , if it goes more than I've always told my clients , if it goes more than three weeks and they're not asking anything about you they're not , they're not wanting to know anything more about your life . You know more about what you do , more about what you like Then the element of curiosity is already not there .

So that's when , maybe , give it another two weeks and have a conversation as to hey , what do you think about this ? You know , like , are you having a good time ? You know , this is where I'm coming from . Like , I would love to have more deeper conversations . I would love for this and that and that . Like I would love to have more deeper conversations .

I would love for this and that and that . You know , let's just normalize women taking that first step and asking for things and saying how they feel , because that's a turn on .

Johnna

That's sexy . I'm glad that you said that because that's something I struggle with , like , and we've talked about this in sessions before and I mentioned it on this podcast .

But , like , I struggle in my personal life with speaking up about things that I want for me , because I do have that people pleasing tendency , whereas in my professional life I don't have issues with that at all . So , like , when is it okay , or is it always okay , to like find your voice and ask what you want ? Obviously , there's ways to do it .

Don't be rude , don't whatever . But , like you're saying , after the first three dates it's been okay to kind of set those quote unquote intentions and ask questions .

Meenu

Yes , I think the thing is , I think you have to be yourself . From date one , yeah , that doesn't change at all , Like whether you're trying to be nice , polite , dah , dah , dah , dah dah , but be yourself , no matter what .

From date one , right , but getting clear on intentions , I would say , like three or four , okay , you're four , especially if you feel like you're texting all the time , you're talking all the time , there is chemistry , there is connection and you feel that . Then definitely ask a healthy question as to hey , what exactly are you looking for ?

You know , I'm just curious , because this is where this is what I'm looking for , right , and if it doesn't align , we can just move in different directions without anybody getting too hurt or having their expectations hurt , not met . So that's what I would say . I would say a healthy time period to like investigate would be date four , date five , okay , you know .

And the first two to three days it's all about do I enjoy spending time with this person ? That's it .

Johnna

Now let's talk about intentions a little bit . So that can be a loaded question , because I , you know , I follow a lot of male guys on TikTok that give advice , like ace metaphor and things like that , and he has a whole podcast called tonight's conversation .

They actually have a really good in-depth conversations and he has a whole podcast called tonight's conversation . They actually have a really good in depth conversations .

And there was a guy I'm not sure his name that was on there and this lady stood up and asked a question , saying , like you know , we went over our intentions and I thought they were aligned because we both said that you know , we were looking for something , but it wasn't the clear part that you had just mentioned .

Because he said cause I think the girl , like she had , gave a whole story , I can't remember , but she was like . But the problem is is like I don't understand why these guys are going on dates if they have no intentions other than to have sex with me or to sleep with me or whatever . And he said , baby girl , listen to what you just said .

He said that is an intention . Their intention is to sleep with you . He said your intention is to date them , to get to know them , to find something serious . He said so this whole buzzword of dating with intentions ? He said you know you could ask . Oh , that's what it was . She asked , like the guy , if he was dating with intentions and he said yes .

His reply was yes , and so then it turned out that he just wanted to sleep with her , or something . He said well , he didn't lie . And the guy was like he didn lie to you . He told you he's dating with intention and his intention is to sleep with you .

So I was like , oh , I didn't even think about it like that , because in my brain I'm thinking dating with intention means there's an intention to find something serious . See where this goes be open minded .

Meenu

Right , right , right , right . Okay , that's really interesting because I feel like there are loud intentions and then there are silent intentions . Yeah , I think that's what we're talking about .

It's like , yeah , we can have that intentions conversation in the third or the fourth date , depending on how long you've known each other , and ask hey , what are you looking for ? But I think the internal energetic intentions are already turned on from date one Right , right , there . For the woman , it's there . For the man , it's always there .

And also sometimes a man will say , oh , I'm looking for this , but they won't be specific .

Johnna

And they're right .

Meenu

Oh I'm , it's not . Like oh I'm looking to , you know , move into something serious this year . No-transcript . Like I'm looking for something serious this year versus oh I'm looking for something serious , it may . Because that is a very like broad statement , Like when are you looking for it ? Like are you looking for it now , are you looking for it later ?

You know , so there's that confusion that can come with timelines . That's where I think intention , specificity , all that like is really important .

Johnna

Well , yes , my thing is more so like , not necessarily timelines , because I think that I specifically don't know my own timeline , because I know that , as of right now and where I'm at currently , like my whole thing is like I don't necessarily want to get married . I don't necessarily want children and that's where I'm at right now .

So when I date someone like , it's really hard for me to open up and find my voice , because I know some men , like some men , it scares off when you're just like , hey , I'm looking for something serious , because in their mind they may go oh , right now .

And so it's kind of hard to communicate like a timeline because it's like , hey , I'm not looking for a specific timeline , I'm just saying like I'm looking for someone who is open to a longer term commitment versus just a hookup , versus just , you know , a friends with benefits situation , a situationship , if you will .

So like how do you communicate that without running someone off when it comes to like specific timelines or something like that ?

Meenu

Okay , that's a really good question . The way I've done it I'm just going to be honest and be vulnerable and talk about me the way I've done it in the past is I've never said timelines , I've never said marriage , I've never quoted any of this . But I have said certain things , like I really enjoy spending time with you and I would like to do more of this .

I would like this , I would like that , I would like that . So basically intentionally saying that I want all of these actions and my needs to be met , and if you can't meet them , that's fine . Let's go different ways where there is a person that actually wants to meet them .

So I have explicitly stated my needs like that , and then that has eventually become a serious thing , because if a guy is serious , then he will want to meet your needs .

Johnna

And see , I think that's where I've messed up in the past , like when I've dated like guys that I think probably do align with me , but I think it's the wording that I use , like if .

I'm like hey , I'm looking for something long term I think that internalized than them like , oh shit , like she wants me to be her boyfriend tomorrow and that's not what I'm trying to communicate right , and that's also something you can elaborate .

Meenu

you know what I mean . It's like you can say , hey , I'm looking for something long term , but at the same time , I really want to make sure very good fit , I really want to make sure this is what I , I really I , I I , because you know when you do that , you're really owning your power , you're really owning yourself worth .

But when you say , I'm looking for this , where are you at ? Where are you at , oh , when will you get there , then it becomes a very much like pick me situation .

Johnna

You don't want to do that .

Meenu

You never want to do that . You always want to pick yourself , no matter what . So I think words have a lot . I think , in fact I would even say over communicate . You know , it can never be a bad thing when you over communicate .

Johnna

Right , right , and the more I date and like , the more I talk to you and like go to therapy and things like that . I think , like I know , after our sessions the other day I told you like after I got off the session I had this like aha moment where I was just like why do I care if someone takes what I say the wrong way ?

Like I know what I intended to say . If someone else perceived it the wrong way , like obviously I care if I hurt someone's feelings , but we're not talking about like a heated discussion , we're talking about just a normal conversation . Like why do , why would I care if they took it the wrong way ?

You know , because I am being authentically me and this is who I am . So if they can't perceive me in the way that I'm coming across , maybe it's not a good fit . Anyways , uh , no , it's , it's automatic no .

Meenu

It's an automatic no because the more you get to know each other , you're only going to be more , you Right ?

Johnna

Right , and I know , and I know like we we were kind of on the topic of like , what stages of dating are we in .

So would you say like and I know everyone has a difference of opinion , everyone has a different timeline Would you say , like , the first three months , like you're still just trying to figure each other out , that's early date , like , and again , this is all perspective , right , because some people , like my parents , they met on a blonde date , got married six weeks

later and have been together 30 plus years . So I mean , everyone's timeline is completely different .

But on average , would you say like , if someone's looking like maybe a girl or guy is like looking for some guidance , like maybe they've been dating someone for six months and it's really not going anywhere , but they're like , well , you know , maybe it's still too early or something like that . Okay , first of all , six months is too long .

Meenu

I was just giving an example .

Johnna

Yeah , yeah , I know what you mean .

Meenu

I would really say eight to 12 weeks . Okay , eight to 12 weeks is really early dating , right ?

And I think after 12 weeks it's three months that we have spent significant amount of time with each other , you've gone on so many dates , you've had so many different conversations , maybe even some serious and deep conversations , and I think at that point , after that it's I'm not saying it's not early dating , it just becomes a little bit more than that .

Johnna

Yeah , when would you say , like as a coach , that you've coached several people , that people actually like start to know , like some people will say online , like men know the first date if they want to be with you or not , and then other guys are like that is not true .

So when would you say , like talking to both men and women , that people like knew that they wanted to progress this further or they knew it wasn't really going to go anywhere , but they were just stringing someone along ?

Meenu

Yeah , always look for safety , okay , look for safety . And when I say safety , I'm not meaning physical safety , I meant safety like , oh , I can actually trust him . Okay , I don't know if I want to be with him , but I can trust him , that's okay . If you say I don't know if I want to be with him , that can wait , you can figure it out .

You can look for compatibility , you can talk about different things , have like difficult conversations , whatever that leads to . But if you can't just trust them for example , if they say they're going to be there at six and they show up at seven , right , I think that's bad .

Maybe you can you know , like give them grace there and be like Right , I think that's bad . Maybe you can you know , like give them grace there and be like , hey , what happened ? If it's like genuine reason , that's fine . But if they repeatedly do that , then they're not to be trusted in their words , right .

And if they're giving examples of other things , just like , pay attention to those things . Are they trustworthy ? Okay , even if they don't want the same thing as you , are they trustworthy ? They trustworthy , I think something . Because for , as women , even as we evolve , it can be 2024 , it can be 2034 , it can be 2044 .

I think there are some things which are very basic um that women really value and women really want , which is safety okay safety and security , and that that comes in in a man's word right , right , his actions . Is he following up with what he actually says ? Okay , is he a doer or is he a talker ? Yeah , you see what I'm trying to say .

Yeah , there are lots of talkers . We can find talkers everywhere .

Johnna

Yeah , you're right , you're right Now , since you brought up the kind of the modern dating world , since it's 2024 , we're going to kind of touch on that a little bit , because my aunt stays on me but she she's older than me , so she stays on me about how I date .

So I guess , for example , you talk about like staying in your feminine energy , which we'll touch on in just a second so like when I'm dating in 2024 , it's very awkward when it comes down to pain , right , I know there's some women out there that are still like absolutely not the man will pay for everything .

I come from , I guess , because of my background and growing up very poor and not really being given a lot of gifts or not , you know it's , it's hard for me We've talked hard for me to receive gifts and so when I go on dates with people because I do have a well-paying job , it's hard for me to be like this was very expensive , like let me , let's go

half let's , you know , let's . So when is that Okay ? When is it okay to like ? Is it called Dutch ? Like when you go Dutch or something when you split the bill ? I don't know . Oh , I just thought it was 50 50 . It's called something . I could be completely wrong on that , but so when is it OK , like ?

When is that OK , like because it's modern dating , versus now it's not okay , because you're not staying in your feminine energy , I think either ways , this is , this is biology .

Meenu

Right , this is biology . And I'm sorry , men , if you disagree , then maybe I'm not talking to the right man , but if you're listening to this so inherently , from time and time and time I've coached women and men . I've known women and men all my life and I have noticed that men like to serve .

Okay , Healthy men like my life , and I have noticed that men like to serve . Okay , healthy men like to serve , they like to do things for you , they like to make sure you are provided for . Okay , I'm not saying financially , but even by other means , even if they can help you out here , if you know they like to do that .

Okay , they like to make life easier . So when a man , when you're going on a date , and if a man is not offering to pay and it's a little awkward and there's that awkward silence then okay , you can say do you want to split it ? Right , Do you want to split it ? But then if he is going ahead and paying , let him pay .

Ladies , Let him pay , Because , remember , men , the way their brains work is like oh , I've taken this gorgeous woman out on a date and I am paying for the dinner . It feels like an accomplishment for them . So when you get in your masculine energy and you're like no , no , no , I want to pay , you are robbing them off of their reward like their accomplishment .

Literally . That's what you're doing . You think you're doing them a favor , but you're not .

Johnna

Well , you know , that's been my whole life , yeah .

Meenu

So I would literally just let them do what they are good at doing . You do what you are good at doing right , like receive , because what exactly we talked about , even in our coaching session , is , like , receiving is very healthy .

It lets you know that you value yourself , it lets the man know that you value yourself and it's good for your nervous system to be in a calm state , in a nice environment and just receiving yeah . In a calm state , in a nice environment and just receiving yeah . And when ?

When women , especially overgiving men , overgiving women , when they're , like , used to constantly giving in their lives for them it might be harder to receive Right More a nervous system thing . It's not even a decision . You just have to train yourself to be calm and okay to receive yourself to become an okay to receive .

Johnna

When is it okay to like treat the man because they've given you , like they've taken you on several dates or expensive dates ? When is it okay for you , then , to reciprocate and be like no , I want to treat you like you've done so much for me , because that's just the type of person I am in general , like I'm just , like I'm a very giving person person .

Yeah , I'm just a generous like I just and it brings me joy too to be able to do that for someone else Um , and then you , and then , of course , being on Tik TOK I can't remember what it's called but there's all these men who are like no , we're in our something arrow , where women are paying for everything . So it's like when do you ?

when is it okay for that . Like when do you ?

Because like also don't want to be so selfish that every time a man's taking me out , we're going to expensive restaurants or to dinners or you know to activities that we're doing and then them in their head go , god , she's just , you know , she just wants me to take her to all these expensive things , and you know what I'm saying .

Like yeah , but again , again , right , it's like they have decided to do that yeah , but when I picked the place and it's expensive and I'm like you know what , I've decided I want three drinks tonight instead of one drink tonight . I'm over there in my head going oh , is he gonna think that I'm just like racking up his bill because it's on him ?

Meenu

yeah , again , you're getting into what he's thinking . You see what I'm saying . Yeah , but what if they are thinking that ? Let him . Let him Give him the opportunity to communicate that in a healthy way .

Johnna

I guess that's where I have the hard time being like hey , is this okay ?

Meenu

Yeah , and you can even ask that . You can even ask that in a playful way . You can even ask that , hey , I know that you want to get tonight's bill . I'm going to be hogging on drinks , is that ? Is that cool , you know ?

Just like gently being courteous , like I don't think there's anything wrong with that , and I don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting to take a man out and treat once in a while . I think that's really healthy . I think you have to be who you are . I don't think you should play by like all these rules .

I think these rules are extremely confusing and they can . I really think , the more more you are who you are , you radiate .

Johnna

Well , yeah , and like that , that is who I am , and like more . So . Like I'm just thinking like in general terms , like I'm not thinking about and I know everyone thinks differently . Like you said , it's biologically inherent in a man to do that , but like what's going through my mind is the economy is terrible . Things are expensive .

Like we both make the same amount of money . It's okay for me to also like hell , I'll pay for mine , you pay for yours . Like I don't have to pay for yours , Like you know , let's , let's split it 50 50 .

Meenu

Yeah , absolutely . I think either ways , jonna . I think it can be , however it has to be . I just think that there can be a fun conversation about it . I think there are playful conversations about it . I think it's okay . I think , at the end of the day , the comfort of both parties is more important than following a bunch of stupid rules .

Okay , like , for example , if I've known couples that do 50-50 , I also know couples that are like 50-50 . Hell , no , I'm never doing that for them and this works for them . So you can't you know , you can't just go by all these rules .

At the end of the day , you have to be okay into , like , doing what feels good to you , what feels good to your dynamic , but , at the same time , be on the receptive end and say okay to receiving sometimes , which is like , really , really healthy .

So I would say , finding a healthy balance of receiving and also stepping into doing what you really want well damn , you just took my signature , move away .

Johnna

It was always to pay for the first date because , like men don't expect it and I'm like no , no , I got it . And they're like , wait what ? And I'm like I got it , it's good . We're cool with gucci .

Meenu

Oh my , god , that's so funny it's normally to be funny .

Johnna

It's normally to be funny because , like and I have a guy friend that we went to brunch like a month ago or something and like we've been friends for since college and like , um , we hadn't hung out in a long time because he moved away and he came back and I was like I was like I got it . He was like no , I don't know , I got .

I was like it's my signature move , I've got it . And he said damn , that's a good move , though I mean , I think it can be .

Meenu

I think it can be , I think it's taboo so it can be attacked sometimes , you know what I mean . Like because women really don't do that . It's a little taboo , yeah , but I think , like it's , it's it's expected of men to pay society in a societal like pressure kind of way , and I guess I say this more like when I was like younger , going to the bars .

Johnna

It was more like if a guy came up to me and was like hey , can I buy you a drink , I'd be like no , I can buy you one though . So it wasn't like the dinner thing , like I don't typically pay for the dinner the first time and you're like I don't mind too , but like I typically .

It was more like when we were out at a bar or something and someone came up to me and was like hey , can I get you a drink ? And I was like no , but I can get you one right , right .

Meenu

No , I totally see . And that's the thing too , right , jonna ? It's like so interesting you brought that up because it's like your childhood plays a big part in this . Yeah , or upbringing plays a huge part in this , like . I'll give you an example for me , if a guy is taking me out and not paying , it's cringy and embarrassing .

It's just very , very , very embarrassing for him , not for me . My standard is in a way that if you're asking me out , you're paying . Yeah , I don't care , like see , my standard is in my head .

Johnna

I'm going oh my God , this is gonna be awkward . Who paid ? Does he pay ? Do I pay ? Do we split it half ?

Like that's what's going through my head on the first day and that's because I have such bad social anxiety like as you can see , I'm starting to talk really fast because I get really anxious when it comes to like meeting new people in general and so like .

By the time I remember going on a first date with this guy , you know , a couple months back , and like I was at work just being like I don't know , I don't know what to wear . What do I wear ? What do I do ? What if he doesn't want to pay ? What if I want to get a drink ? And they were like jonna and I was like this is you know what ?

I'm just gonna cancel . I was like I'm just not even gonna guess I was like because I had worked myself up so much just for this one little , and it was a great time yeah , exactly , exactly .

Meenu

I really do feel like you just have to be very calm and let it play itself out . If . If he's not paying , then split the bill , Like you know . Just just go with the flow in that , not in the relationship .

Johnna

Speaking of the great transition point , I know so you just mentioned three little words that I've been told several times when I've been dating and unfortunately they've all been in a negative way , like I didn't realize that until two years or three years down the line when I was going with the flow straight into a situation ship .

So and I do know that there are good guys out there that use that term that don't mean it that way but unfortunately for them , most women see it as a negative connotation . It is negative . So you explain what go with the flow means in your coaching world .

If a client came to you and said , hey , I just had this guy tell me , or this girl tell me she just wants to go with the flow , what does that mean to you ?

Meenu

It literally means that I am not ready to decide anything right now and I probably will not decide anytime soon . And I'm okay with doing whatever we're doing , whether that's having sex or just going on dates or whatever . I'm okay with that .

But I don't , I'm not , and almost like leaving it up to mystery or curiosity and not taking a stand on where they want it to be and what they want to do . Right , so that's very go with the flow is very , it's a very feminine response .

So when that comes from a man , it's very off putting and it's very there's all kinds of red flags because , you know , if there's no certainty , if there's no plan , if there's no intention , that itself that is an intention .

Johnna

Okay , well , that makes sense .

Meenu

Yeah , so I would . I would , if you're like listening to this and anybody listening to this , if you were told that this is exactly what it means , and if you're waiting around to see if they like you , that's on you , okay , that's on you . That was not what they said . They didn't say , oh please wait around for six more months , maybe I'll like you .

That's on you , okay , that's on you . That was not what they said . They didn't say oh , please wait around for six more months , maybe I'll like you , maybe I'll love you , maybe I'll commit in a relationship with you or marry you . That's a story you're building in your head and that may never happen .

So when somebody says , go with the flow , they literally mean they like the way things are . They are not ready to make decisions anytime soon .

Johnna

That's it . Like the way things are . They are not ready to make decisions anytime soon . That's it , and I like that . You like put it like that . Like I follow , like I said , ace metaphor . Who is a male coach , um , and he coaches to a lot of women about the male's perspective and he says it like in a very funny way .

He was like when any man says go with the flow to you , you immediately run . He was like cause , where are we going ? Where are we flowing ? Yeah , we're flowing down here , we flow , we're flowing down here into this situation . Where are we flowing ? Where are we going ?

He was like in , like that , like you said , it's very ambiguous , it's very like I'm not going to answer this question because I don't want you to leave , but I'm not going to tell you to leave . And like , and he says , in six months or two years down the road , when you finally ask the man like , hey , what are we doing ?

They can then say , hey , I told you exactly , I wasn't , I wasn't lying to you from jump street , I told you what was up exactly , decided to stay , just like you said . It's on it and it is on the female .

We have to start as females start taking ownership in that we have to start taking ownership in the part that we play , because the last guy that I had dated a couple years ago , like I , have to take accountability for the point that I stayed in that , knowing that he told me four weeks in I just want to go with the flow , you know , and I stayed for two

years thinking we were going to flow right into a relationship right , right , right .

Meenu

I think . That's where I think it's also . It's also very inherent and also prone . As a woman , you know , because you're told all these fairy tales when you're growing up that man like girl likes boy , boy likes girl , they get married . You know , it's so simple , right , the fairy tales are so simple .

They always have this like big fat happy ending , and you're always told this . So I think that's so deep rooted in our subconscious that you're just like , oh , he likes me , I like him , it'll all be fine . Yeah , unfortunately , we don't live in a simple time like that , right ?

You know , if intentions are not being set in in five or six weeks or four or five weeks , then then the intentions are being said . Just listen to them like , just hear it , just read between the lines . Right , we overthink for so many other things . Right , we should use some of that in this .

Johnna

And I think the biggest thing that you taught me like is to actually listen to what a man is saying , Like if a man says like I don't want a relationship right now , A lot of women focus on that right now portion , going okay , well , that means right now . So that probably means he will if I stay around , but we're not listening to what they said .

They said I don't want a relationship .

Meenu

Yeah , exactly , we're so focused on those last two words right now and also like and I hate to use the word pick me , but everybody becomes a pick me .

Yeah , what that energetically , what that means and let's talk about energy real quick sidebar it's like you know when , when you're like literally saying I need this , I don't have this , I need this , I need for him to pick me , I need for the universe to do this , I need , need , need .

It also portrays a very needy energy and that portrays a very needy energy and that is very repelling . That's very off-putting for anybody , even for you , like , even if you're a woman , like if you have a very , very needy man , it's , it's off-putting , it's nobody likes that , right ?

So I think when we decide that upon us energetically and say , oh , he's probably going to make the decision , like once he makes up his mind why , why is the ball in his court , why , why , right , what do you want ? You know it's like do what you want . Like if , if it feels like too much for you , don't stay in that , don't settle for less .

Johnna

Right , I agree , I agree . Now , when it comes to like dating and getting advice , whether it be from friends , from TikTok , from what , what are you , what are your thoughts surrounding that ?

Meenu

Don't get advice from friends .

Johnna

Which I knew you were going to say . I just wanted to like to hear . So why is it that you say not to get advice from your friends ? Because I know we as women , that's typically what we do , like if something's going on , we don't go straight to the source and ask .

We then go to our friends and ask , or we jump on TikTok looking at relationship coaches or whatnot . Why is that not a good idea ?

Meenu

Because your friend didn't have your childhood , your friend didn't have your trauma response , your friend didn't have your attachment patterns . Your friend is not dating who you're dating , so it's just completely different . They can be the bestest of your bestest friend and their attachment style and your attachment style will be drastically different .

So I just think that it's just not fair to yourself . You're not doing justice to yourself by getting advice from a source that , unfortunately , can't help you Right , can't help you right . This is the thing like do I talk to my friends ? Yes , I talk to my friends a lot . I share a lot of things with .

I'm very attached to my closest group of friends , but when it comes to taking advice , I always .

The way I take advice is like I'll listen , I'll go and ask three or four different people and then I'll sit down and meditate for a few days and decide what I want to do , right , not what they are saying , and which is what I think , jonna , we talked about in our session .

It's like I always like to give an example of a tree , which is if the tree is really strong , it's not going to get swayed by a tornado or a wind or a rain , and that tree is you right ?

If you're not strong , you're going to get swayed by other people's opinions , other people's judgments , other people's stories , which could be your friends , could be tiktok , could be instagram . You're going to get swayed in so many directions that you're going to lose connection to who you are and what matters to you and what your truth is right .

That is not good , because then , lost , you're going to listen to your friend and you're going to take their advice and do that , and then you're going to be like , why the fuck did I end up in this situation ? Like it's not who I am . I didn't want to do this in the first place .

So , even if you're somebody that , like , talks to your friends , bounces ideas which I do a lot I bounce things off my closest friends sometimes , and even when I do that , I'll bounce things off and I'll always sit with myself and be like does this align with me ? Does this align with my highest truth ?

Does my nervous system feel good when I make this decision ?

Johnna

Does that make sense ? Yeah , that makes a lot of sense . And you also said something in our session the other day that kind of hit a bell that I hadn't heard . You said , like sometimes we're going to our friends not for advice but to seek validation to make us feel better about something we did . Yes , exactly Because I want to do .

Meenu

Oh , absolutely , absolutely Like . It's so funny because me and my best friend we like , please don't do this , guys . We joke about this . And she'll be like oh my God , even if I murder someone tomorrow , I'm going to call you and we're going to remove the dead body . You know , like things like that . Yeah , look about it .

That doesn't mean I'm like supporting her decision . Right , it's a form of unconditional love . It's like , even if you were murdered and ended up in jail tomorrow , I'll come and visit you and I'll try to bail you out . It's just that doesn't mean I'm supporting their decision . So I think you know there needs to be some specificity there .

Right , it's like it's more for validation . It's more for validation , it's more for support . Maybe we don't feel supported as much and we just want to be held that space where we can share our things and we want to be heard . So we're just like oh , you know what ? I have this idea I really want to date this guy . I really want to do this thing .

What do you think ? You know they're going to say yes , because why will they say no ? Right , it's like it's an experience .

Johnna

They're going to say do it Right , right , and that's what my friends mostly say Like you know , cause I am so high strung , like I imagine that , but I do get in my head and like , create all these stories and it and that's just part of my personality and it's something that I have to accept , because I know when we were working together and it's something

that I would fight all the time and be like . But I don't want to be that person , but that is inherently who I am , because of my upbringing , because of my past . It just and I at some point I have to start accepting that and just being like okay , not everyone's gonna like this and I'm not going to be for everyone .

And that's something that I'm just now kind of . Even though we worked together a year ago and we still have intermittent sessions here and there , it's still like I'm just now getting to the point where I'm like , okay , I get that I'm not there yet , but I'm trying to be and I think , yeah , so go ahead now .

Just and that goes into dating as well like there's that there's not a lot of people that you know that I am for and I get that . So it's something that I'm just going to have to like , realize there's going to be a lot of rejection in the beginning until I come to like because I'm still healing .

It's crazy because dating really is all these unhealed people walking around dating each other and it's just like you're trying to figure yourself out but you're also trying to figure someone else out and like and that's why I think a lot of people do end in divorce divorce because we're all unhealed .

We get together , we stop working on ourselves because you're in that happy moment for that , for that moment . And then you realize two , three , four years down the road it's like okay , this isn't even what I wanted to begin with .

Meenu

I think you're also like dating for happiness . I think that's the biggest like marrying for happiness dating . Oh , this person completes me . I just hate that so much . It's like , oh yeah , no , you're a full person . You're like a full , complete person by yourself . So I think a lot of these things play into the picture .

Like you said , it's literally like unhealed trauma unhealed trauma walking in different directions and then just in that 45 minutes you're not talking about it , so nothing comes up . You think everything is great , everything is fine , but then when you get deeper into the layers , everything starts coming up .

So that's why I keep telling people like , in any stage of dating whether it's like intentional dating , whether it's unintentional dating , dating period like just have self awareness as to where you're at , what you want , you know what you're happy about , where you want to head .

And and , jonna , honestly with you , when you just a quick sidebar , when you said like oh , I'm still working on this , and I think that's like really healthy . I think if we have something that we're constantly working on , that's a huge sign of progress . That's good for our nervous system . We are being stretched to our out of comfort zones .

I think that's great . I think that's a very classic sign of growth and also there needs to be and I think you're doing a great job is a lot of self-acceptance too , saying that maybe this is who I am .

Yeah , I'm okay with that , because , at the end of the day , if you are really okay with who you are and how you're approaching and how you're being and showing up , trust me when I say everything is a reflection . The other person that comes into your life you're bound to like manifest somebody . That is okay with that .

Johnna

Instead of all of these unemotionally available men that I keep manifesting .

Meenu

Exactly Like , for example , I've always like my parents , like , even though my dad was the breadwinner and my mom was a homemaker , my dad still raised me to be quite strong , you know . So I've always had my voice . I've always asked for what I wanted . I'm the only child , so I'm quite spoiled in that way .

Right , I've always asked for what I wanted , and so , even with men , I've never been afraid , when I was dating to ask and say my childhood was exactly opposite of yours .

Johnna

It was I couldn't use my voice , I couldn't ask for things , because I didn't , I didn't want to bother my mom , I didn't want to bother her because she had so much other stuff to deal with that .

And now that we're talking about this , you know , every time we do a podcast it's like a therapy session in itself , because it's like oh , that makes a lot of sense , why I don't ? And then , but in my professional life and I had talked to my therapist about this too I was like why can I do this in my professional life but not my personal life ?

And she kind of said the same thing . She was like cause in your childhood you couldn't but when you have a professional life , it's you think about it Like , once you graduate , you're an infant , you're a baby . You're teaching yourself to do those things she said . So you taught yourself in that job to have a voice .

Meenu

Yes , absolutely , 1000% . Like , for example , you asking me to record this podcast with you is receiving . Yes , like receiving and you're receiving . So it's receiving doesn't have to come from a man . Receiving can come from anyone .

Right , warming up your nervous system to say , oh , it's absolutely safe for us to receive , even though we have never received in our childhood , even though we've never gotten anything because our parents were running around .

Like , it's still safe for me to get to that place to like receive , right , right , and I think , I think that's something that you're working on and I'm pretty sure you'll . You'll do great at it , just like you do everything else .

Johnna

If I ever do get married which is not the goal you'll be invited . You'll probably I'll let you ordain it . How about that ?

Meenu

I love that I would be so honored , but that's what I'm trying to say . Like you know that I would be so honored , but that's what I'm trying to say . Like you know everybody that I have been with . Every person that I have like dated or been with , I have 100% been myself , like I have been myself . If they didn't like it , then I'm sorry .

Boo , like yeah , yeah , because sometimes like men can find me a little bit um loud , more than not loud , but more like out there yeah same , and I let me go ahead like I've always been myself in dating .

Johnna

It just right . When it comes to like finding my voice and what I want , like if it's something like urgent or something like that , I'll obviously stand up for what I want to say , but it's things . It's more like these early dating , like I get in my head about messing things up or quote unquote ruining things , because I know in my head it's a lot .

So , like I just worry about ruining it in that early stage of dating which , again , like me and you have talked to , like , whatever your belief system is , religion , universe , whatever , like you can't really ruin something that's for you and that's something that I'm struggling to like .

I'm trying , like I'm trying to lean into that more because I do , you know , I do have faith that you know . So it's just like I'm trying to lean into that more , but I also have control issues .

Meenu

So , yes , I have to try to control it . Yeah , and you know what ? What will help ? I really feel like practice , just everything else . I feel like because , after a long gap , you started dating and I think it was like Whoa , what is this ? What are the rules , how do I do this , what do I say ?

I think it can be a lot , you know , but I think if you did it more regularly , without having too many expectations , I was like oh , I'm just gonna go out on a date with this guy because I want to practice .

Johnna

No , you're absolutely right . I've never had like a dating stage in my life , like because we've talked about and everyone who listens to this podcast knows like I quote unquote I don't know . I was in a situation for 17 years , so that was most of my adult life . So , I didn't start dating until gosh , probably four or five years ago , and it's and it's .

It's . So happens that the first person I date like I'm like , oh , okay , I actually really like it , because it takes a lot for someone to capture my attention , like , so , like to even get me on a date . You pretty much have to capture my attention . And so then I'm like , okay , yeah , I could see this going somewhere .

And then it's like , nah , they're like not really looking for that . I'm like what the hell man ?

Meenu

Yeah , I mean , it's okay to be picky too . I think it just shows that you have really good standards and I really do believe that , like , once you practice and start on an update , anybody that's listening to this if you're , you know , asking the same questions or have these same questions . You get really good at it by doing it .

You don't get good at it by going on TikTok . You don't get good at it by reading about it . You don't get good at it by talking to your friends about it . You only get good at it by doing it . This is one of those things that you have to do it .

Johnna

You have to have experience . You know , it's kind of like a job .

Meenu

Yeah , it's like watching workout videos and expecting the calories to burn , like wouldn't that be , it . If overthinking was a sport , I'm just , I just feel like everybody listening to this . I just feel like give yourself the room for trial and error . You do not have to be perfect . Nobody is ranking you at the end of the street .

Nobody is saying , oh my God , clap , clap , clap , she did such a good job First day , a 100 points for her . Nobody is doing that Right . Just relax . Put on your favorite dress , you know . Put on some nice perfume , go on a date , eat some good food and have a good time Like if you enjoy their company . That's a bonus .

Let's keep it at that for the first three to four weeks . If you don't enjoy their company in the first date , boom , dump it . Whoever it is an R woman like . If you can't even enjoy their company , which is the bare minimum right , it doesn't matter what else you have .

Johnna

Agreed , Agreed . No , I love that . I love all of this . So like the takeaways from this episode would just be like trusting yourself , trusting your intuition . You know um , get experience in dating , stop seeking advice from your friends , get rid of the expectations , try to stay in your feminine and run away from go with the flow , guys .

Meenu

That's what I would say .

Johnna

I guess the takeaways the highlight reels of this episode was I really , I always appreciate you doing this because I know you're so busy and your time is valuable , but I always appreciate , just like you know anything , that all this comes from personal experience , right ? So like I start like going through something like , oh , this would be a good podcast topic .

Oh , menu is a professional , she can help me , versus me just trying to ramble on about this .

Meenu

Yeah , no , I'm so happy that you know you have so many listeners . I have girl , I have listeners from Russia , I don't know like how the podcast . So I'm just happy . My podcast is like slowly growing and I'm having listeners from all around the world and it's exciting . So , guys , if you have enjoyed our episodes , please leave us a review , a rating .

You know , if you have any questions , feel free to dm jonna , feel free to dm me . We always do a lot of collaborations . Sometimes we may be off for a few months but we will come back and collaborate and do it . So any coaching questions are also appreciated , like I've started doing coaching on podcast now .

So if you know you're going through something relationship trauma , whatever it is you know you're going through something relationship trauma , whatever it is you know you can send me an email , you can send me a DM , you can send Jonna an email or a DM and we will make sure to record an episode and go through all of it .

And thank you guys so much for tuning into this .

Johnna

Yeah , thank you so much , guys , and Mimi Eustep will always be in the show notes , so you can just click on it and go straight to her page .

Meenu

Awesome and likewise always be in the show notes .

Johnna

So you can just click on it and go straight to her page . Awesome , and likewise no-transcript .

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