A Journey Through Filler Complications and Surgical Solutions

But I mentioned a couple weeks back that I had never officially sat down and just did a podcast on the details that led up to the eye surgery . I know there's been a few podcast episodes where I've mentioned it briefly , like with Brittany and things like that when we were talking about filler and aesthetics .

So today you're going to get the whole story , just one episode where you get the whole story on why I had a lower blepharoplasty . That's the official surgery name . So if you've been wondering or you're interested , this episode is for you . All right , guys , this is the episode where I'm just going to sit down and talk about my under eye surgery .

So the official term for the surgery that I had is a lower blepharoplasty and I had that performed in May of 2022 by a plastic surgeon here in Huntsville . So it's full body plastic surgeon , not an oculoplastic surgeon .

Oculoplastics does specialize in the under eye area and I have learned a lot more , even since having surgery two years ago , but what ultimately led to the surgery was in 20 I want to say 2016 . I think it was 2016 , could have been 2017 .

I had decided because I had entered the world of fillers and I had just started dabbling in lip filler and I was like I think I want under eye filler , I think I look tired all the time because I had like lines like in the corner of your eyes that everyone has guys . That is a normal thing . It wasn't like I had bags .

It wasn't like they were dark circles , it was just literally lines . I could cover them with concealer and they were pretty much gone . It was just me being stupid , looking back and dumb and young and not researching and , again , not being as educated as I am now about filler .

But anyways , I decided to get filler under my eyes and I went to an injector who uses Juvederm products and that will be important later . I don't want to skip ahead to what I know now , but we used a Juvederm product under my eye and I will also go ahead and preface this with this wasn't the injector's fault at all .

This was just how my body responded to the filler , which majority of population now that it's becoming more well known , um , kind of responds this way too , and I'm not . This is also not to sit here and say that everyone will respond this way , because I'm not an expert in filler .

I just know my own personal journey , um , but anyways , I got the filler under my eyes and literally the same day I I ended up with swelling at the top of my cheeks , like under my eyes , right below where the filler had been placed , and this I always say this every time . I do like an episode like this .

I'm like this actually would be a very good visual episode , because I'm pointing to my face a lot while I'm talking to kind of help the visualization . But anyways , it created what's called malar edema .

So if you just want to Google malar edema or festoon , it kind of created that on the top of my cheek , but it wasn't an official like quote unquote malar edema , because that typically happens as we age when your skin starts sagging and things like that . But this had created that from the filler , which at the time I did . We didn't know what was going on .

We were just like , oh wow , you're just carrying , because also with filler , it like pulls water . That's how it kind of plumps you up . It like holds on to a lot , it retains a lot of water . So initially we were just like , well , you just must be retaining a lot of water , so let's dissolve the filler . You're just having a poor response to it .

And I did use it , luckily , used a filler that you know you can dissolve . It's a hyaluronic acid filler with Juvederm products and fortunately there is an enzyme called hyaluronidase or hyaluronix that you can dissolve the fillers .

Anyways , they say that the dissolve dissolved , like the hyaluronics that you can dissolve fillers with , doesn't dissolve your own natural hyaluronic acid . I beg to differ and I'll say say that right now , just because the story I'm about to tell y'all .

Anyways , I went back to the injector and we were just doing small , small bits of dissolving and it would get better , but then , like two weeks later , it would come right back , and so we tried everything over the next course of a few years , so like . So that was 2016 or 17 . So 18 , 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , so that was five years . So five years before um .

So then , in that five year span , we tried um laser therapy . Like with the picosure , we tried laser therapy . Like with the PicoSure laser .

We tried oil therapy , which is like a ultrasound and heat , and then we tried temperature , which is a heated product that's supposed to like help tighten the skin without being invasive , and all that would like help for a brief period of time , like it would get better for like a couple of weeks .

And then it would like help for a brief period of time , like it would get better for like a couple weeks , and then it would just come back . So me looking at it wasn't as bad to everyone else as it was to me , because we're we're I cannot speak , we are our own worst critics .

But I would look in the mirror and just be like this doesn't look like my face . I don't love this . Like why do I look ? Like I'm 80 years old and I was like 27 at the time , I think . Um , so I was just .

It was just something that was very making me self-conscious about myself and I was like , how ironic , I did something to fix confidence and then I'm now self-conscious , but anyways , anyways , um . So I think then , like we tried that over like the course of two years and it just wasn't getting any better .

So I did then do some research on this situation and at the time there was not a lot of stuff on google or on the internet or on instagram . There was just not a lot of stuff like explaining , like complications of under eye filler could it create this malar edema ? And things like that . So I was just like I'm at a lost calls .

And then I was talking to a friend who did filler injections in Florida and she was like you really just need to go get all of it dissolved , like all of it needs to go away , because even though you're dissolving at the area of concern , your filler is still in there .

So I did some more research and then I went and saw an oculoplastic surgeon who does specialize in the eyes in Nashville , tennessee and he dissolved no , sorry , this was not the oculoplastic shit , this was just a facial plastic surgeon , cause I still wasn't aware that there was a special plastic surgeon for the eyes .

So I went to a facial plastic surgeon and he did dissolve all the filler under both eyes and like it took like probably five or six um bottles of Hyalinex . And let me tell y'all guys that stuff is not fun . It burns like the Dickens and it hurts .

It hurts worse than when you get filler , but you know , after that dissolving session it looked probably 80 percent better . So I was like , oh my gosh , it was the filler the whole time .

So like , definitely gave me confidence in knowing what the problem was and that it wasn't a structural problem at the time , it was a , you know , functional problem because I put the filler in there and that was what was causing it .

But after that session the facial plastic surgeon was like , look , you're not a good candidate for under eye filler , don't ever get it again . But basically is what he said . And I was like , oh , definitely not . Well , after that dissolving session . So when you dissolve it kind of swells a little bit anyway .

So when I left I thought , oh my gosh , the filler is gone . You know this looks so much more flush and you know I was super happy , like I said , well , that the half life of this enzyme to dissolve it is like 48 hours and then you have residual swelling for up to two weeks .

So after that initial two week period when I thought , oh my gosh , it's finally gone away because I was at the time didn't realize I was a little swollen and it looked more flush I was just like it's gone , it's gone . But after that two week mark , when all the swelling had went away and like the the now , now my under eyes are more hollow , I noticed .

So it kind of exaggerated the issue on the left eye and it was really that you could only ever see it on the left . It wasn't that you could see it on both and I was just like damn it , it's back . Like what are we going to do here ? So then I started just going for consultations . I was like doing some more research in Google .

I was like I think I'm going to end up having to have surgery . I was like this is just crazy . But in the meantime still trying lasers , still trying cause some , some people were telling me they thought it was just a hyperpigmentation issue because this one little area just was a little bit more hyperpigmented than the rest of my skin .

And um , but after that full dissolving session under my eyes and after the like swelling went away and everything like that , I noticed that my skin started looking very crepey . I started having like under eye wrinkles and more hollowness and I was like , well , now it looks worse than just having that little swelling on my cheeks . I was like what is going on ?

And , like I said earlier , people say that the hyaluronics can't dissolve your own natural tissue or your natural hyaluronic acid . I beg to differ , because I felt like my skin got looser . I felt like it just was not good .

But we also know that the under eye area is more sensitive and it does like it can get destroyed more easily , like that's why you have to be careful when you're putting on makeup and you have to be careful when you're um putting on eye creams and stuff like that , because you just have to be careful with that skin under your eyes .

But anyways , I started going to multiple different surgeons , to plastic surgeons , to just see what their idea was . If they thought all the filler was gone , what could it be ? And I remember in 2021 , I went to a plastic surgeon here and I was just like Okay , look , I'm tired of this .

It's been five , six years now , like I just don't want to deal with this anymore . What can we do ? And he was like you know , I do think this is probably like a surgical problem at this point , just because of all the dissolving that you've done has caused creepiness under your eyes and we need to really kind of tighten that skin back up .

And at that time I was like you know , I just I don't think I'm ready for surgery , I'm just not 100% committed to that , like I still think that there's something going on and that it can be fixed .

So I didn't decide to have surgery at that point and I did some more research and then I found Dr Parsa , who's an oculoplastics in Beverly Hills who actually specializes in this kind of complication where you get like malar edema bags after under eye filler .

And so I started following him on social media and like reading his published articles and things like that , where he actually explains that most people who go get under eye filler , like they're not candidates there's only , like he said , 10% of the population that is actual candidate for under eye filler .

And I was just like , wow , okay , I would be the one to do this , that's just my luck , um . But he also goes to further explain , like you really need to fully dissolve the filler and the only way to know if it's fully dissolved is to use an ultrasound .

So you ultrasound the area to look for the actual filler and once believed , with filler , you know people would be like , oh , come back every six to 12 months . It naturally dissolves on its own .

But what they're finding out now with research and after a filler has been out for a long time now that when people are going to get ultrasounds or MRIs of their face and stuff like that , they still have a lot of filler that's not breaking down Like , and some some of these people have been like I haven't had filler in 10 years and it's still there .

Um , but I was just doing all and I was like looking up his prices and he was ungodly expensive , obviously in Beverly Hills . I mean , don't get me wrong , his work is absolutely amazing . But I was not at that commitment level yet . So I was like let me still meet with some more plastic surgeons in Nashville , let me see what they think .

Maybe it's just we need to do a little bit more dissolving .

But again , like I said , at this time my tissue under the eye really did need to be tightened , so surgically tightened , and I was like , okay , so I waited another year and then I had tried some micro nataling under the eye at this point , some radio frequency micro nataling , because that's supposed to tighten the skin , and it did work .

But again , after like four to five months it just went back to what it was . So it was something that I was just gonna have to keep doing and keep doing so , ultimately , in 2022, .

I went back to the plastic surgeon , like at the beginning of the year that I had met in Huntsville , and I was like , okay , look , this is . I'm at the point where , like this is just really bothering me . Like you mentioned surgery last year , I was like do you think that's something that we can still do ?

And he looked at me and he was like I do think that you look like you could be a great surgical candidate . He was like however , my only hesitation is that you're so young . He was like because it does require scars on the face , because , again , he's a full body plastic surgeon .

He's not an oculoplastics , where oculoplastics can go into the eye and you're not left with any external scars . He was like I'm just very hesitant because you're so young . And at the time I was 33 or 34 , I think 33 when I went to see him and I was like okay , I get that Like you're trading one thing for another problem aesthetically .

And then he was like I really think . He was like I can do some more filler and camouflage this and you will not even notice . He was like I don't think you'll have the same response when I do it , because I don't use a cannula , because the first injector used a cannula . And he was like and I'll use a different product still , juvederm product .

And I was very hesitant , like my gut said don't do this . And we know to listen to our guts . And why I didn't , I don't know , but my gut told me not to do that . But I think I was just more convinced like okay , he knows what he's doing , he works with the body , he's a plastic surgeon .

Let's just give it one more go , worst case scenario , I just have to dissolve it . And so I was like sure , let's do it , with every fiber of my being actually screaming at me don't do this . Well , I did , and what do you think happened ? It got worse .

I started having more and more swelling under my eyes and so I think , went back to him like four months after the initial injections and was like okay , I was like I look , it's worse . I was like that we , like you , said I need surgery . I was like I'm at the point like nothing is working . I've tried everything , I'm just ready to have surgery .

And he was still very hesitant about how young I was , and stuff like that . Because and I finally just looked at him and I was like , look , what would you tell me if I was 45 or 50 ? And I came to you with this same exact problem . He said , oh , hands down , do surgery . And I was like , okay , well then we're doing surgery .

I was like , cause I'm not going to keep doing filler and dissolving . I was like that in itself is so expensive , and just the maintenance of filler , anyways , I said I'd rather just cut it be done , right . So I ended up having the surgery in May of 2022 .

Um , and my gut also at the time was like we should really dissolve all this filler that you just put in .

I was like , because everything that Dr Parsa is saying with his surgeries and his surgical candidates is that all of the filler has to be completely dissolved before the surgery , which makes sense because fillers in there to plump you , right , it's to expand the tissue .

So if you're cutting the skin to make it more tight , we don't want something under there that's , you know , causing the results to not be as good , right . And so the surgeon did not feel that that was necessary , because he said that he would take some of the filler out when he , you know , lifted the skin and stuff like that .

And I was like , okay , well , that makes sense If you're just going to take it out versus dissolving , I'd rather not pay to dissolve it and it hurts . I was like , just take it out when you open my you know skin before you reclose it .

And so I was very nervous about the surgery because I was like number one I don't want to look like a different person and I was like number two it's your face . If something happens , like you can't hide it . And I mean like there's always risk with surgery , right ? And it was like , and what if this doesn't fix it ? Then what's the solution ?

And so , remember , we didn't dissolve the filler . He said he would take it out and then we scheduled the surgery . So I do the surgery and he . So he does it kind of similar to Dr Parsa .

The only difference is Dr Parsa uses facial fat grafting to help put some like to fix the hollowness once you've dissolved the filler and stuff like that , because you can tighten the skin , but you can't like the hollowness once you've dissolved the filler and stuff like that , because you can tighten the skin but you can't like fix hollowness with surgery .

Blepharoplasties are typically used for either loose skin or like if you have too much fat under the eye , where they'll and it creates a bag and then they can remove the bag and tighten the skin .

We'll see I didn't have any bags other than that fluid bag and the reason I didn't mention this earlier but when I was doing my research with like in 2021 and Dr Parsa was explaining what causes this .

So our , if you've ever heard of the lymphatic system , everyone has a lymphatic system and just think about it like this when somebody explained it , it made sense . So we all know , like cancer patients , like breast cancer patients um , you , you know you're not supposed to take blood pressure .

Like , if you have a mastectomy , you're not supposed to take blood pressure on the side of the mastectomy or you're not supposed to start IVs on that side .

And the reason is is because you're at a higher risk for lymphedema if they have to remove some lymph nodes in the armpit area depending on what type of breast cancer and stuff like that because it can cause chronic swelling once you get lymphedema , cause chronic swelling once you get lymphedema . So Dr Parsa explains like with the face .

Like the face has the most lymphatic drainage in our body , just because of all the sinuses and things like that .

So from the inner corner of the eye to the outer corner of the eye to the tip of your nose , it makes a triangle and you have one on each side of your face and apparently that's where your most of your lymphatics is and that's where your sinuses sit .

So when your lymphatic system gets clogged or blocked , it creates edema on the face , in this case , that malar edema that elderly patients get um , and it's due to blocked lymphatic Um . Oh , and that's something else I had tried . I had tried , um lymphatic drainage massage , which it would get better , but it would just come back .

So it creates , like this area under the skin where fluid just sits because it can't drain out of the face due to the blockage , and in this case , filler being the blockage . So filler was blocking my lymphatic system and it was creating this edema because it had nowhere to go .

And that's why , like things would help it , because it would drain , but then it would come right back , it would just sit there . And so there's a few different ways you can fix that . Now , if it's true , like a structural malar edema as we age .

The only way to fix it currently which , shockingly , because I mean it's 2024 is to physically go cut the bag out . But then you'll , you're left with the scar on your cheek because they cut the fluid bag out and tighten the skin back up .

But if it's like a fluid issue , you can either surgically tighten the skin to decrease that space , um , so that fluid can't sit there . You can do laser therapy , microneedling it just depends on how severe the problem is , um . And then there was another thing that another surgeon had told me .

It's like a sclerotherapy type situation where you take the antibiotic doxycycline and inject it into the face and he says it burns like the Dickens , but it kind of makes the skin attached back down and it's just like a scarring . Is what you're trying to do ? To get it attached back ? Um , but anyways , I had the surgery in May 2022 . To get it attached back .

But anyways , I had the surgery in May 2022 . We didn't dissolve the filler and when I woke up I was like , oh , this isn't bad , I look the same . Okay , I hadn't started swelling yet , and then the next day , like , I woke up and my eyes were like completely closed and I felt like I look like an alien . I was like , oh my god , what did I do ?

But the area was gone . But I was also so very swollen but I was like , oh my God , what did I do ? But the area was gone , but I was also so very swollen but I was like , oh my gosh , this is promising that it's gone . I mean , I know we're going to have to wait the four to six weeks to see .

And so at four weeks , like most of the swelling had gone away . But then that little under eye on my left side , there was still a little bag there and I was like , no , it didn't help , you know . But you know , at my post-op appointments he was like , no , that you still have swelling . I think it's going to go away .

So at my six weeks follow up , everything was completely flat , the bags were gone . I could not have been happier . I was like , oh my God . I was like it worked , it's finally done , this nightmare is finally over . I mean , it only took me thousands and thousands of dollars , but I finally look like me again . I don't look different . The bag's just gone .

Um , I still have the little lines in my eyes because , again , like you're going to , and I was just like now I'm back to where I was , um , fast forward to February of this year . So from May 2022 to February 2024 , completely gone , normal , never saw . It was super happy . Couldn't have been more excited .

Well then , in February of this year , I come back from Disney and I noticed that the swelling is back and I was like you've got to be kidding me . I was like well , I did eat a lot , we drank some alcohol . I just got off a plane . I said maybe it's just swelling , because my hands and feet were swollen too .

I was like let's give it a couple of days , let's not panic .

Well , a couple of days goes by and it's not getting better . It's actually getting worse . And I was like what in the world ? So I make an appointment with my surgeon . He agrees , it's back . He was like I can fix this . He was like I think we just need to tighten the left side of the skin , we need to tighten that space just a little bit more .

And I was like are you sure we don't need to dissolve this filler ? Because I've done some more research ? And they say like usually and sometimes that's why people don't realize filler is causing this issue , because you can have filler for two to three years and it'd be completely fine .

And then it pop up because again , filler is going to migrate at some point . Like even if it's just minimal migration , it could then migrate into the blockage of the lymphatic system and then you have the swelling . So that's what I think happened to me .

I think that since we didn't dissolve the filler before the surgery , that like after surgery for almost two years it was completely fine , but I think it migrated a little bit and I think it then blocked my lymphatic system again and I was like , okay , that's it , I'm done .

But I had asked him I like don't you think we should dissolve this filler before um , we do anything else , just so we know , like , what we're looking at ? Cause who knows , like I could dissolve this filler . And then we realize everything should have been a little bit more tight and the skin is still kind of crepey because it was expanded over the um filler .

Um , he didn't so much agree . So I then again started doing more , more research and now , like this is when ultrasound therapy , like dissolving , is becoming more mainstream , so that you get all of it and you're not just guessing , because most of the time people are just guessing where the filler is . You can't really control what it does and doesn't dissolve .

I also found out now with later in my research that Juvederm fillers are the hardest to dissolve because of the Vicross um that they have created and I think it's like patented with them , like they have a Vicross material .

I don't know , don't quote me on that Um , but so I was doing some research on now I know there's the oculoplastic surgeon that deals specifically with the eyes . Now I know there's ultrasound guided dissolving so that we are not guessing and we know it's all gone . Um I .

So I researched an oculoplastics in um Nashville and I went to see him and he saw he has been in practice for , I think he said , 30 years and I was like , just , am I crazy ? I was like is this um ? I said I had the surgery . It was perfect for almost two years .

I said I know there's probably still filler in there and he was like , well , you should have dissolved the filler before excuse me , before the first surgery . And he was like , because I have seen this happen , he said I've seen this , you know where it's happened and we dissolve it and it's completely gone . So he was like let me get my ultrasound out .

So he ultrasounded my face and he was like oh yeah , you still got a lot of filler and it's mostly on this left side where you're having the issue . Like I had a huge clump of filler right where the swelling had been all these years , and so he dissolved everything under ultrasound . He re-imaged it and he was like I think I got it all .

I said it looks pretty much gone . He was like but I want you to come back in two weeks . We're going to re-ultrasound you make sure it's completely gone . So then I went back to Nashville . Two weeks later he re-ultrasounded my face . He was like nope , I still see nothing . And the swelling had already gotten 80% better in two weeks .

The right side the swelling completely went away . Like I had a little bit on the right side that you could barely see . It completely went away . The left side went got 80% better . So it was just 20% there and so he was like well , he was like . The only other thing he said cause I do see that it got better .

He was like so it obviously is the filler blocking your lymphatic system . He was like so there must be a little bit more there . He was like . He was like so there must be a little bit more there . He was like because it could be in between the skin or something . He said and it's not in those huge globs like we saw the first time .

He said maybe it's just like micro-dosed all throughout and like . He was like I can do one more span across the tissue and see if we get anything else . He said that's up to you , you know . He left that decision up to me . He said that's up to you , you know . He left that decision up to me . He said it may not do anything .

He was like but that's the only other thing I can think to do at this point . So I was like , sure , let's just hit it one more time and see . Well , then it got even . It improved even more after he did it the second time and so it was just there minimally . So then I went back for my follow-up .

He re-ultrasounded , confirmed no more filler in the face . Thank god , um , it's gone . It's gone . But it took a lot of dissolving , guys , if you think about it . I dissolved it um once or a few times with the initial injector . Then I went to Nashville and got it dissolved by the facial plastic surgeon , I know .

Then I got it put back in , but , um , that second half was not dissolved that time . So , um , it was still there and I , then I went to have my procedure with my original plastic surgeon .

So then I had the original or the second procedure to tighten the skin back up , cause it was still there a little bit , um , and that was just done , I think five weeks ago now , and it's pretty much got it gone . It's still 5% there , but I think this is the best it's going to be and I'm just going to have to accept it at this point .

But I went and saw

. I will say I went and saw an injector in Nashville , because there's this new technique called PRF it's platelet rich fibrin which is where they draw your own blood and then inject your own like stem cells and stuff like that back under the eyes to rejuvenate the tissue . It is not filler . There's no risk of blocking the lymphatic system .

Now , obviously there's risk with needles in your face and arteries and stuff like that , but not a risk of the lymphatic drainage system because there's no like substance , if that makes sense , the um , the actual filler , um clumping , or if you will cause it's blood .

But , um , so I was talking to her and she used to work in oculoplastics and I was just like , yeah , I was telling her this whole story that I just said on this podcast and bless her soul for listening to it . I condensed it , obviously , but um , she was like , yeah , I've seen this .

She was like , you know , under eye filler is not something to play with . She said also , you said you have an autoimmune disease , whether that be any autoimmune disease , but mine , specifically , with my thyroid .

She was like most people with autoimmune diseases have a difficult time with their lymphatics anyways , just clearing things out , she was like so you never want to use Juvederm products , especially if you have an autoimmune disease , because they hard .

It's harder for them to break down , clear out of your system Because you know they're supposed to naturally dissolve over time . And she also had mentioned that they're just hard to dissolve in general , even with the dissolving , just because of the Vicross product .

And I was like , well , that makes sense , because I've had to have this dissolve like 5,000 times and it even came back after my surgery . But I was like , can you explain to me why this little area hasn't completely gone away , if the whole time it was filler .

And now at this point it's been almost eight , nine years at this point , so she was like , yeah , so it was the filler initially . She was like that created that issue , she said .

But since it's been so many years and we've done a lot of things , she said you've had the filler , you dissolved it , you had it again , then you had surgery , then you had a second procedure . She said that's a lot of expanding of the tissue and shrinking , expanding and shrinking , expanding and shrinking .

So then what you've done , just like as we age , our tissue spans and , you know , shrinks because of things like weight loss , weight gain , our muscles moving as we age on our face and stuff like that , like all that fat pads are moving .

So as you age you start creating the space between your skin and your muscle where you can hold that fluid , kind of like I just said about the swelling in my face with the blockage of the lymphatic system . So she was like that . So you've now it now is a structural problem .

And again , you can't fix it if it's a structural problem , such as aging , unless you just go in and cut the eye bag out . But I can't do that . I'm too young , I don't have enough tissue to do that , such as a elderly person . You would just cut it out and it would fall into a wrinkle or a fold or something like that .

But she pretty much said no , I think this is as good as it's going to get . She was like , and honestly , does not even look bad at all .

She was like the only other thing , if you do anything at this point is the PRF under the eyes , which she said again , no risk of this ever happening again , because there's nothing to block the lymphatic system and it will just rejuvenate the eyes , she said .

In microneedling , she said just to tighten the skin , maybe once a year , so that that space does not come back . And I was just like okay , well , I was done with anything . Anyways , I was never going to put filler back under my eyes after all of this journey .

So I don't know if I'm going to do that procedure or not , because I do think it is as good as it's going to be and , as I said on my previous podcast , at some point we have to accept you know where we are in our journey whether that be anything aesthetic , weight loss , filler , anything and just kind of be like you know this is what

it is now . It's as good as it's going to get and I have to be accepting of that and it's part of my story now , so I can tell it to you on the podcast or I can just tell it to you in passing . But anyways , guys , this is just my story and my journey .

I am in no way saying that this is going to happen to everyone , or like , if you have under eye filler now , this eventually will happen to you . I'm not saying that . I'm just saying this is just what happened to me and in my in my journey .

I just want everyone to be cautious and just do their own research when it comes to filler in general and , just you know , make your own determinations instead of going off societal norms and things like that . But as always , guys , until next time . Bye , thank you .