Sprinkler Systems and Firefighters: A Powerful Partnership with Shane Ray

He's from the National Fire Sprinkler Association and he's not only the president of that organization but also a long time fire chief , firefighter and real expert in the field of fire extinguishment when it comes to fire protection systems in buildings .

And we've had Shane on before on our big box bulletin , which , by the way , is one of our most popular episodes we've ever put out , so we're happy to have you back . You're here right now doing a big box workshop at the AVBCTC in Phoenix . It was a great class today .

You're doing an awesome job delivering this message and this material , and I learned a lot today . How are you doing ?

But it's always good to be back with you guys hanging out , sharing the word and , as Josh said when we opened up today , we're just trying to make a little bit of a difference .

So , again , it's great having fire command officers , chief fire officers , operations tactical people sit in the room here , and especially those guys and gals that have been in prevention and things You know . It all opens their eyes .

Putting it together and , as I told them , that's what my mission is is to bring the fire protection world , the fire sprinkler contractor , the firefighters , fire chiefs , fire officers , fire marshals , fire sprinkler contractors , everybody to the table right and say , hey , this problem is all of ours to solve And the word is getting out . You've heard some successes .

Josh shared the success , maybe in an area We've heard from some of our friends in Minnesota that said , hey , we pulled up , we hooked up , we pumped the system , we were patient . So that's what we want .

It's like slow down , gather all your things together , make sure you can get to know and understand what you're dealing with and we're happy the word's getting out .

Know your buildings , know your first , do get out there , spend time in it . But the simple message is pull up , hookup . And then the second message is do not shut the system down until you're sure the fire's out . And that's one of the biggest things that we're trying to spread is one size don't fit all .

You don't operate the same way in a single family dwelling as you do a high rise . You don't operate the same way in a cracker barrel you do in a Walmart distribution center . You don't pull up to a cold storage warehouse and treat it the same way you would a 20,000 square foot mercantile ace hardware .

So all those things are where we're trying to get everybody to understand too that they're operating with many more sprinkler buildings than we've ever seen in our careers . There's been a 70% increase in the number of occupancies required to be protected with automatic sprinklers since 1980 . That's most of our careers .

And then you think , well , everybody's got it , but it's like . No , like you said , there's a whole new group of firefighters , whole new group of apparatus operators , whole new group of fire marshals , incident commanders , fire chiefs , city government . It's like our message will never stop .

And then you got threw out some things that , like the one thing you already said the fire department connection . we need to pull up and hook up .

So when you said that , i was watching pretty close , we got 42 , 3 , i think people ended up in this class , almost every person in the room stopped and wrote that down And it's like , well , that's a win , right , it seems like common sense .

but it's not so common sense because you know , we're hearing on the other side of the events where they pull up , got called to a fire alarm drop , it turns into a fire . They didn't hook to the fire department connection . And then they get too far down , not too far down the road .

they get down the path so far that they just totally forget because other critical factors start popping up . So it comes , that whole thing , i think , comes back to once . you know , you know , and that's this message you're telling them facts , i think is what you said . Hey , i'm telling you facts . you got to make your own decisions .

But I think that's where it ties back to the strategic decision-making model of the critical factors . The house fire isn't the big box , isn't the high rise , isn't the mobile home on fire , but those are all different critical factors And that's where we have to start with the decision-making .

So you know , when we go to a hazmat incident , we treat it different too And you know we always bring up the EMS incident right , like chest pains . Well , when you get the chest pains , you don't just shock them , you evaluate the critical factors , if you will , or what the patients show it with .

Well , when we pull up on a building fire , far too often we get pulled into what we do all the time , which we know those statistics are 80 or so per cent or residential type buildings and we're not making decisions . So hopefully , these , i guess I think really like five or six things .

Shane is , if they just do these five or six things , they're going to be much more successful on a big box And hopefully they can take those facts , figure out how they plug them into their own organization and make that make sense , shane .

A lot of people spend a lot of time putting them together for a reason .

And then two to simply summarize those when you , when you supply them with the information that says , hey , when you pull up hookup , do not shut the sprinkler system down , to improve visibility , right , and to try to get away from this cold smoke you heard me pushing all day that says , hey , this smoke is pressurized , it's hot , especially in these big box

facilities , especially in these gigantic distribution centers . It's like there's still a lot of fire in that piece . So pull up hookup , don't shut down , do not ventilate . The sprinkler system is not made to function with ventilation . There has to be a lid on it , right ?

That's how it collects the heat to do its job is because there's something above it that pushes the heat down to where it is to operate .

And so when you get those things and then two , once you do get to where visibility improves in the building , then it says in 13E when to start doing manual control ventilation , but during that time do not shut the sprinkler off . And then the most shocking thing I find is I travel around and work with my colleagues still in the business .

It's like you know what . They had no idea that million square foot facility is supposed to operate for two hours on its own . Am I saying , stand outside and wait for two hours and let her work ? It's like no , you've got a lot of things to do . Get somebody to the fire pump . Make sure it's running , make sure it's holding pressure .

Get somebody to the riser . Make sure the riser that you know in this bank of eight risers okay , these two are flowing water or only one's flowing water or find out what that is and then isolate that area . So you know , this is my fire area . Somewhere between here and the other side of that building is where this fire is .

It's not 600 feet to the left or 600 feet to the right . It's probably right straight ahead in this area . So everybody has been I mean , it's just good to see them hungry for the information . It's so rewarding for me to get the feedback that says , hey , i didn't know that and I want more . And that's where , again , blue card .

Thank you for what you all are doing and be shifter , for getting the word out , because it is making a difference . We're seeing saves and anytime you can have a success on this that don't spike the charts , that says , oh , we had a $750 million loss .

Both of those people got over 25 years in the fire department and both of them worked for fire departments that got over 20 fire stations , and it's like , yeah , we have to do something different .

But I think it probably aligns with something you said that 70 or 80% increase in these sprinkler buildings being put up all over the country and we're seeing a spike in the events that were going there , just because there's gonna

be events . And now there's sprinkler systems and we're just not as familiar with it as you know that we really should be . So I think it's though it's not new . I think whatever 1905 , whatever the number was , that's irrelevant really , i guess , but it's not new . It's something that we're just seeing more . So it's on our radar .

So we're trying to do something with it And for us , if everybody leaves here with one thing and it makes a difference , then it's a win .

A residential , a high rise , like we said , we don't want you to turn the sprinkler off in the distribution centers or those with automated retrieval systems . It's like , let the sprinkler work until you know that you can get visibility and you can see .

But if you go to Hampton Inn and there's a e-cigarette on a bed and you walk in and it's like , hey , this fire is contained in the room of origin . I got an inch and three quarter hose line in the hallway with a backup line at the stairs . Okay , let's go to each floor at the end of the hallway and shut that floor control valve .

Because when we shut the floor control valve off , open the main drain in that floor control valve , we'll stop the water damage and we won't ruin a bunch of rooms . But when the Walmart's on fire and it's got flames licking the ceiling , everything in that thing's probably gonna be thrown out .

And so when you do that , it's like that's where we're putting on the burden that says , hey , don't get caught with your pants down . You can walk in the front of the store , see a fire in the back And it's like , whoa , i got this .

It's like , no , it's gonna get nasty and ugly in there in about 10 minutes And in that big box within a half hour or an hour you're gonna lose visibility in almost all of it . You gotta plan for those things , but unfortunately which is good thing we don't have a lot of experience with operating in that environment . So we're getting more of that .

We're trying to do some training . We have our valve trailers . So we have a valve trailer in the Chicago land area , new Jersey , have one in Tennessee and one in Maryland , about to put one in Milwaukee . So again , we're trying to get these out .

We're trying to work with fire departments also on their training centers to get them to where it's like okay , have your wet pipe and a dry pipe and a fire department connection So you can just get your people comfortable , so they're not intimidated when they pull up and say , oh , i'm not supposed to touch that .

It's like well , hey , there's times when we don't want you to touch it , but there's times when we want you to turn it off . So how do you make the difference between that ? And I think this program has certainly been good to help us get that word out and making them hungry for more .

And most recently I think in the last few days , there was a question put out of who's training your chiefs or command staff . And I think that's something to be careful with .

And for us , if we're talking about sprinkler buildings , we want the National Fire Sprinklers Association , people there that know about the system , right , and there's a lot of things going on out there with well , if you have pull up and there's a fire pump , don't hook to the fire department connection , and it's like well , who's saying that ?

Where is that coming from ? What does that really mean ? And I mean there's somebody in this class that

said that today . Like , well , we were told that if there's a fire pump that we never hook to it , and it's like , well , how do you know what's really going on with the fire pump ? And you've hit on that a bunch of well , what happens when that thing shuts down ? or it's not really doing what it's supposed to , or somebody shut a valve .

And it's just taking me to the next thing , or something that has been said at all three or four of these workshops we've done with you . All is well , when you pump the fire department connection , you're bypassing the pump anyway because you're pumping over the top of it . Well , they didn't know that .

And when that question comes up , it's like well , who told you that ? So it just comes back to like who's training your firefighters ? Which just brings me back to the . We should be connecting with the people who know and it's facts , not somebody out there who , for whatever reason , is spooing their opinion .

It's a 2,500 gallon a minute pump in some of those , yeah , but some of them it's only a thousand gallon a minute pump . But you don't know , in the 2,500 gallon a minute or the thousand gallon a minute pump whether the system's been overrun or not . And so we did the research . We showed the videos today .

We did the research at X sprinkler in a typical occupancy that's a building with a mechanic shop . And so it's like , hey , it activated . We purposely had the system turned off and it activated all the sprinklers in the space . But we put one , two and a half inch connection and within three minutes the fire was under control .

And so it's like that's why you hook up . It is there to supplement the capabilities that's already there . And again , we're hearing more and more stories And if you're out there listening it's like share those stories with us . We love to promote the success . Every Friday I put out an email called spotlight on sprinklers .

It goes to all of our members that again tries to dial the fire department into the sprinkler world and vice versa , right , so that the sprinkler people understand the fire . Dan Madrakowski said Shane , you're the man in the middle here .

It's like you got the sprinkler folks who don't necessarily understand the fire And you have the fire folks who don't understand the sprinkler . So it's like , hey , that's what I do every day . I get up as let's go bring that all together , cause , you know , we do have the solution .

We do have the solution to keep people from dining and buildings , and we have the solution to keep firefighters from dining and buildings And we dang sure can mitigate all of their exposures by getting water on the fire fast . And that again goes back to I was just in South Carolina and that goes back to Spartanburg burns . It was nine years ago .

One of our instructors there shared Hey , here's a picture of you standing in the street nine years ago . And I'm like and unfortunately we've had some firefighter fatalities since then I'm like they probably didn't even know about Spartanburg burns . And when we do that , that's where I do take that personal . I'm like you know what ? We fail , we let them down .

But then I come here and I hear Hey , in Arizona we're still using thinking firefighters , which is from Spartanburg burns to train our firefighters here in Arizona as a state class . So I'm like say it's , it's working and we're all doing good . We're just trying to get the message out and make a difference .

If we can save a firefighter , save some property and save some occupants , good for everybody .

The fire officer is standing in one room of the trailer . He can see and access the valves , he knows what it's flowing , he knows the valves are either open or closed .

We can create a scenario to drop the pressure or change the pressure Firefighter in the next room , which simulates the stairwell , or where the control valves are in another part of the building .

And so again , we'd like to have the pump operator at the apparatus , fire officer at the riser , firefighter in the hallway , in the stand hallway or the stairwell , and then the incident commander in the command post that says , hey , what happened ? What happened ? I lost pressure or it's holding at 150 PSI .

Right , pull up , hook up at 150 PSI , unless there's a sign marking the building that says , hey , pump this at 230 , pump it at 300 , whatever the case is . So that's where , again , those trailers and we get them out . Our New Jersey team , our Chicago team . They've been doing that for a number of years , training on 13 E , nmp 13 E specifically .

So we're wanting to just spread that across the country and keep these trailers on the road So again we can mitigate the loss and , most of all , say firefighters lives . I do not want a firefighter dying in one of these buildings .

So if you're in that region or you're going to make it to the conference , that's another place you'd be able to see that work .

One of the quotes and I wrote down a bunch of quotes today , but one of the great quotes when the building is on fire , you're going to be the last one to the show . Don't ruin the ending . Talk about that quote a little bit . And what do you mean by ?

And the fire environment is so much different than it was a decade ago and it's going to be much different a decade from now , and so that's where it's so important that says hey , there's been somebody that's invested in this thing , it's on fire , there's an event in there , and we believe we have a fire a week in these type of facilities that the sprinklers

contain the fire , so we know that they work . Our effectiveness rate , as I show , is over 96% , has been for 100 years , and so again , we want that training and interaction to know that says hey , make sure this show , as I say too , you didn't cause the fire , you didn't , you didn't create the environment that it's in those kind of things .

Let's just make it all work . And , as we say , we do a program called partners in progress , that's fire sprinklers and firefighters and unbeatable team . And when you combine us together . Like I said , we got the solution .

But I also say we are never saying that we replace the firefighter right , because , as I said today , we're here to control this event . So it's control , not totally extinguish control .

And so that's where the first five minutes get command established , get somebody to the riser , get somebody to identify where the fire is before you lose all visibility , and get somebody to the fire pump . If there's a separate fire pump building and tank , get somebody that . Make sure that'll determine the next five hours .

And over the next five hours , you know , the first 60 minutes , 90 minutes or two hours , depending on the building , is what's going to make a difference in that .

So you're going to need a lot of logistics and things , but also would add to that now that says if you mess up the first five minutes or the next five hours , you're going to be there for five days , and that's the last thing you want .

Are they going at this like it's a residential fire without a fire protection system , or where do you see the breakdown at that ?

So , again , that's where we're seeing and most people just don't know . They just don't know that the system , that that sprinkler is flowing 250 gallons of water a minute , right , they're like whoa , i'm like , well , it's rated to flow at its pressure , 160 gallons a minute , but when the pump's flowing , pumping 177 psi , it's flowing way more water than that .

And so they just don't know the fact that , hey , this thing's designed to run two hours by itself or in a walmart store . Right , it's like there's going to be several of those sprinklers operate in that walmart store because the commodities have changed the configurations of how we put used to . You could buy one roll of paper towels .

You can't hardly do that , no more . Right , you're getting the double jumbo roll , right . So that's where they're setting these places on fire the fireworks , the charcoal lighter , the .

That's where they're setting these buildings on fire and it takes several sprinklers to contain that , and it's not a very nice environment in there , and that's why we're advocating look , we don't want to kill anybody in these buildings because they don't have to die .

The sprinkler system when that sprinkler system goes off because the fire is happening , and then we get notified there , the sprinkler system's calling from u2-8 lines already been stretched , water's on the fire , right ? the sprinkler system just saying , hey , i'm gonna need a little help here .

To finish mopping this thing up , which you know , i remember bruno saying that 15 years ago , when we go to these big boxes , we're the overhaulers , we're not , we are not like the 100 percent fire expression , we're the overhaulers at these events , and i'll never forget him saying over and over and over again sometimes , when you look at history , it might have

been better if the fire department didn't show up . And we've got some cases like where the fire department got called . You know , on monday morning workers showed up , our building's full of smoke and there's water everywhere and the fire was on .

You know , saturday night , for whatever reason , the alarm system didn't notify or whatever , and sure enough , the fire was , you know , contained by the sprinkler system . So the sprinkler system i think it's just another way for us to think about it that when that sprinkler system goes off , the first line's already been stretched .

There's water on the fire which comes down to your you know the fastest water thing . But i think the firemen out there , all of us officers , chiefs , whoever we got to think about that , that when there's water flowing already , that that's what buys us a little time to put together a plan . What's this really look like ?

because we're going to be there for a while . Which lines back up for that ? what are we going to do in the first five minutes ?

i ain't stretching a 200 foot cross , lay in there and solving this thing and being back at quarters for dinner , right you , we're going to be here for a little while , no matter what yeah , and , like our logo , we got a campaign called fire sprinklers .

So it's like we got to take that piece serious and even then , you know , i show those videos of the residential , of us doing the test burns with in conjunction with the energy code . This house is built of the energy code . It is nasty in there . You're going to need to rescue people .

You're going to need to get to them and isolate yourself from the fire , probably get them out a window or something .

So it's a much different fire environment and that's where i think that , again , get on the scene , hook up , supply the system , get your people to the riser , find where the fire areas , isolate that area , make sure the pumps running if it's got a pump , if it's that big of a facility , all those things .

So again , it seems pretty simple , but we're not used to operating in it and i can't encourage you enough get out there , meet the sprinkler contractors putting the sprinklers in the building .

Get with the building owners , their maintenance facility people , and work with them to know and understand your buildings and your systems , because they're all there to help you well , we will put a link in our show notes so you can sign up for Shane's email that comes out on Friday .

So , shane , just thank you so much for the partnership with the national fire sprinkler association and for being here and and participating in this , because it really is helping move the fire service along glad to do it we got one last opportunity in 2023 to see the big box workshop .

Continue sending this message , trying to make a difference yeah , come hang out with us , we'll have fun all right , thanks , shane .

Until next time , thanks for watching and listening to bshifter .