Ask The Chiefs: The Zen Edition

And they said if you see it go to purple , then you will be cooked within the next two to three seconds . It will heat up very quickly And just you're going to explode into flame Really . And so when you see it coming and it goes purple , maybe close your eyes for your gratitude , whatever before the end , and then you're going to meet your people .

. Mindfulness is a hot topic in the first responder community for mental health . What are your thoughts on its effectiveness ? Do you use it personally And in your opinion , are there benefits for improving incident commander performance not just mental health recovery , but resilience ? You guys think about that .

I got hooked into yoga , for whatever reason , very quickly , so me and another friend of mine who had retired were discussing what to do to stay in shape X , y and Z And so , growing up in the fire service and the traditional roles that we filled it was more of whiskey and football would describe our past time in activities , whereas really at this point in my

life , i think that's somewhat toxic . It's not good for your brain either . One of those activities . So you should really experience some moderation with that kind of stuff .

And what I find , as far as this question goes , and just kind of your own mental health , that worked better for me was yoga , and cannabis really were a better way to move forward , and so I think I'm in better health today than I was in 2009 when I retired . I feel better , and a lot of that is just kind of it's your mental outlook .

There's also a big piece of it . So , between that and working on that and sleeping , getting eight hours of sleep and drinking plenty of fluids all the silly bullshit we used to tell people on EMS calls sleep eight hours , drink plenty of fluids . It was the best advice we could have given anybody .

I mean , it's really kind of the key to life , and so I'm kind of following my advice . Now To answer this question yes , and I think it will make you a better IC , because it makes you a better person . You're a little more patient , you're a little more I don't know mature in the way you deal with pressures and issues that come up during the day .

That's just kind of the way I am in my life . But yeah , i think you have to have a if you don't have a quiet place to go to . wherever you , however , you get there and you hear that noise all the time . And I think that's when I watch TV nowadays , even if I'm not really watching . I watch something that just I'm not even paying attention .

It's more like background noise .

Right , he wanted that to be included in our wellness program , where at the time being a knucklehead that I was when I heard wellness first thing , i thought , oh , i'm gonna have to do more pushups and increase my bench or box steps or whatever . But he was talking about total wellness the physical wellness and the mental wellness .

So yeah in fact he brought in people over our career . Some of them were successful and they connected with firefighters and some of them weren't successful , they didn't connect with firefighters .

I know that in Houston we had a wonderful man , a doctor , dr Busser , who that I was able to connect with while I was there and he was really concerned about the mindfulness of our employees in Houston And he did a really good job there . He helped me out as a chief officer .

So as a chief officer you spend a lot of time alone and thinking about the decisions you make and the next one you're gonna have to make and kind of having somebody to bounce that off of that isn't critical kinda . That was good for me , but I think that was part of that mental wellness . So I didn't realize what he was doing at the time .

I can do X , y and Z And as you start getting older and accumulate more experiences , i came to find out I thought there's not a lot of difference like in a firefighter's capability of doing their job , between being able to bench press 250 pounds and 500 pounds . You do about the same thing , so one of them's just you're just getting stronger to get stronger .

In fact , i saw a thing they were talking about a quarterback , the Eagles quarterback , and how much he could squat . It was during a football game and Troy Eggman's commentator , who was the Cowboys Hall of Fame quarterback , and he's like why is he do that ? He's thinking why he's a quarterback .

And then , like , five plays later , this guy runs through 11 people and scores it . That's why he does it . He's collecting brain trauma right now . That's what it's happening to him . So I think That's the other thing is , when you retire , is you kind of think , okay , i'm retired and now I want to be as healthy as I can as long as I can ?

So that was the other piece of it . as I retired I thought , well , i'm not in the greatest shape of the world , so maybe I can work on that .

So part of the yoga thing is that's got me into fitness again , and so I think that's part of it is you do a little something physical every day to get your blood going and moving And I've noticed I feel a lot healthier now because of that .

I've blighter , i got my joints don't ache as much , and I think that adds a little more gratitude to your life when you go to bed at night So you sleep a little better . You think now you know like life isn't as bullshit as it everybody says it is . Well , you turn the TV on and that's what they're screaming at . you think now you're You .

people don't live in the same zip code .

It was stressful just watching as I look over at it . Chief is , i need to Use some yoga , right there exactly , yeah , yeah , you could watch basketball instead .

But to get back to the question about the IC effectiveness , because I Used to watch some of the ICs that I really admired and they had a routine they'd go through and they were calm , good ICs , but like one of them would always put a dip in I knew when that always smoked . But you know , i tried to emulate .

I still do like if I'm going to a call I'll pop in a piece of gum because it just calms me down . I mean it just like I'm enjoying the piece of gum now And I'm not really thinking about the call until I get there .

But what other techniques would you say would Really help an incident commander get into the brain space they need to be in , whether it's before a shift or even on the way to that ?

Do you sound like you have a high anxiety ? You got to identify the problem , right , is it ? do you get excited at certain points ? because everybody knows when the incident commander Sounds excited , then everybody else kind of gets revved up .

For me , it was always that the two things that I kind of think of every day is , well , i think a three of them , but the two that apply here is patience and being the present . Right , because I'm really an impatient person , it's I'm always .

Even when someone's talking to me , it's like , well , i'm getting ready to , okay , i got to walk this way , i got to go do this , i got to think about the next moment .

And then being a present , where you're at man , just trying to , without being too cosmic , just trying to enjoy the space that you're , that you're in , right there , and I think in it for an incident commander . That's really important too is to not get too frustrated with The position you're in , but just kind of be present where you're at .

So those are kind of my . I don't know if that answered the question , but that's the two things that I think about that that are my Achilles heels is I don't get too excited about things just because I'm on my third marriage . I mean , what are they gonna ?

But I I really believe that You got to kind of identify your weaknesses , so , and sometimes the weakness in this is just not taking the time to identify that , hey , i need to take time out . So you know some , some people , it's , it's there , they take long walks or they ride mountain bikes Or they do something you got .

kind of jack you up a little bit , especially working on a ladder , because you had so Many options for what you were going to do . And you got there , and so I find myself starting to get okay , okay and I learned , is you just kind of close your eyes ?

and you took three really Subsequently deeper breaths and I would do that and I would look up and it could be as nasty as it wanted to , and I thought , you know , i didn't like it . I showed up to help . So it put me what it did . Is it forced me to Take a step back , kind of like you said , and figure out Okay , what are we going to actually do ?

So , and that was that . Was this like a task-level Supervisor ? that was , i wasn't taking command , i was going to work . When I became a BC , i would use the same things as I thought , okay , i got a blah , blah , blah and I don't know .

I just there was something about being an incident commander That was just so much better and easier than being a company officer , and I don't know , i just liked it more . Yeah so I could .

I enjoyed pulling up to the scene of all this chaos and looking at it And thinking these two or three things are going to solve this whole problem , and then calmly telling people to do those two or three things and then watching everything get better . So and you know , and that would Reinforce itself over and over again .

So each subsequent incident , it was just you just kept building on the last . And then I mean and this kind of starts to go into the next question About seniority that Vance hasn't asked yet , but see , i Is it was the execution of doing the work . And then I figured out on the task level , the work is very physical and we're gonna go and we're gonna .

We're fighters . That's really what we are . We're going into a hostile place and we're gonna make the hostility go away . Or behave is what the deal is . If we can , and sometimes we overestimate our ability to tame a force of nature like fire , because it it'll burn you to death right , kind of like the purple light in the sky .

Oh , once it lights up , you're done , you're a speck .

right So ?

You get a little anxious with that , you do . You got to actually physically calm yourself down . Now It's nice in our system We had a partner and I had a great partner , sid Norwood , who would calm me down . I mean , he just had that kind of common effect because I don't know .

You just one of those guys that we're gonna be okay , terry , we're gonna be okay , and And you think about your plan , your next move and once you , and then you , you understand it . That's your action . Like you said , you would identify two or three things that we're gonna put this fire out . So now you have your action ready to go .

Your action may not be , you know , climbing a ladder , but your action is gonna sign these companies to help solve this problem . Brunisini used to say something kind of interesting . He said if the fire makes you crazy , face the other direction Mm-hmm .

You know , i didn't start this , i'm just here to fix it and they're counting on me to be calm and stuff , and generally I am . The only time I really feel jacked up as an icy is when it's stuff I don't do on a normal basis .

So like a technical rescue and we've got to get four Construction workers out of a ditch that are trying to dig their buddy out , and those are the things that kind of ramp me up . A Structure fire I like going to structure fires . I mean that's one of my wife always says you know What's a good fire ?

because we're always talking about well , that was a good fire . It's like , is there a good fire ? No , there really isn't . But you know , for us there is , when it goes well and everybody's safe and you can stop property loss . But I think that the prep for that , the going into it , there's just a couple of things I do .

Number one You got to enjoy life and be mindful about that and be grateful for what you have . I do sensory deprivation .

So I don't know if you've ever been to one of the since and I can feel my body get tense a lot of times And if I , if I get to that point , it's about a hundred bucks for an hour and you go into a tank And you float and all the lights are off and it's an hour of meditation and I end up falling asleep .

I mean , you , you're meditating so deeply and when you really do it and can get everything off your mind , you will go to sleep and you , i wake up , are you ? floating in like water , salt water .

They don't want me in there .

But , I think I think that you know having those kind of things that you do that just chill you out , and that you know I'm not I'm not much into like getting massages or doing spa type of things , but that's a nice alone time to really get you centered And I totally recommend it If you have a chance to do sensory deprivation or a float tank or a float

spot . I do .

this I see . So one of the things that because Nick hit it , you know we got to help this guy out is a pencil and a piece of , and your your worksheet or a piece of paper and writing some things down .

When you're waiting , when you feel yourself get anxious , and because what makes you anxious is that it does it with me in meetings also is somebody's talking , and this is part of what I need to do is if I want to jump in and and and say what I got to say , and instead I just write it down , i go OK , i'm not going to forget that . Now We're down .

You know , did you poop or whatever that , whatever that thought was going to be , and that's a good , that's a good point . That might be something that would help a young IC is to just have something where you can make sure , because what's making an IC agitated ?

or the fire itself , but really the fact that they want to do a really good job and they don't want to miss something . They obviously don't want people to get hurt and that's part of it . If somebody does get hurt , certainly don't want it to be their fault . So just kind of some skills that make you a better IC .

So the better you become , the more comfortable you're going to feel in that position . I don't know .

So there's nothing you can really do about that as it's going on , other than just kind of control yourself , i guess . And then what ? whatever it is that's not going the way it should is figuring out how to do it . It's not going the way it should is figuring out how to correct that .

So , but as an IC , that's not your job is to tell somebody how to execute a task level evolution , right , i mean that we don't do use the tactical channel for that .

So , so , really , i think , other than that , most of it , though , was like , when you got there , like if the fire is starting to jack you up because it's just burning and destroying stuff , is that thing getting me going ? so much is because , during , that thing is really that's like . Don't look at it If it makes you crazy .

You got to figure out OK , i need to cut it off here and here , and then do this and that , and here's kind of the timing and the sequence of how that looks like .

So you're , i didn't get antsy because I'm sitting there in an action plan and thinking , ok , we've got to do this , this and this , and so then his company starts staging and you start assigning them . Then it almost turned into a game . To be honest with you , i enjoyed that part of it .

It was almost , and you're not saying it's a chess game , but it's like no , i kind of looked at it that way and it went a lot better when I could disassociate my ego and self and just stand back and clinically say this , this and this has to happen here . So that's what I spent a lot of my time doing in the front end of it .

And then once our company starts staging the other good piece of this for us at least , and you said it we had a partner , but we didn't get there first , as we got there second , third , fourth , fifth , so you didn't have a lot of time to obsess because you were processing the information ahead of time .

So if you're responding to the thing as a BC and you're waiting for Engine 13 to clear alarm , because they should be on the scene right now , so I'm starting to do the delivery thing , ok , you should be there . And your initial report you're going to tell us what the hell's burning , and so boom , boom , boom . And then they start painting a picture .

You're like , oh , this is . I'm probably not going to even take command when I get there . They got a small house with a room and contents fire I need to turn it on or a car in the driveway . That's why it looks as big as it does , whatever that is . So once you get there and you think , ok , this is what we got .

So there's a lot of stuff like , before you actually show up to the scene , that you're processing is the IC , so it doesn't give you a lot of time to ring your hands and clutch your pearls and think about , oh my God , look what , look at what this horrible fire is doing to such an innocent community And you think , ok , this is .

Now I learned more about your role as an incident commander And then the other things that make you crazy is other people right ? So the ones on the incident ground , like you said , that aren't on the fire ground , that aren't doing what you expect them to do , and you don't have a lot of control over that . But you've got to be a little patient .

Maybe you've got to send a company in , or not , jim probably whatever division boss , but the third one that will make you crazy . And if you use this you know the blue card system , it's the people around you . You know where I was going . It's the people that if you don't make that command post , you're suburban or wherever . You're locked in there .

If you don't control that , that could get you wound up really fast . Somebody put in their head in the window , some other chief officer asking a silly ask question , not having the support that you need , like we had a partner That'll jack you up So you can control that .

And you really need to and say , hey , right now , no , i'm doing it And we were guilty of that too . I mean , there was times in our career we get in the back seat and the command post but I see Nick and he's like , hey , how they going ? man ? And the guy would turn around and give us a look . It's like , oh sorry .

Really at the core , though , what set for me mindfulness was competence . So if you show up and you do what's expected of you , then that is really kind of what controls your anxiety more than anything else Is . This is what I was trained to do . I showed up and I had this and I applied those skills to this and it went well .

Whether it's a task level thing or you're a strategic IC , you get assigned as a tactical level boss . It is . So again , i'm going back to the work , as we all are part of this organization because we're hired here and get paid to do this work , so that becomes the connecting force .

Well , the better you are at that work and the more you understand it and our capabilities and limitations , that kind of settles your ass down .

I mean , people in my fire department is you're going through the IC thing and they say , okay , the one thing socially that they're going to go crazy is when you change the strategy from offensive to defensive , because that's like the failure , that we couldn't put it out this way , and you know they're then gnashing of teeth and we're not worthy In actual

application . Every time I got there as the IC and changed the strategy I had eight people come up and thank me for that because they wouldn't do it themselves , because it was for whatever reason . But and so you learn very quickly oh , that's all a bunch of bullshit too that we've all believed .

So maybe if we just do the actual capabilities that we have and stick with that and be really good at it , then that becomes kind of the way forward .

And that could start eating that chill , go back to the station or whatever , But have those after action reviews , Review the incident right there And you said it on our last podcast I think , but we used to do a after action for just the command team . But , there's a good way to do that too .

Just get the company officers and the IC and say okay , guys , what can I do better ? That'll help you feel better about the next one , right ? And if somebody says hey , i didn't really like what you you kept , you didn't give us enough time , you gave us an assignment and then you started asking us how we went and got off the truck .

Yeah , so you need to do better , whatever it is .

, All right .

I'm aware my ego has something to do with this , but I still want to ask to see if there was any input slash advice that you have for me . Thanks , That is GD . This is initials .

Right , it's the hazard zone that's autocratic , but everything else I mean you have time to get input from people and to provide feedback and get people's opinions , and you don't want somebody who's government's more seniority to be a bully actually , and you shouldn't allow that . But it's nice to get input from people as a leader , right ?

So I think that probably throughout the entire fire service , there's people out there that are younger , that are supervised of people older , right ? People with more experience . That's just kind of the way the job works .

So some of the things you could do is just , first of all , if you have an ego and you can feel that ego , don't let that ego go because don't let it play out . I should say You should let it go but not let it play out , because once you throw down that on the boss card , you're screwed . Right , mike , you're smiling at that one .

Yeah , once you go there , i'm the captain . It doesn't matter how old I am , i'm the supervisor , i'm your BC . Oh my God , if you've got a state your title , wherever you are in the organization , i'm the fire chief , buddy . Yeah , i think we all know that . It says it on your shirt , asshole .

in one way or another , i've been used to having people who are older than me but you guys had probably older than you , like war veterans and people who had pretty entrenched beliefs and ways of doing business . So how did you deal with that during your career ?

It's there , in fact , you're a working boss , so you're doing that work with them . You're a member of the working crew , so in that way you kind of lead by example .

It's my experience that we have , where I was , the people that I was hanging out with had respect for those bosses That would show up and say this is what our job is , this is what we're doing , and not the ones that showed up and said , oh , no , no , no , this is our job , and I want the truck cleaned in this fashion as follows because this is the way

we do it on C group . No , the truck will be just as clean on B group and we'll clean it as we clean it . So that was first and foremost . In fact , it was to the point that if you had , like , a new officer who just wanted to be everybody's friend , we really didn't have much time or use for those people . It would act as such .

So , and the fire service at least this is the way it was with us is people would end up with who they wanted to work with Is nobody worked at stations they didn't want to be at It took a while after . Is , our assignment procedures were all based on seniority . There was nothing else .

If you had the senior letter for a spot , you got the spot , if you had all the qualifications required of that spot , so you would assemble crews that went in and some of them had worked together for 20 years I mean a very long time so you were coming into that kind of a deal .

So that could be a challenge , especially if you were going into those places . Is an act , an acting officer , so they're captains off one day and they you fill in .

There's a couple guys in a station . If I told you their names , you would know who they are . There are a couple of caustic guys and So I come in and I'm the acting captain and I were not even promoted yet And they're like , oh , gerson , all right , here we go .

There was a female there and these two caustic guys And they go okay , first thing is , is we're gonna watch these movies tonight ? Said no , we're not gonna watch those movies . No , the other , the other captain , he lets us watch these movies for these movies . Nobody was dressed in these movies . And it's like , no , we're not gonna watch those .

Say come on , gerson . And I said no , we're not gonna watch the movie , watch them next you if he comes back , next you if you guys watch them , next you . So we didn't want the movie , so I got to hurt their feelings and then We go on a call and they keep screwing with each other .

And I'm watching this like I didn't say anything , i'm just watching them . They just keep poking at each other and poking at each other . So we get a call . It was down station six . So we get a call , like got on three in the morning . It was the third call we had and on the last call the guy got up a little bit slower than the other guy .

Well , this time on his way by he punched him to wake him up . So we go on this call and I I feel the tension is like okay , what's going on there ? EMS call down there is actually worthwhile call . We go back to the station and I could feel the tension and I thought Should I do anything now ? I'm not gonna do anything .

So I go to my room and I hear And it's a fight . I mean , you know what a fight sounds like when it's in the next room and I go out and these guys are going at each other And I lost . I said neither wonders touch anybody .

And they look at me and they both stop and They they had been building up to this fist fight and I said you guys don't talk to each other the rest of shifts . Shut the hell up , don't talk to me , don't do anything .

Well , in the morning when I left , both those guys individually Came out to me and said hey , we're really sorry We put you in that position . You know we shouldn't have done , and they were both very sincerely apologetic about it and I thought , you know I should have been More consistent with . So I started off at the shift .

I was , i had , i showed maturity and said we're not gonna do this . But I really kind of got a sense something was happening . I didn't . I didn't Tell them , hey , take it easy , guys , or say anything to them . So I think you know for the maturity factor and then be consistent .

Have you read supervisors and this is one of the problems I see kind of with with younger supervisors are still trying to figure out their personality traits as a leader .

So they come in and they're almost like trying different things and a real inconsistent kind of way , and one day They're the buddies , on the next day to the boss , and then there's a buddy And you got to pick which , what you're gonna be , and you got to be consistent as a Supervisor and now you're smiling at that , but Consistency is a key right the question

is you're younger , everybody's older .

So , anyway , we promote , we're going through , and that the fire department puts you through all these like Leadership and captain's classes . This is what we expect of you . Blah , blah , blah .

And I remember we're going through the personnel piece of it and they're the assistant chief of personnel came in and said , all right , the way this fire department's organized , the way we hire people said you know , you're gonna be brand new captains .

And they say there's about a 95% chance You'll never have to write paper on anybody during your whole career because the house smooth and blue , blue , blue .

That was the biggest load of bullshit I was ever told , and in any part of my career , because we started Brovin as acting captains in the first place I went is the captain left and you would know this individual because the recruit firefighter He had was another fireman son and this recruit firemen should not have been a fireman ever .

They should not have got through the academy , not suited for this job in any way whatsoever . Well , this , the captain at that truck couldn't be put in the position where he would have to do any discipline With his buddy son . So he just takes a month off and it gives the problem . So I rove in and they're like , and he should .

That son of a bitch showed up My first shift there to tell me that guy who told you're not gonna have to write paper . No , no , no . The captain . Who would you tell me okay , i'm not gonna fire , kill good kid , you are so anyway .

So then after that happens is then we ended up at a station that had just had some Some racial personnel issues going on that were kind of the big deal at the time . Well , both of those captains got booted from the station for it and they put in two roving , the two newest . We weren't even captains yet .

They hadn't made us and I said you guys Going on , i Should have gone to law school . This is not what you said it was gonna be . So I Very quickly learned . I don't really care how old you are or what you think or what your last name is , none of that matters .

What happens is like when we get a call and we go off and we do what we're supposed to . If you'll do that , then we're great . That's all that matters right now . To me is the rest that I don't care what color you are , what kind of genitals you none of that matters . Will you just do your job , please ? Well , you'll do that , we're good .

He needs to do that in a way that , first of all , don't don't do anything where you're causing the problems , because you're being a young smartass And I don't think this person is doing that . But you got acknowledged . You're younger , but you still got to do your job right . So do it in a respectful kind of way .

Have you ever you know what it's like when somebody disrespect you ? you don't give a shit what their age is . When somebody disrespects you , you , you , it's , it's irritating . Whoa , look at that Careful there bands .

I got to the fire . I should have been the . I say I didn't take command , i didn't transfer command because the fire was out . And I tell a story all the time during these classes And it's good It's . It has to do with the work

. So this particular captain was the most senior member , maybe the most senior member of the fire department , and He wasn't dressed appropriately and we had just had a class at the CTC on that , and so I went up and asked him about that and he was very offended , like what are you talking about ?

You know , your dad said teach the crew how to do the job and stay the hell out of their way . I said , oh , that's not what he meant And that's what you want to do is that maybe you need to not get on the fire truck anymore , yeah , and just stay in the station . Would that be okay with you ? is the second paramedic on the truck ?

How about if the other guys , if the engineer figures I just don't want to do this today . So he's like , hey , man , you're being an asshole . No , no , no , no , no , no , you're that , you're the good , the son of a bitch that didn't do his job . So in the last training session we talked about this and you said this is what it looks like .

And then you show up to the scene and that ain't what you doing . I said so you just lied to all of us , right , yeah , and man , he , you call me a liar . No , i know I did . Oh , you got a . Yeah , punch me tonight , that's gonna go away , come on more on . So We kind of had a little squabble over that for a month or two .

And then it got to the point and Another fire and I pulled up and we're setting the command van up and his company gets there And he comes out and he does a twirl with all of his turnouts on and then throws me double birdies . I went over , i hugged him I said thank you , you're dressed appropriately , that's all we wanted .

And then see that the ego part is after the thing was over . I went and purchased ice cream and then took it to the station and said no , this is Yeah , if I'll come up and tell you to do your job and remind you Then later on if you actually do what I asked . That I should give some positive reinforcement that way In advance .

If I , if I were known , i would have emptied all the shit out of the back of my response vehicle and put an isolation tank in it . And we would have floated together , me and Booger Dave , and we would have come to some kind of mental Mindlock on what our role in the community was .

But if you come in and I'm the new guy and it doesn't matter at what age I am , you're gonna do what I say , which this person is not saying that , but there are people to do that . I've seen people promote to position on the guy .

Yeah , right , and that's so it's Most people will treat , or the way they treat you is a reflection on how you treat them . Right , right , it really is .

Those are the basic ethical rules that we all live by , and if you and really and we've all worked with people that didn't get that and And it seems like if you didn't get it when you were young , you just ain't getting it .

What I was thinking is that what in our organization growing up because I was , you know , like you talked about There are some war guys that I got hired in you know 77 , and there is a lot of old guys left over and most of the ones that didn't want to promote the captain the ones that wanted to Stay engineers and firefighters , and they had some age Love

being in that position and they had a . They had and they took on the responsibility Is to help the young guys do better . It was it really kind of interesting .

Like I just have Glendale , there's a guy green over there who is an engineer forever and Really brilliant guy , just never wanted to promote the captain but every captain at work for him he made that captain successful and a lot of the , a lot of the older people I guess I'd call them older people because I am one But they want to do that , they want to

help you be six . I remember , like I said , i promoted the captain with I think I had 12 or 13 years on , so that was a little bit of time and I was hired when I was 19 , but I was still kind of young , but it seemed like the people that had some age and wisdom were there to help me . Hey man , i'm gonna help you out .

I had worked with him as a firefighter , so we knew each other and it was different . So he acted a certain way when we were working together . It was more like equals .

But but then when I became the officer is he was almost would explain what he was doing on calls in a way And that you thought , you know , i never thought of that before , but that's pretty smart . And we were going to a fire and it was summertime , you know .

So it's like a hundred and five out , and that's how bitch throws on a sweatshirt And then he puts on his turnout coat . I asked him what the hell are you doing ? He says hey , man , you ever get hot ? I said yeah . All the time I've burned the shit out of my shoulders and anywhere my jack . He says put on a sweatshirt first .

He says I quit getting burned . He always wore sweatshirt and I said that's I and I now . I just wasn't efficient enough to carry out goddamn sweatshirt . I thought I'll get burned .

I guess I put in the sweatshirt on , but It just things like that , little practical things that you didn't think of and you thought she said and you're thinking Sobo came up with this . I mean , this guy had a van with every tool known to man in it and then every weapon and every round .

His old retired Moraney was a lunatic , you know , but he was a nice man , i mean , and so if you were nice to him he'd be nice to you it was just . It was perfect . I liked working with sobo and then , like you said , the crew would . They'd start a thing . Man , leave the hell alone . Who are you ? I'm so close , buddy today . Yeah , no more .

Yeah , put your stuff back in your pocket will be fine .

We'd every once , while have dinner , have a beer , and the roles completely changed Sydney , What do you think ? and but when we were on duty , he gave me all the respect and and Just it's incredible how those guys are able to do that .

And where that bridge happens , i don't know , but it happened to me in the last five , ten years Where I was always the young supervisor and then all of a sudden it's like oh wait , a minute , i am the oldest guy here now , pretty much , and Relish being the young guy .

I think of the loveboat episode where they were trying to cheat at a card game and And Gopher was on the PA saying , oh try , the club sandwich today , it's going to jack you up .

But see , computers have become so good with AI that they can beat any chess player in the world . So what happens is they have these tournaments and these people put , like these , vibrating sensors up in their rectum and I'm not bullshit , this , this happens , man . They said it's over . Grandmaster chess is done unless they do a Proctologist exam on you beforehand .

And then what they do is they communicate to them with what move to make through that device . And okay , you know the three of this and two of this means move this piece wherever , so they get that worked out . And then these , whoever it was , is just smoking them . You know one of the boom , boom , boom .

What happens when you can't get that at the scene ?

And I look up and I get my senses and I go down and I'm writing and I'm like this first I'm getting a little anxious . Getting a little anxious , i write a couple things , i'm talking on the radio . I look up again and hit , driven me to another corner .

If you can't get that spot , you're still gonna do the best you can , right ?

We pull up and it's rocking and rolling and it's cooking , just go into town And so you're like it's like marginal , it's okay , we're gonna attack , we're gonna do this , but you know , if this ain't done , in a minute and a half We got to make a change and in the middle of it a Glendale ladder truck pulls up . Well , glendale painted their apparatus yellow .

My Fit partner is Lynn and he gets out of the thing and he screams . It may have been a Don Jesse , move your school bus . And about that time all of a sudden out riggers go down this Brono . Got me it's like the buildings are like the hell with the building . Let's watch and put the Brono up again . You know it'll go up and over .

We could do 2,000 gallons a minute off the tip . So it was yeah , we left this where it was and , yeah , we ended up changing the strategy and using the brono . It worked .

Never saw the building until it .

But I guess the other thing is , if you're not it , i'm gonna say this Nick , you may disagree with me , but if you're not in a good position , i like what Nick says we're gonna drive around and pick a good spot , if you're not in a good spot and It's gonna compromise what you think you can do , move to and that move your spot .

And so he would come back and like , if it's a big apartment complex , for example , and then this happened to me and it's like I can't make sense of the building because I can't see it , it's too far away and there's too much fire and smoke . He comes back and he says , nick , look at the building to the left of you and it's laid out exactly the same .

And this is what was . So I , he could give me a reference where I could wrap my head around it . There was another time where we didn't do much in wild land here . It just didn't happen very often .

I mean , it's Phoenix , it's a desert , we don't have a lot of Oil rich growth coming out of the ground , but we had a fire way north , north of carefree highway , and they set the command vana , yeah , and there was , and they had probably about 50 or 60 acres burn .

So it was a deal and I remember was burning towards us and There was an airplane overhead from the Bureau of Land Management And they said I worry , expect turnover in the next three to five minutes , something to that effect . And I asked somebody in the like , the support officer . I said what the hell is burn over ? He says it's gonna burn over the road .

I said that we're parked on and he says yeah , so Bev drove the command van . I said just drive us , just start driving , i'll tell you when to stop . And like the put the pop out was still out , she's rock , it was over , all good . I mean we had to move the command post because otherwise we're gonna have burn over .

He would get out when we first arrived and he would take a clipboard and he would do a quick walk around , make sure he Didn't talk to anybody . Right , don't stop . This is something that he did for me because I had trouble getting a feel for the building , and he would come back . He goes this way you got , and he'd show me a , a layout of the building .

It was crude but it made sense , right ? it's like oh , okay , now I . Now I understand what we got , so that helped me .

So that was a deal and they had a radio so you could talk to them . So a lot of times we would get intel That way from and it was much better and you can make better decisions about . Okay , especially like in more complicated action-planning Scenarios where you had , like , bigger buildings that were more complex , you make better sense out what's going on .

And I think today , with drones and you see more and more fire departments , i mean , if I was doing a command post would be goddamn drone and the roof of the thing and you would use it . In fact , you could tether it almost . It doesn't have to be able to fly everywhere And you just need an aerial view of the building you're in front of .

They'll go out and put sod down and patch the hole . If we put ruts in somebody's yard , but we don't hesitate to pull a chief's vehicle off into somebody's yard So we can a be out of the way and then get a good view .

It's a lot more efficient when the IC has Visual factor feedback , because you know immediately the the status of your attack and what's going on .