AV SuperFriends: Off the Rails - I've already failed multiple times

>> Chris Dechter: This is AV super friends off the rails, an almost regularly scheduled open discussion on audio and video in higher education. We'll sound off about our most brilliant ideas, our dumbest mistakes, and everything in between. And because this conversation will almost certainly go off the rails at some point, we'll end up covering just about everything else. And now, the AV super friends for August 8, 2024, it's the best sounding

podcast in higher Ed. This is AV, super friends off the rails. What? What do Marcus signaling at me? I don't know what that means. Nine six nine. I got the date wrong. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Good. Do it again. >> Chris Dechter: Just leave us in. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not taking it. Okay. Yeah. >> Chris Dechter: For August 9, 2024, it's the best sounding podcast in higher ed. This is the AV super friends off the rails with the correct date on it. Good gravy.

All right, broadcasting live the tape from coast to coast, easternmost to westernmost, northernmost to southernmost gate post to hitching post. I'm your local host. You can boast the most milquetoast and utmost humility. I'm Chris Dechter. It's time for another Friday afternoon podcast adventure with Yav super friends. And it's a good thing that Mark alerted me that the date was wrong, because then it would have been a Thursday afternoon podcast adventure.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. >> Larry Darling: We don't need to release until next week. >> Chris Dechter: It comes out when it shows up, Larry. >> Jamie Rinehart: Cool. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter. >> Marc Cholewczynski: There's people keeping us honest out there. Just whole. It's the team intern working on this stuff. Just keep things factual. >> Chris Dechter: We'll tell the interns.

All right, so, uh, let's say. Say hello to today's panel of August AV super friends. Today, I'm m joined by a relational integration agent from Kansas City, Jamie Reinhart. >> Jamie Rinehart: I don't even know what that is. >> Chris Dechter: Or how to turn up your microphone. You sound like you're 7ft away from that thing. >> Jamie Rinehart: I am. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's the relationship.

>> Chris Dechter: Also joined by a central ideation liaison from Corvallis, Oregon, Mark Cholewczynski. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm gonna think about it. I'm gonna have a big idea. I think we all can do it. From the middle out, though, I need. It's gonna. Just. From the core. We're gonna talk about it. I have a grand idea. >> Chris Dechter: Only central ideas. I see. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Central ideas is what we're talking about here. They're gonna be big little ideas.

>> Chris Dechter: And finally, joined by a regional impact producer from Greensboro, North Carolina, Larry Darling. >> Larry Darling: I only produce impact regionally, like nothing outside of this little tiny area. >> Chris Dechter: Just small impacts globally, impact regionally. All right, well, so made it through that. We've made it through. On today's show, we're going to discuss streamlining AV systems to maybe just down to a single device, a compute or something like that.

And the technological arms race for student recruiting. But first, and you've waited all week for it. Let's do the news. Yeah, and for the news, we brought the news to you, actually. Second week in a row we've done this, believe it or not. So today's news is a little different. Well, no, it's not different. There is news and we're going to talk about news, and we're talking about news of one AV company buying

another AV company and integrating product lines and all that fun stuff. But instead of us pontificating about it, we decided we'd go right to the source and invite some friends on entire annual budget flying. We flew them in economy basic, no luggage on standby. You wait for a seat at the back. >> Robert Durbin: Um, so we're joined by $5 for the peanuts. >> Chris Dechter: Yes, you pay per peanut.

Joined by Robert Durbin and Travis Cawthorn from Kramer AV to talk about Kramer's recent acquisition of ZV and what that means for the AV over IP ecosystem. I guess I don't. Something along those lines. Uh, I'm going to just punt this one to Mark and say go. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, yes. >> Chris Dechter: Well, Mark, this is your fault that we're talking to Robert Travis, right? >> Jamie Rinehart: We didn't even know this was coming. You didn't play the news well.

>> Chris Dechter: You want me to play it again? >> Marc Cholewczynski: We hear. You didn't hear it. >> Jamie Rinehart: I didn't hear it. 7ft away. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, you're. >> Robert Durbin: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So it all, it came out, this news dropped. And I was like, this is a great opportunity to get a, um, long time listener, like friend of the show

in, Mister Robert Durbin. He's been with us here. And this is like, why not pull that, that thread and watch the whole sweater on Rebel? So I figured, let's give Robert a call and see if Kramer wants to come on and talk about it themselves. Because like I said, we could read it. But what fun is that? Let's have people who actually know from the inside and see if we can get some, some real factual information about what's going on. I think it's a great

story. I think, you know, seeing Kramer go out there, make this acquisition, um, and what it means, like, it's actually like we're seeing more development and more people taking the whole SdVoe thing and the zv part. But I want to hear from Kramer, like what, what was the position? Like where, where did we wake up and say, that's, that's what we're going to do? And this is why, like, I'm really interested in kind of hearing some inside perspective on what and how this came to

be. So Robert or Travis step up to the plate and take, uh, a swing. >> Robert Durbin: Um, well, I'm going to say that, um, zv makes great stuff. I don't know if anybody is familiar with them, but yes, they make great stuff. They're very innovative, as are we being able to combine smart people, more smart people in a room. And it's getting tougher and tougher to hire smart people at this point. Um, and bringing both the idea of that, uh, you were talking about how

enterprise, that's not for you. Well, we don't believe that, nor do they. So even their um, ab over ip management, they've got one version that's a vmware. We've got a software pant array solution which can actually do av over IP. Guess what? Yeah. On your computers. Um, yeah. So we're both very much thinking along the same lines. They're heavily invested in USB C as well, and taking that to the next level, not just displayport 1.2, but actually true extension and

uh, using it that way. So I think it's going to be a great alliance. I think that we share a lot of things in common. Um, and you know, I know a fair amount of the people that work there and they're great people. I remember them from this, from the cd days. That's how old I am. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So was it, was it a full show, like all of ZV? Like all bit of the whole, like because they had some stuff that was outside or was it just a segment of the cv?

>> Robert Durbin: Oh, no, it's all, it's all of it. >> Travis Cawthorn: It's the whole thing. >> Robert Durbin: It's a whole enchilada. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Uh, okay. Because I wasn't sure, because I know they do some rf stuff. They have a whole different animal's worth of stuff there. And like they have some broadcast pieces and like. So it was interesting to like just wholesale roll that in. I was like, that's actually a pretty sizable acquisition.

>> Robert Durbin: Oh, yes. Oh yes. And it's our second acquisition in just a few months. The other one was Austin, uh, Bentley, which makes like furniture where you can hide all the stuff inside of it. Um, and it's actually been very popular with like large enterprises because furniture budget is one

budget. The AV is a different budget, but all of a sudden, when you combine them, it's under budget, and they can install them, usually in half a day, which kind of blows people away if they're trying. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is this an elaborate play to, like, have smart couches and furniture? Like, are we going to see the first Av over IP issued, like, couch? Is that what's happening right now? >> Robert Durbin: No, no. It would be more like the tables with the

legs holding all the goodies and things. Or, you know, but if it's a. >> Travis Cawthorn: Couch, I want one. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But, I mean, if it's on the right budget, I mean, that is strategic as hell because I could move that, and it's the furniture budget now, and I can get all that tech over on the furniture. Like, that is, like, shrewd. >> Robert Durbin: Thank you. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, thank you.

>> Robert Durbin: I thought so. I was super excited about it. Um, at first I wasn't, but then the more I learned about it, I'm like, oh, you're doing the right things, and that's what people want. Yes. Very, very good. Um, ZV is also really fond of doing evaluation kits. So they have big rolling carts and even ones that

dealers can buy. And I've been a fan of that for years. I mean, you know me, I love to drag around a case, and I, like, I'll pack less clothing and less anything so I can bring more gear with me. >> Marc Cholewczynski: All the demo kits with Robert's underwear. And I was like, oh, oh, sorry, that's the wrong one. >> Robert Durbin: That's my shirt for tomorrow. My bad. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So do you think that this acquisition changes kind of the roadmapping that we saw for

Kramer moving forward? Or is it like, is it, are you just kind of rolling in? Are you going to kind of have all these lines, or you think this is going to add an edge to a specific line or anything? Because I'm kind of curious, like, how this meets up and squares up with, like, kds and, and, like, what's going on there? >> Robert Durbin: Um, I think it's going to give us both separation,

and, um, we're going to start integrating them. But I'll let Travis speak to this, too, because he's been involved in some more conversations as well. >> Chris Dechter: Travis? >> Travis Cawthorn: Yeah, no, for sure. And, uh, thanks for having us on here today. I think in general, there's products that they have, um, that we

don't have. There's products we have that they have. And so those products that we kind of both have together, we're going to help kind of refine each other, you know, come out with, uh, the best version of those, and then in addition, add in some of those other products like, you know,

the SdVoe, uh, with. Especially with them kind of being, you know, really, really early in the forefront of SdVoe, I think there's a lot that, um, you know, we can learn from them on that and, um, you know, definitely kind of grow together and help strengthen our, you know, Aviv Ip offering. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Gotcha. Um, so was there a lot of interest in, specifically in that SdVoe

alliance? That was kind of my curiosity when I saw was this a. To really get that and bolster and have that pillar kind of be a part of the Kramer piece of it? >> Travis Cawthorn: You know, I think that's one aspect. Yeah, not all of it. I mean, you know, they even have, you know, some medical, you know, hospital certified products

that I think is really interesting. Um, and then I think when you, you take the, you know, aviv one piece of it, and then you start integrating the rest of the, you know, product categories that Kramer brings to the table from, you know, control connectivity with cabling, um, you know, software management, uh, you know, Robert was talking about with pan array, I, um, think it's going to be, you know, a, you know, a fuller suite of solution that, uh, we can kind of come to the market with.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Cool. Chris, I know you mentioned it prior. We didn't get on this piece, but I think you had some numbers you had in mind, um, that we've heard in the SdVoe concept, and I think that's the 21 ten thing, right? Ah. Is there any crystal ball on the 21 ten piece of this that you'd see coming in? If you don't know the answer, I might get it, but I think we're all very curious.

>> Chris Dechter: Well, I get an answer. I mean, I think it'd be great to see that everywhere. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But, I mean, yeah, I think we were hungry for it. I didn't know if this was in alignment with any of that kind of decision making process. >> Robert Durbin: We have not heard yet, but I am a huge fan as well, which, you know, and, uh, yeah. Um, so from, you know, from the back of the room, I'll be the one who keeps raising my digital hand or physical hand

when we get together in person. And I'm also very excited about having more esports offering because I watch the kids playing those games, and they're learning real world skills. How do we best utilize the team? Okay. Somebody has to get in the sacrifice role so we can get, you know, I mean, it's. They're really learning actual real world skills. Perhaps more than they are in many of their other classes.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Just the backend engineering for those events and the capability that exists for that is some of the most complex, uh, engineering. You're going to see multiple shows where time is, like, extremely important. The network is extremely important. Like, every aspect of that is so intentionally rolled out. Um, it's as complex as you possibly can be and very specific in its delivery to look at that as kind of the edge of where things are moving. I think it's a smart

move. Um, when I look at ZV site, I see some stuff that looks very broadcast, and that's where I start thinking, 21 ten. >> Robert Durbin: Yeah. And you hit the nail on the head. You know how me, I never shy away from the heart of the problem. The more interested I am, I'm like, how much more time can I throw at this? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, I think it's awesome to

kind of see that you guys are growing and moving forward. I think there's tons of opportunity and keep buying them up and moving forward and refining and bringing quality product. I think that's the name of the game for everybody. So there's more options on the table for everybody. >> Robert Durbin: Yes, and I think we're going to get some great talent out of this, too, and I'm very excited about that as well.

You know, I've known many of these people for years, and it'll be exciting to work with them. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Awesome. >> Robert Durbin: And when we get toys, guess who's going to be bringing them to show them to you? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Uh, well, that's what I was going to say. If people wanted to get ahold of you and say they're really interested in this and, you know, they want to try out some of this, is

there? What's the path? How people are listening and they want to get their hands on this. What is the way that people can get a hold of you and or somebody that can show up with a box full underwear and product? >> Robert Durbin: Um, they can just email me and I'll make sure to correct them, connect them to the right person in the right region. As you know, as Larry was saying, think globally, act regionally. Uh, it's just first initial r, last name Durbin. Durbin.

Dashav.com. now, we also have something coming up, a k wave tour that we're going to do in October 24 at the Tulalip casino. Because believe it or not, that casino is Kramer, like, pretty much end to end, and they keep adding more and more of it. Uh, Tulalip is a bit of a drive, I know, but if anybody wants to attend that, please reach out to me. Um, I

would love to have you. It's going to be a nice event. We're also going to have a little training there as well, but we're going to do more of these. And Kramer has invested more in the west now than they have probably in the prior decade. And I hear all the time from my vp and from my exec staff, they're like, nope, we're doubling down on the west. We've never really supported the west. We've never been there in a strong presence. We're here to do that now. And they know me.

I'm pretty much not going to stop until everybody says yes or no or go away. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Like that damn Robert guy is here. >> Robert Durbin: Again, playing with his stupid kaloc cable, swimming, swinging his villas around like a helicopter because they don't fall off. >> Travis Cawthorn: It's an eye catcher. >> Robert Durbin: It works. It does, yeah. I mean, we were able to catch. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You right in the eye, you know?

>> Robert Durbin: Yeah, exactly. I had a bunch of people just stop like, you know, mouths gaped open going, is that, is there a trick or like a secret handshake? Or I'm like, nope. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, well, I think to see growing that ecosystem where you guys are, um, there's been a lot of players that are kind of doing it and dabbling in it. And I think it's smart you guys have a good ecosystem there to kind of fill that out and kind

of think larger. And, you know, there's a way to kind of keep growing and move to be another player in this that seems to be oversaturated with trons and sis of the world. It's good to see another large, you know, quality company step up and kind of have some alternate options. So thank you so much. >> Robert Durbin: And, um, we do see where you are seeing the idea of a PC being the solution. So, you know, that's kind of where we're going with the whole panda ray thing, is it's possible.

I mean, it was something talked about 25 years ago wasn't possible. I can't tell you how many times I was on Microsoft councils because I live up here and knew people, they'd call me in and I'm like, nope, not going to work. Wouldn't be prudent, not at this juncture. Thousand lights of light, I would take my fee and the free pass to the Microsoft store and leave. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep. Well, brave new world, so.

>> Robert Durbin: Exactly. Thank you so much for having us. Always a pleasure and we look forward to seeing you in the real world and not pushing the Chrysler, not pushing the Chrysler. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Anyway, Travis, uh, maybe get ahold of you guys, Travis or Robert, you guys socials or anything like that? You want to keep it all through Kramer? Any last little call outs? >> Robert Durbin: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

>> Travis Cawthorn: You can find me on LinkedIn, of course, email as well, which is going to be t. Cawthorn at Gmail or, I'm sorry, tcawthorn at kramer av.com. um, also can find me on LinkedIn. Like I said, uh, Instagram all the socials. But, you know, we appreciate you guys having us on and happy, uh, to be a part of it. >> Robert Durbin: Yeah. And if anybody just wants to call me and chat, I'm putting my number in there. Uh, 206-867-2145 just call me.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You are a brave, brave man. >> Robert Durbin: Yeah, I know. I am not afraid. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's Robert. He's like that awesome way. Thank you guys for coming on and, uh, you know, talking about the news with us, and we always love having you on. Robert, you've been here now, Travis, you've been on the show. So, um, maybe you'll get down as many times as Robert has. So appreciate you guys coming along.

>> Travis Cawthorn: Maybe it might take a while. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Robert Durbin: Chris, it's a pleasure. Larry. Have fun. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Cool. Thanks, guys. >> Travis Cawthorn: Thank you all. >> Jamie Rinehart: See you guys. Thanks. >> Chris Dechter: Hey, you. You look like you're pretty good at hanging projector

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throw or ultra short throw projector. Independent amalgamated frustration mounts are a perfect solution and will ensure your labor charges really, really add up for your, ah, next project, try independent amalgamated frustration mounts. You'll hate em. And coming soon, frustration mounts for lcd monitors and tvs. So for our, uh, first segment today, wanted to talk about this concept. Well, Mark, you and I worked on this in like, 2016. We tried this. We tried to build it. We tried to

actually make this happen. The concept of just holistically taking a step back, looking at a classroom standard, normal, everyday classroom, conference room, whatever you call it. But classroom space is where we started. And saying, what are people doing in these rooms? What stuff are they using? And can we get rid of everything else? And basically circling around the concept that the only thing they really need is a computer.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: And people were probably ripping their hair out right now. But no, I got, I gotta support the BYOd. >> Chris Dechter: I need a blue gets a blu ray player. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And I. I want to kind of first say, okay, and I'm, um, I'm using air quotes for those that can hear them. >> Chris Dechter: And you have to make the air quote noise. Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: What does that sound like?

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah. >> Chris Dechter: Um, let me see if I can find it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Teaching and learning environment. Teaching and learning. I want to kind of just curb that right there. Teaching and learning room. Some may call it a classroom. Whatever it may be, closed it. So what are the services you need to provide in said space? What is it

you're trying to do here? Um, and I think moving into wherever we are now, I want to believe that a lot of the classes we have can and should be being delivered from your lms, your content, all your stuff in a well thought out, well delivered, curated curriculum. We're into this digital world. Um, and I think that's where I start

to think about this. If all of your content or anything is well curated in that spot and you have a good handle on your class and how it is, and now I know, Larry, you're saying maybe that's not the reality. >> Larry Darling: No, I'm just saying that that's a very one directional way of looking at the learning experience. >> Chris Dechter: Maybe.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: But the technology piece, specifically the need for technology in there, if that is the case, and most things can kind of be distilled down to this computer, is delivering the bulk of my digital content in that teaching and learning space, what other additional things do you really need to be putting in there? I think that's where I start.

I am the one who's fumbling through, like, trying to make teams rooms and all that other stuff work as well, like, in the teaching learning environment, because I believe that maybe we don't need to be in a world where we have all these switching devices and inputs and all this other stuff, just in case somebody walks in with their thing and they need to plug it in and yada, yada, yada, do we need to actually be

doing that anymore? I think that's how we come back to this conversation often, that maybe we could get by with just one source in that space being the compute, as Chris had mentioned. I'll stop and you guys can tell me how much of a fool I may be. >> Chris Dechter: If not, we all agree. All right, well, thanks, everybody. We'll just roll. >> Larry Darling: I don't really disagree with that. I mean, I, I've

been trying to scale it down. I'm down to three. And I think in the next version I will be down to, you can bring your laptop, you can bring your computer, or the computer that's already in the room. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Bring my own desk. >> Larry Darling: It would bring mine. >> Chris Dechter: It would be 24 inch monitor. >> Larry Darling: It would not be a huge, huge stretch to just say if you want to show your laptop, open up teams.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Right. The best BYOD connection I have is share zoom, the cloud. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. >> Larry Darling: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It is not a cable. Well, and going into some converter. >> Chris Dechter: So there may be people listening, struggling with this concept of like, the only thing you really need in the room is the computer.

Um, but if you take again, you have to step back from what you're trying to, from the types of content and go, what are they showing? Okay, they're showing, if it's an lms, that means it's a browser. It's a freaking browser. If they're doing web conferencing, zoom teams, Google, webex, whatever. Again, it's through a browser or an application, that's it on the compute. Again, if they're showing, uh, even a blu ray or dvd, please stop doing that.

But if you are, most likely you have the capability to do that through an optical drive on the compute or stop doing that. Larry shakes and said, no, I agree. I don't put it. Or yes, just don't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just get a player. Yeah, get a player. Here's a USB connection. Go. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, give them a, given the actual drive. Yes. USB device, um, doc cam, USB, um, capturing PTZ cameras around the room or, uh, you know, webcams or whatever, microphones,

USB to the compute. And again, you could even expand this to say, well, I'm going to provide BYOd, I'm sorry, Byodden, Byoc, whatever stuff. I'm gonna probably the capability for you to drive that stuff from your own compute. But again, you're still talking about a, uh, compute at that point to Larry's point, why not just have them join the same exact session the other one's already running?

Because that simplifies everything. But you're basically, if you see on this, you're basically only a device or adapter away from almost everything ending up there anyway and all the sources starting there. So while this may not be a panacea for everybody, this is, I think, in my opinion, way, this is clearly the way things are heading. Because just like Larry, I just was working on this morning, commissioning 25 brand new spaces in a building. There are three sources

running in this, in this system, one of which. So the, you know, install computer laptop and then the document camera. And the document camera already has a USB connection to the computer, so why not just get rid of that one? And now I'm down to two, and the other one's just a. A laptop. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Ah.

>> Chris Dechter: So I can get rid of that when I go to the content sharing. So. >> Larry Darling: But why, uh, like, there are so many transmitters right now that have the two inputs. Like, why not just leave the flexibility of that HDMI connection that auto switches when somebody plugs it in and keeps the room simple, but remains flexible enough that if an outside entity comes in, they can easily connect.

>> Chris Dechter: But Larry, you're saying that the flexibility to use their own compute to do. >> Larry Darling: All the same compute. >> Chris Dechter: Exactly. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Swinging my whole infrastructure to enable somebody else's computer. Like, why move the whole infrastructure of cameras and mics and all that stuff? >> Larry Darling: Oh, I wouldn't do it just so. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Somebody can use BYOD. Like, that's. No, don't do that.

>> Larry Darling: If they're bringing in a guest lecturer and he doesn't have login credentials to get there and you don't want to set everything up, he can plug in his laptop and present. >> Marc Cholewczynski: They should have a sponsored account. >> Jamie Rinehart: That's a different group. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm giving you the whole, like, central.

>> Chris Dechter: That's a scheduling thing. The security team will be like, no, no, they should. You should know who that is. >> Larry Darling: I'm just saying, for no more expense than it is. Is it worth the limit? >> Marc Cholewczynski: You're bumping up against event space here, and I'm not. This is not our classrooms events. That's not the best one talking. I'm not talking about that to me. But the argument you just made is the thing that everybody who runs event spaces

always say, well, what about the guy who comes in with their MacBook? They need to plug it in. >> Larry Darling: I've seen that in art classes. I've seen that in science classes. It happens. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, we have tons of. Okay, that I don't disagree that this is maybe the way we're headed, that it could simplify everything. Except that you are putting a lot of faith into operating system and software system programmers to actually allow you to do the things that we

need to do. To Chris's point. Well, you got to bring in USB and then you have the USB and you have another USB and you have another USB. As long as the USB bus can handle. >> Chris Dechter: It's USB all the way down, Jamie, and, and. >> Jamie Rinehart: Oh, well, okay, fine, well then we'll use network. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Sure. >> Jamie Rinehart: We avoid IP, so we'll just put the magic network. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Ah.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Um, codec in there. Pick your version and your poison. Oh, wait, I'm, um. That runs at the administrative level and you're not allowed to do that. Or that runs on the back end side. And that was, oh, wait, you know, I'm just like, oh, I love all. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The argument because I agree with you 100%. I agree. All the awareness, all the awareness is fair because you have to be able to answer for all of these things. And I think that's the exercise.

Right? And going through just jamming teams room into a classroom environment, all the administrative stuff we have to deal with, and that arguably is just one computer. There it is. That's all it's doing. It's managing all the other pieces. I've gone as far as, like, you're not going to get a usb ingestion at all. If you want to join, you're going to go and join from the application as last minutes as that may be. But guess what? It actually, you can get a glimpse of what this may

be like. I'm not saying teams rooms are going to proliferate all of your campus in your classrooms, but the single device, single connection to your display environment, there is a lot of elegance in that type of approach because you're not having to do all this unique boutique switching and all that stuff. If arguably your 90% is just happening from the single source, and I do. >> Jamie Rinehart: Think that that is happening, even if it's, um, the virtual

all in, you're basically all, we always bitch and moan. The all in wonders are stupid. Well, now we're making a different all in wonder. It's like a few years ago. Well, teams rooms and zoom rooms, it's a codec. It's a modern codec. How stupid is this? We just got rid of all of our codecs and now we're buying new codecs. And now we're in. This argument today of what you've just proposed is the all in wonder.

It does all of your audio, all of your video, all of your inputs and outputs, all of your connections to the Internet and all of these and all of, oh, and you just need a single sign on. But wall and wonder suck. We need to get rid of those. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, I get it. So, um, I really. >> Jamie Rinehart: I'm mixed because I've tried the same thing. So I tried to use NDI tools to get camera.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: That's. That's. I want to talk about the first time you experience NDI desktop, the. Or the first, like, common person, you. >> Chris Dechter: Dante domain manager or something. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Tell me that. You're like, holy shit. Did it not challenge your belief of what is possible in a modern av environment? Well, you all did it.

You're like, holy shit, I don't need any of this. I could just originate right from this PC and get my content to that display. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yes, and that's one of the things I really liked about it. And then you started running into all of these other administrative overheads, and I wonder if in our siloed world of it, um, because we all are it, except we're all siloed. Um, are we ever going to be able to make this come together?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I think we will. I think we will see the collapsing of these Vlans, the computer people versus the AV people. It's not real. That's not a thing. If you're staying, like, that's gonna go away. >> Jamie Rinehart: No, I think you're on the right side of that argument. Uh, unfortunately, I think the other side of that argument is everybody else involved. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Sure, but those are opportunities. It's the only way you can see

it. Like, there's no reason to say we're gonna go retreat back to, like, spigots and tube technology because we don't want to move forward. Like, we can't look at it that way. >> Jamie Rinehart: I started looking at one of the reasons that I started pulling back a little bit on some of the direct to computer NDI feeds, and some of that was that at some point, it was extremely difficult to narrow down who could access that.

>> Chris Dechter: Mhm. >> Jamie Rinehart: If that software is deployed everywhere. Um, you know, I. Yes, there are tools, everybody. I get it, but they're not elegant, they're not simple, and they're not enterprise. >> Chris Dechter: Just plug in another nick. Jamie, it's fine. >> Jamie Rinehart: My wing and I can do it within my own little infrastructure, my island network. But when you go enterprise, it goes. It goes batshit crazy.

And I started like, wait a minute, you can get this camera feed out of the chancellor's conference room. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mm hmm. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, anywhere, right. So there's just all these other hurdles that I don't see. The people who own the hurdle it is now. We get into the job security thing. I am with you. It is all fake. It is all artificial barriers that we can all get through, yet nobody wants.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: To because it's occupational identity. I get it. The, but the part that fascinates me is that doing, like, the NDI na, that's a whole nother step. Like that is like, let's collapse even some more transport out of this and just put it all on there. And I

think that is a brave new world. I don't think we're there yet, but I think going back to, like, the original concept of everything around this one lone wolf PC in the room, like that starts to make sense when you start having your leadership start talking about, oh, we're gonna make sure that every class we have is offered for remote delivery. I'm not saying recording or just generic zoom, but more along the lines of traditional distance education we're going to have.

>> Chris Dechter: Is there a functional difference? I mean, I have to ask that question. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, one is surveillance, one is interactive, and I would understand that there's. If you design well and you have a space that's going to deliver the true distance education model, you're going to really value all that experience. You're not just slapping a camera and an overhead microphone room walking away. That's not what I'm talking about.

But now you're saying, okay, well, how are we managing all of that? How are you managing your curriculum, your students in your curriculum? We start looking at offerings like class I share with you guys, like that part being rolled and sitting really nice in your lms and giving you all that collaboration tool. Yes, you can run teams, you can run

zoom, do all this stuff too. But, uh, these products that are really aligned for teaching and learning at the LMS level that are interoperating with our analog environments, all in that PC, you can start to see where it starts to align and make a lot of sense where you're not having all this external switching infrastructure to then feed into the cheapest USB adapter you have. Everything sits really clean

and native in that ecosystem. I think that's where I start to get really curious, like, could we pull this off one PC, one input, one output, or a couple displays? No, it is. I mean, if it's via AV over IP and we're going to go to two outputs to different things, however you want to do it. Yeah, but I think you can get there. You can do camera. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, I do too. I think you can. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think you can. >> Jamie Rinehart: But I just.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm cautiously optimistic. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, we're five years from some of this, I mean. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Think so. >> Jamie Rinehart: Okay, so let's talk about all these people with their teams rooms and when we make fun of all the comments we see online and these message boards and stuff says, well, I've got my polycam and it's across the room. I need a USB center extender that'll get me 700ft.

>> Chris Dechter: Well, they started in the wrong place. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, uh, don't we all? >> Jamie Rinehart: Okay, but when we start saying we're going to collapse this down to a single PC, you have two options, network or USB. Right? Well, we've already established that. Oh, is there more? You can enlighten me in a minute. Just, um. But we've already established that USB has its own issues.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not extending USB, I'll tell you that. I'm not gonna do that. >> Chris Dechter: Stop doing that. >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, even if you go baseband into something, we're now back to Tchotchke town, which is what we're trying to avoid. >> Chris Dechter: Well, what's wrong with tchotchke town? In the sense where if you have the, if you have the right chotch key that converts all that shit at the last six widgets here, I'm not.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm out of chotchky. >> Chris Dechter: So I want let's go to gadgets then. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, having a one box to kick. If you gotta have all these damned. >> Larry Darling: Widgets you have, I don't think we can do the one box beyond presentation. Like what Jamie did as a science expert experiment was cool, but supporting everybody. >> Jamie Rinehart: Mark that down.

>> Larry Darling: I'm just saying like, that I would not want every room on my campus just NDI from the cameras to like Dante going straight to the computer. Like, I like those boxes. I can manage in support a little bit easier. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So if, let's, let's engineer this thing for a second. So let's say we have the computer. We're gonna, we're gonna agree that there's gonna be a computer. >> Chris Dechter: Well, and also I do want to.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Bring up an exercise was that was the only thing was maybe we haven't. >> Chris Dechter: Gotten there yet, but even if we have, I think when we say we're talking about a single device, it's not to say that it's the only thing in there, but it's the single thing with, with which people are interacting and it may still require some other, you know, you may need an audio processor of some sort and you still need a projector and that way and all.

>> Larry Darling: That, that's where we started. But Mark is slowly trying to get us all into it. Is the only thing in the room. >> Chris Dechter: Well, literally, it's a giant laptop that they open the screen and hold it up for everyone to look at. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's just your phone. We're just calling each other. We're done. We're not even doing your phone in. >> Chris Dechter: An old school, like, 1960 style opaque projector. You put it under there

and it just blows it up on the screen. Uh. Oh, man, this is awesome. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Lovely. >> Larry Darling: I like it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So to me. Okay. Why. I'll curb it here. A little more for you. >> Chris Dechter: Put some rails around the room. >> Marc Cholewczynski: M. No, no, the only source. Okay. The old. Do we need to be switching and accommodating all these multiple sources in a. I don't think you do.

>> Jamie Rinehart: I think, yeah, I think we're already. >> Chris Dechter: Well, yeah, and I'm going to, I'm going to. >> Jamie Rinehart: All of us are already bearing that. >> Chris Dechter: And I'm going to backpedal slightly to agree more with Larry that I will allow two sources if both of them are computers. >> Robert Durbin: Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And. Ah, uh, but that's really to accommodate the what if and maybe we're being nice. I don't.

I would challenge that. You need to offer that as part of your core delivery. >> Chris Dechter: What if I offer that by, by invite, uh, allowing them to bring in whatever the hell they want, but they're joining the same network based session that the other already running. >> Jamie Rinehart: And that's, that's where I stand because I hate using our internal machines. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So that's fine. >> Jamie Rinehart: I will always bring my own.

>> Chris Dechter: Yeah. Mister dual boot Mac running weird shit on his computer. >> Jamie Rinehart: Everybody agrees every single time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm the one actively getting rid of HDMI cable. So I will take the single handedly, like, no, with some. We're not going to have some nippers, just auxiliary. >> Chris Dechter: Coming off the boat. >> Marc Cholewczynski: In this version of this reality. I'm going to say that, no, we're not going to have a wire

connection. I'm going to say, nope, we're not going to do it. >> Chris Dechter: It's a bold strategy, cotton. Let's see if it pays off. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It is, it is. And I know people will. Oh, my God. But if your stance is you're teaching from the LMS and you're delivering it this way, there is a pathway for you to join that session and share your content. That is, that is going to be the directive. I'm taking that stance at leadership said, you're

chopping it down. Single source. Here we go. Cost effective. >> Chris Dechter: And Mark, of course, when you are joining that session wirelessly, you're joining that through a proprietary appliance which also costs more than the compute that's sitting right next to it. Right. No. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No way am I going to put some wireless bridge mechanism in there and it's doing bridge in my widget. I told you the connector is the web page when you go to the website and hit share.

>> Chris Dechter: $2200 and then $3,000 a year. Jamie, come on, pay for that. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think we stumble in this conversation often, Chris. I think you and I back channel communicate around like, you know, you could just do it with just this one thing. And this is kind of where I've even come. Like where are the commercial hubs that are kind of giving us this interfacing we do? Because I think that's where we're up.

>> Chris Dechter: Are you going to announce something right now? >> Marc Cholewczynski: The whole point that, you know, having to have tchotchke town and widget fest all going on at the same time is a recipe for disaster, right? Potentially, but that's what we're all potentially, but we're doing it anyway. >> Chris Dechter: But is it a necessary evil right now? >> Larry Darling: Yes. >> Jamie Rinehart: One. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is it?

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, you're doing it wrong. >> Chris Dechter: I have two. >> Larry Darling: I got two. >> Marc Cholewczynski: What are your two? >> Chris Dechter: One uh, for audio and cameras and we're no one for audio, one for cameras. So same. And depending on the room I can smash that down to just one. But then I have document coming in so that is too. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So you're not coming off DSP native into something?

>> Chris Dechter: No, if I audio only then you get your audio connection through USB. That's one can call that a widget USB. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's not a USB adapter. >> Chris Dechter: Correct. >> Marc Cholewczynski: USB as the native thing. >> Jamie Rinehart: I wasn't calling a DSP a tchotchke. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, to me, yeah, a tchotchke is. >> Chris Dechter: Oh you can just want the adapters. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, the Magwell.

>> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Jamie Rinehart: Then I would say the fan captured. >> Chris Dechter: One if there's, if I'm using baseband cameras, then one if I'm using network cameras, then zero. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. Yeah. So to me I'm doing the SDI conversion off the cameras and then that goes in. Pick your, pick your flavor. >> Jamie Rinehart: What are you doing? >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's it. My infrastructure is aligned. For me to do that when

I'm crazy enough to do that, I mean I'm um. Crazy. >> Jamie Rinehart: Come on, you're going all, you're going neck deep into. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, we're gonna be there. >> Jamie Rinehart: But you won't, you won't, you know, get into up to your. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not saying we won't, it's just that the investment we made so far was around currently built around the STI and a network path and that's my.

>> Chris Dechter: Well and Jamie, to your pointed m. >> Jamie Rinehart: One cable, every camera Jamie. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah and Jamie to your point. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Let's go. >> Chris Dechter: You're not wrong. There's better ways to handle those cameras in a, in a teams environment. But all of correct. But all of the teams zoom whatever room systems all think that USB is the end all be all because it people, PC people

understand USB. The minute they see a different connector. >> Jamie Rinehart: They'Re like, this is where my widgets come in. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Right. >> Jamie Rinehart: Because I have to have a decoder. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You got to get it back off that network. Right. >> Jamie Rinehart: But it's prepared m what about a second nick? >> Chris Dechter: Would that count as an adult?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: There's somebody out there screaming right now. Oh, the nick thing. Just like you said, chris, I have three Nick, you had an NDI is on the same VLAn as your computer. That sounds blasphemous. It's got. It's going to interfere with your control system. >> Jamie Rinehart: Oh, no, it doesn't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, it's fucking not. Yes. >> Jamie Rinehart: It doesn't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Trust me, like, but we have to have it.

>> Chris Dechter: Well, here's the irony. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The manufacturer told us this 24 years ago that we had to segregate our control systems and our PCs. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah. Let me tell you, it doesn't, uh, it doesn't.

>> Chris Dechter: So I guess question, maybe a question for the panel. Who does put their, their PCs, their computers, their instructor computers, their installed computers like God intended, on a different Vlan than the rest of their stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I would imagine 90% everybody listening to. >> Chris Dechter: This is probably, now the question is, is that for. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I don't want it. Is that I want to get away from.

>> Chris Dechter: Is that for security? Is it for management? Is it for access control? >> Marc Cholewczynski: They're going to say security. >> Jamie Rinehart: All of those. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, because it is not. It's not to keep that stuff from getting into our stuff. It's to keep our shit from getting into theirs. Yeah, that's, it's to keep us.

>> Chris Dechter: You got your peanut butter into my chocolate and you got your chocolate. My peanut butter scenario. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, absolutely. >> Jamie Rinehart: You know, and again, in my case, it's all on the same switch. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mm hmm. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's v. It's Vlan partitioned out. It's more to make because our, our desktop people take care of all of that for me, so it makes it easy for them.

They just hit the thing and go, it's just done. I don't have to worry about it. >> Chris Dechter: Well, I've even gone once a farther than that, Jamie, uh, because I did the same thing. They are, uh, on that port that ports on a different Vlan, etc. Whatever. Now I'm even going to like. No, I'm. I'm activating a separate port on the wall and plugging the computer into the wall. Because then it doesn't even touch my stuff. Yes, because too many times I've had.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: The two ports, PC, Vlan, control. Vlan. Well, that's what pipes in. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. In my case, it's PC, PC, Vlan. And then my network switch with all the rest of my nonsense. Yes. >> Robert Durbin: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not gonna. I'm not, I'm not. Haven't gone down the road. Larry's gone and had to pay. >> Chris Dechter: Larry has 1700 ports in every room.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Chris Dechter: And they're all. >> Larry Darling: No, I don't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Oh, it's right. Your island world now. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, I can't. I would like to do that, but that would be exciting. >> Chris Dechter: There is living the island life, man. Kill me for that. >> Larry Darling: PCV land, Lyle. When you drop land, that can connect to one device.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, so if you're working to do this, what would it look like? >> Chris Dechter: Already done. >> Marc Cholewczynski: If you're guilty enough, done. Say we're gonna computer, DSP, one encoder, a decoder, one button panel, turning things on and off, light, volume control, and whatever sync and speakers you want. >> Jamie Rinehart: If we're doing it this, I don't even want a button panel.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm kind of there, too. I'm kind of saying, could you land your controls on your desktop? And people are gonna scream, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> Chris Dechter: What controls? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Go ahead. What? >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: What are you doing? Turning control, volume control, and that's on the computer display. >> Jamie Rinehart: Wakes up when you wake the computer.

>> Chris Dechter: See, the magic of CEC, it works almost all the time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But this, uh. But in the world where we're Ada saying we have to have distributed audio and all that stuff, and yada, yada, yada, and I argue you have audio that's going into your capture, right. If you're gonna be doing that, are you doing any other control of that stuff? >> Larry Darling: Do you really want the p. The screen, the big projector screen to wake up as

soon as the instructor logs in? You don't want the instructor to be able to control that so they can answer their email or do anything else? >> Jamie Rinehart: Dumb world. Yes. No, it just happens. No friction. >> Marc Cholewczynski: They wake it up. >> Jamie Rinehart: It'll happen, you know. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Let's go. Yeah, I'm automated. You're gonna walk into the room. It's gonna come down.

>> Chris Dechter: Larry, Larry, let me ask this. Why are we turning that display off, just leave it on 24/7 it's easier that way. >> Larry Darling: That's not a good question. >> Chris Dechter: You're telling me you don't have those rooms right now where you're pretty sure in the middle of the night you're like, I'm pretty sure that projector is probably still on. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So I was dumb enough to ask the question from one of the

is of the world. I said hey, do you have any plans on being able to the Tron assist of the world? It said do you have any plans to maybe break open or get access to like teams room zoom type stuff in your system? And they said oh no no no no. We Microsoft will not give us access to that at all. Because I wanted to explore some of you all remember the old Cisco codec module that had all the feedbacks and you guys take that call, turn things on like

it was awesome. It was awesome, right? And like so I know, hell no, Microsoft's never gonna ever let us do that. And they will. >> Larry Darling: You'd be wrong. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, there it is again. The uh, the ability to do that and make and drive logic through automation from like a call control and things like that. And they're like no, that Microsoft is the castle and we are just also.

>> Chris Dechter: And that's an interesting take from them because logically they would want to do that for that exact same automation that they want to provide. So the question is, is a Microsoft and other similar providers, zoom teams or zoom teams, zooms, Google, Webex, whatever else out there, are they going to start providing that? Is someone else going to start

providing that? And that will lead them to or allow, allow them to start to usurp a lot of what teams and Zoom and others are doing or are uh. We going to see some other player come in and completely upend it? Because they do allow that level of access. Maybe because I don't disagree. You're right. They almost need to have some sort of network uh based API for general basic

automation. So you can hey on whatever flag it's throwing, whatever variable um, it's landing in that table, that system on or call start or call mute or whatever because there's already capability for that with UVC USB controls. So why not extend that out to the next thing or now as I think about I'm just speaking out loud and interesting to see the company makes this where's the UVC to everything adapterino box that. That is basically they can read uv super status.

Yes. And on the backside is a super widget like those awesome ones from, like, global cash that, like the GC six. And by the way, if you guys haven't looked at these super freaking cool global cache that makes these little, um, uh, it's like a modular frame with these things that are, um, relay and serial and contact closure and all this stuff in one GPIO, all this nonsense. For those, like, how do I bridge the digital analog world through this

thing, most of which are Poe powered and all the rest? But where's going to be that thing that talks to team status and allows you to do all sorts of crazy nonsense? >> Larry Darling: That's an awesome idea, but only if it comes with an rs 232 connector on it. Some of them, then it was. >> Chris Dechter: So. But, Larry, to. What you're saying, though, is you still have a bunch of, what

are we doing? You still have a bunch of environmental ish stuff that needs that level of communication. >> Larry Darling: We do, and that's part of the learning environment. And we can simplify the tech side so much, but there's still the environmental side. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But the thing that always catches people. Maybe it's like the thing, but one of the things that always seems to trip people up is that very crap coming in and having

to, what do I press to do this? And what do I press to do that? If arguably, we know they're coming in and they need to use the stuff, can we not just automate against that? I know we're getting away from the original. >> Larry Darling: We use Jamie's little show me button, arcade buttons. Like, as long as we empower the instructor to have control over what's on that screen, I'm fine with it.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: That convinces the Tron assistance of the world to take teams room and put it in another flipped fucking page and force people to go back and forth like. That is a terrible idea. >> Larry Darling: No, it can be whack a mole. It can be one button that's changed, that makes it work, but they have. >> Jamie Rinehart: To be able to turn it on. Nesting of nesting that is coming up in these rooms.

This is one of the reasons that it's driving. One, drives me to avoid them, and two really makes me struggle with the using them as the one box solution, because if you want to have any kind of extra control, it's nested up in nested. And most of these. Most folks now get confused with a typical touch panel. That's why we're all going back to buttons.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So. >> Jamie Rinehart: Which is weird, because they can operate their damn cell phone, but we can't get them to. >> Chris Dechter: Can they, though? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. Can they? I don't. I, um. I'm all in. I'm getting rid of everything. Just computer. That's it. You've all convinced. >> Chris Dechter: Well, but if we go back, validated. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The craziness we're going.

>> Jamie Rinehart: You start getting everything come in and out of that machine on one wire. Oh, that's what I feel you're talking about. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's happening. Yes. >> Jamie Rinehart: And you're gonna fail miserably. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I know. >> Jamie Rinehart: Because I already did. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I know. Well, I think you already did it. >> Chris Dechter: Already failed.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: The market wasn't ready for you. >> Jamie Rinehart: Oh, I've already failed. Most multiple times. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I know. The tool set wasn't as robust as it can be, and I think that's. We're on that edge now, right? I think there's enough better quality tools that will allow this to actually happen. >> Jamie Rinehart: Four years away from a quality or longer.

>> Chris Dechter: I mean, I think. I think. Correct me. I think we all agree that this is the way things are going, but there are all these hurdles to get over, and we're not there yet. >> Larry Darling: Well, you say that, but in a previous episode, you also said that everybody will eventually end up in island town again. >> Chris Dechter: So I don't know what I said previously. Quote. >> Larry Darling: Everybody was like, yeah, Larry's already there, and we're going

to go back to island. Town of zero trust. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Does one big island wait, but one big pool? >> Chris Dechter: Jamie just said, if we can get it down to a single connection. So we have our single source box, whatever. Our single connection. Presumably some sort of network transport. Most of those devices said network is talking to are on an island. Aren't these functionally the same things?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Dude, there is a university 45 miles south of here that they have nothing. You walk in. It's one HDMI. Ah. Port on the wall. And that is all you. >> Chris Dechter: You're that close to western Kentucky University. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Exactly. So, like, they. >> Jamie Rinehart: They don't have that either. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So I think they have a VGA program. Dude, our just

byod. We don't have anything. We don't switch anything in the room. What are you talking about? Like, so, uh, you know, my son. >> Jamie Rinehart: Goes to a school like that, and it's a one to one school. Everybody gets the same laptop, which, in my. In my mind, would make this a

perfect scenario, right? Because everybody can be given an image system that just works wherever it goes in our worlds, where most of us live, where we have the ad hoc, whoever brings in whatever, that's where it gets really sticky. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So if you were in a government environment that said, all of your devices are going to have USB C capability modernized within the last three years, and everybody's got access to that. And everything was distilled down to one

USB c port on the wall. You'd be okay with it? >> Jamie Rinehart: I'd already have it collapsed. Yeah, I've already, like I said, I've been trying to do this, and I keep running into. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think everybody is like you seeing that the manufacturers, oh, we're gonna put USB, USB C on this encoder. Is that gonna be cool for you? I'm like, I don't need five hdmi in one USB c, I just need one USB c. Like, what, what is the point?

>> Chris Dechter: Well, the challenge with the BYOD spaces, and I understand that, or the bod environments, rather, and I understand that the attraction to that, hey, I don't have to have another device in there. They're bringing in their own device. And it all comes and goes from that device.

But as you guys saw, what, less than an hour ago when I joined this very call and had the wrong microphone selected because windows decided that today I'm using this microphone, and you let me talk for like, two minutes before you pointed out that I'm on the wrong freaking microphone again. And I'd like to think that I'm somebody who's pretty savvy about devices connecting. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We let you think, for the most part.

>> Chris Dechter: Generally, I do have a cheat sheet over here. I have some post it notes. Um, that just makes me super uncomfortable. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So you're joining the dark side. You're all in. Let's go. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, what are you talk. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just PC or no PC? >> Chris Dechter: No PC. Yes. And I will fight anyone who says otherwise, because by d, environments suck. So. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, well, I'm

gonna do it. I'm gonna try going everywhere. I will build a model of this that we will all experience together. I'll let you know what we'll do. We'll join live from the PC only classroom. >> Jamie Rinehart: I just can't. >> Chris Dechter: Agreed. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's not that you can't do this at scale and across the board to make it for everybody. That's where you're going.

>> Chris Dechter: So here's the thing now, like I said, I was working this morning, the reason I was late to this call, I was working this morning, commissioning 27 new spaces. >> Jamie Rinehart: You work? >> Chris Dechter: Yes. It's the thing we do when we're on campus, like all of us are today, I was commissioning 27 new

spaces. If I go down there right now and unplug one HDMI connection in every one of them, which disconnects the dock cam from the switcher, and now the document was only connected via USB to the PC then I've already done it. So why couldn't I go do this right now? I could be back in 20 minutes and having done this, you'd still have two though. >> Larry Darling: You'd have the HDR.

>> Chris Dechter: I already said I backtrack and I'm going to groove Larry and provide that second one for the person to bring in the. >> Larry Darling: Make sure you weren't backtracking on the backtrack. >> Marc Cholewczynski: What if you provide it? Do you find a post it note and say all collaboration services are not included with this connection? >> Chris Dechter: Yes. Actually what they, that is, it's not a post it. Not,

it is engraved on the cable in tiny little lettering. But no, not to be used for. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Anything other than HDMI. >> Chris Dechter: M connections for BYOD is for presentation only. You want to talk to a camera, microphone, use that computer that is sitting 2ft away. So. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mhm. And if everybody, everybody who is using that system USB C for see, we're done. See where it's either just PC or only USB C. I do, I do look at it.

>> Chris Dechter: USB is not mature enough. >> Jamie Rinehart: And maybe some options in the future where computers are built where they will, they will natively send the software video outputs that you don't have to have DisplayPort, you don't have to have HDMI. It just, if you want a network connection to your just go. >> Chris Dechter: So you're talking again. >> Jamie Rinehart: Application layer monitor is more of a virtual monitor and it networks to whatever you're

sending it to. That's where this really, this idea will really bring fruition to me. I'm all about, I'm trying to get rid of some of these widgets and tchotchkes and movements. >> Chris Dechter: But, and Jamie, you're right, we talked about this probably two years ago or more that it was surprising that Microsoft, if you recall about two years ago started integrating uh, native NDI ingest into teams. So you can have NDI that you.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Have to have super privileges to get. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah there are network and application layers problems with it, but it's there which, which says to me that they're, they're basically one step away from just saying, hey, windows twelve has ndi native across the board and if they did that, then you're, then you're exactly where you want to be.

>> Jamie Rinehart: But yeah, but this goes back to my, my whole bitching and moaning about, you know, we got spatial audio in teams, right? But you can't use PowerPoint to share directly into teams and have presentation mode. Right. There's no virtual share right out of. Right. So you still have to go through this damn video output process to get this to go correctly. It's dumb. >> Chris Dechter: Well, they can't even get teams to talk properly with Outlook, so there's 365 for y'all.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm getting you guys for Christmas 365. >> Chris Dechter: That's fun. Is having to use two different versions of Outlook to display things. Display the same things the right way and need to go back and forth. Yes. Ridiculous. Yeah. All right. Anyway, um, so this is all coming. >> Jamie Rinehart: I love the new licensing. It's 365 premiere. So then you can get copilot. >> Chris Dechter: Look for your. Look for your AI enabled PC

device. Thingamat. Thingama widget coming to a, uh, every space near you in the next seven to twelve years. But it'll happen soon enough. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's coming. >> Chris Dechter: It's coming. All right, we'll take quick break. Come back. We're talking about the arms race for recruiting students with lots of suns out. Guns out. All right, take a break here with this one. >> Speaker G: To be sure. Bring your stars. It's amazing. It's astounding.

It's unbelievable. Bring it. Gigabytes and six pounds of pit will crush a resolution smashing prehistoric insanity. If you forget your thing, I'll make you to your next av integration. You're gonna be dead or in jail. And if you in jail, break out remember, we do it with job site. Don't forget to bring us to another fine product by independent amalgamate. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Killing those drums, Larry. You're killing those drums, buddy.

>> Chris Dechter: Yeah, Larry, I had somebody ask. They said, hey, whose band is that? I said, it was Larry's metal band. Yeah, Larry's a drummer. >> Larry Darling: My garage. >> Chris Dechter: All right, so final topic here. This. This, uh, actually was, uh. Um. I guess, Mark, you've brought this up a number of times. And then Jamie said, oh, Mark, I think this is legit because here's an article from Edtech, uh, magazine about. >> Jamie Rinehart: I did not verify.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: That's all it takes is Ed tech. It was in ed tech. It's real. >> Chris Dechter: Well, I think it was. No, I think was not so much it was in ed tech as much as somebody else said it. So it must now be real. And damn it, Mark was right. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, it wasn't me. >> Chris Dechter: But basically the concept being that as we're trying to recruit students and we, I think all of us have this. You have

your university welcome center, your alumni center. They're all very high tech and fancy and they get all the bells and widgets. And that's because when students come to campus, that's the space they see first and they are brought into the big room, and they're wowed with all the cool, um, displays, uh, and all the. Jamie, to your point, the spatial audio showing off the, uh, promotional

video shot about campus life and all that stuff. And then they're taking on a tour of campus, showing only the best spaces and all the fun things to see. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's the most over the top timeshare presentation you've ever seen. >> Chris Dechter: Pretty much, yes. Just sign here. $1,400 a year gets you two weeks in beautiful Boca Raton. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, you know, I think a timeshare is a better investment.

>> Chris Dechter: You're the one who's just put two people into this. I don't. Did you guys go to. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, I'm looking at my third and yours. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, yeah, you're right. We've brought this up in the past. >> Chris Dechter: But more and more for recruiting. Students are like, okay, I can get the edge of the looking at the university life. And when they come to, they're like, what is. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's all of it.

>> Chris Dechter: What is this university bringing to the table? This one is clearly, put some money into their new facilities. Look at their brand new rec center. Look at their new student union. Look at all this fancy stuff going on. I want to go here. And the other one, they're walking through concrete block with pull down screens and chalkboards, and they're thinking, I don't want to sit in this for four years.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, everybody has their online component of teaching learning, and it has the built in price bump on what that cost because it's easy to do, but the online version doesn't pay for all the ancillary services that exist on campus. We need you here. I can't sell coffees in a coffee shop unless you're here. I can't sell our stuff unless you're here. Right. And so there's a concerted effort to make sure that the student experience is actually

premium. That's how we look at it. The student experience needs to be premium because they can go wherever they want, and they're voting with their dollars and their feet. And so what are you doing to provide premium service for the dwindling pool of enrollment students that are out there? Like it. There it is again, anyway, if there's less of them and you have to put your best foot

forward everywhere. Right. And I think that's kind of what the basis of the article was, is that students are mindful m and they can see the investments made, and that starts with leadership, that you have to put the money in there to prove to the students that you are investing in their experience. And long ago, we saw it in, like, athletics, right? And the different domains that that's a good. You can see it coming because we all saw the arms race in the technology for the

athletes. I think the common student is going to take a similar path. >> Jamie Rinehart: It went from stadium amenities for the fans, that's the donors to locker rooms. And you're like, wait. Or even, let's say one of the things I. One of the kids from my hometown went to Oregon, right? And one of his things is like, well, I mean, Nike rolls in a semi every week. It just gives us shit.

>> Chris Dechter: Just opens the back shoes out here. Go. >> Jamie Rinehart: I mean, you have to have some sort of talent to end up, you. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Know, getting, if that is the model. And they're attracting those students and they recognize that at that age, the young kids, they can be wowed, right? And so the same thing can be said of the same age demographic coming through campus. You want to allow

those students to bring them here. I mean, I think Nil is a very interesting lens to view this from. Like, we are now paying students to play sports. Is it? Are we going to get a world where we're going to, like, pay students to go to school? Some may say we already do. And I think Justin was talking to us. He had a boatload of money at Western that they were going to pay students to

attend school. Like, are we in that same world now? Wherever were making the investments to attract the student talent, not just the athletics, but also the academic side. >> Jamie Rinehart: I think that a few years ago, I didn't care. School was school was school.

Every school had the same brick classrooms that you go to any one of our institutions, you're going to find three or four buildings that look exactly the same as some other institution, probably even as the same damn name on the corner. As I started putting children in school, and now I'm a nerd, I notice these things, but I also listen to what other parents are saying. And what parents are saying is like, well, I'm investing in this also. Um, the students are

like, well, it's better than my high school. And in some cases, it's not. This is not better than my high school. Why am I paying all this money? >> Marc Cholewczynski: You see the bill, right? You see the technology fees all suffers. Like, you know, you're footing that bill and you have this big, giant technology fee. You want to go see where that technology fee is going.

>> Chris Dechter: And that's a valid point mark, because I've worked at universities that have, you know, the modest technology fee, the $5000 a semester sort of thing, and other ones where they have a pretty significant one, three, four, $500. And when you see that, you're like, okay, there's 22,000 students here and they're all paying 500. Where's that $10 million a year going? And some schools have been like, wow, you can really see it. They are going all in and they refreshing all the

spaces. And look at all these, um, uh, um, what do you call it? Informal learning spaces all over the place. And lots of huddle cuddle rooms and lots of. There's an esports lounge and all this stuff. And other ones, you're like, where is all this money disappearing? Because the way those uni regs are written, they're going in. It's dumped into research dollars or it goes

into something else. And I paid for the new stadium, which you're not allowed in anyway, so that's 100% valid that those tech fees are critical because everybody has them now. And how are they being leveraged? Sorry, Jamie, go ahead. >> Jamie Rinehart: I think, you know, Mark brought up a couple years ago about his conversation with Linux is like your conference room, your facilities. This is your recruitment activity,

right? If they walk in here and it's a, it's an Amazon, a Walmart special tv and a webcam, the kids are going to go, what? Why? Um, but I think that is bleeding over into the classroom. Now, when I do do college students tours with my own children, um, or go visit some of your guys institutions, I hear other comments because let's face it, us parents are forking over quite a bit of money into this whole scheme as well. And even the parents are going like, hold on, that building's awesome. But

are all of them this way? And then you hear the 20 year old tour guide go, but this is what's on the tour building special because this is the business. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Do you ever, like, um, come across those tours and like, overhear what they're selling? Like, it's always the best. Like, show. You want to see the real stuff? Follow me. Come here, I will show you. Like, yeah, let's go for a look.

>> Chris Dechter: At this old dorm. They knocked down two walls. I made a new classroom. >> Jamie Rinehart: But we're seeing. Yeah, but we're seeing dorms. Arms race and dorms, right? It's all to get. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. It's all like super Airbnb, man. Like, we got to go. Like, that's. That's good. >> Jamie Rinehart: We've got to get it. And I think classrooms are becoming the same. Um, and now it's, you know,

can I see it? Does it look good? And, you know, does it fulfill what I need it to fulfill? Um. I don't hear much from instructors and things. This is all about the student dollars. And to Mark's point earlier, they're voting with their feet. It's just way too easy to move. It's way too easy. It didn't used to be that way when we transferred back in the day, right? You had to fill out 18,000 pages of applications, and then it was horrible. Now it's

clicked. Click, click, click, click, click, click, go. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Done. >> Jamie Rinehart: And you're moved. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep. >> Jamie Rinehart: You're moving in next week. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So it's a limit. The pools, you know, it's dwindling. And so I think, you know, it is mindful to look at your leadership and how their perspective are they making the investments in that infrastructure that is as forward facing as possible for

students. You know, where's that going? And as you're touring for the parents out there are touring. Look at your spaces. You know, when you're on those tours, ask, is this a normal classroom? Is this a special space? Like, ask, like, the questions about what is the student technology experience in the teaching and learning? Like, they may not be able to answer it, but then go in and look, you know, what does it look like? Is there cables hanging down from the ceiling?

Is it clean? Is it dressed like, uh. You know, what does it look like when you're walking through the building? Just open a round door and look in there. One of the classrooms. Yeah. They're taking you on the one they want you to see, but I bet you the other one's unlocked. Peek in there, take a look. >> Jamie Rinehart: And it's not all. And here's what I also want to stress. In our world, it's not always just what's in the

classroom, right? I can tell you that the LMS systems and how they're set up between my two children's schools and then what we're running and then what? Some of the other schools, institutions, I'm like, that. That's a big technology fee. And some of them I. My son's school in particular, he logged in, and it truly was a one stop shop for everything that kid needed, from his LMS to his financial aid to paying his bill. There was not this hopping around to these 17 different departments and

portals. It was one. I'm like, holy crap, this is not a giant school. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And they got it right, the Amazon experience. >> Jamie Rinehart: And then I look at other schools that I am a little bit closer to. And I'm like, there's seven portals just to approve time. Come on. Um, but that's also a place to look, too, while your kid is applying, while they're looking at financial aid packages during the whole

setup time, or even afterwards they're in school. Let me see your lms. That might tell you a lot. What's canvas? Is it whatever. You might be surprised. That's seven different portals, each with their. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Own HDMI cable, so you can choose which one you want. >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, I have to use Moodle for these two classes and canvas for these three other ones, and then this other one uses teams, but not university

teams. I have to have my own account to get into it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's right. >> Jamie Rinehart: That doesn't seem. You should probably drop that one. >> Marc Cholewczynski: There you go. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, well, and one thing we didn't bring up was it's not directly AV related, but a lot of the question about student

technology and access. Student technology talks about devices, students who pay a tech fee and does that tech fee over four years, do they get a brand new laptop on day one? Are they provided with all sorts of repair and support services, and then they take that with them when they're done? Um, and we do that here. Not to bring the laptop, but we provide unlimited support for anybody's device. You bring it in, because that's a student facing, uh, technology service to

basically. Yeah, bring in your ancient three year old Chromebook running, whatever weird thing, and someone here for no charge is going to sit there and work with you to try to get your courses loaded and all that stuff. And that's what they do. That's. There is a service that we provide for that, so that improves that student experience. And that one's a pretty low hanging fruit. It is certainly cost intensive because you have to have staff there to do that on every possible device.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Gobs of legacy support. >> Chris Dechter: But that's one of the. One of the decisions made here was, from an IT perspective, from a technology perspective, for a student facing technology, that's a pretty low hanging fruit to tackle. So look for that sort of thing. And then, you know, also look for those opportunities to build out student

access. Student access space. Is that the right terms? Student accessible spaces, however you want to phrase that, that are a little more elegant, a little fancier, schmancier. And you don't have to go all in with, like, our led walls everywhere. Sometimes just putting a 86 inch, you know, display on the wall with an HDMI connection. Let them do whatever the hell they want with it. You know, that's. They want to bring in an Xbox.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Chargers and the furniture. USB freaking do advocate for USB charging anywhere in any project in which you're. >> Chris Dechter: Going to be, or even just general charging because students are carrying around their power supplies. We have a new building that's. Or a space in a new, new space in a building that's being worked on, and they're flexible furniture and flexible seating and soft seating and

all this fun stuff. And I said, where's the power? Well, it's along here on the walls. I said, great. You realize on day two there's going to be power strips and extension cords everywhere because the students are very savvy about finding how to get to electricity because they need that every three to 6 hours. They have to charge up all their stuff, and so you need to provide it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Being stuck at an airport, what do you need when you're at an airport?

>> Jamie Rinehart: We had, uh, before pandemic. We did. We were advocating to put the USB chargers, like, in every outlet. Every, everything everywhere. If it's got to get touched, put one of these things in. And we had some administration push back because they wanted to buy the airport chargers and charge the students to charge their phones. >> Larry Darling: Worst case. >> Jamie Rinehart: And we go, why would you do that? They're just going

to start plugging them into the computers. Well, we'll just turn the USB ports on the computers off. >> Chris Dechter: Um. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Should never be looking at that like a money administration. >> Jamie Rinehart: Come on. It is. >> Larry Darling: Yeah. No cell phone power. >> Jamie Rinehart: Come on. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Or they ve them out. We took them out, but we got these fancy $40 billion ottomans over here.

It's like, cool. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, the furniture. Yeah, the furniture stuff is an aggravation because I understand you want nicer furniture, you want comfortable furniture, et cetera. But when you look at a project budget and you know, 2% of that is the technology and you're, you're pinching. Pinching pennies to get the, the project done and do what it needs to do, and yet they're talking about their $400,000 for new furniture, seating areas, and it's.

Yeah, it's aggravating. So. All right, well, yeah, don't do that. Put in better technology for students. The end. >> Jamie Rinehart: Did we flex? I think you flexed, Mark. I think that's what this whole little mark's flex. Look how smart I was years ago, you idiots. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Put power everywhere and a blind squirrel will find a nut sometimes.

>> Chris Dechter: So I thought you were saying, even the sun shines in my dog's ass sometimes, but, yeah, you spout off enough stuff, eventually something's gonna be correct, right? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Some of it's gonna. Yeah. Broken. >> Chris Dechter: Well, as Larry pointed out, I apparently contradicted myself and had to, like, pivot that pretty quickly and try to lump that in together. I don't remember what I said last time.

>> Larry Darling: Hey, it's one of my few wins, so I marked it down. >> Jamie Rinehart: See, now you're victory. >> Chris Dechter: Well, we'll look back on this show is our predictions for three to five years from now and see how correct we were or something. So I agree that we'll come back and talk about next week. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Fix that fire alarm. >> Chris Dechter: Well, we've managed to ruin yet another episode of AV

Super Friends off the rails. You can contact us with questions, topic ideas, or general complaints at mailbag@avsuperfriends.com dot. If you complain loud enough, we might just invite you on the show. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Nice work, everyone. >> Chris Dechter: Sharp broadcast. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Really good. >> Chris Dechter: Everyone on the floor as well. Really a lot of hustle. I

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