>> Chris Dechter: This is AV super friends off the rails, an almost regularly scheduled open discussion on audio and video in higher education. We'll sound off about our most brilliant ideas, our dumbest mistakes, and everything in between. And because this conversation will almost certainly go off the rails at some point, we'll end up covering just about everything else. And now, the AV super friends for October 11, 2024. It's the best
sounding podcast in higher Ed. This is the AV super Friends off the rails, episode number 96. Four more to go. 696 of wow, plus all the other stuff we've done. It's closer to 200, but stop ignoring how I count things. Broadcasting live across four time zones from coast to coast, easternmost to westernmost, northernmost to southernmost gate post to hitching post. I'm your local host, who can boast the most milk toast and
utmost humility. I'm Chris texture. Time for their Friday afternoon podcast adventure, and let's say hello to our slightly larger than normal panel of AV super friends. So today I'm joined by a relational integration developer. Good lord. From Kansas City, Jamie Reinhart. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's a new app now that you can find a relationship in that sounds terrible. >> Chris Dechter: In, like, 2008. Also joined by a national divisional developer from two developers.
Good crap. National, uh, divisional developer from Corvallis, Oregon, Mark Cholewczynski. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I have an idea. We're going to draw all the lines, and we're going to divide horizontally. >> Jamie Rinehart: I bring them together, Mark tears them apart. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Tear them apart. >> Chris Dechter: I'll probably look at that when I write these up. Uh, also, a future usability supervisor from Greensboro, North Carolina, Larry Darling.
>> Larry Darling: Yep, using the future again. >> Chris Dechter: It's looking good. Also joined by our vice president for internal communications, from Bowling Green, Kentucky, Justin Rexing. >> Justin Rexing: There shall be no external communications. >> Chris Dechter: Only internal. >> Justin Rexing: Only internal.
>> Chris Dechter: And finally, joined by a dynamic paradigm representative from an acoustically treated survival bunker deep in the mountains outside of Los Angeles, California, Mikey Schaefer. >> Speaker F: Yeah, there are plenty of bunkers in the mountains of California. I know other states don't want to believe that, but we've got our mountain people, too. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's right. Secure. >> Justin Rexing: I think it's the longest title we've ever had.
>> Larry Darling: Seriously? >> Marc Cholewczynski: It worked out. >> Speaker F: Oh, thank you for touch. My title, does it sit on a. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Business card on the two sides they work with? >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Jamie Rinehart: So on today's show, just to put. >> Chris Dechter: It up there, on today's show, we're going to discuss Bluetooth, assistive technologies and AI generated transcripts
for your meetings and classes. But first, it's not the news, it's some housekeeping. So always a reminder, we'd love for you to connect with us on the socials. Follow us on Twitter at av superfriends. LinkedIn. I don't know, figure it out. Find it on LinkedIn. It's terrible. Uh, YouTube at Av super friends. Uh, follow us there to keep up with the latest updates and news and all that fun stuff. Um, I do have a link tree, but I'm not going to try to
explain how to find that on this one. Go to Linktree avs if you figure it out. Um, please spread the word. Share this podcast with your friends enemies, perfect strangers, anyone else who might enjoy it. If you could hold people down and tickle them. And while they're distracted, add, uh, this podcast to their phone. That would be great. >> Marc Cholewczynski: If you ever see a phone just lying around, just grab that in there. >> Speaker F: Yeah, it's not weird.
>> Jamie Rinehart: Just get on the bus, in the subway and airdrop it to everybody within reach. >> Marc Cholewczynski: There you go. >> Chris Dechter: Just ride public transportation, airdropping the link to everybody. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, spin up a little hot spot says free wiFi. Just go for it. >> Chris Dechter: If you'd like to support. >> Larry Darling: No, that's exciting. >> Marc Cholewczynski: If you may have talked, that was not on purpose.
>> Justin Rexing: We did not try to set that up. >> Chris Dechter: If you'd like to support the show, please consider donating. Uh, your contributions help us, uh, keep bringing you the honest content you love and love to hate. So, find the donation link in the show notes and on the website. Please reach out via email mailbag at av super friends. Find us on Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube. We want to hear from you and get
your comments. And finally, while you're subscribing those random phones to, uh, um, all those different services, please rate and review because that helps with the algorithms and bumps us up higher. So there you go. All right, enough of that nonsense. You've waited for it all week. Where's my button? It's over here. It's time for Justin singing along with the news theme. >> Justin Rexing: Oh. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, he's so excited now.
>> Justin Rexing: Maybe I should just do that live instead and then re record that and just. >> Jamie Rinehart: No, no. >> Chris Dechter: That's how you did it the first time and I captured it. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's so good. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You can never recreate that magic. >> Chris Dechter: Um, so today's news comes from Ed Surge and I, I guess a bit of background here. Our
entire show today, I think this is one of the first times we've ever done this. We're going to have the news article and all the topics of discussion is all generally on the same overall topic. But with different spins on it, obviously, um, of assistive technologies. And so, um, very well curated. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This took, like, hours of conversation to get here. >> Chris Dechter: This did. It took a lot of setting up, actually
jump right into it. So, um, today's article is from Ed Surge and it is titled our schools and edtech companies ready for the digital accessibility deadline. Answer's no. Moving on. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Move on. >> Justin Rexing: Do they know about it? >> Jamie Rinehart: I'm, um, pretty sure this article was the first time many even heard about. Wait, what? >> Justin Rexing: That's my. Exactly.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: So I have brought this up many a time here that our university is like, deep, deep, deep into this and we are committed. Our leadership says we're all in. We are going to do this by 2025, which by my clock is not that far away from today, like right now. Yeah. And so we're in the throngs of this whole thing, in the digital side of it, and what that means, focusing on that web piece. And it is all hands on deck. Everything is getting broken
down. Like, it is kind of wild how this is kind of spinning out and it's lots of resources, but I can't imagine smaller schools and other institutes are kind of even aware of what's about to happen when all this kind of goes through. And so our show of hands, do you have a concerted effort around the horn here of your school actually taking this in and actually making any changes because of it? >> Chris Dechter: Yes, sure.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Chris Dechter: That's about as far as we got. >> Jamie Rinehart: So I am sure that there are discussions at some level that we're going to have to address this at some time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mhm. >> Jamie Rinehart: And yet. No. Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Hopefully the person who comes behind me and comes and takes this job later on is going to be the one who deals with it. Is it my problem?
>> Chris Dechter: After they fire me, it'll be that person's problem, right? >> Speaker F: Yeah. >> Larry Darling: Ah. I think we're probably hoping we're in the school size that gets to wait till 2027, not the 2026 school size. >> Justin Rexing: Is this done by size? >> Larry Darling: There are two different deadlines based upon how big your school is. >> Justin Rexing: So I guess. Do we want to talk about what this actually means or what it is first?
>> Chris Dechter: Yeah, tell us. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just explain it to us. Justin. What's going on? >> Justin Rexing: I don't know. You're the one who brought it up to me and we have an ADA expert on our. You all explained it. I'm going to butcher it if I explain it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. Uh, I will tell it from the vantage point where we are looking at it here and then it's quasi what you see in
this article for those links in the show notes. Um, our stance is anything that's web delivered has to be completely accessible, full stop, right? So that's everything from web pages. Any content is going to be generated, created in the name of teaching, learning and hosted. All must be accessible, meet all the guidelines. Um, our state went all in on this and they are saying we want all the institutions to also follow suit. So any public events, every,
everything across the board has to meet this criteria. If there's a web element involved. Right? >> Chris Dechter: Larry, I think it's not just web, I think it's any sort of digital element, it's digital content. So even if I'm displaying it locally, it has to be fully accessible for screen readers and all the rest. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's where our like immediate interest is, like in that domain. But our university is kind of coming in through that web first philosophy.
So we have like 30,000 web pages and all those links and all this content, they're unraveling right now because it's a big lift. And so what does that look like? We know full well that we're going to be next up to bat here and we're going to have to figure this out as well in the public venues and those spaces. And so what does this look like? So we're kind of hanging out, just kind of waiting
and kind of getting some guidance to find out which way it's going to go. Uh, but we know we have to start making moves and surprise, spoiler alert, this is not going to be free. It's going to take time and money to get this right. And so therein lies the mystery. So who, where are the resources coming from? How much energy, who's doing what? And this is going to be an addition on top of everything that's already being done with your normal
jobs. This is going to be a hat we will all have to wear. >> Larry Darling: So will the four by three PowerPoints be compliant before they are widescreen or is it going to happen at the same time? >> Marc Cholewczynski: We're just gonna stretch them, stretch them out and paste that language on there.
>> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, I think in the way, the way I look at this and what kind of concerns me also is that, uh, two, um, things, um, one, that the onus is on the institution, whether it's k twelve, whether it's college or whatnot, and so that fine, everything within their purview they can control. So to Mark's point, any webpage, anyheendeh, any digital content that's coming out of classrooms or whatever, right, you can handle that because it's within your ecosphere.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Can you say you can? >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, let's just say that you can. Um, what concerns me and what I think is going to be one of the biggest hangups here are all of those contracts with providers that you're using for the math programs you're using for.
I'm just throwing examples out, but we know they're out there and we know that there's some of these, uh, private entities who sell content, um, from publishing houses, from whatever that are going to may not be so efficient to come up to this. Well, you've already signed a contract and this is where the pricing comes in. So if the onus is on the institution to provide all of these things, but the contract, the service provider is not.
Oh my, this just starts getting into this really horrible cycle of you're at fault. No, you're at fault. No, here's my lawyer. No, there's your lawyer and there's this other lawyer. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It actually is a strategy though. Like what you're talking about is actually part of the strategy where we're saying, well, what can we control? What
are our known knowns and what are our unknowns? And then anything where that contract is involved, we're having to lean and say, and by the way, if you would like to continue taking money from the institution, you're going to have to meet this guideline. What is your plan? We're not going to develop it for you. If you want to continue
to play, please meet this criteria. So there's a lot of whole team of experts and legalese just kind of untangling whatever that looks like because the contracts are very wide and far reaching and kind of, uh, wedged themselves into a lot of different services. >> Jamie Rinehart: The thing that always bothers me, I'm m a big advocate for making sure that we find the right solution for the right need. And one of the things that bothers me is that they're trying to do all of them.
And I'm like, man, um, you're not going to hit all of them. You can't. So where does the onus start and stop? So as much as an advocate I am for this, I'm also like, man, this is too ubiquitous. This is what do we do? And maybe that's where you're at, right? It's like, what do we do? How do we get all of what. >> Justin Rexing: It'S those two words that are associated with this is what best effort, right? Is that there's a lot of that.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, you're not wrong. Um, like, do the best you can. And I actually like that. It's very broad and ominous and, like, holy Christ, there's no way we're gonna do this. Great. That gives us all something to then take. Okay, well, what does that mean? It's a good disruptor. And I like that it's so large because it's going to change everything. And we have to have the conversation. If it was just little bits and pieces, it'd be
litigated out and blah, blah, blah. But this is so big, there's probably some, some capacity for some litigation to come in here, but they're still going to be left with a big chunk that you're going to have to figure out. >> Justin Rexing: Are there going to be a need for, like, hiring more internal ADA auditors? >> Larry Darling: Because we already are. Like, we're already building out our AdA team.
My bigger concern is, for the next year to year and a half, I don't think most of our schools have enough instructional designers to change all the learning objects that have been in these courses forever, because the majority, like, back when I used to work at Butler, I had theater and dance instructors who had used the same content for 20 years, and, uh, they were upset when I took the VCR away. Like, how are they, how are you going to rebuild every course to be compliant in the next year?
>> Justin Rexing: Take it offline. And you only. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Right. You'll flag the ones that are and the ones that are your champions, and they've moved that way and that there's, there's your model. Right. So now we have something to assess against, and I think it's going to be ugly. Right. And then we're not even getting into, like, the
technology that's going to mean a lot of things. We're clearly looking at just in this vantage point of through the web and m. It was the one that I think a lot of our IT departments are saying, yeah, that's our stuff. We at least can come in there. We're not even at the conversation. We're talking all the different pieces that are bolt on to that. So, Chris, and you're doing everything right. You're by the book, to the tache, everything.
>> Chris Dechter: We've already done all this. We're good. >> Jamie Rinehart: They just cut the cord in Wyoming. No, no more. >> Justin Rexing: We don't have electric class only. No content delivery via web. >> Chris Dechter: Well, Justin, to that point in person or not, you have to still, uh, have captions, descriptions, all that stuff on there. So I, um, think. And, Mark, you had mentioned, like, how broad and wide
wide ranging. This is, I think the advantage there is. This is a kind of, it's almost like that carrot and stick sort of model. This is the big stick. You have to do all this. Yeah, it's never a big carrot. This is the big stick. You have to do all this stuff. And if you only accomplish 25%, that's 25% more than you
had previously. So that's a win regardless. So any amount you do is a win, whether or not, you know, we get everything set up the right way with the script of audio and captions and all the rest, you know, screen reader compliant and everything. Probably not. Certainly not in the next year or two or three, but hey, if it takes ten years, we're making progress in improving that learning experience for people who, who use those. So it's a win win, but like, it's a minor win.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Chime in, get into it. >> Speaker F: I appreciate that you referred to me as an ADA expert slash bunker dweller, and I am, as it pertains to assistive listening. Right. That's what I do. Um, but you make so many solid points when you talk about using the resources. You have to do the broadest amount of good with what you have available to you right now. That is the start. The ADA
law. I mean, for assistive listening, it's updated one time since 91, which, by the way, it only went into effect in 91. That's kind of heinous. That's so recent, right, that we would begin to accommodate folks, but it's only been updated one time, and I can tell you that was in 2010. Went into effect in 2012. I still once a month post a webinar where I have to educate folks around this and they're learning it for the first time. They are still clinging to the old
requirements. And in some ways, when they make these adjustments, they help a broader amount of people in other ways. They can never do enough good. And you're going to leave out someone who wants to be accommodated differently. I get asked, you know, um, captions get conflated with assisted listening all the time. We have captions. Well, generally hard of hearing. People can hear. They just need a little help. They're not trained to rely on caption.
So Ada law is written to do the broadest amount of good for the broadest amount of folks and they never nail it. I mean, they're rarely asking my opinion on how to do it better or, you know, I'm m sure the same thing goes for these digital, um, these digital changes. But my advice always, when I'm in the field is do the best you can with the resources you have now, because first of all, there's not Ada police roaming the streets in most states. It's going to be someone had a need, they were not
accommodated. They filed a complaint. Right. You've already got accessibility teams in place. You've already got Ada experts in place. If they. It's kind of like assistive listening. There's all these requirements about how to meet the letter of the law, but if you just have a transmitter and a couple receivers, the chances that someone is going to not be accommodated or, you know, you have, you've got ten receivers and eleven people check
them out that day. That's pretty rare. You're doing what you can with the resources you have. That's the best place to start. And in my experience, I've seen it take years and years and years to get where you need to be. Technology is going to change again by the time you get where you need to be. Um, but if you can show that you're doing your best, I mean, I'll get off my soapbox now, but you said a few things that I use every, every month in my webinars. Just start somewhere.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: You got. You have to. Right. And I think that's why I like it being just as big as it possibly can be. Because let's get something, let's start somewhere, pick something out of this and start moving. And because even if you do one thing, you'll be better off than you were yesterday when you're doing nothing. Right. And so it's in the name of greater good. So that's we have to move forward and let's do it. Let's make a splash. Let's jump in and
figure it out. Right. So that's why I actually felt it was awesome that we had this giant thing coming, because now we have something new. Something new we have to now take into account that can change the way we're looking at things. So. >> Speaker F: And as far as your content vendors, I mean, may the best man win. They know. They know about the gap. They've been thinking about it longer than you guys have, probably, and they know that it's their competitive
advantage to do something about it. So. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Cool. Well, this article has a little bit of sneak preview in it if you want to kind of dig into that a little more. So some good links in there for those, um, in the comments. Check that out to kind of see it. Maybe it's the first time you ever heard it. Um, get more comfortable with that. Because I think, uh, it's coming. >> Justin Rexing: Well, something that you brought up to us, Mark, is that
maybe states add on to the federal stuff, right? So maybe kind of describe an example of that that happened to you to make it even more strict based upon your region or state. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, I think it was the state came in and said, yeah, we're going to do
all this stuff, right? And so that was state agency. We're going to, we're going to take all this in to be really aggressive about how we're going to do it and effectively ask all the large organizations and employers within the state, hey, we'd like you to sign onto this and commit to a leadership level. And so it becomes part of the mission, right. And so now that's how it gets into the actual, um, evolution and actually getting down to happening.
It's one thing to post, hey, we want you to all do this, but then you don't have leadership and buy in and resources committed to doing it never happens. This is how you commit to actually making it happen. So, um, the state was aggressive, our organization was very aggressive. And so now it's part of our actual mission, and we're going to go all in and put the resources we need behind it. And there
are resources out there in the name of this, right? We're not, it's not being asked, like, figure it out, you know, go into the couch cushions and put it all together and figure it out. Like, there are real resources. Be intentional. What can you do? What can't you do? What's keeping you from doing? What are your limitations? And start getting creative. Like, you can get resources in the name of getting this done. So anyway, I think it's a good spot.
Let's, let's take a pause here because I think we want to come back and jump into like, this larger piece of this. And I think this is a good tipping into this, tiptoe into this water, because I think it's so vast in the, in the whole Ada landscape that, um, I want to get into some of the specifics and some of the stuff that, mikey, you have to share with us in the larger piece of this fair. Chris, what kind of fancy advertisement can we see?
>> Chris Dechter: I was just looking at this like, do I switch some of these up based on, um, the, uh, based on our discussion here? So I'll say, let's see, we'll do this. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Surprise. >> Chris Dechter: Take a quick break, come back and. >> Justin Rexing: We'Ll, uh, we have an ADa commercial. >> Chris Dechter: We don't. So, Justin, write that real quick. >> Justin Rexing: I'll work on that.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, back in a minute. >> Speaker G: Are you tired of those outdated digital signage displays cluttering up your campus? Do you wish there was a way to keep your events fresh and exciting month after month? Introducing independent amalgamated analog digital signage, the only service that delivers brand spanking new informational posters right to your doorstep every single month. It's the beginning of
the month, and what do you get? A shiny new poster with all the latest event details ready to dazzle your colleagues. Not only will our posters keep your events looking fresh, but they'll also keep you on your toes. Because our posters are printed weeks in advance, the information may not always be correct, but hey, who needs accuracy when you've got a style? With independent amalgamated analog digital signage, you'll never have to worry about boring clip art, stock video footage, and
converted PowerPoint files again. Join the madness today and watch your workplace transform into a poster paradise. Independent amalgamated analog digital signage. Because who needs accuracy when you've got style so good. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Stack. >> Chris Dechter: These posters look fantastic. >> Marc Cholewczynski: They look great. >> Chris Dechter: Love them. >> Justin Rexing: Speaking of so good, I think our star wipe effect, like,
locked up during the commercial. Did you all see that or is that just me? >> Chris Dechter: I had beautiful star wipe the entire time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Really glorious. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's m Christmas. >> Chris Dechter: The only effect you want. Star wipe everywhere. >> Jamie Rinehart: We will never see any other effect. >> Speaker F: I am 100% learning the term star wipe for the first time. I would have guessed it.
I thought it was like a ding party thing. >> Chris Dechter: Jamie's so upset. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It could be. >> Justin Rexing: It could be both. >> Chris Dechter: Multiple things. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We can start this right now. >> Chris Dechter: All right, so let's talk about, uh, let's continue on our overall discussion of our topic of, uh, assistive technology. Let's talk about assistive listening systems and some interesting developments
in the realm of Bluetooth. Um, bluetooth, specifically, Bluetooth low energy audio assistive listening systems, or broadcast, I guess. >> Jamie Rinehart: What sounded like an energy drink. This is bloat. Bluetooth, low energy. >> Chris Dechter: I'm not the one who named it. >> Justin Rexing: I'm excited. I'll be 1000 right now from listen. >> Jamie Rinehart: The Bluetooth low energy drink.
>> Chris Dechter: A bit of background on this discussion. So we covered during our infocom wrap up, kind of like the best things we saw on the show floor. And one of those items was from listen technologies, and it was the new, uh, the re product, the re line of Bluetooth transmitter systems. I'm butchering this whole thing, but you know what I'm getting at. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Keep digging on this. >> Justin Rexing: You're doing great.
>> Chris Dechter: And so then listen reached out and said, hey, that's a great discussion. Can we talk more about what that means? And we thought, no, we're not gonna do that at all. So here we are. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Turned us down. >> Speaker F: We like our description. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. So we're joined today. Um, Mikey, uh, Schaefer, she is not a dynamic paradigm
representative. Or maybe she isn't her spare time. I don't know. So Mikey is the senior sales director from Listen Technologies to tell us all about the re Bluetooth systems and why we think this has the success written all over it. Because I think we all have ir, rf, t coil, we've got all these different systems, the wifi ones, but
they all come with challenges. So the Bluetooth one, I think, because that's the request I'm getting on my campus, is people just want to use, uh, the hearing aids they already have or even just their headphones for just a little amplified boost. Want to have to self identify by wearing something else. And so Bluetooth using the devices they're already carrying with them. That's a fantastic solution. So
this is Mikey. Welcome to the madness. And thanks for, uh, thanks for putting up with our nonsense for the whole. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Show, telling us, tell us how we're all doing it wrong. And when you're looking at things a new way. >> Speaker F: I have been looking for new friends, and if they're the super variety I am, that's even better. So I appreciate even being here. Do not apologize. >> Chris Dechter: Welcome aboard.
>> Speaker F: That convoluted description is exactly where we should start, because I think you, I think everyone's excited. They're right to be excited. It's a lot of word salad to even. I always, there's like a preamble before I can even get to the technology of why we're even here. Right? Um, so why we're here is because Bluetooth is making some changes. Um, so we know Bluetooth technology. We know it, we love it, we know the logo, we all use it. It does exactly what it was built to
do. Replace a cable. Right. But folks always have wanted it to do many, many more things, especially assistive listening. If you go to the Bluetooth website, you're going to see assistive listening all over it. And a year ago, you were seeing all these case studies from hearing aid manufacturers, and manufacturers like us, begging for some new protocols. So let's start there. Um, ble. Bluetooth low energy is the new, it's a new version of Bluetooth plastic. Bluetooth's
not going away. We all want to have private phone calls and listen to our speakers. Bluetooth low energy, though, is going to answer some of the issues they had. So uh, audio quality for. It's not really wasn't built for live audio, right. It doesn't know what to do with that live audio handoff. It knows what to do with the phone call. Um, that introduces latency when we're talking about live um, live
applications, right. Anytime we're making that jump from Bluetooth to our hearing aid or anything else, there's some latency added. It's uh, huge battery drain. Right on. Most people are listening on small devices so it's going to kill that battery. Um, the range is pretty minimal, what, 30ft maybe, with great Bluetooth. And then it's a one to one pairing, right. There's all these limitations for how we'd like to use it versus how
it's being used. So Bluetooth classic will still exist. It will be improved upon by Bluetooth low energy. You'll hear the term aura cast though that is what a branded term within the Bluetooth, uh, special interest group. So what that is, is the broadcast protocol with that Ble now offers. So you will see a logo, it'll be like intel inside, you'll see it slapped over everything at the next infocom, right. That's the broadcast protocol that Ble offers. And we are part
of the Bluetooth special interest group. Other manufacturers like us are, we've all been there for a very long time. They've been working on this for like ten years. And why that's important is because when you are broadcasting it is very important that we all agree to certain protocols to work within so that all of our equipment can work together.
The Bluetooth group imagines this to be, you know, the next thing, I mean their ads are like, hey, I'm riding the bus and I have my sweet jams and I just want to broadcast that to everyone here that wants to hear it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: My own pirate radio show, that's exactly what I thought of when I saw, I don't know that that's what I wanted. >> Speaker F: I need Phil. But um, in general, in the consumer sense, yes. That's what they're thinking
or what we do. It's perfect for assistive listening and that's the direction that most assisted listening, whether that's hearing aids or kind of broadcast. Like what we do is we're investing heavily in that. And so um, because we're all building from the same set of parameters and I want to be clear, those parameters are still, they're still working on them, they're still being developed right now as we speak.
Um, that means that when we introduce our transmitter and our receivers and the next phone you buy, or the next, uh, hearing aids you buy, or earbuds, they'll be compatible, right? We're going to work together, which blows. I mean, this blows this whole conversation out of the water. We're building towards a world that is accessible for everyone. Um, and not just hard of hearing folks, but everyone can join. And we all have examples of places where it's just hard to hear. The airports, right.
Come to mind. So that's why that, um, auricast protocol is important. And then Ori is our product name within it. And, um, I gotta back this truck up there, if that's okay. And mention that, um, we have co developed it with ampatronic. So for anyone out there who doesn't know ampatronic, they are also an assistive listening manufacturer in the space of inductive hearing loops, which I'm sure you guys all have at least one on your campus, right? Um, they are actually a sister company now, we are
part of a. This, uh, is perfect for the topic. Today. We are part of sisterhood. Um, the company is called Alvita is the broader company. And it is a group of like minded accessibility manufacturers. So, yes, we're there. Um, contacta, also an inductive loop manufacturer, is there, but, ah, there's audio companies, but there's also evacuation chairs, three wheeled bicycles. Uh, all manner of accessibility products that we can work together. Not work together, when
it's complementary and helpful, then we do that. And in this case, it made so much sense. Um, both ampatronic and listen, we are full to the brim with very, very smart people. We put our little nerd brains together and developed this product and brought it to market very, very quickly. So we're very proud of that. But I don't want to leave them out of this conversation. They are a big part of what we do, um, in general. So, yes, at time of launch, we'll have a transmitter. You will have
receivers. The transmitter and the receivers will work with other aura cast products in the end. But again, we're in the early days of this actually being a bring your own device scenario. So we probably do want to spend some time on that at some point today. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, I think that's like Shangri la for folks. You just walk in with every the thing you already have. You're buying a new thing or having to go get one from somewhere
else. And I think, um, as much as we get into these weird scenarios where you don't want to have to have people relying on their device all the time, but yet it's still that thing that people seem to want to be able to do. So this aligns really, really well with that philosophy. Um, quickly, though, before we go on, are most folks on this call doing, like, one of these protocols? Not the rcast one, but, like, are you doing, like, rf? Are you doing ir? Are you mixing and matching those around?
You just kind of pick one. Okay. >> Justin Rexing: I usually. >> Chris Dechter: We're all over. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Whoa. >> Chris Dechter: Um. Go ahead. >> Speaker F: I usually, every one of you is 100% compliant. I'm confident. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah, I stay away from Wi Fi. Yeah, I tend to go more towards IR and RF and lean towards more the RF side, normally. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Really?
>> Larry Darling: Yeah, I lean more toward ir just because it's easier. I put that in a room. I don't have to worry about it 100%. >> Speaker F: And you know who else it's easier for is your students. Um, just because they just walk into a room and that audio is secure to the room. So maybe it's not, you know, high stakes boardroom conversations, but the fact that secure to the room means they never have to change a channel. They just walk in the
room and it connects. So for them, that's great. Uh, with RF, I mean, it's a very simple way to do it, too, but the assumption is that they're not all going to be turned on at the same time. Right. Otherwise you'll very quickly run out of rf space. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, but it's lovely coordinating that. Yeah, absolutely. That is a treat to have to go through and get all those rooms perfectly. >> Chris Dechter: I set them all to channel one. It's fine.
>> Speaker F: No, infrared has a bad. You know, historically, people, you know, experienced dropouts and things like that. We've personally solved that at listen. But it is really the easiest way to do multiple spaces, even divisible spaces. Our receivers are going to pick up the strongest signal, so it's pretty easy. So if you're doing ir, don't feel bad about that
just because auricast exists. The truth is, every conversation that is initiated by oracast with higher, uh, education facility in general, and every facility starts out there and ends up talking about the pros and cons of all of the technologies, because what we're really trying to do is solve the challenges you guys have at your venue and the person who is trying to benefit from it. And that's not the same across the board. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah, you are right. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
>> Speaker F: Oh, I was just going to say we spent a lot of time, um, talking about the bring your own device capability, which is super important. I dream of working myself right out of a job. It'll probably be before I'll retire, before the world is this accessible, you guys. But, you know, my husband's hard. We benefit and use our products every day. Um, but so I really sincerely mean that if we're talking about accessibility, we
want accessibility for everyone. We want people to listen the way they want to listen. But Ada law will not catch up with that anytime soon. Again, updated one time for assistive listening in however many years. So that receiver requirement is going to follow you guys around
for a long, long time. The difference when you're using bring your own device stuff, though, is you can feel really good that it's getting used, because folks do have a receiver in their pocket specifically for Wi Fi now, eventually for oracast. >> Larry Darling: And I think it helps with that universal access, too, because they don't have to self identify. Like, as soon as I saw that at Infocom, that's what really gotten me excited.
>> Jamie Rinehart: Yes, exactly. That's. I think that's the benefit of this. And the more that that, you know, even. Even my dad started wearing, he reached the age where he is to now wear hearing aids, and he's like, it just connects to my phone. And he's excited. I'm like, perfect. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Blew his mind. He was like, what? >> Jamie Rinehart: And the fact that even, even, you know, maybe the customer that's not a youthful person,
and they learn how to do that, it's their device. They know exactly the steps. Step one, step two, step three. They're good to go. >> Chris Dechter: Right? >> Jamie Rinehart: There's no searching for. What's the. What's the Wi Fi access point for my audio? What's printed, what I are. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Where do I. >> Speaker F: Well, here's the thing. >> Jamie Rinehart: Turn it on and get to hit the beacon.
>> Speaker F: And we're talking about your students, right? They are there every day. They are going to be very familiar with how this works, and hard of hearing folks, especially, are going to absolutely know how they're. >> Jamie Rinehart: And it's just there. It's their sound level, it's their device, it's their comfort level, and it just. It's like, like Larry said, once we. >> Speaker F: Get that audio to their hearing aid, it's, um, run through their
programming. Right, right. Specifically, it's not just a volume issue. It's specifically for their specific hearing loss. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So we're seeing the other way, too. We see it, like, to the instructor, we have instructors who are hard of hearing. They're asking to, like, leverage the very similar technologies and we're like, whoa, we weren't even prepared for that conversation yet, but here we are trying to figure out how to do that. And, like,
it works, right? And I think we're actually going to see even more of that moving to moving forward. Like, it's not just the students in the audience, but it's actually people that are presenting that need that same technology access. >> Justin Rexing: So you mentioned this earlier. Um, we brought up security and some cons about it. So what are some things that we need to be aware of if we're. Because all this sounds great, and I'm trying to find the con. Maybe it's
security. Is there a way to do that? Or what are some negative things about this? >> Speaker F: Yeah, so there are ways to do that. Let's, let's, um. Let's start at the top. I mean, they're not negatives. It's just no negative. >> Jamie Rinehart: Here's my credit card. Just take it. >> Speaker F: You're in right now. But I wouldn't, um. We need to talk about timing. We need to talk
about the priority of the campus. Is the priority tomorrow, bring your own device, or at the end of the year when we should be shipping, is that the priority, or are you talking about is the priority? Hey, in the next five years, I don't want to redo this system. So we're looking for long term, bring your own device. Those are two different scenarios. At time of launch, your students are not going to have the. Primarily, they're not going to have oracast enabled devices.
Um, we need to wait for those to come to market. Timeline. The next phone you buy will be enabled. The next earbuds you buy will be enabled. Traditionally cycle those every two years. Right. Um, hearing aids, that's a much longer adoption rate. They exist on the market today. I've seen them. Um, my husband's hearing aids were $9,000. So I will not just be running out and replacing them. I'm going to wait till there's venues in the area where we can use them. Right. So
it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. Usually that's the turnover. Four to seven years for hearing aids. Right. So, um, that adoption will be faster in the US because our hearing aid market is highly driven by selling the newest, coolest thing. But worldwide, other national health systems give out hearing aids with t coils everywhere else in the world. So it's going to take a little longer there. So. And then once that happens, there's the
learning curve. You talked about, about how to connect. Right. When we deliver over audit Wi Fi. We know the app. It's our app. It's going to be the same for everyone. All they need to know is what network to join. Right? In this case, folks are going to have to learn their own product. Uh, right. They're going to have to say, this is how my particular phone and my particular earbuds connect. So one of the things that's still, you know, we got to see what gets brought
to market is, how do I choose a channel? Let's say I blow your minds today and you install. Every classroom on your campus has a solution like this. That's a lot of channels, right? >> Marc Cholewczynski: We ran into Wifi. >> Speaker F: Nobody wants to open an app and scroll through 100 channels. That's why we introduced the beacons for Wi Fi. So when I get into the room, it's just like infrared. I
just join the channel. Right? That was for higher ed. Uh, you know, this is going to run into the same situation where you need an assistant. So, yes, while there's chipsets available in phones and they just need to push that update, the truth is there needs to be. Their idea is long term, no app in between, but there has to be a intermediary to choose a channel on your hearing aid. That's probably going to be a hearing aid app, uh, for phones. Phones.
Um, you know, the point is that you're the phones that exist right now, like the Samsung, like we were showing at Infocom, it's a phone on the same platform as their hearing aids. Right? So they're going to talk to each other and the hearing. And the phone is going to say, these are the channels that are available, and the hearing aid is going to scan for those and connect. Or the earbud will scan for those and connect. There's still an assistant
somewhere in there. Uh, Sennheiser just released, uh, the, you know, it's just an update for their earbuds, but they had to release an app because guess what? There's no assistant on Apple yet. And they're going to do it. Apple will absolutely do this. They're not going to tell you or I. We will all find out from a stage. They'll be wearing a black turtleneck and making a big announcement. Right. That's how we're going to know what that
looks like and how it's going to interact with our system. We know it'll interact. I can't tell you what it's going to look like to open your Apple phone, but the idea is that just like Wi Fi, we walk into a space. Our phone says, hey, there's Wi Fi here. It'll be similar to that. You walk into a space. If your oracast is enabled, there's some channels here, would you like to listen? But in general, your earbud is going to be scanning. Your phone's gonna be telling you what channel to join.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: Uh, it's interesting because I think that's happening now. I don't think that's a far future thing because I think it's pretty normal. Like if anybody who's gotten a modern pair of earbuds that have like the hear through mode and the EQ and the tunings, I think we're already accustomed to kind of using that and we're the part where this becomes really interesting to me. I think that's more normal.
The students I see now, um, I would, if I go pick 910 random students, they're probably all going to come to my office with earbuds in their ears right now. Right now. And so I think this may not even be an ADA or accessibility thing. At the end of the day, this may just be for everybody. I think that's where I'm really interested about how this goes. >> Speaker F: It's going, right. I mean, imagine you're cruising through an airport and everybody struggles
to hear an airport. There is not one of us on this call who can hear gate audio, right? And uh, you know, cruising through airports, are already doing airports, already doing wifi. It will be prolific. We will all be there. We will all have a device to listen to gate audio accessibility is so much further. Thank you. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, I had to find that than. >> Speaker F: Just those who identify as not only, and also you're delivering multiple channels. You've got your
audio description, translation, I mean, you name it. You are building an accessible platform into your campuses and your demographic specifically is absolutely going to know how to use their technique. >> Justin Rexing: So in five or ten years, I. >> Speaker F: Have with houses of words. >> Jamie Rinehart: Oh yes, grandma wants to. >> Speaker F: Who's oracast? Right? That's going to take some work on everybody's part to make sure everyone knows how to
join. But like I said, earbuds and phones, that's short term. This, this time, uh, next year we'll all have it. >> Justin Rexing: So in, in five or ten years, everybody's walking around with headphones in their ears. Like, is this the death of amps? That's, that's now gonna put any more sound systems in? We're just all gonna have been making. >> Jamie Rinehart: This for like, it's going to be reduced now. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This is what we were going to.
>> Jamie Rinehart: I think there's going to be a lot of places where it's reduced, like. >> Justin Rexing: Walk into the movie. It's just visual. >> Speaker F: Like I see it monetized. Right. >> Chris Dechter: It's called a silent disco, Justin. Exactly. >> Speaker F: Whatever. Taylor Swift concert, I guess. I don't know. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um. >> Speaker F: Um, but you know, all these venues have the village outside of the venue,
professional tailgating. That's the other thing is there's high quality streams. Right. Assistive listening lends itself to mono. Right. And, um, there's access to high quality streams. Of course, people, the receivers need to be able to access that. That's the thing. That's the rub. You're going to set up your facility and, um, you're going to know what your range is. And we know what our range is with our receivers.
But when Amazon is flooded with really cheap earbuds with this access, the antenna, it's going to be different for everyone. They're just like it is for Bluetooth. Right. Their experience will vary, but mileage may vary. Sorry, what? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mileage may vary. >> Speaker F: So mileage may vary. So for our manufacturer. Yeah, that, that's, that can. It's really hard to tell you what our specs are at this point. They are actually literally in the
desert right now testing. So that's cool. >> Jamie Rinehart: Nice. >> Speaker F: Utah. We have a lot of desert. So we test a lot of audio there. >> Justin Rexing: But just seeing um, how far you can send that stuff. Like 7 miles. >> Jamie Rinehart: Let's go tell them to keep working the fly. Do you hear Mikey right now? >> Speaker F: He can send it very, very far with our transmitter, our
receivers. Um, but again, all that's being hashed out right now in real time with Bluetooth, with um, you know, they've got a list on their website where you can see products that have been approved. Um, plenty of products are out there that have not yet been approved. So that exists. Right. Um, they're working towards getting on that website as well. But you'll see in real time you can follow along. This is happening very, very fast. It's very, very exciting.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: That's awesome. Um, by chance, are you guys doing, is it two way or one way? One way. >> Justin Rexing: Right. That's the whole point is to make it low energy, reduce, you know, send it further. >> Larry Darling: Right? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep. >> Chris Dechter: Well, some of the early documentation referred to it as Bluetooth broadcast. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah. Multicast. Bluetooth. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep. So.
>> Speaker F: Yep. So there's support for multiple channels, there's support for stereo, there's support for multilingual. And we talked about private. Right. Because there are some privacy issues. I mean, someday, maybe it will be at every ticket counter, right? Places that it's hard to hear, but there needs to be a rolling encryption key for everybody you talk to at a bank, for example, offices. Yeah. So for our purposes of the conversation today, you can absolutely encrypt a
channel. And when you're using our receivers. Easy peasy. You just tell the receiver it has permission. Right. So for your boardrooms or, um, you know, the. If the professor is like, I really don't want this reaching everywhere. Um, yeah, our receivers will just. You can get a permission for it and they don't have to put in a password, but again, there will be an encryption key for everybody else using their own device. Can't put an encryption key in on your hearing aid. So that's where that
assistant comes in. And whether that works for your purposes or not, I mean, that is literally why we have the beacons for Wi Fi. We can. We've always been able to password protect that, but it's just, you know, you may not want to do that every time a class rolls over. So, yes. >> Justin Rexing: For that encryption, like, what does that look like for
management of that? So if you have encryption keys on your device for these classrooms and then you, every semester that changes over, would you see that encryption key staying the same, or are we talking, like, super secure? Somebody's gonna have to have a lot of. >> Speaker F: Overall, it's done within the software per channel, so you guys can determine that, um, it's not rolling. It's not like every classroom, you'd be able to quickly, you know,
change that password up. Um, but, yeah, it's up to you how often that happens and what that encryption key is. >> Justin Rexing: Hm. >> Speaker F: But again, with the receivers, you just designate the rooms they're allowed to listen to. Right. >> Chris Dechter: And there's actually similar to how we do it now, where we set. We set the
channel for the receiver, for the transmitter in the room. And if someone picks it up and walks down the hall with it and they say, hey, this doesn't work anymore, it's like, well, yeah, because it's set to that one back there, not where you are. So, I mean, that's. That's a general management thing. I don't see any way around that. I think the real advantageous here is that in theory, we don't have to worry as much about transmitters
and receivers. Well, we have transmitters, not receivers anymore, because that's what people are wearing in their ears already or they're bringing them with them or they're using the device they already have. Um, um, eventually, when you were to maybe down the road, we. That, that kind of management of, of devices is reduced to the point where it's just, hey, come in. And like I said, here's the channel in the room. >> Speaker F: I don't see Ada recalculating the requirements
anytime soon. They didn't do it for Wi Fi. They're not gonna, you know, there's just. They're not highly motivated to do that, but they are all over your campus for everything else. So. And I have seen. I have seen a Justice Department audit go down at university campuses, and it's. It's brutal. Right? >> Justin Rexing: What triggered that complaint in this particular case? >> Speaker F: It was, um. It was. They were
doing. They were facilitating courses for the Department of Justice. Right. And they were like, oh, take a look at this. But it was, for them, it was not just us. It was like bathroom doors, door width, curb height, a lot. Now, what I'll say is, yes, there is a really hefty fine associated, but it's not really a, like, we're just going to waltz on in and give you a $75,000 fine. It's like, we're going to work with you. And if you. And try and rectify this, if you don't
solve this, then we will double your fine next time. Like, m this campus, what they had been working on resolving all of their I AdA issues for like six years, right? So that's the point, is they want you to do your best and they want you to. I mean, it is a big deal. I'm not trying to say it's not a big deal. You will need receivers in your, in your wheelhouse somewhere. Um, but I have seen an example of that and happy to share more off air, but the, um. It can be brutal. So do your best
and. But the thing is, is what you can tell those who are helping you pay for this is, this is a technology that will actually get used. No one ever says how often is somebody using your handicap bathroom? But they absolutely ask that question when they are forced to buy hundreds of receivers that aren't getting used. So knowing that you're investing in technology that, well, right now you're going to need receivers. But overall, it's going to get used and can be used in a variety of ways.
Outside of assisted listening, it's a pretty. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Easy sell, I think just the whole concept here on this orchestra. It's been a while since I've. Or we have seen like a little something be like buzzy. This is a bit buzzy. It's very buzzy. Like, we hear a lot about AV over ip and, oh, okay. But in the, in the hallways and the water coolers of the AV world,
this, our cast is being talked about. I think this is. And to be excited about this kind of technology, I think it's kind of cool because it's not, it's different. It's, it's totally outside of what we're talking about every day. In the fact that I see posts on it, like on Reddit. Like, when's that? You think you're gonna see an 88 post on Reddit
about a, uh, technology like this? And we were talking about it after infracom, and we've seen it from etc. Posts like, people are actually excited about this, and I didn't really see it coming. And also it came out like, wow, this is kind of a big deal. >> Speaker F: Well, and what's something that's very, very new for us is Bluetooth doing our marketing. Right. They are out there hustling every day at consumer shows. So the end users that are hearing about it and hoping it solves a
challenge that they have, I mean, it's insane. We can't even keep up with it. And so this is the first time we've had other evangels. We have influencers. Like, they're not ours. They just want to influence this conversation so that when they go to the facility, they want to be accommodated at. It's what they want is there. So, I mean, it is. You're absolutely right. This is completely new for us, too. They have this much enthusiasm around a technology for assistive listening.
But that's the thing, is, it's not just assisted listening anymore. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And I think this excitement paired with kind of what we talked about in that first segment, like, that's a good cross section to actually get some action to make the world a better place. I think that's the timing couldn't have been better. I think it's just serendipitous. >> Speaker F: Yeah. Like I said, there's still things to be worked out. How many channels can
we really push into place before it's too crowded? You know, what kind of, what, what's the minimum range we're going to expect from bring your own device? Um, questions around security as that evolves. It's evolving. Um, it's pretty cool. Very cool. But, uh, that is why, because it's constantly evolving. That's why it's so important that we're all building from the same set of rules, right? So we can play in the same sandbox, which is also new for manufacturers.
>> Justin Rexing: Thinking ahead a little bit, are there any discussions about multi language support within channels, within this technology, I would assume? >> Speaker F: Yeah, we support multilingual. Mhm. >> Justin Rexing: I figured it would be a part of this as well. >> Speaker F: Oh yeah, that's a big part of everything we do now. Um, you'll see it in the Wi
Fi product we just launched last month. That is a huge, huge factor that's built into it now, where if you're streaming more than one language, rather than having lots of channels, they're able to just choose the language that they want and have it served up to them. So personalized audio and multilingual support, you'll see that continue to trend for sure. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's exciting.
>> Speaker F: Yeah. >> Chris Dechter: I think one of the things that I like the most about this is because it's part of the, comes from the Bluetooth special interest group. It is an open standard, it's a licensed standard through Bluetooth. But anybody doing Bluetooth, it's there and we're seeing it from multiple manufacturers. You're working on it. Listen, technologies, we're seeing it from your uh, from um. Uh. Shure and
Sennheiser have it in their devices. The chipsets that are in the newest phone support it, even though it's not lit up yet. But it's already in a lot of hardware that's in people's pockets already. So it's just a matter of like getting all those pieces in place. And then all of a sudden, probably over a period of relatively short period, about six months, we're going to just start seeing that rollout and show up everywhere. Uh, almost
out of note. Like where did this all come from? It's like, well, this has been worked on for the last several years, but it's all the, that all these different manufacturers and software developers and all these people working on it all at, you know, different aspects of it, but it's all going to come together and be just something that's available, which is going to be fantastic.
>> Speaker F: Because the hardest part there is fantastic. It's going to be a matter of people, people throw around the term, it's orcast capable, it's oracast enabled. People are going to have to do their homework to make sure that their devices are going to work together. Um, you know, um, because just because it exists, there still needs to be able to, in many, many cases it's capable, it still needs to stream to something that is, that can scan for the oracast
channels. Right. So do your homework. But you're right, it is coming. It will be a deluge. And one of the advantages of that is assistive listening is getting harder and harder to facilitate for facilities who are trying to simplify their systems. Right. You've got all in one bars and it is an afterthought. Oh, there's no audio out. Uh, I'm literally rigging up tabletop mics for people. Right. Because they've already bought some. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We've had that discussion.
>> Justin Rexing: Might have talked about that before. >> Chris Dechter: This was a big thing. And to their credit, bioamp in particular. But um, other manufacturers who make these that they don't have the analog out and then Biamp pivoted very quickly and they claimed for California requirements. And I pointed out, look, I'm not in California. >> Speaker F: A huge chunk of my weekend is taken up. Well it's because
California, it's California. We talked a little bit about how state rules California, special California extends their, the receiver requirements and ALS requirements into every meeting space. So corporate meeting spaces, all the tiny rooms where you're putting in all in one system. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We require it and that's what we're seeing here in Oregon. >> Speaker F: Courts went hybrid. They simplified all their systems and now no court interpreter can hear.
No one who's hard of hearing can hear. They've complicated so many things and basically it's like, it's, you know they're, they're saving money but then they have to trash their equipment because they can't meet the need. And so that is what we're trying to avoid. So um. Yeah, it's scary for any manufacturer who sells receivers to be like, yeah, we can play with and transmitters, we can play with all your stuff, it'll all work. But the point is we're trying to make these successive.
>> Jamie Rinehart: And that's what I was gonna say. Like what I like about this is that uh. It's because of where Bluetooth has come from and where it is today. Just regular Bluetooth. Right. Almost everything they have, they usually everything talks to everything. I mean it may be a pain in the ass to get them to sync but they eventually will probably do it. So we know manufacturers like to tweak things so that only their thing can talk to their thing. And even though it's the same
thing, it can't actually do the same. It's like. No, because it's being used by Google's and Apples and Microsoft's and all uh. Of a sudden of personal devices, consumer ish devices that we might actually get interoperability. There may be some tweaks right. For security and for encryption. And I get that, but man, how many times have we seen in our industry where it comes out and says
it's av over ip, it'll work everywhere. Unless, of course, you have anything that doesn't start with the letter x. >> Speaker F: Right? >> Jamie Rinehart: Like, come on. I was trying. >> Chris Dechter: Yep. >> Jamie Rinehart: I was trying to be diplomatic and not throw out the normal. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, to me, like, this is in the same way we saw, like Dante proliferating, take up. This feels like all that momentum, energy,
very similar, but in a very, very short time. And I think that's why I'm excited. Like, we kind of, Dante had this slow roll, but this feels like it's got like, hold my beer, watch what's going to happen now. Like, that's how this is to say. >> Jamie Rinehart: What I was trying to say. Yeah, exactly. >> Chris Dechter: Jamie, take all that back. >> Jamie Rinehart: Everything I said was convoluted and stupid. Just rewind it. >> Chris Dechter: I'm not.
Um, Mikey, real quick, um, so to the general topic of Ada, and I know you do a webinar, so I'll let you plug that. But where. What other resources can, can higher ed technology managers go to get more informed about this? Because it's going to fall on our shoulders at a certain point to have to figure some of this stuff out. What resources are out there? What should we be looking at?
>> Speaker F: Yeah, so, yes, thank you for the webinar plug. We do those almost monthly take breaks in the summer, but we're back at it. It is a, um, there's a recorded version on our website. I'm doing the live version this month. And it, um, is brand agnostic. It goes over what Ada ah says around assistive listening requirements, um, the technologies that we rely on to meet that. Pros and cons. There are pros and cons to all of
them. Um, it's worth one CTS renewal credit or CTSD, so if that helps anyone out there. Um, but we keep it brand agnostic so that we can have that, those renewal credits. But happy to answer any questions. It's very, very thorough. It also covers states like California specific. Theirs is enforced by the building code so they don't get around it. So we talk about that as well.
Um, that's a great place to start. There is a lot of nuance, they leave a lot of vagary, and I think it's, I don't know if it's by design or accidentally. They didn't think of some of these scenarios, but there's nuance. And, um, I'm happy to answer specific questions around your situation. There's also information there. There's a white paper on
our website. You can go to the department of justice and look up all of these references for yourself, and I would recommend looking them up in your state just to make sure. Um, but, uh, it's not going to be the fastest and best use of your time. I would just find the references on our website. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, use an AI assistant to summarize that for you. >> Speaker F: Would do that? Maybe. Or me. Just call me. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Awesome.
>> Chris Dechter: All right, well, I think we're all looking forward to our cast becoming much more commonly distributed, uh, to, uh, hopefully address some of our challenges with, uh, assisted listening. But just in general, just something that makes it that much more, you know, that much lower. What's the term for your lower bar of entry? For people to use this stuff and just have it easier. Easier. That's the word I want.
>> Justin Rexing: That's what we use in Kentucky is just simply easier. >> Chris Dechter: All right, well, uh, let's take a quick break and hear about some other more gooder stuff here. And then we're going to come back and talk about, uh, automated, um, transcripts and, uh, AI transcription summarization services and all that fun stuff and how well that plays into Ada. Yeah, that might do. >> Speaker H: You find yourself trying to connect to all your audio devices,
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lifetime supply of tangled cables. Say goodbye to that old, frustrating knot of cords forever with a brand new mass of twisted, intertwined and ratty cables. Don't let compatibility issues ruin your groove. Get your hands on the audio Bridgima widget today and let the music play on. >> Marc Cholewczynski: My favorite one. >> Chris Dechter: I have two of those bridgima widgets. They're great. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Those balls of ratted, twisted ratty cable.
Excellent, excellent. They will keep any door open. They will keep any door open. You can just wedge it right in there and it's perfect. >> Chris Dechter: I put them in people's bags when they're not looking, and then they have more cables. Final, final topic for today, um, AI, uh, transcription, automatic captions. These showed up all of a sudden, very quickly, everyone's doing it. Zoom teams, even within chrome, they'll do it now. It's like, hey, we can show you live,
uh, uh, captions. We can, uh, take the audio, will transcribe it, send you meeting notes. First of all, I don't trust that stuff. Secondly, even though they say in perfect environments, it's 97% accurate, I'm like, is it, though? And does that really meet the needs for Ada? Because I'm seeing that even internally on my campus, when someone says, hey, we need to do transcription, and someone says, well, it
already does it. I click this button and we're done. Like, that's not really meeting the requirements or the need. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It is an effort. It is not the appropriate amount of energy. Um, let me save you some headache. No, it doesn't meet. >> Chris Dechter: All right.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: It doesn't. So, uh, we talked about it because we do a lot of live events at our organization, and as part of our reading of this new, uh, guidance, it is very clear in there that automated services do not meet the criteria, which turns everything on its head, because it's not a cheap service to actually just spin out and get going places. And so
we have a live event. I have to take down an encoder, a decoder. We gotta have somebody standing by off site with a service contract ready to go all the stuff, get all our audio, our video and test in there, and it's like a day worth of nonsense for every large event that we go do. >> Chris Dechter: Is it nonsense, m though? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, no. Like, I have to take things out
of rack's movement. It's a lot of physical stuff that we're trying to figure out ways to streamline this, and we're very interested in a lot of the automated services. >> Justin Rexing: Um, but I've got your fix, Mark. Here's how you do it. >> Chris Dechter: And I've moved to Kentucky. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Hold on, let me get. >> Justin Rexing: Ready. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Go. >> Justin Rexing: You cancel your bin, talk very
slowly, right? And pronounce every word like this. And it does a 97% job ish. People don't talk like that. And they talk like Mark. And it's like. >> Jamie Rinehart: They talk like somebody from Kentucky. >> Justin Rexing: Exactly. And they make up words that. And, like, I don't know what that. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Word is, but in reality, this is the. These are the questions you're going to have to start asking. How are you going to go about making this
accommodation? Um, it's easy to say, well, I'm in Zoom, I'm in teams. I can use that and that. Sure, you can get away with some of that, but in a large venue, large auditorium, maybe you're not using Zoom, maybe you're not doing that. You're just doing a PowerPoint, or how are you going to accommodate this now? Right? And it changes. >> Chris Dechter: It's built into PowerPoint, too. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Sure. >> Chris Dechter: It's also terrible.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: I haven't seen a lot of good in this domain. I feel like there's a blind spot in industry right now to kind of really have a good utility to do this. Now, uh, we're starting to see some application that can make use of the paid for services. But again, it's software, it's running, it's an overlay, and it's just not clean yet, so. >> Speaker F: Well. And it's a broad topic all around because you've got your events right, you've got. You're trying to
accommodate a student. Everyone is fine with that being transcribed, but what it's, you know, when it's hopping into our meetings and just taking notes, and not everyone has agreed to everything they say, or maybe didn't say, but it misinterpreted being sent out after they meet. Right. We run into that. And businesses like ours, we have to put a ethics in place on how we responsibly use a service like this, which is awesome. I love not taking notes,
even if afterwards they're kind of nonsense. It's somewhere to start from. I mean, I. We recently was activated on one of our meetings and then just took over the meetings, every meeting. Meetings I didn't even respond yes to. It was taking notes from me, was saying, mikey's note taker is present in this meeting, right. And then emailing it out to the group. It was like, better not be planning my surprise party in this meeting, because now I know, right?
But, like, I pulled up a transcription while you guys were talking, where it was the first meeting it joined without my permission. It was like a Stephen King novel. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Where it's like, is there a future where nobody goes to meetings and it's just these transcription services and somebody just uploads a script and it's like a bunch of furbies just hanging out, taking notes? >> Justin Rexing: What's going on, are there other bots? And then telling us what happened.
And then we're like, cool. >> Speaker F: Here's my. >> Justin Rexing: That's our business work now. Like, that's what we do. >> Speaker F: This is what it did to me. Sent this out to everyone. Mikey expresses confusion and frustration about the note taker, questioning its effectiveness and ability to take accurate notes. And then it goes on and on to explain how I'm trying to turn it off, and I'm confused, and I don't know how to turn it off.
Uh, and then it says. Both speakers discuss the pros and cons with Mikey expressing frustration that he does not understand how to, um, what you're. >> Jamie Rinehart: Going to get next is. >> Justin Rexing: And you weren't even at the meeting, were you there? >> Speaker F: No. This one I had joined, and I was really saying the swears. >> Jamie Rinehart: We noticed you had a service which would you like to connect with our customer support base?
>> Speaker F: It's like you sound. You sound like you're on a cliff and ready to go. Is there anything we can help you? I mean, honestly, it. And then it started joining all the meetings. I actually declined. And then, I mean, so there's some things that we need to get. >> Chris Dechter: I can't be there, but this thing can. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Speaker F: Uh, but as far as your live event,
something is always going to be better than nothing. The best thing that happened to my husband in the pandemic was his work became remote, and now he no longer is limited at work by the fact he cannot hear in meetings. Right. AI note taker. Thank you. Thank you for it. Is it appropriate for live events where people have. It's not an appropriate. It's not going to meet the letter of the law. >> Chris Dechter: Right.
>> Speaker F: It's not going to give them an equivalent experience. It's getting better and better every year. Um, but I'm a huge fan still of hiring the little cart lady. That's really fast, because they are also trying, you know, they're putting concepts together for people to understand in real time. But AI, it has a place. It's not going away. It's a helper in a lot of cases. Um, but you're. You're absolutely right. It's nothing quite there yet for live events.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: It's not ready for prime time. And we struggle with that whole thing. We would love to reduce that cost for people who are doing events and making that accessible right now. And not even to mention that we're blending broadcast technologies and presentation technologies. And all the headache that goes around with that. Um, just say interlace versus progressive, if you know, it. You know it. You're welcome.
>> Speaker F: So here I also love, since we're not talking about, you know, reading the letter of the law, you stream it. You stream it to their own device that's Wi Fi or cast. Our devices now are capable of taking the audio it's bringing in and transcribing. Right. It's getting better and better as well. It's not great. None of it is great, but it's something for people to meet their individual need. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep. And have any of you all around here, they're in
schools. Have you had that weird conversation, like, we're going to turn on the AI companion and introduce. What does that mean? That there's a lot of risk involved with that. The moment you turn that on and you're gonna use that in the class and you have students joining, like, who owns that? Where's that going? Who's vetting that? What's your secret? Like, so some people just turn on some colleges, boom. It's at every meeting. You see it
down there, the students using it, getting their notes. But when you really get into the details of, like, what's going on there, should you be doing that to begin with? Can you answer that question? Should you be having this data about students and faculty going to the cloud? Yes or no? Like, do you stop and do that? Yes. It's neat, and you can get some functionality and get some capability out of it. But should you be doing that? Like, I don't know. And it's questions you have to ask.
>> Jamie Rinehart: The irony, uh, I've had with it the whole time is the folks who. The folks who have approved this and who are I'm seeing use it the most are probably in the meetings that should not be using this, and the ones that really didn't matter don't want any part of it. Like, they're like, no, turn that off. And I'm like, um, um. Our decision makers who don't want anything published are now sending this out and back. And to Mikey's example, sometimes it just does things, and I
just. It surprises me. I don't. I don't personally use it. Um, um. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. It's in my environment, and I'm trying to suss out how. How some of these questions that you guys are asking. M I'm in that mode. >> Chris Dechter: Within a classroom environment. The challenge is anybody can light it up, especially if it's a hybrid class. Um, yes. The one in Zoom warns people, or the one in team warns people. But students are savvy
students are clever. You can route the audio to an outboard application and it'll do it that way. And they've been doing that for several years until they started integrating it. So there's, people have been using this sort of transcription back end system to dump notes into a shared Google Doc, um, almost in real time. It's like ten or 12 seconds behind, but it's just dumping notes in there. I've seen that in use, in active use for two or three years. They didn't ask
anybody's permission to do that. Do they really need to? Because then you have that argument, well, they're in the room, so they're sharing as part of a public institute. It raises all these questions as far as where's this data going and how it's working and how accurate is said notes. If I wasn't able to meet class today and I go look at the notes, are those notes accurate? Is that good enough? And that's not really replacing the need for an assistive technology, if
someone needs that. But a lot of them are getting used that way. So I'm guess, yeah, something's better than nothing, but is it good enough? And I would argue no, it's not. >> Larry Darling: We've gotten several instances lately where tickets have came in from instructors where within Microsoft you can bring in a lot of these other extra AI tools and the instructor will just see this tool has requested to join the meeting.
And unless you're aware, hey, that says student guest or uh, that's a student who didn't log in through canvas correctly. So I'm just going to accept them so they can get in the meeting. Now. Who knows where that's going? >> Marc Cholewczynski: So yeah, what these machines think of us is just fascinating how funny their interpretation of our reality is. >> Speaker F: Well, I mean, to be fair, I was frustrated, so it did nail that.
But the fact that it's not just taking your words, it is inferring my meaning. >> Justin Rexing: Emotions and freak you out. >> Speaker F: I mean, it freaks me out. I got a public document, those words, it inferred it from what I said. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, I think look for this to join a meeting, unbeknownst to you, soon, probably on our call right now in the background, just transcribing as we go, jokes on them.
>> Jamie Rinehart: You're going to get an email soon that says yes, no, maybe. >> Chris Dechter: All right, well, uh, we'll close out. So um, mikey, thanks very much for joining us and talking through all our challenges and offering some potential solutions. And I think we're all excited to see, uh, what Lisa has coming up with, uh, our cast in particular, but, uh, Ada is such a wide topic, and there's so many different
things we have to be aware of. We didn't even talk about the physical challenges and things like that that you have to keep in mind, and that's an entire other discussion. But, um, please come back anytime and join us. But in the meantime, how can people reach out to you? Where can they find you? Dropping your plugs here, uh, for listening and other cool stuff you've got going. And we'll get links in the show notes for listening to these after the fact.
>> Speaker F: Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure to be here, and I'm just glad to be invited. Um, you can find us@listentech.com then there is a training page where you can sign up for these webinars and get more information. There's recorded content there, too. You can find me on LinkedIn. Mikey Schaefer at listen technologies. Um, I hope I hear from you guys. I hope I see some of you on the webinar. >> Chris Dechter: I bookmarked it.
>> Justin Rexing: I got it pulled up right here. >> Chris Dechter: Well, actually, I take it back. I can't be there. I'm going to put AI in it. >> Speaker F: I have seen people, like, when I do it live and, um, in person, I have literally seen people go ghost white when I tell them some of the rules, because it used to be that rooms over under 50 didn't
have to have anything, and that changed a long time ago. And I have some folks that are like, uh, I made all my rooms, 49 people to avoid this. I was like, wow, you've been missing. >> Jamie Rinehart: Out on one extra. We had 57 chairs, but it was only rated for 49. Don't worry about it. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah. >> Speaker F: You can literally see their face go in the middle of.
>> Marc Cholewczynski: If you want to be involved with that, sign up, because you can get some good insight and watch other people. >> Speaker F: Yeah. >> Justin Rexing: If you're listening to this and you think you're compliant, the answer is you're not. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, absolutely not compliant when I crush their feelings. >> Speaker F: We've got ways to make it easier for you guys. There's all kinds of rules and then ways to break the rules
and ways to ways. We. I will. >> Justin Rexing: There's loopholes. >> Speaker F: Do the right thing. >> Justin Rexing: Loopholes. Best effort, things like that. >> Jamie Rinehart: All right. All right. >> Chris Dechter: We're gonna roll out of here. We'll be back, uh, next week with some more nonsense. Uh, we stream live every Friday at 01:00 p.m. ish, my time. No, wait. So what's that three turn? Twelve Pacific. >> Larry Darling: That's.
>> Chris Dechter: I don't know. It's the only time I pay attention to my tone. >> Larry Darling: To your 2020 eastern. >> Chris Dechter: Eastern ish. Depending on how soon mark shows up. Exactly. >> Marc Cholewczynski: All right, thanks for joining. >> Speaker F: Thanks, guys. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Right. Get us out of here, Chris. >> Chris Dechter: It's rolling. It's rolling. >> Justin Rexing: Star White.
>> Chris Dechter: Where's my star white? So good, it ramps up. Give it a minute. Well, we've managed to ruin yet another episode of AV Super Friends off the rails. You can contact us with questions, topic ideas, or general@mailbagsuperfriends.com dot. If you complain loud enough, we might just invite you on the show. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Nice work, everyone. >> Chris Dechter: Sharp broadcasts, really good. Everyone on the floor as well. Really a lot of hustle. I liked it.
The opinions expressed by the AV super friends are solely those of the individuals and do not represent their respective institutions, organizations, companies, or clients.