AV SuperFriends: Off the Rails - Gross Overdoing

>> Chris Dechter: This is AV Superriend off the Rails, an almost regularly scheduled open discussion on audio and video in higher education. We'll sound off about our most brilliant ideas, our dumbest mistakes, and everything in between. And because this conversation will almost certainly go off the rails at some point, we will end up covering just about everything else. And now, the AV Super Friends

fourth February 21, 2025. Its the best sounding podcast in higher ed. This is the AV SuperFri Friends off the Rails episode has 104 good gravy. Broadcasting live from coast to coast and everywhere in between. Transmitting across time zones faster than crummy hotel Wi fi From the back of the rack to the front of the house. Im Chris Decctor. Pushing buttons, flipping switches, turning knobs. And youre tuned in for another Friday afternoon podcast adventure. Get through that one yet.

But first, let's say hello to today's panel of August AV Super Friends with this one. >> Justin Rexing: Oh, uh, man, my notes just crashed. >> Chris Dechter: Well, you've got like 18 seconds. So first let's welcome a director of Corporate Impact from Kansas City, Jamie Reinhard. >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, it's impactful today. >> Chris Dechter: Better that than impacted. Also joined by a forward integration engineer from Corvallis, Orego. Say hello to Mark Kozinski.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Lean into this real form. We're going forward with all of our builds now on. >> Chris Dechter: We're not looking back forward, never backwards. Our networks only go forward. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We have one way networks, unidirectional. >> Chris Dechter: Also joined by a senior markets manager from Greensboro, North Carolina, Mr. Larry Darling. >> Larry Darling: So I'm managing old grocery stores now.

>> Chris Dechter: Sure. Only for seniors. Seniors. >> Jamie Rinehart: So you're responsible for the bangin and soundtrack at the grocery store. >> Justin Rexing: Uh, like this one. >> Chris Dechter: Like, like this one. Very similar one. You me to stop. Hold on, I got this right now. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It'S very light. >> Chris Dechter: Hold on. Give me a second. >> Justin Rexing: I feel like I'm walking by some milk.

>> Chris Dechter: Would you like to go shopping in 1979? >> Justin Rexing: Because if so, kind of I do. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, let's see. >> Justin Rexing: Student was better back in back then. >> Chris Dechter: Now we're all out of sorts here. So, uh, go back to this not. And finally, let's welcome our vice president for human factors from Bowling Green, Kentucky, Mr. Justin Rexy.

>> Justin Rexing: O me. Yeah. We are re breaking news. We're going to factor in humans. >> Chris Dechter: Okay. >> Jamie Rinehart: There's no AI there. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We'renn we're actually gonna listen to what these humans say they need and we'ren toa listen and give them what they want for once. >> Justin Rexing: For once. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Breaking for once. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: All right, well, good.

>> Chris Dechter: So on today's show we're going to discuss prioritizing capabilities of our learning spaces. And mar has an exercise which will all cost you money. So ready? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Better get out at least $100. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, let's see. And we're going to talk about. What are we going talk about here? Oh, we'ren talking about why we have challenges with putting PCs on the same network as our AV gear. And sometimes that's fine and sometimes it's not. And

a possible solution to that too, coming up. Uh, but first some housekeeping because we're going to do this every time. So first of all, if you're listening to this as recorded MP3, please know that we do stream live on Fridays at about 3:30 Eastern, 12:30 Pacific. Um, you can join us live on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. And we can take your calls during some of those shows, which I do have that running today.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So somebody please call. What's the number? Put the number up. >> Justin Rexing: We had a jingle. I heard the. >> Chris Dechter: I got the jingle and there's a slate and all sorts of stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm doing things. Have your cell phone ready, Jamie. Find that little bandner cell phone, then go. >> Chris Dechter: But they can't call in now anyway, so it doesn't matter.

>> Justin Rexing: Yeah, we'll get nobody's nobod's all. >> Chris Dechter: Don't put that up. >> Jamie Rinehart: All right, not this one. >> Chris Dechter: That's the one. Yes. Um, let's see if you can't join us live. We still want you to connect with us on the socials, follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, BlueKY, etc. And please don't forget to

spread the word. Uh, please share this podcast with your friends, colleagues, enemies, coworkers, perfect strangers, anyone who else who might enjoy it. So when you are grocery shopping in 1979 and listening to that muak put extra stuff in their cart and then tell them about this podcast from the future so they subscribe to that. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That'd be check out wins. >> Jamie Rinehart: The best's what my daughter does.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: She just throws shit and random people's carts. >> Chris Dechter: Random people's carts. >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, and mine. Yes, o both she own cart too. >> Chris Dechter: If you do wanna support the show, please consider donating uh, your contributions, uh, help us keep bringing you the honest content that you love. Um, you can find the donation link

in this show, notes of this episode or on our website. We do want to hear from you, so please reach out on uh, uh, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. Or blue sky or on uh, just vi old fashioned email which I get a lot from actually. So mailbagavuperfends.com do. Um, and finally, when you're listening to us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, etc. Wherever you're listening to us, please go in and leave a rating and a review. Uh, your feedback helps us grow and reach more listeners,

even if that review is negative. Actually, it's kind of weird. It does, um, anything is good bit. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's all good. Just put it all on there. >> Chris Dechter: All right, so with all that said, thanks for your support, and we couldn't do this without you. And now we're gonna take a commercial break because we're messing with our format here a little bit

for a reason we'll talk about in a few weeks. But, uh, Jamie's here to tell you why it's important you write into us. He wasn't prepared for this. >> Jamie Rinehart: As many of you know, the Super Friends have always been better received when we have more input from you. So heres your chance. Send us a note at mailbag@absuperfriends.com

and get involved with the show. Were looking for some topics to discuss, some fellow nerds to talk to or just general AV awesomeness to brag about, but remember, well, probably steal your ideas. And I suppose wed take some criticism, but that wouldn't be very nice. Anyway, drop us a note at mailbag@absuperfriend.com and find out how quickly we ask you to join this nonsense. >> Justin Rexing: I feel like we did a commercial break really early.

>> Chris Dechter: We did do it, and I just said why? >> Marc Cholewczynski: So play along, Justin. You'll get there. Just really go long for the show. >> Chris Dechter: Too early. >> Larry Darling: You slept at all those meetings. Didn't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: All right. Crashed, Larry. He didn't ne. >> Justin Rexing: My notes. >> Jamie Rinehart: Crashed. >> Justin Rexing: I've been busy. I got things happening over here.

>> Chris Dechter: Things. >> Justin Rexing: There's. There's stuff happening, too. >> Chris Dechter: And Justin, the irony is right now is gonna be the, uh, little jingle we play that has you singing along. So now it's time for the news. Yeah, Justin, so exciting news. All right, so today's news comes from the, um, Zoom marketing department. Yeah. Comes from. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I literally comes from Mark's email mailbox. >> Chris Dechter: Um, and it's.

>> Justin Rexing: Get it. I didn't get it. >> Chris Dechter: None of us got this. So this is the secret. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Maybe it's bullshit. I don't even know. It's just spam. It could be. >> Justin Rexing: Mark got teams rooms. I have zoom rooms. Zoom sent something. Uh, where is it at? I don't know. >> Chris Dechter: So, um, I did. I dropped the PDF into, uh, the discord for everyone to see. That one. But it does

say uh. Basically uh, it's a form letter from Zoom that says dear valued customer starting March 2025. Which is like in seven days hours from now. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah yah. Um, if you are this may have happened to you already by the time. >> Chris Dechter: You'Re listening this I don ye be. >> Justin Rexing: Listening to this not knowing if you.

>> Chris Dechter: Have Zoom rooms hold onto your butts because it says starting March 2025 select Zoom certified hardware devices will enter their official old and busted phase and begins Zoom's new end of life support period. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So they'on life support from here on out. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, it says if you need uh immediate assistance please contact your vendor to purchase new gear. Stop calling us.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean was verbatim read. You could have at least read it. >> Chris Dechter: And then there are two pages of listing of stuff that is going to be on the old and busted list with comment lots of comments like no plans to update. So. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Mhm. Good luck. >> Chris Dechter: That's cool. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And I mean there's. There's some Crestron, there's some Neat products. >> Chris Dechter: Some Crestron D10 Extron HP

Poly neat. Yay Link. >> Larry Darling: Talking old products either? >> Marc Cholewczynski: No, there's some fairly new ish stuff in that. I mean shit, I may have ordered someed somewhere. Yeah'reed um, thanks. I mean I guess they're doing their part to stimulate the economy. I don't know. >> Justin Rexing: This is the whole reason why we why I don't like teams and Zoom rooms is because this is the reason management of that. Well, it's the main

reason. Um, at any point, at any time your whole day could be ruined by teams and Z. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It already is. >> Justin Rexing: Well I mean if you're not more so than Norl like, like Monday could be a terrible day for you. Mark. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Tell something not be. >> Chris Dechter: It may not be. >> Justin Rexing: It may be a great day. And it you know. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So is that why we're in this to begin with? Like you never

know what's gonna happen. This isn't further proof of that. >> Justin Rexing: This isn't just the. This is just the tip of the spear here. So uh, behind that isip I by the way, we're not supporting this firmware on your USB cameras. And the only way to update them is pull them off the wall and hook them to a laptop. And so yeah, that didn't have a message. There was no warning. It just

happened across our campus. So we had to go around and fix all of our Zoom rooms with a laptop and sneakers. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So uh, there's part of me that believes that this is just Zoom putting these manufacturers on blast. Like hey, you didn't pay your certification check or it didn't clear or it may have bouncedd or maybe you're waiting for your tax deduction to come to renew your software or whatever it is. >> Justin Rexing: I think it's opposite.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I think it's not end of life, it's end of certification. >> Chris Dechter: Right. >> Justin Rexing: I think in my opinion that these companies that you see here D10HP Poly. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Neat like hey, that's everybody from the commercial AV Reddit.

>> Justin Rexing: Yeah, we want toa sell more gear. So let's tell Zoom to send this out and then everybody's gonna have to buy our new stuff because Zoom's gonna disable it and then we're releasing some new stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And so now you think it's driving the market here. >> Justin Rexing: One to two year replacement cycle now for Zoom and team rooms, I guess.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm getting them and run the 3. >> Justin Rexing: Year replacement cycle plus plus your licensing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: End of talk certification conspiracy theories. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, it does define end of certification here. The M date the device will no longer hold Zoom certification. On this date the

end of life support begins. Will it keep working? But I think what they're saying is it may work for a bit longer, but at some point it's going to. >> Justin Rexing: Quit M. Maybe the next day. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, maybe not. There's a big part of this is okay, fine. They want to keep things updated. They have security patches and things. And if you look through the notes on and the reasoning why is because well,

Androids out of date. Android out of date. Android out of date. Androids out of date. >> Justin Rexing: That's another show topic. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Justin Rexing: Is don't buy Android stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's your pro tip of the day. If it has Android on it, it's probably not pro. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's not long term.

>> Chris Dechter: Um, no, no, no. Jamie, look at it. Silver lining. If it has embedded Android, that means it comes with an already pre included from the factory replacement date. That's true's unfunded wr. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You know, not wrong. >> Jamie Rinehart: You can look up every Android model and say oh it's gonna expire in 2028. I mean it tells you right there. It's like Chrome, uh, if you buy Chromebooks and things it tells

you within the OS. Yeah. This is no longer supported after 2027. >> Marc Cholewczynski: O perfect engineered obsolescence. I love it. >> Chris Dechter: That's in the future. >> Jamie Rinehart: This is one of the things that really bothers me about the room's um, trends is that the certification process in order to make sure quot make sure it works. Um, they have the certification. We all know it's money in the back end. But at any given time right where it just quits.

>> Justin Rexing: Money right in your back end. >> Jamie Rinehart: Chris's Somebody takes the money out of your back end. Um, you know it what I heard the first time. Back dor residuals, backoor residuals. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, we find our stuff only through the side hatch. >> Jamie Rinehart: It has to be uh, a liquefied uh, finance system. >> Chris Dechter: Liquefied backdoor. What? >> Jamie Rinehart: Wow. All right, we got

there. I don't like it that that somebody else's decision can, can overhaul your budget, your finances, your, your inventory. Any given time. If you bought 150 of these, of these Polyys systems and you're like we're cruising. Oh, in two years I've replace every single one of those or change my entire structure and you had nothing to do with it. They may still be quote good products, working products that just can't do what.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You, you perceive them as working up until the software says they do not. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah. And you're just beholden upon somebody, some corporate contract, some lawyer somewhere, some money exchanging hands and you can't do anything about it. You're just stuck. And that bothers me a lot that Microsoft now changes is my lifeycle. Decision maker is Microsoft. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This one's Android. But yes, this is okay.

>> Chris Dechter: But your point is valid. >> Jamie Rinehart: I get you or Zoom. They or Google. Somebody else says nope, your life cycle is only 2 1/2 years. O but I need 7. Tough. >> Chris Dechter: How about 3? >> Larry Darling: If you haven't listened to the march on topic yet, ignore this comment. But you all were talking about not replacing the entire room anyway, only replacing bits and pieces. So doesn't this kind of fit that.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Model all at once? >> Justin Rexing: Like 500 teams rooms. 500 zoom rooms like that would. That would be crap. That would suck. >> Larry Darling: It would be crap. I'm not saying it's a good model. I didn't agree with it then either. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Not saying it's the model. I'm m just saying it's a model all at once. >> Jamie Rinehart: But if, if you're okay. So it kind

of does. But I'm not relying on some of these room systems with that kind of budgetary and replacement cycle in mind. Right. I want to be able to replace any endpoint whenever I want because it died, not because Microsoft decided not to certify it. >> Justin Rexing: The thing still works. Exactly. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Jamie d. Works almost 3 years of still service coming out of there is based on the literature.

>> Chris Dechter: Yeah. They'll give you security updates but you're not going to get the newest features. You're not going to get, you know, all the Buz Buzzw wory stuff. And I think part of this is what they're looking at here is they probably have some big announcement coming up where they're overhauling Zoom's underlying, you know, Codex structure or something, and the

older hardware simply won't support it. Which is fine if they give you an appropriate Runway of like, hey, over the next two years, this one's not going to be Zoom Zoom plus certified, but it'll still work for Zoom. And then two years from now they roll. I think there's a better way for them to do this rather than just like, here's a four page list of stuff. If you're on here, plan ahead is. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Off the 32 bit because they got to make room for Al. That's all it is.

>> Jamie Rinehart: And by the way, one of five of us actually got this and we're all clients of this company. Mmm. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Uh-huh. >> Justin Rexing: We have Zoom rooms and I, I'm doing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You're welcome everybody. Soab. You're. You have it. You do. I think you do need to have a Zoom admin account to. To have received this, which I do. >> Chris Dechter: So not anymore. Justin, they fix that glitch.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Enough bad mouthing and they took you off that list. So I don't um. Does it just not feel more like PC World? >> Jamie Rinehart: A little bit? Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean that's kind of. It has shades of PC replacement cycle to me in here and that's kind of what everything is anymore. So I'm not surprised.

>> Jamie Rinehart: No, not surprised. We kind of understand some of the reasonings for like Chris said, it's updates its new features, it's, it's AI whatever they're going to put in underneath. But yeah, but it's just obnoxious that you don't just stuck. >> Justin Rexing: You have one PC in a room, sometimes two if you're know, social Pat seven, uh, there's, there's multiple AV things in a room.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So you can't just, uh, let's not go making this division again. >> Justin Rexing: We can't just keep replacing 10 things to one PC every two years because Zoom said so. >> Marc Cholewczynski: If I had more time, I would have loved to go through, put this list, feed it into our AI extruder and find out when these products actually released in their original releases to find out how much life they actually would have had because that would have been a

relevant piece of data to this conversation. Right. And so maybe these all. I don't know. >> Justin Rexing: Maybe. >> Jamie Rinehart: And so I, I'm Gonna bet there. >> Larry Darling: Three yeah, I'd say the end of 20. >> Jamie Rinehart: 20. 20. Early 2021. I'm gonna bet that if, if we were to put a lunch bed on this, then, uh, I would be awashh with Justin when he supports the block building. I'd just be washed out.

>> Justin Rexing: But one of the thing ain't happen. >> Chris Dechter: Even if these things are, you know, say five years old. And so you're like, yeah, I got five years out of it. That'you know, that's less than I would have liked, but that's fine. >> Justin Rexing: Um, but still. >> Chris Dechter: But even if that's the case, some of these worst will and still are on sale right now, so. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Larry Darling: Yeah.

>> Justin Rexing: But if you have 500 of these things to replace, that's a lot of labor. That's a lot of work. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Think how much job security a notification. >> Chris Dechter: Well, it's not. They're not. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You got three yearsari. It's not the first time we've had it. We had the big touch panel scale a couple years ago. Had to go through and replace all the touch panels. So that

happened. So this is the next version of that. And we will see more of it, I think, moving forward. Like, this is the new normal for these software reliant hardware pieces. >> Justin Rexing: Another reason to get away from Zoom and teams rooms. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm, um, going all in, doubling down. >> Chris Dechter: I'm only webex rooms, Justin. Only webex rooms. >> Justin Rexing: With Cisco, WebEx is fine. They don't really update anything anyway, so.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Just figured out to it may work, so we're goingna be running it. >> Jamie Rinehart: What was that? >> Justin Rexing: Was that too low? >> Larry Darling: That was kind of low, yeah. >> Chris Dechter: Not untrue. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We can get lower than that, trust me. >> Chris Dechter: Okay, well, let's take a quick break. Uh, when

we come back, we're gonna talk about, uh. What are we talking about here? Oh, when we come back, we. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We talk about get your money out. >> Chris Dechter: Mark's got a hundred bucks. And everyone give Mark a hundred dollars. And then I'm gonna give tell you more. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The other people. Yeah, and it's not some sort of pyramid scheme here. Um, it'a funnel plan. Everybody get on board. Let's go.

>> Chris Dechter: Who is in my downline? That's what I need to know. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, you guys are gon toa figure that out downline. >> Chris Dechter: Unfortunately, I think I am. So. All right, we'll take a quick break, come back, talk about that. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Hey, you. Yeah, you with the weird AV issues that need fixing. Listen up,

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>> Justin Rexing: I still don't know why there's police. >> Chris Dechter: Sirens but m the guy's on the street. Justin, it's theater of the mind. >> Larry Darling: Uh, I always police sirens on on the street. >> Jamie Rinehart: Especially my small town. >> Larry Darling: Yes, same. >> Chris Dechter: So uh, Mark's got hundred. No wait, we all. We all owe Mark $100 buks. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, Mark's got hundred bucks.

>> Chris Dechter: Mark's got a hundred bucks. Mark, explain what's going on here about this. Using this methodology of determining what value we put on different capabilities of our learning spaces. Uh, given $100 limit here. Oh, and Mark apparently just blew up so he can't share stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think I'm kind of coming back so I don't know. >> Chris Dechter: There you go. >> Jamie Rinehart: We'll see. >> Chris Dechter: See what?

>> Justin Rexing: Running on it team'room right now. >> Chris Dechter: Yes, your team'room is out of date. >> Marc Cholewczynski: My computer is one of. I'm just using the Crestron touch panel as my computer and unfortunately it's Zoom room. >> Chris Dechter: Are you using the Zoom m compute as your computer? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. I'm not going to dare share anything in this because it's going to do collapse my entire house of cards.

>> Chris Dechter: Do you want me to share this document or not? Is this a valid. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We can talk about it. Uh, we'll talk if you want to talk about the concept of this exercise came from the old um, architectural exercise we do in spaces or when you're designing buildings doing the old $100 tre. >> Chris Dechter: You the term is sureet. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Fine, if you want to use correct terminology, go ahead.

>> Chris Dechter: I don't have a ponytail so I can't actually use that term legally. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Sure. And with all the talk about standards and what we're doing and how much we're spending on this and that and this. It maybe kind of harken back to are we actually spending the right percentage our budgets on the capabilities that we're looking for in a classroom? And so I amassed a, uh, think tank of

individuals to craft this document. There wasn't nobody in this damn room, by the way, useful peoples, what you're saying. And so I said, well, what are the common capabilities we see in a teaching and learning environment? They're often delivered by technology. Because we could say, we don't need any of this stuff. I get it. I know you because I don't need anything. I could just teach from the front of the room, Larry, and be totally successful with my Activ

of learning hot dogs and hamburgers class. Uh, and you're not wrong. You are not wrong. And so I amass this list. I want to read through this list. And then the exercise is, can we agree on the top 10 from this list of whatever the hell you guys added and added to it, roughly 20 and say, okay, if that's our 100% out of these tens, could we categorize them correctly and spend that hundred dollars, 100 accordingly on the top 10? How will we break down that hundred? $100, uh,

by percentage. And then we will not have time, I guarantee today to go through that all. Um, but that would then roughly say that's how we value the capability. Does it align with what we spend in a normal classroom, whatever your normal classroom may be? I do not know. I don't know. You all have to answer that to yourselves. But to me, the heart of the conversation is, do we even agree on the top 10 technological enabled capabilities in a teaching learning space? Yes or no?

>> Justin Rexing: I doubt it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I probably don't. And so proably that was the basis of throwing this whole thing off rails. Shared this document out. Let's dive in. What do you think? So these are not in any specific order at all. Um, they are just as tabulated by Al and given to us because Al has all the juicy insights to what we're doing. This is what he said. So can we even agree one large high definition display in a space, do we need

that just. No. >> Larry Darling: Define high definition high resolution screens from. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Projectors for clear visualization of content, ensuring all students can see detailed images and videos. >> Justin Rexing: Can we buy properly s resolution screen today? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Don't know. I don'know. Do we need a screen, yes or no and disay some sor. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, display some sort?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes, we do need that okay, good. >> Justin Rexing: Most. Most of the time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not saying. I did not say can you teach in this room without it. I'm saying technology enabled spaces. Do we agree we need a screen? Yes or no? >> Jamie Rinehart: Mhm. >> Chris Dechter: Sure. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You're wrestling with that so bad for. >> Justin Rexing: One gud like argue with me about.

>> Larry Darling: No, we don't'ving that on speakers. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This next one's coming few Justin, you gave it to wait. Sound audio and acoustic performance High quality audio systems and acoustic treatments to ensure speech intelligibility and immersive audio experience. Microphones for students. Whatever. Uh, not just remote but voice lift as well. Maybe separate category distributed audio More importantly for program audio. So do we need

a sound system in a room? Yes, technologically enabled classroom. >> Justin Rexing: So we have to remember that the things that happen on my campus aren't always my decisions. So I agree. Sound systems are important. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. Do you not have to speak for wku? I would ask you to notes for legal reason. >> Justin Rexing: I agree. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay.

So. So we're going toa keep those top two for now Computing capabilities with high speed Internet. So install computer with network. >> Larry Darling: Yes. >> Justin Rexing: Yeahus. What are you gonna. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So people are gonna say J byod. >> Jamie Rinehart: I'm all in with having uh. With having network connections and a PC of some sort. When you said it install

a computer. They need a device access that in orders for them to present to the display that's available. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's so we can discuss how we go about doing that maybe whether it. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uyot or included whatever. But there needs to be something like that with Internet capabilities. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. Larry, you agree? Disagree.

>> Justin Rexing: Larry's saying no. >> Larry Darling: Well, I agree with everything he said except for it needs to be installed too. But that's. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, so we're gonna have some capability. >> Chris Dechter: For comp iPad with wif fi y could whatever. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. Okay. We value the capability. Right. Okay. What about

lecture capture? Do we need lecture capture system to a lot recording and streaming or streaming of lectures allowing students to review sessions after now that streaming piece I'm willing to omit from this though we don't have to so this is like do we need systems technology systems that cameras, microphones something to record with in a don'modern PA huge. >> Jamie Rinehart: I mean I don't think it's okay. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This is part of the exercise.

>> Justin Rexing: We like it nice to have bucket so in this. >> Chris Dechter: This type of exercise I'WANT to point out what if you have the wrinkle in the previous one was do we want some sort of compute in there? Whether that's BYOD or installed um, installed being the correct answer. If you do that, though, how does it affect if now say lecture capture comes with that? Because we learning. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I. That's part of the exercise when you get to the end. Right.

You said, I want these capabilities to have for me somewhere. Can you combine some of these now and pool your budgets? Since we've all given this money around, can you team up with the people under you to take their hundred dollars and make this, uh, a reality? I don't know. We'll find out. >> Chris Dechter: We should do this again in a couple months. But, like, get one of those boards where we can move the cards around and stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. Okay. All right.

>> Chris Dechter: So leureureure lecture capture. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You like lecture capture? Okay, Kristen, you're taking notes. Good. >> Justin Rexing: Somewhere I need to take notes. >> Chris Dechter: Justin is not taking. Not copious notes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Jesus. >> Justin Rexing: I thought we had otter open. Did we not? >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's al. Um, okay. Is listening

ADA compliance. When I say ada, this includes like adjustable deks, desks, hearing loops, screen readers. Maybe not all of them, but something we're going to spend in the name of ada. Yes. >> Chris Dechter: Not hearing loops. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Larry Darling: Not hearing lo. >> Justin Rexing: You have make sou acceptable accommodations. >> Chris Dechter: You have to make the ability to add an accommodation.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. So we're gonna. How like that Define that as a capability. At least we're gonna acknowledge that. And I hope you all come to the conclusion that, yes. Talk to legal. >> Chris Dechter: We, yes, we all strive to have systems that support captioning systems that support, uh, audio reinforcement direct into students ear holes. So, yes, that is definitely something. I think that's high on the list.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Or on the list magnification number six that I have here. I'm thinking dot cameras and imag type thing. Some level of something there. Is that a need to necessarily. >> Jamie Rinehart: You can get around that anymore? >> Justin Rexing: No, you can get around that with a phone and computer. So. >> Chris Dechter: But Justin, you're still doing it. >> Larry Darling: But it doesn't have to be there.

>> Justin Rexing: I'm just saying that, like, are we focused on the device? Are we focused on the exercise? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is. Would you want to have it as one of your top 10 capabilities in teach Lear? >> Chris Dechter: But that's the exercise. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I want to acknowledge this as a need some way. We have to. There's analog stuff that needs to get into my teaching and learning environment.

>> Justin Rexing: What if that teacher doesn't haveog stuff? Maybe that teacher scanned in all his frog slides before class and put him on the computer and PowerPoint. No big deal. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Hey, yes. You can mitigate that through, uh, an effective teaching and learning group on your campus to do all that. So I, I, I want to have it. I want to have it. >> Justin Rexing: There want. >> Chris Dechter: Yes. I would say this is, this is the first one.

We're at number six here. The first one on the list that I am torn on because by default, I do this everywhere. Um, but it is one of those things where if I have to start thinking about streamlining further, this is the first thing to go. >> Larry Darling: Exactly. >> Jamie Rinehart: Is not enough. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, well, that's interesting. Okay, so this one.

>> Chris Dechter: That said, unlike I think probably everyone else on this call, I'm m in most of my standard rooms now, if the space allows for it, because it is an infrastructure concern, I'm installing two IMAG devices, the doc cam and the markerbo board cam. Whoa. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Chris Dechter: Across the board. >> Justin Rexing: Nice to have but not needed.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: In a modern teaching and learning facility, would we expect to have this capability? Yes or no? >> Justin Rexing: We're throwing a lot around, a lot of different definitions here. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Expect I want it. I want this one. And if it gets kicked off the island when we get there, so be it. It's all about the percentage that we're spending. Remember, Keep that go in mind. Okay. >> Justin Rexing: I mean, yeah. I mean, it's.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You said your piece. You're done. Okay. >> Chris Dechter: I heard him, and I quote. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean, yeah, remote m teaching hybrid teaching capabilities. Larry, I'm not dying on a hill of hot dogs, hamburgers here. Talking cameras and microphones for, like, getting outbound from space. >> Justin Rexing: Okay, don't need it. >> Chris Dechter: Only high flex. No hybrid. Larry's so angry.

>> Larry Darling: No, like, it's a nice to have, but I would rather outfit rooms that do it well than have it mandated. It has to be everywhere. >> Chris Dechter: Good point. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think that's a really important piece because if it's, like, on the line of, like, number 11 or number 10, you may not have enough money left over to do this the right way. So don't just buy a document camera and flip it around.

>> Chris Dechter: Aim it at somebody. Yeah, yeah, but, uh, you guys already said you're not buying duck. Kim, I'm the only one buyinging dcim so I can aim it at people. >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, just stand really close to the whiteboard and stare into it. >> Chris Dechter: Yep. Look at that camera above the whiteboard. It's great. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So this is is a nice to have, but not a need to have. Maybe if can be afforded

correctly, you'd want to do it. But to afford it correctly, it means it makes nothing else. >> Chris Dechter: Larry's reasoning on this. Yes, I think this is a need to have, but only with a caveat that only if you do it right. Putting uh, a dollar webcam on your teaching lecture and aiming it at the students is not doing it right. >> Justin Rexing: Hmm. >> Jamie Rinehart: What if students. Okay, no. >> Chris Dechter: Or worse.

>> Jamie Rinehart: I don't think it, it's not a need. In most, I'm thinking majority of modern day course rooms it is not a need. It is a ah, want and in it specific targeted spaces. >> Chris Dechter: So let me ask, we may have. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just now explained why the experience sucks for everybody. >> Justin Rexing: A lot of this has a lot to do with how your university is implementing policies around

education. You're not for instance like Mark may have to put a camera in every classroom where I get yelled at when I do. >> Chris Dechter: Right. >> Justin Rexing: You know, so it just depends on my policies. >> Jamie Rinehart: I, I'm just, you know, in a broad. Yeah. In broad definitions. What, what's in a broad definition of a classroom? What is a need and what is a want or ah, a would like or a spec.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I really really want this, but I really really want it correctly. >> Chris Dechter: So let, let me raise this too because I'm updating some rooms this summer that are um. The rooms themselves are eight or nine years old but they got the magical Covid monies and they got cameras and microphones. But these spaces are not ideal remote hybrid, whatever teaching spaces. It is not

a good experience for people in those rooms. So I'm removing cameras and mics from these rooms and not putting them back. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, I'm doing that same thing. But I'm actually just putting a webcam on the monitor for the instructor. That's not correct. It's not. But now they have something. So when I don't get yelled at. >> Justin Rexing: They'Re going toa turn it around and go oh look cust audience.

>> Larry Darling: No, they don't do that. If they want to do a full class thing there on campus that do that. >> Justin Rexing: You can't watch everybody. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So that one's interesting. We'll see if we can afford that. Sneaking suspicion that we may not be able to. Um, now this next one, if we can see forward in the next list. I want to couch what we'renna say here. Collaboration technologies.

I don't want to say what you have highlighted, Chris. And I want to say like digital collaboration tools, group workstations to occur in student interactive. I want to say this as like active learning pod style. This may be more of a furniture play than um, what you had highlighted. Because I want to. >> Chris Dechter: I was crossing that up. Because you have it down below. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, exactly. So I'm not gonna put that in there.

>> Larry Darling: If it's active learning, it's exactly the same answer for me as the last one. If you're going to do it correctly, it's worthwhile in certain rooms. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Chris Dechter: Um, but Larry, I really want to half ass this. >> Larry Darling: By all means. I got squeeze it down to 18s square feet per student and make it work. >> Chris Dechter: I've got, I got a four foot diameter table and

I'm gon toa put six people around it. So there's 48 people in a room and I'm gonna put three projectors in that room. That is now active learning. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Which architectural firm are you working for right now? Because it sounds like a lot. >> Chris Dechter: I have that room and I will happily share those documents out as the world's second worst active learning classroom. >> Justin Rexing: I got the first one.

>> Chris Dechter: No, I have the first one too. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Student collaboration is one of those things where it may not be needed everywhere, but if and when you do it, do it intentionally and do it right. Is that what you're saying? M. Okay.

>> Chris Dechter: All right. And that's an interesting one because from the standpoint of collaboration technologies, are we all on board with like you can have a very successful problem based learning active learning space with tables and chairs and whiteboards. >> Larry Darling: So yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, that may speak to the one after those next one. Because this next one, Chris, I know you're going all in on.

>> Chris Dechter: I am. I've spent hundred dollars of my money on this next one. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Virtual and augmented reality. >> Chris Dechter: Yes. Every room. I'm removing projectors and displays. You walk in and there are some googles on the desk that you have to strap to your face hole. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You don't just hand them out in the hall. You have one student whose the whole job is to take

them and then take them back and clean them. Or you just leave them dirty. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, no. We hired the same people who work at the movie theater and they collect them afterwards and they wipe them down with the same rag that then they hang it. >> Justin Rexing: Greasy fingers. >> Larry Darling: This doesn't even make the if you're go going toa do it, do it rightite list. This is just don't do it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just flat out. No. So now let me

stretch. Hearken back to the on trial episode. What if I put a QR code up there and have you as a student scan that and take me somewhere else and have some other thing May not. You're not wearing worse. Is it worse? Okay, so you don't want that either. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, that's worse. >> Chris Dechter: Are you talking about second screen? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, second screen slash. It's augmented, is it not? >> Chris Dechter: Oh no, gross.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Let's not get stuck on the language here. Okay, moving on. >> Chris Dechter: That's a. I thought you were talking about second screen stuff where you want to be like that second content stream. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But yes. Is that is having a second screen in your. They're not augmenting the capability of the room. >> Justin Rexing: Mark Vocabulary likes to be stretched a lot.

>> Chris Dechter: That's not what augmented reality means and you know it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm trying to get you on technicality. >> Jamie Rinehart: This is not. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm leaving. It's out there. It's not needed. >> Jamie Rinehart: Moving out not. >> Chris Dechter: But what if I do want to visit Spain? >> Justin Rexing: Then go.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Well you just missed it. You could have been a part of an organization that would have taken you there if you would invest. >> Chris Dechter: Why is ISE not held entirely virtually if that's all people are doing? >> Marc Cholewczynski: So I'm just anything in Spain just be virtual. >> Chris Dechter: Mhm. I don't think Spain exists. I don'think. >> Justin Rexing: It's real Spain. Spain as a country is virtual in itself.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So see this next one if you d fle furniture let's. What's. I want to remove the group work thing. Do we need movable furniture and tables somewhere to sit? >> Jamie Rinehart: Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Will chairs. >> Jamie Rinehart: The chair has to move out from underneath the table. >> Chris Dechter: Does it though it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I don't.

>> Chris Dechter: Don't you have things called tablet armchairs? >> Jamie Rinehart: Because I've gotro built in 19 modular isn't it? >> Justin Rexing: With chairs this wide the ground is it the floor? They're stuck. They're stuck. Fixed to the ground with the little. The remember the ex thing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: If we could afford flexible furniture. >> Jamie Rinehart: Modular arm turns desk. >> Larry Darling: It's more important.

>> Justin Rexing: More like stretchingaborative terminology. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Collaborative. If the space has collaborative uses we want to have it. >> Larry Darling: I think it's more important than the technology in those spaces. So this goes higher on the list for me. >> Chris Dechter: I think it also lends itself to how the space is being programmed for.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: This is like for teaching Larry's Maslow's like hierarchy in a teaching learning space. >> Jamie Rinehart: I think there's some gross overdoing of furniture. But furniture and activity and t sound. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Like you're working for an architectural firm. >> Jamie Rinehart: These are extremely important for our learning space. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, I know it is. >> Jamie Rinehart: And so those are neat now.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean butts and seats is the drive. Is it not we need seats to. >> Jamie Rinehart: Put those but in Exactly. So I do feel as though the furniture and the space and that is all extremely now as usual. Usually it's overkill or it's completely in the wrong idea. Uh of. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You can move this anywhere. >> Jamie Rinehart: No, that's not what we need places where people can sit,

be comfortable and do the task at hand. Whether it's cheaching. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Do you want it coming out of your AV budget? >> Jamie Rinehart: Oh it never does anyway t fin I do. >> Larry Darling: I do. Yeah I do. >> Chris Dechter: Wait, you're gonna pay for'because you want to control it. >> Larry Darling: I want to control it. I want to have a seat at

the table. No pun intended. You have to bring that fight for the square footage per student and I can say if this lecture hall used to set 120 I can't make it flexible. Active learning and seed 120 so you. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Want to take that on as you're. >> Justin Rexing: Gonn own it you're gonna keep I would love to as a budget item but not getting new monies all the.

>> Chris Dechter: FF&E budget is Larry fine as a. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Power graveler we're going to give it to you so this one I had Carolina money this one the adaptive learning. >> Chris Dechter: To me what number are we on? >> Marc Cholewczynski: This is number 11. >> Chris Dechter: This makes have to read these.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I know number 11. Adaptive learning technologies AI driven tools and personalized learning experiences based on individual student needs in progress. This is not accessibility to me. That's not what this is. This is tools get it completely different that are this need like really focused on individual learner and it can adapt through them. And note you have an by way of the lms. Is this an LMS play?

>> Larry Darling: This is a learning technology, not a classroom technology. So is it even the same budget? >> Chris Dechter: That's what I was about to say. I want this because I don't have to pay for it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So you're willing to highest thing you. >> Chris Dechter: Need no money going I'll put this at number one and you do stor. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This and then chairs and then everything elses.

>> Chris Dechter: No chairs secondary because we have standing rooms. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No. Okay Standan. >> Chris Dechter: That's right but no I think so. I think these, these things are cool but to your point and that's why I've put that little comment in there this is something that's coming through the LMS or coming through some sort of campus wide site wide site license. You know everyone gets access to it etc. So these are. These are important tools for the teaching

experience. But I wouldn't think they're part of a classroom space. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Fine. Cool. But they should be accessible by way of webpage on your compute on my computer. Okay. >> Larry Darling: Lots of things are acceptable. That doesn't mean I pay for you. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Re you do whatever you want. >> Chris Dechter: You say acceptable or accessible Acceptable.

>> Justin Rexing: He's not so the Neighbor's dog is antagonizing my dog, so it's gonna be a little noisy for a little bit. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's fine. >> Justin Rexing: Hopefully you don't hear it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, next one. This is gonna be the one that we're gonna get all ben out of shape on here. Number 12. BYOD personal device support. Is this a need to have in a modern teaching learning space?

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yes. >> Chris Dechter: Yes, yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Larry Darling: For presentation. Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. >> Chris Dechter: Well, that's what it says here. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Proposation. Yeah. >> Chris Dechter: To share content. >> Marc Cholewczynski: To share content. Personal device via either wired or wireless connectivity. >> Larry Darling: No, you said wait.

>> Jamie Rinehart: No, no. It is. It is important. Whichever way you do it, it is important. >> Larry Darling: Why? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. I'm not gonna say itn. We're gonna on ramp it and we're gonna say whatever budget we have towards it, we're gonna associate it correctly. So put that in the top 10 somewhere. So we're saying yes. >> Chris Dechter: Do youn toa talk about the note I put below that or. Yeah, we gonna igore that and hope no one notices.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: By o m. Are we doing by m with this? So in a classroom, are we gonna swing our entire infrastructure over to make it accessible for people's devices? >> Larry Darling: Nice to have. Not necessary. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yes. >> Chris Dechter: Uh, I have the hardware to do this now, and I still don't wa want to do it. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, want to or do it right? No, it needs to be nice to.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Have let meing our boundaries. >> Jamie Rinehart: We're turning a thing societ that person. >> Justin Rexing: Can walk in that classroom, can email that document to themselves and open classroom. >> Marc Cholewczynski: O boy. All right, so inna ask you this. So if you're doing BYOD support, are you automatically including BYOM in that. In that capability? >> Justin Rexing: I usually do, but I don't have to.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: This feels like that USB c conversation all over again to me. But I also see the floor to you. Jamie, answer. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, no, I. I see. I group them together. I wouldn't even have separated them. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Oh, you just acknowledge I'm in the wrong for put different categories. Sorry. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, well, I just. If you're bringing your own device, you should. It's bringing your own meeting to right?

Can I use my own device? I am always using my own device. I don't like using an, uh, a provided device. And so I strive when I now I'm not successful most of the time. We all know the hiccups here, but I feel as though it's a need and I keep trying to implement these. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is not enough of a need because it's not budgeted correctly. Is that what we're getting at? >> Jamie Rinehart: Here, uh, I think the products and there are other options.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: We have not reached maturity enough to handle this on our own. >> Chris Dechter: That was my point. My thought was I would agree in the objective sense that this would be a uh, cool feature, maybe bordering on need but it's like right there on the edge to do. But I don't think either a or neither a most of the hardware we're deploying nor the users are mature enough to handle this. And that's my concern. >> Jamie Rinehart: It is a maturity.

>> Larry Darling: I don't want to put it there. >> Jamie Rinehart: But I feel like it's so important that I keep trying to implement it. And to Mark we're trying this teams room thing because everywhere and bring the uses. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. And m I'm wireless only. I'm all about getting rid of wired al together. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah. >> Jamie Rinehart: I am not been super successful. I've had marginal

success in different areas. But I keep attempting to do this because I do feel like it's important I provide computers in every single space. However, I'm that a hold it always brings in my own. And so I. >> Justin Rexing: But you know how to deal with that technically. I mean you could. I do rig stuff up. That's the problem. >> Jamie Rinehart: I still roll my eyes and I still have a heavy sigh.

Uh, every time somebody says we want to do this multiplied and I'm like oh my God, no. Okay, so you're not ready for that feel. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's important we'renn acknowledge this capability across the board. We're going toa spend something towards it. >> Chris Dechter: So Jamie, this cameknowledged. This came up in a recent meeting with the entire College of Business faculty and you. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's always a college of business.

>> Chris Dechter: Yeah. And when they were driving because college business they like to use their laptops as their or their devices as their primary source of content. And the request was they want to be able to conference. And yet if you go back and look through our tickets, the place where we get the most number of tickets for people having trouble with their own devices is the college business. So it's like I get that and I'm torn. And what I've been doing is the hardware I buy already

supports it. But to your point, it's a little quirky, it's a little weird. So I have it there if I really, really need it, but I'm not deploying it by default. >> Justin Rexing: But it's usually not the hardware's fault. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's usually it's a management the user's. >> Justin Rexing: Laptop and the user, um, understanding how to set it up correctly.

>> Jamie Rinehart: The college that you don't manage. Yeah. The college of business has a higher percentage of those adjunct those. Those not full time faculty members coming in with their own and it's their business laptop that they're presenting from and there's management issues and these are the things why it always breaks down. This is. >> Chris Dechter: Justin, what are you eating? >> Jamie Rinehart: But nothing good but gum.

>> Chris Dechter: Um, see know they're eating stuff. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Oh yeah, we like it. We're going to have some stuff. It's a needat it's's in the list of need to have for a classroom. >> Jamie Rinehart: I just keep throwing money at it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. I mean the exercise is we're gonna have to eliminate seven of these things in this list. >> Chris Dechter: O Holy crap. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I know seven.

Next thing and this is an easy one easy victory here. Digital signage. Do your classrooms need to have the capability of being digital signage? Even mass alerts. I'll put mass alert in thereert. >> Larry Darling: Now I've decided. >> Jamie Rinehart: I've decided that this, you know this telly protocol. You know where you can get a brand new television. It has a second screen with all advertisements all the time. That's how I'm paying for my budgets from here on out.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Justvenue add revenue. Um, no, it's a captiv. >> Larry Darling: Audience. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Are you thinking about the mass notification piece in your teaching learning class? You're not? Okay, well, I would like to have this the system. >> Chris Dechter: The system that we use for M so Mark, that was one of the items on our requirements for our campus wide system for digital science when we did that RFP about three years ago.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Ours doesn't. >> Chris Dechter: So that's already there for digital signage players, appliances, et cetera. But I'm not putting digital signage. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Somebody is screaming right now. But isn't that what you're doing in the classroom anyway? Aren't you just doing digital signage? Is it not a big display with information on it? >> Justin Rexing: No, but it's being managed. >> Larry Darling: Yeah.

>> Jamie Rinehart: This is the content. Isity. >> Justin Rexing: I'm not scheduled. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We have to eliminate something. I'm willing to eliminate this one with you all, but I want to make sure we're unpacking it. >> Jamie Rinehart: Not a need, but I have um. I am uh, and I said I. >> Justin Rexing: Don'T need lecture capture. I don't need digital signage. Like let's just.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You don't even need speakers, brother. So I don't even know what we're talk about. >> Jamie Rinehart: And I said in Jess earlier like no, I want to run but. But in all honesty, I don't see any issue with when in non use. Why can't some of these things display information and advertisements and revenue generation? >> Justin Rexing: Can't you do that through thec or programming and other things? Smart people.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. It may be a low cost victory. It could be a low cost victory. >> Jamie Rinehart: It could. Now it's an organizational struggle to do any of that anywhere of success and therefore it is not a need. But why not? >> Larry Darling: J I got a question. Um, if the room isn't in use, doesn't that mean it's empty and there's no reason to have digital signage in it? >> Jamie Rinehart: Um, not. I mean no. Yes.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: No, it's not for scheduled curricular use. >> Chris Dechter: In the back studying. >> Jamie Rinehart: I mean. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Did you know you could get coffee downstairs? >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, we don't have a lot ofrr Pepsi the choice of whatever students just to chill. So there is actually a lot of. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Eyeballs running around this next one. I had to provide some additional notes in here.

It sounded very nebulous and it was and it's advanced AV integration and what I really mean by this is do you need to have all of your stuff controlled by a control system in there to make a modern teaching learning space work? >> Larry Darling: Maybe I will die on this hill. >> Justin Rexing: Autation control system is a remote control. >> Marc Cholewczynski: AV automation and control Chris I think is the correct nomenclature here.

>> Justin Rexing: Y you don't control with a remote. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You're not really can't can. >> Chris Dechter: Yes he is Larry. My rooms are fully automated. They just take seven steps to do anything. >> Larry Darling: So oh yeah, you just have to walk over there and push button. Then you have to call to help desk and have them walk another 7,000. >> Chris Dechter: This one's been a challeng we're go.

>> Justin Rexing: Going toa put a processor in every classroom and we're going to connect it back to Astra so that it turns everything on and off by the classroom schedule automatically automatic. >> Jamie Rinehart: That works. >> Justin Rexing: That does people work and why doesn't it work, Larry? I tell you why. Because people are humans and they change classrooms like oh I don't like this seat. So we're going to move over here to this empty room and then.

>> Larry Darling: But if that room doesn't turn on they change back. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But what I don't think it has to be either or would that be useful if your rooms were capable of doing that doesn't mean you can't use it if it's not on you just turn it on Mean night. But yeah, I don't like Yah the opposite is true. It'also nobody's in there doing'm to turn. >> Justin Rexing: Things we do that already.

>> Chris Dechter: I turn it off at 10 o'clock at night and then we turn on the digital signage. Works better that way. >> Jamie Rinehart: At 2 to 3 in the morning. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I don't want to need this, but I feel like you need some type of logic control in a modern teaching and learning environment. Whether it be handheld or something or other. >> Chris Dechter: So I recently deployed a couple of room m. He wants a full control system.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I want some way to control things to make it easier and automated. I want it t if I need support. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, a couple of rooms which are. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Are. >> Chris Dechter: These are small rooms and they are scheduled and taught in as seminar rooms. Which means it's a conference room for academic purposes. The only thing in there is a big display and a conference bar and the PC of course, like God intended.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So is there a camera at the back room? Looking forward. >> Chris Dechter: No, there is not. It is. >> Marc Cholewczynski: They struggle presenting their thesis in there. >> Chris Dechter: Why are they presenting their thesis in there? Go down the hall to presentation classroom. This is for seminar rooms. Get out. So sorry. Yeah. Uh, but with that said, there is no control system on these. There's no control system on

these because it is a super simple room. It brings cost down. We're able to do more of them and they are wildly successful. People like them because they're like. I walk in, I push the. The button on the front of the display. If it's off, it just turns on and it just turns on and then I'm doing my. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Everything else is done by the compute. >> Justin Rexing: Next thing you know they got razor blades out cutting buttons off remotes.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You are this close to teams in Zoom Room, my friend. >> Chris Dechter: There's no remote in that room. >> Jamie Rinehart: Look, that was gonna be like. How far are we stretching the idea of control system? Because some of these rooms kits and some of these PC based things, not. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The ones on the list earlier, have. >> Jamie Rinehart: Controls are technically a control

system. They're just not what we andav traditionally consider. >> Marc Cholewczynski: There lies the practice here. Can you start to collapse and rethink of those as your budget may challenge you to do? >> Jamie Rinehart: And I do think once you start getting outside of a. There's one display, um, and one cable. Yes, a control system. And even in these simple cuddle spaces, I usually have a tiny button panel that's doing something right. Then that helps me somehow.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: We like something here. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, probably. Um, but I want to broaden it. Pass the. It has to be a Tron. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. I like. I want something there for data acquisition. I want something that can feed up into the service desk something along. I really, really want that. It can be the Display itself. The computer. Yes, exactly. So I'm willing to acknowledge it as a. We need something that speaks to it. Maybe

or maybe not. It's dedicated to hardware and thousands of dollars. Maybe there's simpler ways to go about it but something in the name of that support and management Fairport. >> Larry Darling: Yes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, moving on. >> Chris Dechter: So student workers standing outside looking in. >> Larry Darling: What are you doing in there with their pH. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Look, it's not working.

>> Chris Dechter: They're press pressed against the glass. >> Jamie Rinehart: That works. But only for three years because their life cycle's done. >> Chris Dechter: Because then Larry kills them. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yes. These next three I think are the most the ones that we want. We definitely want in as much as we can get of them. The number 15 uh, interactive displays need to have them everywhere. Right? Ubiquitous. Everywhere

you go. Every. Every display can be touched and it does something in response. >> Larry Darling: I uh, we say displays. Are we talking about on the instructor station or on the wall the students are looking at? Because I have them everywhere on the. >> Jamie Rinehart: Have is an interactive component needed? >> Larry Darling: I do because then if it's a hybrid class they can use the apps and draw and project it on the screen.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So is this lumped into your furniture conversation? If done correctly. If doing it correctly. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah but Larry, you're talking specifically about the instructor stations. >> Larry Darling: I'm talking about the instructor stationt price. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is low so we like to have local computing device. >> Chris Dechter: I don't even do that though Larry's not got me reminding

myself that I should probably start doing that just for the sake of doing it. But people don't use them as much as you think they do. But the cost they don't. >> Larry Darling: They hardly ever use them. But the planars are so cheap to do. >> Chris Dechter: Doesn't um. So related to the larger monitors. I've been doing a lot of interactive displays just because the pricing I get on those is less than a commercial grade non um interactive.

>> Justin Rexing: You know why? Because it comes with Android. So it. >> Chris Dechter: No it doesn't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: No it doesn't. Some of them do. >> Chris Dechter: But I can guarantee you the 60 or so I've deployed recently don't have Android on them. >> Justin Rexing: That's good. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So is obviously big. >> Chris Dechter: I say wait, wait wait. Interactive projectors?

No, no. They. >> Justin Rexing: Xbox controller with the camera. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Oh uh, the connect. The connect. >> Justin Rexing: Whole connect thing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeaheah. >> Jamie Rinehart: Is there an interactive component in the classroom needed? I don't care if it's one of those little floor box Dance Dance Revolution things as it needed. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Interesting concept. Revolution control.

>> Jamie Rinehart: A mole is not interactive. It is a control. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean you're pretty much just. You just described echo360. Wasn't that like their whole pressure things where you go and you stand and the whole thing like that was. Wasn't that their who spiel there for a minute Back in the day. Anyway. Okay, next piece. Justin, this screams every single class at

wku. Environmental controls, lighting, temperature, ventilation, creating comfortable learning environments, shades, all. All that. >> Chris Dechter: Are we doing that Noesus and I'm taking it out. >> Jamie Rinehart: I don't think it's a neat. >> Chris Dechter: You want to adjust the light. You walk over the wall and you turn a switch on like a human. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Human. Okay, so this is probably not as. >> Jamie Rinehart: Part of the AV system.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: That'no not clear delineation there. >> Chris Dechter: Because'here's the problem with it. All I'm doing is recalling presets. Right, right. And yet who do they call when they want those presets adjusted? Like you? I don't even. Just knock it off't turn on the light. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, get off my grass. Okay, so probably next one final one I have on today's list because this list will grow. Um, however, for argument's sake, security and privacy.

Now, this is not like browser. That's not what I'm talking about. Like access control systems, privacy measures to protect student data, ensure safe learning, safe learning spaces. This is like FERPA stuff. Andforcing that stuff, making sure that they feel comfort. Are we spending anything into technology to kind of speak to that? >> Jamie Rinehart: Well, besides blasting every one of their courses out into the Internet 24 7. I mean, I don't know what else.

>> Chris Dechter: I put a sign up that says you may or may not be recorded in this room. So I'm absolved of all things. Great. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, yes, I do think that is a necessity. Your through your lms, whether it's through control. And I don't think this iss it's not necessarily ob, but okay. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Some people say, hey, it's in the learning space box. @ s your problem. Like that's. >> Jamie Rinehart: I think. I think for us here, in the way

our institutions are set up. No, it's not. But there are some other institutions where it's part of that lumped in. We do everything. And yes, I think it's important in the learning space. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, Chris, did you capture any of that list for us? >> Chris Dechter: Nope. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Damn it. Okay, which ones you want to. >> Justin Rexing: Your notes? Al's got the notes.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, so of those 17 things, which ones do we think we would actually get rid of? >> Larry Darling: AI Al. >> Justin Rexing: O wait. Touch anything that's touchy. >> Larry Darling: The augmented virtual reality nonsense. >> Chris Dechter: Digital signage. Cram it. >> Larry Darling: Digital signage. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay. >> Chris Dechter: Environmental controls. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yep.

>> Chris Dechter: Okay, uh, security and privacy. I think we all knowge important, but I don't think that's us, so I. >> Jamie Rinehart: Cana convinced in that. >> Chris Dechter: Same with you. Where was that LMS one? That was like, that's not me. Adaptive learning technologies. Again, useful. Very cool. But not me. >> Larry Darling: So not us. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Okay, uh, adapting. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, all right.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean, how close are we here? We've gotten. That's one. >> Chris Dechter: I don't know. Cut. >> Marc Cholewczynski: One, two, three, four. We've got me three more to have to come off this list to get to 10. >> Justin Rexing: Lecture capture. >> Larry Darling: O no. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Oo See, Mark, I think you're missing. >> Jamie Rinehart: That's a ne. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Missing.

>> Larry Darling: I am dropping bring your own meeting before I drop that. >> Justin Rexing: Bring your own or bring your own device. Are we. Are we separatingating? >> Larry Darling: They're separate. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Interact. We're at five. Got to get two more. >> Chris Dechter: I'm saving money. Look at this. >> Marc Cholewczynski: This is wa, wa, wa. I don't know. Automation in that control system. That's got to come back.

>> Chris Dechter: I think I was trying to sneak. >> Justin Rexing: Up at WKU can teach without a freaking touch panel, Mark, you could teach'm. >> Larry Darling: Not saying can it doesn't mean it's the right way to. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not saying can'I want like the broader sense. Like if this is like the 80%, 80, 20 here. Like if you're taking, uh, today's normal classroom, are you gonna deploy it without a control system, without a mechanism for support?

>> Jamie Rinehart: Ca. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Because if so, then we've been doing it way effing right the last years. >> Justin Rexing: A mechanism without support. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Would you put something in there that allows you to pull off the data of usage in. Able to support things on. On, off automation. You're not doing any of that.

>> Justin Rexing: We're not pulling any data from these things. The only time we've done that, it was once in a dorm to actually see if people were using cable. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Don know if you're speing m for the masses here? I don't. >> Jamie Rinehart: I know. I'm not. >> Justin Rexing: I'm just saying I don't. >> Chris Dechter: Justin, you have control systems and dorm restrooms. What? >> Justin Rexing: We have dormsbod. Yeah, we have to.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Somebody has to monitor that camera. >> Jamie Rinehart: Chris. Camera. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah, we have. We have displays in public areas and dorms and they have to. They can't have remotes because they're in public areas. So we have to have little button panels there. So we started collecting data to actually see how much they were being used. They're not. They're not. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So we need to get rid of like one more thing Here we got.

>> Chris Dechter: Get rid of six. How many do I need to cut? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Seven. We got to get rid of seven to get down to 10 to give us round numbers. >> Chris Dechter: Okay, well, sorry, uh, whatever. Next one is collaboration technologies. You're out of here. I don't know. Guess is imag next on the list. >> Justin Rexing: Ye it out. >> Larry Darling: Let your cap collabor technology exerc size. >> Justin Rexing: Is easy for me.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You think it's a collabor? I think it might be the collabative piece. >> Larry Darling: That's not a standard thing that's in certain rooms you can do that. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It probably represents the thing that if you're gonna do is gonna swallow up the bulk of the budget right away. >> Chris Dechter: But isn't that same with remote teaching hybrid, H fllex, et cetera?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: That's I'm saying. Yeah, maybe it's that. Maybe it's the remote teaching piece that we actually want to pull out of there. >> Chris Dechter: Well, now I've got an eight off of there. >> Larry Darling: The same equipment can do the hybrid, can do lecture capture, can do so many other things where the collaborative necessity fights everything else. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, I'll give you if you want.

>> Jamie Rinehart: To collapse, this is return lecture capture. >> Marc Cholewczynski: And hybrid as one thing. And we're going to, uh, deal with it that way. Then we've gotten to the goal. >> Larry Darling: I think we can. >> Chris Dechter: It's the same tech in my systems. That's how I do. It's all software.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: So if we combine those. Okay, so then that would leave us with large dis plays audio computer lecture capture, hybrid teaching, ADA compliancy, image magnification, BYOD and uh, a control system. >> Chris Dechter: Wait, you move luxure capture under which. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It'S part of hybrid teaching, Remote teaching. They're the same systems. >> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, it's all the same system.

>> Larry Darling: It really falls under hybrid. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Hybrid. >> Larry Darling: Yeah, because hybrid means you can view the class later. >> Chris Dechter: O it broke your formatting ### oh my God. What's happening? >> Marc Cholewczynski: Did you douments all up? You killed my document. I have it in other places trying. >> Chris Dechter: To copy and paste. Oh, it's worse. What is happening?

>> Jamie Rinehart: And this m is why collaboration technology is unnecessary. >> Marc Cholewczynski: So for today's exercise, we did get down to 10 that we think are probably the most useful. I don't know if we would have enough time to actually categorize them to come away with. Yeah, see, you saw how if we. >> Jamie Rinehart: Had to break this up into a hundred dollar bill, we're going to be here for an hours, right?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Well, I'to think about it. Maybe we'll revisit this Maybe we'll work on this offline we'll share that as an update in few future um what that may look like and just think about it and if you have ideas based on those 10 again we'll post them in the show notes. If you think you could take a stab at how you would prioritize those capabilities from a round percentage number I'm curious and does it reflect what you actually spend on your classroom?

>> Jamie Rinehart: I think that's a. That's a really interesting thought because you could probably say there's a disproportionate amount of money spent on a control system and not on so. >> Chris Dechter: It may panels. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It may not reflect the market however it may give us insight of what we actually value.

>> Larry Darling: I think that's the key the market is different and that the document camera doesn't cost anything so I don't spend a lot on it but it's probably more important than actually it's not more important himself Sorry I there's a phone call coming in so I'm muting distracted.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Well okay well let's take a break. We'll marinate on this one uh and then we'll come back we'll revisit this and I'm curious if anybody does have any thoughts on that exercise and did was there any glaring holes in this list that we did not actually bring up when you hear those also students. >> Jamie Rinehart: Those are pretty important M m yeahble.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Student workers or students you know somebody that asked what do you need to deliver and I did say a well trained instructor at one point I do believe a well trained so training though I'm not sure we spend on that in the standard I think is very important documentation goes a long way yeah.

>> Larry Darling: Instructional designers all right's take take a. >> Chris Dechter: Break um and uh you can listen to um ah a message about a very important technology you should all be implementing in your spaces at the top of the list. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Stop fighting a tangled web of ethernet cables and power cords to POE injectors. Are you sick of your network switches failing to provide enough

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Upgrade today and join the power revolution. Gain sharing Poe from Independent Amalgamated. >> Chris Dechter: I send 100 watts to all my cameras. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's the most spooky one we have. I think out of all the ones we made, that one freaks me out the most. >> Justin Rexing: Uh, ca. >> Chris Dechter: Becausee it might almost be real. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, you're like, wait, isn't that just what POE does? I don't know. I'm confused.

>> Chris Dechter: Okay, um, all right, so last one here was, uh, kind of more of a question. Um, and I think we phrased this as PCs living on the same VLAN as our AV gear. And why can't we do that? Or can we do that? And if we do that, what are the pros, what are the cons? And why is this all always such a contentious topic? And then Jamie has a solution so it doesn't ever come up ever again.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: I want to say, ah, I have a dream of all this stuff. Living on one happy V. Lam not there yet. Really? Oh, wow. Well, I do. I would love to unlock the potential of all my stuff being able to communicate with one another and not need outboard widgets to create the connection betwixt those two devices. I'd love to unlock that full application level potential of a teaching and learning space with my computer in there as connected to all my

peripherals. Would love it. That is not usb. >> Jamie Rinehart: I am in support of, I guess the network architecture of that. Whether it's on a vlay segment doesn't matter as long as it canoss boundaries. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, I guess you could architect. But is there a definitive need to have these V line barriers at this point in this modern day and area in the classroom we just designed? Because we all

agree we need a computer in there. Does it need to be on its own separate VLAN. >> Justin Rexing: From what? From like, like we're talking land. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I'm not saying how it is today. Does it need to be that way? I believe this is a legacy based thought process that I got here and we're we fighting it and I don't. To me the answer, the answer is not. Well, I don't control the PCs. That's not the question. That's not what I'm asking.

>> Larry Darling: I do control the PCs. I don't control the network. This isn't the heal I want to die on. >> Justin Rexing: But it doesn't need to be on a separate vlan. For what reason? >> Larry Darling: No, it doesn't but it's not uh. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is it more often than not on a separate V? >> Chris Dechter: More often than I think. I think it is a legacy thing and I think it is due

to uh, organizational structure and different groups managing it. Like I'm imaging my computers and I don't want to affect AV systems or whatever and if I, I think it's where a lot of it comes comes from. >> Justin Rexing: If I plug up a comp to the network in a classroom and then I start plugging up AV devices to that same network, it's all going to be on the same vl. Like there's no separation for us but. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We takele seconds for a couple seconds work once.

>> Jamie Rinehart: So. So I have separate VLANs for all the above. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I think that is what I think a lot. That's like the. If I had to make a bet that's what things look like at largees, you have machines on others like it Appian. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, it's, it's purely uh, managerial. Right. So with the AVV landn now I can use any computer and get to this devices within the AVVLAN area,

right. They are trunk, they are connected, it's the enterprise, right. We can communicate, we can get specific things. Right. But the computers as they connect, they're on their own deals. So the telephones are on theirs and this is on theirs. Right. But time for this. Yeah, I would love to have the application layer of all of our stuff. I would love to be able to use a single network port on a computer and get the video and audio ins and outs. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Isn't that like.

>> Jamie Rinehart: I would be really close but it's all, it's all again we're back to this management thing. It's whether it's PC management, whether it's security management, whether it's something doesn't matter management. It's just like Your wireless network in is usually a different VLAN however it has access to all the same crap. >> Chris Dechter: That not through access control.

>> Jamie Rinehart: So when you uh. But you personally you through because I'm in a special buc into the wireless and connect all that. So it's now a management issue. >> Chris Dechter: Not I can, you can't. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is it. Is this a fear based decision? We are afraid of people being able to get into our devices and cause malicious things that I think getting devices.

>> Chris Dechter: I think as much as interrupting in my case anyway it's interrupting the experience of someone like yeah. All of a sudden all the DANTE mics go down because there's some sort of spurious traffic coming from the PC or something.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Now there was gun too. Yeah there was guidance back in the day where the trons of the world said oh don t we recommend a wholesale separated isolated van so that we were not having traffic crossing uh, the streams were not crossing. And that was old guidance. Do we still live in that world? >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh yes. >> Justin Rexing: I don't know if we ever lived in that world.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: It was in like their training classes they recommended their AV control and management be a wholesale separate van immune to traffic that's going on on your network. >> Jamie Rinehart: And the irony here is that I did it for the other reason. It's like I did it because I'm using JPEG 2000 and I'm using Dante and I'm using a 67 and it's pretty well contained with all the multicastas protocols within its V. Now you're talking multicast.

>> Justin Rexing: Mark was talking control trafficic. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Uh traffic. >> Chris Dechter: Traffic Traffic. >> Larry Darling: All of it Potentially. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, every bit of it. So could not live in a happy world. >> Justin Rexing: Traffic we put on the network all the time. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, I know On a separate. On the same VLAN that your PCs are managed on. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah, but not the media.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Uh but I separate it more so that my accidental craps from my AV devices. Jamie's the problem blow up somebody's because some of our stuff use jumbo frames and some older computers and printers hate those and they will just absolutely puke all over their own shoes. So we have it separated that way now they can't. We can access all of it through our enterprise network with the right credentials and management. Correct. But. But they don't technically live on the same

vlan. They're on the same enterprise network but segmented and management in a way to isolate the stupid traffic from the computer non mature traffic. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We don't want that stuff getting over here. >> Jamie Rinehart: Exactly. >> Marc Cholewczynski: I mean we've had the conversation with Our network core team and they're like, nothing you're using is so bandwidth heavy that we can't support it. Our back planes, we have like

massive backples. So it's not a traffic. >> Jamie Rinehart: That's why I do it. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's not that. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, but it is a QoS issue because the Jamie'really earlier comment about say, like printers or something, if my control traffic and my printer traffic interrupts each other, it's not really causing a problem because that button press on my touch panel, in't it gets there

27 milliseconds later, whatever. But if it's a video stream, if it's an audio stream, that can start to cause problems. >> Marc Cholewczynski: That's when you get into the QoS application. I think it does change and a lot of don't want to do that. >> Chris Dechter: And I think that's why things get segmented because it's easier to manage that at that point. To say, I'mnna manage this stuff completely separately. You don't have to worry about it.

>> Jamie Rinehart: It's all a management issue. It's not necessarily a technology issue. And I separate it now for management. That's why I separate it and I control the IP addresses in this area and then I can do these things. But it's all in the enterprise. Yeah, I could do this. I just don't do. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Do we need to start thinking more about it to do what we kind of started off with, to unlock that application layer that we're trying to get to in our service?

Is the world that's architected on the benches of all these manufacturers a commingled world? >> Jamie Rinehart: No, I don't think. I think they're still. >> Marc Cholewczynski: You think they're stillfacturing. >> Jamie Rinehart: They're still manufacturing to an island world. Not necessarily islands.

>> Chris Dechter: Absolutely. They are. Yeah. Well, Justin, you shared that document the other day from M A consultant asking or a programr asking, what are the static addresses we're setting all these devices up on? It's just like. Well, thatid you're already off on the wrong foot. >> Justin Rexing: Yeah. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Reserved addressesing that.

Uh, interesting. But so that being said, we still have some need to get traffic from one of these segments to another and we're starting to see some creative ways to do that. And Jamie, you've had some experience with the one we are toyinging around the beginning of the show that's allowing us to kind of bridge those things to get more of that application layer experience. But with a widget.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah. And that. So this is one of the things I've been wrestling with like one of the reasons I went with NDI seven years ago, I did a whole building install with all NDI everywhere because I saw that, well, the NDI desktop application, it's for Windows, it's for Mac, it's for Linux. Awesome. We could truly get a video and audio feed in and out of a network port to all these displays and not have to have a bunch of interconnectivities.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Um, now kind. I'll forget the admin thing, we'll forget the server thing, forget the multicast thing, we'll forget all that. >> Justin Rexing: Now you touch panel up on your computer and now everything could just be controlled from the computer.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Well, I've got to be honest, what I, what I was trying to get away from was Zoom because at the time Zoom kind of worked but it had, you didn't have as crisp uh, of images and sharing was kind of a pain in the ass and you had some, some connection and there was still licensing. This was prior to the bulk licensing of COVID Right, this PR to the. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Normalization of Zoom as Clleenex.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yes. And what I really wanted was in my programs that basically from the computer and from the cameras directly, they just shot the NDI stream directly to the computer of the other place. And you had full bandwidth NDI images of everything and it's only, it's. It's what, 120 megs on a. >> Marc Cholewczynski: When you experience that, that first time and you're like wow, this is gonna change everything. And then you start. Wait a minute.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Yeah, start. Well, I got it mostly working, you know the, the who working? Well, yeah, I can't get it straight in and out of a computer for management reasons. >> Marc Cholewczynski: For management reasonings. Right. For all the stuff we just talked. >> Jamie Rinehart: I'm still blasting it everywhere and I. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Could actually nobody subscrib but man, I'm flooding the network with that. It's everywhereul edge blowing ni everywhere.

Look, no, I'm with you. >> Jamie Rinehart: I mean it's elegant making fun of. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Me, but I'm making fun with you. Jamie, it's different. No, no. >> Jamie Rinehart: All you doubters and haters out there just because I didn't have some write up in some newspaper somewh. But uh, Newspaper. What is that? But one of the things is getting it on and off the application layer, Mark. Uh, that was the problemly. I could get the

multicasting to work. I could get it restricted down into particular network segments. I could make all of it happen, except I couldn't get in and out directly of the computere Fine. So now I had to have a decoder and then some sort of hdmi um to USB capture device. They have two little widget towns the. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Stream to switch to uvc. >> Jamie Rinehart: So we've been bitching and moaning on the show for a long time about I just want to be able to pull RTSP or NDI or

SRT or something. Dante av. I don't give whatever. I wantna pull that off and go directly us to UVC device, directly to usb. Why can't we do this and know. >> Marc Cholewczynski: The answer is not some. Well, you could just open obs and you could just bring it. No, that's not the answer. I'm not running obs on facy application level set up. >> Jamie Rinehart: Uh, it's profile based, so you have to reset it up for every single. It's nothing.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: You can't do it. No, we're not doing it. >> Jamie Rinehart: We're not doing it at scale. So. >> Justin Rexing: Right. >> Jamie Rinehart: Um. I talked Lumens into sending me a demo of one of their decoders. They have this whole AV over ip like substructure to their thing. I'm m like, I don't really want any of theome. I don't want any of the crap. I want the decoder because it takes those streams and creates directly a

UVC stream. And I was doubtful at first and I'll be damned, it's working. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But they have it as an encoder and a decoder. >> Jamie Rinehart: So they have an encoder also. Um, I'm just one decoder, but it pulls ndi off makes. >> Marc Cholewczynski: They did send out something today on that product. It went out and there was some publicity around it. And I laughed because I thought of you when I was reading. I was like, this has to be Jamie's widget.

And then looked at the schematic and I was like, what in the hell'going on here? I couldn't even follow what was happening. >> Jamie Rinehart: I'm more interested in trying their other stuff now and I think we might even have a discussion with them because it is lumens. So I use a lot of their document cameras and things. But it's not what you necessarily always think of as being the market leaders of anything. >> Marc Cholewczynski: But that's. That's the disruptor potentially here.

>> Jamie Rinehart: I think so. And I think at least the thought and I want to talk to some of their engineers. It says, okay, you're doing the things that everybody kind of thinks they want and by God, you're actually doing it now. There's some firmware quirks that I think they could fix. And there's some other things. Uh, but my, my four hour impression of it today is by God, it works. >> Chris Dechter: So Jamie, could you spend a few minutes describing the

box that looks ##s. Good and it seems to work well. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Do we have that? We had the PDF, do we not? >> Chris Dechter: I'm just looking for some very high level kind of um, uh, analysis of this that doesn't get into the details of the technology at all. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's a box. >> Jamie Rinehart: It's a tiny box. >> Marc Cholewczynski: It's got network cables in. >> Chris Dechter: Is it gray or silver?

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Know. >> Jamie Rinehart: Hold on a second. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Just talk. >> Jamie Rinehart: Give me a moment. >> Justin Rexing: So when you talk to Lumens though, didn'weren't they like oh, you mean you're going to use it for that? Like why would you do that? It wasn't there a discussion that you had with Lumens that they didn't really know what they had? >> Marc Cholewczynski: O yeah, right. Looks like every other little black box.

>> Jamie Rinehart: Like it's just a little black box. Has a network cable on. >> Chris Dechter: You say the construction is, is the type that we would expect from Lumens? >> Jamie Rinehart: No, it's steel with quarter, with quarter 20. Uh, got a quarter 20 on side. >> Chris Dechter: Too much detail. Back it off a bit. >> Jamie Rinehart: Quarter 20 everywhere. Um, USB C to the computer. It's POE

enabled. It's just the typical black box you would expect from an AV over IP thing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Is it USB C powered by Chancees also poe? >> Jamie Rinehart: Ok, well, hold on. I don't know. It has the power. It has the power outlet next to the usb. Has a power outlet next to the USB C thing. Okay, I don't knows. I don't know if it provides power or can be powered by power because when I plugged it in

I have a POE switch. So it just fired right up as a simultaneous HDMI out. Look, I'm not, not yet ready to say that this is the second coming, but I think they're on the right track. And to Justin's point, uh, question. A minute ago when I called them and I started asking about this, they're like wait, what are you doing? Because they wanted to sell me the AV over ip. They wanted to sell. They wanted to sell me that this was Dante AV version. Um,

and they're like oh, don't you want this to be encoder dec? I said no, I just want the decoders can of worked independently. And they went why? And when I told them so I can use it, I have NDI cameras everywhere and I now have to buy little widgets in my case from Mawell. Right. That decodes the NDI into some kind of baseband to convert it into usb. I said I want to skip all that bullshit. I just want to go right in the computer with us

uvc. And they said, well, yeah, of course the other part about it, they went. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Back and scrambled and'like ship it to them. Just ship it. Get, get him now rewrite the market. >> Jamie Rinehart: If you use their encoder and not, not connected to a camera, just connect it to something else. It also ingests whatever other video feed into it. Y so it's now ah, a capture device for other things.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: Correct. I think that was a really. And that's what made the schematic so funny when I like went through their little room diagram because it's both directions for these things and you're like, what am I looking at? And it's all in a circle and it comes back and I'm. I can't even track this. >> Jamie Rinehart: So I got the demo for one purpose only and the website, the new coaster. I wanted to see if it do my one thing, my one particular item. And

it did that. And it has a control API that I'm trying to work my way through, but haven't had that much time yet. But I'm interested in more and we'll see what happens. And I think we might want to talk to them because I'm curious on if they really are implementing USB C and Dante AV the way that they say they are and the way that I have experienced so far with just the NDI version. Um, I think some of the other manufacturers need to be on note because.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: This box, it's a good step in the right direction. >> Jamie Rinehart: This box was actually as affordable and less so than some of the other ones that I'm purchasing to try to do the same thing. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah. >> Justin Rexing: And we are not sponsored by Lumens, by the way. >> Jamie Rinehart: We are. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We're always looking for these little, these things that solve

these problems. We just talked about that whole VLAN traversal and having to get out of that. So this is affordable element that allows us to address those problems, to unlock that application layer, experience what you're doing. I think it's awesome. I think, you know, not having to be one of the big trons or one of the big players and a disruptor who's willing to take a chance on a product that. To deliver something that people actually need. So I think it's awesome to see it.

>> Jamie Rinehart: So yeah, more to come on that, maybe even some discussion with their engineers. But uh, so far Four hours in. Let's see what. >> Marc Cholewczynski: We'll see what happens next week though. >> Jamie Rinehart: Although I just unplugged it, so now I got to restart the counter. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Yeah, the whole thing is goingn collapse, so. >> Larry Darling: Well, to one time use. >> Chris Dechter: We get it throw away, probably

priced and such. It's not terrible to do that. All right, well, uh, yeah, we're way over, so appreciate everyone sticking around for us here. Um, we will, uh, have some more follow up from Jamie on this, uh, and all that fun stuff. Um, and we're also gonna revisit, uh, the hundred dollar one, uh, conversation because Mark still owes me hundred dollar one hundred for this because, well, I'm waiting.

>> Marc Cholewczynski: For the people underneath you to send you theirs. Then you'll be fine. >> Chris Dechter: Yeah, so everyone send me $100 and I will send some of that to Mark. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Put we have a donation tab. Just go ahead and send your hundred bucks in there. >> Justin Rexing: Make sure it's multi level marketing. >> Chris Dechter: Nope. >> Marc Cholewczynski: Reverse funnels says funnel plan. Stick to it. All right, see you guys.

>> Chris Dechter: Well, we've managed to ruin yet another episode of AB Superri Friends off the Rails. You can contact us with questions, topic ideas or general complaints at mayobag atavsuperfriend.com. if you complain loud enough, we might just invite you on the show. Nice work, everyone. Sharp broadcast. Really good. Everyone on the floor as well. Really

a lot of hustle. I liked it. The opinions expressed by the AV SuperEnd are solely those of the individuals and do not represent their respective institutions, organizations, companies or clients.