Trigger Warning ⚠️| Building a Life After Domestic Abuse as an ADHD and Autistic Woman w/ Maralen P.

The most dangerous times is for victims of domestic violence in leaving. And I know before I say any of that, like the biggest mistake that you can make as a narcissistic abuser, that you're trying to leave. And I did that at least four times. Hello and welcome back to Authentic On-Air with Bruce Alexander. I'm your host, Bruce Alexander. Put some time aside right now and stay locked in because this is going to be one of the most interesting investigations that authenticity I've done yet.

Marilyn, Penny, feather this here and we're going to get into surviving domestic abuse, trying to make it in the music industry. Contact for past lives and advocating for Neurodivergent was much more after today's remarks. Today, I want to think about the difference between authenticity in honoring yourself and just failing to grow. The last time you said That's just the way I am with someone on the receiving end of your unit's being hurt. Is that who you are?

A person who hurts people unapologetically and has no desire to evolve? This might seem like obvious behavior to many, but this used to be me. And this is why I grew up with the phrase that was the soundtrack to my childhood. I don't write the news. I just reported. As I see it, that was code for I just said something out of pocket for you and you don't deserve an apology. It took a lot of intentional work for me to unlearn that view of authenticity. This is just who I am. Deal with it.

If you are listening to this show and still applying that principle to your life and relationships, I accept you as you are on a journey. But I challenge you to reject the idea that we are ever done. Take some time to reflect on your existence and the relationships in your life and be brutally honest about the quality of what you find are the connections that are important to you suffering because of your stunted growth.

It is never too late to take accountability for your fall and the decline in or failure of a relationship. I can't promise you any resulting outcome for those relationships, but I can guarantee that if you clean up your emotional litter and continue to keep your side of the street clean, the quality of your relationships that you maintain will start to improve, as will the quality of the connections you attract. I would love to hear from the authentic audience.

Tell me if you have embraced the boundless nature of personal growth or if you have gotten stuck in the This is just who I am thinking. Go to the episode 24 Reflection Post on Instagram. Facebook Friends are LinkedIn Authentic Identity Management.

If you are tired of hurting people but need help getting out of that detrimental philosophy type stuck in the comments section and I will take the lead and contact you and set up a free 30 minute consultation to learn how I can help you start living more authentically If you love the space we are creating or want to help advance my mission of making the world a safer place for authenticity, There are a few ways you can support the show Me review and tell me what you think is great

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If you are comfortable being a spokesperson for authenticity, you can be a financial backer of the authentic mission by going to Patreon and searching Authentic with Eric Garner and signing up for membership. I am dedicated to the work of this mission long term, but I would love your help and more quickly making the world a safer place to show up as yourself. My guest today has a distinguished honor to be the first time guest with an astronaut.

Taylor, though, did make a second appearance for a very special I'm so 20 where I took the guest seat in the authentic on air studio and he pirated my host time. If you haven't check that out. Put that next on your playlist right now. It was such an engaging conversation and a great opportunity to get to know me, my motivations and my mission a lot better than any other. First appeared as guest as one half of the marvelous Masonic Moguls podcast.

Steve is back today to talk about her story as an individual, and this is guaranteed to deliver some fresh content, but I am definitely not appropriate for ADHD. Autistic Disabled Musician, Yoga practitioner, Abuse Survivor. Home Mother, Educator, advocate, Visionary, Reiki healer are some but not all the way. As Marilyn identifies, she characterizes herself as a jack of all trades and a master of many. I know already that Marilyn and I don't agree on everything, but I loved her energy so much.

She carried that with her from the very start. As a fellow ADHD dear, I appreciate her ability to be well versed in so many facets, but even more so, I appreciate her support of the authentic mission through her own podcast and enthusiastic support of my podcast and our use of social media as a platform. She is actively in line with the objective of making the world a safer place to show up as yourself.

There were in the intro there because I am positive we are going to use up every moment of my two hour recording window engaging into this conversation. I can't wait to get into it. Welcome to the show, Marilyn 2012. Hi. So excited to be back. I think. There's an applause, but. I don't know if I'm going to be like, Hey, I love you. I'm going to let. So before we get too deep into it. I'm very happy to have you back on.

Let's start with you telling me in your own words how you spent the majority of your time. Why do you think I on the show and like, really who you are? wow. That's a loaded question. Okay. I have to break that down. So right now, I am spending a lot of my time healing. I escaped a 12 year domestic violence relationship last year, last January. And so it's crazy to think we're coming up on two years already. It's went by really fast. But that has been my sole mission is to heal.

And I don't feel like anyone can ever truly be completely healed. And I don't think that that's the goal, because then that that would mean that there's nothing left. What's after you're healed? You know what I mean? Like what happens when you get to that destination? So I feel like there's always ways for us to heal and evolve. Like you said, ways to transform and trans hate our energy. And so that is really what I've been dedicating myself to, is just healing and resetting my nervous system.

When you are in a chronic state of survival mode, living in that type of abuse, when your environment is primarily chaos and dysfunction, your body goes into a hyper, like you're more hyper aware, you're in hyper vigilance, you're in survival in that sense, your body into a sympathetic state and your nervous system can't regulate. So I'm trying to get back to the parasympathetic state and relax so which is easier said than done. I've done that down a little bit.

You're trying to get back from your upstairs brain down to pretty much. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, but aside from that, like I did last year, I got put on disability and it's something that I was fighting for two years for, ended up having to get an attorney to help because I was denied the first few times and I have lived the majority of my life since I was like 17, 18 years old with chronic pain. And I started out like having migraines, like very early on.

Like I remember being in junior high and like calling to come home because like, my migraines were so severe and then it just kind of like progressed to having like numerous surgeries for different things, being in a car accident that left me with nerve damage. And then as a result of being in violent relationships like that is really hard on the immune system.

And so it develops like chronic illnesses such as like fibromyalgia or a And so I knew that I needed help, you know, and I struggled with working because like as an ADHD or like it is really difficult to work like it's very hard to find a job. And I know everyone's experience is different. For me, I always struggle with having jobs like I've had like a million jobs since I was like 15. Grocery store, Walgreens.

I will say like one of the Spanish jobs I had was I managed a shoe store, I managed journeys, and that was really that was something I could do. Like I really felt strong and confident because I got to do things that I never thought I was capable of doing. And I was able to just like be myself, which was really awesome. And you get to connect with different people every day and selling shoes, you know? So and also that discount. Yeah, it was like 40% off. So my kick game was strong.

But you know, I got them Reebok and Converse. So that's where like my paycheck with. But yeah, it was really difficult. So I was like always wanting to like, do what I wanted to do. And I love to sing. I grew up seeing the church and then I, I, I had always in hair. My mother had done hair, but she wasn't like, well versed in like natural curly hair or anything. And because I grew up in the black community, like, I was just so like, fascinated with black hair, natural curly hair.

So, like, I really just wanted to learn how to do that. So I had a friend that taught me how to do cornrows. I think I was in like seventh grade. And then I just like, continued, and then I ended up getting my I'm a licensed hair braider. I took that test, I think it was in 14. And then I worked in the salon for a little bit, which was really overdue, elating and emotionally taxing.

I think if I would have like been in my own little suite, it would have been different because like the vibe that I wanted to create was like just really chill, you know? I was always playing like Erica Badu or Jill style. Like things like that is very like chill and it's really it was really difficult and challenging being a white person in an all white salon who primarily just served black client. So like that was really difficult for my clients as well.

So it just didn't really feel like a safe environment all the time. So I like just started doing household clothes and going to people's houses where it was just more comfortable. And then, you know, it just got to the point when COVID happened, I just I couldn't anymore. So my health was just like really declining. And so, yeah, I got on disability last year and that has really given me an opportunity to rest.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, and just do what I need to do to take care of myself because I knew that I needed that to be able to one, financially provide for myself and my kids and getting out of my relationship. And so and I just was like us. I want to go into relationship events again. Personally. I want to make sure we set the proper framework. So can you tell me how you define authenticity?

I think I would define that as just like my brain wants to say, like showing up as the highest version of yourself. And I think that sometimes it's hard to get there because we don't see ourselves there, especially like if you've been gaslighted a lot, so you don't really know how to like, trust yourself or believe that you're capable of those things.

But I do think that if you can envision what your highest self looks like and I've been able to do that a lot with like doing shadow work and journaling has really been helpful for that. You'll eventually get there, you know what I mean? And just like having just like you talk to your inner child or past versions of yourself or whatever, I think when you can also talk to the highest version of yourself, like, what would she say? What would he say?

You know, how how do you think that they would speak to you when they speak life into you? Why would they be uplifting and encouraging, or would there be a lot of doubt, self negative talk that I can't do this or I'm not capable or I'm not enough? I don't think your highest self would look like that, you know? And so I really had to like, put myself in that place to be like being like, I don't want to remain a victim my whole life either. But like, when do I get to show up for myself, you know?

So you think that. Your authentic self has a lot more to do with aspiration, reality? I mean, can you reframe that? Yes, I can, because I think that saying it's not real is not correct. Is it more about aspiration than perception, like what you're currently perceiving as who you actually are? You think it's more about who you want to be and trying to, you know, trying to have a conversation with that person?

Not necessarily because I feel like your highest self is who you've always been, but we forget through conditioned and through like through society telling us we have to conform what we should and shouldn't be the environments you were raised in. So I think it's the person that you've always been. So it's more about like returning home to that person, like a homecoming, you know. And so and I feel like the closer and closer you get, then you do start to remember our name.

Like I have always been this I am worthy. This is my birthright. I've always been deserving of this kind of love. And so it's really just about remembering. I think. I think that that really helps for me to reframing. Yeah. That way is that you've always been there. Yeah, It's just getting back that right. I love. That piece. Though. How would others describe you both correctly and incorrectly? I question And so you can tell me why you hate that question. You can talk about that too.

Yeah, I think because I've always struggled with like talking about myself. So and it's it's like a I don't know, I've always struggled with giving myself like self-praise or anything like that because that wasn't the environment that I grew up in either. And so it's really about like unlearning that, that I'm allowed to celebrate myself. I'm allowed to feel good about myself, I'm allowed to be confident.

But I think for women in particular, too, it's like such a double edged sword because it's like, you know, you should love yourself and self-love and you should be confident and you should love your body and you should do all these things. And then when you do start to do those things, why are you being so cocky? Why are you why are you being so self-absorbed or she just loves to show herself off or she just loves it? And it's like, So when do I get to feel, you know what I'm saying?

So yeah, questions like that have like it's been hard to talk about myself. So something I'm working through, I would say, yeah, I don't know. She's loving, She is kind, she is weird and outgoing and loves to just play. She's giving is centric. Maybe talented like, well, first. And do you identify with all those? I do. So I think that's like a part of healing right now.

I feel like in this moment really just like saying those things out loud to myself, knowing that those things are part of me and not all or one define who I am either, you know what I mean? So I think that I'm like, I'm really embracing the idea that like those conversations of how how would somebody else beat me both in this situation, somebody who loves me, knows me, how they speak to me, and then talking to yourself that way, because I know that I am definitely terrible about negative self.

And the effect that it does to you is like it's like the person who is supposed to love you the very most is giving you just terrible, terrible criticism. Yeah. And your body can't really tell the difference. No. So you're wearing that. And so it's I think it's really so important to think, how would someone who loves me describing what would they say. Right. And then realize that you love you so maybe you still listen to yourself. Yeah, it's easier said than done. I 1000 was great. I know it's.

Really hard and I think that's a part of like working through ego because like, I think when we talk about like ego death, like of course we're not meaning it in a physical sense either, but I think the goal isn't to get rid of ego because everything is about balance. An ego is a part of who we are, but it's more about gaining control over your own mind and being in the driver's seat of that instead of allowing ego to always drive.

Because that's where that negative self chatter and everything comes in, because that's its role, is to create doubt, your worry insecurities, or you can't trust anybody or you know, these people are saying these things about you or, you know, and so it's just all of these seeds of lower vibrational thought.

And so I think when you can come to the point of awareness where you can just like observe and be like an interesting thought and then like not judge it, and then let it pass and not give any action to it. Yeah, you know, where like you don't internalize that and is like a weird thought. I just had. It's not true because thoughts are just thoughts. So we, we get to choose what we accept as our truth or not. And that's really hard.

Like if you were abused as a child or you grew up and entered into traumatic relationships or you were gaslighted like there's so much insecurities and lack of just inner knowing of yourself because you've been told of who you should be, that it's hard to really cure what that means. You know what I'm saying?

I just feel like it's very hard to navigate through trauma survivors because gaslighting causes such severe psychological damage and so like really gaining to learn that you can trust yourself and your intuition is probably one of the hardest things to heal from. I and definitely my intuition is not something that, like I have a super strong connection to you, but I know how hard that can be. Going back to something you're supposed to believe.

Yeah. And you know, you were talking about having emotions and just observing them. I saw video this morning about me. I was like, that was an emotion. And then it was it was just they floating by. And yeah, we just moved on. It's funny because I think that it's so easy for me, like I will have a positive thought about myself and I can I do that? It's like, that was great. And that's like, you're just in one of your out the other that happened.

But like, I look in the mirror and I think I'm so overweight and I never let that just flow through. Yeah, that, that's the one that's like, well, now I'm going to just ruminate on that thought and I'm going to mean I'm going to be myself and myself. Like, I would love to be where I can have both positive and negative thoughts and just let them flow through and hang on to the next level. Right? I resonate with that so heavily because, you know, like our bodies are ever changing.

We're not 12 years old anymore. And I think like I know that there's stigmas on both sides of like such pressure to like, look and be a certain way. But like with women, like, you know, again, there's that like, look, young, you got to look young, you got to look young. Everything is like, I'm not 12 anymore. I have a woman body. I don't have to like, not have a suit or whatever the case. My flesh color, baby bag. I love you. I love you. Yes, Yes. Wow. That's brand. New. It's so great. I'm like.

Coin. That term where, like, you know, the Doritos, you know, and Taco Bell, you know. But like, I think that when you can have like a balance and like brands and like with food, I always had a really negative relationship with food and a lot of that was like developed from my abusive relationship because he was like super into working out he had on steroids since he was 18. Like every all the food was always regulated in the house.

Like the nit picking with me started like, I mean, within like the first two months that we were even together, just slowly picking at you and making you feel insecure about yourself and like the way that narcissist will do it. They tried to they will give you criticism and try to say that they're doing it for your well-being like they're helping you. And so because you love that person, you believe them like, okay, why trust them? Like he knows what he's talking about?

And so that became a really heavy thing for me. And I, you know, when you have like ADHD, like you hyper fixate, you know. So then I started having terrible, like anxiety around that because then it felt like everything I ate was the same. Nothing that I ate, everything had a wrong ingredient or carbs or whatever, fat and macros, counting your macros. Then you got to have a certain calorie intake and you went over your calories for the day.

And I mean, I had my fitness and there's nothing wrong with tracking your food and doing those things, but being in an abusive relationship, it was wrong and it was not okay. And it was very detrimental to my health and how I viewed myself. And I remember like the last two years that I was in that relationship is when I start really started my healing journey when I was still in there, which is crazy. And I stopped working out and it was just like I couldn't do it anymore because it wasn't fun.

Like I hated going to the gym, Like I prefer to like, go hiking or ride my bike or dance or you know what I mean? Like, I just hated the gym environment. It was just such toxic masculinity all the time. And like, I hated being sexualized, going to the gym. And so I stopped working out and man, it was like, shame, shame, shame. And I just remember being so proud of myself for, like, standing up and like, you know, if me and the kids wanted ice cream one day I would go get ice cream.

And he was just like, You don't need that. And I'm just like, But I want it, so I'm going to go get it. And he was just like, Well, I can't eat that or I'll be over my calories for the day. And I'm like, okay, well, you don't have to eat it, but I want ice cream right now, so I'm going to go get it, you know, And like, I was really starting to like set boundaries and stand up for myself.

And I remember being in the kitchen one day and like the sun was shining and I had shorts on and he started laughing and he was like, my God, what is that? And I just immediately knew that he was talking about cellulite on my leg, which cellulite is not even a real thing. And we'll talk about that later. But like and he was like, when did you get that? And I was like, are you talking about my cellulite? Sounds like it's always been there. And I was like, Don't you love it? You know?

And I was just like, being super sarcastic. And I'm like, you know, it just made me realize, like, everything is projections, you know? So like, he was projecting his own insecurities on me. But that doesn't mean that it didn't linger because it heavily did. And I've struggled really hard the last few years to, like, have self-acceptance for my body in the way that it's changed because it fluctuated so much like before I left. Like I got down to like £105 more. And how tall are you for five one.

So that's yeah, that's like a 14, 13 year old daughter. Yeah. Where is that By the thing? My 12 year old is like £180, like everyone was, you know, bigger, taller than me.

And last year I was really doing a lot of body work, and I'm like, forcing myself to stand in the mirror naked and look at every inch of me and, like, touch myself, get familiar with, like honing in on my sensuality, my sexuality, and like, all of the parts of myself that have been violated and having to really regain like, say, physical touch with myself. And that was really important for me. And so, I mean, like in the last year, I mean, I've gained like almost £20.

I feel like that's a great thing. So I want to kind of stay in that moment because I'm like talking about standing in the mirror naked and like spending time with yourself. And that makes me feel super uncomfortable. So that means like, I want to talk about that. Yeah. Because I like, I've never been sexually abused. I've never been in an abusive relationship where I was the abuse. I feel like I have been unintentionally abusive and I have been a very bad partner many times. Even in my marriage.

I have to grow a lot before I can say I think I was a good partner. But being on the other side, I'm still terrified of that. And I think that there's some some emotional abuse that comes from the way I was raised. And my mom has not always, but as long as I can remember being overweight, my dad has had some weight issues, but they both put all of that on me. And so that idea of doing that makes me feel like just so nervous. Like how does that like, how often did you do that?

What were your takeaways or the benefits? Like, what was the thought process? I still do that because it's still hard. I mean, because like my body literally will change from week to week. I mean, I can have one day I wake up and like my stomach is so bloated, it looks like I've gained like £4 just overnight. And then I'm like, nothing fit, you know? And so, like, it's still like a daily struggle.

And I just have to remind myself that, like, I am doing the best that I can and I'm making mindful choices. And because I had to like, really stop labeling things because everything was always labeled as like good and bad, like this food is bad, this food is good. And I started falling like she was like a kid's nutritionist and she teaches like, like eating in color and, like, mindful eating.

And I like using that term better because I feel like when we put labels on things, it really limits, you know, how we view food. And then plus, like the way that our food is now, everything is like genetically modified or there's preservatives. It's like you really are just doing the best that you can because this is what we're given. So unless you're growing your own garden, like everything has shit in it and like it sucks, you know what I mean?

So I just had to really learn, especially like with raising kids that I don't want to carry that over. And I, I want to be mindful in the way that I talk about food. So like, even with, like sugars, they were talking about sugar instead of like saying, that's bad. I can give a description of what, like a bag of Skittles? Well, this is going to give us energy really, really quick and then we're going to have a crash later.

And then whereas like if we eat fruit, that's going to give us sustainable energy to last us through the day and we're not going to have that big crash. So we're not saying there's anything wrong with having Skittles. I'm just giving them like logic and reason. This is what it does to your body. And so, like, we still have those things, you know what I mean? And I think that's what life is about, balance.

And so when it comes to how you view yourself physically, you have to have grace and compassion because like you didn't you have these skin bags, You know what I mean? Like, we were just this is what we got, you know what I mean? And so my appearance has changed so much over the years. Like, I mean, I use our hair, look down on my butt.

And that was always like I felt like that was like my sole identity for, like, the longest, because that's how everybody, like, would identify me with, like, by my hair. And it became one of those things where I was just like, truly, like heavy, like not just in the physical sense, but like emotionally. I felt like my hair was carrying like a lot of pain. So, I mean, even just yesterday, I mean, I just shaved it because I was just like, I just want to feel free, you know?

But it's still like a daily struggle. I still look in the mirror and like, I grabbed my stomach and my size and it's more like I don't look at it is like, just does. I'm just like, that's interesting. Like, my body is like changing, you know what I mean? And is that, is that really what you're thinking or is that what you're trying to think?

I feel like it's a mixture of both because I'm still learning to have grace and compassion in the ways that, like my body doesn't look the same as it did like five years ago. You know, because like, I haven't been working out like that. I've lost a lot of muscle mass. Like, I went from being so proud that I could like leg press, like £365, and now I'm doing leg extensions and it's like £60, you know.

And so I have to, like, really be careful with my own side because I was diagnosed with major depression disorder and anxiety and stuff as well. And like, that's a slippery slope, you know? And if you have ADHD on top of that, like you were talking about, you can ruminate and ruminate and ruminate, ruminate guilt, guilt, guilt. And so I think I would be it would be very dishonest of me to say that I didn't have those thoughts about myself like, I think that that's just a part of being human.

Like, I don't I don't really feel like anyone is ever 100% happy, like every single day. I think that's an unrealistic expectation as far as like. Happiness is not really the. Goal. No, it's not. My wife and I had this conversation many times with I used to say, really, I don't care. I just want to be happy. And that's not at all like I want to live a life of purpose. I want to be purposeful. Wow. Yeah, I want to have intention. Those are the things that are important to me.

And I was like, There's going to be pain and there's going to be suffering. But I want I want to be living for something. I want to live for my children. I want to live to grow, you know, And that's the difference. It's like I just want to be happy. And I was happy spending 12 hours a day on the couch watching golf, watching TV, playing video games. And I was quote unquote, happy. Wow. But I mean, but looking back on that time was like, wow, there's a lot of ways home.

That's huge, though. I love that. I really do love that. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I just I appreciate your openness about that because, you know, I ask that question because I don't want anybody to think that you're ever fully there. Now, you know, a lot of it, especially when it comes to fitness, people say, you know, like, my body is amazing. Like, you know, I look at my body and think about how great it is and how much I love its function and, this and that.

And it's like you might think those thoughts. And I really I'm really glad that you do. But if you deny the fact those other thoughts ever come up, then you're you're not being authentic. No. And you're putting out a false a false narrative out there to people who are going to aspire to that. Right. And beat themselves up in their pressure. And that's what I really just want to avoid any more of that. Yeah. Adding that into into the universe of.

If I could talk to the positivity. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like that's the thing I and I think one of the things for me was like because especially he was always to like I had as a child and even as an adult, like my mother would make comments on my body. And so like I, I I was always like thicker like, you know, growing up in I had curves and so like as a white girl to having curves like that was just like another thing. And like for my mom, it was like shame.

And so she would always make comments about like, you know, your butt looks so big or, you know, just and it was like, it should have been a compliment, you know, same. But it coming from her, everything about my body was like nasty or shameful, like me shaving my vagina for the first time. You're so nasty. And I'm just like, what is nasty about that? Like, what is why do you. Have any say in so and it's just like everything.

If I wore certain clothes or any time I changed my like she will tell you like I don't like it And I'm like, well then don't cut your hair that way. You know. White Woman have been America's standard of beauty for a long time. And it has only become like, really like I'd say in the last ten years maybe has been widely accepted for a white woman who is on the thicker side to be considered wildly attractive. Yeah, and. I think that's crazy. Yeah, because, I mean, that's the natural.

But not just that many people's bodies. Yes. And the fact that we ever have like an ideal of what standard beauty was is really one of the most ridiculous thoughts that I have ever bought into. Even Marilyn Monroe was like, I think a size 14 or 16. Marilyn Monroe was just there. Yes. And so, like, it's wild to think that like how that God, they're even for body hair. Body hair was something that was always seen as a thing of beauty and was normalized.

And then white men, you know, at some point had I think it was in like the 1930 or maybe 20, it became a thing where they started like saying like, like women needed to shave. So then they started associating black people or people of color having body hair with like animals or whatever. And then they started to put white women on the covers with shaved armpits, and then promoting razors and things like that. And you don't want to look like this, you know, And so like that.

Just I wonder how much of that have to do with the razor industry. I'm sure. I heard something recently about about the creation of like the proposal. Now, that was like, I think it was Tiffany's kind of made the diamond ring a thing. Like, if you don't propose to your wife the diamond ring, then you don't love her, Right? And that was in the early 1900s. And it became this this lie that we all buy here. There's like, I don't want to do one part of things I don't love.

I come with the diamond ring. I'm of your objective. That is Exactly. And and how long is that? I mean, I feel like this the last five, ten years is kind of an awakening of a lot of things. But that's something that is no longer so widely accepted where you have to come with a ring that is what, like three months of your salary, right? Like Tiffany's got you.

Yeah, they I mean, they look like, say, your best marketing ever done because for almost 100 years they made people think that they had to spend up to $125,000 on a ring if they made that much in three months. Right. While in a while. Bow Wow. Yeah. I feel like the majority of our culture is really just perpetuated by fear of anything. I mean, whether you look at holidays or anything, everything is like if you don't have this, you know, your excluded or you. Know, the other. The other.

Yeah, the ring is very, very popular with society and that's. Yeah, I'm not going to say that it's going away any time soon like I other people about, but I felt like it was like, you're still using an android, you know, you got the green circle bubble. Like, I remember and you know, I didn't ever really think about what I was putting out there. Whenever I said that until recently, I was like, my God. I'm like, I'm othering people.

Like, I'm this person really likes to think that my friends are somebody who finds acceptance in you. But then I make fun of them for choosing a different path on this one thing, you know, although it's jokingly it's kind of toxic. Yeah, Yeah. Do it. Is that what I want to put out there? Yeah. And so I've had a look at that, so that's great.

You said something a while back, but I want to get back to you talked about kind of the small wins that you had setting boundaries in your abusive relationship. It's often looked at kind of some black and white, like either you leave or you're losing. Do you think that it was necessary for you to build a foundation of small wins, to have the have the kind of base build, to actually have a successful exit of that relationship? Well, it wasn't successful. It wasn't a successful.

It was a dangerous exit y. Meant to be out on the other. Side, you know, for sure. But I'm like, that is one of the most dangerous times is for victims of domestic violence is leaving. And I know before I say any of that, like the biggest mistake that you can make is tell a narcissistic abuser that you're trying to leave and I did that at least four times, you know, And so that was a huge mistake. And I think for me, because.

It tells why it's a huge mistake, because I know that there's a couple of things happening, but I want other people that don't have your, you know, training and education to understand well. Especially for like malignant and covert narcissist. Like they can be extremely dangerous and violent. The majority of narcissistic abuse is psychological. In only about 10% of abuse is visible in these relationships, which normally does not occur until a victim is trying to leave.

And so during that time, there are so many tactics that narcissistic abusers use to further control their victims, to wear them down emotionally. Sleep deprivation is one of them, which means that they will give you an circulatory word, solid conversations for 2 to 3 hours at a time to drain you physically, emotionally, so that way you don't have energy left to do anything else.

So like, I mean, and they'll wake you up at 12:00 at night, fling open the door, rip the covers off of you, turn the light on in the bathroom, and reduce the circulatory conversations to just leave you. And then the next day they will be like, Well, gaslight you about why you're tired and guilt you like if you're sleeping or taking a nap. Like I know one day this is like right before Christmas. You did that and kept me up until 3:00 in the morning.

And the next day he was led bombing the kids and was playing a board game that we had been saying that we were going to play all week. Love bombing real quick. Love bombing. Yes. Love bombing is a part of emotional abuse. Love bombing is a term that's also kind of like associated with intermittent reinforcement, which is where they will produce these grand gestures like they might act like they're getting better or they they're getting help promising to go on future trips.

Like I bought a trip to Disney World or going on a cat or book to cabin trip, because I know you've been talking about that for the last ten years. You know. Calling a therapist, calling. A. Therapist. I'm starting to work on myself now. The military is helping me. They put me on antidepressants and anything that they can say and do to re hook a victim. They want to make it look like they've heard your complaints and they're acting on it and being, quote unquote, better.

And that's one of the a mistake as well, is telling a narcissist the ways that they target you because they will weaponize, they weaponize anything that you say, anything you can say will be used against you, But particularly that if you tell a narcissist the way that they've wronged you, hurt you, abuse you, that will be heavily weaponized and they will start to it can happen to one or two ways.

It will further escalate abuse or it will further escalate the what's called like hoovering or hovering where they are, just like on you all the time, like I'm following you around the house, harassing you, following your car, where you're going, checking. Hey, did you make it to the store? Well, how long are you going to be there controlling your every move? And so I want again. So we kind of covered love bombing a little bit. What that looks like.

Yeah. You were telling me about how he kept you up till 3:00 around. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. The so he was doing that and he came in and I, I was like, wow, you guys are just like playing the game without me. And then he was just like, he was like, Yeah. I was like, I was wondering why you were in there sleeping. And I was like, I'm like, Are you serious? I'm like, You kept me up until 3:00 in the morning and I'm tired because I already have chronic illnesses like fatigued.

Anyway, he was like, Yeah, only because of like you just drive around so much all the time. You're always going places. You can get up from school, going to the grocery store, little things like that. And so, like that's a way of like gaslighting you. And then they like you're talking about like that didn't happen, you know, and then like, yeah, like me and the kids had so much fun, you know, things like that. Yeah. We really wanted you to come out there and play, but you were taking it up.

And so it's, it's a way to weaponize the ways that they've hurt you and continue to do that. And they will use the children in order to do that, especially if you have children with a narcissist. So, you know, there is no question it was like, yeah, did you feel like that foundation of the small ones created a successful exit? And so. Yes. It was not a successful. I know it was, but you were successful in leaving and do you feel like that would have been. I think I mean, I guess I do.

If you listen to the previous episode, we talked about how she did leave and end up coming back. Were you lacking that, that those boundaries that you had started to set in, those how you started to gain whenever you left the first time? absolutely. When I left the first time, this was 2008 and actually the previous year. So we chose to have another child in 2015 and I had my tubes tied that. We choose or did. We both chose like we, we it was a mutual agreement.

Like I took out my birth control, like I had always wanted two children. And it was one of those phases like they will say things to pretend to play like they want things or you're doing things together. And then when it happens, like they have no interest in raising their children or taking care of their children. And in fact, many narcissistic abusers are often jealous of like their own children. Like I had like a Facebook message when we first got together. And that's how we communicated.

Even when we were overseas. We the first three years of our life in Japan. And then again, my son was sick one time and I sent a picture and I was like, You can tell he's not feeling very well if he doesn't want me to hold him like all day. He was like, know. So and just having that type of reaction to any attention that was not on him, even with his own children. And so back to your question. I felt like having boundaries.

That was something I didn't even know was a thing because I never had was taught boundaries as a child. My mother overrode that all the time. Like I had no privacy or, you know, busting in my room or always, What are you doing in there? What are you doing in there? And I just I never had any privacy. That was your mom. And yeah, she is. She is more of like a there's different classifications of narcissists and there's all different types of narcissists. And my mother was very abusive as a child.

We can get into that later. But she's more of like a level one narcissist. And so I think the patterns that were shown to her as a child carried over with her. And I was just the one that she took that out on. And so, like now as an adult, she still is who she is, but she's not physically abusive. She's not emotionally abusive. And it's more of something that I've had to re parent now, you know what I mean? And set boundaries. And that's a whole healing journey. And so we'll go down that road.

I will briefly say, yeah, for anybody who's listening, if you don't know this, whenever you become adult and adult, you're supposed to start parenting yourself. Yeah, and this is something I never considered. I didn't I didn't ever think about that whole thought process until this year. And I'm consider myself a pretty progressive and, you know, and person who's, like really focused on my personal growth.

But I'd never thought about the fact that in the absence of your parents, it becomes your job to do what your parents were supposed to do and that they did it wrong. You got to you got to start further back. Then you got that wrong if they didn't do what you needed. I say that because, you know, for whatever reason, we got to have great, smart parents. And we're still holding them accountable. And I was going to I was like, some ask that as a narcissist.

Does your mom accept culpability for the things that you went through? She has to an extent. So it's it's she's participated in therapy conversations or sessions with us as a family because since we are living with them, it's very important for them to have the awareness, what my children mean, what they're going through, that they're still an active trauma and have the understanding of what I went through in that, you know, this is not about placing blame.

And I don't I don't need an apology or anything like that. I mean, I spent 30 years of my life blaming my mom for things and it wasn't serving me. You know what I mean? And I was because I was seeking that from her. I just wanted her to hear me and validate my pain. But I had to realize she wasn't capable of doing that. And so I needed to give that healing and like love to myself because I was searching for that outside of me. And so fast forward to now.

She does and is my mom is something she's always been capable of empathy. She's always had a great empathy and she's super, super helpful with other people. And now granted, like with narcissists, like that's a common thing, Like they're more kind, more helpful to other people outside of the house than they are with you. But I think now that I'm able to have clarity and even I mean, even just within the last week, I've had really beautiful childhood memories that have came up with my mom.

And so that's been very healing for me to like, because I was always when you're in active trauma, like you are your body blocks out, everything else, and that's all you can remember is the bad. Yeah. And so it was very important for me in my healing journey to remember the good things that I would get out photo albums and look at pictures so I could see my face, my little eyes, and like what I was feeling in that moment.

And now she's opened up about her childhood and she's in a more receiving space where she's able to see in the ways that that carried over, you know, and I think that's been such a beautiful thing. And she's getting less reactive and less reactive because as a child, it's not your job to parent your parents. And I've had to like really understand that she didn't have an example of what love what her mother never told her. She even loved her.

And like there was a situation that happened and it's like if you would try to address something with her, her immediate response is to get defensive and deflect. And I remember looking at her and I grabbed her and looked at her and I said, I love you. And I said, no one is attacking you. You don't have to get defensive. I love you, and I'm coming to you with love because I love you. That's why I'm telling you these things. So that way we can learn how to communicate in a healthier way.

And I hugged her and she just put her head on my shoulder and she got emotional and I said, You don't have to be in survival anymore. You don't have to be defensive because no one is attacking you. And it's okay to make mistakes. But like, having these conversations is important because this is how we course correct. This is how we literally change DNA is by having these uncomfortable conversations that I remember being in a therapy session.

And the therapist, my mom, you know, was disassociating and deflecting and she was like, she validated that. And she said, I can see that you're really struggling to stay present in this conversation and it's uncomfortable. And my mom got emotional and she was like, It is. And she said, because we didn't know that she was going through that. And so it was very hard for her to, like, accept that that was happening.

And especially with the kids and the things that my children had experienced at the hands of their father. And so that was very hard for her. And she was like I just feel so helpless because I didn't know and I didn't know what to do. And it's like her and my dad were saying, you know, they they kind of always had some type of like inner knowing, but they were afraid to say anything.

And they were like, you know, because we didn't want to upset you or, you know, we just wanted you to be happy and things like that. And that inner knowing was that you were in an abusive relationship. Yeah. Like they I think they knew from the beginning because of things that happened and that were in my own house with him. And, and then times like when me and a children would stay for a week at a time, you know, and so but never would say anything. Why, you know.

And so I think they had an internal one, but it was really hard to know what to do as a parent. And do we have a question? Yeah. Do you is is narcissism a state that you can move out of or is that something that you are a narcissist because it seems like you're mother is has moved on the spectrum of her narcissism and being able to be more mindful of other people. So you can have narcissistic traits that you have carried over from a parent. Her child relationship.

But true, NPD is often something that is not curable because it requires taking accountability. And that's why I like God. I think it's like maybe like two persons or a little bit more people get diagnosed with PD because nobody wants to go to counseling or therapy because that requires accountable. So do you think that your mom just had narcissistic traits that she was? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I don't I don't think that she has me at all.

And this is also something coming from my therapist who is a clinical clinically trained in narcissism, and she's a psychotherapist. And that's very important to when looking for a therapist. If anyone victim survivors have experienced anything like this, even if it's just from a parent, is making sure to find a therapist that is knowledgeable on narcissism because it is a slippery slope.

If don't, because there are many, even spiritual gurus, counselors, therapists that can really do a lot of damage to victims that way. They will further gaslight, self-blame. They will try to encourage victims to stay with abusers, to work things out, to reconnect with their parents and make it their responsibility. You just need to forgive. You just need to forgive. And so without having someone that has that type of training, you just have to be very careful.

And then if you're if there's people that are in relationships with narcissistic abusers and they get into a relationship like that and they don't have a therapist that is trained, they will manipulate those therapy sessions. And I mean, I had that happen in our first session because it was with a church counselor, you know. Yeah. And it was like I had religious indoctrination heavily to, you know.

But yeah, like it's been really healing for us as a family, especially being in my childhood home that caused me those significant pain to be in a place where love can grow. Yeah. And you can heal in small spaces. And I knew that if I could, I can bring healing in that space. The space that I was hurt in as a child. Then I could do anything, you know. And so I really let that feel me.

But I want to go back to your question about when I first was like, Yeah, I just want to you said finding somebody, a specialist in narcissism. I just want to make sure that we mean if you're dealing with any specific like, I don't know, like personality or like disease or mental problem or whatever. Yeah, I would always highly suggest finding a specialist.

Absolutely. Because, I mean, if you have cancer, you're going to go to the oncologist or if you just have you know, if you have general, like I don't feel great mentally. That's just like a general look. It's just like you just go get a physical from the general practitioner. So just find the person. That's right. And I was talking to Dan Moyer and last episode about finding somebody that you like.

And by like, I don't mean that is telling you everything that you want to hear, but somebody that you feel like you can open up to. And I'm going to hold you accountable for you and like, I know, like, man, it took me four sessions to be truthful in my therapy session because I was in such a state of denial, you know, And she already saw through me. And when I finally told her the truth that I was just like, I need to get help, I'm trying to leave. You know, she was like, there she is.

You know what I mean? Thank you. Thank you so you wanted to go back to. Yes. Yeah. And a disclaimer to you, like I am not a licensed psychotherapist, psychologist or mental health professional. I am just a certified narcissist, narcissistic abuse educator. So of my I think I didn't do. It pretty well. You're giving me some good information. Yes. So you said that you wanted to go back to the question that I asked and I wanted to say that before I. Yeah, I'm like ADHD.

So when I first left in 2018, so we had just had who I went from. So he had when we first got together, he was already married. He already had he actually had three children, he had a stepchild and then two daughters. And I didn't know that he was married. Whenever we got together, he wasn't living with her. He was living in a friend's house where somehow we mutually met because I was living with a friend at that time. And things just happened like super freaking fast.

I mean, like within seven months I was married and pregnant and moving to another country. Wow. Yeah. So his divorce went really quick as well? Absolutely. Yeah. He was like saying that he had already filed and he showed me the paperwork, but he had it like when filed the paperwork environment and, you know, making her out. She's crazy. She bipolar, she's which is very, very common in narcissistic relationships. They will always talk about their exes that way.

And this is a part of what is called triangulation. This is the drama triangle where they will play the persecutor, the rescuer, the victim, the persecutor, the victim. And it always interchanges whichever role they want to be in, whichever serves them in that moment. So they're he was playing both. He was admitting to ways that he had abused her and then talked about how they were abusive to each other.

And it's amazing the things that he would tell me that like, none of it was like a red flag for me because in my mind as an empath, I was like, look at him. He's taking accountability, he's wanting to do better. He's not going to cheat on his wife with the neighbor. Like, you know. Like. Let me ask you, how much of that do you think has to do with your autism? a huge amount. Do You do you think you had an earlier diagnosis?

You might have been more aware not to trust what every like every person says about you. I was I was very, very, very naive. Very naive and very vulnerable. And too, because of the relationship with my mom, like that was used as a weapon

because I'm an only child, you only have to see my parents. And and so I, I think too, with delayed processing in with conversations with narcissist when things happen so fast and then when you're also in a state of survival, like I yearned for that type of love. I just wanted to be loved, you know? I mean, I looked for relationships with other people's mothers because I didn't have that with my own either.

And so I entered into relationships that were also narcissistic and chaotic and dysfunction because that's what I knew. I was taught to associate love with abuse. Yeah. And this is because I love you. You know, this hurts me more than it hurts you. And that and with being on the spectrum, you feel like you internalize those things even further. absolutely. Do you think that being on the spectrum kind of makes you the perfect victim for narcissistic abuse?

I think that this question that came up before I'm going to tonight, we're talking about it in our podcast, because there's a lot of people that there's a lot of like mental health professionals that I have seen this and they all say, you know, you got to work on like what attracted you to that person, you know, so you can stop attracting people and I feel like that's a very thin line that we we have to be so careful with because that can be associated with victim blaming.

And so while I do feel like it's important to take responsibility for your healing journey and notice things that are not serving you, I don't ever want to let. Victims and survivors think that there's something within them that attracted them to an abuser because abusers are perpetrators, they are predators, and so they know exactly what they're looking for. So I think that for me, maybe it's less about what attracted them to you, because that feels very plain. These may be more.

What attracted you to that? Like, I feel like that distinction is very important because there are some, some pretty strong signals that are given early on that, you know, like alpha male behavior that a lot of people, a lot of women can be attracted to that If you're not careful and what you're actually looking for, you're looking for abuse signals. Well, and that's a part of the nervous system being conditioned to associate that with love. Yeah. So that's that is not a fault of your own.

That's a fault of your childhood upbringing, of not having a secure attachment style. So it's very disorganized. Your nervous system is searching for that release. Dopamine and cortisol. Where's the highs and lows? Okay, he's talking shit to me one day and the next day. I love you so much. So those are those little doses of niceness and breadcrumbs and leaving you a little trail to keep you on the edge of hope. You know what I mean?

And so when we first got together, there wasn't, any signs like that within that, within the first month, first couple of months, the signs that I see now, I didn't see them because they were so subtle but yet so obvious at the same time, like I have, you know, Facebook messages from when we first got together. And because my Facebook or his Facebook used to be my Facebook that he caused me to create a joint account within the first month we were together over.

I'm sorry, that that seems like a pretty. I mean, I'm like, now he's so caring. He just wants to be with me. Yes. No, your true self is like girl, right? And so, like, right. I definitely don't ever want to become black. Like, yeah, I, I, I'm so sad for you then, but I want, I want to encourage people to know better so that doesn't happen. That's why we're having this conversation.

So, like, it's so hard to like, say that wasn't obvious, but also saying like, I understand that you didn't see it at that time. Yeah, I wasn't in a conscious state of mind. You know, like when you're in a state of unconsciousness, like when most people say, like, I have an attorney say to me, Yeah, but you did, but you didn't know better. And I'm like, But I didn't because if I did, I would have done differently.

So I was doing the best with the information that I had at the time, and I didn't have the wisdom and the educational tools to know better. So to say that is really invalidating because no one that's in a conscious state of mind would actively choose that, you know, to. Add something to that. Because I think it's really important to say that you know, everybody says no better, do better. I like I believe that, but also as a neurodivergent, that's not necessarily true.

Executive function is is a real thing. And my ability to know better and to do better do not always. Connect, know. Like I want I want to say that if I know I'm going to do better, I promise I'll say that. And often I do. But when I don't, I have to have grace for myself. And I ask it from the who love me as well. But it's important for me to understand that I'm not always going to do better. Yeah. But that's also part of knowing better.

And doing better is like having grace, because I know that just because I know better, I'm not necessarily going to automatically do better. It takes a. Lot of repetition. Yeah, Yeah. But like, when you're, you're about abusers though, like the difference between, like apologies is like the person is validating your emotion. They're taking accountable for the ways that they hurt you.

And it's not they're apologies aren't self-serving which with narcissist when they apologize is I'm sorry I'm such a piece of shit. I'm sorry. I just can't do anything right. It's never about you. It's never about the ways they hurt you. They're sorry that they got there. In that way, the victim is the one that is consoling the abuser. And that is so while, like, one day I sit on the. And he came and just slap me in my face and thought it was like, funny.

And because you have a very sadistic way of playing and I always wanted to like, play fire and things like that. And I've already had set boundaries. I'm like, I don't do that. I don't play like that. It's not fun for me. And that turned into literally a three our conversation and we just went in circles and it just became like, you just hold on to everything. You just hold on to all of my past and you just can't see me for who I am today.

And I'm like, But that's the part of keeping you in that cycle because they want you to have an emotional reaction so they can be like, Look at how you're acting, you know? And I have voice recordings of that of him literally saying, Wow, look at how you're acting right now. And I'm like, How am I acting? And he's like, You're being so loud. And I'm like, I'm literally talking to you now, you know? And like, you just it makes you feel crazy.

But that's the point. Yeah. They want you to feel crazy. They want you to feel like you're the one that's in the wrong, that they're not. That's what gaslighting is to. To make you think that everything you've experienced didn't happen. Like you could go from admitting that he did something one day and the next week. What are you talking about? That never happened. And you're like, We just had a conversation about it. Like, I don't remember that, you know?

And I'm like, Wow. There's something I struggle with as I do that all the time. With ADHD, too. It was like, I'll say that, yeah, that makes sense. I'm sort of that happy. Yeah. And then we'll have another conversation about something, someone I'm like, I don't remember saying that different. I know that is different. But, you know, I want to ask how much grace do you think you should give your past narcissistic abuser?

Like, do you think do you think they deserve I mean, everybody deserves forgiveness in yourself. But like, does he deserve actual act of forgiveness? That's a that's a hard conversation that is I think I've really struggled that because one thing with forgiveness is that I've learned it's not for you. It's for me. Because I feel like it has to be a choice. And I think that people should choose to do with what feels good for them.

I do feel like acts of forgiveness not just for the not for the person, but for yourself. Acts of like when you're not forgiving yourself, that's more detrimental to your health than anything. And it is. I. I feel like it's also a part of like allowing the other person to still have control. And I don't I don't want any part in that. I deserve to be free from that.

And I deserve to like, break those chains and allow myself to fully just be loved in the ways that I'm deserving of and like I don't need an apology from you and I don't need that. But this is a lot more empty. Do you. Think. That he ever had a choice to be somebody different? I do. I think that. Well, as always, it's really, really hard to dissect those because it's a family system. His mother very narcissistic.

She's very, very psychologically abusive and not just with him as a child, from what I know, but with me, with our children as well. Very manipulative and a lot of narcissistic mothers that have boys have a very emotional incest relationship with their sons. It's very they have a very is an enmeshment. So they kind of like look to their sons as like is their job to fulfill emotions for them regulate especially if they're single moms.

You they might dress their boys in ways that they would see Roman dress or whatever, putting them in modeling, like for doing roles. And so again, everything comes back to the her and how the child is serving her needs. And when you don't serve those leaving, you're rejected and you're given the silent treatment, you're isolated.

And so for him, I spent a lot of our relationship trying to justify his abuse and that grace and compassion and hope, you know, because those little glimpses of love bombing or doses of niceness, that's what kept me saying because I'm like, there he is that I kept trying to see him for something that he wasn't. And That's how you get trapped very early on is the love on me there. Everything that you could ever want. You're opening corridors. They're taking you out days.

They're loving you and giving you affection and all of these things. And then they're. Saying all the right things. Saying all the right things as men and when you get in it, it's the complete opposite. And then it's like, who was it? So for me, when I was in a whole nother country and completely isolated like, what was I going to do? Not have any friends there? I don't know anyone. You know, I don't have a cell phone at that time, you know what I mean? And so you were talking about childhood.

So there's a social splitting that occurs like this kind of applies to Teslas like three, six, 9 a.m. on the. Nikola Tesla line. Yet I was not. So. Like the car. What it's like. So there's different developmental stages that happen like not only on a neurological level but on spiritual level as you develop as a child and like attachment styles like 0 to 3 months is a very important stage of where the child learns that they have a safe connection when they cry.

Are their needs getting met or are they cry it out method or are they being left alone? Are they then? Then they learn not to cry, you know, things like that. And so as those splitting in occur and it usually happens around the age of like between seven and nine is really when a child start developing their sense of self, they are trying to form their own identity outside of their parent. Or when you have a narcissist as a parent, you are an extension of them. You are not yourself.

You're not allowed to be yourself. You're not allowed to have your own identity because you are an extension of them and you have to be and do and say in that how they want you to act. And if you're not those things, well, then I'm going to reject you. And if you don't fulfill, those needs for me, I'm going to reject you. So it's all a cycle of I love you when you do the things that I want and then I reject you when you do the things that are not what I want.

So the cycle of rejection, abandonment, love. And so I think. Like you said as a child, if you are the child of a narcissist, which I'm increasingly sure that. I am, yeah. You will find that that doesn't stop just because you're an adult. No, I live in my last conversation with my mother was she was very, very, very upset of me because I wouldn't vaccinate our kids against COVID.

And she I told her, like, hey, we're going to have to have stuff that we disagree on and need to be able to move on because I don't want this to be what defines a relationship. And she started yelling at me and I was like, We always do this. We always make everything about you like. And she's like, now you're going to start talking about how crappy your childhood was. And, you know, she just was really upset. And then she said, You know, if I could change anything about you, I would change.

And that crushed me. Your mom's was love you unconditionally. Like, of course we say things and you know that we don't necessarily mean, but thinking of saying it's okay to change your child like I would. I remember what she said because I shut down and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And she screams more and she hung up on me. Then she attempted suicide that night. Which is very common. Now, that sounds about right.

Comment lines. Right up. And I told my stepfather that it was his next to her medication. He is also he has autoimmune diseases. So she takes a lot of medication. So it's believable. But I know for a fact that it was you know, it was a stop. And then she wouldn't talk to me. Like I tried and. Gave it to me for three months and then reached out on my on the weekend. It was my daughter's birthday, Easter, and I keep forgetting it. But there was another big thing happening.

That's the weekend she decides that Texans like. I would like to try to start, you know, reentering this relationship. And I'm like, convenient. There's a bunch of stuff happening about other people and now's the time that you want to you want to reach out and. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's hard. It's very hard to get somebody who's been such a big part of your life now because of the amount of toxicity they bring to the relationship. And, you know.

That's a whole thing. And I want to really commend you for that because it's a lonely road. It's a lonely road. And I think that you know why that made me emotional. It was emotional for me to. Think about it. People don't understand why when you have to make an active choice to, like, remove someone your life that you love so dearly and you want so bad to have a connection with them. And that's one of the hardest bravest choices that you have to make because it's about you and your choosing.

You and people always use like the loyalty thing, but their family but their blood with their family with their blood. And it's like that is never an excuse to tolerate mistreatment. But that has become the staple in our society, especially in religious indoctrination. You know, like but it's your mom. You got to respect your elders and you got to do this. And it's like, no, you don't.

You don't have to respect anyone that is mistreating, you know, And that is why that's how how people end up in these abusive relationships so easy to is because that's how we're conditioned as society from day one to tolerate mistreatment because people are older than us. It's like Matilde, big or small, you're right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it. And so you're made to feel so small, even through adulthood. That interview is like, I can't do anything I can't think of.

I have to tolerate this because she's my mom. And what I agree with about religion is that your elders do deserve respect. Yeah, that is I mean, it's but it's like it's an exhaustible thing. Yeah. It's something that is not infinite. You don't get infinite respect.

I'm not sure with respect because you're an elder, I'm going to respect you because your mom, I'm going to listen to you and try to take your advice and give it a higher amount of weight than other peoples until you show me that we don't deserve that. Yeah. And as you continue to show me that you don't deserve that. You get less and less of my respect, right?

It's not perpetual. No. And that's, that's where I feel like that toxicity of religion is often, you know we're like, held up is that they want to say no, you need to keep respecting them as if they've done something to earn that respect. Correct. And that's even like relationship when you do marriage, because I stayed in my relationship for so long and went back because of a lot of that religious indoctrination.

I don't want to have a separate my house and I don't want my kids to grow up without a father and like all these things. And then, you know, like even when I was like seeing somebody else during the time were separated, we were still married. And this was the first time I was trying to leave. He had already been having affairs and like that was very common because one thing they'll do as well is like they'll an affair and then not even tell you until two years later.

Well, then what are you going to do about it? And I Chaves and, and he had a porn addiction and all this stuff and like I guilted myself for so long for also having an affair during that time. And I had to keep it a secret because obviously I was trying to leave. And secondly, you already knew that he was having it there, you know what I'm saying? And so but I had such extreme because I was like, this goes against every moral and value that I have.

I never cheated on anyone in my life, but I'm like, I deserve to feel unconditional love. I deserve to be treated with kindness, you know? And that's what I was getting, you know. And so whenever I leave and I experience unconditional love, safety, joy, gentleness, ease, I knew that that was possible, that because my nervous system was so addicted to dysfunction and chaos, he felt like, what is this now? Where's where's the chaos? Where's the dopamine? You know.

Like I'm going to push back just a little bit because like, I believe the institution of marriage is something that is holy and has to be respected. But I don't think that means that you can't leave all you can't start over. I've been unfaithful to my wife. Yeah. And it is the worst thing I've ever done. Yeah. I wish that everything I could take it back. But she stayed with me and work on building, rebuilding our relationship. Something that is really important to me. But I don't.

There were certain things I wasn't getting to, even if it wasn't my fault. I don't think it's okay to go outside of your marriage to try to find that validation until you actually going to be ready to get married. Yeah. And I think that because of the ability to the acceptance of like, well, I deserve this, sometimes it leads you to just stay in the marriage while you go seek that thing. And I think that's worse. It gets worse for you.

It's worse for the person who can who's the other who can't get all of you. They can never get out of it because you still belong to somebody else, especially to like him. You belong to him. So how can you ever really give yourself to someone else? Whenever deep to him, he owns you and he's going to keep acting like this. And to me like. And you know, in my marriage, I gave myself to my wife. So I do belong there. She gave herself to me. But it doesn't mean that I exercise ownership over her.

It's that I am hurt. That's that's a decision I made. That's not going to change. So, yeah, I, I stick with that. I belong to somebody else. So how am I going to, you know, engage in a relationship to any sort of like fullness whenever I still belong to somebody else? Right? I need to make the decision to leave. And that's a very brave and hard decision. But I don't. And I think that you should try to seek happiness while you're going through that.

But I think if you are engaged in that relationship, it disrespects the institution of marriage and then maybe that's okay with you. But for me, that's something that is. Well, I don't I don't ever think that it's okay. And it wasn't something that I was actively seeking, you know, like it was a high school friendship and. Her and I were literally had always just remained friends.

And so this was something that was built on like decades of friendship and literally just happened out of nowhere through conversations or talking for hours and hours and hours and just develop a connection and I was already so emotionally tapped out as well. Like I had, you know, I went from having one child to four a month. You know, his older children came to live with us. And how old?

Well, you know, they had came and lived with us on and off, but I had, you know, pretty much known and raised them since they were six and seven and they came in 2015.

So the same month that I had my second child, I went from being a parent to 1 to 4 and with no help, like I was a single parent in a two parent household and like my ex-husband never went to a doctor's appointment and never been to anything, never been no parent teacher conference, Worthington IEP meeting, never been involved in anything like that. You know, I'm I'm having a baby wrapped around me doing the dishes, vacuuming while he's playing video games, you know.

And so we were an inconvenience for him. And he like verbally that like in therapy. And I remember when I was going to have my hysterectomy, I had a lot of complications with my blood for like six months straight after. So we had to have an ablation done and then I had a hysterectomy because my uterus was completely retrofitted, which means it was laying flat. It was 90% flat. So it was causing a lot of pain and hip pain. And then I ended up having a cyst on my ovaries.

And so I ended up having a hysterectomy and so that was the third time that I had been completely cut out because I had two C-sections prior to that. And I was sitting in the bathtub and this was the night before my surgery. And he came in and he was like, I hope you're not going to come home and be a fucking bitch. And I was like, What? And he was like, Yeah, I've been talking to everybody about work or talking to everybody at work about. Your surgery.

And I heard that your hormones are going to change a whole bunch. And he was like, You better not come in, come home and think that you're just going to be a bitch. And I was like, Why am I? Then he started talking about sex drive and like we were already having complications because half of the time it was spousal rape, which I didn't know that at the time. And so I thought that me laying in the bed crying was okay, even though my body felt like it's not okay, it's not okay, it's not okay.

And when you say no, no is a complete sentence and it's not okay, Wow, that was really hard because I didn't I didn't even have that type of knowledge that was even a thing until I was at the domestic violence shelter. And they had to explain that. And I just remember crying because it was just like a flash flood of every single time that that had happened. I had to acknowledge that that's what it was, and I just didn't want to listen.

It's a very deep and touching and thank you for sharing that, first off. But I want to know, like, do you think, one, you were able to survive that better because of the ability to disassociate your autism and also, do you feel like it was harder for you to understand that that wasn't okay because of the the difficulty in picking up not like, quote unquote, normal social behavior? I think I think both of that.

I think as a child, when I was being abused by my mother, I would disassociate you know, I would find my happy place. I was disposable or. Yeah. And that when that was occurring, you I just remember laying there and thinking of anything that I could I would think of waking up on a Saturday being an elementary, and I knew it was Saturday because my dad was up early mowing the lawn and I could hear the lawn mower come by my window and I'd immediately get up and grab a popsicle fight with him.

So like, I would always have these, like very just real memories come up for me. And I would just and the next thing you know, it was over. And then he. Get back, go to your happy. Place. Next thing, get up and go to the video game. And then actually nothing ever happened, you know? And so and it's it wasn't always like that. There was majority a lot of our times was absolutely consensual, you know.

But at any time if I said now or stop or times I didn't want to or he's trying to wake me up in the middle of the night and I say no, like that wasn't allowed, you know, And then if he didn't do it, then, I mean, I would be given the silent treatment for a week and I would be threatened that I just need to find somebody else because I need a break, you know?

And I was being compared to porn stars and my body was always being compared to like Alexis, Texas and like all of these I mean, when we got together, he had literally two sets of birds that were porn, you know, and would openly watch it in front of me. And always threaten to leave, which is a very common thing. They will be little you. They will pick out you.

And if you're not, if your life doesn't revolve around them, they will threaten to leave you to find somebody else, because that way you're like, No, I'm sorry. Like apologizing for their behavior. Was was that the first sexual assault with you? That was most of. Them or no. One was. Mom was the first time. The first the I had been sexually assaulted in high school. But then the one that stands out to me was actually by my ex-boyfriend that I dated for three years in high school.

And this was like a year after we had broken up. And he was also a narcissist, which I didn't know that. And I mean, I have journal entries from the time that we were together from high school, and it just broke my heart reading those last year. No, I hadn't read my journal in years.

And just seeing the push and pull and it was a year after and we I had went to a party and I was actually dating someone at that time and that was the first relationship that I had ever experienced that was not abusive, Like it was one of the most amazing relationships, felt like it was like years, but it was only eight months and it was just incredible. And he had run out of town and I went to a party and he was there and I had no intention on talking to him.

Like, in fact, it was like the complete opposite. Like, I don't really want to be around him, but he, you know, grandiose, very likable. We had music in common. He was a rapper and we always connected through music and he was like a really great lyricist. He was super funny and then it just became like, Hey, do you want to come back to my house? Like we can talk and things like that, you know?

And I was like, No. And very persuasive and like, no, like real like I talked about music, you know, doing fine together. And then the house was just like, right down the street from he lived. And so I went and more alcohol was involved. And I remember I told him, I said, I just want to go to sleep. And I wanted to lay on the couch. And he just kept insisting, no, like, I'll go on the couch. You can lay in my bed.

And then next thing you know, like he's just on top of me, and I am so intoxicated that I can't move and I just remember like tears rolling down my face and me asking him to stop. And he's just like and just like, whispering, It's okay. And then I wake up the next morning and I had like, bruises in between my legs and I remember calling and there was a police officer that we grew up in junior high with, and I called him because I didn't know what to do.

And I was scared to report it because immediately after I had asked him what happened, and he was like saying that we had sex. And I was like, No, that's not what happened. And he was like, Well, no one's going to believe you. And it just continued. And so I was really scared. And then because I had and this even was with my ex-husband, because I already knew the way that society had demonized black men over decades. You know, their animals are violent. They're all of these things.

And then felt guilt like like if I report what happened, what's going to happen to him, And he was his job. And then like all of that mindset you were worried. About supposed to be like, I mean, which is a valid thing to think at any time, right? You know, does he deserve to possibly get killed because the police come to a situation? Yeah. Maybe not. But that wasn't your problem. It wasn't. And I carry that for so long.

And he was like, you know, I can't force you to do anything, but I would encourage you to file a report. You Know? But now that I've done so much research around these cases and stuff, I mean, it's it's very hard to get accountability even with with that. You know what I mean? There's majority of rape cases get so backlogged, you know, and the same with reporting violent, you know, whenever I tried to leave last year, the day that I left, he he had already been out of town that weekend.

And without his use of his house, which is a new old supply, he had been having an affair with this lady for like three years. And I didn't know that where he was. And I just like, had a hunch I had heard him talking to her on the phone and I was trying to remove the remainder of my stuff out of the house. I had already made it known that I was leaving because he had actually came to me in December and was trying to play that game because I had stopped seeing my therapist for like three months.

He backtrack that summer of 2021. He had deployed for four months, was supposed to be gone for four months. And it's like when he left the val just like lifted like the energy in the house, shifted like pins were coming out of the rooms. Like, I mean, it was just like we could breathe, like we weren't suffocated. And I was able to think for myself and have clarity. And I was just like, my God, I stayed. I'm back, you know?

And it was just like and I remember telling him that I wanted to leave and things like that. I was like, trying to get my shit together. And that's when the bombing started. He was married. My behavior, like saying things like, I can't believe that I can love again. And I'm meditating and I ordered this book off of Amazon and all of the right things. And I was really trying hard to stay in my boundaries of like,

that's not my responsibility. Like, I love you, you know, And I, I really want that for you, like you deserve, you know. And I was being super supportive in that because I was believable. I mean, just like affirming me, giving me affirmations, like all different types of things and you're such a great mother, you know, not just to our kids, but, you know, to my older girls and like you, to everything.

And like, all of these things, like everything that I. You would want to hear, like as a spouse, just like and and then he threatened to kill himself. That was the second time that that had happened. And he told the military he wanted to take his roommate gun and shoot himself. And so his roommate had to go tell the supervisor and he was sent home early. He's supposed to be gone for two months. And I just remember my world shattered like, what am I going to do now? Like, now he's coming back.

And so he literally had bought like a trip to Disney World and all of these things, trying to get me to say like mode the word love in the backyard. So I bought a bicycle, like we went on bike rides and tried to get back in with my therapist because we had actually had two previous therapy sessions and one was a family session with so the children were involved in and that was awful. Like all of the children were in tears immediately.

They were terrified to speak in front of him and they had to go to separate rooms to talk to her. He was very honest that he didn't want his kids. He didn't want this life. He just wants the body build and play video games and that were an inconvenience. And she was trying to get him to understand how the children were feeling. Like, do you understand that her he was not there for the kids were in the room and he was like watching his PlayStation games on his phone.

And so that was really devastating. And then we had another session and that's when he was like, Yeah, like, I want to go to therapy session with you. And then we went and it was like on opposite you were saying like the same things. And I think that was a hard awakening for me because she was like repeating to me what he was saying and I didn't want the most dangerous times is for victims of domestic violence is leaving.

And I know before I say any of that, like the biggest mistake that you can make is tell a narcissistic abuser that you're trying to leave. Yeah, And I did that at least four times. Hello and welcome back to the Nicole and Eric. Bruce Alexander. I'm your host, Bruce Alexander. But some time aside right now and stay locked in because this is going to be one of the most interesting investigations that authenticity I've done yet.

Marilyn Penny feather this here and we're going to get into surviving domestic abuse, trying to make it in the music industry. Contact for past lives and advocating for Neurodivergent was much more after today's report. Today, I want to think about the difference between authenticity in honoring yourself and just failing to grow. The last time you said That's just the way I am with someone on the receiving of your unit's being hurt. Is that who you are?

A person who hurts people unapologetically and has no desire to evolve. This might seem like obvious behavior to many, but this used to be me, and this is what I grew up with. The phrase that was the soundtrack to my childhood. I don't write the news. It is reported as I see it. That was code for I just said something out of pocket for you and you don't deserve an apology. It took a lot of intentional work for me to unlearn that view of authenticity. This is just who I am. Deal with it.

If you are listening to this show and still applying that principle to your life and relationships, I accept you as you are on a journey. But I challenge you to reject the idea that we are ever done. Take some time to reflect on your existence and the relationships in your life and be brutally honest about the quality of what you find are the connections that are important to you suffering because of your stunted growth.

It is never too late to take accountability for your fault and the decline in or failure of a relationship. I can't promise you any resulting outcome for those relationships, but I can guarantee that you clean up your emotional litter and continue to keep your side of the street clean. The quality of your relationships that you maintain will start to improve, as will the quality of the connections you attract. I would love to hear from the authentic audience.

Tell me if you have embraced the boundless nature of personal growth or if you have gotten stuck in the This is just who I am. Thank you. Go to the Episode 24 Reflection Post on Instagram. Facebook Friends are LinkedIn Authentic Identity Management.

If you are tired of hurting people but need help getting out of that detrimental philosophy type stuck in the comments section and I will take it in contact you and set up a free 30 minute consultation to learn how I can help you start living more authentically if you love the space we are creating or want to help advance my mission of making the world. A safer place where authenticity.

There are few ways you can support the show Cleaver view and tell me what you think is great needs work or what you would like to see more of in the show. Follow the show on your favorite podcast platform or on the platform to use. Use that share in an episode of this show to someone you care about or post about it in your social media feeds and then your stories. These are all free ways to support the authentic mission.

If you are comfortable being a spokesperson for authenticity, you can be a financial backer of the authentic mission by going to Patreon and searching authentic Eric Garner and signing up for membership. I am dedicated to the work of this mission long term, but I would love your help and more quickly making the world a safer place to show up as yourself. My guest today has a distinguished honor to be the first time guest with an asterisk.

Taylor, though, did make a second appearance for a very special I'm so 20 where I took the guest seat in the Austin Air studio and he pirated my host time. If you haven't, check that out. Put that next on your playlist right now.

It was such an engaging conversation and a great opportunity to get to know me, my motivation and my mission a lot better than any other first, as guest, as one half of the Marvelous Masonic Moguls podcast is back today to talk about her story as an individual, and this is guaranteed to deliver some fresh content. But I am definitely not a person for ADHD.

Autistic Disabled musician, Yoga practitioner, Abuse survivor, Home Mother, educator, advocate, visionary, Reiki healer are some but not all the way. As Marilyn identifies, she characterizes herself as a jack of all trades and a master of many. I know already that Marilyn and I don't agree on everything, but I loved her energy so much. She carried that with her from the very start.

As a fellow age, dear, I appreciate her ability to be well versed in so many facets, but even more so, I appreciate her support of the authentic mission through her own podcast and enthusiastic support of my podcast and our use of social media as a platform. She is actively aligned with the objective, making the world a safer place to show up as yourself. They were in the intro there because I am positive we are going to use up every moment of my two hour recording window

into a conversation. I can't to get into it. Welcome to the show, Marilyn. Hi. So excited to be back. Yeah, I think. There's an applause, but not I don't know. If I to be like, Hey, I love you. I'm in a lot. So before we get too deep into it, I'm very happy to have you back on. But let's start with you telling me in your own words, how you spent the majority of your time. Why do you think everybody on the show and really who you are? wow. That's a loaded question. Okay.

I have to break that down. So right now, I am spending a lot of my time healing. I escaped a 12 year domestic violence relationship last year, last January. And so it's crazy to think we're coming up on two years already. Like it's went by really fast. But that has been my sole mission, is to heal. And I don't feel like anyone can ever truly be completely healed. And I don't think that that's the goal because then that that would mean that there's nothing left like what's after you're healed.

You know what I mean? Like what happens when you get to that destination? So I feel like there's always ways for us heal and evolve. Like you said, ways to transform and transmute, hate our energy. And so that is really what I've been dedicating myself to, is just healing and resetting my nervous system.

When you are in a chronic state of survival mode and living in that type of abuse, when your environment is primarily chaos and dysfunction, your body goes into a hyper, like you're more hyper aware, you're in hyper vigilance, you're in survival. And so that sends your body into like a sympathetic state and your nervous system can't regulate. So I'm trying to get back to the parasympathetic state and relax so which is easier said than done.

You've done that now that you're trying to get back from your upstairs brain down into pretty much. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, but aside from that, like I did last year, I got put on disability and it's something that I was fighting for two years for, ended up having to get an attorney to help because I was denied the first two times and I have lived the majority of my life since I was like 17, 18 years old with chronic pain.

And I started out like migraines, like very early on, Like I remember being in junior high and like, calling to come home because like, my migraines were so severe and then it just kind of like progressed to having like numerous surgeries for different things, being in a car accident that left me with nerve damage and then as a result of being in violent relationships like that, is really hard on the immune system.

And so it develops like chronic illnesses such as like fibromyalgia or a And so I knew that I needed help, you know, and I struggled with working because like as an ADHD or like it is really difficult to work, like it's very hard to find a job. And I know everyone's experience is different for me.

I always struggle with having jobs like I've had like a million jobs since I was like 15, you know, grocery, Walgreens, I will say like one of the Spanish jobs I had was I managed a shoe store, I managed Journey's, and that was really that was something I could do. Like I really felt strong and confident because I got to do things that I never thought I was capable of doing. And I was able to just like myself, which was really awesome.

And you get to connect with different people every day and selling shoes, you know? So and also that discount. Or yeah, it was like 40% off. So my game was strong, but then, you know, I got the Reebok covers sewn up, were like my paycheck with. But yeah, it was really difficult. So I was like always wanting to do what I wanted to do. And I love sing. I grew up in the church and then I, I had always in hair.

My mother had done hair, but she wasn't like, well versed in like natural curly hair or anything. And because I grew up in the black community, like, I was just so, like, fascinated with black hair, natural curly hair. So, like, I really wanted to learn how to do that. So I had a friend that taught me how to do cornrows. I think I was in like seventh grade and then I just like 1010, ten year. And then I ended up getting my I'm a licensed hair braider. I took that test, I think it was in.

And then I worked in the salon for a little bit, which was really overstimulating and emotionally taxing. I think if I would have like been in my own little suite, it would have been different because like the vibe that I wanted to create was like, just really chill, you know? I was always playing like Erykah Badu or Jill style. Like things like that is very like chill.

And it's really it was really difficult and challenging being a white person in an all white salon who primarily just served black clients. So like that was really difficult for my clients as well. So it just didn't really feel like a safe environment all the time. So I just started doing house calls and going to people's houses where it was just more comfortable. And then, you know, it just got to the point when COVID happened and I just I couldn't anymore.

So my health was like really declining. And so, yeah, I got on disability last year and that has really given me an opportunity to rest. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, and just do what I need to do to take care of myself because I knew that I needed that to be able to, one, financially provide for myself and my kids. I am getting out of my relationship. And so my mind isn't right now without us. And I want to be in your relationship personally. I want to make sure we set the proper framework. Sure.

So can you tell me how you define authenticity? I think I would define that as just like my brain wants to say, I like showing up as the highest version of yourself. And I think that sometimes it's hard to get there because we don't see ourselves there, especially like if you've been gaslighted a lot, so you don't really know how to, like, trust yourself or believe that you're capable of those things.

But I do think that if you can envision what your highest self looks like and I've been able to do that a lot with like doing shadow work and journaling has really been helpful for that. You'll eventually get there, you know what I mean and just like having just like you talk to your inner child or past versions of yourself or whatever, I think when you can also talk to the highest version of yourself, like what would she say? What would she say?

You know, how how do you think that they would speak to you when they speak life into you? Why would they be uplifting and encouraging, or would there be a lot of doubt, those negative talk that I can't do this or I'm not capable or I'm not in that I don't think your highest self would look like that, you know? And so I really had to like, put myself in that place to be like being like, I don't want to remain a victim my whole life either. So, like, when do I get to show up for myself, You know?

So you think. Authentic. Your authentic self has a lot more to do with aspiration, reality. I mean, can you reframe that? Yes, I can, because I think the thing it's not real is not correct. Yes, it's. More about aspiration than perception, like what you're currently perceiving as who you actually are. You think it's more about who you want to be and trying to, you know, trying to have a conversation with that person.

Not necessarily because I feel like your highest self is who you've always been. But we forget through conditioning and through, like through society telling us we have to conform what we should and shouldn't be. Environments you were raised in. So I think it's the person that you've always been.

So it's more about like returning home to that person, like a homecoming, you know And so and I feel like the closer and closer you get, then you do start to remember our name like I have always been this I am worthy. This is my birthright. I've always been deserving of this kind of love. And so it's really just about remembering. I think. I think that that really helps for me to reframe. It. That way. That you've always been there. Yeah, it's just getting back that right.

I love. That piece. So how would others describe you both directly and incorrectly? I question And so you can tell me why you hate that question. You can talk about that too. Yeah, I think because I've always struggled with like talking about myself. So and it's like a I don't know, I've always struggled with giving myself like self praise or, anything like that, because that wasn't the environment that I grew up in either.

And so it's really about like unlearning that, that I'm allowed to celebrate myself. I'm allowed to feel good about myself, I'm allowed to be confident. But I think for women in particular too, it's like such a double edged sword because it's like, you know, you should love yourself and self love and you should be confident and you should love your body and you should do all these things. And then when you do start to do those things, why are you being so cocky?

Why are you why are you being so self absorbed or she just loves to show herself off or she just loves it and it's like, So when do I get to, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, questions like that have like it's been hard to talk about myself. That's something I'm working through. I would say, yeah, I don't know. She's loving. She is kind, she is weird and outgoing and loves to just play. She's giving is centric. Maybe talented like, well, hers. And do you identify with all those descriptions?

I do. So I think that's like a part of feeling right now. I feel like in this moment, really just like saying those things out loud to myself, knowing that those things are part of me and not all or one define who I am either. You know what I mean?

So I think that I'm like, I'm really embracing the idea that that those conversations of how how would somebody else speak to me both in this situation, somebody who loves me and knows me, how they speak to me and then talking to yourself that way, because I know that I am definitely terrible about negative self. And the effect that it does to you is like it's like the person who is supposed to love you the very most is giving you just terrible terrible criticism. Yeah.

And your body can't really tell the difference. No. So you're wearing that. And so it's I think it's really so important to think how would someone who loves me describing what would they say. Right. And then realize that you love you so maybe you still those things to yourself. Yeah. It's easier said than done. I 1,000% agree. I know it's. Really hard and I think that's a part of like working through ego because like I when we talk about like ego death, like

of course we're not meaning it in a physical sense either. But I think the goal isn't to get rid of ego because everything is about balance. An ego is a part of who we are, but it's more about gaining control over your own mind and being in the driver's seat of that instead of allowing ego to always drive, because that's where that negative self chatter and everything comes because of its role is to create doubt, your worry, you know, insecurities or you can't trust anybody or.

You know, these people are saying these things about you or, you know, and so it's just all of these seeds of lower vibrational thought. And so I think when you come to the point of awareness where you can just like observe like an interesting thought and then like not judge it and, then let it pass and not give any action to it, you know, where like you don't internalize. That is a weird thought. I just had. It's not true because thoughts are just thoughts.

So we we get to choose what we accept as our truth or not. And that's really hard. Like if you were abused as a child or you grew up and entered into traumatic relationships or, you were gaslighted like, there's so much insecurities and lack of just inner knowing of yourself because you've been told who you should be, that it's hard to really cure what that means. You know what I'm saying?

I just feel like it's very hard to navigate through trauma survivors because gaslighting causes such severe psychological damage and so like really gaining to learn that you can trust yourself and your intuition is probably one of the hardest things to heal from. I, I definitely my intuition is not something that like I have a super strong connection to, but I know how hard that can be getting back to something you're supposed to believe.

Yeah. And you know, you were talking about having emotions and just observing them. I saw video this morning about me. I was like, that was an emotion. And then it was it was just a floating by. And yeah, we just moved on. You know, it's funny because I think that it's so easy for me, like, I will have a positive thought about myself. And I do that. It's like, that was great. And that's like just in one ear, out the other. That happens.

But like, I look in the mirror and I think I'm so overweight and I never let that just flow through. Yeah, that's the one that's like, Well, now I'm going to just ruminate on that thought and I'm going to mean I'm going to beat myself up and must myself like I would love to be where I can have both positive and negative thoughts and just let them flow through. You hang on to the next level, right? I resonate with that so heavily because, you know, like our bodies are ever changing.

We're not 12 years old anymore. And I think like I know that there's stigmas on both sides of like such pressure to like, look and be a certain way. But like with women, like, you know, again, there's that like, look, young, you got to look young, you got to look young. Everything is like, I'm not 12 anymore. I have a woman's body. I don't have to like, not have a food or whatever and occasionally my flesh colored baby bag. I love you. I love. You. Yes.

yes. Wow. That's brand. New. It's so great. I'm like you coined the term. Where am I? You know, the Doritos, you know, and Taco Bell, you know. But like, I think that when you can have like a balance and like for instance, like with food, I always had a really negative relationship with food. And a lot of that was like developed from my abusive relationship because he was like super into working out he had on steroids since he was 18. Like every all the food was always regulated in the house.

Like the nit picking with me started like I mean, within like the first two months that we were even together, just slowly picking at you and making you feel insecure about yourself and like the way that narcissist will do it. And they tried to they will give you criticism and try to say that they're doing it for your well-being, like they're helping you. And so because you love that person, you believe them like, okay, why trust them? Like he knows what he's talking about?

And so so that became a really heavy thing for me. And I, you know, when you have like ADHD, like you hyper fixate, you know. So then I started having terrible, like anxiety around it because then it felt like everything I ate was just shame. Like nothing that I ate. Everything had a wrong ingredient or carbs, whatever, or bad macros, counting your macros, and you got to have a certain calorie intake and you went over your calories for the day.

And like, I mean, I have my fitness now and there's nothing wrong with tracking your food and doing those things, but being in an abusive relationship, it was wrong and it was not okay and it was very detrimental to my health and how I viewed myself. And I remember like the last two years that I was in that relationship is when I start really started my healing journey when I was still in there, which is crazy.

And I stopped working out and it was just like I couldn't do it anymore because it wasn't fun. Like I hated going to the gym, like I preferred to like, go hiking or ride my bike or dance or you know what I mean? Like, I just hated the gym environment. It was just such toxic masculinity all the time. And like, I hated being sexualized going to the gym. And so I stopped working out and man, it was like, shame, shame.

And I just remember being so proud of myself for standing up and like, you know, if me and the kids wanted ice cream one day I would go get ice cream. And he was just like, You Don't need that. And I'm just like, But I want it, so I'm going to go get it. And he was just like, Well, I can't eat that or I'll be over my calories for the day. And I'm like, Okay, well, you don't have to eat it, but I want ice cream right now, so I'm going to go get it, you know?

And I was really starting to like set boundaries and stand up for myself. And I remember being in the kitchen one day and like the sun was shining and I had shorts on and he started laughing and he was like, my God, what is that? And I just immediately knew that he was talking about cellulite on my leg, which cellulite is not even a real thing. And we'll talk about that later. But like and he was like, when did you get that? And I was like, are you talking about my cellulite?

Sounds like it's always been there. And I was like, Don't you love it? You know? And I was just like being super sarcastic. And I'm like, you know, it just made me realize, like, everything is projections, you know? So like, he was projecting his own insecurities on me. But that doesn't mean that it didn't linger because it heavily did.

And I've struggled really hard the last few years to, like, have self-acceptance for my body in the way that it's changed because it fluctuated so much like before I left. Like I got down to like £105 and born. And how tall are you? Four. Five, one. So that's yeah, that's like a lot. 14, 13 year old. Daughter. Wearing that. By the time. My 12 year old was like £180, like everyone who was bigger, taller than me. And last year I was really doing a lot of body work.

And I'm like forcing myself to stand in the mirror naked and look at every inch of me and like, touch myself, get familiar with like honing in on my sensuality, my sexuality, and like all of the parts of myself that have been violated and having to really regain physical touch with myself. And that was really important for me. And so, I mean, like in the last year, I mean, I've gained like almost £20. I feel like that's a great thing.

So I want to kind of stay in that moment because I'm talking about standing in the mirror naked and like spending time with your self there. And that makes me super uncomfortable. So that means like I want to talk about that a little. Yeah. Because I, like I've never been sexually abused. I've never been in an abusive relationship where I was the abuse. I felt like I have been unintentionally abusive and I have been a very bad partner many times, even in my marriage.

I have to grow a lot before I can say I think I was a good partner. But being on the other side, I'm still of that. And I think that, you know, there's some some emotional abuse that comes from the way I was raised. And my mom has always not always, but as long as I can remember being overweight, my dad has had some weight issues. But they both put all of that on me and. So that idea of doing that makes me feel like just so nervous.

Like how does like, how often did you do that what were your takeaways or the benefits? Like, what was the thought process? I still do that because it's still hard. I mean, because like, my body literally will change from week to week. I mean, I can have one day I wake up and like my stomach is so bloated, it looks like I've gained like £4, like just overnight. And then I'm like, nothing's fit, you know? And so, like, it's still like a daily struggle.

And I just have to remind myself that, like, I am doing the best that I can and I'm making mindful choices. And because I had to like really stop labeling things because everything was always labeled as like good and bad. This food is bad, this food is good. And I started falling like choose like a kid's nutrition is. And she teaches like, like eating in color and like, mindful eating.

And I like using that term better because I feel like when we put labels on things, it really limits, you know, how we view food. And then plus like the way that our food is now, everything is like genetically modified or there's preservatives it's like you really are just doing the best that you can because this is what we're given. So unless you're growing your own garden, everything has shit in it. And like it sucks, you know what I mean?

So I just had to really learn, especially like with raising kids that I don't want to carry that over. And I, I want to be mindful in the way that I talk about food. So like, even with, like sugars, they were talking about sugar instead of like saying, that's bad. I can give a description of what, like a bag of Skittles? Well, this is going to give us energy really, really quick and then we're going to have a crash later.

And then whereas like if we eat fruit, that's going to give us sustainable energy to last us through the day and we're not going to have that big crash. So we're not saying there's anything wrong with having Skittles. I'm just giving them like logic and reason. This is what it does to your body. And so, like, we still have those things, you know what I mean? And I think that's what life is about, balance.

And so when it comes to how you view yourself physically, you have to have grace and compassion because like, you didn't use these skin bags, you know what I mean? Like, we were just this is what we got, you know what I mean? And so my appearance has changed so much over the years. Like, I mean, I use our hair, like down on my butt. And that was always like I felt like that was like my sole identity, like the longest, because that's how everybody, like, would identify me was like by my hair.

And it became one of those things where it was just like, truly, like heavy, like not just in the physical sense, but like emotionally. I felt like my hair was carrying, like, a lot of pain. So, I mean, even just yesterday, I mean, I just shaved it because I was just like, I just want to feel free, you know? But it's still like a daily struggle.

I still look in the mirror and like, I grabbed my stomach and my thighs and it's more like I don't look at it is like just I'm just like, that's interesting. Like, my body is changing, you know what I mean? And is that is that really what you're thinking? Is that what you're trying to think? I feel like it's a mixture of both because I'm still learning to have grace and compassion in the ways that, like my body doesn't look the same as it did like five years ago.

You know, because like, I haven't been working out like that. I've lost a lot of muscle mass. Like, I went from being so proud that I could like leg press £365, and now I'm like doing leg extensions and it's like £60, you know? And so I have to, like, really be careful with my own body because I was diagnosed with major depression disorder and anxiety and stuff as well. And like, that's a slippery slope, you know?

And if you have ADHD on top of that, like you were talking about, you can ruminate and ruminate and ruminate, ruminate guilt, guilt, guilt. And so I think I would be it would be very dishonest of me to say that I didn't have those thoughts about myself like, I think that that's just a part of being human. Like, I don't I don't really feel like anyone is ever 100% happy. Like, every single day I that's an unrealistic expectation as far as like. Happiness is not really the goal. No, it's not.

My wife and I have had this conversation many times. I used to say, really, I don't care. I just want to be happy. And that's not at all true anymore. Like I want to live a life of purpose. I want to be purposeful. Wow. Yeah, I want to have intention. Those are the things that are important to me now. It's like there's going to be pain and there's going to be suffering. But I want I want to be living for something I want to live for my children.

I want to live to grow, you know, And that's what it's like. I just want to be happy. And I was happy spending 12 hours a day on the couch, watching golf, watching TV, playing video games. And I was, quote unquote, happy. Wow. But I mean, but looking back on that time, I was like, wow, There's a lot of ways. That's years, though. I love that. I really do love that.

That's great. Yeah. High five. I just I appreciate your openness about that because, you know, I ask that question because I don't want anybody to think that you're ever fully there. Now, you know, a lot of you know, especially when it comes to fitness, people say, you know, like, my body is amazing. Like, you know, I look at my body and think how how great it is and how much I love its function and this and that.

And it's like you might think those thoughts and I mean, I'm really glad that you do, but if you deny the fact those other thoughts ever come up, then you're not being authentic. No. And you're putting out a false a false narrative out there to people who are going to aspire to that and beat themselves up in their pressure. And that's what I really just want to avoid any more of that. Yeah. Adding that into into the universe of. It's like it talks of positivity, you know what I mean?

And like that's a thing like I and I think one of the things for me was like because especially he was always though to like I had as a child and even as an adult, like my mother would make comments on my body. And so like I, I was always like bigger like, you know, growing up and I had curves and so like as a white girl to curves, like that was just like another thing. And like for my mom, it was like shame.

And so she would always make comments about like, you know, your butt looks so big or, you know, just and it was like, it should have been a compliment, you know, same. But like coming her everything about my body was like, nasty or shameful, like me shaving my vagina for the first time. You're so nasty. And I'm just like, what is nasty about that? Like, what is why do you. Have any say in the matter?

And it's just like everything. If I wore certain clothes or anytime I change my like, she will tell you like I don't like it. And I'm like, Well, then don't cut your hair that way. You know. White Woman have been America's standard of beauty for a long time, and it has only become like like I'd say in the last ten years, maybe it hasn't been widely accepted for a white who is on the, like, thicker side to be considered wildly attractive. Yeah, and. I think that's crazy. Yeah.

Because, I mean, that's the natural like the magic that in many people's body. Yes. And the fact that we ever have like an ideal of what standard beauty was is really one of the most ridiculous thoughts that I have ever bought into. Even Marilyn Monroe was like, I think it's like 14 or 16. Marilyn Monroe was just there. Yes. And so like, it's wild to think that like how that God there even for body hair. Body hair was something that was always seen as a thing of beauty and was normalized.

And then white men, you know, and at some point had I think it was in like the 1930, maybe 20, it became a thing where they started like saying like, like women needed to shave. So then they started associating black people or people of color having body hair with like animals or whatever. And then they started to put white women on the covers with shaved armpits and then promoting razors and things like that. You don't want to look like this, you know. And so like that.

Just I wonder how much of that have to do with the razor industry. I'm sure. I heard something recently about, about the creation of of like the proposal, how that was like, I think it was Tiffany's kind of made the diamond ring a thing like. If you don't propose to your wife the diamond ring, then you don't love her, Right? And that was in the early 1900s. And it became this this lie that we all by ear. It was like, I don't want to. Not one part of things I don't love.

Come with the diamond ring. Of your rejected. His Exactly and and how long because I mean I feel like this the last 510 years is kind of an awakening of a lot of things but that's something that is no longer so widely accepted to where right you have to come with a ring. That is what like months of your salary, right? Yeah. Like Tiffany's got you.

Yeah, they I mean, they look like the single best marketing ever done because almost 100 years they made people think that they had to spend up to $125,000 on a ring if they made that much in three months. Right. While in a while. Bow Wow. Yeah. I feel like the majority of our culture is really just perpetuated by fear of anything I mean, whether you look at holidays or anything, everything is like if you don't have this, you know, you're excluded or. You're the other. You're the other.

Yeah. The ring is very, very popular with society. And that's yeah, I'm not going to say that it's going away any time like I other people about, but I felt like it was like, you're still using an android, you know, you got the green bubble. Like, I remember that. And you know, I didn't ever really think about what I was putting out there. When I said that until recently, I was like, my God. I'm like, I'm othering people.

Like, I'm this person who really likes to think that my friends are somebody who finds acceptance in you. But then I make fun of them for choosing a different path on this one thing, you know, although it's jokingly it's kind of toxic. Yeah. Why not do it? Is that what I want to put out there? Yeah. And so I've a look at that, so that's great. You said something a while back, but I want to get back to you talked about kind of the small wins that you had boundaries in your abusive relationship.

It's often looked at kind of some black and white, like either you leave or you're losing. Do you think that it was necessary for you to, like, build the foundation of small wins, to have the have the kind of base build to actually have a successful exit of that relationship? Well, it wasn't successful. It wasn't a successful. It was a dangerous exit y meant. To be out on the other side, know. For sure.

But Like that is one of the most dangerous times is for victims of domestic violence is leaving and I know before I say any of that like the biggest mistake that you can make is to tell a narcissistic abuser that you're trying to leave and I did that at least four times, you know, And so that was a huge mistake. And I think for me, because.

It tells us why it's a huge mistake, because I know that there's a couple of things that you're thinking, but I want other people that don't have your, you know, training and education to understand Well. Especially for like malignant and covert narcissist, Like, they can be extremely dangerous and violent. The majority of narcissistic abuse is psychological and only about 10% of abuse is visible in these relationships, which normally does not occur until a victim is trying to leave.

And so during that time, there are so many tactics that narcissistic abusers use to further control their victims, to wear them down emotionally. Sleep deprivation is one of them, which means that they will debut, in circulatory words, solid conversations for 2 to 3 hours at a time to drain you physically, emotionally, so that way you don't have energy left to do anything else.

So like I. And they'll wake you up at 12:00 at night, You open the door, rip the covers off of you, turn the light on in the bathroom, you know, and produce the circulatory conversations to just leave you. And then the next day they will be like, Well, gaslight you about why you're tired and guilt you like if you're sleeping or taking a nap. Like I know one day this is like right before Christmas. You did that and kept me up until 3:00 in the morning.

And the next day he was led bombing the kids and was like playing a board game that we had been saying that we were going to play all week. Love bombing. Real love bombing. Yes. Love bombing is part of emotional abuse. Love bombing is a term that's also kind of associated with intermittent reinforcement, which is where they will produce these grand gestures like they might act like they're getting better or they they're getting how promising to go on future trips.

Like I bought a trip to Disney World or going on a cat went or booked a cabin trip because I know you've been talking about that for the last ten years. You know. Calling a therapist, calling. A. Therapist. I'm starting to work on myself now. The military is helping me. They put me on antidepressants and anything that they can say and do to re hook a victim. They want to make it look like they've heard your complaints and they're acting on it and being, quote unquote, better.

And that's one of the mistakes as well, is telling a narcissist the ways that they target you because they will weaponize, they weaponize anything that you say, anything you can say will be used against you, particularly that if you tell a narcissist the way that they've wronged you, hurt you, abuse you, that will be heavily weaponized and they will start to it can happen in one or two ways.

It will further escalate abuse or it will further escalate the what's called like hoovering or hovering where they are, just like on you all the time, like I'm following you around the house, harassing you, following your car, where you're going, checking. Hey, did you make it to the store? Well, how long are you going to be there controlling your every move? And so I want one again. So we kind of covered a little bit what that looks like.

You were telling me about how he kept you up till 3:00 around. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. The game. So he was doing that and he came in and I. I was like, wow, you guys are just like playing the game without me. And Then he was just like, he was like, Yeah. I was like, I was wondering why you were in there sleeping. And I was like, I'm like, are you serious? I'm like, You kept me up until 3:00 in the morning, and I'm tired because I already have chronic illnesses and I'm like, fatigued.

Anyway, he was like, it's only because of like, you just drive around so much all the time. You're always going places. You can get up before going to the grocery store. Little things like that. And so, like that's a way of like gaslighting you and then say like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, that didn't happen, you know?