Take a Beat ⏯️| Exist Without Expectation To Uncover Your Next Move With Tolu Adebekun

So I've had an amazing career. So me personally today, I've had an amazing career. You know, I start off from the graduate scheme I left is like a head of department. So I've had a great career. But what I also knew was that the only way I wanted to leave was with a redundancy package, right? Because it's not often that you get the opportunity to get paid to leave. So for me, I was always open to that idea.

I was a bit surprised when it actually came, but in a lot of ways it's almost like a dream come true, to Hello and welcome back to Authentic on Air with Bruce Alexander. I'm your host, Bruce Alexander. The show is entering its podcaster era, so people get on board the platform of the show is to create a space for authenticity by allowing people to share their stories, very relationships and authenticity and how they tie authenticity into the things they are passionate about.

The beauty of many podcasters is that you can skip right to the good stuff because their passions are already out in full view or the public in the form of a podcast. You're going to start hearing podcaster a lot through my introductions because I recently gotten hooked into an amazing community of podcasters, which has provided me with a unique list of amazing individuals. So I really think it's going to help elevate the listening experience in the show. Think about it.

In all likelihood, someone who describes himself as a podcaster will want to sound good on a podcast, so they will likely have a better sound, set up a more clear idea of what they want to talk about and deliver clear, concise points and, you know, pretty brief language and we'll want to be interesting. So you might check out their podcast as well. So for me, a perfect guest and for you, the content isn't good. I just want air. So no pressure to my guest today.

Tolu at about 30 minutes stood up at a beckon to look out of back, right? Yeah. Okay. And I'm going to get used to it. But he is a speaker data analyst and you guessed it podcaster. More about our guest after today's reflection. What is leadership mean to you? Where do leaders exist in your life and where do you exist as leader? Through my experiences, I have learned that leadership is not all about team sports and corporate management.

I am a leader in my home, my friend group, and my community. I have a personality that allows me to speak up and take action fearlessly. That makes it easy for me to be turned to as a leader. What makes leadership hard for me is remembering that those words and actions affect me or affect more than just myself.

So I have no question if I am a leader, but I have to keep asking myself if I'm being a good leader, am I applying my own principles of self-awareness, humility, and consistency to the way I lead? Usually when I ask this question, it's because I know that I'm not and it's time to reassess what I'm doing and why I have gotten off track. What struggles do you have leading authentically in your life? I would love to hear your thoughts.

Sound off on the episode 18 Reflection Post on Instagram, Facebook or threads at Authentic Identity Management or make a post of your own with the hashtag Authentic Reflections. And remember if you like today's podcast or love the space we are creating on the show, then please leave a review and follow this podcast so you don't miss any of the great episodes coming out weekly. And recently I've created a Patreon like This is is hard for me to say, but I would love any support.

Authentic Bruce, a patriarch, host of the Genius IQ podcast and the reason to be whole podcast solo at A Beckon is the British accented, silky smooth advocate of leadership through emotional intelligence, but wants to empower you to be a better leader, starting with Leading yourself with love.

I'm very excited to dig in to tell his story because, hey, I could listen to him, read the phone book, be I read him as a very genuine person, and we all know those are my favorite types of people and see is promoting something I believe deeply. And that is what I call leading with your heart and what he calls IQ. The emotional quotient. He is doing work that I find especially important because I have had so much experience with leaders, with leadership, with a negative IQ.

He is currently navigating what he calls unemployment as he was fairly recently made redundant in his full time position. Let's get into it with live from London, Tolu and Becca. Welcome. TOLA Thank you so much. And as a podcaster, I loved. Watching you do. Your intro and your reflections. I've never seen anything like, like that before, so that was amazing. I loved that. I really enjoyed that. thank you so much.

And I'm sorry I butchered your name so many times through it, but I'll get it right, I promise. Hey, the fact is that you tried, right? So many people wouldn't even try, so I'm just honored that you tried, so. Yeah. Okay. With me. Well, you'll see, just in this episode that I have no problem failing in public. So, again, it's.

A it's a good trait to have because I feel, especially with podcasting sometimes it can really feel like you're failing because you can feel at the beginning like you're putting stuff out there. Are people really listening, are people really enjoying it? And then you get some feedback about, you know, okay, you could have done this better with your camera or that better.

So I think it's so important with podcasting to just be able to like laugh at yourself a little bit, do things that might not work out like it's all get. I absolutely agree. So to jump right in, how fresh is your unemployment? So I was made redundant in July of this year, so it's about six weeks old. Six weeks old. So do you think the amount of fun in that equation will change along with your savings. To do a That's a very good question.

I think that for me, I was at the same company for 12 years, so I was a, you know, a big broadcaster. I was there since I left university. So I've had an amazing career. So me personally today, I've had an amazing career. You know, I start off from the graduate scheme I left is like a head of department. So I've had a great career. But what I also knew was that the only way I wanted to leave was with a redundancy package, right?

Because it's not often that you get the opportunity to get paid to leave. So for me, I was always open to that idea. I was a bit surprised when it actually came, but in a lot of ways it's almost like a dream come true, to be very honest with you, because it's probably time for me to go to try something different. So I think that the funny employment side of it is, is going to stay for a long time because I just get to figure out what's next.

And there's no pressure because you get a package so I can actually relax a little bit. Well, I feel like here in America, what you're talking about is not a common thing. So tell us a little bit more about what a redundancy packages and how that's setting you up for really taking your next step. So in the UK, the way that it works basically is that the government has set up guidelines for you get X amount of months pay or weeks pay based on how long you've been on a company.

So when you've been at a company for like 12 years, it's going to stack up into a decent amount. So so that's where kind of in the UK are a little bit more protected in these redundancy situations. And then also some companies have what's called an enhanced package as well where they add some extra bits on top. So it's it's a really it's not as bad as it is in the U.S. We can kind of get laid off really quickly. It has a whole long process to it. So you're a lot more protected in the UK.

Something else I think that that we may not be familiar with across the pond is the graduate scheme. How how did that work starting out with this site. So so basically the way that it works is that they take people who are fresh out of college like you guys call it in the States and then you go on a rotational scheme. So for example, within I did a business degree, so I was quite general, but then I did, you know, finance, sales and marketing.

I did client delivery and then I did analytics as part of my graduate scheme. So it's over a period of like 18 months to two years. You work in different parts of the business and then you figure out what you want to do at the end. So I thought going into it, I wanted to be in sales and marketing, but then when I went into sales and marketing, I was terrible at it and I found it really boring for me personally.

But analytics, I loved it and I didn't even know that that was an option of something that I could do. So I did like maybe six weeks in analytics, and after that I knew that, okay, this is what I'm good at and this is what I want to be doing for the future. So it's a rotational kind of thing and it's really interesting.

So I did a study abroad here in the States, so I was at Marquette University and I had a class called I think it was motivation and leadership, and they were basically saying about how the best leaders didn't just go straight up in an organization. They would kind of go from different parts and make some diagonal moves as well so that they can find how different parts of the business work and they can bring that understanding into the leadership.

And that really impacted me in terms of when I came back to the UK, I really wanted a rotation of Gretzky Moore I tried different things. that's great. That's really interesting. So were you were you paid a decent living wage throughout graduate school? Yeah. So I think I think I started on like £25,000 and that was like 12 years ago, right? So that was at the time, what, like 35, $40,000, which was it was reasonable in terms of living and things like that.

So it was, it definitely was a decent wage. Yeah. Wow. That's that's amazing how different things are from culture to culture because, I mean, to get that kind of experience in America, you're going to have to sacrifice money like you were. You're not going to be able to get paid and also get the experience to be that well-rounded, especially going into one company. They're going to they're going to expect you to do an internship for little to no money.

And that's yeah, that's not going to say fair or unfair because it doesn't really matter. But it's it's definitely an interesting look at the culture that exists, you know, where we were. Born out of. And I think it's so I have this very interesting relationship with America because for the longest time I wanted to go and live in America. America was like, I want it to be the American dream, you know, come over to America, work really hard, make loads of money, be really successful.

What I found was that even stuff like what we call annual leave or you call PTO, right? Like paid time off, we get a standard 25 days for the year, right. And America averages something like 1040. Yeah. Right there where I worked. You earn a. Year's a day's worth of holiday for every year that you work there. So when I left, I was getting like 30 days of holiday every year plus my bank holidays. Right? So these were some of the things when I was like, I would love to go to America.

So like the working culture in some ways is quite tough. It's quite tough, especially when you're coming from Europe where the UK is okay. But there are places like France which some people take the whole summer off, you know? So it's it's very different. But what I love about America is the competitive nature, right? Because in the UK we're a little bit less competitive and it shows in so many different ways. But I love the competitiveness of America.

Yeah, we're definitely competitive until it comes to pay. At that point, we kind of kind of lay off a little bit, you know, you know, we let a I don't know, let the capitalist thing do its do its job. And, you know, I have my own feelings about that and I can take it or leave it, but at the same time it has provided a place where I really do enjoy living. So, you know, there's some really good things, some really bad things. But yeah, like I was interested with you.

Like, I know that race in Europe is completely different than the way we can see it here. Like, I know that I've heard that England is closer to America than really anywhere else to speak of, but it's still very different. So whenever I say you're a black man living in England, that may not be how you perceive it. What is what is your perception and how would you consider that you were treated as a person with brown skin in England? That's a really interesting question.

So I think for context, right? So I was actually born in Nigeria and I came over to the UK when I was about two years old. So funnily enough, both of my parents separately were born in the UK when their parents were here studying and then lived in Nigeria when they were growing up, right? So they grew up in Nigeria, but they had British passports and everything.

My father and I came from a place where, you know, maybe ten or 15 years before we came to the UK, you could spend Nigerian money in England, so you pound and the nearer like tide, you know, our economy was good. So now it's like £1 to 700 and or something like that. So in the last 30 years there's been a lot of change. So my parents were, you know, they came from successful families, they came from where, you know, they had houses that were like as big as two houses.

So coming from Nigeria and that kind of background where like black people succeed, you know, it's a normal thing was in England sometimes it wasn't always like that. So I'm probably coming from that mindset where there's no reasons why I shouldn't succeed. You know, it's expected of me to go to university, go to college, get a good job and some money like that's expected of me to the point where we have what we call the big four. So doctor, accountant, engineer, lawyer.

So that's what most people are coming to become. So my, my mom is a lawyer. My dad is an engineer, right? So that's the kind of the background that I come from. So when I was growing up, success is like, it's not really an option. Do you see what I mean? It's it's what you do. So I think that sometimes that conflicts with what sometimes English people might think of black people, right?

So that's where sometimes there's been a bit of a conflict where other people often have different expectations of what I should look like, what I should sound like, what I should be doing. But to be very honest with you, I'm kind of focused on I need to do what I can control, right? So I can control how I respond. I can control how I approach people and in my control, controlling my control. Of course, for me, generally, everything else figures itself out. Everything else works itself out.

But I've definitely had instances where, for example, I used to do a job where I would leaflet and I was leafleting in a car park and paying the leaflets on the car windshield and someone called the police and said, you know, there's a black guy in the car park and he's got a crowbar. And I'm like, What? So the police came up to me in the middle of the town center and they basically like start searching me in the middle of town.

And it's like I'm literally trying to do my job, you know, so that there have definitely been instances where race has played into it. But I think that it's again, it's the way I try and live my life as much as possible is that I need to do what I can do. I need to be as good as I can be. And then if people aren't down for that because I'm a black man, that's not really my problem. I will find the people who will see the value in what I do and they'll pay me for the value that I bring.

So that's kind of how I've seen race in the UK. I think when I was living in America, I was in Atlanta and I was dressed like a European person. So a little bit more slim face ID and that kind of thing. And I remember bumping into a police officer and asking him for directions, and he looked so confused by me because obviously, like I'm six foot six, I'm like a big black guy. And then when I come up to him, when I'm talking, I talk like an English person. I'm dressed like a European.

And I just remember him, him saying to me, like, you be safe now. And I was like. Why did you need to tell me that? Like, what is going on? And that's when I started to really understand. Okay, this is what. Other like African-Americans, this is what they go through when they live here on a regular basis, because I was just visiting. But he was like, Who are you here with? I'm like, I'm 21. What you eat you by here? But it just. Helps me to see from a different perspective. You know.

That's that's really funny. He's like, You're not going to be safe in this environment, sir. You're a little I'm sure he's probably thinking, Well, this got solved. Yeah. Yeah, I am. I am. So it's like, I can't. I can't pretend like any kind of gangster. I'm not. I'm just not. Well, and most of the people that he probably dealt with weren't gangster either. But because of, you know, that that stereotype, that's what he's, you know, what he's actually trained to think.

And that's, you know, that's the really depressing part of our society. And I've dealt with a lot of the same things. You know, I live here and I don't sound the way I'm supposed to. I am big. I'm you know, I'm not six six. I'm only I'm only five, ten, but I'm £350. So I'm posing in a different way. And whenever I talk, people are they're surprised. you're not supposed to sound that way.

And that's something, you know, I used to struggle with, You know, we thought we talk a lot about identity on the show. And that's that's part of the idea. I used to struggle with people assuming that I was going to sound away, assuming that I was going to have a certain set of values, assuming that I was going to be away, and me taking those opinions on

as my own. And I've definitely that's been a huge part of my growth process, is learning not to let other people's opinions change you, but let them shape the way that you grow. And, you know, it's important for me to be aware of those other people's opinions and thoughts because you have to you have to know the system that work. You know, it's important. I but I'm glad that the experience is different for you. And I'm sorry that that while you were in America, you did have that experience.

But, you know, I love what you said about you have to be aware of other people's perceptions. So, for example, one thing I'm super passionate about is learning how to play the game. So like the corporate game, there are it's a game to be played, right? And there are ways that you can win and there are ways that you can lose it. So for example, when I go into a meeting and I meet someone for the first time, like sometimes I'm much taller than people, right?

So when you shake their hand, they give you the strong handshake, like, who's the alpha? Right? So I have to be aware of that. So when I'm in a meeting and I've got an idea, I can be aware of the fact that, okay, this person might be insecure because of my size, they might have racial bias, whatever it is. So one thing that you're not going to find me doing is being the angry black man, right?

So even if we're in a disagreement, I'll be very calm, very logical, very like, very cool, because I also know that, look, I it's sad, but I don't have as much leeway as my white counterpart to act out like that. I simply don't. That's going to be a problem. Then on top of that, I'm also tall, so I have to find ways to interact with people where it's not threatening. Right? So, for example, let's say I've got an idea.

There are ways that you can have that conversation that bring in that insecure person that helps to get their buy in because you're understanding where they're coming from. You're talking to where they're coming from. So even if it's a case of I am, I reinforce something that person said. So let's say, you know, they had a good idea or whatever, I would say, you know what you said? It gave me this idea that if we do it this way, that can work because it's not UVA's is me.

Yeah, that's us together, figuring out a way forward. So I love what you said about understanding other people's perspectives and being aware of that and knowing how to. For me, it's knowing how to work with that because that's human behavior as well. It's just there are some extra layer sometimes where like race and size and things like that come into it. And it's I definitely agree with you said I've got time.

What you said a hard part for me is sometimes the fact that we have to play the game so much better than anybody else to be successful. Like, you know, because of those mitigating factors, we have to know the game. We have to play the game, and then we're handicapping the game at the same time. And that, you know, it's it's easy to want to just not play the game at that point, but then nobody gets hurt.

So, you know, it's. Yeah. It's important to understand that it's a game that you have to play it if you want to be successful, but also keep your keep your heart safe and not, you know, not let that enter into the into the equation. It's, you know, especially when it's business, it is just business. Don't let your feelings get entrenched in that. And here's the thing, right? Is that we're often not taught that there is a game to be played.

Right. So when I was growing up, my parents thing was study well, you know, be very good academically and you'll be successful, work hard and your work will talk for you. But that's not true, right? Because there are people in corporate who get far and they don't actually work that hard. They're not actually that good at what they do. What they're really good at is publicizing the little work that they've done. They're good at saying, This is my success, but we're not taught that.

So as a Nigerian, it's actually like for me quite taboo to be telling you I'm good at this, I'm good at that. This is what I've done. So I feel like we're not even taught sometimes that there is a game to be played. We're taught if you work hard it will work out. But if you've got to work hard and be smart about how you talk about your work and about how you publicize what you've done, there's so much within the game to be played that I think we don't.

We often don't even know about it, and that's why I'm super passionate about. So when I talk to people like me who are coming out of university, I'm telling them, Look, these are the games and these are how they play. It's not in a manipulative way, but you need to understand how people work. You know, that's that's what I'm really passionate about. So I feel like it's not my parents fault because they didn't have to play the game back home.

But there are games to be played in the corporate world. Absolutely. And I recently the the episode that just came out this morning on when whatever this plays that won't make sense but I talked to Taylor Doerr and he has a TED speaker and he talked about and then and what what those and then moments are the key individuals in people's lives that were often the like the kind of the launch pad for their success that people leave out of those stories.

They just say work hard and then you'll make it or study hard and then you'll make it. And that and then it's work hard and then you'll make connection with and that person will know somebody who and there's all that. There's all these, like, little hidden, you know, hacks to the game that help level you up, that are not as easily accessible to people who look like us.

If you you know, if you happened to look different, often you're automatically accepted in the circles where those and then moments happen much more often. It's a much higher degrees of success. You know, even with a great in the moment for me where somebody was like, Hey, I know this person, let me connect you. It's not necessarily going to be a successful connection because they're going to meet me and I look like me and they look like them. And it's not necessarily like, automatic connection.

Whereas if you're, you know, Caucasian, it is often a very different. You know, I feel like from both sides sometimes we feel like we're not going to have that much in common, right? So I've had it. So I was part of a diversity network at work. Right. And one of the things that they were saying is, look, I don't like football, I don't like this. I don't like that. And this is what all the white guys at work are talking about. And my thing was I didn't like football either.

So like soccer, sorry for America. And so, like, I don't like those things. Yeah, I didn't like talking to I don't like golf. I don't like any of these things that they're talking about, but I can still find common ground. So I feel like sometimes both sides go into it thinking I'm not going to be able to connect with this person.

And I feel like that's where as human, sometimes we really miss out because, you know, the Caucasian side of saying, well, they're so different from me, I don't know how to connect the outside of saying the same thing. And then we miss each other in the middle. It's actually like humans are a lot more similar than they are different. So I just feel like sometimes we miss a trick with that from both sides, you know?

And yeah, for me it's like what I especially miss with that trick. So part of my journey was getting kind of forced out of the department because I was, I really missed that trip. Like, I missed that place where you connect with people who you who aren't like you.

And so part of that for me was ADHD and unable or being unable to filter through all this things, these things that I thought were an interesting to get to see that there are people that likely have something in common with me and find that common ground. And also because I'm me and I think the way that I do, they didn't want to try to find that common ground with me either because there's, you know, seven people on the station who all think very similarly, I think very different.

And I also look different in a couple of different ways. And they they decided that that was not worth pushing past. And so did I. Honestly, looking back, if I had had me to talk to now, I could have coached myself through that all very differently. But at the time, it's really hard to to want to get to know somebody who doesn't want to get to know you either.

But if you once again, if you were trying to be successful, you have to make a commitment to play the game and to do the things that are going to help make your life easier and make your career more successful. And I think that's where for me, leadership comes into it, because I loved what you said about how leadership isn't just in terms of sports. It's not just in terms of corpora, but it's it's really about how do you lead yourself first for me?

So the reason I have my podcast, the genome sequence at Dynamix is the Greek word for power. So it's about empowering people with emotional intelligence so that they can lead themselves and lead others better. Right? So it's not a thing of like getting to know people is actually really interesting, right? So for me, it's really interesting to hear you say that actually that was something that you weren't interested in before because as a podcast host, you're really attentive.

Host right? You listen, it feels like you're engaged. So it's so interesting to me that so far away from that was kind of how you were in terms of when you were at the fire station. But it's like, yeah, it's just interesting to hear what people have to say, you know, every, every human. It's so amazing, you know, even the ones that we think on, like they've got something within them that's amazing.

And it's like, how do I leave myself to the point where actually I'm curious about people because that's really what people want, is that curiosity and connection You know, like, people love that.

So it's it's not even that's complicated, but it's a bit of a discipline to say like, okay, even though this is hard for me because my ADHD is kicking off and I don't want to pay attention, I'm going to lead myself to the point where I pay attention, where I hear what people are saying, where I can connect with people. I think that's so important. Yeah. And I think what what part? Like becoming a podcast I'm sorry podcast host for me has done is that it's kind of gamified getting to know people.

It's like, you know, each time somebody coming on to the show like the game is how well can you get to know this person in this, you know, in this closed amount of time and all of a sudden, I love it. It's like being it's like my favorite game. I'm like, I love getting to know all these different people and digging into their stories and hearing everything about them.

Even though my my buddy who, you know, all of the podcast was watching, he's like, And I watch your videos, you look like you're dead. But I'm like, That's just how my face looks like, I swear I'm so interested. Like, my brain is on fire right now, But my, my face is just like, kind of unless I'm like, if I'm laughing, that's pretty obvious that I'm, you know, excited about it. But my my attention phase is almost angry. Like, I wish I could change that. But yeah.

So, like, I was going over my notes for my for my leadership workshop and it what you just said, it reminded me of something that I like I hadn't looked at in a while. I'm looking at one of the the key tenets of my leadership style. Authentic leadership is to assume that everybody on your team is a stronger link in the chain than you are.

Just work off that assumption until they proven like, yeah, yeah, like assume that you are the one who needs to get stronger, especially if you're leading that team. We need to get better at utilizing their skills rather than tell people that they need to do this better, they need to do that better. Assume that everybody has something in them that there's a reason why they're here.

And that's something that I like, I dealt with a lot is that I got hired in the fire department like people saw something in me. But the thing that they saw in me was was really officer material, like I'm a really good thing. Like solving problems is something that I'm really great at. And I'm also really good at talking through things. And the fire department, your first three years, there is nothing about that that involves think they do not want you.

They don't want your thoughts. They don't you don't. You haven't been on this job long enough to think about that. And that that was so hard for me. I couldn't stop thinking. But they assumed that because I didn't have that much experience, I didn't have anything to bring to the table. And I think that that's a mistake. I think that if somebody hired somebody and they put them on your team, there are likely, you know, at least smart enough to have some idea of what your team need.

And you should you should just trust in that fact because they're there anyways, try to make the best of it and find out what that thing is that they offer to the team and then utilize. You know, if they're a good thinker, don't tell them to shut up the thing. Yeah. What do you think about this? Even if you don't let them implement their thoughts all the time, they haven't thinking about things and all of a sudden you might hear that one thing that you know that's the case.

You've been working on for a long time. Exactly. Exactly. Hey there, authentic audience. I really hope you're enjoying this fantastic conversation with The Godfather. Tolu added back and make sure to rate and review the episode and hit the follow button right now so you don't miss the extra special episode coming up next week. Episode 19 Best Friends for Life Maintaining Your Identity Through Life long friendship with Marilyn and Latricia is my first foray into the group interview format.

I'm not going to lie. I was terrified. Thankfully, the host duo of the Marvelous Mystic Moguls podcast was so generous and understanding as I navigated this new format. What happened was incredibly impactful. Episode 19 is an ADHD fantasy. We cut through all of the verse and immediately jumped into the deepest waters and stayed there. We visited many different pools, but we stayed in the deep end and I really think you're going to enjoy it. Don't miss it.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programing by everyone. I think that even if someone is a bad thing to at least hear what they have to say, like what's the harm in hearing a suggestion that someone has? Because I think sometimes it's the people with the least experience that can see things fresh. Right? So, for example, the last team that I left, I it was with a tool that I'm not that good at, right. But I had a team of people who were way better at that tool than me.

But where I could add value is that because I don't know all the ins and outs of the tool, I can ask questions that might seem stupid, but then people think about and actually know that is possible. This is how we can do that. But because I don't I don't have all the experience, I can actually offer some really fresh questions that can lead to something new because when you experience, you just do things the way it's always been done, because that's what experience tells you to do.

But actually when you're not experienced, you can say, what about this? Could we do that? Is this possible? So I feel like even if someone is a terrible thinker, you know, everybody deserves to at least be heard, you know, at least hear out what they have to say, go through it properly and figure out if it's something to do or not. I don't think it's fair to just shut people up because you think they're not experienced. That's how you get stuck in the past. 100%.

So I, I want to go back to this redundancy thing just a little bit because like as I was looking at your career, well, it's more about the fact that you had done everything right. You had you know, you built yourself up to this company through rising above the ranks, trying out different things, you know, make yourself well-rounded and reaching, you know, a pretty high degree of success.

Does leaving that job once again, this is this might be an American mode of thought, which we make our careers a large part of our identity. You know, whenever I left the fire department, it was very difficult for me. It still is difficult sometimes because that was who I was. I was a firefighter, I was a public educator and defining myself. Now it's hard to say that's what I did. That was a, you know, a great time in my career. Now I'm a stay at home dad. I'm a, you know, coach.

Those things are all great. But being a firefighter, you know, it does mean something to me. So in your culture, do you have that assignment of career to identity? And was it hard to have put so much time into building up this identity and doing it really well to then turn around and walk away? So I think in the UK it's very similar in terms of when you first meet people, it's like, you know, what's your name and what do you do?

So there is definitely that link between, you know, the jobs that we do and our identity. I think that I've been on a really interesting journey because so I'm Christian and I've grown up as a Christian my whole life, and I feel like my parents have always taught us, even in terms of I'm not a Nigerian first, I'm not British first first, I'm a Christian. So that's what really grounds me in terms of my values, my identity and who I am.

I think that I also used to be like a semiprofessional basketball player, right? And because I'm six foot six, everybody would always ask me, So do you play basketball? Farnham was like, Yeah, I play a. Bit edited. Of that. So that was actually probably more of my more my identity than necessarily my work because that for me was kind of a bigger thing. And then there was a period of time where like I was playing for a really good team.

I was just starting to like crack the rotation and times of getting on the court more because I was on the bench and I was so deep on the bench that it was like it was so dark. Lord that right? Because I wanted to play. And in a good league and a good. Team and I'm not that good at basketball. I'm tall, I work hard, but talent wise, I'm not that talented. And I was just aunt's crack the rotation and then I felt like God was leading me to leave the basketball team. And I'm like, Why?

Everything is good, You know? I'm just about to start playing more. I mean, everything was great, but I felt like it had to happen at that time to decouple my identity a little bit from being a basketball player. So now when people ask me on the board, it's not like, Yeah, I play for this team. It's like, No, I used to play basketball, but I don't anymore.

So I think that going through that helped me a little bit in terms of decoupling my identity from things like work or sports and being in a place where now I'm actually quite comfortable to know that actually I had a great 12 years a Sky, but now it's time to do something else, and I can actually let that go comfortably because it's not all that I am. You know.

You said something really interesting that that rung really true to me is that you felt like you had to make a change because God was leading you to uncouple your identity from basketball. Like, you know, we talked about this a little bit, like I'm not the most religious person in the entire world, but I believe strongly that there's a higher power. And sometimes he or she may speak to your life and kind of give you guidance.

And the fire department was that same thing for me is that I just didn't listen the first ten times. I was getting a little nudging of like, Hey, like you should do something else. Like, this is for one. Yeah, it's crushing your soul. You're not happy here. But I was like, But I'm secure. But yeah, no, I don't. I don't want to listen like, I heard it. And I was like, Nope, I'm not sure I'm taking care of my family. I'm a fighter. It's getting better. I'm like, you know, I'm making.

By the time I left, I was making almost three times what I was. Whenever I enter the fire department, like, you know, my previous job before that, I was things were going so well financially, but emotionally I was that I as a as a father and a spouse, I was not able to do really anything I'm capable of because I was making myself so small to continue with the apartment. And finally, like God was very clear with, it was like, Well, I'm going to make it.

Like, since you're not going to do it on own, I'm making it to where you no longer have any choice to be at this position anymore. You got to go. Now. They can either fire you or you can resign. And those are the options I have And so at that point I made the decision, quote unquote, it wasn't really a decision at that point to leave. And then my you know, after a little bit of reflection, my soul started to lift, like incredibly, I started to become a different person.

I started to become myself. And I hadn't realized how much of myself I had given away to be part of that job. And then I realized I was like, okay, I see it now. I see that you had a plan. And even though like right now, financially, things are shaky, My, my soul has never, never felt strong. I've never been more thankful to be a lot.

I think for me there are so many things in that because one of them it says about, you know, what good is it for a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul, You know? So there is something so important about our souls and the health of our souls. And that's one of the things and I think the other thing was that I feel like security in this world that we live in is a little bit of a mess, right? Even when you look at Facebook. Google.

You know, all these massive tech companies, they are laying people off by the thousands and the tens of thousands. And those are meant to be super secure jobs. So I just feel like security and like job security is such a myth, You know, like it can literally be tomorrow that you come to the office and they say, look, we're going to have to shut down the company. Look, your department is going to be gone.

So for me, like the whole thing about job security, I've just learned that it's just such a myth. It's like anything can go at any time in this world. But if you have the skills to be able to and. What's what's so. Funny is yeah, what's so funny is that my wife and I had had conversations about, you know, the fire department and she's like, you know, what? If some of this and I was like, No, the fire department is recession proof. It's done. Then see proof It's not really.

There was like once you get past a certain point, you're not going to get laid off because they'll just lay off the recruits and, you know, it'll happen before. But like I was far up, one, two, it was like people get DUIs on this job and don't fired people have, you know, been caught up in domestic abuse and don't get like, I was like, I'm never going to do any of that stuff. I'm like, I'm good. I'm self-reliant. And somehow God showed me that pride come up before the fall.

Yeah. And I yeah, I appreciate the lesson. It was a hard one, but yeah, I had, I needed to learn it that there is the security is a myth there is, especially for black men in America it is very much hard to to find that And. And I just feel like it's we have to get our security from something else.

And, you know, whether you're a faith person or not, I feel like there are still things that you can do in terms of getting your security and other things, because I feel like so many people, if we go back to identity our identities tied into their job and tied into what they do, and that's a really dangerous place to be because that can change at any time. You know, you could be really in favor with your boss at the moment your boss could leave and have a new person who doesn't value you.

So I really feel like we all need to do that searching. So like, okay, what was my identity really? And what is my confidence? And what is my security? And because I can't trust another person for my security. And that's where I'm a big fan of people doing their own thing, building their own businesses, You know, having their own side hustles, because at least that's not really dependent on someone else, you know, that you can do the things that you need to do to make that.

What works for me personally, like I'm a faith person. So for me, like no matter what is happening out here, I still know that God is my security, God is my identity. That's where that comes from for me. Yeah. And, you know, and I think that that ties back into authenticity as well is that if you are depending on something that is outside of yourself to to help you sleep at night, like that's for one, it's terrifying and it's never really secure.

But also you're not really being true to yourself. You're you're not you're I mean, the honest truth is you don't feel secure. That's why you're trying to, you know, hang onto this other thing to be to find security. And, you know, I feel like a religion can be something that you can internalize in a way where you can you can find that inside yourself.

But whenever it's like your job or, you know, the fact that I play this sport or I'm good at this thing and whenever things get tough, that's not you're not going to be able to fall back on that. But if you are being real and you're saying like either either I don't feel secure, like that's you know, that's where I'm at is like there is I don't feel secure and that's that's my security is that I know that I'm not going to have that security long term and I'm okay with that.

Now, I know that there are going to be ups and downs and I'm okay with that now. And that's that's something that is like that provides security in knowing that there is going to be unknowns and there's going to be changes and things are going to be up and down like, it's always going to happen. Okay, let's just move. Forward. Yeah. So as a podcaster, I have a list of fears I have to face every now and again. What if nobody listens? What if they listen and they don't like it?

What if listeners don't like me? What if I put out a bad episode and lose all the progress and momentum I've built over? Just a few examples. What fears do you have that you face before you hop on the mic? Or do you know? I feel like with podcasting it's a very it's very like a it's a bit of a flow state for me. Well, I, I really enjoy podcasting. I enjoy meeting new people, having new conversations.

And I think that maybe because I come from a sporting background where you have to go out there and play front of loads of people, often people who don't like you. So when you go and play, I know an away game, people are calling out your name, cussing out your mom. There's all sorts of like in your face right there and then people that don't like you.

So maybe because I've come from that kind of background for me, like jumping on a on a call with a with another human who wants to be that me, I'm kind of like, this is great. You know, even if it goes really badly, we do it again. So I think with podcasting, I don't know if I really if I really feel much fear for that, if that makes sense to me. It's just like I'm uncool people having cool conversations. If the worst comes to the West, I just need to ask good question.

And that will open up a whole conversation because they're here to talk to me. You know, I don't have to entertain anybody. I just have to ask good questions. So I think that's probably my my mindset with podcasting. I think what I'm what I'm trying to be better at is the promotion and that, you know, growing the show and that kind of thing but I think that's what it is, actually. YouTube will humble you.

It will help you with absolutely what you pop your show and it gets a zero views YouTube will humble you. And that's where I'm a bit more tentative is paying stuff out here like YouTube and Twitter and Tok will also humble you because people are mean on Tik tok so that's probably where I started. Really. How are. You? Are you on Tik Tok for your podcast And I. I'm not I'm not so.

I've posted a few things on Tik Tok now and one of them someone was like rude about this woman who said like, I'm an AR a few times, someone else is like, This is absolute nonsense. And so the Tik tok. Is. It's wild. And I've really been at it for like a month. I'm just like, Wow. So for me, I'm, you know, of the old school. Like, all publicity is good publicity. So if they're talking about it, you know, I wouldn't care if they're saying negative things.

It's like, yes, I'm getting in front of some people finally. Like what? You know what you might in your view? Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. And on social media, like, I get no comment. You know, very few likes and people I know well will tell me things. They'll be like, man, I saw that video you posted. Like, I was really great. I'm like. You're like it said. Like, you kind of liked it. You could have shared it.

You could have, you know, commented on it and let me know that I'm doing something that is, you know, interesting to you and that that part kills me. I would much rather people be talking crap on my on my pages than just it'd be crickets all the time. Like, it's killing me. You know, what they write is so with LinkedIn, right. I've I've kind of switched up how I see LinkedIn because I've had so many of these experiences as well where people who I'm like, I've never seen you like anything.

I've never seen you comment. Right? But they will tell me loads about my podcast. So they're watching it, they're remembering it, they're being impacted by it and that's that for me is my metric. So impressions on maintain is really my metric. So am I getting a decent amount of impressions of people seeing it? Because I saw a neat and it's like only percent of people on LinkedIn post once a week or more, right? Something like 60% of people will scroll, see things never like never comment. Right?

Some it's like more than half of the people are just going to look. So I've become okay with that in terms of like as long as people are seeing. And I think that's what crushes me sometimes about YouTube is like I put a show up there, it's got zero views, so no one's seeing at least one link. Tib I know people are seeing it. They can talk to me about it offline. That's cool. So when it's like zero views on YouTube, I'm like. Come on, you're have.

Me because y really want people to see it and people to be impacted by it. That's really what I want, you know likes and comments for me in some ways it's like it's almost like a vanity vanity metric. Like, okay, so many people liked it. But what I really want is for people to see it, to hear it, and then to think about it. You know, be curious about it, be challenged by it. That's that's now my metric is impressions, to be honest.

And, you know, and when you're doing things like we are, which we're both doing, you know, heart led podcasts, we're both doing things that are important to us, you're putting a piece of yourself out there and like, I absolutely want people to see it because I feel like it's good information, it's good content. It will help you.

Like, I don't want like for me, I want like to know that people are seeing it, you know, and then, you know, and also to help push me in the algorithm so more people do see it. That's my that's like I get focused on those things, thinking that they're important. But I know that that's not what I actually think is important. What I think is important is getting my podcast in front of as many ears, my services in front of as many eyes as possible, because I want to help you. I can, I do.

And I feel like what I'm doing will be helpful to, you know, at least ten more people than 20 more people after that. Like, I know that I'm doing something that is going to be helpful, but they've got to see it. And so whenever I know that, you know, I look at impressions and it's not very good and I look at engagement and it's even worse. And I'm like, Well, the people who were looking engaged get in front of more people. And, you know, it's not anybody's problem, but mine.

You know, I'm working on getting better. That's life. You gave me some tips on how to engage better on LinkedIn and get more people and on a on that aspect. And I'm going to work on that as well because it is a good space for me. It's just I tried it for, you know, like two weeks and I was like, nothing. Like I'm not getting in front of anybody and I'm not getting any engagement. And I also don't I don't love the platform. It's not working for me because I'm on Instagram, like I like Instagram.

That's where I spend my social time on Instagram. LinkedIn is very it's like very buttoned up. Interesting, interesting. Do you know what? Right. But so. I. Know that. Sorry. Go. I don't I want to hear what you say. Up until about April, I kind of thought the same about LinkedIn, where it's just like, that's where I go to post. I got permission. That's where I go to post a new picture of my head headshot. What I found now with LinkedIn is it's much more of a social network for business.

So you will have people who are posting about going to buy Jordans from some guy on the beach, for example. There's way more social stuff on there. And I feel like LinkedIn is a lot more of an encouraging place because you've got lots of people who want to be better, lots of people who want to achieve in whatever it is that they're doing. So I found quite a shift with LinkedIn in terms of, okay, this is it's

actually a very different place now. And I think that people like to support something that's already doing well. Right? So if your post already had 100 likes, people are more likely to like it. So is this weird like human psychology thing or people love to back the successful person. So what were you must have to do is keep going past all the no success to the point where there's something that happens and then it starts to snowball. And then what you'll see is your post something random.

That's nonsense. Everyone will be liking it because that's what they now do with your content. So it's just like you just have to keep going, keep building, keep plugging away and you will get there like I have a friend who he's been on YouTube on and off for years and now he's taking it seriously. He's posted four, five, six, seven times a day, and now he's got 2000 followers, a subscribers on YouTube. wow. Just because. Yeah. And he gets new views all the time.

He's saying to me, Dude, just stick. Through the new views, keep. Going. But I'm taking it personally sometimes, you know? And that's that's what I'm working on is I'm just going to put it out there anyway. I'm going to try to figure out why I get no views, but I can't take it personally. And it's the same thing with links and you've just got to keep putting your stuff out there, keep engaging with people, keep connecting, and it has to come. It will come. What about podcast metrics?

Do you do You pay attention to them at all? So for the the reasons for whole podcast that I do, which is a faith based podcast, that when we look at metrics once or twice a year, right, Because I don't want the numbers to become so important that I'm doing that for the numbers and that one, we've deliberately said, look, we're going to try and just be faithful with it, not look at the numbers all the time and see how that goes.

With my Dynamic Q podcast, I look at the numbers more because I'm trying to understand, am I paying good titles, am I doing these things well? Like are my videos actually resonating? So I do look at those numbers and I'm a data guy. I come from a data background, so numbers are fascinating for me. And then the podcast that I host for a company called Tech Talent, that's always looking at the numbers, right? Because a company based podcast as well.

So for those two podcasts, yeah, we look at the numbers and but for the question, what I read, I can't tell you how many listeners they get right now we look like once a year. Wow. So as a, as a tech guy, podcast metrics must drive you nuts because it's so hard to actually get all the data in one place. Like, is that. Yeah, I mean, that's got to kill you. It's it's very frustrating.

I think it's symptomatic of the fact that podcasting is still crazily early in terms of you don't have all the stuff around it to make it really easy. Even when we start the Christian podcast, like three years ago, we had to get someone else to help us to update them to have a distributor because it was really hard to do. You have to be quite techie to really do it, but now you know, you can go on anchor, do it real easy. It's so much easier.

Things like Riverside Bike, it's so much more accessible now, but it's still early where it's still not really a full maturity for podcasting yet. Yeah, my last episode I recorded was with Caitlin Brie, who's also a podcast host, and I talked to her and I was like, So why are you just on Spotify? She said, Yeah. And I was like, Why? And she's like, I couldn't. I tried to ask and then you had to pay money or something. And I was like, No, I don't think that's going to figure it out. And it can't.

There is a little bit of a barrier to entry to getting on all the all the platforms because, I mean, I'm like, for me, I'm ADHD. So this was a hit or miss thing where either I was going to like this process and that's where I was in the hyperfocus Do the deep dive research and figure out how to do every part of it. Luckily, that's what happened. And so I was like I knew had I'm on every different platform that I know exist because I was like I was on it.

And then I, you know, heard her talk about this and I was like, Yeah, I guess it was a little bit of a struggle. Whenever I learned about the RSS feed and how you have to, you know, run into certain different pod catchers and, you know, the web crawlers like all this stuff. And I was like, I'm gonna help you out. Like, like, let me just help you. It's not that hard. Once you understand what to do, let me help you. Because in this in this podcasting game, I've heard nothing.

But as podcasting grows, it's better for everybody. And I want to I want to continue to carry that kind of community on. I want to encourage that, like people at the top of the podcast game like Joe Rogan are constantly trying to help others out and put other people on. I want to start that before I'm big. I want to you know, I want people to say like whenever I, you know, blow up or like I remember when he helped me do this. Yeah. And then they talk about me in a positive light. So yeah.

And I feel like it costs us very little. So like, for example, I've got on my website, like people are to ask me similar questions about podcasting. So I've got on my website literally this is a list of equipment that you can get. This is how you can, you know, make life easier for yourself. You can batch record, you can do this, and it's just like, it doesn't cost me anything, Spit it out on my website. You know, it's going to help people when can actually help them.

So, like I agree with you, for me, it's like, how do I amplify other people's voices? Because I'm not competing with you, You know, like there is more than enough room for all of us to have podcasts. It's it's not a competition in that way. And as much as I love being competitive, I love I love collaborative competition, you know, so we can train together, get better together, and then we go kill it, you know, that's the that's what I really want from all of this stuff.

So I'm more than happy to help anybody that I can in terms of, Yeah, help you to get your podcast out there. 100%. Yeah. And it's and it's really funny because it's like podcasting can be so niche that, you know, if you're, if you're doing a podcast well, you have a specific, a specific hook, you know, mine is authenticity and you know how it affects everybody's life. So I've got like a lot of different people in it.

So Someone will come on my show and part of my audience will be their audience, but they have a show that's like all women. So it's like it's not. I don't need I don't need to be upset that I don't have their audience because that is a show for women. And often authenticity is like, I don't speak just women, authenticity. I talk to everybody. And so me going on their on their show might make sense, might make not depends on what their format is.

But I still want them to succeed because authenticity is what I want out more. Like, if your podcast is about a thing, you should care about that thing. So if somebody is talking about the thing you're talking about, that's great. That's somebody else who shares your mission. You should want to work together and help to get the thing that you that you say is important to you. You should want to work with other people to get it out there. Right.

Because there are going to be some people that just don't like me. There's going to be some people that don't like you, so they're not going to listen to me about emotional intelligence because they don't like me. Not everyone's going to like me. That's okay. But like you said, if I want emotional intelligence to be a big thing, to be understood by everybody, I'm going to have to amplify someone else's voices who they do like because I'm not for everybody. And that's really okay.

I have a problem believing that, though. And you're just I'm telling you your voice. I don't know if you've been told this before. It's like I'm literally I want to start putting you on at bedtime and just like, Well, maybe that's my niche. Listen to me before you go to bed. And I'll help. You just start doing bedtime stories. So, like, it's just a bring it back around to sound like some of the anxieties you talked about how yours is more of the reaching out to other people.

What about in life? So you're married. Do you have kids yet? No. No. Yeah. Okay. So do you have those, like, real? I mean, all fears are real, or at least the deep, almost soul crushing fears that you sometimes ignore and want to pretend like don't happen. Or I feel like being a a top tier athlete kind of gets rid of some of that. Like you, you get used to being so used to the pressure that it becomes fuel. And that's not something that non good athletes ever really get to experience.

So I think I think for me, so when I was younger my so I had three sisters and my youngest sister passed when she was like 18. So I think for me that puts so much into perspective to be honest with you, because that is literally like the worst thing that can to someone. So I feel like everything else that you go through in life for me personally, like unless I actually die off the back of it, it's not it's not something to be afraid of, if that makes sense.

So I feel like that's really shifted my perspective on a lot of things, even in terms of like being afraid of this or being afraid of that. It's kind of like, I'm probably not going to die, you know? And if I do die, then that's a whole other thing to deal with anyway. You know, like I'm not really going to be here for the consequence. So that for me, I think takes a lot of, a lot of the fear out of things for me, I think.

So It's just I think for me it's more like making sure that I take care of my body because she passed through like a blood clot that went to her heart and then x rayed it or her lungs.

I don't remember exactly or I don't really know, But it's like that's really more what I kind of think about now is, okay, I need to make sure that I know what's going on in my body more than anything else, because I think she went to the doctors and things like that and they didn't really do, you know, they didn't do the right tests, they didn't do the right things. And then that's kind of the end result. So for me, it's just me a bit more like pushy with the doctors.

I know you need to check every single thing, everything that I've asked you for, like I want this counts for it because they kind of and this is this is one of the things that we talk about in terms of the US versus the UK, right? So in the UK we've got this thing called the NHS, which is the National Health Service, and that's like free health care for everybody, which is paid for by taxes. In the. U.S. You guys have started with, I think it's called Medicaid, is that right?

Which is meant to be some similar. Thing, but sorry, nothing is anywhere close to Universal. So nothing we have is anywhere close to universal health care. Okay. No, we're not. We're nowhere close to that. But I think you guys started on that journey. And when I was living in the States, I had I had, like, private health care and a problem that I was having in the UK when I was in the States, they gave me all the scans.

And then within like a week I had surgery because my shoulder was so badly messed up. And in the UK they said, you're just growing, your shoulder will be fine. And that was on the NHS. They wouldn't give me my scans, they wouldn't do any of that stuff in the U.S. They gave me my scans. They said, Your shoulder is so broken it will never heal. You have to have surgery. And I had it in the space of like a week.

So the NHS is great as a safety blanket in terms of okay, you've been hit by a car, you need an ambulance in America, you're going to pay for the ambulance. But in the UK you take that for certain things. Like with my sister, there were definitely things where she'd had private health care. She would have got a scan, she would have got, you know, different things that would have showed what was going on and there'd have been a better chance of her not going through what happened.

So yeah, that's where I think it affects me the most is like now with like health stuff, I'm like really pushy. I'm like, No, you need to check everything and I'm going to have private health care and I'm going to make sure that I can do everything I can do to know what's going on now. I recently adopted the two word brand of confident coward. Like I'm I'm very confident in saying the fact that I'm scared of a lot of things like, you know, I have a fear of not succeeding.

I have a fear of, you know, of people not liking me and, you know, whatever it is I've got all these different things I'm afraid of. And what has helped me is learn to be ready to be open about those things and put those things out there whenever they whenever that fear becomes something that is starting to affect the way I move throughout the world is like, okay, this is something that I'm worried about.

Like, I just want to get that out there and then that removes it off my like that confidence to share that thing is what has helped me be able to remove it off the table as a, as an actual really effective fear. So that's why I ask that question that I really like to give people the space to get that that thing that might affect the conversation from going to where it could be if it's on the table, you know, that's yeah, I just, I just find that sharing that, that deep thought, it's like,

that's me. That thing's going too heavy. Yeah, it's this. And then all of a sudden the the conversation just takes a whole different turn because it's like, yeah, I feel that, too. That's something that, you know, we have in common. Yeah, I just. I like to have that conversation whenever it comes up. I think I'm really intrigued by that. So is it the saying what it is kind of gives you a bit of freedom or how does how does that work in terms of. Yeah, so that's what is okay, Okay.

Yeah. It's 100% that's the it's trusting myself and trusting that I am good enough by putting that out, being being completely real and honest about who I am, what I'm dealing with at the time, whatever it is, just being being true to myself allows me to accept myself. And when I write, whenever I accept myself and, you know, give other people the opportunity to accept me, then I feel like I feel like I'm loving the real me now.

I'm loving this version of me that my parents told me I should be not loving the, you know, the firefighter, me not loving the, you know, the black man America tells me should be I'm loving my actual self because I'm I'm being real. Like I'm actually putting myself out there, not this guarded version that's, you know, protected from all these other things by dishonesty. Once again, that gives me the protection of knowing that there's uncertainty.

Like I'm putting myself out there not knowing how you're going to react. But it doesn't matter because what I can control is being genuine to myself. And it has made a huge difference in how I interact with other people because I spent a lot of time in my life like trying to people please and become the thing that I thought others wanted. And I was I wasn't any good at it. And it took me a long time to realize that people could see right through it.

So if they can already see through it, I'm already wearing my emotions on my shoulder. I'm already, you know, coming off as not like them because I'm trying too hard. I just decided to stop trying to be something else and just be myself. And I found more acceptance in that in myself and another doesn't all like people don't always like me. They're not always going to accept me that way. But that's okay because I was honest and that makes me feel much better with myself.

I think for me, where I've been really trying to practice that is in terms of like faith, because I feel like in a lot of ways Christian's got quite a bad rap in terms of being like judgmental, you know, intolerant, those kind of things. So I think I used to be quite tentative, even though faith is a really important thing to me, it's a massive part of my life. I would be quite hesitant to even say, for example, like, you know, one of my podcasts is a Christian podcast.

So I think that's where over the last probably like few years I've really been kind of consciously like because that's a big program, you know, I do that podcast every week, so it's like bringing that to the forefront in conversations. And when I meet new people, that's been something that I've definitely been working on and trying to in terms of trying to bring my thoughts out because that's such a big part of who I am. Yeah, and I definitely encourage that.

And anybody and everybody, if you have something that's a big part of your life, like don't force it on other people, but don't hide it from them either. Like, especially whenever it's a natural part of the conversation. People like to steer away from things that they're afraid that other people aren't going to accept, even whenever it's the logical place for the conversation to go.

And at that point, somebody who's being genuine is going to start to feel off about you like they're going to, you know, if they're being genuine and they're being, you know, authentic with themselves. And you are trying to steer this conversation away from this thing, that's a huge part of you because you're afraid to share it. They're going to they're going to know. It's like, that was weird.

And then at that point, that's whenever a relationship starts to branch into something different, that that being honest kind of turn it into a great friendship or a possible, like authentic relationship. And instead for me, that's where I would always branch off into, yeah, I'm probably not going to talk to this guy or like, Yeah, this guy's not going to be my good friend because like. It's so interesting.

So I've had two instances in probably the past three weeks where one of them was as part of getting made redundant. You go, I got outplacement support, so I get a coach to help me find my next role. And I was talking to him about, you know, the fact that I have a Christian podcast. And he was like, okay, well, because you've been able to say that I can say this. And so we had an amazing conversation about faith. You know, he's a Christian as well. He's it's really important to him.

It just opened up that conversation. And then there was another guy who I was talking to for another podcast, and he mentioned that he's a man of faith, right? And because he's mentioned it. I felt even more comfortable to open up in terms of what I'm doing, because that's the other thing in a professional setting, I sometimes wonder like, how acceptable is it? You know, how okay is that when I'm representing a company or something like that to bring my personal beliefs into it?

So it's just this really interesting thing of I've never seen it not open up more of a conversation, whether good or bad, you know? Yeah, mostly good find. For me, that thing has been ADHD has been like the real thing. It's like whenever I mention that all of a sudden, like, I realize that the people that I like the most are also struggling with that and they're like, man, yeah, me too. And I'm like, really?

And it's like, that's, that's why we probably clicked so well is that we both struggle with this thing and, you know, soon as we, you know, jump that hurdle, now we just get tighter and tighter and tighter because that's something that it's really hard to connect with somebody on a deep level without exposing that part of yourself because, you know, my mind really does work differently than other other people's.

And whenever I'm jumping directly into the deep stuff in your life, that seems weird. If you don't understand that, like my filter is pretty non-existent. Like, you know, my, my executive functioning says, like, this is not socially appropriate. I know that up here, but back here I'm like, Let's just do it like a question. You know, let's let's get into your personal life. And all the people that I'm closest to are all they're all about that.

Like, we all love to have these conversations and we don't spend a lot of time talking about whether that's just how we get down. And, you know, that's such, such a superpower, because especially for a podcast, it's like people want to hear the deep stuff, right? And I think sometimes people are scared to get into the deep stuff, but that's what we all want to hear. That's what we're here for, is that deep connection. I completely agree.

And that is what I you know, what I agree is my superpower is the ability to, for one, go deep and help people kind of access those deep things, but also to create a space where it feels safe to talk about that stuff. And I didn't realize that, like, I've always been a people or a person that people have talked to about like deep stuff.

And I didn't realize that that's not how everybody's conversations were until like, I got much older and I started to realize like, there's not always a space to talk about how you're really feeling. And just something that I always carried around with me. And once I realized that that's what I was carrying around and what I was offering to people, it helped me develop as a person and then talk to my wife. And she was like, You know what? Be good for that podcast.

And it was like. Wow, Yeah, she was she was so clutch in that I was like, I never considered that. She's like, I thought I told you that like a couple of years ago that you should do a podcast. And I was like, You might have, but I wasn't ready for you. And yeah, now, now I'm ready for it. And I love it. Like I am absolutely just loving this process. So thinking of your friends and colleagues and you tell me a couple of ways that people describe you both true and false.

so one false one that I heard was that, like, I'm mysterious. So I was just like me like I'm a very open book. There's nothing mysterious about me but someone some like I'm someone described and then a bunch of people like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, really true. And I'm like, okay I don't accept that. But I think I'm people probably describing as very like level, like I don't get too high don't get too low, very level, very logical and probably like very curious like I ask a lot of questions.

So what you like, you know, you say you didn't accept one. How do you act like is that actually how you handle opinions? Do you actually. So when I've recently been telling people is that opinions are like closed, like you, somebody gives you a shirt and you try it on and it's like it's not something that you have to wear. If it doesn't fit, take it off. Like just take it off like in the dirty clothes, like get rid of the trash.

Like this one doesn't fit me. So is that was that how you deal with them? Yeah. I think I'm always open to hear feedback. So for me, it's like, I would love to hear what people think about me. I'm very curious about what people think about me, but then I also just have to think about like, how true is it, you know? Is that something I want to be true? So do I want people to think I'm mysterious and not really so Well, I don't know. Do I? Don't really know, but I just didn't for me, didn't fit.

I was just like, I. I'm not. I'm very open. If you ask me questions, I'll answer all your questions. So but yeah, I think it's really important to know who you are and who you want to be. And decide if the things that people are signing to fit that or not, you know, and if they don't fit it, you know, if people are telling me all the time that I'm angry, then I need to maybe change something in how I'm coming across. Because why does why do so many people think that I'm angry?

But yeah, I think you just have to be balanced with it and really assess, is it true? Is it not true? Is it situational? Is it not situational? Is there something I can do to change it or is there not? So that that's kind of how I would go with that. But I'm open to feedback. And I think it definitely changes from a from scenario scenario, you know, if you're in the workspace and you're, you know, leading a team, it's important that they not think certain things about you.

So you have to take those that feedback pretty seriously and not change per se, but implement the things that are able to see them as you truly are, you know. So it's like if people say that you're mean and you're not mean, have more conversations. So they know that like me, like I have a resting bitch face. Like that's something that I that I deal with that people might like. People have often thought I was a mean or unhappy person, but they just haven't talk.

So that means I need to talk about more so they know that I'm not. I'm this is just how I look. This is just, you know what I'm going to look like. So yeah. And but then whenever you're dealing with the opinions of people who don't actually operate in your space, then I think it's really important to just be able to say, okay, and move on, you know, whether it's good or bad, like this person doesn't operate in my space.

So I'm saying that, you know, like, I'm, I'm this, you know, monster success of this or that, but it doesn't actually affect how I move through the world. So I shouldn't take that in and wear it as a badge of pride because, you know, that's going to falsely inflate your ego because they don't actually know anything about what you're doing. And I feel like this is something that I think about before I give feedback to other people. Is is this just an US thing or is this a wider thing?

So, for example, you know, let's say that I shout out my wife, for example, right? I need to know that feedback because if I'm shouting at my wife, I'm going to shout other people, right? So is that feedback that's going to help me in other situations as well, or just between you and me?

Because you might not like a certain word that I use, but if everybody else doesn't care about that word, I need to be mindful about that feedback in terms of, Well, this is a Bruce thing, you know, Bruce doesn't like it when I use that word. So I know that with Bruce, for example, I don't use the word, but it's not going to hurt me outside. But I feel like there are certain things that we do at home or at what that actually when you do those things, it's never acceptable.

And that's to be honest, that's the feedback I focus more on when I'm giving it to people. I'm thinking, okay, is this just a meeting? Is this just something that bugs me or do I see this happening in other situations? And what it impacts them? And then I try and give that feedback so that it can be helpful holistically and not just between you and I. And I think that goes that speaks a lot to your emotional quotient because taking the time to think like, is this is this just me?

This just, you know, putting yourself first, like saying, am I the problem with this, with this issue that I have, like, I think that is, you know, that's something that I talk about, my leadership stuff, but I think it's very indicative of a high emotional quotient, is asking how you're affecting this opinion, how your affecting this decision, making yourself.

And, you know, looking at you first before you make a critique or a feedback on somebody else and, you know, taking yourself out of that equation and saying, okay, this is I know this about myself, this is something I tend to be irritated with easily or I tend to, you know, have a low amount of bandwidth for. So let me take that out. How would most other people deal with this? Okay, This person is actually doing what they're supposed to do, but maybe they don't need any feedback.

Maybe that's just me needing to work on this thing and support them better. Yeah, because I feel like we're all leaders in one way or another, right? So when I give someone feedback as a leader, that's going to impact them. And so I need to be very mindful of the impact that I'm having as I go through this life. Because if I'm not careful, I'm going to leave lots of bad impacts with people because I'm not controlling mouth, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

So you've been doing the podcasting thing since well before your your full employment started. For me, it was it was a decision that was based off of the unemployment and then built a kind of initially to reinforce my business plan and has become something that is like equal to and almost apart from my business plan. But for you as someone who was already doing it, how did you get into podcasting? Like what made you start the podcasting, right?

Like, you know, we've talked about it was it's about your your Christian faith and, that part. But like what made you decide a podcast was right for you? So the Christian podcast started about three years ago. So I've been doing that for quite a while and that was because I have one of my good friends and we have loads of these like deep conversations where we're talking about everything.

And so the podcast that we did together is really about how faith intersects with your family, with your business, with your work, with whatever it is that you do. So we would have these conversations and we were kind of like, I really enjoy these conversations. You would enjoy these conversations. Maybe other people would also enjoy these conversations.

So that's how we started the Christian podcast and we got some really feedback about it feels like I'm in the room with you guys because, you know, we're going back and forth. Sometimes we get heated about it and it feels like you're just in our house when we're having this conversation. So I was the Christian one for the the Dana miscue, the leadership one. Where that really came from was that I've been very blessed with great leaders my whole career.

From day one, I've had leaders who have challenged me, who've told me, This is how you play the game, this is what you need to do, this is how you lead. Wow. But I've talked to so many people that have had terrible leaders. So what I wanted to do with the podcast, it was create a space where people could hear from people that lead role and they could take some of these tips.

They could identify what good leadership looks like, what bad leadership looks like, go into their life, challenge the leaders that they have, you know, to be better. So that was really why I started the leadership podcast, was to make that information available to people because I actually don't have anything to sell right now. Right? So like, I didn't have a business off the side or anything like that. So I'm literally just here because there's a gap and I want to fill that gap.

So people ask me like, okay, how are you going to monetize in this? I don't know. I'm literally just here because there is a gap and I can fill that gap, you know, So that's really how I how I started the Leadership podcast. Do you have any desire to take that and turn it into leadership coaching? I don't know if it's the right thing for me, if that makes sense, because I feel like I have a lot of kind of like anecdotal stuff.

I have a lot of things that I think, wow, I've done some like reverse mentoring where I'm working with someone way more senior and I've been able to add value. But I don't know if if the leadership coaching is the right thing for me. That's something I'm I've had the thought of. But I've not I've not decided like this is the right thing, you know, I'm not there yet with that. But it's it's been a thought. But I think that it would be I think it might be a good fit for you.

I think that you should think about it some more. Why do you think it would be a good fit. And ask you why? For what? Like I think the way that you speak about it is a it's something that's obviously very close to your heart. You're very passionate about it. And I want to listen to you like I'm I'm excited to listen to what you have to say about leadership when I start listening your podcast.

I think it's really interesting and you are getting all this information collected already, like you're already doing the research. So you're, you know, whether you're meaning to or not, you're compiling information from the best leaders that you know in so many different fields. You're compiling it and you're already writing the course, you're already writing the workshop.

Every time you do an episode, you're collecting the information that's that's making you a more well-rounded researcher, a resource or leadership. Why not just take that directly to people who want to be better leaders and assist them by condensing your podcast down and your your your, your experiences and saying, This is what I wish I would have had. This is what I did have these things work. I've seen them work, I've seen people perform with them. Here's how I implement

it. To see it seems like an obvious choice to me, especially just, you know, as you're doing all this, as you've been given a newly minted amount of free time, like it just seems like, you know, I don't know. And then also you get to you get to be your own boss when you're coaching and being somebody who's married and may want to have a family. It's It's a nice thing to be able to control your own time, especially right now.

When you're young, you can work hard, you can build it up, you can do, you know, build a nice client base. And then as you start, grow your family, you can just, you know, taper off because you want to take clients that are, you know, your most important ones, the ones you've got great relationships and also only work with who you want to, you know, not you don't have to go have a crappy client who makes you feel bad. You can say, no, we're not going to do this.

And that's that's what I love about the whole the coaching industry is that you can say, Yeah, I don't think that we're I don't think we're a good fit. I'm one of the you know, I'll make a suggestion for you, like here's somebody who might better with you, but for me, like, I'm here to coach authentically. And if you're not going to be honest with me, like, we're not going, we're not going to fit well. So, yeah, I appreciate your time, but let's see if we can find some I somebody else to coach.

Right? Something I definitely think about. I definitely think about I'm as I continue my fun employment. So I really appreciate your thoughts on. Absolutely. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about today that you want to share with our audience? I think that what you've what you're kind of talking about in terms of authenticity is so, so important. And I think that there are so many people that are scared to be authentic.

And I genuinely believe that when you're authentic, that's when you're the happiest. Because like you said, like you know that everybody likes you or doesn't like you because of you. You know, like if someone doesn't like you, it's cool because I was myself. If someone likes you, I don't have to keep up any appearances because I'm just being myself. So I really love that you're doing this about authentic leadership and about people being themselves.

And I really like your idea and definition of leadership because it's so easy for leadership, leadership to be seen as this, like, glamorous athlete, you know, corporate leadership thing. It's really in the day to day. It's really, really in the day today. And I think that's so important. So I think, yeah, I love what you're doing. So thank you for doing it. I think you ask great questions. So yeah, just thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for that.

And I was like, I'm going to I was going to end it, but I just remembered I forgot a couple of questions that are important. I did not ask you how you define authenticity. I think it's really about being yourself, but also being the best version of yourself. So for me it's about how do I understand the things that will cause me problems in my general life? How do I limit those things? So, you know, I'm super competitive, but sometimes being super competitive does not help the situation, right?

So like when I'm at work and we're doing like a team day or whatever, me getting super competitive does not help. It doesn't help with my family getting super competitive, for example. So how do I see those things about myself? Work on those things to become my best self but be authentic at the same time in times being myself, telling people this is what I'm working through, this is what I'm working on. Not hiding my flaws, but also not just saying these are my flaws.

Take it or leave that I'm still working on myself. But in that process I can only tell you this is what I'm working on right now. This is what concerns me right now. This is what I'm trying to figure out. This is why I can't understand. So for me, it's nothing if don't feel like you have to have everything right, you know, be willing to be wrong and be open to that. For me as being authentic. And you actually answer both my questions.

The one there, I think it's really important to to be able to view those flaws as part of your authentic self and the. Yeah, I think you really found that up nicely. It's not those people who say, Here, here I am, take it or leave it. That's not like that's, you know, that's generally kind of hard headed and generally horrible and that that that presentation of yeah this is me but it really is I said this is me. I'm a work in progress.

This is honest, you know, this is my honest representation of myself. I want to be shaped by opinions and grow, but I don't want to I don't want to wear your opinions as mine. And that that's how I say take it or leave it is that I'm going hear your opinions. And if there is something I want to work towards, I'm going to work towards it. If it's not that I'm just going to, I'm going to discard it. And, you know, hopefully you're okay with that. If not maybe we should just diverge.

You don't need to. Not everybody needs to be involved in everybody's life. I think that sometimes people treat opinions as instruction but as an opinion, this is what you think I should do. It's not an instruction. I don't have to do it. And just like as a follower, I don't have to do or as a friend, I don't have to do what you said as a leader. Just because I'm your leader doesn't mean that you have to do it right. It doesn't mean you have to take my opinion. It's an opinion.

It's not instruction. I think that sometimes people get so caught up in that, whether it's with the kids or whatever it is, it's like if you give me an instruction time and it's an instruction, they give me your opinion and I don't take it. That's okay. That's perfectly okay. I think sometimes people struggle with the two. Absolutely. Very nice, is that if people want to find more of you, where can they find you on social web? Where else?

So I'm on LinkedIn and you just search my name totally out of back and I'm on Instagram. I don't really post very much on that. And then you can catch me on my YouTube channel, which is domestic, which is due and a m I s Dash Nice Space IQ Leadership podcast and you can yeah, you can reach out to me on that. Go check out some of his shorts because they are good.

I've checked out so myself and they have low views and I don't understand YouTube's algorithm like this is like just get information here, like sharing this stuff. Yeah. So what is, what is the future? Do you know? Like, I know that things are a little uncertain right now, but do you have an idea of what the future looks like, ideally to you?

So what I would love to do in the next few years is be at the point where I have residual income coming in from various things so that I can be like, you know, like financially free where I will probably still work, but not because I have to. So at the moment I'm trying to figure out what that looks like. And yeah, I'm quite open because, you know, you said at the beginning that you're a problem solver. You love to solve problems. I'm very similar I love solving problems.

I don't really mind what it is, but I love solving problems. And I'm a firm believer in you get paid in relation to the problems that you solve. So if I can solve big problems, I can earn big money. So I'm still figuring out at the moment kind of what that looks like, what am I going to be doing? But I want to be solving big problems basically is is what the future holds.

Hopefully what I just heard is you want to solve people's leadership problems and you are going to pay big money to come in and solve your leadership problem. Man, It's it's it really just sells itself. Like you need to look at it. And I'm like, I need to. I need to be you. That sounds. Really. Especially with all the connections you've got in the in the corporate industry over there.

Like you, you know, big names like it's not like you would, you know, be going to the mom and pop grocery store to sell leadership like, you know, people and the people that you've gotten to come on your show. It's like you. Yeah, you've got some clout. So I would tap into those resources. You know, I asked a couple of people who are who you trust, a couple mentors and say, what do you think about me doing this? I bet you a lot of them would say, Yeah, that makes sense.

I will. I would definitely look into it. And I think firstly, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I think what I would like to express as well is my gratitude to Sky, the company that I worked at for so long. Because I think that sometimes when you leave via redundancy can be quite like a bitter parting. But I honestly have just so much gratefulness for what Sky instilled in me for the leaders that it gave me to follow.

Because A lot of who I am now is because I was in quite a competitive, high performance environment and I've been able to meet some of the best people, you know, in having something like Sky on your on your CV. It definitely opens a lot of doors. So I like I know I've been made redundant, but I'm super grateful, you know, like Sky is really where I grew up and it's just it's been amazing to me, honestly, it's been so amazing to me.

So I can't I can't thank Sky enough for taking a chance on me because I was coming out of university. I didn't have any qualifications like that in terms of experience. I just had my degree. But yeah, they took a chance on me and I've always been grateful for that. So even though I've been made redundant, like there are no bad feelings, I'm genuinely so grateful, you know? Absolutely. That's very cool. Well, thank you for coming on the show today. This has been absolutely amazing.

My top notch interview. Like, I really enjoyed this and I hope you did as well. I loved it. I really, really loved it. So thank you so much for having me on. And I'm looking forward to listening back, actually. Say thank you. Yeah. All right. So if you enjoyed today's episode of Please Leave a Review. I really appreciate the feedback and it helps me get heard by more listeners on the different platforms.

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