Stop Faking It 🥸: Discovering the Power That Comes From Living for Yourself with Peter Evans

I believed that my identity. Was. The guy who knew everybody, the guy who. Was a part of everything. The guy who was on every board and every committee. The guy who had relationships everywhere. He knew something I could call somebody. I could help make that happen, right? That was my identity. And that was my. Value. And both of those statements are wrong. Both of. Those statements are. False. Welcome back to Authentic On Air With Bruce Alexander, I am still your host, Bruce Alexander.

Effortless Engagement, a skill that I covet, the ability to work a room from the second you walk in. Today's guest, Peter Evans, has it. And today I want to deconstruct the identity of a natural networker. But first, today's reflection. I am unapologetically myself until I walk into a room full of strangers who have the potential to provide the connection. I am for a time completely unfamiliar with who I am.

In each one of these that I command in regular conversation completely evaporates along with my confidence. What is the recurring situation in your life that separates you from your sense of self, no matter your commitment to authenticity? How do you handle it? Do you get the results you desire? Why or why not? I'll give you this tip free of charge. Do it anyway. As disparate as I feel in that moment. I just start walking.

Then I aim towards the person and I speak to the first person on the way who seems unoccupied sometimes even before I speak. Hello. I was choking on. I step back into myself and have a natural conversation. Other times it may take an introduction or two, but at some point I always show up for myself. And if you just start the thing, you will too. Fear Evans. Alter the trajectory of my life with one phrase he may not even remember saying, I believe in you. I have not heard that in a long time.

I was especially vulnerable as I explored new responsibility for the fire department as a fundraiser and event coordinator. I was on shaky ground. I had achieved solid, objective success, but remained an outsider. I didn't know if I would ever be good enough for my peers and superiors. I needed someone to believe in me. Peter then invested time in me and further proved that he saw something in me that I did not see in myself.

The version of me that sits here today was developed largely by the support of people like Peter. People who weren't waiting. Waiting for me to become someone else. Someone I couldn't be. He believed all I was missing was the opportunity to be a success. I needed that and I took it and it would fuel me as I faced major adversity. The power of words is unfathomable. My guest today uses them efficiently, and he uses them to put good out into his not so great world.

Welcome to the show. Peter Evans. Man. What an intro. I don't know that I was totally expecting that. And you're right, I, I don't remember that that moment or. Saying those words. But hearing. You say that. And the impact that had on you. Gave me some some new spice and chills to start. So thank you for that. Yeah, very, very appreciative. It reminds me of a. Just one of my favorite TED talks. I think it's called Lollipop Moments. And it's that it's how many how.

Many people. In your life have given. You. Some words like that that just meant something to you so. Big that they don't even remember happened. And the whole thing is is about telling those people those things. So thank you, man. That's that's a really special. thank you. Like, it made a huge difference in who I am today. So it was a powerful moment in my story. Is that commonplace for you. Man? You see. That? And and just like. I don't remember that moment.

I mean, I. Remember a ton of the conversation that we. Had. And I remember kind of how we we came. Together, some of the stuff we started working. On in the beginning, Right. I can't remember that specific moment. So is it commonplace? I don't know. Not remembering. Is. Definitely commonplace, but I don't know, man. I, I, I feel like. I'm a natural encourager and that's a sincere thing I do just because. I'm. Excited when people are doing things they're excited about.

Yeah. I hope that's I hope it's commonplace, but I can't sit here. And rattle off another two or three. Times. And I really did that. I'm somewhat like that. Yeah, I don't know, man. I hope. So. I mean, yeah, I hope so too. Because you have a really uncanny ability to speak power to somebody. And like I said, you're an effortless user. Words are powerful. So I appreciate. That, man. Thank you. To to refresh your memory a little bit, we went to the barbecue place and Homeland on the air.

So sat down, we had a conversation talking about the board of the South, OKC Board. Of. Chamber, Chamber of Commerce and director just sitting on the board. And that to me was something I'd never it was never even on my radar. Yeah. Now it didn't end up working out, but to me, the fact she had the confidence in me to, to even put my name up for that was a big deal. And I asked why? Why did you even think about it? And you said, Because I believe in you. That well, I mean.

And I'm sure that as you go down this road of of identifying authenticity and some of the people. You will meet. In this podcast on this journey and some of the people you've already met to this podcast. You you you'll probably agree that. You cross paths with people sometimes and you just know, like this is a sincere person trying to do their best, trying to put. Good out in the world right? And that was pretty evident from the start. And I just I enjoy being around those people.

I don't know if anything will ever. Come from it. I don't know if we'll ever, you know. Do something together, make something together. But I'm going to be in your corner. Going to be there to help. Out when you need me. And and having having had that much more over the past couple of years has made a huge difference.

I mean, it really has going from having friends who just, you know, want to party and drink to having, you know, having colleagues and people in your network who are really who are really rooting for you. It makes all the difference in the world. Absolutely. And you can. You can actually envision yourself being successful that it helps never somebody else's it. Yeah, absolutely. So let's let's rewind a little bit.

Tell our listeners who aren't familiar with Peter Evans in your own words, who you are, what you spend your days doing, and why you think I invited you to be a guest on the show? Man, that has that description. That intro has changed a lot, especially over the last couple of years. For a long time. I was a guy in Oklahoma City, was extremely involved. I was I was everywhere because that was my job. I took a job. A local media company. And they said. Go out and get involved in the community.

And that's what I did and got involved and met people, joined boards. Joint committees. And for a long time I thought that. Was my. Identity. And so. When I when. I got the question of. Who are you? What do you do? It was always that right. That led me. To. The Police. Athletic League when. I was the executive director for almost eight years. And again. That was very much my. Identity, but I didn't really know any. Better. I was I was young. I took a job at 20. Seven, I think.

Again, just part of the networking. It became so easy to to make that my identity right. And then when I left. How in 2020, I struggled with that. That was a big struggle because there was my identity. I didn't know I was outside of that. That person who was. Involved in every every board member committee and knew everyone. When you walked in a room and. So I struggled with that for a long time. So who I who am I now? My and my faith is an. Important part of my life. I tried to be.

A man of. God, first and foremost. I'm an uncle. And that's a that's a. Huge part of my life. Shout out to my my little nephew just turned two yesterday. That's super exciting, man. And I'm just. Someone trying to figure out. How to be more of my. Authentic self. No, incidentally. If I wanted to skip ahead, a few questions because you talked about your nephew. So the board of directors for the South OKC Chamber. Yeah. And some areas are sorry.

Mount Saint Mary High School Board of Directors there. Casey Good Board of directors, the Capitol Hill Mainstreet Board of Directors, Exchange or exchange or board. Exchange of Rotary Board of Directors. And on and on and on. What is about service that gets you going so much, but also is the most important title you have. Uncle What. Is it about service. That gets me going? The one thing. I've been certain of. For a long time. Is that I feel called to serve. And.

Serve others, help people, encourage people. And so. When I when I. Am introduced to people who are trying to do something. Good. Really trying their best to accomplish something. I'm a big part of it. Just I want to be your cheerleader. I want I want to help. If I can. And if I can do something to help you in that journey, if I can take out an obstacle. Whatever, I will do it. I'm just so excited when people are doing things that they're passionate about. Seriously, all. Of those.

All of. Those boards. And. Commonplace, there's that. Those boards, we're all doing something. Really cool with. Some really great people involved and that some of my best friends through those engagements and I just want to be a part of that as one of the help. So that's where I got to. And again. Back to the identity, I thought that too. I had to be for a long time. When you got to step away from that, you know, COVID was kind of a hard reset or reset, right? Absolutely. All of that. Stopped.

And the question. Of like how much of this stuff was actually important to me and which pieces of. It do. I miss now that I can't do it. Right? What do I want? I want. To get back to what I. Want to do. Figuring that out has been a fun journey. But you asked about the title. Absolutely, Man. Too little. Too little. Nephews. They're five and two. And. They're just they're they're perfect. And when I'm when I'm having a bad day, when I'm when I'm.

In a tough spot and tough and mental spot, I just go. Be around them, hanging out with them and. Nothing else matters. And it just it's such a great way to refocus on what's important and what makes me happy. In that same vein, do you do you plan on having your own family on some point? Man, you know, I'm 38. That hasn't happened for me yet. I just. I've lived. Most of my life. Assuming that would have happened by now. And it hasn't. For whatever reason. And so it's not something that.

I'm. Going to say no to. I mean, yes, I. Would love to be a dad or love to have have my. Own kids. But I'm opening my opening my. Mind to. The idea of life, maybe going. In different directions. So we'll see what comes there. So let's let's talk about your early learning a little bit more. You spent three years at TCU and then why Texas Tech? I grew up in a. Very small. Bubble in. Oklahoma. City. And also. You got to keep in. Mind, I was I was in high school, class of 20.

Three. So I grew up in a different city than the Oklahoma City we live in now. Right. This was pre thunder. This was. Before all. Of our districts, before the food scene. Like there was just there was not a lot in Oklahoma City. I don't think anyone would would tell. You otherwise at that. Point in time. I grew. Up in a small bubble and I felt like I grew up around a. Lot of people who were pretty content in that bubble. And I wanted to do something different. And so I knew I wanted to get.

Out of that bubble. So I. Started looking for ways. To. Just go out of state for school Around the same. Time 911 happened. Big impactful moment. In our history. Impactful moment in. My life were showing up to. That to school that morning, to my. Physics class. With. John Kilty, who was my teacher at the time, recently and recently retired from. The Navy, and all. He talked about was serving his country and wanting to re-enlist and go back and serve, go back and defend our country.

And that was the first time in my life, sophomore junior high school where that was. That I was like. man, that's that's what I do. I want to serve, want to serve. And so I started. Down the path of trying to figure out how to make. Military. Career, wound up. With ROTC scholarships, have the opportunity to apply it to you. Went down there really, really, really. Enjoyed college. My grades, my attendance reflected that. So so that's why. I started at TCU and that's why I did not finish it, too.

You had some scholarship dollars that. And did. Not have the ability to keep. And you grew up in a not. Not a wealthy family and diplomacy. I won't say that. We were we're poor, but, you know, we. Always had enough. But there wasn't. A lot of extra. So the. After the ability the. The option to continue. Paying for. TCU wasn't an option for for me. And my family.

So I had the opportunity to go down the road to a University of Texas or an apartment in about 20 minutes down the road and stay in the same ROTC program and stay around my friends and family and network of people there. So stay. There and finish up that. Way. Unfortunately, the. Air Force thing didn't. Work out for me, and I had all of. My eggs in that basket. I have no backup plan, you. Know, 20 to 10 foot tall and bulletproof.

This is going to work out. It's going to be fine. It didn't work out. That was my first major heartbreak in life. Didn't work out. But fortunately, I had. Had some people in my life. Namely a guy named Tony Tyler, who believed in me. Who was talking to him when it was all. Going down, when it. Was becoming clear that the Air Force wasn't going to be an option. For me. And he said, Come back Oklahoma City to work for me. He said, I just I want you to be part of our company.

And when you say Tony Tyler, that's Tyler Media. Yes. So that's that's Tony Tyler. I'm pretty sure it was Tyler Media. That's yeah, Yeah. When when. We first made. Our. First start building our relationship, I didn't know who Tony Tyler Tyler Media was, but that was just one of. The. Happiest events in my life. So yeah, Tony said, Come back and work for me. I said, What's the job? What do you want me to do? He said, I don't know. We'll figure it out. Just come back. And so I showed up.

You can move. Back Oklahoma City and show up to my first day at work at Tyler. Media. Not knowing what the job was. What I was getting paid, not knowing anything. And I think Tony, to his credit, probably didn't know it either. And we just. Figured it out. So if you don't mind me asking, there's a lot of hinting around what what happened with the Air Force. Yeah. So I all in ROTC. You get. A. You kind of get your your placement, your job assignment. Your junior year.

And I got. A. Abm's slot, an air battle manager spot, which is like the backseat of the AWACS right. Air traffic control type stuff that sent you down a path of all the extra physicals and background checks and all that sort of stuff. And the Air Force found out that. The. Air Force and myself, we will find out the same. Time a hearing problem right here. really? It is.

Completely a. Non-issue. But I can't pass I couldn't pass the Air Force hearing testimony of that test countless times to get through it and countless times I took. It through. My own doctors a number of times, took some steroids to. Try and. Try to work on whatever has happened in. My in my ear and and never. Good assets. So there's a certain level, a certain tone in. My my right ear. Does not hear at. All to my. Left ear. Here's a fine. So I will never notice. It's truly a non-issue.

I can't pass the test. And. I feel so bad that we enter an 18 month appeals process and. At the end of that. Year, four said. No, can't do it. Wow. And got cut. So it's one of the things that at the time it was. The. Most unfair thing in the world, having this happen. To me. All that sort of stuff. But looking back, there were. A number of signs, I think that was probably supposed to come back. Oklahoma City. One of the other signs. Had I gotten. That job, I didn't. Have the.

Physical. Worked out and I had gone down the air battle manager pass. You spend roughly 80% of your career at Tinker Air Force Base. So you were coming. Back to join. Join the military to get a station at Tinker Air Force Base. So it all worked out the way you're supposed to. So, yeah. If I know if my understanding is correct, air traffic controller is kind of a path to being on some pretty bad ass units right? Yeah, that's, that's the that's the thought there.

There's plenty of plenty of activity happening in this guy. So I guess that's not always guaranteed. But. But yeah, you're. You're probably. In more of the. Thick of things. But those. Those AWACS are doing that from, from so far up in the sky that. I don't. Know that there's much of any sort. Of. Rush to that to it, but you're definitely. An impactful part. Of what's happening out there for. Sure, right? Yeah. Okay. So I mean, it's definitely not what I was thinking.

The way that you hinted around it. I was like, what is you do? What is how did the Air Force find out about it? You can't actually do this with you after all this time and money that's been invested here. But now that's really unfortunate. They you kind of set your your graduation here. This this is how it was when I was there emerging as a change over the last 20 years or so. Let me just say that the military, the ROTC programs academies will commit too many kids. And then they'll.

Have to spend some years getting kids. In. And then we'll cut too many kids and not spend some years commissioning kids. And so they can tell you ahead of time. The year. You're set to graduate is probably going to be a commission, you're probably going to be a year. And those are just the things you. Know, and when you're in a. Cut year, they just say, you. Know, don't give. Them a reason to. Cut. You probably get cut, too. There was a reason and I got cut. So it wasn't more so.

But the what a lot of people. Might not realize about the ROTC program is that that's essentially. A minor and you are being. Trained to be an officer in the military, which means. That at the. Ripe old age of 23, 24, first day on the. Job, you're going to outrank. 70% of the people in the military. So you're going to outrank the chiefs. And the master chiefs have been doing that job for 15, 20, 25 years. Right. And to carry more weight than you and who. Just are better at their job.

Than you'll probably ever be. And yet they have to call you, sir, and they have to salute you. Right. So you go through a lot of leadership training. And. How to handle that responsibility and how to. Work. With those groups. To know that the authority. That you come in with, there's. Given authority that. That's kind of given to you and your rank. And then there's. Authority. Influence, authority that you won't be. And so they were just looking back at it, not at the time, but looking back.

There's so many things I. Learned there that. Applied to so many other aspects of my life, especially. Later on. When I came in as a young civilian. Working. In the police department. In a in a group like No Authority over. Right. So a lot of things that worked out very interesting.

So in the in the fire department, we learned about command presence and having heard a little bit more of your your training, that makes sense because you had that you have that that that effortless ability to kind of like exist with confidence in a room that's the command presence and that's, you know, that's a good little look into how that exists for you. And you know, maybe you don't fit in, but that's that's the way it comes across to people who are in the space with you.

So that's the first hint. That's how you get there. Military training. Well. I'll tell you, it's you say it's effortless. It's definitely not effortless. The other thing. That surprises people. Who only know. Me in those settings. Is that I'm. Very much an introvert. I am I've. Always said that I'm an introvert who gets paid to be an extrovert. Right? I'm an introvert with extrovert tendencies and so, you know, especially. Let's look at the. Rooms. You see me in the places you've seen me.

Work the room, right? When you say. That. Those are relationships that have been cultivated over years. Right, Right. So it's taken me a long time to feel comfortable in that space. But we. Walked into a. New room. Of people today. I'd probably be the guy on the wall, you know. A couple of grab a drink or some food. And if I find someone to talk to, great. If I have. An. Opportunity to to leave 20 or 30 minutes in also.

Great. So, I mean, and that's that's one of the bigger tricks I use is like no somebody there. Yeah. If you if you can just know any one person there even if you're not like the best of friends, just have somebody you can walk in and talk to pretty quickly and established. It's like establishing dominance, you know, Hey, this is my party. You know, even though it's not. Even if you have a touchstone.

Yeah, I feel comfortable in case things go sideways and you feel totally out of place like this person knows me, I can talk to them. Well and. Take that a step. Further. Once you do know someone, help someone who doesn't know someone. Right. And all the way. Back to Tony, my time with Tony Tyler. I spent my first year on the job shadowing him. If he was in. A board meeting. If he was on a business meeting, he was in a networking. Meeting. Wherever Tony was, I was with him.

And that's that's all my job was for first year. Just follow. Tony around. You do what. Everyone needs. And. You talk about working. Around. Tony's. He's he's kind of a master of that. But it's he's a very sincere guy. He's a very relational guy, same sort of thing. It's he's, he's. Walking in a room that with. Relationships that he's probably cultivated over years and years and years of, of service and being his. Real. Authentic self. Right. But Tony's great. At remembering who you are or.

Remembering something about you, right? So you. Automatically feel like. Hey. I'm I got some value in this guy, right? When he sees something in me, there's a relationship there. I can I can trust this guy. And. He's great about saying, Hey, have you met this person? This person is into this stuff. You guys. Might both like. This. Topic, right? About this thing. You're doing this, He's doing this. You guys should know each other so great. About helping people connect that way.

And that's what he did with me for the first year. Hey, guys, this is Peter. He really likes doing. This is really good at this. Hi, Peter. This is so-and-so. Here's what I heard. You might really like that because you do this. And just I. I jokingly say. He. In Mr. Miyagi. Gave me a little bit. Just a year of. Him doing. That with me and taking me into every room. And then at about the year. Mark, he told most of those groups that he was stepping away from that that position. Of being.

Community, facing. And then I was I was their guy. Did you know that before? I did not. I did not. okay. Yeah. And you know, Tony. The South Chamber Board just said. I'm I'm on the board. I'm never been on the board. What I do don't belong in that room. What do I what's. Going. On? And he just gives me his little Tony smile and said, you'll figure it out. And I walk into a board meeting with. 30 people that I spent the last year getting. To know and didn't even know.

Didn't even. Realize it didn't. Know it was. Me. So. Yeah, Tony, I. There's a. Big. Aspect of. My life. I know I am a. Treat people, the way I treat people. From. A lot of things I learned from. Tony. So, I mean, it sounds like he invested. I mean, he definitely invest a lot of a lot of time, money and, you know, how long did you stay with me? So my. Relationship with Tony goes. Back long before that. He went to Mass in my high school. He went to Mass in my high school two years behind me.

Where. I was on the basketball team. He's on the basketball team. I'm sorry. Behind you. This is younger than I am. No, sorry, sorry, older. Okay. I was like. No, no, no, sorry. Older than older than us. His class of 88. Okay. But I played. Basketball and there was it was pretty routine when I was there playing basketball. That older alumni would come back and. Practice with us a few times a month and just beat up on us. Right. And just grown men come in high school kids. I be. Another one.

And Tony was one of those guys. And Tony was. Yeah. I got to play with the Varsity as a freshman. Play is a very loose term. I was on the team on and off. I did a lot of play, but Tony kind of the he he gave me a lot of ribbing in. The locker room, but also he stood up for me and just he took notice of me. Very early on. And at the same time, I was going. Through. Confirmation. You have to have. A sponsor for confirmation. And. Then sign procrastinator fashion.

Just put it off to the very last minute. And we were walking out of basketball practice one. Day and you said, hey, you're you're an adult. That I know. Would you be my confirmation sponsor? And little did I. Know that was just going to start. I started my. Path down. A lifelong journey with Tony Tyler. So that was. Probably 99. I went to work for him in 2000. Nine. And I stayed there until 2013. When I left for Val. And the other cool part about it. Back to Tony, just an. Incredible.

At that time. I had been on the power board for about a year. I really fell in love with. The Police Athletic. League and they were operating. Without an executive. Director. I've never had one before. I was always just a police led. Program and the board. Had a fundraiser that will start. To do pretty well, raising a lot of money. And so they said the next step is for us to. Hire a director. Or just let's go that. Route. And that. Was early January. Of. 2012, and I started thinking about it.

And I think that's something I want to do, get better shot. So I started talking to a. Couple of people about it and. They got excited about it and they're like, Yeah, let's let's make this happen. Let's let's pull the trigger. We got the money. We know what we're going to do. We know our guy. Let's make this happen. So in January 2012, so I go have the emotional conversation with my mentor. Hey, Tony, I know. That you've been. Building up to to go down this path for Tyler Media.

But I think. You're going to go try something else. And the. Reality is Tony and I sat in his office and probably cried together for about an hour as I was talked about leaving. There, right? Yeah. January 2012. And then said. There. Want to move pretty fast. That's going to happen any day now. So let's get let's get our stuff ready right. Fast forward to April. Still hasn't happened. Fast forward to June at this point in time. We've piece all my Tyler Media obligations out to.

Coworkers. Or new hires, knowing. That I'm going to leave June of 2012. Still hasn't happened now hasn't made a decision yet. Hasn't even started the process of. Yeah of. Looking for someone yet I still saying yeah, any day now. Any day. Now. And Tony essentially let me keep. So we had a plan. Where now that I. Passed myself off to everyone else, I spend some time making sure that they knew how to. Do. The things we passed to them. After we got done. Probably in July, August, and. I literally.

Had no reason to keep my job at Tyler Media. There's there's nothing for me to do there. Powell still hasn't. Come around yet. And Tony tells me, Show up here every day, spend your first couple hours making sure nobody does anything around the office. And. Spend your afternoons out looking for other jobs. Interview talk network. Do whatever you have to do. You'll find the thing. You want to do this now. Things are going to. Work out well. And so. He paid me. For six months to go. Interview with.

Other companies, other organizations. Fast forward finally, the passing. Worked out in January. Of 13. January in. January, he. Kept me on staff at. My. Full salary for six months when. He did not. Have to do. That. So not all. Relationships are everything. Not only would I not be who I. Am without Tony, I would have nothing would have never happened. I couldn't. I. Could have gone six months. Without a. Job. Wait for that thing to come around.

Know So. So who were you in communication with that was giving you the wrong information? And I'm going to guess, having been in similar situation since. Right, there was more than one train moving at the same time. Man, it was my you know, even though I was went through military type training. And. I was. Never. Actually in that day to. Day work life. Right. So this is. My. First time venturing into that city government pace of movement. bureaucracy. And when they say any.

Day now, you know, and they look. Back and say. We got. That position hired. In a year. That's probably lightning speed. To them, Right. Coming out of the for profit world where any day now. Means. Next week. Yeah. We're losing money. We're losing business until this thing happens. Make it. Happen. That's not what that's not what every day now means to the police department. Right. And they just they have their ways at work and they have their their systems. They work there.

And that's what it took that long to get all their ducks in a row to to be ready to. Make a higher. In defense of city government. There is a reason that, sure, everything moves so slow. Absolutely. Because there are there are so many moving parts and so many other things that are affected by every decision that's made. And taxpayer dollars are being spent with everything. So they have to be accountable. Yeah. But working with the system is awful.

If you're a person who likes to see things get done, you know, at a pretty quick clip, that's like a large part of the reason why I continue to get in trouble is because I wanted to get sucked out now. And, you know, my ADHD says like, this is the thing, we're working on work until it's finished, right? That's not the way that the government works. You work on to order until you get to a point where you can present it to someone who can make decisions.

And then you wait and wait and wait and it's like, hey. You know, the. The system I was in where to work on something until we can person someone who can make decisions for that person, how to present it to someone and to make a decision. That person Yeah, same. So up the. Chain. Up the chain of the chain. Right. And again. Not meant to. Be a knock on anything. It was just different than what I was used to. And so had. I had. I understood that. Better. At the time.

I would have described the situation better. But I took their. Any. Day now as a as a redo any day now, or it was not so. And when we talked at length about the learning curve that existed for both of us, just coming from non, you know, military or paramilitary backgrounds, going into it and being in these administrative positions is is definitely very difficult to to learn. Sure. And it's easy to struggle.

I probably shouldn't struggle as much as I did because I kept making the same mistake just because, you know, not out of impatience, but out of ambition. Yeah. Wanting to wanting to and wanting to be successful. Yeah. And that's, you know, it can be a dangerous thing. My mind. Was impatient. The surety man. Immaturity might have been part of it. Looking back again. You you. Know, I took that job at 27. Had. Probably did not have. The relevant. Experience to get that job.

But there were some people that believed in me. Some people who were in my corner cheer me on. The other really, really cool thing. That happened at that time. Was when I. When I finally got the job, my first time to sit down. And meet. Then Chief Bill City, he said. Do you know how many. Emails I've got from people in Canada telling me. That. We need to speed this up and hire. You? And I was like. What are you talking about? I don't know. What you mean. And he rattled. Off people from.

All over Oklahoma. City or reached out to him because they had a relationship, was they knew someone. They knew him. From something. Saying, hey. You guys have an opportunity to hire this kid for this thing. Do it. Wow. And those weren't those weren't things I asked for. Those are things I expected. And again, just. Knowing that I had that kind of. Support behind me that. I had had no idea about. Even still in this. Moment, choking up a little bit. Wow.

So that kind of leads me down another path. Yeah. You've had a lot of really great support all through your career as you've, like, worked into this new position. Yeah, I don't know if this is still true, but you kind of it kind of seemed like you weren't really living up to the hype because that's still true. But elaborate on your question for me. You have you kind of seemed like there was some uncertainty about you really fulfilling your potential. you mean. I had expressed that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Man goes back to that. Identity thing, right? Like I. I believed that my. Identity was. The guy and everybody. The guy who. Was a part of everything. The guy who was on every board and every committee. The guy who. Had relationships everywhere. If you needed something, I could call somebody. That could help you make that happen. All right. So that was my identity and that. Was my. Value. And both. Of those statements. Are wrong. Both of those statements are false.

Right. I didn't know that at the time. Back to that immaturity, perceived invincibility. But that when I. Got to a place in my life, when it was. Too much. Is too much to carry. There's too much anxiety. There were too many plates spinning. And I couldn't do it. Because I'd set up. An unsustainable. Trajectory. Right? I got to. The place. Where I couldn't do it anymore. I suffered. I went to a dark place, man, because all of a sudden. My identity and my value.

Things I'm not good at because look at this thing that dropped over. Here. Look at that thing that didn't get done over there. Look, that thing that I. Told someone I would help with, that I could not work. I wasn't good. Enough to help with. All of a sudden. I'm not good enough. And that struggle, I struggled there. I spent. I. Loved. I loved. Right. I still do. But I. Probably spent in my last two and a half, three years there.

On a. Personal mission just to prove that I was good enough to do it. It was not. It was not enjoyment in that. Right. There was no. Was not being me being my. Authentic self. That's not me being in a healthy place. It's me doing everything. I can to hold on to this facade. Of I can do it all. Again. I just didn't. Know any better. I thought that. Leadership meant I got to do. Everything and the. Buck stops with me. I make every decision passes or fails because of me. And then I take.

Those successes, ideally only successes, and they come back to my support system and my board of directors, my team, and say, look at look at this. Look at what we did. Look at what we got through. Right. Looking back. I missed out on such an incredible resource because I. Had I have. Such incredible community champions on my board of directors. And I. Rarely ask them for. Anything. Guys that could spend. Any amount of money on anything they wanted in the world.

On my board, I had people with relationships everywhere. The city. That have called in any. Sort of day or. Any any time of day, right. I had just. Jamie one genuine people on my board. And I never asked them for. Anything because. I thought I had to do it all myself. And then again, that's just that's not what leadership is. And it's not it was just unsustainable and unhealthy. And so, again, the last couple of years I spent. My. Time just trying to prove to to

myself, to everyone else that I was good enough to do. It, beat me down a lot. Those those a rough time period. So in that period, if I understand this correctly, the responsibility in your mind was all on you. And. The failures were all on you, but the success spawned everybody. Yep. Wow. I mean, that's because I mean. Even though I was a part of it and I was a. The leader. In many cases, I was never. Comfortable with the Hey, look at me. Right. Like it was it was a team win, a team effort.

But if something failed or something broke. It was and. This would take this heat. For everybody. Else. Yeah. Of course that sounds pretty hard. Again, back to me just believing that's what that. That's where my value came in. Because here's everything I could do to take a burden off your shoulders without replacing it with another word. So. So what did that dark place look like? Man? A lot of isolation. I mean, there's there's anxiety, there's depression, There's. Really, really.

Really negative thoughts that just just go to two bad places. Yeah. And again, in the guy who. Knows everybody and is involved in everything, I can't show up. To your board meeting and with with. That kind of attitude. Right. So not. Only was I caring. That. I also didn't feel like I had any place to show. It again, even though I had. Guys like Tony Tyler still in my corner, I would have. To carry that burden with me all day and. Has since. I couldn't let anybody know.

I can tell anyone, so we can talk about whatever the the. Exact extreme opposite of authentic is. Right? Like I was showing up. Every day being a. Completely different person. And. Absolutely not myself. I needed help and I couldn't tell anybody about it. And that's I guess I've talked about this in depth, that authenticity is not just about showing the best side of you to everybody. It's about whenever you are, when you're struggling, get it.

And of course, it's not for everybody to know your struggles, but those people who care about you and invested in you, it's about showing, Hey, I'm struggling. Yeah, I'm giving. As Derrick and I talked about, giving your friends an opportunity to the friend, understand them, have a chance to be there for you like you've been there for them. Man Giving, giving. Your friends opportunity to to friend. It was. Probably 20 or.

18, 19, 20, somewhere in there when I finally gave my friends an opportunity to friend. Well. And that was, that was heavy too, man, because. I felt. I was coming to you saying. Hey. The person you've known over the last ten, 20 years is not the actual. Guy who I am. Is who I really am. And I had this scenario built up in my head. Where. All these. People are like. That's just too weird. That's too much, too heavy for me. Good luck to you. Right. And just just. Leave. Yeah. And me, my my.

Friends. Showed up. And continue show today in such a big way. When all that all that happened was a quote. And I'm going to butcher it. I love I love clothes. I shouldn't butcher this one, but it's something. Like people will. Notice you for. Your abilities, but people will. Love you for your vulnerabilities. Right? So pretty close as far as I remember. Yeah. And that's real, man. So. So how long do you.

How long do you think in all you were in that place where you were really covering up that, you know, we're not not the place where you were mis assigning your value, but the place where you felt like you were failing and you were hiding it from everybody. How long do you feel like you were in that place? 2017 to 2020? I don't give you the dates. Three years is a long time. And so when you finally revealed yourself to your friends.

Yeah. Was that did that feel like a NASCAR freak and just hitting the wall that it just. It. Was so a couple of things. The first person I told was my girlfriend at the time. Again, this is probably like 2017. Yeah. And she said something insanely profound to me that most everyone else will probably just say, Jeb, duh. You dummy, come on. I was having a really this is kind of when the whole thing was starting in little letter and all these thoughts and feelings I was having.

As she said, you know, you don't have to live like that, right? What? What do you mean? Of course I do. These are the cards I was dealt and I just this is the hand I got to play, right? This is. This is life. That simple statement. Led. Me down a path of counseling towards counseling, which. You know, at the time. I was embarrassed to tell people about. Was embarrassed, tell people I was in counseling. You'll see the counselor.

So if I if I had a counseling session on my calendar, I call it something different, straight up just lying about where I was going down and when I was going to counseling, because that idea of saying okay and know just wasn't on my radar. Right here I am. Now, six years later, still seeing the same counselor. And it's. It's blasted. Everywhere. If I have counseling. Leave me alone. I'm in counseling right now. I've got time for you. If someone's not dead, do not call me. I'm in counseling.

I've become. Such an advocate. For in mental. Health counseling. Something. That. You know, thankfully, we think we've come out of. Most of the stigma around that sort of stuff. And people are talking about this now, but we're still going to talk about it a. Lot more, especially men, you. Know, raised in. A I'm I'm. Part Hispanic. I was raised by the Skanks side of my family. I think you see a lot.

In. Minorities of here's how here's how you're supposed to act, here's how you're supposed to let emotion out. And I'm sure everyone. Minority or not, says, Yeah, I was raised with some of that too, our society. So I'm sure it's not. Unique. To to me and my situation. To a man. We're going to talk about a lot more about mental illness and navigating dealt is. A big deal. So I started going to a counselor in 2017. And it took.

Three years of counseling before I could tell my first friend, Tony Tyler, coincidentally. Took him to. Lunch at Charleston's and 240 and. And. Cried to the entire thing. I'm and everyone I. Said this to another great friend of mine was Allen West, who's been a friend of mine. For. Ten years now. I told her to another buddy, all my buddies. David, who it's been one of. Our best friends for 20 years. I'm terrified to tell these people. Of. Here's who I really am. I need. Help.

Every one of them not only showed up and friend it in a big way. But they all said. Like, Yeah, me. Too. Like. I get that way sometimes, too. I'm also afraid to talk about it. So thank you for opening the door so we can talk about it now. The buddy drew a guy that assaulted here. Same. Sure thing. And just thank you. That we can talk about these things, right? Yeah. So I. Don't know. These people say, yeah, me too. That was such an incredible wait. Off.

Because. You know. That anxiety, that depression. All of the. Factors that just multiplies that. Feeling. And for me at least. All of the isolation. I feel feeling that what I'm what I'm carrying and what I'm going through. Is so unique to me. You wouldn't. Understand it. For. Anyone else is like. yeah. I completely understand it. Here's my scenario Is my situation. That sounds just like that. I need help too.

So for three years of counseling was completely was one of the main goals the entire time to be able to be honest with your friends. No, man. No. But the first goal and the tougher one, the Be honest with myself. Yeah, that's. I mean. Hey, you should be your friend. I don't mean to be. No. And that's me in the. Real long time. I wasn't my friend, man. I. I grew up in a in a. Place where I had to take a lot of responsibility. Really early. I had to. Start protecting people. Really early.

I always had to look out. For other people and never. Learned how to say. I need a little help. I don't feel good today. I don't. So right. I can't do this today. Can you help me? Just wasn't there. Right? And this again. Not a knock on anyone. It's just just an aspect of how I was raised right. Taking that into life and that to us from a value comes from value comes. It comes in a place where. I'm going to be. There when I say I'm going to be.

There and I'm going to help you in what you're trying to do, right? And I'm not going to ask you for anything in return. So yeah. My my very first battle in. Counseling was. Learning, unlearning that right and. And accepting. And believing that I'm good enough the way I am and All right. Like I'm we've all. Got good days and bad days and we got things we do well and things we don't. Do well and either way I'm good enough Yeah and.

Even today, man, I mean, six years in the counseling, there are days. That I believe that more than other. Days. Right, Right. So I can't. I won't pretend like. I got to do that journey and. I'm, I'm. There and it's good every. Day. Right. But there are coping mechanisms. I've healthy coping mechanisms. I've learned and I know who my people are that I. Can reach out to. And I'm having a really bad time. And I'm still in counseling with the same guy. So yeah.

And then there really is no end to that journey. You know. There's not. It's I've talked multiple times on the show about we just keep trying to improve the version of ourselves that we show up as. And you know, it takes different, different stops along the way to help improve that version and counseling for you. Maybe it maybe a six month part of it. It may be for the rest of your life.

And, you know, I just encourage anybody to to see counseling and get what they need, especially if you're in that dark place where you are, you feel like you're doing it all alone. You're not like you don't have to. Yeah. Absolutely. And fortunately or. In a place now where it is talked about. A lot more, there are. Resources. Out there that people didn't. Have 20 years ago. You know, there are a lot of a lot of. My trauma, a lot of my hurts. Come from the kind of family environment.

I was raised. Around. Right. And there was a time that. I cared a lot of I associated. A lot of blame. And that is your fault. You did this. Right. But now, as a. 35 four year old. Realizing that. This people that I held. Blame towards for so. Long were 35 and 40 year old people who. Were. Struggling, who had no outlet. They didn't have resources, they weren't encouraged to talk about it. They were just doing the best they could. And then they're encouraged not to talk about it. Right.

I mean, it was an especially in the minority community. Right. Talking about mental health is not something we do for our parents generation specifically. And, you know, even coming into our generation as men, it's still you know, it's still shaky, getting a lot better. But and so so. Let's. Self-medicate or let's find advice. That is out there that helps. Me get through this. Right. Those are the people and. Some of the people that. Hurt me. The worst. Love me, right? Like there's.

There. Is. No way. That my mom, Frances, my mom, I don't have a better relationship. I haven't had this relationship for the past 15 years now. Right. My mom's made plenty of mistakes in her life. When I was living her life with a very hard life. And then a lot. Of her mistakes. Hurt me. My mom. Has never woken up a day in her life. And thought. I'm really I'm trying to get Peter today. Right. Really going to do it. I'm going. To do this thing to make sure I hurt him.

Or. Do this thing to make sure he knows. That. I have this power and. Control over him. Right? Never once. So she has she woke up and. Thought that right. Just all the things that hurt me, there's still still pain. They're not her. Fault. She had She was trying to figure out life, trying to get there, were trying to. Make it right. And so. When he. Realized that. That that. Was more things they were caring makes that blame a lot easier to just let. Go of.

Some something that I have had to deal with. My mom and I don't have any relationship right now. I'm just. I'm like. What the heck? Yeah, okay. We don't have any relationship right now. We haven't spoken in over a year. And before that, as I was coming into my own story, I was learning that there was a lot of trauma there that had gone on unmitigated. And. It's it's hard with that familial yoke to realize that you don't have to carry that anymore.

Yeah. And if the person that you're that you're with isn't trying to improve themselves, you don't have to invite a toxicity in your life anymore. And that's that's something that I don't want people to be estranged from their families, but I also don't want people to put up with toxicity because they feel the blood is worth it. Sure, it I completely agree. And again, for. Ten years I draw a hard line. You're out of my life. We have no. Relationship. We do not talk. Period. And the thing.

That blurred those lines. Were my. Nephews. Because again, back to there'd be no blame. I want my mom to feel pain. I don't want. My mom to. Hurt every day. I wanted her to carry what she was carrying. Right. So publicity. Will there. But we still our relationship. My sister has maintained that relationship with her very close to like every day. Mom's a big. Big part of my nephews lives. Right. And I also am the man that just lives. So guess who I see now.

Way more. Often than I saw five years ago? My mom. Right. And so back to what you said. The drawing, that hard line or ignoring the familial bond there is, there can be a there can be a middle ground. absolutely. And it took me ten years to find. That middle ground. Right. Like I still have. The boundaries are very limited access to my life. The wall is not up that says you can't earn any more this time back. Go. I'll be open to that. But I still have. My. My boundaries are in place to say.

If you do. This thing, if you cross this line, I'm going to remove myself. The situation. And again, if. It doesn't, when that comes now, it doesn't come with blames. It doesn't come with it doesn't come with as much hurt as it used to come with. It's just, hey, there's my line. I got to go now. And I'll see you again. Whether it's in a week, a month, a few months. Then we'll. Be fine. We'll be cordial. And they will be good. But today, in my way, I got to go. All right.

Now, for me, it's just about not inviting it in. Yeah, I don't. I don't call her anymore. Yeah. She. She might say I'm keeping her grandkids from her, but they have a phone. She hasn't called them a single time. She stopped talking to them. Yeah. And that's, you know, it's tough. But at the same time, when she was involved in her life, there was a lot of triggers for me seeing like, she's so concerned with material things over the course of people.

Yeah. And you know, and that's hard to see whenever you're looking at your people that you've created that you're so proud of. And she's more concerned about the canvas that's got plastic on it. And don't you know, this is a only room? Yeah. You know, basically the kids are here to be seen, not heard.

And right now in a lot of a lot of those old fashioned values that her mom was very much all of about, her mom told me that she did not want to hold my oldest whenever she was born, but she was like a year and a old because she wasn't. She doesn't like kids until they become in charge of they get their own personalities. So she just had no desire to hold my kid. Yeah. And I was like, Wow, I see where it all comes from now. And I was exhibiting a lot of those same, you know, tendencies.

And that helped me see, like you had to take a hard look at yourself and be careful. Man. That's not now the truth. Also, another. Just a. Kind of a funny. Experience for me in that to to a relationship. I was in a time. Then girlfriend who who helped me go down the path. Of counseling. And at the time. My sister was pregnant with her oldest. Son. And she wanted to have a baby shower. And then my girlfriend. And I were pretty serious and she wanted to invite my girlfriend to the baby shower.

And my mom was coming out with baby shower right. And the only. Thing my girlfriend. Knew of my mom. Was this this person that I portrayed to. Her as all the hurt and all. The trauma that I have around this person is it is all based in an addiction and all sorts of other bad things. So I painted this picture of who my mom was. My girlfriend said, Hey, you know. Your sister's invited me to this thing. You know, your mom's going to be there. Do you want me around your mom?

Do you want me to go be there? I won't if you if you're not comfortable with it. And I said, you know, do whatever you want to do if you want to go for show up. So she. Went. And she came back and she was she was. A little confused. How so? How was it? What would you think? You know, house of the house lady. Shower unless you. Want to talk. That was my mom. She said I didn't meet the person I thought it was I was going to meet that. The way you described her had a true in my mind.

This awful person. Shame on me. That that's not who I met. In fact, I met the person where I think you get your personality. From and met. The person. Who. Knows everyone in. The room. Met the person who. Can. Effortlessly. Walk the room. And start conversation with. Everyone and make everyone feel like. She's their best friend. And she's. Like, I just. You two are. Twins in so many ways. And I just that was a another just kind. Of a weird moment in my life.

So what did you what did you take from that in in your understanding of your relationship with your mom? I think. That that was the first time that I really took a step back and was able to say, okay, this person I've been describing especially. And. The conversations in the scenarios I. Had in my head and only. With myself over that ten year period where we. Didn't talk, you know. You can lead yourself down. A really bad path, right?

And so I contrived a bunch of situations that were just not real. Right? And so I had this this persona built up solely based. In my. Trauma and. My hurt. That described a person that wasn't a completely accurate description. And so it was all wrong. Right. But that's not. The only. Person she was. Right. And so that seeing seeing my mom through my girlfriend's eyes and her experience and seeing those those traits that. Are admirable and are worth hanging.

On to was a nice reminder of like the story I've been telling us over the last ten years isn't the whole story. Yeah. So I. Think that was one of. The. Softening pieces. That again made it a. Lot easier to let go of some of the. Blame. And I'm going to pause for a moment to take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right. And we're back. So let's it's been pretty deep. There was a lot there. Yeah. Yeah. Just to sum up so far, we found out a lot about you.

Yeah, you're you're a pretty deep person, and there's a lot more than I thought there was. There. I'm not saying that I thought you were shallow anyway, but I thought you were. You know, outwardly you're very confident, and you're. You seem so security, a sense of self. How are you able to maintain that whenever you're you're going through all these internal battles. Yeah. And do you do you feel like that is an authentic representation of who you are?

Like I said earlier, man, COVID was. A. Wonderful reset. For for me. Personally. You know, you, you. Lost the. Ability to go out. And do things we all did. Right? World shutdown. So all these things that I do, all these things that. Were. My I my value is now off the table. And then. As those things start started. To. Slowly get re introduced. It was really easy. You know, you get that. You get this pit in your stomach of to go do that. Again or. That excitement, that thrill of man.

I really miss that. I'm glad I get to go do. That again right. And thankfully at the time with my dad in counseling for three years. I had a better idea of. Where my my, you came from. So my value was rooted. Right. When I had that in my stomach of I have to go do that again. I just didn't do it. So I love those organizations. I was on the boards of I. Love. Them still do. I wasn't there for the right reasons all the time. And so that's a that was a line I drew.

Like I'm today I'm on one board. Wow. And frankly, I'm on one board because I have. One board. As a. Very low commitment. You need me twice a year. Wow. Cool. I can do that. And I got very okay with saying no. I got to say no to this. Not not good for me right now. And so that has helped me. The moral cynic. Right? So if I if I'm. Somewhere if I'm getting involved in your thing, if I'm helping out, I want to be there. It's is is real.

So do you think you could have you could have reset those boundaries without that forced reset of having. I mean, that's there were some benefits there that. Would be. Pretty impossible to replicate. Right? There were some professional changes in that. In that same time that changed my role. And especially now I'm in Slack, now. That my community. Involvement now is. Irrelevant. To my job. My my company doesn't need me involved in the community. They're excited when I do stuff, excited.

That I'm. Part of the team, excited to support the things that I want to support. But it's not a reflection of my success in my job like it was with LBS and my other roles. So, you know. Professionally, my time of power was coming, so those changes. Probably would have. Eventually come. Or take over. Did COVID exposed a lot of who you were individually. Professionally, as organizations, as. If you were a group with good. Leadership? Probably found some really great ways to to.

Get through COVID and thrive and come out on the other end. You're An organization with bad leadership, you've really struggled. And really. Struggled to come out on the. Other end that you might not be around today, right? Professionally speaking. So I think COVID just sped up a lot of timelines that people and organizations are on. So I'm sure I would have come to this realization. I don't know if ever come to this quick right.

So you talked a little bit about stepping into the role of director of account management from Bridge Road. You know, we met shortly after you had started this new job, and I remember you saying that you were heading into unknown terrain and you were a little freaked out. Yeah. What did the transition look like for? You man, again, stepped out of community. Relations roles in organizations that were heavily based in and around Oklahoma City. Or my network and my.

Community relations. Or invaluable right. And I was I was in roles that frankly, I could probably do in my sleep was not meant to be any sort of talking statement, just an acknowledgment like I need my job. I knew how to do well. Right. And I could go do it into a role that. Was completely. Foreign to me. Not only that. You know, I was I was. Hired for that. Relationship. Building ability. But I was dropped into a virtual world. Right.

And relationship building with someone over Zoom is different in relationship with someone, relationship building someone over coffee. Or food. Just different. And it was something that. I had no background in, no background in at all. Stepping into. A world. Of HubSpot. And working with a lot of tech. Based companies and learn to speak a language that I had never I never spoke before. Right? And I had to learn to work with a type. Of person that I'd. Never worked with before.

And so I stepped into an organization and I. Come from. Places. Where, you know, I'm. Hesitant to say this because I don't like the sound of it, but I come from places where I was kind of big. Deal. I agree with that. I like I. Like saying that. But so we are right now. A step into an organization. Where I am the weak link and the bottom. So I'm. I'm miles behind everyone else here. And what we do. And that was humbling. Was really humbling. And I spent my first month or so. Thinking.

I messed up. You know, I made a mistake. I should not have done this. That was that was difficult. That was hard. And so, again, just faced with the decision. What are you going to do or. You can do in this moment, this a bit of a defining moment here, too. I go back to my comfort zone. And then I even I got a call about a. Month or two into. My current job from that. Comfort zone. Is a. Door still open if you want to. Come back. I had an opportunity to. Run away and.

Go straight back. To. What I was good at and. Just live. A comfortable life. Made the decision. Of I want. To figure this out. Right. Because. I want to be. Something that I say to myself on a regular basis as a just a hyper kind of. Reminder. On be someone who can do hard things. Yeah, I can do hard things. So saying I literally say that to myself multiple times a day, I mean, hard things.

And I have that when I. Have to have the conversation I don't have and I have to do the task that I want to do. And I have to take on a project to learn a new skill. I can do our things. Yeah. That self-talk has. Been a big deal for me. But in those moment. In that moment when the. Comfort zone saying. Come back, we. Got you, come on. Back, we'll. Make it nice and cushy, easy for. You. I remind myself again, we're doing our things to our things.

And so, so was your reluctance to go back the comfort zone? Was that about redefining your identity and separating yourself from that? That I am I relationships mentality. A little bit, for sure, but I can just count it for me, living in that. Comfort zone. I want to be pushed. I want to. I want to try new things. I want to have challenges right. And those weren't going to come in those roles, right? So I, I was faced I had to two positions. In front of me. The comfort position. That had.

A ton of security. But I was at my ceiling. Right. Or the new position. That had. Little to. Security but. Had a ceiling that I couldn't even see. Yet. So what did I want to do in that moment? I wanted to offer to better myself. I wanted to gamble a little bit. So that's that was the the deciding factor there. I'm going to go push money to see what I can do with this opportunity.

If you had not have spent the last, you know, five years previous in counseling, do you think you could have made that decision? Probably not. Now, because. So my you know that the. Decision to. Take the job I'm in. Was probably the first time I made a decision for myself. And with no. One else in. Mind. And what I mean by that. Is I was I spent so much of my life. Afraid to let other people down right. And the role I was in was, okay, keeps. And I got there.

Because of relationships. Dr. Sharma Daniel who I'm huge fan of. Superintendent. There, what he's. Done with the school district. The type of. Leader he is, the type of person he is, and just somebody I want to be around. He called me up. And said, I want you on your team, okay? CPS, here's a role. I have. And I want you to fill. It. You do it. And so I took that job and nine. Weeks later. I. Got this. Other job offer. Yeah, nine weeks. And so having to go talk to.

Shawn and say, Hey, man, I know. You just open this door for me. And you, you believe in me and you're. My biggest cheerleader. But I've got to try this other thing. That was hard because again. I feel like I'm letting you down. I don't want to let you down feeling like you down. And wrestling with those. When the second job offer came and I'm sitting there thinking. I'm going to. Take this job, or I stay where I am with CPS. The only thing.

That was going to get me to stay at CPS was, the fear of not. Wanting to let people down. Yeah, and nothing. To do with what was best for. Me, right? It was just I have to stay here, so I don't want people down. So ruin. These relationships with. People who liked me. Right. And having the ability. That I practiced and I built in counseling to say. That's. Not where my value is. My feelings, my desire, what I want matter also. Helped helped. Me take this job. Yeah.

So, yeah, I don't think I would have been able to do without that counseling. That's I mean, I feel like a big part of figuring our identities is separating. That. Other people's dreams for us from what we really want. Yeah. And, you know, I think, it's great to have people supporting you and helping you fulfill your dreams. It can get it gets dangerous. Some other people start to dream for you. Yeah. You know, as guy already done out with my kids and started to lay out a path

that I think was like, you guys do jujitsu. Great, right? So I built this whole big dream around it and then didn't want to do it anymore. It crushed me, but I had to back away and say, okay, like, I'm letting my stuff affect you. That's not what it was like, especially with your own kids. Like, that's not what it's about. And you know, friends are the same. You are there to support their their dreams, not your dreams for them. And then just like with your kids. You didn't do that with bad.

Intention. Right? He did that because you want. The best for him. Absolutely. And you think you know what that path is? And you might be right. But there are certain aspects of that there's going to figure. Out for themselves. Right. People want their own. Plans for you. There's something else I've noticed to notice. It's not rocket science. They're going to be. People at every turn until you can do something. And that's a reflection. Of what they.

Think about their own abilities, not what they think about yourself. Right, Right. Telling you you can't do that. Because I can. Do it. I know I. Couldn't do that. So you can't do that. And so I want to. Try my best never to be someone that says you can't do that, especially around kids, especially with kids, man. So that's a great thing to just take that kind of, you know, lay your hat on, like, let's not discourage these kids.

I mean, really, they have all the potential in the world to do anything until we start limiting them. Yeah. If until the age of 18 to 21 is basically our our beta, our prototype phase one version of Peter sits in front of me today. man. Let's see. 18 to. 18 to 23 or 24 was definitely version. One over my data, whatever you want to call it. There. There was a. Version from 25 to 30. So that's a prototype to us. And then probably that version from

30. Up to counseling, whatever it is that was 35 or 3016. The version three, some probably in the version for right now. That. Still kind of, you know, definitely not through counseling. Now, I think that will. Will be. An aspect of my life forever. But having a better. Understanding of my. Value and my identity. And what makes me happy and what doesn't make me. Happy and what drives me and what fills my job. Those are that's a big aspect of. Who I am now. I'm being able to say.

I know you like that thing. That's not for me. Just like it. And that's and we could still be friends. It would still be cool. So I won't do it though. If you so surprising the way this conversation is going, because, you know, I was really thinking I was going to get all these tips on. How to do. Networking and how to go network and, you know, really, I know you could still give those to. Sure. But there's a much better story here and how you actually started to live authentically.

Yeah. Well, and I. Think some of the tips apply to. Both a. Tip I give you for both ask questions. Man. The the amount of times. That people have told me that. I'm such a good conversationalist, we had such an easy conversation or something about the way I talk to. Them right. And you look. Back on the conversation. And I didn't do any of the talking. Just ask questions. Right? And I listened with intention, right? The only difference between. That networking. Person.

That you thought you knew and. The person who's sitting here now is, I'll still ask you the question. You'll still get excited about all the things. I don't have to go do. All the things afterwards right. Right. I don't have. To go sit on your. Board and I have to be part of your committee. I have to help with your project. I can be a fan. I can. I can like your stuff on social media. I can ask you for updates and get super excited about it the next time I see you. The guy before.

So like I had to go. Help if I was asked to. Help. And now I have the. Ability to say that's not for me. Or I. Don't have the capacity. Right now for him. And and acknowledging. That I've got to save some of that capacity for me. Is. Not a skill to have. I mean, that's a it's an important one to avoid burnout, for sure. And you know, what you said earlier, everybody loves to talk about themselves as somebody who's actively listening.

Yeah. Like sharing a story to someone who's not paying attention, you're not really great. And if you feel like somebody is actually interested in your story, that feels great. Yeah. So absolutely. Those are grants and great. Advice on that. That active. Listening is, is also a learn skill because again, for so. Long as. You're talking, I'm formulating my response in my head. Right. That's not active listening. I'm not I'm I'm worried. About my response and worrying. About how my

my. Ability to comprehend what you're saying is true across right. That's not what I was. Thinking and. Truly active listening. It's a skill you have to learn. It took me a long time to learn, but man, if you if you. Are excited about something, I'm sure if it's something that is. Completely foreign to me, I want to hear you talk about it. Right As a fun example. I work I work with a different level of introverts. Now. And there's a girl in my office. Who has roly. Poly.

This pet. Okay. Right. Yeah. That's a different level. This is different, Right? Right. Did you know are. Multiple species. And. Here's. Here's what they are. Usually you eat and and. This girl can go on for days about. Early. At least. I'm never going to have a. Local is that they're going to do it right now in my interest I'll sit there and listen to her talk about it. All day. Yeah Fascinating when she talks about it because she's so excited about it. Yeah, that's such a cool thing.

Not something I'm ever. Going to do, right? Probably never going to help you do this. Probably never going to get. Into any sort of. Roly poly related projects with you. But I'm. Super excited that you're doing this and super excited that you found this thing that you. Enjoy, and I like. To see you get excited. So tell. Me. Is learning to just be interested in not so much in the topic, but just in the excitement of the speaker.

Is that, is that a learn skill well or is that something that's always been there for you? You know, I think that's always been I think that part of it's always been there. The learned skill was just being able to share and accept it. And move on and not having. To help out and to make this better. What's my how can I prove to you that. I can add value to what you're doing? Right, Right. The value I can. Add to some of the conversations I'm in now is that I think that's really.

Cool excitement and great. Go for it. Go on and keep doing what you do. And that's your what you're talking about is on the other side it really important relationship tool because I'm still, you know, over 15 years into my relationship with my wife still not great but just listening without trying to fix a problem and that's I mean that's not active listening. That's, you know, trying to be a problem solver and trying to you know, that's not what your partner needs most of the time.

Most time they're just need to be able to talk to you. And I can say that all day long. But practicing it is it is hard. Do you ever ask at. A time. And I have gotten better at saying, Hey, do you need me to write? Do you just need me to listen or do you want me to help you solve this problem? These, of course, are solution. It's hard. It's so. Hard. And it is hard. But I mean, I've had that. I've had coworkers I've had that. Conversations. With. I've had the. Relationships. That I've had.

That conversation. With a. Man. If you tell me I just need support. I can. Turn everything. Off and. Just. My my. Brain is not. Working. I am solely focused on you and the words come out of your mouth. That's it. And it's that was a learned that was a learned skill. It took practice for sure. If you tell me that need a solution. You help to. Go into to work mode. Or. Take some notes. We're going to get a plan together. But you don't usually solution or you need support. Bring it on or you got.

As in in a co-working situation, what does it look like? Just being supportive Because to me, usually if you're talking about something that you know is a some sort of conflict at work, there should you should be trying to work towards a solution. Especially when you're in the leadership role, right? You're the leader of the. Organization of the team. Or whatever you are on. Again, I felt for a long time. It was my job to be the solution. Right? And I.

Work with someone. Who was bringing an award. Who sometimes just needed to be. There, Right. Had a. Tough exchange. With one of our. Volunteers or one of my or my school's not doing or. Needed to do or. Or this thing. Didn't go the way I wanted to. She called me out. She she was saying. I, Don't. Remember what we were talking about. I remember her saying. I don't need. You to fix this. I'm just frustrated right now. I'm cool. Next time you. Don't even think something. Tell me. I won't.

That's great. Yeah. And ask me. And so. That from a. Professional standpoint, that's probably where that habit started. Hey, I know you're coming in hot right now. Do you need support in your solution? And if you need a solution, you need support. Cool. Shut my door. Do whatever you got to do. And I'm here for you. Yeah. So? Yeah. And I've talked to my wife about this. I think it's just something about how my brain works. I'm like, You don't have to ask me that question. I want to fix it, right?

Like, whatever it is, I'm talking about it because I want to fix it. That doesn't mean be unkind to me. And that's not something that she's had to work on. Issue. I do want to hear your advice or support you telling me it sucks. The thing that I going to do sucks or, you know, being unkind with your words, not helpful, but coming from a different perspective and providing support. And yeah, I want it like, please help me figure this thing out. I, I have spent a lot of time.

It's just something I nerd out over a little bit and I really. Enjoy. Different personality assessments. Right. Spend time in those both in what my personality assessment says about me. But coworkers, relationships, friends, what their systems say about them. Right. And learning. Communication styles. And the way. People process things. I had a coworker. At my. Mom technology center. Who I thought hated me, hated being right. I come to her with an idea and she's like, yeah, okay.

And we'll walk off. And we'll just never talking about. It again, right? Is she just. She doesn't like anything I. Want to try. She is not supportive. And then we. As a team, we all went through this personality assessment and she was in this group. Of people who. Just need time to process. Right. And I. Don't process out loud the process in my. Own quiet little corner. And here's how I do it, is I'll make decision that change our whole our whole communication style.

Right. So with your. Wife, kind of what I said about. Your mom or about my mom earlier and now. Your wife is over, like. I really hope I. Heard is the only that. I'm. No, actually not. Yeah, for. Sure. Never. Never. Would she really think that maybe. Maybe you are. And that sometimes. But rarely do you say that right? So again. The other thing I say is often in relationships is, hey, if I say something. That. Hurt your feelings, you have to tell me, right?

Because I can guarantee you I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it hurt your feelings. So there's a miscommunication somewhere. So I said something to hurt your feelings. Have to. Pause. Stop in moment and talk about that. Think because one of us is misunderstanding something. So let's reframe it. Let's talk. About it. So I know what I did. Hurt your feelings. Or you know what you did hurt my feelings. Right? We have to stop and talk about these things as opposed to just hanging on to forever.

And when that building building built, Right. Yeah. And I definitely agree with that model. I unfortunately can't get into that, you know, into the space where I do say things to be hurtful and something that I was raised by, you know, my parents were very mean to each other. And that's that's the model I grew up with is generational trauma. I've done a pretty good job of breaking, but it's something I have to be honest with myself about and say that conversation was not was not useful.

Yeah I was mean. You know, I said mean things and I hurt my wife, who I care about very much. And it's a continual process of being, you know, being honest and knowing that she loves me enough to accept me anyways and being and, you know, the person's like, I was an asshole. I'm sorry. Let's let's make this very clear. I can sit here in this safe podcast room with. You, with my buddy. And talk about these things and say all these nice, wonderful. Things about how you.

Should agonize towards life, the mindset you should. Have, right? In no way. Does that mean I get it right every time. Right? Right there. No way. I get it right every time. I hope I get it right. Every time I hope I have the ability when I get it. Wrong to say I messed that. Up. I didn't do that right. But even that like I do that right every time. Yeah. So much easier said than done. I mean, but the awareness is what's so important of knowing that I'm not perfect.

I don't get it right every time I'm trying to improve on it. And especially when you're talking about it, you know, you're sharing your vulnerabilities on air. It's important to to acknowledge those things. It's like, this is what I'm aiming for. And if I don't the mark. All the time. Well, that's getting back. To those learned skills. In that in that guy. You had to be everywhere. I had to have it all together. I had to be perfect all the time. We you.

Could probably guess and not perfect all the time. Right? Right. So in those times I messed up. I don't tell anybody. I won't tell until I. Have this fixed. Right. Let's. Let's hide this. Side until. I have this fix. And I know what you did this completely under control. Right? That's a I've been there before. Yeah, that's a scary place to be. Yeah, that. You know, I've made a mistake.

I'm going to fix it first, and then I'll tell people about Know know that whole time from mistake to turn it resolution is awful. Awful is terrible. Don't do that. I do not do that. Tell somebody share with somebody else and off. The worst part about it is is so often somebody else has the fix. Yeah instantly. What do you tell them about it. And you know you tell your boss about the mistake you made, you tell your coworker. And I said, I did that too. Yeah. Here's how you fix. It 100. Percent.

And so you spend time in what feels like an eternity, agonize, agonize. so the perfect word agonizes. And so. Yeah, that's. That learned skill of being able to say. Hey. I that up a mess that are really. Bad I need help. On messing. It up right now and. Pre counseling just in that. That guy who had to have it all together that. The idea of saying. I need help or. I messed up or I wasn't good enough or I did something. Wrong or bad or whatever. It was. Was unimaginable. Right.

I could. Not show you that weakness that. Is there. Right. Is absolutely. There. But I could show to you and I couldn't I. Couldn't show that to the people that I was the most intimate. With. Yeah. And that's just that's heavy, man. So I wouldn't wish that on anybody. So I'm glad you're able to come out of that as been in this, you know, this newer version of yourself. Has there been a time when being the authentic self has burned you? man, Being my.

Authentic self has burned. Me. You know, the the idea of. Like breakups. Hurt more now, now that I'm more real with you, now that that time with. Breakups happened on. One couple. Years ago that just. Messed me up in a way that I've not been hurt before. But I also opened up in that relationship in a. Way that opened up before. So there are things like that. Where. It hurts more. I just feel more of the feelings. I don't think being.

Authentic has ever burned. Me. And in those in those moments where it's potentially burned me, I gave you too much needed to imagine. You know, I kind of see that as a way to say. Thank you right? Showed me your cards. We're just we're on different bars and. Good. Luck to you. That's why I asked this question. Yeah, I ask in every episode and always that I try to, because very seldom can people think of a time when it did burn them.

And in cases where it did, it's a valuable lesson or like you said, you loved harder than you ever have before. You showed somebody more of yourself and that hurts. But I mean, in the long run, is it really a loss? Right? I mean, that to me it's a win. And yeah, it hurts. Yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, that was definitely a win. And again, thanks for talk about counseling. Talking about the hurt that. I felt there, but just the fact that I was. I put. Myself out there, I was.

Vulnerable and I felt that was a win was a giant win. Yeah. Do you did you enter that relationship as yourself or did you have to unveil that as you. I mean, it was. It was a gradual process. Yeah. I mean, it was a. Probably a year yearlong thing. And it was a, it was a slow and steady for sure. So I encourage authenticity in all things, but in relationships especially because.

Yeah. Hopefully if you start as yourself and you meet somebody who's themselves, you're going to find out pretty quickly if you click or you don't. And there's going to be so much less conflict down the road that's going to be irreparable. Yeah. Versus, you know, you start as somebody who is pretending to be this, this and that. Yeah. And as you slowly peel those things away, you change to a different person by the end of it and maybe the other person doesn't like that person.

And that's fair And it's and also you grow and you grow these processes and hopefully you grow together and sort of apart. But you know, honoring that is important. Something that has helped me in that in that. Journey specifically in relationships. You know. You saw this guy who was. Competent to work a room and. All that stuff that you said sort of this conversation right here. I'm telling you, that's. Not all of who I am right? I lost and. Where I'm going with that. But that inability or.

So that that type of relationship building that I have for a. Long time and even even here now. We talk about some things, Right. But not all of it. Was the. You might. Hear my story, you might hear parts of it think. It wasn't really deep. And so I have to say that I to see that in that relationship. Building and I. Know I told you this thing and on the surface it's heavy. And it. Might sound like a big thing.

And it is a big thing, but if this relationship progresses, we're not to have this conversation again. You know, some. Aspects of it I didn't tell you. Right. There's there's emotional aspects. There's ways it. Is. Impacting me. There are. Other things, other ripple effects that I didn't tell you. Right. So I can sit here and tell this story also like a sequence of events, right. To tell you. The story. In a matter of fact, way. For a long time.

People, especially in relationships, thought and myself to thought. I'm opening up, I'm being I'm being authentic. I'm not. I'm just telling you the surface of what happened. Right. And so I see that often now, too. And then we're talking about this thing. We have talked about again. And after that we're going to talk about it again. And after that we're going to talk about it again. Because I can't tell you this story once. And tell you every. Aspect of what.

Happened. That's that kind of takes me back full circle to the very sort of counseling. One of my. Very first session. He goes, What brought you in today? And I just lay out this whole story. Of life right? And he just said. You know, that's a there's a lot there. It's a big story. And you sat. Here and told me that with. That amount of emotion, that's not. Good. Right? You shouldn't you shouldn't be able to tell that story without emotion. That's what I want to get into.

And I you know, I showed up. Thinking, want to get there. And talk about my my girlfriend and my romantic relationships. Now I'm unhappy at work. And he's like, no, no, we're going to. Talk about this other stuff first. And Once we get through all that, we can get to girlfriends and work. And we're not. We are. Six years into it still talking about. That right? Timing.

It's my peeling the layers and authenticity to me is about choosing who gets to see the core of your onion and who gets to see the first and second layer. But being being aware of it. Sure. And not just choosing for there to be one layer goes out to everybody because that's not true. Yeah, and everybody deserves the same level of Peter right. Saying that. Is there anything else that you feel like you'd want to go deeper in right now that you want to just clarify or.

I mean, I don't know that I have anything that I want to. Miss. Nothing comes to mind. What I want to go deeper and clarify. But if you're if. You're still listening to this podcast, I mean. We've been here a while now. I didn't mean to try and be Derek's record. It was. But something I read recently and it was. Bernie Brown Power Vulnerability. She talks about the importance of time to be creative and time to play. And then how we.

As kids need more time in the world to be creative and, to play. And we. Lose. That as adults and how important. That time is, right? So if you're still listening. If you want, or if you want a good read, The Power of Vulnerability. But my. Big takeaway from that was the importance of creativity and. Play. So find. Things that allow you to be creative or allow you to play. Where. Nothing else matters. You know, I've been running a lot lately. I'm not the smallest guy out there and never.

Been a runner. But that time now. I have found a way to enjoy that time almost as my play. You know, when I'm on, I'm out. Trying to trying to get some miles in. Emails don't matter. Social media doesn't matter who's texting me, doesn't matter. I'm just. Out. And just. Do my thing out. LANE Right. And that has been. So. Rejuvenating for me. So find ways, be creative, find ways to play.

Something I found so far in this discovery of authenticity is that people who talked about their time, where they weren't really themselves, they didn't have anything they did for fun. There were there wasn't there wasn't really any fun. There wasn't room for fun, because everything is put into pretending. Now that you've come more into your own, you're finding fun again.

Yeah. And so I would definitely give credit to Vernon Brown because I've been hearing your a lot and I know who she is, I mean, and stuff. But I think that it's so important to one look at if you are having any fun in your. Life, get. To look at. If you're not, why aren't you. Yeah. And it's yeah, there's just there's it's a slippery slope. There are fine lines. I mean, I loved how I loved my time and I love what we got to build and how there was a. Time and now and it was not. Fun. And it.

Took me too long to realize I'm in a time when this is. Not fun. And this is no. Longer fun. Because how could this thing not. Be fun? I loved it. Right? This is. I'm. Getting to make such an impact and get to meet so many people and get to be part of some cool things. How is this not fun? Yeah, it's not fun. And so knowing where those boundaries are. They can sneak up on you. So this is this thing. It takes constant assessment. And. You mentioned the time where we're coming up on 2 hours.

man. Sorry. No, please don't apologize. I think it's been such a valuable conversation and really surprising and I'm so glad that you you've been so vulnerable and you've shared such a deep journey with us, because I think it's so important to hear, especially from the people who look like they've got it all together, to hear that it's it's a journey for everyone. Yeah, it looks different for everyone, but it also is the same for everyone. Yeah, we all hurt.

We all, you know, try to hide or deal with pain in different ways. But really, honesty is the path like getting to that place where you can share yourself with others, especially the people you love and be honest about it. Life gets better. Absolutely. Like 1000 better whenever you're living authentically. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So what's next for Peter? Well, today I'm going to. Go celebrate my nephew's man we'll got to turn to yesterday.

We've got a family birthday party, so, you know, I'll see my mom. I'll see some of the. Family that. Had some of those boundaries with and. So I'll do. That until. My. My cup is empty. And then I've got some some plans tonight. With. Some people. Who feel my come back up, you know. So I know I need some of both. Yeah. So that's what's what's immediately next for. Me know. Professionally, I'm kind of staying where I am. I'm enjoying this this. Path of.

Learning to do hard things that are out of my comfort zone. Out of my control. That's been a fun challenge for me. And I think that's. I think. That's as far as I can. Tell you, man. Well, I'm curious about this because you you talked a lot about your mom on this episode. You talked about your family some. Yeah. Will you tell your mom about this podcast? that's a heavy question. Because I think about it. My mom was listening all the time because I talk. About her a lot, man. I don't.

I don't know. And I don't know if I can I. Don't know how long it would take me to sit here to to formulate an answer. I don't know is an answer. It's yeah, it's okay to not know. I don't know. Yeah, I just I. Just think it's interesting because this is, you know, a very vulnerable place and people come here and feel safe enough to talk about things. That's hopefully they're they're cognizant of the implications. Her but because I don't think anybody's come in and just like trash anybody Sure.

But at the same time your mom would probably probably hurt her feelings to some degree. I mean, that's. I would be. Lying if I said that. Thought it crossed my. Mind because, I mean. Listen to some yourself there. Did I know what I'm stepping. Into, Right? And I know how you're going to promote it. All right. And so I. Knew that there are going to. Be topics that we talked. About that no. One else knows about. Yeah, that's about to be out there right? I don't know.

It just we'll see what comes of it. But thinking about like in that emotion right there. Yeah. What do you feel like? Are you, are you afraid are you excited to have that burden off that? Because like, you know, I am not the only person who thinks that to your is, you know, is a legend in networking and really is one of the most confident people who walks into a room. I'm sure I'm positive. I'm not the only person who thinks that. You know, I have. Peace.

In knowing that the people who need to know that right now know. And I also have peace in knowing. Like the people who will. Hear this and accept. It are probably the people I want to keep around right now. If someone listens this to me and that's not the dude. I thought it was this. Weird and I don't want to be around all that cool. Yeah, I. Personally, I love that fast forward, but I'm like, let's just take him to the party. Leave right. Against you. But the people who.

You know, maybe someone, something they think you were saying that because it makes it easier for me to say. Now, Yeah. Awesome. You're welcome like somebody. But how can to be in your circle. Right? That's really what I hope for. And somebody like you saying, and I feel like really leapfrogs the the level of power that that that is going to have this whole show. You know, the whole point of is to help people be more themselves.

And somebody like you who so many people think is already there, you're still working on it. So it's okay that I am, too. Absolutely. Yeah. It's another. Quote I remind. Myself of. Often the people. Who care. Don't matter. And the people that matter don't care. Absolutely. As Derrick would say, as far as. Derrick is good and good people about good people, man. I like I've been so blessed with the circle.

I've had people who are willing to support me and come on the show because they're they're wise people. They're people who've seen some stuff. And they're also kind enough to share their time with me and my audience. It would be really easy to say, I'm so happy for what you're doing, but I don't have time for. It, Right? Like Taylor Doe, who was on yesterday.

I mean, we had to do some schedule hustling to get it back on because the dude's busy, but he's still taking the time and he wants to come back on. And, you know, I feel like what we're doing here is important and I feel like it's going to be really valuable as it gets spread out there. You know, it's like I have this huge, huge listening base right now. But even if it's just one person who is able to to feel more comfortable sharing themselves with their circle, like that's, that's enough.

Yeah. As I feel this kind of come in come into a natural into your I'll just I'll bring this back full circle. I do appreciate what you're doing. I appreciate the space you're creating us appreciate the conversations you're having. I don't know what would come. Of this, but if there's something I can do to support and. Help. Find. Jamie. Ashley, I believe in you, man. Made me cry. Keep doing it and don't look at me. Keep doing it. Luckily for me, whenever enjoy something.

I really like to get into it. So I don't I don't see any stopping. Like I said that that 44% of three of are less. This is my ninth episode. Ten will be on. No, I'm sorry. This is my 10th to save the 10th episode Wednesday with JB will be 11 and as long as I can keep getting great guests like you guys to come on, I'll only keep doing it because I really love it. And I really do feel like I'm hopefully helping make the world a little bit better every time I do one.

Well, we've got a from what I know of. Your lineup so far, you've got some amazing. People and. Those amazing have some amazing people on their network. So I can see you having a long list of people here. This has been great, man. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. If you've enjoyed today's episode, give us a follow in a like and share it with someone you think might enjoy it, too. Also, check out earlier episodes to support the future creation and great content.

Don't forget to like us on an authentic identity management on Instagram, Facebook, Friends, LinkedIn. You can also head over to the authentic verse YouTube channel podcast video with bonus content and impactful clips from my conversations with these great guests. Finally, if you were striving to show up as yourself and your content, your work, your or your life, I would love to help you.

Authentic identity management does identity coaching to help you align yourself with the identity you share with the world. It's exhausting to love someone else's life, live authentically, and access the potential that belongs only to you. You can contact me on social or email at Bruce and authentic identity management dot com to up a free 30 minute consultation. Thanks again to Peter Evans for being here. That is it for today's episode. Until next time.

Be yourself and love yourself. By for now!