Big, Beautiful, But Not the Point🚫| Autism, Animals, and Autoimmune: the Many Facets of Larissa Port

What I need and what your children need for our family time is for you to be present because it's not family time if you're not present. And so I think that's another just emphasizing your point of learning about ourselves, understanding ourselves, and then being able to communicate that with our partner, who also knows and understands us, to say, Hey, I know that this is your tendency, that this is the inner voice in you that says you are not doing enough, but you need to tell that voice.

It's enough to be with. Hello and welcome back to Authentic On with Bruce Alexander I'm your host, Bruce Alexander. Larissa Port, Queen of the Homesteading Honorable Mention has blessed me with her presence in the studio today. And after today's reflection, I will have the pleasure of sharing this beautiful human being with you, the authentic audience. How much does your physical appearance affect your ability to fully be yourself? I'll make it clear for everyone who will listen.

I am not happy with my body. I don't know if I've ever been comfortable in my body. And for a long time that fact made me afraid to display anything close to a full representation of myself. I was always waiting for someone to tell me I was too fat to enjoy my life. In my last career, it happened a lot. I lost fat, loaded up on muscle, completely altered my silhouette, and I was always still too fat, too fat to enjoy a snack, a normal sized plate, a stress free day. It was unrelenting.

That helped. In the end, I learned no matter how I changed my body, people's opinions are their own. And regardless of my size, their opinions will never fit right because they don't belong on me. As far as dealing with my own internalized hatred and body dysmorphia is on the short list of what I will call active updates. Reflect on this.

And if you are letting thoughts about your body, yours or anyone else and stop you from being the version of yourself you desire to be, I encourage you to love yourself enough to be yourself. This topic is personal even more than usual, so go to all ethnic identity management on Instagram threads or LinkedIn and I will have posted this reflection with the release of this episode, and I would love to hear some of your thoughts on the topic.

I know I'm not alone and I don't want anyone else to feel alone either. Type alone in the comments. If you are struggling to find a way to love yourself as you are right now, and I will reach out to you to set up your free discovery, call and offer you as much as 40% off. If we are a good fit for me to help you step into your authentic life. The struggle is real and I want to help you move out of it. As soon as possible. Character really shows up when the struggle gets real.

Your struggle or someone else's. 2021 was one of my family's struggles. The quarantine was on, but I was already on self isolation, studying for a promotion. And in the midst of this, the murder of George Floyd, I felt socially schizophrenic. Why wasn't anyone as mad as me? Kate had been bitten by a tick and her physical and mental health was totally decimated. We went on to survive a two week power outage, an ice storm, an extended Airbnb, stay without power and just a whole lot of crap.

A lot of good stuff happened as well. Two promotions and a sold house. But at one point, due to our lack of foresight, we were almost among the unknowns. Until today's guest stepped in. Larissa described herself as a pretend home setter and semi emotionally stable human being, just taking it one day at a time. When pressed under threat of flattery, she did give me this quote. I believe humanity deserves kindness and to know that there is a space for them and I wish all humans cherish this earth.

And there it was, the space that exists between those two statements is exactly where I want to go Today. The angel sitting across from me has been to hell and back and could truly say she has had a bad go of this life. But every day she enters the same world that has charged her so thoroughly with kindness and measured and unreal humility. A mother of four Neurodivergent offspring Neurodivergent advocate, perpetual animal, foster parent and expressive creative.

This owner of a transcendent voice that has mostly kept to herself can touch your soul and song. But as most powerful when unleashed in concert with the heart, this kindness knows no bounds and a mind that effortlessly stitches a tapestry of prose that can speak confidence and clarity into the most disconcerted soul. You have inspired me more than once, to say the least, both through direct reception of your poetic words and passively watching the bravery you face life with.

You are a special human being, and I'm so happy you join me today. Welcome to the show, Laura. Support you here and that's a wrap. Then we're done. Okay. Thanks, everybody. I'm so happy you're here. I'm happy to be here. Like we have the weirdest relationship because I always feel like I never get to talk to you enough. You come over and Kate and you are very good friends, and I love that.

And I. I always hate stealing time because Kate has so many people that she really are so, so few people that she really connects with. Whenever you're over, I'm like, I also connect really strongly with your husband. So it's such a difficult thing. We both have our are people who we haven't gotten to connect with and then you're going on like Pam. We have not talked enough.

So as I told you on our text message day is like our friend day where we get to have our long conversation and we are going to be uninterrupted by our spouses and our children. And we're just going to we're going to get to know each other better and excited. Sounds great. So for everybody listening in your own words, tell us who you are, what you spend your days doing, and why you think I invited you on the show that. I as you said, I'm a mom of four kids. We do virtual school. So we are home.

But I like virtual school because all of the pressure is not on me and when I don't know how to do algebra because I barely made it through in high school, then it really helps to have a teacher who I can say I need help with this because she comes over once a week and she is great at her job. Like I'm like, I've been trying to teach my child how to do double digit multiplication multiplication board two weeks and it won't stick. And she's like, Oh, I have so many tricks for that.

It's just so neat to see like a teacher who like, you know, like that is her gift. And so I love watching her do it. And like, I'm like, I never would have thought of that. Know, like. Adults. But I'm sure she would. I'm sure she could tutor. But yeah, she's amazing and she's there and quote unquote, she's actually John's cousin, but they call her Aunt Patty. So now so more about what you spend your days and what do you spend?

So I spend my days trying to force them to complete their assignments and do chores and go outside and get sunshine and be well-rounded humans and taking them to appointments and yeah, a couple of us are in therapy ourselves right now. So that's, you know, several hours a week and it's really good.

But you know, it's more things and I have to in competitive gymnastics and so that's two nights a week our whole evening super fun to watch and like see them like, oh my God, look at my little gymnast. But you know, yeah. I asked that not to discount being a stay at home mom because that is a hard job that I do not I do not envy. I work from home. I help at home. But Kate, who runs the home, is a lot of work.

Shuttling the kids and keeping them scheduled and writing homeschool curriculum like you guys are amazing for doing that. And not offering anybody. So it, you know. Yeah. So I sometimes get frustrated like I feel like I'm not accomplishing enough. Like I'm, I'm just sitting here playing a board game with my kids and like, I, I should be doing something else. I should be working or at minimum doing something.

And then I'm like, But if I was going to go work, I would just be have to pay somebody else to do what I'm doing right now. And so I would rather just do it myself, like I would rather my kids be with me than pay somebody else to be with them so I can go do something else. And also, you're relinquishing control of every thing that they're right. They're learning their you know, the socialization of human beings is is an important task.

And it is it either falls to the parents or whomever they hire to socialize their children. Right. And I don't dismiss that at all. And that's why we homeschool and we want that responsibility for our kids. You know, we want to take the responsibility to raise good people in this world. So, yeah, thank you for also trying to do the same. And they are. I love your kids. They are great. People. Like your kids, too. Yeah. We're doing good, at least by our own accounts.

So in your own words, how would you define authenticity? I think authenticity is being genuine and being willing to be vulnerable because you cannot be authentic if you're not willing to share uncomfortable pieces or, you know, I, I can't be authentic if I'm not willing to share all of the parts of me or, you know, at least.

And that's not to say that, like your dirty laundry is for everybody, but, you know, but I, I in particular, it's funny, I had this conversation with John the other day about like it's really hard for me to like people who I feel like are really surfacing. And so, like multiple times in my life, I have had people tell me, like, I can't tell whether or not you like me. And I'm like, Oh no, Like I do like you. I just I don't like surface stuff.

Like, I don't like, like I'm not like, hi, how are you? Like, I'm like, okay, let's move on. Like, like there's no substance there for me. And so I need substance to feel like I can have a relationship with someone. Hold on a second. Yes. You know, he really wants to make an appearance. Yeah. So just the ghost. Hi, Ghost. I'm going to stop cutting out of episodes of this map. And every time I just. Yeah. Anyways, yeah, I think that's a really good definition.

I think the vulnerability is such an important part of authenticity that can be overlooked. And I think it's important that you don't like authentically this dog just loves to be part of our culture. Yeah. So what are some ways that people who know you when describing both true and false? I think people describe me as quiet, which is accurate at times, but if I know you really well, then you know it's not always accurate. I think people describe me as sometimes a know it all.

I feel like because I like just hobby like learning about things like I will just like read about interesting things or like watch a documentary about something because I just think it's interesting to learn about random things. And so therefore have a backlog of weird facts and information. And that's definitely true. You know. So then you know, like it comes out and I, I feel like sometimes sometimes it rubs people wrong. If they don't know me well enough.

I can picture you using that in the situation where you don't know the person that does. It doesn't jibe with my knowledge of you. Like, it may be true, but I guess you just didn't say anything for the first. Like, I don't know, ten times I met you, right? I'm not a big group person, so I, you know. Yeah, if I'm in a group, I will like, that's fine. I'll let other people have their time. Like, I'm not going to fight for attention or, you know, the conversation time. Like, it's not.

I think that's one of the things that impresses me most about you, is that right there is you have no desire to compete for attention and there's something so, I don't know, so admirable about that to me, because I am somebody who not purposefully, but I definitely do compete for attention and I do feel bad when I don't get it. So somebody like you who's just, you know, whenever you have time,

I yeah, I love that about you. You don't don't before you even before today, you get to talk about things, the nice things you so much. You well so I mean some of that is my personality and so some of that is conditioned. You know I'm a third born. So like, I wasn't I wasn't a prominent feature growing up because, you know, it's just third borns. So, you know, some of it's just what you learn. Yeah. And, you know, you know, you just stay that way.

Well, I'm going to skip ahead a little bit, Go ahead and get this out of the way. So we're talking about being uncomfortable with like praise and stuff like that. So Kate and I, she got in my skin a little bit about this because she saw I was going to ask you this question and I immediately assumed it was the first thing I thought to talk to you about. It's not true, but you and I are both full body people like we're bigger people.

So I wanted to talk to you about this because you are the one person I know who's been a great inspiration to me, and you seem very comfortable in your skin. And no matter what side that I've ever been, I've never been comfortable there. You know, there was a time when they were looking back. It was physically the best I maybe even could have hoped for. And I still felt so terrible inside my own body. So first of all, you have been a great inspiration.

And to not parse words like you to me were the first person who made me realize that as a real person, big and beautiful, don't have to be separate. Like, it wasn't like, Oh, she's pretty for a big girl. You're like, You're a beautiful person. And I was in all of that. Tell me about what that is like from your side. Yeah, I, I mean, I think I go back and forth between being comfortable and not comfortable. It's probably more that I just don't talk about

how I feel about it. So, you know, I've definitely related to those feelings, but I think, you know, what I try to remind myself is like at the end of the day, like that, you know, I'm living this life and so how do I want to live this life Like, you know, we went to the beach in New York and I didn't really like, you know, being on the beach in New York, but, like, I'm not going to miss those memories with my kids. So, you know, like, at the end of the day, like, what's my goal?

My my goal is to be present with the people I love. And so, you know, just trying to keep that in focus and, you know, like, yeah, there's there's a lot of criticized them and judgment that is always there surrounding us. But you know they're not living our lives. They're not, you know, nobody knows everybody. Everybody has stuff, you know. And so, you know, it's just you have to give yourself room just as much as you would give other people room.

I guess for me, I guess the big things that stick out are like my mom was a bigger woman and like, of course, thought my mom was pretty and my mom is a pretty person, but she always said things like, Well, that picture where I look like a whale or, you know, stuff like that. And she told me very often whenever I was gaining weight, you're getting kind of big and made me uncomfortable in my body, like she didn't make me anything. Nobody can make me anything.

But I felt uncomfortable in my body. And that was definitely that's, you know, once again, your parent is your main source of socialization. And for me, I was seeing a somebody who hated the body they lived in and B, put that on me and told me that you're going to end up in a body like this if you don't stop or if you don't, you know, don't snack, don't do this, don't lock me.

And my dad was similar with, you know, all the rules to not be fat and his he's just as bad with his crazy ways of dealing with, you know, he thinks that you should you don't need to eat every meal. That's one thing is said. Another one was if you basically he was doing skinny T and or skinny T was a thing and that's that's how my dad is. And there's been times when I've been most people who go to the gym would be like, that guy looks good.

And like, my dad was like, well, you're getting kind of, you know, you're not as fat, but you're getting kind of big. Like. So he still was knocking me down. I've never seen you. Like, I'm always like, you know, trying to adjust my clothes to make me less fat. That's like, it's not going to happen. Like, that's not how that works. But you just seem like you move through life in a comfort that is not familiar to me. Is that totally wrong? Um, I think I'm just good at being uncomfortable.

Yeah, I make sense because we're going to talk about that too. So let's, let's go ahead and get a jump right there. So let's talk about invisible illnesses and some of the things that you shared with me as we were getting ready for this show. But let me go to my question record. This is not my pedigree. Some touch screen. Okay. Scoliosis, near-record knee reconstructions, leaving little to no cartilage in both knees.

The junior, this disease, a suspected autoimmune disease, multiple herniated disc, a double variant copy of the MTA, the mother effort gene and that is tied to, of all things fatigue, nerve pain, migraine and chronic pain. How in the world are you sitting across from me today with a smile on your face? You just do like, oh, like dozens of. People don't smoke now, that sounds like a recipe for a miserable day every day. I mean, it's not always fun, but like, life doesn't stop.

Like, life isn't like, Oh, you're in pain today. Like, that's okay. We'll just cancel life today. Like now. Like kids still have to go to gymnastics, grocery store, lane picked up, dinner needs made, the rug needs vacuumed like, you know, you just you don't get a pass like you just you just do it so and then you take out some salt that. On average on a 1 to 10 scale. Where is your pain right now? It's decent, a fairly well managed.

I have to go to the chiropractor or like I won't be able to walk. Standing is uncomfortable. Like sitting sitting is far less painful, but standing is generally uncomfortable for my back and it just varies. I haven't had any incidents with my back in a couple of years, so like that's a big deal because, you know, I have like I have had to spend like up to a week in bed, like, you know, could not even move because I was in so much pain. And so not being there, like, that's great.

And I think, you know, I don't know, maybe that's part of the thing is like like I know how eliminate how limiting the debilitating pain is. And so like if I'm not in that debilitating pain, like I'm going to do stuff because, you know, I don't know when that's coming back. And and it, you know, you just get used to it to a degree. Like it's like, oh, like it's only level two today. Like, oh, that's nothing I can do. Whatever I want to do. Or, you know. You did you didn't skate around.

The question, what's the number on average. Average. I mean, right now. Not not because you've gotten used to it and that is taken up by two or three because you're just numb to it. If it was a five and it's still the same pain, it's still five. You just use the five now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, that's also hard to say because everybody's perception is different. You know, to me. It was probably like a 910, right? Oh, yeah. So what like compared to that, What is this?

What is the average thing? Average day right now. Two or three summers. Good Summers. Fine. Spring is harder. Yeah. And so are we talking four or five, like, pretty much every day. Yeah. Yeah, I'm literally maybe not every day, but. But days where weather is involved, like it, you know, like when the day that we had, like, really bad tornadoes, like, out in our area, like I woke up and my femur was hurting and I was like, I have never had this before in my life. Like, why is my femur hurting?

And then like, that night there was a bunch of tornadoes in our area. So, you know, it's I have an app called Weather. Well, that I really like because it helps you track and figure out what you're sensitive to. Like. So barometric pressure or, you know, allergens, the wind even like by using it like I've discovered like I'm actually sensitive to high wind days, like I will have certain symptoms on high wind days then. That change the barometric pressure. And I mean, pressure is harsher, right?

So that was have an effect on people's bodies. Yeah, I'm not I'm not entirely sure like where I fall in the range of like, you know, what numbers starts to affect me. But yeah, it's been a helpful thing to know like, you know, if I wake up and I'm like, why do I feel like crap? And I like, look at my app and I'm like, Oh, well, that's, you know, it says, I will feel like crap today because of the weather. So that's helpful. And how long have we known each other now? I'm terrible at times.

All the. Time. Aaron was a baby, like I think our youngest were one so six. Years because we're always turning seven and holy crap. So in the seven years that we've known each other, I have never once heard you complain about being you, literally Katie. But Katie taped my back up multiple times and helped coach me through what I know I felt like was pretty, pretty crappy pain. And you never once even told me, Yeah, I struggle with this, so this is why I'm able to help you.

I was just like, This is one of those things that Larissa knows I had no idea. Another one of my just weird hobbies. Yes. I literally had no idea that you dealt with pain on a day to day basis. Do you feel like that's a little bit disingenuous by keeping keeping that to yourself? Um, I personally have never thought of it that way. I, I don't know. Like, I like if I am like, oh, I'm in pain too.

Like, I don't know, it just feels which like you just declare it like it doesn't bother me if other people do it. You're like, got a shot. Of like, give other people in pain. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, you're in pain. Like, what's going on? Like, what do you need? How can I help? But I don't know, Like, I just if I complain, then I'm like, whining. I don't know. What it should be like. And we've talked about it multiple times on the show, giving your friends an opportunity to friend.

You think it would be nice to say that Larissa sounds really tough and just give you the support of knowing that you don't have to go through everything by yourself. That's that's what being a friend is. You've been there for you been a friend like that to me multiple times. You let us stay at your house for two weeks. I'm pretty sure that at time, but I'm pretty sure it's two weeks and eat your food and, you know, live with you. You, you friend the crap out of us.

So if you are going through a moment of pain, distress, depression or whatever, I would I would love the opportunity to be able to pay that back to you. I know that that's not what friendship is about. It's not about taking score and, you know, reciprocation. It's about doing those things without expecting that. But because you did, I want to. So that's just something that, you know, I don't know the answer.

Exactly. Yeah. But it's something that, you know, I question is, is toughing it out actually doing a disservice to those around you? Yeah, I mean, practically sometimes, yes. Because I have a hard time even telling John sometimes. And so, like, we had a a missed moment recently because I had slid on one of the boy's chargers on the floor and landed on it on one of my needs. And so I had a big bruise and I was sore and I was icing it.

And even even in that moment when it happened, like I'm sitting on the end of the bed, like turned away from him and he's like, like, are you okay? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm okay. Like, you know, I didn't break anything. Like, I didn't tear my arms again. So, you know, yeah, I'm okay, you know, But immediately had a big bruise on my knee, you know, it's immediately sore, but I just I don't know. I have a hard time saying.

And so, you know, we you know, as you do when you're married, have kind of a missed expectation moment because I was sitting there icing my knee and he thought, you know, maybe something else was going to happen. And so we had a talk about that later. But, you know, I had to tell him, like I almost told you, like, hey, like I actually am sore because, you know, and so I need I need to take it easy. Yeah. But I didn't want to. And so, you know. I didn't want to tell him.

He didn't want to take it easy. I didn't want to tell him. I mean, both. But, you know, I just I don't know. I felt like mad, like, you know, it's not that bad. And I'm like, Oh, just ice it a little while. I'll be fine. But because I didn't say it like, then we have this missed moment where because I didn't let him know, you know, hey, like I do need to take it easier. Then he had this expectation that something else was going to happen.

And so because I didn't want to, then, you know, we had to work through that. So it is, you know, it's tricky because, you know, sometimes sometimes it is important or, you know, like I have a an acquaintance who has fibromyalgia. And I know that in her marriage, like she has to say, like they have a daily conversation about, like, what's your pain level?

So that her husband knows, like, okay, these are the accommodations I have to make today because like, you're having a crap day or, you know, okay, like you're feeling great today. So maybe we should, you know, do that activity we've been waiting to do or, you know, we can go on an outing or whatever, like, but it, you know, it's just one of those practical things like, just like you would say, I didn't sleep well, I'm grumpy, you know? Right. But for some reason that's different for me.

Like, I just hold that a little closer. So I mean, so we can definitely say that it is a disservice, at least to your husband from just that example. And I'm sure there are plenty more where the expectations have not lined up with the result because there's a whole piece of the equation that's not being given to be factored in.

And that's, you know, when we talk about authenticity, I think it's so important to recognize that it's also saying this is where my weaknesses are, being self aware and you are you are aware of your pain. And it's not for everybody to know, but it affects your husband, then you know, and you you don't have to be like me. You don't have to whine about it. That's what I do. Like I'm very whiny about my pain. And I, you know, I wish I could curtail that a little bit working on it.

But I still I still want it to be known that I'm struggling with this. You know, my back is still, you know, I'm just sorry today it's yeah. Because it is going to affect the ability I have to do crap around the house if I the way that my back is, is I stand up to do the most menial tasks. My lower back just screams at me and it's really stupid. And I hate it because makes me feel like a ladies person entire world. Like I was lazy enough before. And so it's rough. But I think that I don't know.

I think it's just something to think about is am I giving my partner all the information necessary for them to be the best spouse that they can be? Right. Thank you. I know is a very caring person. I'm sure he would love the opportunity to be able to care for you in those moments. Like even just run your eyes like, you know, Yeah, it's my principle type today. I'm not going to take a bath. Let me run it for you. Something simple like that. It doesn't have to be a whole.

You know, we're having a funeral for Larissa's pain today. Just, you know, being aware of it and then taking steps towards that thing. That was just my take on it. Yeah. I mean, I think it's easier if it's, like, a smaller thing. Like. Like if I have a tense shoulder, like, I have no problem being like, Hey, will you rub my shoulder a little bit? But I think like when it's a more emotionally involved pain for me, like then it's like. Like I don't want to open that can like, it's just easier.

Like, I'll just keep that in there. Like, that's because if I open that can like, then I have to go through the layers and like, so that moment when I slipped on the charger cord and was falling like, you know, like I had like a million thoughts go through my head, you know, like, oh my gosh, like, am I going to turn the muscle that they moved to replace my ACL?

Am I going to like, is this the moment that I've been waiting for for 20 years to I guess not 20, 15 years to, you know, like now I'm going to have to go have surgery again. Like and like, you know, that's a lot. And I'm like, I don't know, like, just like, let's put that back inside. Like, let's not go there because that's a whole lot. Which, you know, obviously I know is not the healthy choice, like backwards. You know. That's why I'm in therapy and, you know, like working through those things

with my therapist. But, you know, it's still like that is my gut reaction. I'm like, no, like, you know, so kind of one of our, like, household jokes is like we each have a Disney song that's like our mantra, you know? And so Johns is the Encanto song from the older sister. The strong. Yeah. Pressure. Yeah. It's a good song. Yeah. But he really relates to that. Mine is also saying keep it silent or no that's that's a different thing but it's hard to conceal.

Don't feel don't let it show like that's mine. I'm like, nope. Like we we do not let people know that we're having a hard time learning. To say, let it go. Yes. So are we just ignoring the rest of that song where she goes? Yeah, for her whole her whole childhood, she was conditioned that the way you deal with it is by hiding it. And and that was my family culture, like for a lot of things, you know, you just like, oh, you have a disagreement.

Like, well, let's just each go to our own rooms and, you know, will avoid each other until we're over it. So you know, like that, that is how we process things was like you just ignore it and then it goes away because you ignored it for long enough. So, you know, don't recommend. Yeah, but. Then did not recommend. And like you said, that's why you are in therapy and it's good that you're working, you're working through those things.

I've learned through my adult life that that my tendency to bury things has been because of most of my negative experiences in life. Yeah. So now I generally, if I, if my gut reaction is to bury it, I know that that's somewhere I need to go. And I need to I need to pull all that stuff out, lay it out and have a discussion with whoever's involved. Okay. Now I've had a few discussions like that where I'm like, okay, I need to I need you to hold me accountable. Here's all the stuff.

And then a couple of days later, I was like, Here's some more stuff because I'm good at burying. Like, I did not realize how good I was, you know, just digging that hole and really getting all the stuff down there and then telling myself that that hole didn't exist and everything was okay. So I just kept finding new holes and I'm burying stuff.

I'm like, okay, but it's important to just dig that stuff back out and look at those reactions while you're doing it and see if you can pinpoint where in your story those things started to happen. And so you can kind of sort of reclaim that narrative. And once again, this is not therapy advice because I'm not a therapist, but why. I am not a mental health specialist. I do really listening to people tell their stories.

And next week on my 15th episode, I have an extremely special guest in the Off the Neck on Air Studio telling his story. Emmy Award winning musician, activist and entrepreneur J.B. joins me for an astonishing conversation. I feel so blessed to have had Oklahoma City royalty graced my show with his vulnerable, genuine journey into authenticity. So make sure to check in next episode For me. Geeking out about JB, touring with my favorite rap duo run The Jewels.

JB Talking about the expectation placed on him by rap legend Chuck D a dialog on the vision and compromise it takes to create an Emmy Award winning video, The Secret That Turned JB into an overnight Activist.

Plus so much more on episode 15 Music to Change the World Converting Expectation into Reality with JB Do not miss the opportunity to see a completely different side of a local celebrity activist and internationally respected lyricist is introspective, intelligent and grounded and truly a delight to have on the show.

If you are enjoying this conversation with my good friend Larissa, then you might also like episode two Tragedy two Comedy Facing Life Altering Trauma with Assistant Humor with Anna Rhodes, Anna and Larissa share an ability to shoulder a seemingly insurmountable load with a smirk and fire off an intellectual quip to mitigate the stress in a room. So go check that one out right after you finish this episode, which we will get back to. Right now.

It's important to reclaim the narrative and try to be a more honest version of yourself that doesn't have a bunch of skeletons in the closet. Yeah, I think where you were going before your film sidetracked you was to say that therapy is a good choice. Therapy? Definitely. We like like therapy. I tell everyone like, get in therapy.

I had a couple of friends ask me what I wanted for my birthday this year, and I said, I would like for you to get in therapy because, I mean, I started like in a joking way, but just because, like, it's been such a positive experience for me. And so I'm like, you know, I want I want everybody to have this positive experience. And, you know, there's so much taboo, like even still, you know, even, oh, yeah. I feel like in my. Culture, sure. I'm sure, including.

But from the whole, I feel like COVID reset so many different things. And one of them was like, mental health is no joke. Everybody I knew struggled with some sort of mental illness through that time. And so many people were like, Yeah, I'm seeing a counselor now. And it became so much less of a big deal. Yeah, but apparently that's not everywhere. Well, yeah, so I have family members who I've recommended multiple times, like, Hey, like, I really think you should get therapy.

Like, that would be a really great thing for, you know, helping you process some of the things that I'm aware of and the response I get is I know therapy has been very helpful for you, you know, and then refreshing on moving on, you know, like, like almost like a patronizing like. I know, I know that that that's helped you. But good for toddlers.

Right? Right. And so I, I guess a more accurate word is a certain demographic maybe on culture, you know, because it's really hard to fight with people who just want to religion everything away. You can say boomers. Well, it's not just boomers, though. I know younger people who are still, you know, because that's all they're surrounded by. That's all they know. And, you know, even ten years ago, you know, we did not have the same words, the same understanding.

So, you know, in my child's lifetime, you know, like it's gone from not I know, I understand that some of that is like my experience. But even my therapist agrees with this. She's like, no, like ten years ago, like there were not conversations about mental health or, you know, and there's there's certain religious words that are used like, you know, like, well, there's a generational curse of this. Like, okay, I mean, sure, Like, that is one way we can approach this.

The other way we can approach this is that there's a family pattern that because nobody is dealing with this keeps being perpetuated. So, yeah, we can call it a generational curse and excuse it because it's a generational curse and like, you know, like, well, you know, this is just what happens because you're part of this family. Like, yeah, that's an option.

Or we can be proactive and say, like, I'm, I'm not going to perpetuate this cycle of, you know, And so my family likes to call it a they say like generational curse of fear or generational curse of holding grudges. Like, yeah, we we can call it a generational curse of fear, or we can say like, you are a very anxious parent. And so they conditioned you to be anxious and you conditioned me to be anxious, and I conditioned my child to be anxious.

And so now we're in therapy to deal with anxiety so that we don't keep perpetuating this cycle of anxiety. And, you know, like I had to pull my nine year old out of school, I guess he was eight at the time because his anxiety was so bad he couldn't even make it through a day of school. And so, you know, like, obviously that's not great.

And so I could have just said like, oh, like it's a generational curse of fear, you know, like we just, you know, we to keep praying that it's going to go away, which like, I don't I don't want to knock anyone's belief on prayer or, you know, that's a whole other thing. But just the approach that, like, there's not much we can do other than like ask for it to go away. Right. And so that's that's been a big deal for me and my relationship with my children and trying to normalize.

But also, like, we don't have to live with this. We don't have to just, you know, keep saying like, well, this is here to stay. And, you know, we just have to deal with it. I'm going to push back just a tiny bit just because I feel like any process that is in the service of healing and growth involves accountability and honesty. If you practice religion in a way that saps you of all accountability, let go. Let God, it's not my hands anymore. Right?

And you try and you take those things to the most literal sense to where you no longer take any responsibility for what happens in your life then no, you're not going to see any growth. The same goes for therapy as well. If you go in and say the therapist is going to fix me right, and you don't do any work, then nothing's going to happen.

You know, it's just easier in that case because there is somebody telling you on a daily basis like, Hey, I need you to do the work, I need you to show up, I need you to be honest and you should talk to me. If you look at religion in a deeper sense, all of your duties are asking the same thing. We're asking you to show up. They're asking you to be honest. They're asking you to be accountable for yourself. So if you do those things,

you can pass the healing, but you have to you have to show up. And if you want that, that extra assistance, being accountable like you have to be pretty far along to do that yourself. I think therapy is a pretty good place to start and it doesn't have to be separate from religion, right? You can still get that healing there as well. And a lot of people, you know, a lot of religious community does think that they need to just let God handle it. And that's right. That's that's not how that works.

Well, yeah, we were having a conversation with someone recently who said to us, well, you just do as much as you can do and you let God handle the rest. You know, because he will like, he'll make up the difference. He'll handle the rest. Like, I mean, that's a very passive way to approach like. So I'm just going to look at my children and say like, well, I did my best, you know, I don't know. Sorry. I feel like that statement followed with intention is absolutely true.

But if you did your best, you're like, you know, I did my best. I feel like you didn't actually do your best. Well, I feel like and I feel like it's approaching it from like, well, you just, you know, like if you make mistakes, like, oh, well, you just, you know, God will make up the difference. Like, I mean, I, you know, like, that's, again, I, I feel like religion is a whole other like, that's a whole other thing where. You have a competitive race religion because your father's church.

Right. Right. So what I found is like, I've got several friends who have left some very intense religious situations. And I come from a background of my parents didn't put religion on me at all until my high school years. And by that point, I was harder on myself religion wise, if anybody else went away from it in college.

And I'm coming back much in a much more gentle way in my older years, and it's hard me to to see the people who I love struggle with it in a way where it feels like God was the problem whenever religion was. Oh no, I, I that to be clear, I am pro spirituality, I'm anti typical American Christianity. I believe that spirituality is important. And I was having this conversation with my children in the car on the way here this morning.

Actually that it you know, like we everyone deserves access to spirituality and to the spirituality that they connect with. I guess I'll put it that way. And nobody gets to tell anybody else what spirituality that is for them. And so and I think that has been kind of my walk away from it is that the one that I grew up with was very narrow minded. And I know that some of that is, you know, like everything's a product of, you know, what came before it, right?

So, you know, the church my parents were in when I was born, like their pastor got to say, I need to borrow this quilt that your grandmother made you for your wedding because I'm having guests and you have to let me use it because I asked for it and then they ruined it. And they gave her back a ruined quilt that was made from her grandmother. It's no longer alive.

And so all she has now is like a three by three piece left that was salvageable because they've ruined, you know, this heirloom that was. But she was not allowed to say no. And so, you know, what I grew up with was better than that, but it was still a product of that.

And so that's one of the things I'm working on therapy right now with my therapist is a the you know, basically like I've had people in my life gaslight me, but I also gaslight myself because I grew up with such an authoritarian lifestyle that was like, you know, well, not like you don't even buy a car as an adult without our permission because.

Because you don't know how to make good choices for yourself without our approval and without our say and as a young couple, like regularly having the conversation that like, it doesn't feel like we're the head of our own household, like it still feels like they're the head of our household, like we're not allowed to make decisions and choices for ourselves and individuate and be our own family unit. Like we're still we're just like a subheading of this family.

We're not our own family. And so having to work through that to, like, I'm allowed to think for myself, I'm allowed to make choices for myself. I'm allowed to trust myself in the decisions that I feel like or right. And so, like, that's something that my therapist regularly says to me. It's like, I didn't have your problem is just you. Second guess yourself all the time, like you're doing a good job, like you're bringing up stuff about my kids.

And she's like, I think what you said was right, and you just have to trust yourself that it was right. Like nothing you said seems off to me. I think it was a great response to that situation. I got a question and so like just those baby steps of like, okay, like I, I can trust myself. Like I can I can know that I'm capable of making decisions or, you know, knowing how to do something.

And so it's just it's been a very yeah, it's been a very interesting road and that, you know, now I have people who won't talk to me because I walked away from that and chose to try to think for myself. So, you know, because I abandoned the family and it's a you know, it's a hard, hard thing to, you know, like, this is my family. I still love these people, but I you know. This is an ingrained a very complicated relationship with control for you.

Yeah. You were controlled by your family and your religion. And now you're, you know, you're trying to take some control back yourself. You know, you said that they kind of controlled your entire family unit and that that's a lot of a lot of control to give up. Yeah, well, yeah, not just not just parents, but they were our parents, our pastors and our bosses because we were employed by a young adult program from the church for a couple of years.

And so, like there, there was not an avenue of our life that they were not, you know, in charge of or had say, over. That's messed up. It. Yeah. Codependent is a good term so you know it.

Yeah. I guess, I don't know like for me I'm really into letting trying to let go of the resolve like just being in the process of whatever it is And I can, I believe that the religious the religious counterpart to that is let go like God because if you trust the process, if you love the process, you're not worried about the result. And if you let go and like God, you are letting go, The result may not take care of it.

I believe that there are so many things that are separated into this is religious theory and this is manifestation and this is personal growth and, you know, mental health. Whenever if you if you focus on the the fundamentals of any of them, if they're they're really basically the same as do the work, enjoy getting better at whatever it is and be happy with whatever you get right.

And that's that's really been my that's been what I've been focusing on the last couple of years, What I'm really focusing on with this podcast is trying to not look at the numbers so much, not be scared of competitors or people who are, you know, Joe Rogan, who's a very popular podcaster, talks about it all the time. He's like, it is not a zero sum game. It doesn't matter if somebody else is doing well, it doesn't mean that you can't do well.

Also, it actually is better for you, as everybody does well in this thing. Specifically, it creates a better industry for podcasting. So I was starting I'm really trying to lean into getting in the podcast community and get other people on my show talk about their stuff. Everybody who's on my show, like I'm trying to like really lift them up because they take the time to be here and they really share part of themselves with me and my audience.

I think it's so important to to go for it and keep listening them up, you know, whether it's not like it's just like a friendship thing I talked about. It's not like share for sure. It's just like, Hey, what do you got going on? Let me share it for you. Let me let me be a fan of yours because I am. And that has made this process a little scary because at some point I do need to I do need to be a breadwinner again.

But right now it feels good to be in the process of something and to just trust working hard at something. Right. So, you know, that's that's my life, my $0.02 for anybody who's struggling with that phrasing of like, Oh my God or trust, the process is work hard and the results will take care of themselves. Right? Well, I think the first part of that is like the key.

You know, you have to do the work and that, you know, like any time like we've expressed dissatisfaction about like the relationship with my parents, like the responses, like, well, you don't know how bad it was, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, Like, it's gotten so much better. Like, okay, I'm I'm glad it's gotten better. Why is it not getting better anymore? Like, so we're just like, well, we feel we got somewhat better. So, you know, like, we made it, we made some improvement.

So let's just, you know, Yeah, like, good enough, we're done. And I think that's like humanity and general elections strive to always be better, to always grow to like I'm, I'm never I'm never going to achieve being a good enough human, you know, like, there's always more growth, there's always more debt, there's always more to learn. And I you know, I'm never I'm never going to sit back and say like, oh, I've you know, I've done all the things for me to do.

You know, like I'm there is nothing more for me to learn or grow in. Like that's never going to happen. And and I don't want it to like, I, I want to be the best human I can be, and I want my children to be the best humans they can be. And so I, I don't understand when that's not the goal because, you know, and I think you guys are similar, you know, like, I don't I don't want to raise crappy humans and say like, well, you know, God will do the rest.

Like, sorry, I've just passed on all of my trauma and all of my, you know, bad parenting and all of my, you know, emotional dysfunction. And then I'm just going to say, you know, well, hopefully they make it, you know. Yeah, you just made me think of. So I spoke with Regina Joy and that upset release today. And so it was on my mind. She talked about her regret for spanking her kids

and we had a pretty in-depth conversation about that. But based on what you were just talking about, when you do fall back into those patterns that you were raised with as you don't want for your family, how do you handle it? Like, do you do you immediately go into, like, paralyzing depression, though? Like sometimes I I've done that where it's like I yelled at my kids and like, I haven't that's not who I want to be.

And instead of being proactive and apologizing to make things better, I just like, clam up and don't do anything. But what's your response? Um, I think only because I've had a lot of practice. Disclaimer The amount of time this takes, you know, isn't always the same. Sometimes it's 10 minutes, sometimes it's a couple hours, sometimes it's the next day. But like, the one thing I will make sure I do is tell them I'm sorry and that I was wrong.

I want them to know that I'm sorry and I was wrong and that I shouldn't have made the choice I made. I had to do it yesterday or the day before with one of my sons. We kind of got into it over something, got into an old pattern, and I had to send him to his room to take some time to calm down. And I stepped away. And then he came back upstairs and I hugged him and I said, I'm sorry, I lost my temper. And he said, Well, was my fault. And I said, Well, I mean, you were not being respectful.

No, but it's my responsibility that I lost my temper and I raised my voice to you. That is my fault. That's nobody else's fault that I raised my voice. And so I'm sorry I lost my temper. I don't want to do that with you. And and I said, Will you forgive me? And I said, Hey, let's committee together, and then we'll sit down and try again. We were trying to do school and, you know, he just wasn't in the mood for it, you know, because what nine year old is.

And so and he was like super excited to make tea together and to sit down and like, I was doing something. He was like, aren't you going to make do with me? And I was like, Oh, like, this is like I thought this was a very simple gesture and you're like, this now. This is a big deal. And so I was like, okay, like, you know, yes, I am coming to make do with you. And so we made tea together and you know, it it was different, you know, like not you know, he's dealing with his own stuff.

And so, you know, it's not smooth, but it was better. I think that that's something I often forget to like. I apologize way more often than I'd like to admit. But that piece where you reengage with him in a way that, you know, that really neutralized any of the tension, just like, let's go make tea. It's such a simple thing. But then all the tension was it was gone. And I'm not very good at that. Like, I'm not very good at saying like, I'm like, I'm really sorry about that.

I messed up. Generally. My thing is like, I'm super patient with kids. I'm not super patient with my wife. And so we argue in front of the kids and I hate that we do that. That's a pattern that I grew up with and I absolutely hate it. And I'm embarrassed and disappointed, you know, every time we do it. And Penny takes it really hard because she's been she's grown up with it and it sucks. But I apologize to her. And there is still that tension remaining.

And, you know, that's something I need to look into, is how can I reengage in a way that is, you know, it's not like let's go get an ice cream or it's just something really simple that that helps that connect because it's really important to get that connection back on, to then rebuild on top. Of as well, because, you know, we will use the term deposit and withdrawal with our kids. That's why my mom used that term. But she was really she was just bankrupting me.

Right. And that, you know, but that's you know, if you can make ten deposits, you know, have your emotional balance at 100%, you'll have one, you know, flare up. It goes down to zero like you're you know, you're building back up. And so that's something we try to have, you know, I mean, not not necessarily definitely back to zero, but, you know, you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, you have to you have to build right away something we've been doing with our kids.

As you know, multiple of us have been going through therapy. The past year is at the end of every night. We were having like talking stick time if you're familiar with that. And initially it started with people having to share like, hey, like you did this today and I didn't really like it. And, you know, that bothered me. I wish you would have done this instead. Or, you know, hey, when I asked you to stop like you didn't listen. And that really bothered me. I felt disrespected.

Like, I'd really appreciate it if you would stop when I ask you stop. And then eventually it transitioned to just saying something positive about each other. And so, you know, and it's not forced like none of it. Nobody has to do anything nobody has to say anything to anyone. But if you want to like this space is here so you can say, hey, like I really appreciated when you played with me when I asked you like, Hey, will you play with me? You said yes right away.

And it's just those little things that build up the relationship to, you know, I think I think we feel like it has to be harder than it is secure. And, you know, we feel like, oh, my gosh, like I screwed up. Like, now I have to make a big gesture because I screwed up. You know, I have to plan and figure out how to make this better.

Like, no, you just have to do lots of little things to make them, you know, to provide that regular reassurance that I'm I'm doing my best and I'm trying to do different.

I think a big part of that is the, you know, the generation before us depended so much on guilt and fear and shame to raise us that whenever we mess up, I know I feel guilty instead of feeling motivated to be a problem solver, I feel guilty and am not immediately thinking, what should I to make the situation better, which is generally in most aspects of my life the way that I am. I am a problem solver.

But soon as I feel guilty, that fear comes in and I'm just like, Well, I don't know how to do it. I don't know. I don't know how to live and I know how to do life more right. So I think it's really important that, you know, I'm aware of that part of my mind being that, you know, that that tendency to slide into that guilt and have it stop me from being able to move forward because then I can say, okay, you feeling you feeling sorry about yourself, you know, you feel like you're getting those.

You have them because you've been a bad buddy and nobody's doing that, especially now. My kids, they're looking at me as their father and saying, Oh, what do I do? And if that's how I act, then they're to say, Oh, that's how we are. Right? And it's important to just try and be better. Right? You do a good job of that.

So your oldest I'm sorry, I was going to say the age or just you have a childhood spectrum whenever it comes to issues like this, where we're talking about emotion, we're talking about reaction. She processes all those things differently, Right? So you guys, it's hard enough just being a parent. You got this additional layer added in where now you have to speak a different language, basically a different emotional language to your son. What does that once I mean.

You know, now that he's older and we've had a lot more practice, it's easier. But there was a big learning curve. And I think the main thing I've learned with him is that, you know, for for his particular way that he interacts with the world like he feels everything 200%, you know. So physical and emotional are just yeah. I mean certain certain physical things. So like he the reason he has long hair is because he cannot physically handle the feeling of cut hair on his skin.

And so we you know, we've tried lots of things and it was just to like make haircuts as few and far between as we could. Like that was just the best way to handle it. So, you know, now that he's old enough to have preference, like he just likes his hair. Long But it originally started because I didn't want to listen to him scream just for the sake of a haircut.

So but even not, you know, starting school, like if he got frustrated, he would start to sweat and have to take all his clothes because the effort to learn the vowels was so much and so frustrating and so hard because he also has a reading disability. And so just the amount of effort it took for him was so physically bothersome that, I mean, he would literally be pouring in. Sweat had want to take his clothes off because he then couldn't handle feeling of, you know, sweaty clothes on his skin.

And so and at this point, we have no diagnosis. Like I you know, like I suspect, you know, but I've never had confirmation. And so and that that was the point that I was like, this is not normal. Like, this is not, you know, typical responses or, you know, like my child is having a hard time outside of you know, learning the alphabet is hard. Like this is a different issue here.

And so, you know, I also had to do things like communicate really, really, really clearly because I couldn't just say, hey, you know, we're going to dinner at such and such friend's house or your grandparents. Because then if I stopped and had to get gas or had to run into the store to grab a salad to take, you know, then you said we were going here, but now we're at the gas station. You lied to me. Like, why didn't you tell me?

You know, And it's like this whole huge meltdown over me not knowing like that. I just had to communicate these extra steps that I'm like, Well, the ultimate goal is we're going here. So, you know, for most people, like, it doesn't matter if you have to stop for gas on the way. But for him, it did.

And even still like to this day, like he had a argument with his brother yesterday and he you know, doesn't understand why his brother doesn't want his help or is mad at him for trying to help because I feel like one of the differences is like his motivations are more pure. Like like manipulation is really hard for him, you know, And so he doesn't understand sometimes like, well, your brother didn't want help because he was upset.

And sometimes when people are upset, they're not ready for help, you know? And then his heart is just very hurt because he was rejected and so a lot of times it's, you know, trying to calm him down and and help him work down from his big feelings. And and I love that he has big feelings because sometimes it's really beautiful. You know, he like he has this conscience, you know, like he's the Jiminy Cricket of the family. Like he, you know, like there's right in there is wrong.

And you don't, you know, you do what's right. And so any time there's like a well, like, you know, maybe we could do this like you know, no, this is what is right. You know, when we when we had our foster kids and we were trying to decide whether or not our family was still the right fit for him, for the kids.

And we were having a conversation with our children and just letting them know, like, hey like we think maybe it's time for the foster children to move to a different family because, you know, I think we were a good family when they first came into the system because, you know, we had siblings and we had experienced parents. But I think now, like they need to go to a place that can focus more on them and doesn't have four other kids already in the home.

And he had a really hard time with that because he said that's like telling them we don't want them anymore. And I'm like, I hear you like it is. It is kind of like that. And that's why we have to make so sure that we communicate what it actually is. And I feel like that's one of the differences for him, is like he can there's almost like a level of emotional intelligence that he goes because of that altruism that, you know, like you can't take.

Yeah. And so so in those moments, it's a really beautiful thing the way that he you know, or he has argued with, you know, how Jeanie hires people to go around and cut trees away from the lines. So he's like eight years old at the time and it's happening at his school and he's on recess and he goes out there and starts arguing with these men, cutting the trees and saying, What are you doing? That tree was here first. Like, it's not the tree's fault that they put power lines there.

Like you should not be cutting that tree. And they're just like, you know, like, I have no idea what to do with this eight year old arguing with them about their job, you know, And they're just like, hey, buddy, like, we didn't make the decision. Like, we just have to do what we're told to do. But he, like, could not let it go because, you know, he's like, but an injustice is happening and I have to correct it. Like, I cannot let this happen when I am here.

So, you know, eventually as teacher has to go out and it's like, hey, like, come back inside. Like, you know, we can't we can't tell them to stop doing their job, you know? But then it's a whole like we still have to work through that. Like he still remembers that years later, or like we were driving down the street recently and he like, I feel sorry for all the pine trees. And I was like, What do you mean? And he's like, Well, all of the pine trees that have to be power poles.

Like, it's not fair to them. And I'm like, I like how many other people's hearts are like, you know, I mean, I know there are other people out there, but it's not common. You know. It kind of makes me wonder, what if he's right? Like, you know, like I know that, you know, your hearts like his, right? But your mind is like, we can't do things that way. But what if, in all senses of the word, he's right and we're living this like, all wrong and we're doing things like getting in the trees ways?

I mean, our earth is telling us that we're doing things wrong, but it's whenever I think of it that way in almost makes it hard to breathe. Like just hearing that true. If you yeah, if you actually like, go down that road of like, you know, like it's I mean, I do think he's right like 100% and I love it but you know like so then am I going to change my entire lifestyle or. Is everyone right?

I mean, unfortunately, we exist in a system where it's all so interconnected and then it's just it's kind of like thinking of the enormity of the of the universe. And the universe is beyond it. And the multiverse, you start to just the weight of the of the perplexity starts to just kind of crush you a little bit like, oh, that's, that's a lot.

So in your face, is that on a regular basis with him speaking truth into your into your life and the things that are going on and having to manage somebody who sees things in absolutes and trying to talk him down into unfortunate, this world is not absolute. That must be so hard and you said something about big feelings.

And I want to I want to go back here because you're an Instagram for I love for us, which I don't know why because you guys terrorize me, but I want to I want to compliment you, say nice things. You're like, don't talk about me. Don't say nice things. You know, we're kind of like synergistic nemesis like this. Like we we don't match up for some reason. We do like that. That's what I've gotten to. But you describe the way that you feel.

Emotions in a metaphor to me about is about an artist and the tree. Can you talk about that for me? Yeah. So I, I feel like in my marriage it has been helpful to describe it that way, that, that Enneagram for experience, emotions like an artist sees the world, you know, So people look at grass and see green, They look at a tree and see brown and green. They look at a road and see gray.

Whereas an artist is going to look at that and see the different hues, the different tent, the different shade, the light, you know, the perspective, the, you know, make note of angles and lines. And, you know, it's a totally different way. They see 20 colors and a single line of a bark in in the tree. And and I feel like the way it is for me emotionally, you know, because somebody saying like, well, are you angry with me?

Maybe, you know, maybe I but I'm also stressed and frustrated and upset and tired and exhausted and excited and nervous. And, you know, it's not just one feeling ever. Like there's always layers. There's always, you know, I'm never just one feeling. And and I feel like it's helpful because sometimes I don't know how to say how I feel because there's too many layers.

And so that's like another thing we have is like, I just say like one feeling all of the feelings and like, that's a way that I can let him know, like it's too much for me to try to communicate, like the amount of emotional effort it would take for me to try to explain all of the layers I'm feeling right now is not like I don't have that emotional effort right now.

And so it's easier for me to just say, like I'm feeling all the layers or all the feelings because, you know, I feel like at least for for me in any area I'm for, because I feel like one of the other things is like, you know, there's a there's a wide variety in the way people experience their Enneagram, you know, So it's not the same for everyone and I feel like because of the nature of any room for like there's a little bit more of that feeling like I could say

this is what it's like to be an Enneagram four and every other Enneagram four is going to be like up in arms. I like that is not like me at all. And I think that's because the nature of the Enneagram four is to want to be an individual. And so like other individual can be like me because we're all individuals. So they might relate to the feeling I'm saying. But you know, I don't know.

I definitely know the cat is an anagram for and the all the emotions is absolutely the hallmark of of all of our arguments. And it took both of us so long to realize that that was a problem that we were dealing with because she would just default with the strongest one and anger was it so any like she just defaults to anger most of the time because that's what she is conditioned herself to do. And I'm like, I need more than that. Please tell me what's going on.

And she couldn't process and she felt like she had to come with the answer fast. Like I was like I was waiting. Like I was a ticking clock. Like, let's go, which wasn't really the case, but it kind of was because I would start talking again while she's thinking, because I'm ADHD and this space, I'm going to start feeling it. And it's taken us a while to learn that she can feel more than one feeling at once. By us I mean me feel more than one feeling at once. That's perfectly okay.

I don't like I'm like, I'm sure I might have other feelings that are like way in the background. There's always like a star. There's always, you know, And sometimes I don't even recognize that one star. It's like you Can I really feel anything about it? I'm much less like are much more likely to feel nothing than all the emotions at the same time. And might be the way I've conditioned myself. I don't think that's me ramping.

Not sure, but it's, you know, it's so important to understand, especially in relationships, the way that your partner processes emotions. Because if you're asking a question and expecting yourself to answer it right, you're going to be severely disappointed because she does not answer questions like I answer questions. I had to learn to ask questions that speak to her language and listen for answers and interpret them to. Me And, you know, it goes both ways.

But we're still like over 15 years into our relationship, we're still trying to speak in language that translates both ways. Right? Is work. It's a lot of work. You for it, especially with cameras. Be simple. Can it well I think it's that it's not about simple. It's about depth like. I mean it's deeper and it's not simple right.

Well, but it's not yeah I mean but it's it's not a matter of I think that's like that's the key is like I, I can't experience life one dimensionally, like I experience it and all of the dimensions at the same time, like I, you know, I'm experiencing right now and last week and worrying about next week like all at the same time I'm you know.

That that really just that peak something in my experience in my own relationship because I'm always thinking why can't you ever just be in the moment now, like for for you guys, that's not really how it works. And that is, I think, such an important, important insight because that is it's such a thing. Like just be in the moment. Well can be in this moment, but you also need to be.

And this other important moment and this moment that's coming up in order to feel what I feel whenever I'm here in this moment, or else you're ignoring a large part of yourself by trying to be in this one moment. Right? Because Enneagram, Hauser, Dreamers. And so. You're. Part of part of part of experiencing this moment is like dreaming about what this moment can create or the feeling it's fostering inside of me, what it's inspiring inside of me.

Like I am experiencing this moment, but I'm experiencing what this moment is causing for like. And so again, it's not just a one dimensional thing. Like I'm, I like, I am enjoying this moment like I am, I am present in my way, but I'm also very in tune with, you know, what it's causing in me and where it's taking me and you know, where it's leading me.

And so it's, you know, it is I know it's a very complex thing, you know, and it is equally as frustrating for us at times, I will say, because it's, you know, I, I feel like another example could be, have you seen the newer Superman with I don't remember his name. Or I know his name for sure, but I just yeah, I have.

But so the scene where in the first one he's at school and he's hearing all the voices and he goes, he goes and hides in the closet because he's hearing all of the voices at the same time. Like I feel that way sometimes, but it's with like, my feelings. And so, like, sometimes it's overwhelming for me too. And I don't like it either. And so sometimes it is really helpful to have that other voice that can say, you know, Hey, just focus on me right now.

Like, let's just deal with one thing, you know, without adding to like being frustrated at me for hearing all of the voices at the same time. Like, because, because it's frustrating for me, too. And so I think that's like, that's another helpful angle to consider it from is like, like sometimes I need help, like focusing on a single thing, like, you know, not unlike like, hey, you know, like your focus here, like, I can see that you're off. So we're not like. Eyes on me. Right?

But, but in a, you know, I see that you're overwhelmed. I see that you're experiencing all of the things right now. Feeling all of the things right now. Like, I'm just going to be present with you and be something else that you can focus on or something that you can ground yourself with so that you can pull yourself down from that. I'm not going to say that doing it any ground test is essential to relationships or doing any categorizing of yourself is essential.

But man, it helps so much and helps. That helps to be able to look at it because I there are things about being the seven that I did not realize about myself until Courtney pointed out to me and said, Hey, have this in common. You haven't noticed that? And I'm like, Well, oh yeah, we sure do. And, you know, as I looked at the list, I was like, These things are all true about me.

And now that I can see them on the list and see how I react in these situations, I can pair them to my wife's list and I'm like, This is why we keep butting heads in this situation or in this situation, or why we can't get past this hurdle because we're both approaching it from our different, you know, our different Enneagram or a different, you know, introvert versus extrovert or whatever. There's so many different ways that you can typify yourself.

But being aware of that also love languages. So if you can be aware of those, not even though you're, you're pretty deep into the Enneagram stuff, if you can just like do a quick quiz and just like read some of the basics of what it means for you and your spouse or also your kids. Also, another good, you have to do it to figure out each other's temperament. You can stop seeing people as your enemy. A lot of the time we start seeing how they're just processing different right?

Because so many times Katie just needed a process and then I need to push. And it's like, not because I didn't care about her, but it was because I have this need to move on like I need to I need to solve the thing. That's what my Enneagram does. Like, we need to get through this thing. Like, we can't just let the thing sit. So she needs to sit with think. I'm like, okay, I don't feel all the emotions at the same time. So the one I'm feeling right now is all tension.

Can I start to impatience while she goes through 50,000 different emotions? I feel like it's fair for me to do that, for me to let her process and come back to whenever she is more ready to talk about it. Right. And learning that lesson still wearing that lesson, try to put that into practice has made me be a better spouse. And I advise anybody who aims to be a better and if you are as well as you should, I encourage you to do that and figure out how to listen in a way that is actually helpful.

One of my favorite podcasters and YouTubers, Christo in the future, talked about how he is, you know, he's a problem solver. So when his wife would tell him something, she would try to solve the problem and it would irritate her. And this has happened before also. But what she finally told him was like, I know you're trying to be helpful, but what you're doing is not helpful to me. And he was like, Oh, I thought I was being helpful. She she's like, if were you, you would have helped you.

But that's not what. I need, right? So I tried to start doing like she did and start acting. Is this helpful to you? Is this is this thing I'm doing actually going to serve the purpose that I'm intending it to? Or would you rather me do this or do I just need to listen? Or because the what I would want in that situation is not to say and it's an active process of learning and practicing because it is a skill. Absolutely. And yeah. I knew you're ready.

Hi. Welcome to Authenticity on Air with Bruce Alexander. You're hired. I think that was a good tangent that we just went off on. But I'm going to get back to my questions here. So you left. How old were you when you became a mother, when you married John and when you became I'm sorry, when you left your church? I was 23 when we got married. 24 when our first child was born. And 26 when we started putting one foot out the door.

Probably more like 30, 28 to 31, it was like, yeah, no, we're we're done. Maybe closer to 30. So but as a 28 or so, three years after you had a child, you're starting to learn how take control of your own life. Not necessarily, but we have people around us asking questions, which is prompting questions in us. Okay. That's a lot of change coming swiftly. Like I said, like we both agree. And being a parent is a large task.

So I didn't learn this till much later on when I started taking very seriously. Being a spouse is a task all the time. You're learning all this stuff inside a church where you're not very comfortable moving out of a church. Where how how did this affect your sense of self? Does you did you feel like you had you had your own identity as you're moving through all these different new processes and new and new challenges for your identity?

Well, I mean, at that point my identity was wife and mother, you know, and, you know, just very, very heavily leaning into that. And and still for a while, like really leaning into that even once we started questioning other things. Yeah. Because it we kind of went like in this like big circle of like we went deeper into some things, but it was still like a delineation from, you know, the majority of people around us.

But then we ultimately ended up curving away from that to so, you know, part of that was like, well, you know, you just have as many kids as you have. And, you know, that's not like you just like Sarah. Sarah, with your family planning. And then a few kids into that, we were like, maybe, maybe I should be a little more intentionality here because this affects a lot of other things.

And so, you know, going from that, like, you know, the only reason I'm on this Earth is to be a wife and a mother to like like in many ways, I feel like this is tricky because in many ways, like, I do still believe that, like raising my children is the most important thing I can do. Like nothing will ever be more important than raising my children. However, I, I no longer subscribe to the inclination that we should take any responsibility. There and make good choices for ourselves.

If if I'm hearing this right initially, wife and mother in internalized label and now it's more of a purpose, Is that correct? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, like you you didn't have a choice. Like, that's just what women were created to be and have children. Like, that's just why women exist and, and like, obviously that's still part of who I am. Like being a mother is never not going to be a part of who

I am. But but it's not all women are, you know, there are a lot more than just the people who make babies. I tend to agree. Yeah. So in that you you've separated. Okay, so starting out, you did feel like that was your that was what you were. That's w work is. What I was even corrected for having ideas outside of that at one point as a young adult. And so so you were corrected, but did you actually take on those those ideals and actually mentally be like mentally digest them and make them.

Oh, yeah. So that you were that you were fully indoctrinated, thought that, that this is all an ear for. Yeah. Well, looking back now, how do you feel like you were able to mentally break away from that kind of thought. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean I think, I think partly the challenge of it, you know, like, I I, I wanted to believe about myself that I could have as many children as I would have, and I would still be a patient. Wonderful mother, you know?

But when there's actually humans there who testing that theory, you learn things about yourself. And something I learned about myself. Is that a limitation was a good choice.

And so I feel like that like watching my own mental health struggle in hindsight of having four children in five years was, you know, like for the sake of these people that are already living, like, I need to make a good mental health choice to choose to limit myself any further with this, because I need to be the best I can be. And I'm already struggling to do that for these people already here.

And so it was more of a necessity then, you know, I think like something that I really like sought out. Do you think some of the stuff we talked about earlier, such as you not sharing your pain and like not not speaking your needs out, is remnants of that, that indoctrination? I mean, I think I think it more has to do with my family culture then. What they kind of want in the same. I mean yes but I you know I grew up hearing things, you know, like feelings were a bad thing.

Like emotions were a bad thing because they affected you, you know, like especially in a decision or which is true, but sometimes is appropriate and necessary. Like if I'm having negative feelings about a decision that's not a decision I should make, you know. But it was more so, you know, like if you got emotional about something like, then you couldn't think clearly. Like, I can be I can feel something and still think.

And some of that is a negative association towards women because they're more emotional. And, you know, women cloud judgment because of their emotions, which is a very inaccurate and narrow thing. But yeah, it you know, you have to you have to be willing to examine those things. And, you know, it's just I, I don't want to represent those things. I want to, you know. I'm. Sorry. You know, I had my kids texting me earlier. I'm going to put this down here now.

That's just my front door notification. Okay. Um, I heard something the other day that I thought was really interesting. Men. So, like, a lot of men talk about women being emotional and the reason why there's a separation, because, you know, long ago, we our job was to keep the family alive and to provide for the family that that was like what was ingrained in this protector provider. And there was no emotion about that.

It was all based on where is the food, where's the day, where is the thing, where it's standing, there's no emotion. And if you if fear was part of that, like not not planning, but like, like what if I'm afraid there's not going to be food in this area? You might feel you might starve because the logic was telling you this is where the food was while the the woman was raising the child.

Emotion was important, nurturing like loving somebody and making sure their needs were taken care of was the highest priority. As this moved into like modern culture, we hung on to these, you know, these separate roles, but we as men internalized them into how people view us as protectors and providers. So that became our emotion, basically, because if somebody looked at me and said, I wasn't providing for my family, then I'm going to react to that.

More than somebody saying, you know, it looks like you don't love your kids. And that that wasn't the thing that's going to hurt me. Right? And I thought that was really interesting because I do make most of my decisions of logic based off of where's the food, where's that, where's the danger, What's going to what's going to give our family the best chance of success? And this is why women are better than men, is that that doesn't always matter.

There is so much more nuanced than where's the food? Where's the danger especially when you're raising a family there for us, there are four little people in there who say, Where's Dad in, right? Where's our loving father figure? Where's our where's the joy in our house? Those things are also very important. So I am not in this posture of traditional family culture where you have to have a mom, you have to have a dad.

But I think it's very important to have two parents, right, who play both sides, somebody who looks at where the food where the danger and somebody who looks at where's the joy, where's the love? And my wife does that for me. She says, hey, you need to check in. Like, I know you're working hard. I know you're trying to figure things out in the future, but these kids need you now. That's that. That's hard. Being a modern man is hard to get. And getting get yanked out of that work.

Work we're both into now. You to love these people, right? And to actively put your heart out for these people to see it is it's a tough thing. Yeah, well, America's built for Enneagram three. They want you to work. Yeah. Absolutely. Because that's how you prove your worth is hard. You work and what you accomplished. And so that's, you know, being married to an Enneagram eight. The conversation we had this past Sunday because is like our family time day.

And so he was struggling with the feeling in himself because he's an eight that we would be because he wasn't accomplishing something. He wasn't doing something for the house or for the family or working on something in the house. And, you know, so I had to say to him, I would be disappointed if you were not present right now. You know, because what I need and what your children need for our family time is for you to be present, because it's not family time. If you're not present.

And so but, you know, I think that's another, you know, just emphasizing your point of like learning about ourselves, understanding ourselves, and then being able to communicate that with our partner, who also knows and understands us to say, Hey, I know that this is your tendency, that this is the inner voice in you that says you are not doing enough, but you need to tell that voice. It's enough to be with my kids.

It's enough to play a game with my kids and show them that I love them, that I'm here, that I'm available, that I'm present, that I care because when they grow up, they're not going to remember, you know, my children are not going to remember that their dad helped build the Dale City Library or the Villa Theresa condos. Like, they're not going to know that.

They're going to remember that on a Sunday afternoon he played basketball with them or know, played Minecraft with them or, you know, whatever it is that they want to do like that. Those are the things they're going to remember and care about. And are going to matter to them. And to your point, it's also wild how quickly you can feel the difference when you check in.

Like I've always been good with my oldest to like not walk in the hallways, but since they've been my oldest two, we've been good because we can talk about things that I like that are kind of childish and that they like that are kind of grown up. You know, we watch anime together and we play video games and stuff is easy. The younger two, it was a challenge because it's like they're not really I mean, my middle one's getting there, but my youngest isn't there.

And so instead of proactively finding other ways to connect with them, I was just kind of frozen and waiting, waiting for they got to that spot where. But this is where I'm good. I'm good. So as you can hear, you'll see I'm a great dad. And they pointed out to me like, What are you waiting for? Like, not in so many words? But she was like, Hey, you are not connecting with her with the younger two. You are just spending all your time with the older two and you're really great with them.

And you know, I appreciate that. But we have four kids and what recently happened was Kate was waking up with our youngest and our here immediately. And it was driving me crazy because in her ear immediately and then all day. Yeah. And what I've started to do is take the first part of my day and spend it with her reading books and hanging out. And it's not hard. It's so simple. It's like you grab a book so you can read with me for a while and then we'll read one together.

And then we just hang out and we cuddle and I feel like a different person, both for like my soul and for showing up for my daughter. Like, it feels so good to know that it wasn't too late. She doesn't hate me. Like, it's okay. They're, you know, they're so forgiving when you try. Yeah, but you do have to try. Yeah. Sometimes it takes your partner to remind you. Right? Right. But even that, like, you have the opportunity because of your schedule right now, you know, like, there.

It would be that much harder if you were still gone all day. You know, most parents who work outside of the home spend more time at work than they do with their children at home in the evening, you know, even including weekends. Like a lot of times those hours are, you know, not the same. And especially if you add in any evening activities or, you know, any extracurriculars, anything else like that, even for ever reduces your availability.

And so the intentionality that has to be there is incredible because it's so easy to say, I'm tired. I you know, I've worked hard. I'm you know, I don't have the energy, whatever. And, you know, to just put it on the back burner, I'm like, well, like there's not an immediate crisis. Like nothing's happening there. Okay. So, you know, I don't have to put forth that intentionality right now. Like, I can wait until it's really necessary or there's something I have to deal with.

That was absolutely my absence. But like, looking back on it, they're okay. You can say it. Okay. Or you can say they're okay. And and that's how I look at it. And I was like, they were okay. They can be great. Their lives could be happier. And I am very much in control of that. And I wasn't taking the opportunity. And that's that's you know, it's hard to look at whenever you look at how many wasted days are. But it also is once again, it's never too late.

Right. But I guess the other point I was trying to make, it's like. A moment of honesty to my authentic audience. At the time of this recording, I was still learning audio and I let track get corrupted on my main audio source. Unfortunately, the rest of this recording is not the best. I encourage you to continue to listen to it because it was a really great conversation, but I also appreciate you having listened so far.

I just want to let you know that this is not the kind of content I will be putting out as we move forward, as I've learned how to solve such issues and won't let it happen again. But for this one, I appreciate you bearing with me through a little bit of a technical difficulty. Thanks. I think you were tired, though. You know. Because, you know. Oh yeah, the schedule reckoning. Right.

And so for a lot of parents who work outside of the home, like, it's even that much harder to finish because they are tired like they've been, you know, emotionally depleted from their days, especially if they have an emotionally taxing job. You know, you're a teacher, you've been around, it's all day and it's hard to come home and have the energy.

Want to spend time with your children or, you know, just other you know, I know that at times your job would be very emotionally taxing, very emotionally demanding, depending on what you're dealing with. And and so, you know, that's a tricky balance of like, how do I have room for myself and give space for myself to, you know, decompress from my day, but also be present and available to my children, you know, even that much further to single parent. You know, my sister in law is a single mom.

And there, you know, like it would be really great if she had a partner very like I hear it's like, let me step in. If she doesn't, you know, it's all on her. And so, you know, how how do we as a community step in and help make space for those people who need need that time to decompress, but again, also approach them with understanding, you know, instead of criticism of, you know, hey, it just means you didn't do this like.

So my first question is if you can possibly at all make cuts and get out of the 9 to 5 work situation, if there's any way you can do it. Because like, honestly, like I of course, I am financially terrified of what my future looks like. I don't care though, I what what I'm doing right now, being here with my family is so much more important. It's easier to say that from this side and it's also easy. It was also easy to do it because I was in a situation where I was forced to make a choice.

I don't think I could have made that sitting at home listening to this right now and say, You know what, I'm going to choose my family and leave my job that pays me $100,000 a year. No, I couldn't have done that. So the security was too good the consistency that like having all those things, it was so good. But I was emotionally just wrecked. I hadn't like I didn't like it there. They didn't like me there. That's one part of it.

Then being away from my family from six in the morning, sometimes 7:00 at night, that is a long time and it's unnatural. And I mean, at this point, like I'm home, I work from home. I don't leave very often. The things I want are like my work and stuff, and whenever I have more clients, it'll still be from home most of the time, and I still don't feel like I see my face like. So it's it's so hard to, you know, to put myself back in that place. And I think that I can do that again.

I really don't think I've heard, but it's because I've seen over here. Yeah. And I don't think I could really translate to somebody who hasn't been on this side as to how like how much different it looks like having the weight of 9 to 5 off your shoulders, being being instructed on what to do, all like all of your work day, your time not belonging to you, like all of those things are just emotionally draining and then trying to come home and be a parent. It's it's a lot.

I mean, there are ways to cope with it. Absolutely. But I would encourage you, if you have a skill or a passion or something that you've been thinking about, striking out to do that lets you control your own time and be home more. Okay. I would I would really do it because even if it doesn't work out, there's always there's always job like it may not be the job that you love. I mean you can always go back to making some money and making ends meet. But if kids are only kids for a while.

Right. And I feel confident saying it because it's like, you know, yeah, you're doing it. Or you, you know, I was we were prepared. Not going to say I was lucky because Kate was Kate as a she's a financially minded person, budgeted. Well, we had money saved and I was in this situation to be able to sustain this transition forever. But for long enough to make something happen or to be able to at least start something different.

Like, you know, if I have to go back to some sort of working with somebody else, I know that I can make a decision to do something very different. I do some sort of hybrid work, something to where I'm home more because it has totally changed my view of what is important. Well. Which I love for you that you know that your hand was forced the decision that ultimately you feel like that's been better for you.

Absolutely. But I feel like that's that's what's so hard is like I think a lot of people would love to live that way. But America's not. Let me so I mean. I feel like it's transitioning that way. You know like yes, you can like even YouTuber is a realist. If not now, you know, which is wild. And and I think that's because there are more people.

Coming up and saying like, I'm not satisfied with this working a 9 to 5 for somebody else my entire life to retire and die, you know, but at the same time like that is still the structure. Like there you know, there is still like 99% of people and not just, you know, be removed from a paying position and figure out a way. To I will say 99% of people will not. Now, I would say probably 50%. Those people cannot because they they couldn't pay next week's bills.

But there are people who could afford this. That's the way our society is set up to make you terrified, be out there on your own. I mean, it is it is very scary not knowing your financial future in America like because we have put such a high priority on material being like the future of things. Owning a home, you know, like having to pass all these different things that cost a lot of money.

But if if you were to look at it realistically, I've got a friend who they sold our house, moved into like a truck on a fifth wheel, moved into that and they she works from there. She's going to be interviewing her next week like she works on the move like they set up in Florida sometimes and stay there for a while. And she makes more than I do by a lot. So but she had to commit to a different kind of lifestyle.

And she had me she was passionate about not saying, just go out there and just quit to do nothing. But if you if there's something like a passion that you've been putting off, I'm encouraging to do that now because there is still lots of opportunity. At one point it's going to be it's not going to be a creator economy anymore. There's not going to be 10 billion podcast, there's going to be 200 million YouTube channels. There's going to be so many Instagram.

You know, there's at some point, there's there's only so much space to fill. But right now there's still a lot of space. So if that's what you want to do, I encourage you to do. Yeah. And I agree with you. And I hope I hope that that does become you, that the that the independent economy grows.

However, I guess I just want to make sure that it is recognized that there is a large swath of people who will not have an opportunity and who will fight every day of their lives to, you know, maybe not even make anything you know, because because America is not built for them. And so like I yeah, I'd love to see it changed and I and I think there are avenues that are changing that There also are you know, that avenue is going to change for some people.

But I think there will always be some people that it's not. Who speak directly to. Who are you talking about? Who are these people? I want to know like, let's not speak in this way. So that isn't like just lay it out for me. Spell it out. Who are you talking about? Well, I think I don't feel like you've in, like, say it's going to be a certain demographic because there's always going to be people with this kind of demographic.

We're going to break out of that, you know, But, you know, certainly people in poverty areas and struggling economies and, you know, growing up with a certain mindset, you know, where expectations. Or. Even culture is like it's just it's going to be harder to, you know, because, you know, like I'm talking about my own experience and being raised and with certain expectations.

But I mean, but you know, there's there's other cultures that have a greater level of that of where, like you like I said, I felt like I don't know how to do it, didn't have a choice. But there are some that actually don't have to worry or where at least, you know, there's more risk for them. And there's there's always a choice. Now, it may not be a good one, but there's always a choice.

Sometimes the choice between being stoned or being, you know, domineering by a patriarchal society like that's that's a choice. I don't I wouldn't want to have to make that choice. But there's there's always a choice whenever you say that there are people who won't have the opportunity, it's hard for me to to accept that because I wasn't in a situation where this was great always.

But I took steps to make my life better, like I became a firefighter, which before that we were living paycheck, a paycheck and the job that we're doing great things for both my mental state and our financial state, where I could start doing things to make me a better person, like, you know, educating myself, mental health and wellness, having insurance in here in my body like lots of different things. But I had to go out and earn that job. Like, nobody gave that to me, right?

And then once I got the job, I then had to go through six months of very intensive training and, you know, academy EMT, lots of different certifications that some people quit. So is is the road for everybody to get there the same? Absolutely not. Equity is there. Inequity is a real thing in this country and some people start out way lower than I even did. And is it fair? No. Is it impossible to escape? No. You have to.

Once again, I think it's about self awareness, being aware of the limitations that are set in front of you and being willing to not be a victim to them and to do whatever you have to do to overcome. Does that mean for some people working a full time job and going to school at does that mean working part time and starting your the thing that you're actually passionate about as a side hustle? It looks different for everybody, but there is a way that you can you can live passionately.

I, I don't want to say that there are people who can't. I think there are people who won't because like I said, it's very scary and it is not all roses and candy over here. There's there's some real things that you have to face. But whenever you're doing something that you love, all of that is okay. Versus there was actually a lot of fear in going to work in the morning every day for me, like who is going to make me feel small today? That was a that was a terrible feeling.

I hated going into work. So is there differences? Yes, But there's there's always fear. There's always sacrifice. There's always a way to make the situation better. It's just are you willing to do what it takes to to accomplish that? And that's okay if you're not. But just don't say that it doesn't exist. And that's my feeling. You, too, can be a podcast. Do Absolutely. Because your voice is amazing. Don't look at me like that. What do you think? What do I think that.

What are you thinking right now? I probably processing. And processing if I'm deciding whether or not to say I disagree. You're more welcome to disagree. Know I know, but I'm actually deciding because, I mean, on the one hand, I absolutely agree with you. On the other hand, you know, okay, you know, what about our differently abled community? What about our persons experiencing homelessness? What about you? Are illegal immigrants. What about even legal immigrants?

You know, what about, you know, again, like I know that there's exception in those demographics, but I also know, you know, that the mountain is that much taller. I guess what will say is there is no ice at YouTube. Nobody's coming to check your papers if you're trying to be a creator. So it's actually probably safe, safer route as opposed to trying to get a job where somebody can come arrest you and deport you. As a legal immigrant.

One of my creator friends is like he goes by the handle inside. He's autistic, developmentally autistic and he's got a like 2 million TikTok following and is very successful. So it's going to be that way for everybody. No. And, you know, I did preface by saying that I even gave 50% of people who are who can't do it because of the ability to make the paycheck. But it's really hard for me to accept that there isn't some way that you can make it happen if that's what you want to do.

I don't think that if you are if your situation is so entrenched in your disability that you can't do it, it's probably not something that you were trying or about doing with. You were probably thinking about the pain that you're dealing with or the, you know, the like dealing with the different frequencies you have to deal with on a daily basis just to get the things that you need. That's probably not on your mind.

You probably don't have the mental space, but if it's something that you want to do and then there's a passion that's here to think, well, like, I don't I don't think I can. I disagree, though. It's not everybody. It's people who are saying, I don't think I can go after my my dream because of this here. You know, it's definitely qualifying. It's not everybody in the entire world can go do their thing, but it's the people who are dreaming and making excuses for it. Right. And you you were on the.

Side of wanting to inspire those. Absolutely. And tell. Them that they can do. It. You absolutely can do it. And also, I once again freely admit that I was forced to make the decision to leave my job like I did not make the decision easily. And I'm not saying it would be easy for anybody to make that decision. It is not. I have been thinking about doing my own thing for a while since I got on the fire department, honestly, but doing something else

but my own thing for the last couple of years before I left. And but being on other side, I definitely want to let people know that there is a way, if you're willing to work hard and that is not putting yourself up by your bootstraps, because I know people there are people who don't have bootstraps, but there are avenues just to find or make bootstrap. Hey, it's just knowing your situation and then knowing the mountain

you have to overcome and saying, I want, I want it anyway. If so, my answer is I don't agree with it. But I just. I listen back. America. Well, no. No, no, no. I think it's that you're coming. You know, you're coming from your perspective, your and wanting to say, hey, you can do this. Like I you know, I did this and I didn't even have the choice. And I think that's important. Yeah, I think that's important for people to hear. I think those inspirations are important.

And I think I'm coming from this kind of like, you know, like, yeah, you want to speak this community and say you can do it, have faith in yourself, believe in yourself. You can try and figure it out. You know, like you can't. You can and, and people need to hear you here.

Yeah. And I just wanted to speak to those people who are genuinely camp, either by life circumstance or by mental illness or by, you know, whatever is they, you know, I see you there's you know, I see that that that mountain doesn't end for you. I just want to say that very important. I want to say to those that second group of people that you can't get, like maybe you could like keep working on the thing that is stopping you. You know, if it is mental health, keep working on your mental health.

Try to build a foundation to where you can be healthy, like mentally healthier, and you can start looking at the future like financially. Once again, the fire department allowed me to be able to see time different. If before that it was literally what are we going to eat next week. And it is. That's like that's why it's hard for me to just say to the people who can mentally handle it, you can't.

It's for the people who are like me who could not mentally see what a future look like, where I actually enjoyed my life. I want to speak to those people as well and say, you can. It's not easy. They're like, there are sacrifices that have to be made. Sometimes you have to give up everything that you ever knew and go sacrifice yourself to a career for almost ten years.

That's what I did. And I would I would I want to say I don't want to suggest that path, but honestly, for some people, if your life situation is as bad as ours was and you have kids who depend on you, yeah, I would say do it. You know, I would say join the military, do like there are avenues that will take anybody who is fit enough, are willing to work hard enough and. We'll give you a way to be able to get out of that situation.

So then that is just a stepping stone where then you can see above all of it the crippling pressures that are currently on you. And once you can get a peek at what that future looks like, it becomes so much easier to start working towards because otherwise you're just like fumbling in the dark and you don't know which way is up. Yeah, but there are people who are unwilling in the dark enough and with where. I am there is a it exists and and I love you people. And I am one of you from way back.

And I hope that you're able to find a hope. I hope that you're able to see the life at the end of the tunnel at some point because honestly and it's such a deep, dark place, I never want to be back in. And that's that's the other scary part about going out on OWN is that there's nothing to protect me from ending back in that deep, dark tunnel. I have got you know, I don't have insurance for that. I don't have like, you know, I do have retirement stuff there, but that's the windfall.

Or if this goes south, that's that's scary. That's no longer for, you know, or whenever I get to be 60 years old, am I ready to, you know, take a cruise to Barbados? That's for if I don't become profitable in six months, that's scary. Yes. I don't think about that. My wife is the one who has the finances, so she gets the stress of that. I just I get to go out and be the best me I can be with. All right. We're going to we're going to start wrapping.

This up because I feel like I can talk to you all day. And there are other people once again, those kids I was about like to see my face occasionally that ghost has decided he wants to reenter the chat. Just leave it cracked. So if he decides to leave again, Thank you. So. Anyways, we got I love like I write all these questions, like I usually write about 20 questions for you and I usually ask maybe six of them. Like I want to prepared.

I want to have a place to go in case the conversation doesn't actually just happen. But most of the time it just does. And I love that this this format. What is the next few days, months, years look like for Lewis? Well, you know, we've just started our journey with competitive gymnastics, and that's a big commitment that, you know, you don't know where it's ending. You know, they may do it for a year and be like, Man, I want to do recreational again like that a member.

Or they may be like, I really like this place. I want to grow and I want to go through an even more advanced competitive gym. And so there's there's that like factor looming in the background of like know that that dictates a certain portion of our lives because we want to make that happen. And then, you know, we're we're looking to move hopefully year. So it's like the downside because the country's been fun but it's a lot of work.

It's a lot of people, you know, certain times bigger like it doesn't really feel like there's room for anything else because there's so much stuff that has to be done, which, you know, is great and we've enjoyed it. But we'd like to make room for different adventures because the thing we would like to do is make more for traveling. And and so I'm not sure where we're going to end up or how that's going to go, but that's that's the goal. So, yeah.

I ask that because we were talking about the dream chasing your thing. You've got a lot of talent besides being the person who knows something about randomly everything. You are also an artist and like I said, you could do so many different things with your voice. You could do voice, audiobooks or whatever. Is there anything that you dream for? You? I mean, yes, but it changes every day trying to commit. You know, I think one day it's one thing and the next day it's another thing.

And I I've never been able to do one thing that's like, yes, that's the thing that I want to run into for rest of my life because I also have ADHD. And so I will hyper focus on something for a couple of weeks and it'll be great. And I think, man, I could do this forever. And then in two months I'm like, I don't know, hold on. All these plans in the house. Like. I don't know why there's 80. Plants in my living room that was a different person it was here. And she does not live here anymore.

So, you know. I was literally looking at my pile of stuff this morning, like I've got a big art bag from all of my art stuff in college and my photography stuff. And these are all things I still like to do. Like luckily with the podcasting, like doing my, you know, my podcast cover artwork and social media stuff, it gives me an opportunity to talk with a creative outlet to a degree, but I don't draw anymore. That makes me like I was super depressed when I was just looking at my drawing stuff.

I was like, What are you going to do that really sad guess. But I also had to give myself a grace because I'm I'm actually I'm working towards building something here for the first time ever in my life. Like I'm doing the thing like I've put it out for accountability. Like it's, you know, it's on all platforms. Every week I'm supposed to show up and I enjoy doing it, but there is no wiggle room in that.

There's no if I if I want to actually do this, I can't say, well, I'm just going to take it right. I can't just not record episodes anymore. Then then you don't have a podcast. Like if you stop making episodes, you're not a podcast. Yeah. So and this one, I'm like, okay, you're doing something, you've chosen the think and you're doing it, and that feels good. Looking at the other stuff, I'm not doing that. Yeah, but then I remember you're doing something that you're really doing it.

If whenever I drawing I was drawing from picture, so I was, you know, doing graphic design and something like I was doing all these different things and really doing it and I will be coaching, but there's like, I feel like it's a very similar conversations that we have on the show and the conversations that we will have in coaching sessions will be very similar because it's so much just about getting to know yourself and your story. And that's what we do on the show.

Yeah. Can I have a couple more questions that I was going to wrap it up. I don't want. What is it about animals that cripples you or no, Listen. I have a bearded dragon right now that we found last week in Rose. I have reports that are and that there's at least two other ones that I've been trying to feed for like a year. My gosh. It you know, I. There's this something in me that I, I can't, I can't look at suffering and look away no matter who it is.

So I, you know, I saw turtles come out of the rose and I, during spring even went through a phase where I had to stop if I did them and check it out. Or maybe because I couldn't handle the thought because we have that happen in our backyard and. I never even thought of that. So I don't think of the litter, but we in a way full of possum babies do. Well, they're in south of Norman, and I don't know if it's actually in Norman or just south of them. I think it's.

But anyway, you know, and so then I was like, Oh my God, what if what if all of these other dead mother possums also have babies in our houses that are now just going to starve and die? And then, you know, I have to take a step back and say, hey, you know, like, I can't I can't I can't serve every meal. But but there is still a fish in me that wants to. Use those feelings. And for the yeah, that's one want to make sure it works on so many levels because there are four.

But it also stands for dimensional feeling. That one of the kids on our porch, I'm pretty sure I've never seen it until like ten days ago and it's very friendly. So I don't think it ended up out there by accident. But it's, you know, it's so skinny. You can see it's like slinky, you know, sticking out from it and and get it, you know, and it's like it's not that that's all that, you know, it got lost in the woods.

So, like, I mean, I could just ignore the starving cat or I can put the food out for, you know, just that it's not that hard to put food on the porch at night, contacted some rescues to see if they can get it adopted because it's very sweet and it's a young female. So unless it's space and it's just going to the cycle, there's a kitten that hangs around it and I'm not sure if it's it's or not, or if they just are abandoned bodies. How hard is it to let go whenever you love every animal, but you.

Are not always that hard. You know, I have my favorites. Like when we have our litter of foster puppies. Like there was only one that was hard to let go of. The other ones. I was like, You can leave like you to the hole in my wall. It's okay. You get adopted or, you know, different people were attached, different ones. There was a little little Chihuahua mix that we fostered who was incredibly sweet. She was so sweet. And but I did not go to the bathroom without her scratching on the door.

And I was like, I've already made it for these days. Like children not being able to go to the bathroom without somebody knocking on the door and like, I cannot live with the dog that's going to that. So like, she was like my kids cried when she got adopted, but like, I just couldn't live with that. And I think. It's like I always. Have that background, like myself, like I know this kid is like one screaming. FOSTER In which, like, we're taking a break right now

with this because of some other things going on in life. But there's one that I regret letting get adopted. I'm like, still to this day, like we talk about our preschool and I wish that it happened like this one. But you know, it was special for okay, on that special part. This is how you were subpoenaed to testify against your own brother on a matter that is not up for discussion specifically.

But can you tell me what it was like to be held against your the person that you spent most of your young life with? Yeah. So I think the hardest part is that I'm not sure if he understands that when I was you know, that means I didn't have a choice because like, I would have rather not, you know, But, you know, I subpoenaed I, you know, I can either face the consequences of a crime that or I can do what I'm supposed to do while at the same time wanting what was right to be done.

And and I feel like the trickiest part of that is like because I have so many levels of feelings about that, you know, there's part of me that is happy about the way it happened, and there's part of me that will always be with and regret. It. And and also, you know, the way that, you know, the questions I got asked, you know, only allowed for certain answers.

And so in some ways, it's so hard to be completely or at least give a full picture sometimes because, you know, you're answering the question and, you know, and especially for Gabe, was that he wanted to act as his own lawyer. So when he so when I got cross-examined, it was by him.

And so like having to answer to him about questions that like, I mean, for one, like I don't want to talk about in front of a roomful of people were suffering through and again, like it's not, you know, two things can ruin a relationship like having to justify against someone in court. So of you know like recognizing like there's no coming back or not, you know, like this is this is a nail I'm hammering in that one.

Her background and and having, you know, part of me wants to be there because because there's certain things that I believe are right about it. But also, you know, it's just a limited system. And so so experiencing it that way, it just felt very tangible how limiting. What was the emotion like on the like during the cross-examination of like was he exposed to you? Were you able to keep your composure Like. No, I mean. I appreciate your time.

I really I mean, the amount of anxiety I had leading up to it was is my hardest part which that's another thing I guess to deal with is from those accumulated fears, the stress I now have to sit on there, which means like my body was in such a high level of stress for so long that it's no longer like recognize reasonable stress and just perceive everything as stress. So I wake up, my heart rate is over 100 just from waking up because I lived in such a high stress state for so long.

And so that's been a whole, you know, an experience like like I can feel it happening. Sometimes I feel myself getting enough mode, okay. Like I don't have to run around like a crazy person, you know? Does it feel like a panic attack? I mean, it it I mean, that's been another, you know, also by product. Because I'm pretty sure you had both. So yeah, I've not never heard of this on me before. So I'm in for one, you know, brand new information that you suffer from in silence.

But I'm I'm trying to understand what that experience was like. I mean, yeah. So it I think once I knew what it was, it was a lot easier when I didn't know, like, the anxiety was worse for sure, because I didn't know why. I was feeling like I was getting lightheaded. I was feeling like my heart was racing because of, you know, and, and in the first medical person I tried to see, this old Mary was myself.

So, you know which anyone who knows knows That's not usually a word that you would use anonymously. So it was really hard to find somebody else to want to understand with me. And I'm very grateful. Did you know and I found several other things that have contributed, you know, like the taste of art and other things. But moving away from the trial for a minute, just talking about you just then finding a doctor that respects your word and does the research, what does that do for your peace of mind?

Um, I mean, even even just my very first appointment, you know, I'd bring, you know, a stack of papers and she's like, looking for like, Oh, yes, I'm like, oh, what's that? You know, and where. You know, I've been seeking this answer for a long already and being told I'm high strung, it's in your head. It's just anxiety. Orgasmic. Yeah. Which only in phrase, you know my symptoms.

And so having somebody finally validate, you know, and say, look this is this is out of your control you know, and it's because of the level of stress you've been in was very relieving, very validating. And you know, this felt really good, seriously. And, you know, somebody fair even, you know, instead of just like, how quickly can I move with answer your question and then looking through. Being a black man in American society is not always I mean, I can't respond, Sure.

But whenever it comes to medicine, it is a big factor in how I've been treated in the past. There is, you know, lots of studies saying that many doctors work on the assumption that blacks can handle more pain, that I should be better than I am because of my natural genetics. There are lots of different things. So when I walk into prescribing for pain, I've always had any issues, back issues, all that stuff.

I've always had the struggle with so many doctor recently, very recently I had to go see a referral round your doctor about getting my Adderall. I've been the diagnosed ADHD for 15 years. He question how I did in school, like a big grade in school. What does that do for you? Didn't struggle in school like, you know, maybe he started the question, if I was ADHD, I was like, well, I had a disease because I'm smart. Have you ever taken an IQ test? No, I haven't taken an IQ test.

I'm smart and I didn't study and I made straight it my path. Well, I struggled in college whenever I needed to study. Okay, well, have you taken this whatever test, this call for air traffic controller that used to, you know, diagnose your ability to pay attention. Now, what is that like? I was diagnosed 15 years ago. They gave me a test and I told them I lost an arm. I'm blindness, you know, my inability to organize anything. I chronological like all this stuff.

And he's just like, well, you know, I think that you might need to be diagnosed. So this is another case in which I left the doctor feeling like first I was crazy stressed to know if like am I going to be able to get my medication, which keeps me sane because being disorganized is literally insanity for me and then later on being irritated and realizing that I just another one of those situation that she never, you know, of me, I never make that assumption in the moment.

I was irritated with this guy, with his a tool I don't like very much, but I include myself, as I always do. I answered all the questions. I question him. I was like, isn't you're overall purpose patient? Well, you know, patient wellness. And he's like, well, you know, this we got this guideline book here and my job is to follow these guidelines and that pissed me off as general practitioners.

Well, he was like, This was a specialist for my general practitioner who was not an ADHD specialist like my last two out of my last three psychiatrist or therapist, whatever. One patient, two of them were ADHD specialists and they had no problem with my diagnosis. But this guy decided that we probably need to do some re diagnosing oriented, see the record from your, you know, your past. You do have the record whenever you were first diagnosed 15 years ago.

No, I was 20 something years old and I barely got to a doctor to get diagnosed because I was a mess. Unsurprisingly, I didn't hang on to that before. That was a bad experience. So hearing you talk about this person who not only listened to you, was able to give you a diagnosis and peace quickly and care to do so, I have the power of people in medical positions caring, right? Yes. So sometimes I really feel like they have no idea how much power they would.

You would you agree with that based on your previous experience with this? Yeah. I mean, you know, I feel like I've experienced both sides a lot of times. You know, And so it's that it is really hard because you never know until you're there, which is getting, you know, like the orthopedic surgeon I saw with my knee, this was really, really, really great. I really liked him. And, you know, so much. And, you know, it was you know.

I hate that there are so many people involved and not not that involved. I hate there's so many people who can control how your situation goes whenever you interact with the doctor. Like if you have a great experience, the doctor can be absolutely terrible and not all on your medication when they're supposed to. And then there's like no reports of my last doctor.

I left because I wrote an email and asked, Hey, I haven't been getting my prescriptions for like weeks at a time when I write them in, is it I changed like I'm on senior care now. Do you guys have a problem covering me? They drop because I question. They're like, I will not be accused of ignoring that sooner. Care patient says you. That is to me is the opposite of how you should handle that situation. But that's the reality of life.

And once again, some of the person who has power over my sanity, right. Decided I was not important enough to get my medication on time and then be to keep seeing as a patient. I got angry one time when I had been unmedicated for, you know, almost two months and you know, me, one of my ADHD strongest is dysregulation of emotions. So yeah, I was super pissed, but that like, I feel like I'm being overweight now. All right. You know, I think it's just that a lot of people are selfishness.

Just depends on what those people have and how it affects people around them. Not that one get a different job. Like like if you work in the medical field, you should, like, have to care about you. Right? I mean, you know, aptitude test, right? You should be emotional, but I'm putting that for it. But we're going to hear about. All right. Now, I'm actually going to tie it up. Is there anything else that I didn't ask you about you want to talk about or share about something on a permanent.

I mean, I think, you know, if I was going to be asked, what would I want to say? I think is this basically what I really said when I said, you, you know, like I, I want I want humans to know that there's space for them, that they're saying that they're heard, that I feel like that's why it's so important to emphasize the struggle of those people who have a higher amount of time earlier because and I think that's from being a silent sufferer.

It's like I, I know what that feels like to silently suffer. And so I more than anyone else, I want those people to know I see you. I see your silent suffering. I see that there is no light at the end of the tunnel for you. I see that now you're questioning, you know, maybe some big questions even. You know, I want I want those people do not feel alone.

I want people to know that they're okay to be here, that there is room for knowing that whatever you're dealing with, whatever you're struggling with, is room for you. And there is someone who cares, even if it's really hard to find, you know, that that people have intrinsic value just because they're human, You know, that it's not it's not their it's not what they can do. It's not what they look like. It's not how they talk, how they act like that. You know, you have value because you exist.

And I want you know, that's the way I'm trying to raise my children. They know if I ask them, how do we teach people to be fine, they would answer, I think. And not like that is what I want. I want my children to bring kindness, you know, because we talk about, you know, like there's enough for suffering and crap and stuff and, you know, misery.

And the best thing we can do is be fine when maybe nobody else is going to be fine or, you know, it may be the only nice thing they experience in that day and that week in the year is maybe that we didn't get mad at them or something or that we didn't respond that, you know, that man or, you know, smiled at them or whatever. You never know how your interaction is going to affect someone, you know, either way. And so I, I wish that it was more present in our minds, like myself included.

You know, I get distracted and busy in my own, you know, stuff. I have to do my own stress. But, you know, there's I just want people to know they're seen wherever they're at. The same. I think any conversation about this shouldn't be done like face. You're saying that like, yes, you're doing great with your kids and you're doing that, but you have something to show the world. And I think it just serious. Think about if if people want to find more Larissa, where can they find you?

And also do you want them to find, you know. Was it it's just hard to find. I I'm not super present on social media. They used to be more but it's just something I've kind of taken a step back on to be more present and be humans around me. So I am on social media. Not well. Do you want to share your tag? I'll have you. For an interim agreement. Of look for her under my umbrella and often I air or a possible partner. You might be able to see her there.

Lastly, if you enjoyed today's episode, give it a follow in a life and share with so many things Might enjoy to always check out earlier episodes. Support the future creation of great content. Don't forget to like us on identity management on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. You can also head over to the authentic Bruce YouTube channel for podcast video, bonus content and impactful clips from our conversations with his great guest.

Larisa, thank you for being yourself and so much of you with the authentic on air audience. I also enjoyed getting to know you on a deeper level. I am truly honored to have had this conversation. You I am absolutely, totally confident that there will be value put out of this world, right? This episode comes out and it's going to it's going to help, even if it's just one person. I know that somebody will hear your words and feel lifted up. Thank you for sharing that with wrapping up.

If you are struggling to show up as yourself and your content, your work, your family or your life, I would love to help you. Authentic identity management as identity, to help you align yourself with the identity you share with the world, the past, and let someone else play of authentically and accept the potential that belongs only to you. You can contact on social or email. Bruce authentic to be managed accounts for a free 30 minute consultation. Thank you again to Larisa for being here.

That is it for today. Is episode. Until next time. Be yourself. Love yourself by everybody.