BFs For Life👯| Maintaining Your Identity Through Lifelong Friendship with/ Maralen and Latresha

Hello again and welcome to a very special episode of Authentic on Air with Bruce Alexander. Today marks the first occasion that I have multiple guest in the on Air Studio at the same time, I'm both excited and terrified. Maybe this will be the test that proves to me that I know what I'm doing or not a joke around, but I feel so blessed to have the host team of the Marvelous Masonic Models podcast in the studio with the three of us in the same place.

There will be a lot of A's, D's and H is being unleashed on the airwaves. We will see what happens after today's reflection. It seems easier to avoid pain and betrayal if you never let anyone in. But doesn't that cycle actually invite more struggle into your life? Carrying all the burdens of life can be a lot. What if you shared the load with someone, even for just a moment, life gets lighter. I challenge you to talk to someone about the heavy pain or stress inside.

You may have become numb to it or gotten really good at pretending it doesn't exist. You can go to a medical professional for a more comprehensive solution, but what I'm talking about is just a moment of complete authenticity with anyone. Don't seek or even receive advice or solutions. Just sit in the moment of utter truth and feel that layer of anxiety fed by hiding melts away, even if it is just for that moment. Appreciate what it feels like to exist as your real self in the physical world.

Try it and tell me your experience in the episode 19 Reflection Post on Instagram Threads. Facebook or something else that's wrong. I will edit this part, but you really need to do that. Yeah. But there's something else that's supposed to be part of that. Let's just go. no, no. Well, I'm on Spotify, but not. Let's try that again. Try to get in.

Tell me your experience on the episode 19 Reflection Post on Instagram threads Are Facebook Authentic identity management or make a post of the hashtag Authentic Reflections. I would love to hear from you. I practice this all the time with you as my audience. You have experienced me dumping my emotional waste and off. It is so important to me as host of this show that I keep it real.

So whenever I start to feel like an emotion I want to hide from is filling me up, I just smashed that eject button that is often on air, and I'm totally okay with that because that is exactly what the space was created for. Remember, if you like this podcast or love the space we are creating on this show and please leave review and follow this podcast so you don't miss any of the great episodes I have coming weekly.

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So getting back to the amazing opportunity in front of me today, my guest met at the age of five and have spent the rest of their days in a relationship of platonic bliss. I have no friends in my life from childhood or primary school. Secondary school first went to college, early jobs, or even when I left Tulsa about ten years ago. I wonder what my life would have looked like if, like Marilyn and Patricia, I found someone early in life that shared similar social struggles and successes.

But I have a lifelong friend. If I had met an ADHD counterpart even more interesting, would I have felt the need to play the fit in game if I had known that someone like me just as I was? I will never know. But I do know that I love to see what the host of the newly launched podcast The Marvelous Masonic Muggles, have found in each other, both ADHD and autistic. I get the feeling that they have seen the darkest, ugliest parts and continue to love each other anyway.

They both parent neurodivergent children and have survived domestic violence and sexual assault, making the smiles and laughter constant, their presence even more praiseworthy. They both bring a myriad of skills, talents and certifications to the table. But as I sit across from me today, I see two authentic humans and that I am so excited to get to know. Welcome to the show, Marilyn and Latricia. Hey, we're so excited. We're absolutely ecstatic. Thank you so much.

Before we get too deep in anything, can you tell us in your own words? But as a pair, who you are, how you spend the majority of your time together, and why you think I invited you both on the show? my gosh. Who we are as a pair. we will. Do you feel smarter? Yeah, we are just. These are awkward. Man. Authentic. Like, genuinely. Yes, we're weird. We dance and sing, and there's. No filters, you know, like, leaves is.

Yeah, try to show up like, as authentic as we can and just be willing and committed to growing and healing with each other and holding space for each other. And, you know, that's what's created this long life connection, you know? But it always wasn't like that too. You know, like we've had our moments of, like, separation, you know, where we've had to, like, you know, be alone and be on different paths in certain seasons in our life.

But, you know, I think when you find your person, like she's my person, you know, I mean, and I think it's so beautiful to normalize like platonic relationships because now in society, it seems so like offputting almost, you know, to like kind of like what you and Taylor were talking about, like not having like it not being okay to ask for help and, you know, things like that, like so I'm really grateful to, like, have found someone

that I can experience that with and grow with and share my life with. And, you know, it's great. We do get mistaken for lesbians all time, all the time. I mean, it seems like you have such a deep connection and know talking about your you finding your person. Yeah. Usually you think of your person as being someone that you're going to to spend together as a spouse. So what is that like? How has it been for your relationships that develop outside of this friendship?

Has it been hard for them to find space? So I don't think that either one of us have really been in a relationship where we were truly able to be just like friends, how we like to be friends. Does does that make sense? Like, you know, they, they're we to our faces. It's, you know, I love that you, you know, have a friend and more and more.

But then as soon as you know, the other's gone and it's just, you know, your you and your partner, it's you know, why can't we have a relationship like that or, you know, always trying to use us against each other? Yeah. Triangulation. Yeah. Like for me, like, you know, I just escaped a 12 year domestic violence relationship last year.

And so, like, for the majority of that relationship, like, it was just such a. I don't know what the word is, but it wasn't in like at all, like I was very isolated from her because there was a lot of coercive control happening. And so because I don't have family like other than my parents, and that was like, is me already kind of tainted? It was easier for him to manipulate me to, like, not be with her either.

And so there was a lot of like pitting us against each other, like making these, like just weird insinuation that, like, we're more than just friends or he would make gross comments about, like, we should have a threesome with her. And I'm like, just so off the wall stuff. And so it just wasn't something that was ever fully supported in any relationship.

That I was getting. Yeah. and so now it's kind of like we're able to have that type of freedom because it's we've always talked about that as kids, you know. Like. When I grow old and live together someday, you know? And I just think that's, you know, that's exactly what our ancestors were doing. Yeah. You know. And having that community.

And so, like, the way that America now, like, shames people for being vulnerable and asking for help and it's like anytime someone does that, it's like, why are you asking for a handout? And kind of like, again, what you guys were talking about, pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of thing. And it's like not everything in life has to be hard work. Like, why can't I work joyfully? I totally agree. Why can't I work with ease, you know?

And why can't I have a community that supports me in that where we uplift and encourage each other? And you don't have to do it all by yourself. And especially like as a single mom. And we're raising like, neurodivergent children, like, why can't we do that? Like, why is that? Like, you know, I'm saying because even with intimacy, people always think of physical intimacy, like, or sexual intimacy. But like, there's so many other ways that you can be intimate.

Sharing a playlist with someone is a form of intimacy. Like, I was thinking of you in this song reminded me of you, or, you know, just all different types of love conversations. Yeah, Siblings of men being able to be vulnerable with somebody and just have a real raw converse Asian without being afraid of judgment like that in itself is just a true deep form of intimacy.

Yeah. And it's like we have that we have created a safe space for each other to be exactly who we are without feeling like, you know, we have to walk on eggshells or be afraid or, you know, like we have made it okay to have hard conversations because it's not that we if we don't agree 100% of the time, but when whenever we don't agree, we literally have a conversation. There's no arguing, there's no yelling, there's no, you know, any of that petty stuff.

It's like, hey, what you said really kind of bothered me or what you did just kind of, you know, made me feel some type of way. And then talking through that, you know, you don't get that very often. But I will say it's taken time to get even to those things because we didn't realize for many years that, you know, some of our relationship was like really codependent, like attachment issues, you know?

And so my for me, I became more of like a disorganized, anxious attachments because I also experienced abuse as a child. And so, like, I kind of took on the fond response where I learned people please and walk on eggshells in street myself or other people's comfort. And then not knowing that I had autism and ADHD, I also, you know, masked, you know, that imposter syndrome. You know, I spent the majority of my life being, you know, in that.

And so it take me a long time to really say things that I had wanted to say to her that I was afraid of rejection. Yeah. And like, and I it's weird to say that because, like, when you think about it, it's like, I should never have felt that way. But that's just how I was with anybody, not just her, but because I held her at such a higher place than anyone else. I had. Like, I was so scared to lose her, you know, anything.

But I just like being like if, say, she did something that bothered me or said something like, I, I'm like, I don't like conflict, so we're just going to not say anything real quick. Let me jump in. And like an aside to my audience, these women have both had very interesting, authentic experiences with life, and they're both going to be guest individually later on in the show.

So if you're wondering why I'm not delving into some of that stuff now, it's because right now I want to focus on their relationship and how they've had such a deep and authentic. They've gone to such a deep and authentic place now and what that look like because like you guys said, it is not I wouldn't say it's the norm to have deep, intimate friendships.

You know, it's it is in America, it's generally accepted as a societal thing to be intimate with your, you know, your spouse, your partner that way. But somebody who's a friend, it takes so many different things to happen, to really become intimate with it, you know, within your friendships.

So thinking about that, you guys talked about like shrinking in your other relationships and what responsibility does you feel to each other to, to call the other person out and let them know like, Hey, you're getting away from who you are? Like, Did you did you ever take that personally? that's a deep one. So yeah, but we actually found this in so her last relationship. in the beginning, I thought that what it meant to be a supportive friend was whatever decision she made, I'm like, I'm here.

Yeah. You know, And not saying, you know, I don't think that this is right. I don't think, you know, like and it's just, well, it's your decision and I'm going to support you no matter what. I thought that that's what it meant to be a friend. And then her and I went through a period where we didn't talk to each other for like four months. It was like the three months. Yeah. Yeah. But that. Was a. Very hard like, I mean, like snot crying, like grieving. Thought. You know, like literally.

And then whenever we came back together and finally, like, talk, because I think I sent her like a joke or something. Was we were so. Awkward. And like, she was like, I knew this is what was going to happen right now. I'm like, Yeah, where are you? Joe Sure did. Yeah. And we ended up sitting in the car at the park intact, like for hours. But she looked at me and she said, Don't let me, don't let me go back. Don't let me fall for it again. Don't let me. Know. I was like, You got it, dude.

And it just. When was this? Not last year, but the year before 2021. So yeah, up until that. What caused the rift? What was the thing that happened that. I chose to stay again? Okay, So he was like. Yeah, well. I was going to leave. He had deployed and he was supposed to be gone for like four months. And it was kind of like any time he would leave the veil gifts lifted because I'm able to think for myself, I'm able to. Feel the energy shift well too, because.

Like with having autism or ADHD, like there's that delayed processing. So I had to play catch up, you know what I'm saying? And so I was like, okay, I'm going to leave. Like that was like the third time that I was trying to leave and he ended up like manipulating the military so that he was going to try to kill himself. And they sent him home early. And then it just the love bombing was so heavy, it started all over again. And, you know, he was mirroring my behavior.

And, you know, I can't believe that I can love again. And I'm managing like everything that I was doing and implementing in my life. And, you know, when you're wanting to see that in someone else, which is really like you projecting your traits onto that person and being in a state of denial and not seeing them for who they are, it's a really hard place to be in. And he's the father of my children. And so I was like, Ah, I'm staying.

But like before that we had talks about moving in together and like, we're going to do this like we're going to because we've lived together before. The first time that I tried to leave and you know, addiction is so real, like in when you're in those narcissistic relationships, like it becomes your body becomes addicted, you know, and that stems from childhood. Like that was what was modeled for me as a child. And so that chaos and dysfunction became my norm, you know?

So when I had peace, it was like, where is the chaos? And so I ended up staying. And so to we had all these plans during those two months. And then when I chose to stay, it was just like. Who I remember too. But also like in that time it was really pivotal for me because I had to learn in the ways that we were really codependent.

Yeah, and I had to learn that I was the person that would drop everything and what I was doing when someone needed me and I was doing that with her all of the time as well. And I was like making that exception. And that was kind of a wakeup call for me as well of like, I can't do that. Like, I can't be everything for everybody, including you.

And so that was hard conversations to have to have to because I had to be honest about how I felt and not like filter anything because I was scared of her response, you know, then saying and plus I read like facial cues like, so heavily, you know, and if I see her face, like. You know, like remotely, like change. In any way, I'm like. Well, I didn't mean to say it like that.

Or, you know, and I would like stutter and stuff and like, now I just I'm grateful that we're to a point to where I can just be like, That's not what I said. Yeah, let me finish, you know, anything. And then we can just continue that. And I love that so. Much for her. But yeah, I know. Like, I remember whenever you told me you were going to stay and it was literally like I had just got, like, stabbed right in my heart.

And it wasn't necessarily because of the plans that you and I had made of, like trying to get you out again and all of that. It was literally because I. Knew. That it was going to happen all over again. It was going to be okay for a little bit, but then it wasn't going to be okay once he knew he had. His hooks back in you. Yeah. Like it was going to go right back to what it was before.

And I remember like whenever we were sitting in the car after we had come back together and you were like, It, it's happening all over again. Yeah. And you're like, Don't you know, don't. Let me yeah. Don't let me say. And I'm like. That for him. Yeah, I'm so happy for you guys. Yeah. I mean, our little. Because at that point I had already made up my mind that if she was going to stay, then our friendship could not continue. Yeah, that's a boundary. And it was. Because.

Not because I didn't love her. Not because I didn't have love for her. Because you loved her, correct? Yeah. And it was like I can't watch this again. And, you know, and I was going through my own stuff and, you know, all of that at the same time. And so it's like, you know, like and we got to we got to figure it out. You know, she has to learn for herself. I've got to, you know, I've got to learn for myself. And just like she said, we had to break that codependency that we had on each. Other.

talking to Tricia, you were also an abusive relationship, correct? Yes, I. So I didn't even realize that the relationship was so psychologically sound. So I enlisted. Yeah. Like, basically until. After. That makes sense. But I can honestly and be 100% honest and say, like, we were both toxic in that relationship. Yeah, I was reactive in. So, you know, reactive. Abusive is the thing. It's not let's, let's dismantle that really quick. Because.

I don't think that reactive abuse I think that that's a very harmful narrative for victims of abuse. And I think that we should reframe it and say that this is my reaction to abuse. Okay. Not reactive abuse. You know what I'm saying? Because when people abuse and abuse and nit pick and all this stuff, that is what they do to produce an emotional reaction or response from their victims.

And so I think that that's a really harmful phrase that kind of needs to be dismantled and kind of regrouped a little bit. Because for victims like that, further victim blaming and insinuating that victims themselves are abusive. You know, can. I ask a question? Sure. Do you think at some point it can become reactive abuse where you have your spirit has been soured to such a degree, to where you were actually abusing? No. You know, you don't think? I don't. Think so.

Because in that case, like you are defending yourself. And so for like victims that have been berated and psychologically abuse and coercive, controlled and isolated, it's so unjust and unfair to judge a victim's reaction to abuse. What if that reaction is on someone else that's not the abuser. What does it become then? I don't I've never really, like, seen or like seen any cases or anything like that where that happened.

It's only happened with abusers that I've seen where abusers will use like children or anything like that. But I don't know. That's like a question. Yeah. For example, you off the air. If you're you know, you're in a relationship where you're being abused and you take it out on your children, you are emotionally abusive with.

Them. Yeah. Is that does that become your responsibility in that point for not for not having the ability to handle what's being put on you in a way to not put it on somebody else? Yeah. I mean, I think that you should take accountability for that for sure. Because I know, like, I have been guilty of that. You know, and earlier on in my relationship with my husband, with my children. really? Good question. I'm going to have to think on that. I mean, you can. Yeah, let me think on.

That, because I'm I that's really good. And the reason why I ask is because I definitely think that victim blaming is a real thing. Yeah. Should not be should not be done. People don't choose to be abused. Right. Like, that's. But I think it's also an offending thing to do to to be very self aware. Yeah. And so whenever you're starting to let something that is affecting you negatively affect other people. Yeah, I think that at some point you have to take culpability of that, right?

And change something. That's more like. Disregulation, I feel like, because when you're talking about the phrase reactive abuse is literally just meaning towards the victim and the abuser. Right. So when you're involving other people, that's more of like you're emotionally disregulated and you're taking your anger out on other people. Right. And I don't think that that's that's a very like thin line because you have to learn how to regulate emotionally.

And if you're constantly being abused, it's really hard to do. Not like I was never the a person that would take my emotions out on other people because I was being abused because I knew that I had to do better for my children. And I was like the shield, you know? And I'm saying that, like in those cases, I really feel like it's directly just correlating with the abuser and the victim.

And so if you are being reactive because your partner was constantly like harassing you in the house and belittling you, you know. So I had no emotional self control. Right. Like, genuinely. Do you feel like your autism played a part in that? Or you're like, My ADHD makes it very. Hard to react now that. So I feel like I was misdiagnosed most with bipolar disorder.

But really, it's like ADHD, rage, autism rage, like not being able to like, understand and control, like the overstimulation, the dysregulation, all of those things that's happening. And it literally comes out as rage. But I. Was taught that. At a young age, like I was taught that whenever that standing up for yourself meant fighting. You know, And so any time, you know, I haven't talked about this publicly, so. And this. Girl. Yeah. So my ex had a lot of affairs.

But I never had 100% proof of the affairs, but I knew it was happening. But even whenever she looked at me and said, I didn't go to this Christmas program, that some of our really good friends were there, children were in it, and she met her ex on a park and they kissed. But she didn't tell me that until, like, two years after it happened. So then. It's like. But you can't be mad because it happens so long ago, but, you know, it is playing into them.

Yeah. And so then it's like, yeah, you know, like, thank you so much for like, being honest with me and telling me that, but then thinking about it and it really hitting and then getting angry because it's like, how could you do that? You know? I mean, I punched holes in walls, you know, I kicked holes in walls. Like I would literally I would lose it. And so then I would be made out to be the crazy one. And it's like, look at you. You know, look at how you're acting.

If you if I felt like you loved me, I wouldn't have done that If I felt like I was getting the attention from you that I needed, I wouldn't have done that. And then I start feeling bad about myself because it's like. my gosh. Yeah, like, I, I. I could have done better. I can do better. I can. Give me a chance. Let me do better Whenever they're the, you know, like they're the one that went out and yeah, found somebody else, you know.

And I mean, and ultimately that's how our relationship ended is I found out that she was like, I had 100% proof that there was an affair. And whenever I found out, it was like 2:00 in the morning. Yeah. I flipped a light on. I threw something at her, and then we started going at it like we sort of fighting. I punched a hole in the wall in the garage, and then she started crying and she was like. And I looked at her in that moment and I said, You're not sorry.

You're not sorry because of what you did. You're sorry because I caught you. And I was like, You need to leave. Were you ever like, actually, physically, you put your hands on each other. In that one particular moment, like whenever that was happening? Yeah. Like, I mean, we were like, wrestling because she was trying to get her phone away from me because I was trying to. Call. The lady and because I was. You're spinning. Out. Yeah, I sure was. And anyways. And she has a scar on her arm.

From. Where I was, like, crying, flying at her. But we were outside of that. We were never physical with each other. It was just. Like, more. Verbal and emotional than anything. I mean, I couldn't leave the house if I had an address and I'd have to literally been down and touch my toes.

no, it's too short. You can't wear that. No. You know, but then, you know, made to be like, but I'm just looking out for you, you know, because, you know, y you know, people just coming up to you and thinking, you know, do the, the, the in like. So then I'm like, Like too much means you're protecting me. I see her story is a great example because many people think like in my case like that it's just men that can be narcissistic or abusive.

Like women are just more capable of being manipulative and stuff. But, you know, it's just a prime example, you know? And I mean, like I said, I can say that, you know, I, I can take fault or take accountability for the parts that I played because there was a lot of situations that I could have handled better. But in that moment, I didn't know any better. I think that it's important that you corrected that from fault to accountability. Yes, those are two different things.

Yes. And, you know, I like my wife and I, we have had some really rough patches in our relationship where we argued so ferociously that it seemed like we were not even two humans anymore. Yeah, but that was we're both ADHD, and neither one of us knew enough about ADHD to understand the emotional dysregulation that comes with that and learning that part, that piece of it has completely changed our relationship. Yeah, like we both understand, like she's not as mad as she seems right now.

Yeah, she needs to process or he's not as like, I often would just not tap into my emotions at all because I didn't want to go to that angry place. And so she had to learn like, he's not trying to not feel right. He's trying to, like, take this and in a way that he can process it in a safe way. And both of us learning like, she doesn't prod me, I don't want to react back to those huge.

Yeah. And it just completely changed everything because there is a difference between an abusive relationship and learning how to be in a relationship. Correct. And if you love somebody, sometimes it's. It does take work. Yeah. And it's okay to say like, is this something that is salvageable? Are we willing to put in the work to be a safe, loving couple? And. Yeah, and we definitely had a defined ah, group. And I think that that's great. Because.

What makes relationships like that so beautiful is the fact that you can talk about it, take accountability. You whenever you came into awareness of what was happening, you made the conscious decision to change the behavior. Yes. And so what makes it not okay is whenever you come into awareness of what is happening and you choose not to change the behavior. Or you turn it back on the other person. Correct. And that's not a part of that, because a lot of people are like.

Well. Saying why you should know better or you should have done the issue issues. And it's like, but that's the thing about being conscious and unconscious. When you're in a state of unconsciousness, you don't have the awareness, you don't know better. And so whenever you do become enlightened and aware, then you are presented with the opportunity of choices. Do I want to continue this. Cycle. Or do I want to heal and end these toxic cycles? You know, and that's a choice.

And a lot of people don't want to make that choice because being in what's always been comfortable is safer than diving into the unknown and being uncomfortable in life, sitting in your own shit. So you know what I'm saying? Because and then when you have somebody that is willing to sit in that with you, that's fantastic because you're not responsible for somebody else. You're not responsible for changing someone else or whatever.

And like as a recovering people pleaser, I was always that trying to be the martyr and the rescuer and the do it all friend and be it all. And and because I'm so enthusiastic and passionate, like when I'm learning something new, I want to tell everybody and I want to take everybody with me, but not realizing like some things are just meant for you in that moment. So I sit with that and like, just allow Spirit to use you in that way.

And you people can choose to come if they want to, you know, and say, because I had it was hard for me because I love like having like meaningful conversations. Like it's very hard for me to like, just have like superficial conversations. And I'm. Like. What do I do? You know? And so I disassociate real quick, like, yes, like, you know, the two word you did today? Yeah, something like that.

That brings me back to something you guys said in your in your bio normalizing platonic friendship and showing others they can build lasting relationships through vulnerability, community, love and support. So that part to me, like that's immediately what I want to go to in my friendships. You as well. You as well. The thing we all have in common is that we have a lowered social filter because of our ADHD, because of autism. We like to skip through the BS. Yeah.

What does that look like in your opinion, to people Like I want to that I want to say normies, but like, you. Know, neurotypicals, muggles. Is that okay? Is that what you're talking about? When you say moguls on your show, are you talking about the people who don't exactly think like us? Hey, I never really thought about it like. That, but I guess they. Just you to Harry. Potter. Yeah, it's huge Harry Potter fans.

But I think that like it does become very challenging when you are narrative urgent and especially when you're still learning about ADHD and autism. Because like I always knew, I think once I got into my early twenties and I started to learn about ADHD, I just knew. But I didn't get a diagnosis until I was like 33, you know? And so and then even with autism, that has just been within the last year.

wow. And so, like, I am still learning myself as well because when I've been in a domestic violence relationship for over a decade, too, so who am I? You know, like really having to learn my sense of self. And so when it comes to like having to make friendships with other people and try to develop this community, sometimes it does become challenging.

I know it has been like for us growing up because a lot of those relationships even I had to realize like a 17 year relationship I was in was like very superficial. God. And that's hard because you have to grieve that, you know what I mean? And like the lack of depth and support and uplifting and encouragement and then also, like taking accountability for yourself where you self-sabotage, where you let down your boundaries, where you you know what I'm saying?

Because you can't just put the blame on another person because you're responsible for yourself in that. But I know it's been very challenging for me to like, develop relationships with people, and especially because, like, people would always just like look at me as a pretty face. And so that was really frustrating because I'm like super fucking goofy and like outgoing and like, I just want to, like, talk about dinosaurs, you know, and just like, do weird things together.

Let's, let's go collect rocks, you know? But like, I literally like, yeah, but I've had men like, tell me that like that I don't want to get too close to you because I'm really sexually attracted to you. And I'm like, That's such a bummer, man. Like, because guy, like, I'm really causing. You to say. You're missing out because there's been times I want to have that relationship with men and not be sexualized. Yeah, you know.

And like, that seems, you know, especially when you think that they're like a really amazing person, you might connect with them. Like musically, you're like, whatever. And I really struggle with having these meaningful relationships with people. And. Specifically because of ADHD and autism, because I just don't connect with you in that way. And that's hard. So I spent I mean, I'm an only child, you know, so I've learned to like, be alone. And I like I'm okay with that.

But I think naturally, as humans, like, we are not designed to be alone, like we are meant for community. And so finding your community, yeah, it's. Very. Important. It is. And it happens, though, when she's seven two online. Yeah. Is what I've learned. You know. For me, I get told I'm a B-word all the time because I'm blunt, like straight to the point and I'm so that makes me Yeah.

and that you know, it's like I'm just direct and instead of it being looked at as assertive or direct, it's why are you being aggressive? And that's like. How is me telling you that what you just said makes no sense, Meaning aggressive me being honest. So like, you know, or, you know, trying to like. If you're confused. Pause real quick. I just stopped recording. I think that. Once again, just daily accompaniment sort of sense. Right?

Thinking that you were just talking about people asserting that's your aim a B word because you're you're honest. Yeah. And I mean, not saying that I can't be because I can, but I m I like, I am not afraid to just say it, but it's like, I don't know how else to say it. It takes more work to try to beat around the bush and think of, like I'm trying to think of an example that my brain can't come up with like right now. But you know. You have a motor in your nose.

Yeah. Like instead of being like, man, like sometimes whenever I get it, like, sometimes I like to just get tissues and just kind of like, wipe through on my nose, you know, instead of just looking on them being like, Hey, you got to pick when your nose. Like, it takes more effort to come up with a whole scenario to beat around the bush than just saying it. Yeah. And I found a very similar thing because I'm I can be brash at times, but what I what I've found is. That.

I've had to start asking myself, is it helpful? Is it timely? And I'm not being kind. Like if I can answer any one of those three questions with a no, then it's either needs to wait till another time or And that's that's been a process. Yeah, that's been a process of learning that I can be honest because that is my authentic self. But if my honesty is making other people unhappy, that's not, that doesn't line up with what I want for myself or other people.

So that means there's not an authentic value for me. So that means I need to work on it. I mean, it's something I need to grow. Let me challenge you in that aspect. So when it comes to like being authentic in relationship and there's something that you need to be honest with your friend about and having an uncomfortable conversation, do you hold responsibility for their emotions? Like with that. I hold responsibility for my with my affect on their emotions.

Okay. And that's that's not saying that I'm not going to ever make anybody sad. We're like I've told my friends recently that we're moving to the northeast, like we're moving to New England, and that that has hurt a lot of people's feelings. They're upset about it, but I can't take that on right. Because, you know, my joy and happiness and the joy and happiness of my family can't be put, you know, in the back seat to somebody else. Yeah. So as much as I can respect myself, first, Yes.

Then their emotions come next. Yeah. And so whenever I can live my full best self and not hurt other people, that's that's what I want to do. But sometimes, yeah, I'm going to hurt other people. Sometimes. Often there's a choice to do it an honorable way. I just really try to like, especially whenever I'm talking to her, it's kind of the my, my beginning of a conversation is don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be mean. I just don't know how else to say it.

So I'm just going to say it. Because I'm so sensitive. And so like I always try really hard to, you know, like it may come out, you know, some type of way, but please know that I am like saying what I have to say with love. I just don't know how else to say it. But, you know. It is sad because, like, I feel like you can apply that with children. Wow. Like, what a great quick mantra. You know. I do have children and it is like really?

Yeah, It involves the person that I am so much better because, you know, I'm still just a big kid myself, but I'm the responsible one. Yeah. So this does. Yes, that goes. That's an awful thing. Don't don't let me have you thinking that I'm perfect, that this that I'm going to nail every time. My wife will hopefully tell you that I hurt her feelings all the time. But I don't it's not my goal. And I'm not going to apologize and say I did that wrong. So what are the three again?

It is. Is it timeless? Is it comes? Is it healthy? It's great. Genuinely, I got it. I need to work on that. I'll write a note because I do it. With the way that I am. Like I have to have hard, fast rules. Yeah, I like things that are nebulous. I lose them. Like that's that's not what works for me. I need to have things that I can go to and like, here's here's the checklist. And it's like, if I have a checklist and I can go through that, then that's something that will stay.

That's something I'll keep going back to and saying, okay, yeah, this that doesn't meet the test, Does it help? Is it help them? So yeah, it is. Again, yeah. Got to share that note with me. Okay. By the way, I can see it too. And I don't know, like I've questioned it, but I don't know that I'm autistic, so I don't. Yeah. I'm curious as to how you found for it. First, let me go back to you guys being five and finding each other.

Like. How quickly did you recognize that this person gets you in a way that other people haven't? I think it was pretty quick, like we don't like. For me, I don't remember a lot of like that early years. Like we we grew up in Sunday school together and for me, I think it was like probably like late elementary when we really started like getting super, super close. And then by the time we got to seventh grade, then we were just like inseparable.

But, you know, because of what I was going through as a child, like she was kind of like playing the rescuer, you know, And plus she had two older brothers. And so, like, she was that like protector. And, you know, you're going to ride the bus home with me, you know, and things like that. And that's kind of how she was like with anybody else. Know, I would like. Get on the phone with her mom.

God. And I'd be like, You better not ever put your hand on my 12 year old, you know, coming back to your house. Yeah, You did it. Yeah. She was bold. Yeah. Do you think that that speaks to your optimism, the ability to not see injustice go on? Do you do as well. As I do? And I didn't get. I was 34 whenever I got diagnosed with autism and ADHD.

And so back in that day, you know, I was just always told that I was just a really aggressive child because any time something would happen, like I was always like, No, that's not right. Yeah. You know, like where you know, like saying, I got in fights a lot, but I never started them, right? You know, But like. Not a sarcasm. Right? Because, you know. We were talking about this, I think yesterday. You know, me and my brothers, whenever we were young, we were very all the time.

Like we would go out and we loved each other very, very much. But whenever we would fight like it was very aggressive. And the don't let anybody come in and try to think that they're going to mess with one of us, because then you get all three of us from that, you know, and disaster for the other person anyways. But I remember I was getting bullied hardcore and for whatever reason I had a hard time like standing up to these girls at school that were bullying me in that I was coming home.

My mom tried really hard to go to the school, talk to the school, like tried to handle it correctly, and it just wasn't getting better. It was making the situation worse. And literally finally, my mom looked at me and said, If you don't fight those girls like you fight your brothers, I'm going to fight you. And I was terrified of my mother, you know? And so I'm like, okay, because that's not a fight. I want to participate.

I don't want that. So yeah. No. And so then literally, you know, that's really whenever it started. And then my mom now to this day says I unleashed a monster is like how she describes it because then it was like anytime something would happen I'm like, well, it's not a fight of now. Is these against, you know? And that was, you know, my career started, but I got picked on a lot because like I was, I wanted to be friends with everybody. So that meant that I was flirt.

I was trying to take people's boyfriends. I was trying to be as you know, it's like, no, like when I'm I'm a tomboy. I grew up with brothers who were wrestlers and I wanted to be a wrestler, but my mom said no. So then I had to do gymnastics and cheerleading. But like, I was always very like, you know, like physical, like I wasn't afraid to get dirty. I was like, I know, like, and so I was friends with everybody.

And I gravitated more towards the guys because that's just what I was always around, you know? And so that meant that I was a hoe. And, and plus we were. Like, really? You know, deep in like the black community and like. So that became an issue, you know. What do y'all grow in more? You know? But I mean, you just literally because the majority of our friends were black, like that was just an issue for everybody else.

You know, like we would be called like N-word lovers and, you know, and it was vile because the same white boys that were saying this, their best friends were black, you know? And so, like, it was just such a really strange concept. And like, I think the way that we were raised in church, too, we were also getting it from adults, which was like super weird and off putting. And we just knew at an early age like, this isn't what it means to be loving. My dad's likely to from My God.

Church Yes. And the seniors, they would do most likely twos. So they would hold a service. And they would present. All the seniors with grow up and most likely to, you know, like I think Marilyn's was grow up in those like city. Like American. Idol, literally this guy who was one of the the interns or whatever they were called, and he went up there and he was black and he was like, this award, I have to present myself because this girl's like my little sister or one.

I immediately knew he was talking about me. I still have my certificates. It was most likely to surprise us all and marry a white guy. yes. And she did like it didn't last very long, but, you know, like, hey, that was that was. You know, I'm grateful for that, but we're better for it than we were, you know, relationship. But you have a great father to our children. So. Marilyn, can I ask you, do you have any any black in your lineage at all?

So when I did my DNA, I was actually kind of like super low key, like sad because it looked like a lot than colonizers. my gosh, No, But it. Was like trace back to, like, even after I mean, like, we all come from Africa is my belief anyway. But yeah, there was like a I'm your mother. Sorry. Like it could be traced back to East Africa, but like, at the end of the day, it's like Scottish British and I'm like, like 1% Italian or something like that. You know. I haven't done.

Mine, but I just, like I would say, I'm a woman that happens to be white. But I know, like deep down in my soul, like I was a black woman, you know, in my past life, native, you know. Well, you. Look like you have carried a little bit melanin in your skin. That's why. I mean, that's why I ask. And, you know. I'll take the first sign. So left me all winter.

I'm not going to present it as it's a compliment or not, because I've often been told that, you know, I'm not really black as a as being a compliment. And that's not a compliment to me. No, I'm black and I'm proud of that. And if you're, you know, whatever you are. Yeah, that's you are perfectly, you know. Well, I guess my friend Gibbs gets kind of scary. So I'm a I'm in. A good sense, being proud of whiteness, but, like. I love it, but I'm not really, like, out. Here. Yeah, I get to be white.

I just wake up, you know, and it's like, now I know that you also do, but the police say so sorry. I'm sorry to do this. You know. I stay away from the news. Okay? So, no, I don't either. But we live my parents, you know, and they just stay on Fox News all the time. But it was wild. And like, I was jokingly so my dad, I was like, watch, because the guy that they were chasing was driving his truck. And I was like, Yeah, America. And I was like.

But I guarantee you has like the American flag. On. When he finally stopped, he got out of the car. He had an American flag shirt. On his back about two points to the door. This is my right as an American to run from the cops. Yeah, it was great. It was nice. But yeah, I. Am very nice. So that was cool. It is my through Healy. I actually got to tap into a lot of my past lives, which has been such a really amazing spiritual experience.

Like really freaking. Cool. So I have learned that I actually had a shroom experience a couple of years ago, and it was such like a grieving process. Well, it was actually last year because to like, I'm in the middle of like all of this like court stuff happening and I'm away from my kids for two weeks out of the month. Like I go from being with my kids all the time to now having to be separated from them.

And I was like a Native American woman who had two children that got taken away to boarding school. And like, I mean, all of this grief just like, washed over me, like grieving children that I had lost and so in every past life that I have, like experience up until now, I've always had children. They've always gotten. Lost or I. Don't you know, dad or something like that. And then the most recent one wall to Moses's mother, who was Mary Elizabeth.

My name is Maryland Elizabeth, but it's like 97 E and there is a lot of like irony there. Like even with like Moses, like Deacon. My son's name is Deacon. He's named after Wolverine in the comics and he was actually trying to be killed by what's his name. I'm going to play Wolverine. Ah, this is no. The guy that was trying to kill Wolverine. Wolverine, Sabertooth. No, that's like a guy. Dig. my God. It's going to drive me nuts now.

Anyways, their names are literally about the same because Romulus was the one I was trying to kill. I mean, Romulus was trying to kill Daken and Rameses was trying to kill Moses. I don't know. Super cool. There's a lot of stuff. But anyway, you. Definitely delve into your past life stuff on your episode because that's something I will definitely develop some questions.

On. Yeah. You know, whenever there's something that comes on the show that I don't have the ability to affirm or deny, Yeah, like I believe that spiritual healing is a real thing. I believe that, you know, I believe strongly in the universal resolve that we are all connected. That's those are things that I'm I'm strongly passionate about. Never comes to pass lines. I'm interested. Yeah, but I'm not going to say like, I totally cosign this, you know, I'm all about the past, but I'm interested.

I want to hear more about what you found. And I'm a very curious person, and I'd like to not discount any of that. You know, I don't know. Sorry. Neither one of you can talk now. So we're just going to sit here for the next 30 minutes. No, please don't respect me, James. That would be very uninteresting. You know? So to me, it's kind of a re guide a little bit.

Let me ask another question that's like we've talked about so many of the things I want to ask about just kind of through attrition, because you guys are the things that have shaped you are the ones I wouldn't want to ask about, but let's talk about this. So I talked in today's reflection about sharing those fears and stresses that we conditioned ourselves to believe were too heavy to share with anyone ever. I know that I Neurodivergent makes it easier for me to share more of myself.

The most hesitation. But years of trauma, followed by many more years of masking, created a dam of festering truth, and I was able to completely ignore for like a really, really long time. It was built very well. So it wasn't until I was and risk of losing everything through behaviors that I was doing that didn't really align with who I claim to be, that I had to start asking questions of myself and, you know, poking and prodding that damn little bit.

And when I did, you know, it just it came crumbling down and I was left like, about nosedive and all the different lies, deceptions to myself and different like, I know different like harsh realities that I hadn't I hadn't even realized I hadn't dealt with, you know, as far back as, like, my childhood trauma and other stuff. Do you feel I'm sorry, but in that moment, like I had my first real taste of authenticity of like being honest to myself and saying, like, I am messed up.

Yeah. But, like, as scary as that was, it felt good. Yeah. Like It felt like the for the first time ever, like I was really here. Yeah. I mean, maybe not ever, but since, like, high school. Yeah, like, so do you do the experience of telling each other that you were being abused or opening up about your sex with, like, your sexual assault of either of those things have to have that feeling of this is this terrible thing that I have to face.

But sharing it with somebody I love actually makes me feel a different kind of real in life. Yeah, for me. So she came into awareness about certain like different behavior types. And so with that, before I really and so she would be talking to me about things, I'm like, wow. Like I feel that like I went through something similar to that or, you know, I would, you know, And so having her, it really, you know, like, what am I trying to say?

It helped me be able to process my feelings and now, like I said earlier, like I haven't really talked publicly about things that I've gone through in my life, like literally the only person that I've shared things with is her. Because if I do in the past, trying to share my experiences or things that have happened to me, it's that didn't happen or I don't remember it like that or, you know, like literally. And so then I question my experiences.

And so then I had to really, you know, like whenever I started coming into awareness about things, I had to really sit down and like, sit with myself. And so then as things are coming up for me, I have somebody that I can call and I can say, this was my experience, this is what happened, this is how it made me feel. And she doesn't try to change my mind. It's those feelings are valid.

Yeah. Like, and so for me it has made me being able to talk about these things because I get a lot like this is family stuff. We don't talk about it outside of the family. We don't talk about it, you know, like with people, you know? And so it's like it was difficult. But then once I started, I was like like I was able to release those grades and having someone who didn't judge me didn't invalidate me, didn't, you know, tell me that those experiences didn't happen and just being met with.

Yeah, those are some really big feelings. And those feelings are valid. Yeah. Like that has helped me be able to work through the things that I've kept bottled up inside my whole life. And so, like, I'm grateful, you know, for that. I'm grateful for that space that, you know, we've kind of created with each other.

I mean, we give our unsolicited advice and stuff like that, but a lot of times like we're able to just really listen to each other and like then and get it out and, you know, like, well, how. Has that helped you with, like, wanting to like, now feel empowered to share with others? Because I'm not the only one that has experienced the things that I've experienced, no matter how long I've gone. And I'm like, I've been through more in my life like saying this as a teenager.

I've been through more in my life than most adults have ever been in their entire life. And, you know, like, but I'm not the only one in. So there might be someone out there who hears my story or Here's what I have to say that can be like Dave. I feel that, you know, like I can resonate with that. And then they're able to come into awareness and start feeling things that they've probably bottled up in, you know, in. So now it's like, Let's do this, guys. Let's talk about our traumas.

Let's talk about the things that have hurt us. Let's talk about the things that people don't want us to talk about. Yeah. So that way we can heal as a community as a whole, because it takes nothing to be kind to somebody. It takes nothing to be an ear. Now, if you know you're not mentally prepared for that, it's also okay to say, I'm not mentally ready to hear what you need to tell me.

But you know, Yeah, So give me a minute and let me like, regulate myself and process this and we can come back and talk about it. Like, yeah, let me just inject really quick, like the importance of either one saying, I'm not comfortable talking about that.

This part of me is for myself or these other two options of being honest while you go through whatever it is you're going through I think is so, so important because like you said, maybe somebody else has gone through it and can look at you and say, Wow, I'm not alone. I think that's so important. But also it can have, you know, not being honest about it can have the negative effect, saying that I'm going through this thing and I'm totally fine. Yeah, it can. Make people feel crazy.

You know, I'm not fine. Yeah, it's like. Saying I'm not fine, I think is one of the strongest things that you can do to help people, because if they're looking at you and thinking that you're going through this thing and they handle the same thing poorly, they're going to people, you know, it's natural for us to compare ourselves to other people who have.

And if we look at, you know, it's like you're going through this thing and I totally fall apart and she's like, keeping everything together and like, what's wrong with me? Yeah, well, nothing's wrong with you, but we all fall apart to different degrees. I think we should be honest about it. So I, you know. Whatever degree you fall apart, too, is perfectly okay. Yeah. And it's. One of my.

Favorite things to say is it's okay to not be okay because you have to in order to be true to yourself and to be authentic, you have to allow yourself to feel your emotions good, bad or indifferent. Whatever they are, you have to allow yourself to feel them so you can move through that. And that's the part of being to being true to yourself. I think, like you were saying, like going inward is like one of the most ugliest, scariest, messiest things ever because like, we invaded.

Our. Cause. And I know, like, I guess I'm grateful for hyper fixation because that has really like, led me down the rabbit holes of like my spiritual awakening. And because, you know, we grew up in the church, so there's a lot of religious trauma there. So I had to like, really separate myself from that and find my own spiritual journey and like, what? What are my values and beliefs and what do I align with?

Because from the moment airborne, if you grow up in that indoctrination, like you're automatically told what you believe, what you should believe, who you are, what you should do. And it's like, But who am I? Like, I'm not an extension of my parents. Like I'm not an extension of anybody else. I am myself. And so what does that mean for me? Like, how can I show up and like, when I was going through this stuff last year, like that was a very deep place for me to be in.

Like we talked about, like on the floor, a fetal position, snot crying, you know, and like really allowing myself to grieve and like, feel every emotion, even if it was uncomfortable and doing deep, deep shadow work, man. Like, really going inward and saying, What about me? Like, because I know I'm the villain in other people's stories, you know, saying and like having to take accountability of like, you know, I'm not going to be everybody's cup of tea.

And if there is a way that I can change and make healthier choices that are aligned with my truth, you know, where I'm not trying to shrink myself for other people's comfort because, boy, I would I would deem that like, you know, and I just was like, I don't want to do that anymore because, like, the moment I made the decision to even leave, like literally Spirit just was aligning every single thing in front of me. And that was so beautiful for me to see.

And it was a impactful lesson of like, when are you going to release the need to control? And that was hard, is having to like not be in control of things. And as a trauma survivor, child is something that you do try to control because everything else you haven't been allowed to control. Yeah, you know, and so I've had to learn like the only thing that I can control is myself.

And so if I can learn to emotionally regulate and love myself and not just like superficially either, you know what I mean? Like all of the past versions of myself, like releasing any guilt in shame for not knowing, for being so weird. I know that yesterday, just like the cringe Facebook memories. my God, I think is such a great reminder of our past. So, you know, the. Yeah, because.

You know, I was doing shows and stuff like, I wish my real supporters would come out tonight, you know, and just all these subliminal comments, you know, And. I'm like, no, why? You know, even if I mean. But just being honest about that, I think that's like the real thing that you can do is like learn to, like love and laugh at those past versions of like, man, I spent her so much love, you know, to me and I. I haven't gotten there yet.

And whenever I get a type of memory from my friend on Facebook seven years ago, I'm like, what to do? I know I can. Stay. That guy. Right? It's it's really hard to I want to get to the point where. Yeah, sending that person love. But at this point I'm still like, I can't stand you. yeah. And I really see why, you know, I didn't have any, like, real friends at that point because I was not real. Yeah, everything I put out was fake. And guess what? I was getting fake those in the back.

So that's where Grayson compassion comes in, man, because, like, you know, when you can extend that grace and compassion with yourself, first and foremost, like, Well, let me retract like, I think we often it stands over extend so much grace to other people and we don't give enough grace and compassion towards ourselves. Like we're so ready to easily forgive people and forgive and forgive and forgive when their behavior doesn't change. But yet we don't extend that same grace towards ourselves.

And like we have to remember that like we're. Human. And we are allowed to make mistakes. And what you do with that. Are you going to learn your Dharma from those karmic, you know, experiences? But for those who don't now, will you tell us with almonds? So, Dharma is your lesson that you are meant to learn. So like the wisdom that you gain from having that karmic experience, that's. What you're supposed to take from. The life. Courage and karma is literally just life lessons.

It's life experiences. So if you're in a situation, you know, like it's your job to self-reflect and say, What are the lessons? What can I learn from this? What is this trying to teach me? Instead of like, my God, why is this happening to me? This always happens to me. And, you know, I just blame blame one same thing. If it always. Happens. The thing that's constant is. You. Probably need to change something. And I. Yeah, that's freaking. Hard to take accountability, man.

Like, it's really hard because it requires a level of like, self-reflect soon to really look at yourself in the mirror and just be like, yeah, I haven't been showing up as my best self and what does that look like? So it's been really, I want to say, so exciting for me to like, get to know me, you know, and I to date myself to like, really be with myself. And I really love on inner me and like, sit with her.

And I ask her what is she me like, how can I serve you now as an adult, you know, and like having her take my hand and, like, really just, like, loving on me and assuring me that like, I'm doing a good job, Like I'm really parenting myself, you know, like having to unlearn and unravel those, like, you know, toxic generational cycles that will continue because even with like attachment styles, like insecure attachment styles are typically generational, you know?

And so like, you don't know better, you just going to keep continuing. And so. I want to. I want to say something to a couple of things. You said the first thing is I really appreciate you talking about giving grace to your past self because like, I'm all about like telling people it's like you have to have you have to be graceful to yourself. Like, you know, you can't have negative self-talk. You know, you have to be positive towards your view of yourself.

But I hadn't really taken the time to apply that. It's like I believe in reclaiming your narrative and, you know, and going back and looking at the things that you, you know, you've been through and saying like, here is my culpability in that situation and here's all the things I can let go. It's not my fault. But I never really thought about saying like that person that I was like, he was a douche. Like, saying he was going through a lot. Yeah. And I love him.

Yeah. Like, that's something I haven't taken the time to do. So that's something I'm going to work on. Yeah, because, like, I love doing this show because I get to hear how people, lots of different people from lots of different kinds of backgrounds, from, you know, scientific to, you know, spiritual to, you know, religious, how they all, how they all handle these things.

And my what I like to do is try to take them out of the the packaging that they were doing to me as I was, you know, Christianity or scientific or whatever. And look at the you know, look at the methodology and see like what is actually there? What is it telling you to do? Right? And apply that? Like just apply that to myself.

And then, you know, the fact that I'm, you know, a recovering Christian that is like trying to read, reconnect with that is that doesn't have any effect on me trying to learn to like parent myself. That's not information I was giving right. And that's like that's something I just learned, like on this show like six months ago, like six months ago and three months ago. I'm terrible. If I, if I say a time. Nobody really knew me. Yeah, ignore the time I live. It's like a totally.

Yeah, but that's something that I'm really learning to enjoy is like taking all these different views from all these from people and looking at the thing that it's actually saying to do and applying that and saying like, that's good, right? Yeah. So thank you for that part. And there was something else, but I got lost. So that's okay, right?

Okay. Yeah. And I mean, like even on a constructive time, like it is an illusion and like within our society, it's like there's so much shame and guilt around, like, you should be doing this by this time, or you should be here. You should have a real job, you know? And it's like. Well, I'm getting real money. So that thing, like. Really getting paid. Right.

Now and like, I know that will be like another topic of discussion, but just like lightly, like, you know, that's a huge part of being autistic. And ADHD is like the majority of that community are self-employed because we make up 85% of the unemployment rate, you know, and because people don't want to hire us, you know, and you're really busy now, you know, but like.

You're about or it's just hard to stay interested in it, and especially if it's like a monotonous jazz, you know, like if you're just doing the same thing over impact every day, it's like it you lose interest, like you hyper fixate at first and you're like super excited and you go in all gung ho, you know, and then the excitement wears off and then it's. Reprieve, that dopamine, you know.

And that's why I like that creative, like being able to just create, do anything like, you know, people can look at it as a toxic trait or not, but it's like one day I'm. Making a scarf, next day I'm doing a podcast. You know, like whatever it is. But I think that that's so important to just like, break away from that, like patriarchal, like, you know, corporate America construct out of like just do you mean like.

I tried it on episodes three and four with Derrick, Derek, Sire, and he talked a lot about the importance of that, the hierarchal system existing and how you instead of like ignoring it, how you learn to operate within it in a way that like, respects yourself.

And I thought that was really important conversation because, you know, hearing you talk about it just not being like I don't like I was not a good fit for the fire department, but the first six months of completely breaking you down made me fit to the part where I showed up on time. I was really everything like you. That part is broken, like through very severe.

I'm like I say, I read very severe repetition and like, fear of losing something that you worked so hard for because, you know, when you start anything, you're super excited about it, you know, and you're gung ho and that that goes away. But the amount of repetition and the amount of fear that's built into you for like ever being late, like that is the like almost the biggest faux pas in the fire department that exists.

And it's like showing up late if you're 2 minutes late to work like you will be talked about, like, you know, it's like a bunch of high school like claims. It's so much shame. So I was able to like now I'm on time to everything because they broke and leg. So I you know if I now I've got all this you know now it's much less shame and guilt. Now I do respect other people's time. Right. And that's the thing I'm taken away from it is that Yeah.

If before it was all about like you got to be on time, you got to do this, you got to stick to a schedule. Now I'm less about that now. I'm like, I want to be I want to respect people's time, right? Because that is if we have scheduled time, we're agreeing to the social kind of social contract. That time exists for now. And you've got to respect that person's time and show up for that and be ready for that thing.

Outside of that, I still would want to just, you know, operate totally on my own time. And that's why. It's so important, so. Planned. And it's like we got to be there at a certain time. It's like 6 hours in advance. Okay, I need yeah, 2 hours to get ready. And then I got to incorporate like another hour for like my ADHD brain that, you know, Yeah, we call that scoring and then, you know, drive time. Okay. Takes approximately 47 minutes to get to where we're going.

When I say, you know, we then we're leaving. At 850 this morning, we were in the car, I guess, we were on game this morning. But I think like I think that corporate America or just any place like that, I truly think that they they need to adjust. It's not that us needs to adjust to neurotypical ways. I think that a lot of our ways are actually like really more better. Be honest.

I agree that there's definitely a lot to be gained from what we do, but I think that there's also some of it that needs to be adjusted. Yeah, but you can't do everything that fits all the different varieties. No, no, I just mean like it needs to be more inclusive because a lot of the majority of autistic people to make up the disability community. And so it's like we are told that we don't fit in here.

And so where is there space for us because you discredit our diagnosis or because we have a disability you deem us as unworthy or less than. So now my credentials or schooling or whatever it is that I have to offer is like less credible because I'm autistic or you know what I'm saying? Which is like really strange.

And so there's these really harmful stigmas and stereotypes that are placed on neurodivergent people and I just really wish that those places would be more inclusive and just really have more diversity because like, you're really missing out on like really great people that would do a really great job and benefit your company, you know?

And I don't think that it's neurodivergent people that should have to constantly be made to conform because that is literally what we're taught from birth, is that we have to shapeshift and be like everyone else because we're shame into not being ourselves from an early age. Like, you know. Wear that your illness. Yeah. Keep your mouth shut. Yeah. Pretty girl. Some pretty girls don't say those words. Yeah, don't touch. You're too loud or too this or whatever.

And with ADHD, like it shows up vastly differently for girls than it does boys. Boys is more outwardly girls is more internally. And so, like, there are so many women that are. That's why we don't get diagnosed until early thirties for that specific reason, you know. But mid thirties when I say late, man. I'm not quite no contract of time but. Yeah, like I just, I. Think that it. Needs to be more like inclusive and we need to like really break.

I was in corporate America for ten years and whenever I can say that I loved my job because I loved the people like I did Lena, I managed a grocery store for ten years and it was a big corporate company but in a smaller town. So it still had that like homey feel to it. And at the employees that worked there, they were family. Like I was there almost as much as I was at home, if not. More like knowing every customer by name. Like, you know, you know. And it. Was.

Great. And I loved being able to do what I did. And I think that my neurodivergent helped me be good at it because I was able to understand if you were late, just call and tell me I'm not going to grill you. Right. You know, because things happen. My thing was communication. Yeah. So like. Just be like, Hey, I'm running. I'm not going to write you up for being late, you know, because you had your kids busses was late and you had to wait for them to, you know, get in the door. Just let me know.

So then I'm not worried because if I start worrying, like, where are they at? Is everything okay? They're always here. Like, what's going on? Then I'm going to get frustrated, you know? But like, so we literally have such a great line of communication and everybody knew how to do everything. Like I taught, like what we call cross train. I taught them all how to do different things.

So if they needed a break from the register, they could go stock or if they needed a break from stocking, they could go help out in the deli or hamburger, you know what I'm saying? And so I was like, So everybody, you know, I had people who, you know, were neurodivergent different disabilities, you know, all different areas with people. But we literally worked together as a team and it was beautiful because. Dress like this literally is.

Gone downhill so much. And but they like because I would all I never asked anyone to do anything that I wasn't willing to do myself. Yeah. Like if I'm like, Hey, I need you to go through a track, you better believe I'm going to be right next to you throwing a truck with you, right? If I ask you to go clean a toilet, I'm going to be in the very next door scrubbing a toilet, too, you know? And so but we were able to keep it exciting.

So that way, a job that would be seemingly monotonous, doing the same thing over and over every day, everybody got breaks and was able to do a little bit of everything. My first real job was at Wild Oats, which then got bought by Whole Foods. So I did the grocery store thing for a long time and I was on the other side of that. I was the neurodivergent undiagnosed at the time. Who was always running late and would never call like I would.

You know, I was like, because I always thought I could make it. Yeah. You know what I would say to you if you walked in and you didn't call? Hey, is everything okay? And that was the difference is over there. I was going to get, you know, I'm going to get chastised and get written up. And then the fear next time I was running late was just don't call, because then they're going to know that you're late again. Right.

So if you can sneak in one minute, guys, what, you never got there at that time to. See that rumination, like those intrusive thoughts like are so real and so like when you start going down a shame spiral like, well, no, I'm not good enough because I'm now I'm always fighting, you know, like. It just a mile a. Minute, you know, every single time. But like I because my always my main concern was making sure you were okay. Now then, once I knew you're okay, I'd be like, Bro, why didn't you call?

Yeah. And so, you know. I was another reporter yesterday with a totally at a beacon and a book. And he and I talked about my workshop called Authentic Leadership. And you're talking about exactly what I teach now, because, I mean, what's you're talking about is so important to building a good team. Like for one, you actually care. Like, that's the I mean, that's the biggest part is I actually care about your team because in there they're going to want to perform for you

when they see that that care is real. Yeah. Whenever you fake it, they're going to they're going to want to pull, you know, pull the wool over your eyes and trick you and manipulate you or whatever. But if you actually care, I mean, so important. So I wish I had in those early years, I wish when I didn't even know I was ADHD, I wish I had someone saying like, Hey, is everything okay? Yeah, I'm like. Now I'm just running behind all the time. Yeah. Maybe you should talk to somebody. Yeah.

Like, literally, like. And I would have employees and I'm like, Hey, if it's. If that's the case, set your alarm 30 minutes early to allow yourself to hit snooze, like, literally like. And I'm always, like, trying to come up with solutions that, like, every new hire, every new employee that would come in that store, I would personally take them upstairs with the paperwork. Do their paperwork with them, talk to them, get to know them.

I mean, like it was like always a to how to our like new hire process. But I mean, they got paid for it, right? Paperwork, you know, But like, I'm like, hey, you know, I'm going to be, you know, busy for the next few hours. Like, I need you to, you know, handle things down there. But if you absolutely need me, can get me whatever. But I would literally spend that time with them, and then I would look at them and I'm like, Hey, like, we're family here.

So if you need anything, work or work related or not, come talk to me. I may not be able to offer a solution, but I can at least be an ear, you know, so that way we can fit in. That's literally how I was able to build such a relationship with each one of the employees. And so then when corporate came in to fire me for a 22nd ticktock of me dancing after the store had closed in my. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Like just. Being goofy. Like, yeah.

No, that's advertising. Yeah. Yeah. And so they came out the very next day talking about I was unprofessional. I wasn't a good leader. I like, went off on them. I was like, first of all, I have broke my back for you guys. I've opened stores, I've trained people. I've traveled like, get out of here with that. And I'm like, I can walk down those stairs and ask any one of those employees down there to do something, and they'll do it without arguing. Not to mention, okay, like literally.

Like never getting a raise. Like something like 1400 a month. Managing a grocery store. 13, 25 an hour. I but I did it for so long because of the people that I worked with. Yeah. And so literally I got out like, because they told me, they said I think they were coming out there to fire me, but my store looked so good that the only thing they could say was there's some employees wearing hoodies and we can't see their work shirt.

And I said, Then send me hoodies because I'm not going to make my employees work in the cold. And then they wrote me, I've been on my write up. It said next offense is termination. Mind you, me and the customers are doing line dances in the aisles. I take dance breaks. Okay. Like we have the studio, you know, the Copperhead Road would come on the radio and I'd start on it, and customers would come do it with me. Employees, you know, like it was just such a great environment to me.

K We were number two in the entire company for our sales, and we were in small town. Wow. Like, so then whenever they did that, I was like the audacity, like literally that let me know what I actually meant to them. I was nothing. I was replaceable. They weren't worried about actually doing anything to benefit me because of a 22nd silly dance video. kay. I got up and I did the robot and I was like corporate robot, no fun at work. And then I put my two weeks in the next day. Wow.

I mean, that kind of mirrors my experience in which you are as far as success goes, it's it's documented how well you were doing the job. Right. But then corporate at it from their side and says you're not doing it how we told you. To right Yeah. And that's that's my problem with ADHD is that in the workplace is that because I'm not doing it the way you told me to It's why I'm so low. I am so successful. Yes, that's. Why. Wow. Yeah, my clients love me.

That's why I've got better numbers because you've always done it the same. And I'm offering fresh perspective. Yeah, yeah. Don't do that. And that's like, that's a lot of, like, pathological demand avoidance too. Like with ADHD or is like once you me like not to do something. I know throughout the third and the fourth I never. I never thought about that. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's not that I didn't never consciously thought that, but I did get in trouble for the same thing, just slightly different ways. Yeah, a lot. But it's hard. It's like my brain is telling me that it needs to be this way, though. Like, I'm trying so hard to do it. How you told me to, but, like, literally, like what I'm doing is so much more functional. You notice, and I don't care where it's. But I realized that we're going to have this shelf is why I worked at Walgreens. You know, I'm like.

you know, but that's hard. And I really struggle too, with like, not when people don't understand, like with ADHD, like you have to have like stimulation and like that dopamine fix and breaks and things like that. That became really difficult for me to, like stay in. Character.

And like, do this because it was full on imposter syndrome, because I couldn't, you know, So like even last year when I got put on disability, you know, I didn't know that my attorney was going to like, factor in my ADHD as well. But like, I'm so glad she did. But she advocated and she was like, you know, according to her psychological report, like with ADHD, like they require like frequent 15 minute breaks. So with the jobs that you're saying that she can do, is that going to be allowed?

And he's like, no. And she's like, okay, then you know, the need. And I was like, Dang, you go, girl, you know? But like, it's it's super real. So that's why I like I just I loved being self-employed because I get to work for myself. No one tells me what to do. I do it how to. And I don't have to choose one thing because even that alone, like, what are you going to be? What are you going to be when you grow up? What are you going to be?

And I'm like, There's so many things like, why do I have to choose one? You know, Why can't I, like, just do many things? let me let me ask you something. It's clear that you two love being around each other like I'm I'm research a research, you guys on your social media stuff and saw that you guys have you've tried a couple of joint ventures.

Yeah. What is the most embarrassing joint venture that you that you try and I mean like is there one is there something that's like, have you ever thought of a caper and like, this is what we're going to do and you look back on the matter like, What were you thinking? Mom, I know. Give me like a better example. Like, I don't know, but I'm like, such a person that's, like, no regards. Like. So you wouldn't be embarrassed. Right now because.

It's very hard for me to get embarrassed because, like, if anybody is going to embarrass anybody, I'm going to embarrass myself, you know, like, but then I'm going to do it with a smile on my face. We laugh about. So you're never. Even going to know that. I was embarrassed to try. So hard, though. We be a Walmart. This you got me good one day. And it was like the dollar tree. I was like. We were like walking down the aisle. And I was like, did you forget. Your. Hemorrhoid cream, Jolene?

You know, like, we'll, we'll just be so silly and. Then we get into the register and she like, I forgot what she handed me. It was like another cream or she goes with literally, I'm checking out and she goes, you forgot your cream for your vaginal yeast infection. You know, it's like, my cow loving doesn't go to Diana Corner. And it was That's a lot of it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My kids don't get it.

Yeah, they know. Yeah. Surprisingly they don't understand how my trying to embarrass them and make them feel awkward is how I show them. What is why mean the radio. On the Hispanic channel when I'm in line at school, you know, the you know. No, it's not. They're just like, yeah. Luckily my kids are home school so they don't have to deal with me in. Public that often. Yeah. My 13 year old, he was diagnosed with autism whenever he was three.

And if you're looking for someone to give you a true like God, he's brutally honest, like he is your guy. Like, it is amazing. I like I feed into that. I like I want that to flourish. I never want him to lose that like baldness. But he will straight out with me be like, You're embarrassing. But like, he says it. So, like, matter of fact, then I'm like, You poop at parties. And he's like, I don't even understand what you're trying to say right now. Like, she'll.

Be sitting on the couch and, like, minding his own business, and he literally is like, You're annoying me right now. It's not. My channel. And Brian, it is so funny, but he's like, so legit. Like we tell corny jokes in Brazil, we tell jokes all the time together, but he doesn't realize that we're like looking them up. And so, like, he'll make up his own joke and it's like, so great. And it's like, you know. My favorite one is about like, the hammer. Okay, So we were outside.

We were actually my mom's house sitting on her pool deck, and her and I are telling like, corny jokes back and forth to each other. And my son comes up and he's like, I have a joke for you guys. We were like, What? You know, like, what is it? And he's like, Knock, knock. And we're like, Who's there? And he goes, Hammer. We're like, Hammer Who? He goes, There's a guy with a hammer over there building a fence.

Because. There because there was. Literally a guy over there with a hammer fixing his bench. And we start laughing. And then he. Goes. Why is that funny really? Well, because it was a joke. But in his brain it was a joke, but it was just so literal because it was the truth. Like, yeah, it was so funny. He was like understanding the concept. And the next time I saw it, I was like, I'm. Just going to make up a joke on my head to see if he laughs.

And then she's like, Okay, is it like she made up a joke? He totally didn't laugh, not even like I. Am not. Funny. And then I go, I was like, Yeah. Where do you macaroni. That's being stirred in. The pot? And he's like, I don't know. And I was like. so good. And then he's like, cracking up. And I was. Like, Yeah, she's worried about it. And I'm like. How do I do it? Teach me anyways. But it reminds me of just funny. It was really funny because I thought. I don't get it.

I thought that was the very that was the point. She was just like, I just made it up all right. He thought it was like, hilarious Yeah. And he laughed. And I'm like. Yeah, I wish I could make it because it wasn't supposed to make sense. I just wanted to see if it was like, Yeah, you did. And sounds. Like. So he enjoys the non-sequitur. Yeah. What is what. Does not follow? That's a great word on Keystone like words. It's a logical fallacy. It's usually used in, like, forms of argument.

Okay. Like when you're like having debate, like. Yeah, a. Fallacy, like a medieval. Like, don't come at me with your fallacies. You very Shakespearean, you know? Yeah. Like, yeah, that's so. Yes, I love it. That is wonderful. I like learning new words. I didn't know. I mean, English. Exams, though. New words are great. I'm a big fan of words. Yeah, because they're just made up. But they are. Hard. I don't know. I can't wrap my mind around that right now. Don't you think that not.

Even the words like I learned with, like, homeschooling my kids last year that whenever Webster did his dictionary, he was actually taking all the English words, that he didn't like the way that they were used. And he, like, decided which ones he was going to change. And like, you know, they spoke color like color. And he was like, Nah, that doesn't make any sense. That's going to be color now, like.

And he just decided, like, I can't wrap my mind around why he decided to leave certain things, certain ways. Yeah, because, I mean, my daughter, we're talking about a word the other day and like, you know, you talk about like, weddings day one, February. Yeah, yeah. Sherbet Like why did he linen. Yeah. Why did he leave those words alone? Like, they don't make any sense. Like half of them. Don't like turned out. Or what And.

Anything that starts with to be like I'm out like or starts with P and doesn't say Yeah, wow. That was a joke that I said to her. And I was like, Why can't you hear that? A pterodactyl going to the bathroom? She's like, I was like, Because the silent Robin, she was like, That's good. She goes, I don't get it. And I said, Well, because pterodactyl starts with the pea and she's. Like, That was she looked at it and she was like, Why? It's like these hidden gems that. The universe just gives.

And I'm like, Is this like your thirties? Like, just learning that cucumbers are pickles? That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm more frustrated by things like that. I was like, I didn't know that I could have been making pickles this whole time. Yeah, for free. For the cost of a cucumber. For the. Sandwich. Yes. Vinegar. Yeah. So I absolutely love the visuals you guys have created for your podcast, but they're kind of misleading.

When I went to your podcast to listen the first time, I was a little bit smacked in the face. This one, it's pretty heavy. Yeah. So what? Like, can you give me like the vision behind your graphic design and what the vision for your show is and how those things come together? You know, like I just we. Took those pictures last year. We've always wanted to do awkward pictures. A is. You know, we were so heavily inspired by and I love Zach Galifianakis.

So like we were we had an opportunity and it just manifested itself in my friend is a photographer and she was like, I need you to come do awkward pictures for me. And I was like, Say no more. And I texted her and I was. Like, It's happening. You know? And so, like. We didn't. We didn't know what each other was wearing either. I was like, Don't tell me what you're wearing. my God. It was element of surprise. And we just showed up and it was so great.

We, like, videoed each other's reactions and it just went off. And so I actually was doing like little characters at first when I was creating it. And then I was going through my camera roll and I was like, my God, I forgot that we have these incredibly professionally done awkward photos and like. It just fit. And I just felt like a totally captures, like truly who we are as people.

And I just think that once people like click in, they'll really see that this is really those like they're having really vulnerable conversations and this is really authentic. And they're also moms and creators and visionaries and. Awkward. Awkward and ADHD and autistic because I think too, like with looks like people are so focused on looks and they think that like even like with autism or ADHD look similar in a way it doesn't. Or you don't look like and I'm like, what? Not look like, you know.

Like that's a very 1998. I hear a lot about my son quite frequently. Yeah. he doesn't look like he has autism. One's supposed to look like. Yeah Tell me. I mean, that's. I don't really think someone like the, you know, like primarily science with ASL or something like, you know, look like, you know, sign language. Like what? No, You know, it'll look. Like I can't hear. You. It's just to someone.

So I guess I just really wanted to capture like our personalities, like, more than anything, because, you know, we've been shunned, like, so much in our life. And I'm just like, No, there's so much to us. Yeah. We are real people who. Have. Experienced really hard things that are trying to figure out how to navigate through those. And we have stories to tell, things to share, things to talk about that people don't want to talk about the uncomfortableness while at the same time we use humor.

Yeah, we're silly, we're goofy, and we like we are just we're everything, you know, like in the best way possible. And so you want to just show yourself. But your personality, not the not the immediate first thing people usually see, and especially in our society, which is how beautiful. You. Look. they're so beautiful. You wanted to say we're here, This is us. Yeah. You know, it really does. You know, these sexualize the whole thing. Yeah. Really? Anyone?

It's like these people obviously have some some interesting characters. Yeah. You look at those photos like. Yeah, I think that. I think that there is and I think that they're like, they're really good pictures. So I'm just like, I love this. Yeah. So like, I, you know, immediately was taken with the whole thing. I was, Yeah. You know, and it was, had nothing to do with like, these beautiful women do this podcast and Yeah. Never had anything to do with that. So I think that's.

Really what I would say to be with that is just being seen for like who we are. And I can't control how the people, you know, see us or be us or whatever. But like ultimately my core, like I just want to show up as me. Like I don't want to like, have to filter any of that out. Like, this is who I am. And, you know, if I it's your cup of tea and I use that index, you know, keeps growing. We have many different you know, there might be times that you see me with braids.

Yeah. The times that you see me with purple hair. There might be times that you see me with multicolored hair, with no braids or, you know. Like, we just want to express ourselves in any way. I'm just going to be exactly who I am, and I'm going to do what I feel and I'm going to look how I want to look. Because if you have a problem with how I look, that says more about you than it does me. Because I understand perfectly. Fine. It's just projection. I'm fine with body hair.

I'm behind with, you know, like, all of these things. You're the one that's uncomfortable. So what about that makes you uncomfortable? Because it's not my problem. I will tell you, I'm not fine with body hair. Thank God I was born like I call myself a Brazilian hairless, even though I wasn't at all like I like. If you look at my arms. They're so young, man. I have a very little. Yeah. Yeah. I hate. Yes. Yeah. I'm usually. Bald. Yeah, I like to be clean shaven, mostly. Calm down. I just.

You think. Maybe. Maybe it is. I think it's like I talk about sincerity. Yeah, like armpit. My armpit hair. Like I got to shave it because, like, it feels like needles, you know? Yeah, I did let it grow. I'm so proud. Very proud of myself. I was so proud. But, like, then eventually it got too much. And so I actually shaved it in the other day like I had to, because they were like. You know, And. I think all my sensory things were just like, low key. So I'm just like, it's irritating.

Yeah. And not like, it's not like, obvious enough to really get this off of me. Right? Right. Yeah. I'm like, I know how pretend like I'm not having a sensory overload even though I'm inside. I'm dying right. Now. We just have we do have a. Conversation with, like, about socks, you know, different types of. Socks, because she was trying to help me for my sock collection. But it's not. Just your sock collection. You change your songs like a hundred times a day. Look here, honey boy. Question.

This is totally random, but there's a golfer. I can't remember who it was, but he talked about, like, one of the benefits of being sponsored by a clothing company is like, he's like, I get to on new socks every day. Like, does that sound like a dream to you or is that just me? It absolutely does. Like, have you seen the socks at Target in LA right now? Like. I'm like Harry Potter and. Like just Marvel socks. I just like the feeling inside. You.

Some like maybe that is like another like ticking the possibly autistic tree that you like that feels so good. I'm like. so good. And there are. Some things that. I can cut it. Off. The Tag. I think, you know, I have like tons of compression socks, like old lady compression talks, but they're cool. They got design. They really. Are right. Like I was supposed to have boom boxes on em. Yeah, like stripes Rainbow. I have like French bulldogs like that.

They are full on compression and that's like my security blanket. But I feel invincible whenever I want to. Thank your your statement really quick though. Like I do feel like I was showing up this way. Like on our podcast, who is like also giving like other women permission to show up as themselves because like, we're just big kids. You know, I'm saying and like, you know, women are so like, indoctrinated and there's so much internalized misogyny that like, occurs within women.

Like, I know that I've participated in that, too. And so really just like wanting to, like, lift that veil of like being like, no, like you can absolutely dress however you want to, ma'am. Like, you can whatever feels good for you, whatever makes you light up, do that. Like the majority of my wardrobe is from Goodwill. You know what? In the like, just do whatever it is that brings you joy. If you want to wear, you know, like orange earrings, like pineapples, whatever it is.

Like, just as long as it brings you joy, you know? And matching is not a real thing for you. Like Dollhouse are made to be worn. You don't have to match to be cute. Like I'm the queen of like mismatching all colors in pattern mixing. And like I, I love it because you can wear a red shirt with purple pants and blue shoes and be cute. Yeah. I used to do that with power clashing whenever I used to work in a restaurant and I would wear like a very patterned shirt with a different pattern tie.

Yeah, and I don't really accept that anymore. I'm like. my. God, it's a lot like since, like Spencer and since really, it was a lot like, so I don't know, like, I'm just, I'm, I'm re I'm reconsidering like, I haven't made a decision. I went either way, but it's like, I don't know, like I was very confident but I was like, this is it. And generally anything that I thought that about in the past, it was not. It was kind of. Like but it probably. Was. But it wasn't that somebody told you it wasn't.

And that's the thing that I learned, like so many things. And I. Was it in my head. Yeah. So that's. The point. Like because I would enjoy things. But the moment that somebody told me that it wasn't okay or that I looked wrong or like I remember, I will never forget it, I was like, I'm going to wear this outfit the first day of seventh grade. And my mom told me that I couldn't wear white pants because it was like after Labor Day. And I'm like. Why don't like, why are they not. Wearing white?

Yeah, it's like, I didn't understand, am I? Now, you told me not to use our minds, you know, and I just didn't understand. And so, like, things that, like, you know, just the shame of like, when you try to be who you are, like, and then you get told that it's wrong or your shoes don't match, and then it creates insecurities. And then again, that streaking happens. And so I tried really hard with my kids, like my youngest. I mean, she's she's like, she's a fire, you know, like, she's amazing.

But like, I mean, so she's like to like, she's just dressed herself, you know. Her leggings with tutus and, you know, Spiderman shirt, you know. Like two skirts on like the other day. She literally wanted her romper to be a skirt. And I was like, okay, we can do that. Maybe can do it. My mom's a seamstress. And I was like, She didn't want to wait, though, you know? So she just snip snip herself and has, you know, leggings. On a skirt on her romper.

That now a dress on top of that and she just goes in like, I just encourage it's like so much every day. I'm like, I love your fashion. I think you look amazing, you know? And I just did all that confidence in her to show up because, like if someone says something to you like I always them like it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. What matters most is what do you think?

Do you like it? Because you know, when people are always asking for, you know, when they've been like me, they feel so insecure. Well, what do you think? But the question is what? What do you think? Like, how do you feel? Here's a good example that my life is like my my friend group makes fun of me because I proposed to my wife wearing crocs. That is. Like you have charms. On them. Now harmful. So this was like we've been married. I mean, just did the math the other day. 13 years.

Okay, so I proposed to her 14 years ago. So this was way before there was such a thing as charms girls. This was before anybody really thought crocs were cool. Yeah, So I was out there on my own with this thing, and, like, then, you know, we meet this group of friends, love them to death. They're like, You proposed in crocs. I'll be like, Sure did. And now crocs are all the rage. Yeah, you started that. Scene, and I'm trying to take credit for it. They're like, No, you didn't. But maybe. I did.

But maybe never. No, but I like, I shrunk from that, you know? And this was not them. Yeah. But it's like I let go of the crocs because it was like I felt like they weren't. I don't know. I wasn't, like, rising to the occasion that I was supposed to be in or whatever. So I was like, I just. I let them go, and now I'm like, I should just if I love them, I should have just. Been. Loving them. Yeah. Breaking lately. I've got people back me out now.

I would prefer not to bring the trucks back with sunshine. And a pair of, like, butterfly shoes that I found at Goodwill I think just applies butterflies all over them. And like, I just. I don't care. Like, I really want to be just shoes. Yes. I don't have, but I want a pair. I'm obsessed that I don't have Heelys still. Like my kids all have to. Have them. My mom was too afraid I'd hurt myself. I was a very accident prone. Yeah, but, I mean, that's. Good idea. Then. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Even though I didn't break a bone until I was an adult. Yeah. That's even worse if you break. My wrists, it's free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So back to your friendship. Is there one thing that you can each tell me that the other person doesn't know? you know, I don't have. I can be, like, an interesting fact or like, some experience that, you know. I mean, I'm sure there is, because we do learn like new things we do together all the time. It's like it was. Like philosophy class or something.

It said you were in. And I was like. What? Yeah, I had to take philosophy in college. Yeah, but it was like something like super. I was like, my God, that's awesome. I didn't know you did that. No, I mean, we is a lot of cool. Yeah, it's probably something like that. let's see. It's like a cool experience you to, like. I don't know about. I don't know. The only thing.

I don't know why this was what I think of, And I don't know if you know this, but, like, whenever I was a kid, I went to French City for my birthday with a group of friends from school that weren't really my friends. They were more like my bullies. But wanted them to. Like, Yeah. And I poured water on this guy's head because he was bald and I got in trouble and I had sit out the entire like my birthday for another city and I ended up not even getting to do anything.

And I had to watch all my friends who weren't even really my friends enjoying my birthday. Who who instilled that punishment. My mom. On. Wow. So that's kind of actually a really traumatic experience. Yeah, I don't know why that. Was what. Came to my brain, but it was I was like a lot of birthdays as a kid being in. Trouble. Wow. Like my mom with, like, around me for my birthdays. And I think there was like two or three years that I was, like, grounded, like, genuinely wow.

Like, consecutively wow. She would let me drive that for Halloween and I would get excited. And then tell me about the only thing I could do is sit on my grandmother's porch and, you know, candy canes because my birthday is like three days before Halloween. So Halloween, my favorite holiday. Is. Soul. Crushing. Yeah, your birthday is like seven days after mine. So do you want to? I just grew. I'm a cusp, so, you know, Scorpio, Scorpio, Libra cusp. So are you, like, on that day?

Well, it's like, depending on which, like, charge you look at, like I move back and forth. But my youngest is a Libra, I'm a Scorpio. I definitely exhibit traits of both. Yeah. So I'm. Like, hardcore. Scorpio. Yeah. Except I'm not a jealous person. So that was one of the Scorpio traits that people always talk about. Unless someone called me her, their best friend. Yeah, I'm just kidding. I feel like that might be true. Yeah, that. you. You had a friend Lisa? Yeah, We sang all day.

Yes, but. It's somebody you. Can't tell me nothing about right now. Your best. She's my best. Friend. I think you were looking at jealousy. Wrong, Because this is. This is your personal life. Thinking about your your spouse or whatever is like, No, this is where your jealousy would be. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe yours. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, but not like, I don't know. I'm trying to think of something to may not know.

Now, I don't mind if people call her their best friend. But I think even that right there is someone that I believe in jealousy. It's like I. Think that's healthy jealousy. I think I think there's a healthy amount of saying you can you can say whatever you want. Yeah, because I know this. I know like. I've got this. I'm probably going to choose to kind of talk about this is who loves you, right? Good. Well, you know, first thing about this, you know, it's like, I see, believe me wondering.

Too, like these new connections, like I make and, like, she's, like, so excited to tell her. And I'm like, I wonder if she's secretly, like, plotting their revenge. You know, I get really excited. Yes. I'm like, I want to meet new people because I'm not good at meeting people. Yeah, Like, cause I'm literally, like, an introvert, an extrovert. Like, I don't just walk up to random people and start talking to them. But sometimes she does. I mean, it depends where, like, compliment.

So yeah, like, yeah, I like, I'll compliment people, but I'm not going to just start like full blown conversations. That's, that's more. Thought that you're putting out not an like trying to make a connection. Correct. Like but she'll call me and be like my gosh, I met this lady and I ended up going over to her house because I bought something from him and we talked for like 3 hours and I'm like in my brain. I'm like, How do you. Like, wow, Like, this is like a superpower.

Yeah. Like, I don't. Know. If you can't think of anything, like, you can think about it. Then we come back to you later. It's totally fine, because you just what you just brought up makes me think of a question I have, which is like, do you guys make space to allow other people into your, like, very. yeah. So. So do you have other friends who you like? I don't know that you guys all hang out together often.

You know, it's getting it's getting there because, you know, I was not in alignment, you know, in so this last year I had to really let go people in my life that weren't serving me anymore. And, well, more so just like that weren't aligned with the person that I'm becoming. And they were there for a reason. Let me let me ask you to clarify what you mean about when I talk about alignment. I talk about my alignment is who I really am with, who I present to the world.

Yeah. So I want to make sure that's, you know, talking about the same thing. Okay. Yes. Because they were just not they weren't relationships that I could take with me. And. I had to let that go of trying to take everyone me, you know, and I love you, but I have to now prioritize myself and choose me because I've always chose everyone else. And so my mind just went blank just like that. There goes. So we're talking about just making space for other people inside your friend. yes.

Okay. So now you know. Through. Being in alignment with who I am, like, it's crazy how natural relationships then start to flow. And that doesn't mean that you won't get challenged with relationships to see if you want to, like shrink again or people please, or, you know, whatever, because I've been tested for sure. And I'm like, you get to know, you get to know, you. Know, like really.

I'm. Trying to practice boundaries, but now we are really like making awesome connections and like, really cultivating, like, incredible connections with other women. And I think through storytelling and like, sharing, like that's a huge part of that is just like creating that space like, I have my friend leaves a meditation circle for like the new women and full moons and even this, like a couple of weeks ago, like I had my and, and there was like a new girl there.

And we just like, you know, had a really cool connection. And then she was another age, two years. She's like 39 and, and, and then we're like, getting started. And then this woman and her kid are like, walking and she's just, like, exuberant. And I was like, Hey. What are you all doing? And I was like, We're meditating. Come on in. You know, in like, now that's developed this really cool connection that I have as well. And so just like through storytelling and sharing and just like.

Putting herself out there. To be vulnerable because like, you never know who you'll meet. And I think, like, there's much fear that's implemented, especially as a kid or like when you get in abusive relationships and coercive controls involved, like you can't trust her. Like, I was always being told, like, I can't trust her, you know?

And so I learning that I can trust myself, I can trust my intuition and like, really paying attention to what that feels like in my body, you know, especially being like an imposter, which I feel like imposter really, Just like traumatized children that grow up to people. Please. You know, because, like, they tap in, you are really trying to be the emotional regulator for your caregivers or whoever you know is doing that. And so.

Like you're trained to read cases and read emotions without words even behaving. Right, you know, But you're you are trained. Just feel the emotional needs of the caregiver specifically. It happens in like if there's a narcissistic parent. So they put that responsibility on their child that you're responsible for my emotional well-being. So you have to emotionally support me and like all of that. So that's a huge responsibility. Yeah, well. Something about.

That. Yeah. And so that's really, you know, challenging to to heal from. But I think when you do and you really start to gain a spiritual connection with whatever it is universe or is God, whatever you want to call it and can tap into your resolve. And I believe it starts like, so that's what this feels like. I can now recognize these feelings in my body and I can notice it and like, let it be there without judgment and just become aware that I'm having this feeling or having this fight.

And then now what do I want to do with that? I'm just say I think that women's intuition is like the the most tangible and real superpower that exists. Like my wife. No, things that I'm just like, how So when she tells me, like, I got a bad feeling about this, I respect that. Like, yeah. Really, really strongly. And I feel the reason why it's not the same for men is because we're taught to separate ourselves from our emotions and how we feel so, so heavily.

Right now we have just completely worlds down. To have emotions. Yeah, and we're not supposed to like how I feel is not important. The task at hand is what I'm supposed to be dealing with are, you know what is my position or whatever else. It's not about how I feel. And whenever you start knowing how you feel, like your gut is a huge part of feeling. And that's what I love about you. Taylor is like podcast. Because like that alone, like you are creating spaces

to bridge that gap for men to be vulnerable. Yeah. And talk about your emotions and like that's huge in so like, you know, yeah, pass this up on that because. Age I my you know. Yeah it really is so in it should be normalized like I had had a conversation was kind of like one sided but with the situation that happened with my son and I was talking to one of the other parents and you know, it was kind of being like boys will be boys mentality.

And, you know, that is a very English comments, you know, and I kind of had to say like actually like, you know, boys can be sensitive, compassionate, kind, loving they can be affectionate, they can be respectful towards schools. You know, like these are all qualities that boys can be. So it's not limited to like, well, boys don't tell each other they love them or their hair looks nice. And I'm like, But actually they can, you know, in a way that should be normalized.

And so, you know, later like that is something that like we're both actively like working towards is like at some point, you know, helping to get on these like school boards and stuff where we are implementing that type of change, like helping with like redefining these systems within our education that aren't taught that because of like our children are around our educators just as much as they are us, like for literally the majority of the day.

And so, like these types of things need to be implemented in the school, like instilling confidence boundaries, like what is domestic violence, what is gaslighting look like? Because it's not just subjected to intimate partner relationships. It can happen in the workplace, it can happen in friendships. And so I think it's important for kids to recognize what these behaviors like so they can learn that, like, I'm Johnny is really not my friend, you know what I'm saying?

Because he does this and he's very passive aggressive. He talks to me and, you know, and when you don't. Know, you don't know. You know, and I know it's hard, like when you have a classroom full of like 30 kids. But I think, man, like if educators like were had just a minimal training and, you know, behaviors like this like or attachments for now what's that emotionally you look for body language and just really be able to help create a safer place for kids.

Because for a majority of the kids, that is their only place. So if you walk into a classroom and you're like. You're amazing. You know, and like, start giving them mantras and things to say, to take home with them and empower them if they're going home to a place that is where they're being disempowered. Know how, dudes? You don't know the. Impact that you're making. You know, what do they take in or not? Like, is that for them? But, you know, I feel like it's very impactful. You know.

The the whole public school thing, it's a lot. You know. We homeschool for a reason. And yes. I understand the need for people to send their kids to school. I totally get that. But I don't think that means that you give up on their socialization. Right. I think you should be like you were talking about and trying to actively affect what is happening to your kids in school and make sure that they're getting taught things that are important to their development as human beings, right?

Not as workers that are going to go certain to send them to the most. Don't get. Me started. I saw Ryan Walters on the news last night. And I know I'm. Lucky enough to not really need to care about that. I know. He says that he's going to change the laws in Oklahoma and bring God and prayer back into. The schools. And he is going to take out the parts of that make America look bad as well. That's like. But this is where you say you're talking about it at a political level.

Yes, that's important to recognize. We're going to get rid of indoctrination by indoctrinating. And make it. Something that we like better than. For white. America. great. Great. Here we go. Yeah. I don't love the narrative. That's yeah, that's the whole idea about. Like as white mothers raising black, that's another conversation because. That's the point.

We have to parent our children differently, you know, And like, they're not going to learn those things in school, you know, and especially like with my son, like the majority of his friends are white and he's autistic. And so like, I like recently, like he was being referred to as like monkey in like group chat and like, granted, they were friends. Yeah. And like, but he. Didn't know. I'm in and I'm hoping that they didn't know either, like, And. They did. They didn't. They didn't either.

And that's where, like again, grace and compassion comes in because you can teach and educate in a loving like, Hey, this is actually a racial slur and it's not okay to be referred to or call anyone that. But, you know. Parents might be having a fire. Yeah, generally that's where it comes from. But that's but. That's what's really hard is that, like some parents aren't going to be in a receiving space and no one ever wants to hear that. Narrative of boys will be boys. Right.

But she was talking about earlier. But like that, that's where that comes from is because, like, it is hard for parents to have to be told something about their children that is uncomfortable. Yeah. But it has to happen. And like, I think that as parents, this is where community happens because if you can have conversations and like communicate things lovingly with your children, like isn't that better for everybody? You know what I'm saying?

But there's some parents that aren't willing to do that and like, that's your prerogative, you know what I mean? And it's not really, though. But it's it's because. Affecting everybody. It is. Bringing you know. But you. Can't control that. You know, And that's. Hard. It really is like you can only do your part. And, you know, if you speak on it and you know, that's what it is, you know what I'm saying?

But this is why like school systems, I think, really need to have these types of conversations and bullying and, you know, because that's huge. You know, bullying alone is really huge. And so. Just we can. Talk about. That. I got a phone call about my baby to call me. You're crying. I'm sorry. Is your son's name Malachi? I have. It is. So whenever I before I met my wife, I had decided that I was going to name my son Ty Malachi, like I was. That's it.

That's what is going to happen. She's like, Nope. And so when we had our first son, I actually when we got our dog, he became Ty. Like, that was our first our first animal. And Malachi ended up never being a name that we used at all. So I'm really glad that somebody that I. Love, I felt differently than how it felt in the Bible. So engagements pronounced a lot and. Becky Yeah. Two years and some serious as it you know and then he has like the most playing.

Spaces. Yes absolutely. He is like the most. Acclaimed middle name So found a way. Straight back that way. Yeah. Yeah. But now he has the most challenging middle name. But I found a way to spell it, to make it difference. What's the low. James? James? okay. How did you spell James J. A Y and Z? Okay, that's. There's. There's a high possibility that usually when somebody takes a unique spelling, I'm going to be a little annoyed. I don't like that, but that's pretty cool.

I actually see that because I'm there. I'm a I, I have a I used to be a dancer. And so I like any dance competitions, anything like even though I don't participate, I love watching it. It's just such a beautiful art now. I feel like it's so underappreciated because like any form of dancing is just like it's just beautiful because you're telling the story with your body movements. But anyways. What kind of dance did you do? I did all kinds.

I, you know, I hip hop, ballet, tap, like I tried it all and I loved ballet. I just didn't like the rules that came with it. A lot of them, yes. My my legs were too big because I was also a gymnast. And so, you know, like all. The all your diary. To be so insane in order to keep up with being a gymnast and a ballet person. Correct. Like they're two completely different worlds. And so I ended up sticking with the ballet for a little bit longer until I quit doing that and doing cheer, you know.

But anyways, but there was a dancer that I seen that he did a contemporary piece. And. I mean, it just brought me to tears because was just so beautiful. And his name was James and that's how it was spelled. And so I never got that out of my head, like and so then whenever I had Son, I knew it was going to be, you know, Malachi James. But then it just like popped in my brain like this spelling. And I'm like, I love that. And so that's kind of, you know, how I went with that.

But yeah, but now when I was going to say, when is whenever he has been like fourth grade, I got a phone call from his teacher that said that he participated in making fun of this little girl who was also mixed in they were calling her a pothead and a monster, and they made her cry. And so I said, well, we're not going to do that. We're not going to join in on the bullying. But what we are going to do is we're going to stand up for the people who being bullied.

So let's try to if we're going to use our voice, let's try to use it in that manner. So I literally he had to dress like head to toe in a suit, bow tie, vest, jacket, suspenders, shoes, like I went to Burlington, got him all the, you know, the works. And then he had to spend his own money and buy her flowers and then stand up in front of his entire class and apologize to her and then present her with these flowers. That's a lot. Yes. I have mixed feelings. Me honest with. You. He he enjoyed it.

He loved. It. So that's yeah. He. Was. He was great. And then, you know, now what's funny is they are actually going to school together again and they're friends, you know, because, I mean, they became friends after that. But I did take it a step further, which is where I can take accountability for. Him. Because of the fact that he was smiling. And I said, You think this is funny?

And then I called out everyone in the class and I was like, every single one of you guys have something that can be made fun of. Like And I looked at my wife and I said, You wouldn't like it if I made fun of you for being clumsy, you know, And like, and then, you know, I, you know, said similar things, but I'm like, So why don't we just be nice to each other? But I was so, like, aggressive or, like, abrupt, whatever verbiage. BRASH Yes, I love that word. Yeah.

And that at that point, Malachi then became embarrassed and shamed and started to cry. And he was like snot crying. And then because I in that in those moments, it's like, now my points across, I literally embarrassed him and I took my phone out and I just took a picture of him right there in front of all of his friends, like he's not crying. And then after that, I felt bad. I was like, That's too, you know? So then I had to take accountability for that.

But I was I can say that I have mixed emotions about how I handled that. I am. But Malachi now no longer, like, participates in like being a bully. Yeah. You know, like he after that, like the next year, I was getting phone calls, like there was this kid, Malik, who's not in trouble, but I feel like. Like, you know, there was this kid and this group of kids was, like, picking on him. And Malachi stepped in and, you know, like he was taking up for them and, you know, bah bah bah bah bah.

And they ended up getting in a tussle. And, you know, tussle is a funny way. But anyways, you know, until like and he so compassionate and he's so he has such like a large heart but like I, I knew that like whipping him was like going to like cause I'm like one. Not only did you make a person cry, which made a little girl cry who is very similar to you, she has the same struggles. But you do, you know, you're.

But that's also what we were taught, is that, like, if if a child does something and they're, you know, vice violent towards someone, then it's our natural reaction to then become violent with them or as a disciplinary action. Which makes little or no. Sense. Now it. Does and it's more your being an authoritarian and you're trying to gain power and control and they're. Reinforcing violence as a as a solution. You know? Yes. And then the primary source of connection is then fear from the parents.

So when parents talk about, you know, like, well, my child respects me, you know, they fear you, there's a difference if a child respects you when they have a secure attachment with you, like that's just assault. And that's that's where my my initial, you know, pushback was, is that the shame factor is also a very strong tenet of how I was is, you know, being embarrassed was a way of punishment.

Yeah. Wasn't the physical violence, it was going to embarrass you in front of your friends or whatever? And that's something that like when I talk about, I think leadership, one of the main things like one of the focuses praise in public life, feedback in private, and I'm going to say punishment in private, feedback in private. Yeah, I think that's. That's something that, you know, I try to do with my own children.

And of course, once again, these are all theories that I'm I'm trying to apply to my life. Yeah, not perfect. Yeah, but. I don't think that I would have felt right. You know. Saying that in front of a whole class. But I like him. Having him apologize, I think is something that was totally like all of it, I think is good, except for the whole it being such a public thing. Yeah. Yes. And Then especially like where you started to feel bad, I'm like, that breaks my heart.

Yeah. And like, and that's one thing I can say about me and my kids is because I, you know, I was parenting how I was parenting. And then I started coming into awareness of like, this is not okay. It didn't do any good for me. So is it going to do any good for them? And so now, like I love that I've created such as face with my children, that, you know, they can come to me.

Like we were actually talking about this the other day, you know, like my youngest can randomly come up to me and he'll be like, Mom, do you remember that time whenever I was free that you did that? And then I'm like, Yeah, I do. And he was like, That really hurt my feelings. And I'm like, You know what? Like, yeah, I'm sure that it did, you know, like that those feelings are completely valid. And then it gives me the opportunity to apologize and take accountability.

For. The things that I did that I, you know. And not saying it, but, you know, Yeah. Cause there's so many times like, you know, like with my parents, like, it would be like, you know, you know, if, if you wouldn't have done this, I wouldn't. Have done this. I'm sorry, but you acted this right. That's where your child learns that it is my responsibility to manage my parents emotions.

Yeah. So if I wouldn't have had emotions, if I wouldn't have had me than my parent when had done this, you know, in even in public, like kids are shamed to not not perform or have emotions in public, like you can't do anything in public. So then they just learn to shut down altogether, like and imagine like being in it all.

Like I've been in public places where I just received really bad news and immediately, like flushed with tears or something and imagine someone coming up to you and saying, Don't you cry, you know? And it's like, that's wild, you know, to then do that to a child. Whose. Brain is still developing and these important, you know, reactions or responses that we're giving them is what is going to develop into their adulthood and how they're going to function in their relationships. Yeah.

And it doesn't always stem from childhood, can have secure relationships and attachments in childhood and then have a traumatic experience in adulthood that then produces not as well. It's not always just childhood. But. That's something I'm, you know, dealing with currently as a parent is that when we were young and didn't know better as parents, we were like, It's bad emotion squashing it. Yeah, like, you know, we weren't punitive, but it was like, stop crying. Yeah, like, stop wailing.

Like, you know, it was so much about, you know, And also the the understood level of ADHD in both of us was like, this is overwhelming over here. It's like so, so overstimulated. So it's like, just shut. Up. Yeah. And now having to deal with the fact that like, I, like my oldest daughter is amazing person, but I can't get her to talk to me sometimes because I told her to shut up for so long and like that. And it makes me cry right now.

It's so hard. Yeah. Like I know it's never too late to start being a better parent, but I can also see the effects of the things that I did when I was younger. So can I ask you a question? Yeah, absolutely. So, like doing that with your oldest daughter, have you ever sat down and tried to have a hard conversation with her of, Look, I know that there were things that happened whenever you were younger than I did. And I just want you to know that I am sorry for that in how you feel right now.

Those feelings are valid, and. I'm pretty sure we've had a conversation very similar and she's and it has gotten better. Yeah but. It's I mean there were I can say eight solid years of me having really poor reactions to her. Emotions. Yeah, that was me. And that's, you know, and. So I'm. Trying to reason with my oldest rational. Safety has to be rebuilt.

My oldest is he's very you know, he keeps it, you know, here, you know, like even asking him about maybe going to therapy and I'm he's like, I don't want to go to therapy. So then I was like, well, you know, what makes you feel like you don't want to go, you know, like just trying to see what I can. And he's like, because we're talking about feelings and I don't want to talk about my feelings. Yeah. And it's like, you know, I can take responsibility for some of that.

I take responsibility for almost all. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like, because it's like, you know, I always got told, like, if you cry, I'm going to give you something to cry about. Yeah, I said that. Yeah. And I. And it was a lie because we never, I never spanked her. But yeah, I still said it like that taste. In my mouth. Yeah. And it's my to say that that is. Yeah.

You know, because that was me, you know, and like I literally and so then I mean I remember getting complimented on how well-behaved my kids were in public. Yeah. And I would take so much pride in that. But really all it was is they were just afraid to do anything at all other than just sit there and stay quiet because, you know, if they were going to get yelled at or, you know, they were going to have to go sit in the corner or, you know, like and I just I handled things so poorly like.

You just because you. It was just I'm here. And that's where my passion comes in. It's like you can take accountability, but understanding like the generational component that comes a lot of like I was literally mirroring the behaviors that were demonstrated to. Me more because, you know, then it's like, you know, well, I loved my kids and. You, you know, find you the right. Way to say that. Now. It's like I mean, you're kind of. Bending your ego that. I'm in therapy, right?

Actively, which there's nothing wrong with therapy. I think everybody should go right. And whether they feel like they've had any kind of traumatic experience. And I just go to. Just to. Just to chat, like because why not? And well, you know, what I really hate at this point is people who say, well, at least I'm beating my kids. It's like, yes, that's the bare minimum. Yeah, this was what we know now. To me, that's the bare minimum of bringing them into this world is like, don't don't be right.

Yeah, please don't write. Psychological abuse is way worse. Yeah, it's it's so bad and it's so long lasting and maybe take it upon yourself to, like, do the best that you can. Like, it was not their choice to be brought into this world. So it's your responsibility to do the best at that. Not just good enough. Do better. Yeah. Like when you start doing great, do better. And have them. Like they're human. Is absolutely. Like, absolutely. You don't know everything.

Like, I was not allowed to ask why. Right? That was a big curiosity. I mean, I would get popped in the mouth if I would be like. Why? You know, And it was it because I was trying to be defiant or disobedient? It was because I genuinely just wanted to understand how that answer came about. And then I would get met with Don't ask me why, because I said so. That's why. And so then it's like. I think it was like an inferiority complex to you because I think most adults truly didn't know why.

Yeah. Because that's what my mom and dad taught me. So you to want. To reach. Out and so I think it became aware of like an embarrassing thing of like, I really don't know why. So I was like, now, like if my kids asked questions, you know, like Phenix is, why. Why, why? And I'm like, keep asking why. I like that strange man. You know, like, I mean, it gets overstimulating. But I for I like, I don't know, I feel like Kevin Hart, you know, and I was like daughter last nine days. I'm like. I don't.

I don't know why cheese was made like this or, you know, what I hear could be so great. And, and I'm like, but let's find out. Yeah, that's a great question. I would love to look that up with you. You know, for me, it's personally easier to answer the questions. Yeah. Than to have them continually curious or like, it's like it's going to keep coming up until. Yeah, it's like they're curious for a reason. Right. In some way. But just to answer it, right? Yeah. Well, I can't. Do it right.

And so that's. Why I'm like, I'm like. If we get. Help, we're going. To Google it. And found something. I was grateful for my dad for because, you know, my dad was the passive parent and my mother was the disciplinarian, you know, all of that. But I would ask my dad anything and he would have an answer wasn't the correct answer.

And when I was that, it was not, yes, I would but whether he'd be so confident in, you know, explaining to me why the sky is blue and how it's like food dye, you know, people like putting clouds in like, but, you know, he would just come up with these off the wall because he really didn't know. But he was going to give me an explanation, you know? But he would be so confident in his answer that. I'm like, wow, Really? So for water, you know, at what point did.

You realize that he was lying And he was telling is. Whenever. I would go to school and tell my teacher or, you know. And then. You know, that's. A lie. Yeah. And that's like, well, no, actually, you you know, this guy. Is, though, because it's a reflection of the water. You know? Yeah. So it does. Me. Remember. And I'm like, So then I called and I'm like, Dad, my teacher would say, My teacher said that this is why the sky is blue. And he goes, Well, that could very well be it.

Yeah. B y you know, And then I'm like. Okay, cool. You know, I mean, yeah, it was just, you know, like, so he, he would always like, allow me to ask questions that I could not. So that brings me to an interesting thing. Like, I know that honesty is really important to me now, but I know that whatever comes like autism spectrum honesty can take a different look. It can go to a different extreme. Like sometimes it's taken very literal and very strictly. And what does that look like for you?

Like, is that true? I mean, do you feel like that affect affects your relationship any way to whenever you're not truthful about something to each other? Like, does that feel especially difficult because of the relationship between autism and honestly? I think that's hard because, like, that's something that I'm I'm still healing and having to regain trust with myself because I was taught not to trust myself for so long and like the people around me were dishonest.

So like, and I wasn't being honest with myself because I was told to shrink, you know, and you can't be that. And so telling like that, that's a really good question. And a big time that I can remember when I was. How do you have this the other day when the Brooms drive through and we were talking. About.

And it was kind of like whenever after we went through a period of not talking and then we were coming back together in, you know, like we were like we were okay, but like the subject of, like moving in together and all of that was still like a very, like, sensitive subject for me, right? M And you were talking about us, like living together or whatever.

And I made a comment about like, what happens if you find somebody else and you're like, I don't want to anybody else and blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And then I was just kind of sitting there like, okay, you know, because at that moment, like, I was still. Like. That man. Yeah, I am. But then, like, it was a few minutes later, you were like, I have to be honest. And I was like, the right way. And you were like, I can't say that I'm never going to find somebody, you know?

And you're like, If I might like, you know, I'm that could happen, you know? And, you know, I would love to be able to have that of, you know, connection and what And like you were able to go friend Yeah. I'm like, go keep telling me what you thought I wanted. Yeah. You're to be completely, like, honest and like, you know, and I just remember, like, commending you. Yeah. For that. Because I was like, That is what I knew. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And so, like, in that moment, you were no longer like just trying to appease the person you were talking to. You were being true. Your whole life. Now, like, I appreciate, I mean, I've always appreciated honesty, but because I am, like, hypersensitive, that's really hard for me because I would always, like, take, like, honesty as, like something wrong with me or like, I would internalize and, you know, just washes of shame, you know, just come over.

And so I really had to like, release that. And I really be have gratitude for like honesty and like having these honest conversations because like, I could be honest about many different things, like, and more of it was like injustices that I would see because I was very passionate about those things, like, you know, being an activist in that way or whatever, or advocating, you know, for injustices.

But like when it would come to like very deep personal things, it's like I wanted to, like, avoid that, you know what I mean? Because that meant like, I had to, like, actually, like, acknowledge that there was something wrong. Yeah. You know. Do you think that that you talked about pathological avoidance. Before? Yeah. Do you think the people pleasing is more connected to the pathological avoidance or to the the shrinking from trauma, or is it both?

I think it's probably a combination of both, but probably more from insecure attachments or like anxious attachments because like you get that from having kind of like a hot and cold relationship with your caregiver or like they may be like loving you one minute, but then they might withhold affection from you if they're angry or your needs aren't getting met. And so, you know, then that develops as an anxious attachment because you don't know what to expect.

So then you learn as a child that, well, if I do these things for mom or for dad, that makes them happy. So I just want to make them happy. So then I learn to self abandon and not have needs. Because now I've learned that if I have needs, it's going to be met with, why can't you buy your own tampons? Yeah, I love them. And you know what I mean? I'm sorry. Like, I didn't know I was going to believe. You know, but like, you know, things like that.

So I do think it has a lot to do with the attachments that are created at that age that developed because I learned very early on that people please man like I had to be on my P's and Q's at all times. And then in friendships, I just wanted to be like, it's like I just wanted people to see me. And so if that meant self abandoning, you know, whatever I needed to do, but it was really hard for me to keep secrets, you know? So then I became the tattletale.

And especially like if it was friends that were doing things to, like, put each other in harm's way, that was really difficult because I was trying to do the right thing. But then the right thing was met with shame. And then I was like, exiled from the group, you know, And now you're the tattletale. And, you know, we can't tell you anything. And it's like you're like making each other pass out on recess, like. You know, I. Remember. You know, and sometimes. I remember.

That fear things, man. I'm like, That was not right. You know. I ask because, like, I went to a long period of lying. As soon as like, as soon as my wife would, like, call me out on something, I'd say like, she's like, Did you just like at the grocery? I'm like, No, like, like y to her face because I wanted her to not be upset. Yeah. And it's something that could have been a really small deal if I'd just been like, Yeah, I really wasn't even paying attention to her. Like, I just, you know.

I'm like, Yeah. I get my attention grabbed. Really? Honestly. Yeah. But that was never a conversation I was willing to have because I'm like, What if what if she gets upset? And then what if she gets really upset and then she leaves me and like, you know, and that took me a long time to.

It's just weird because I never considered myself be a people pleaser, but I masked my behavior to try to fit in all the time I live, to try to keep people from, you know, being upset at me is like, yeah, I well, the people. Yeah. interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm learning a lot of myself. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's rewarding though. And this is really great that I get to like, I've, I've really tried to, even though like, it's been such hard work like and so I just gritty and ugly and messy.

I'm really excited like at the same time, like to get curious about myself and like learning things about myself. Like there's so many things that like, I forgot about that I enjoy or things I like to collect or like whatever it is, like little knickknacks and stuff and like, I'm like, How exciting is it to just really get to know you? Yeah, You know. At this phase and just be excited of like, what's to come instead of like everyone, like dreads, old age and all this stuff.

And I'm like, I'm so excited. I'm amazing. I am really. I want gray hair is not coming fast enough. Are you sure about that? Because you just said mid thirties. I know. I emphasize that. Hard. Yeah. No, I was genuinely just joking because like I'm not afraid to like be old. And. I'm here for it. It's going to happen. I do. I talk about it all the time, wanting gray hair in. Your skin bags, you know. And your skin. You're looking forward to the skin bags like I am about being happy

the age I am right now. Yeah. Like I don't want to, like, be younger. And I wish I had my younger body that I didn't take enough care of then. So I felt better now. Yeah, but outside of that, it's like I don't wish for the time whenever I was so immature and I was so, so brash and so, like, made so many bad decisions. Yeah, but I also want to take my. And enjoy the process. Of being present. Yeah. Like I'm also. A real beautiful thing.

Yeah, but I kind of want to go back to what we were talking about because I was going say, like whenever I was a child I like, I like. I was talking about as an adult, but also. As a child, like. As an adult, like I have. I mean, I really just kind of say, you know what? I think of it like I was a child, that I did. That. Because I wanted to not get in trouble. Yeah. If I found there was any kind of chance that I was going to get out of trouble,

I was going to lie. Yeah. Even if I knew that my mom knew if I could just get her to believe me, you know? But, I mean, I'm. And then she would always make the comment like, you know, if you would have just told the truth. You wouldn't be in as much trouble. But either way, I was going to be in trouble, you know? So. Like, if I knew that I could get out of in any kind of inkling. But she never believed me, you know?

And then I was a liar, you know, like she looked me in my face like, you're such a liar. And then I would have to brush my teeth with soap. See? And I think that's really that's really hard. Like with kids, like having to, like, being so mindful of, like, what you say. It could be something as simple as, like, my daughter was like, at a friend's house and I was like, they were like, twisting one of the kid's hairs in my she was like dipping her chips into water and she's like, It's so good.

And like, one of the kids was like, You're so gross, Phenix, You're nasty. And I was like, No. I said, She's not nasty. But you may think the act that she's doing is nasty because there's a difference in like, I wanted to point that out in front of her, too, because, like, women, kids in general just get told that directly all the time. You're gross, Your Majesty. You're an ass. And like, if you if a kid makes a mess, you're so messy instead of saying, my God, you made a mess that stinks.

Let's clean it up. You know, mean, instead of. Like before finding. Them by the actions. Of the. Man that gets so internalized. Because I, I now have OCD because of, like, being told that I was all of these things. I was gross, I was nasty, I was messy. And then, like, having to, like, constantly, like everything has to be cleaned a certain way, dusted a certain way with my mom because like one of if not both my parents are neurodivergent they don't know if you know. But my. Mom's diagnosed.

Now, actually. Yes, for sure. But yeah, we don't talk publicly. It doesn't. Maybe I get it. But yeah, just making sure that like being mindful in the language that you're using. If I've been guilty of that and I kind of catch myself acting like it's the act, you know, and not like having to label it even that. Yeah, Like my son recently did a thing where he microwave refried beans and put jelly on it right here with him. And I was like, That is disgusting.

And I'm, I'm like trying to reframe that and myself was. Like, that is not for me. Go Yeah, you do you. Feel like I'm trying to reframe that stuff because I for one, I think that my middle daughter is going be like some sort of like insane chef when she grows up because she puts together the most random combinations. And sometimes it's genius. Yes. And sometimes it's. Not for me. At all. Yeah, but, you know, like, I want to encourage that creativity and saying stuff like, that's disgusting and.

Exploring. Is going to it's going to it's going to hinder that. Yeah. And it's so, I mean, being a parent is a lot of responsibility, you know? Yeah. You can never know how much weight a certain word that you say is going to carry. So you just have to try to be careful and, you know, also be self-aware and observe whenever things, as you say, do take effect from trying to, you know, make adjustments and have time. That's what I heard from modern family last night. I love that.

That's the thing that. You learned, that you're you're creating secure attachments with your children when they feel safe enough to explore, know, and do those things like a sure sign of like my kids, they'll say to themselves around me, they feel safe to try new things. Like, those are all signs of like creating secure attachments. Yeah. Yeah. My yeah, more. But it's my kid. I swear he's going to be a chef because he's all about like he'll make it, especially if it's mac and cheese involves.

my God, Anything. That's and anything. I call him the mac and cheese. Yes, sure. He will try any. He had a mac and cheese. He doesn't like it. He will tell you that it's disgusting. Just not work. Yeah. No, no. I had a friend one time that was so excited talking about, I made this mac and cheese, and I really went right in to try it. And so I tell him, you know, I'm like, okay, like, you know, something's going to bring over some I can choose.

Then he was like, Okay. And he takes the bar right across this thing and he goes, That is the worst cheese I have ever tasted. So then I tasted and I'm. Like, pretty good. Yeah, there was garlic that was pretty, there was all these extra and yeah, that for him it's like too much this is mac and cheese but it's not necessary. He has to add this. You're right too far. Away from the. Traditional mac. And cheese. But he did make a mac and cheese pizza all by himself.

Went to the store and got the ingredients, like, yeah, you know, it was just the box of, like, elbow noodles. And then you got like, you know, all the stuff made the dough from scratch. I like this kid. He hated it, but. He tried it. And the fact that he's very, like food, sensory, like. Yeah, has definitely a texture, kid. Anytime he tells me he wants to try something, like whenever he wanted to make Cheeto puffs sushi rolls, it had avocado and Cheeto press on the inside.

I'm like, I will go where you take you and get you whatever. Got one. Go. He did not like it. You know, there's there's. There's a crunch element there There's you know. Yeah I. Think it was the avocado for him though. Yeah. Too much so yeah he he's not an avocado person and we did go to a restaurant once and he wanted to order guacamole and he was like he's ordering like I'm like, you know, because I'm like, he's trying something new. And so he course hated it.

But, you know, I like, I encourage I'm like, as crazy as it might sound to me, if you want to try something new because he will eat mac and cheese, breakfast, lunch and dinner. All right. We'll bring you back to your podcast. Yes, I know, But every tangent that we've had, I think, has beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to ask, like, I know with my ADHD, there are things that start to interest me and it feels like my whole entire world revolves around.

But then suddenly I can just be like, I can, I could not care about this any and I'd be okay. Yeah. Do you do you fear that you might feel that way about podcasting? I actually, at this point in time, no, because I feel like I, I feel that I know that this is where, like, Spirit is leading me. Like right now it's.

And so using my voice, like, has always been like my catalyst, but I was using in different ways because I'm always saying and last year, you know, there were some like messages that came to me and like, you know, you've got to use your voice, but it's not in the ways that you're. Used. To using it. Like you're really going to have to start stepping into your personal power and being vocal.

So like to circle back to your honesty, being away, that is where I am really learning to own that and have to step into my personal power. You know, of. Being vulnerable with myself and saying, Wait, no, I actually have things to say after I've been silenced for decades and shrink myself because I want it to be more palatable for people.

And now I actually do have a lot of shit to say, and I want to say it and I want to be unfiltered because you don't get to have an opinion on my lived experience is, you know, saying. And so and I really like shrink myself for so long doing that. So when it comes to honesty now I'm really trying to just show up and like fully be honest. Yeah. And be just raw and unfiltered and not like dance around or overexplain or, you know, just not like, be direct. This is what it is. This is what happened.

And like, this is my lived experience and, you know, just really be using my voice in that way because I feel like with our podcast, it's going to be such a catalyst in open Doors to be someone else's survival guide. Like in so many ways that other women's stories were for me and what gave me the courage to leave my relationship. Now. Because I literally thought I was alone. And and so I joined like these like narcissistic support groups and stuff online. And then they were like.

I was like, Holy crap. Like that literally just happened to me last week, you know? And so, like, I started feeling like I belong somewhere and I was heard and validated in like a group of freaking strangers. And I was like, So if I'm feeling like this and they're feeling like this, imagine how many other people are also experiencing and this experiencing this. So imagine having a space that we can provide for other people to feel heard and seen and validated in their truths.

You And so that's your podcasting? Why? I guess so. Yeah. Yeah, because I listen, I can't speak for what the future holds, but know that in this moment, this is what we're supposed to be doing. Yeah. Like I have no ifs, ands or buts. And we've been talking it for a long time about doing a podcast because of the fact that we have so much to say, but it never really happened. But the last three years when we really. Started talking. Did you like reserve the name of your podcast like two years ago?

No, no, no. There was something. I saw when I really made. It up in an. I was looking for something and it said like last for us two years ago. And I was like, What? Like I wonder why they started two years ago then? So. I originally had a podcast I had started a couple of years ago. And what's crazy is I started this podcast whenever the first time I came back into my relationship and I was like, We're healing and we're healing our relationship.

And I was like projecting all of these like, you. Can. Heal from domestic. Violence too, you know? Like, that's not what I was saying, but I was really giving that false narrative. And I'm like, Look at what we're doing, you know? And I wasn't being honest with myself, but I was projecting so outwardly, like everything was fine, Everything was okay. And, you know, within a month that I can act like it wasn't it, you know, But I had to keep that up.

But I was so committed at that point to my own healing journey because I had already started going to therapy that I was really like actively trying to heal in a space where I was being hurt and broken and I created that. I guess that was like a way for me to talk about things and give other people hope. Meanwhile, like I was still trapped in I am thing. So it was a really weird place to be in. Did you get rid of that? Like did you delete it or. So I did.

I was like, you know, I like I don't want to have to like, create like another one. And I was like, I really would just like to utilize what I've already built and we can just change the name and things like that because I never planned to have like an individual podcast again. This was something that now at this point I just saw us doing it together and I was like, So let me just take these spaces that I've already created.

And instead of letting them like go to waste or delete them, I will just rename them. We can switch everything over to Marvelous Ms.. Like my goals. And are there any followers or anything left over from another podcast? I'm sure there were. Something I never I that was. Like, Yeah, yeah, I you know, I'm a, I'm a nerd about the numbers. I check my stuff way too often. Yeah, I so that's that's a question just out of minor done Yeah.

Curious as to whether you got any feedback from it somebody who followed before like hey I'm feel like this product is much rather than what I got before to have it be interesting to hear. Yeah I'm not sure. I think everybody now is just like, you know, so I'm just anxious for us to just kind of get our foot in the door. And, you know, I just think that even if one person here that we're making difference, you know. So I was going to ask you, what is your measure of success for your podcast?

my God. So to frame it properly, my of success was originally, if I can help one person. Yeah, Then. I got some feedback telling me that a couple of people had heard me and it helped. So that was like, okay, well I've done that already. So now my goal is to help as many people as possible. But I also want to be savvy enough to be able to position myself as an authority and authenticity to re retire my wife back into being a full time stay at home mom if she wants to do that.

Yeah, right now she's got a virtual assistant business that is, you know, it's not like super taxing on her, but she would like it to not have to. Work, right? I'd love to. Be able to give it. I love providing for my family. Yeah. So that's my goal. Yeah. What is like what's your success metric Like, what does it look like when you're successful in this business?

I mean, I do feel like that that's kind of a loaded question, mainly because I really am just trying to about like now am, because I know if I hyper fixate too much on like what things could look like, then that's whenever I'm going to go down the rabbit hole of like all the things that could go wrong and, you know, then start doubting myself and all of that. But, I mean, I think that being financially successful. Is the first thought that. Yeah, like is go yeah.

Ours like yes, we want to help people, we want share our stories. We want to, you know, create a community. But we would also like to be able to be, you know. Just having that energetic exchange. You know for. Once. I'd like to now value myself and know that I'm worthy of this reciprocation and I'm worthy of being paid for what I do.

Yeah. That's been really difficult for me because I would underpay myself for, you know, doing hair or whatever would be because I would always be like, but this person's going through this or like, whatever it is. Like, you know, you can help within your means and when you can. But at the end of the day, like people are paying you for a service, right? You have like spent our times, money, you know, whatever it is. And so they are paying you for a service and you have to value yourself

within that. And so this is also our time. This is equipment, you know, things like that. And what we have to say is really important. And so I think I just want for us to get on bigger platforms and just have like gets to be really cool interviews with people, have amazing people on our podcast to give them platforms and just really build bridges. Man, Like you know, where we just have this awesome community of people, you know, and then just continue to open doors.

Like hopefully you know, at some point talk to like legislators. They are. They are. Remain evangelists over here. Yeah yeah sponsorships. Yeah but we're this becomes like an income where we can just truly just because we have other things that we're a part of like earthly mission of helping to heal like Mother Earth Chopra system and you know, things like that.

And so we really want to have like the means to be able to travel and do that work and create healing other spaces and have like, you know, like healing retreats event, you know, like me as like a Reiki healer. Like that's something that has been so profound in my life. It helped me heal so much childhood trauma. You know? And so I just want to utilize the gifts that I've been given and do what I can. You know, just to give you a little bit of, you know, unsolicited advice. I love it.

Don't be too afraid of looking into the long term, because some of the things that I found research in long term actually made me really hopeful because 60% of podcasts don't make it past the third episode. And 90% only for news or produce less than three episodes. And then after that, 90% produce less than 20 episodes of that remaining amount. So just as soon as you get past that first 20 episodes, you're in the top 1% of podcast. Wow. Like just by attrition.

Yeah. So it's, it's the perfect example of just keep going. Yeah, yeah. Just keep going. And we literally like, I mean, like I said, I have no plans of not because I have a lot to say. Yeah yeah. And I have lived a long life in my 35 years of living almost 36 and have a lot that I want to talk about. Now so much. That I even I was like. You were talking about. Being. You know, neurodivergent and being a parent. Like, that's a whole conversation.

And I'm so to have like just being honest about like how raising neurodivergent children to and being neurodivergent is overstimulating, is. How like in a lot of lives it's. A lot. And when you're having, when you're also like having to read it yourself and they parent your children with these same tools that you're trying to like learn that is really it's you have to practice, practice, practice in like you're going to fail I think it's inevitable, you know what I'm saying?

And like when you can recognize that, like admit it, acknowledge it, like take accountability your best muscles, do it again, you know? But like, it's so challenging and like, I know like I had severe postpartum depression. I didn't even know it because I just I had to keep going because I had four children that were depending on me. I had a spouse that was an absent father and an abusive person in the home. And I couldn't. Anything, you know.

And I couldn't ask for anything like and I felt like a bother if I asked for help, you know, And that's how we were all need to fill in the home. And so, like, having to do that alone was like really, really challenging. And then living a life of chronic pain and having like multiple and like, all of this stuff on top of that, like who? No one was there for me during that time. So that was like, I didn't have a choice, you know, but to keep going because I had littles that depended on me.

Yeah. You know, And so I just think talking about those hurdles is really important. You know. There's so many things that I think as parents, like we're just so afraid to say the wrong thing. I know I have been busy. We get tired, you know, I get shamed and I, I don't want to have to feel like that anymore because I feel like that's such a prison, you know?

And I just I want to release that because it's very helpful to just have these honest conversations and be vulnerable about things that are hard. You know, like they're just. Hard and like to share that with someone and like, have someone validate that and say like, shit, I know how I feel, man. Like, that's rough, you know? And just so much love and belonging that gets created as a result of that, you know? And to me. Like, that's. Intimacy, man.

Like just really getting to, like, connect with someone on that level or just someone to say, I see you. Yeah, I hear you. You know. Are there any realities about, like, being on the other side of Lost your first couple of podcast that you've been surprised about? Like, has anything caught you off guard? Like, I did not realize this was going to be the case. it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's like it's very taxing. It really is is it's a lot. The editing is very long.

You know, there's because of certain situations that we can't like publicly talk about right now. Like there's a lot that you put on you. Yeah, there's a lot of you put on. Some personal things, right? Yeah. So currently in about. I'm just I'm kind of having to like take the, the high road in that sense of like because I know that this isn't going to be forever And. So, so you're like talking about your work split is very heavy on you.

Yes. Yes. But that's Yeah, it's something that you guys have talked about. Yes. And understanding like. Correct. That's a partnership. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. It is. And that's a that is a part of being in a partnership because there's going to be times like a person is only going to be able to bring 30%, you know, same. So that's why I have to make sure my cup is always overflowing, you know?

Yes, but that's hard because I have children and, you know, we're living with my parents, you know, And so, like, we don't really have our own space either. So like, just having to be creative to find spaces and like, we've been recording in my childhood bedroom, you know, so it's so great. But I think it's been a lot challenging for me because I've, I, my body is healing. You know, my nervous system is trying to come back to a parasympathetic state. And there's a long journey.

And when I have children that are still in active trauma and we're still in the middle of court litigations and stuff like that, have so much going on. Yeah. And so really having to like Rise. And then if I do rest during the day or I do a little bit of editing, then you know that I have a seven year old that is way demanding my attention, you know, And so, like it becomes hard because that's where like ADHD comes in is like I have I want to finish it now, you know, how can I put this on pause?

Because now I'm in the middle of it. I really want to finish it now. But then I have children that are demanding my attention. And so that's been like really hard conversations because I am so devoted to my kids and I spending quality time with them. And then there's times like more specifically. It's she helps.

But that she has to understand that they're it's okay to play alone sometimes, but it's a really struggle for her because she's showing signs of trauma induced OCD, which is oppositional defiance disorder. And that's because of her anxious, disorganized attachment that she has and it's mainly from a production of her father. Yeah. And so we're having to heal and be at active therapy and, you know, this is a weekly thing.

And so that's very emotionally challenging for me as a parent because I'm having to help regulate all the time. And then I and so disregulated. And so I have to really I've cried many times in the shower this week because it just. Gets. I get so overwhelmed and I feel that ego creeps in is like you're failing as a parent. You're not doing it because she's that sad. And I have to remember it like I have to release God. And it's not my job as a parent to fix my child's emotions.

There's nothing to fix. She's allowed to be disappointed and she's allowed to be angry. She's allowed to be inside. We're supposed to be like we're supposed to try to foster them, right? Yeah, right. And that's that's the hard thing to I want to I want to make you never hurt. And that's that's not healthy. You know, somebody. Who's never hurt is going to go out from under your protection and get destroyed. Yeah. And then how do you how do you how do you know what joy is?

You know, how do you learn to really have gratitude for joy and and things like that if you've never experience any suffering? And I mean, I think that if we can make suffering less in the world. Absolutely not be the cause of. Now to be the kind you know, but suffering itself is inevitable. But it's really difficult to see your children, like, struggling in that way. And I just seen how like I'm doing. That's right. Yeah. You know, and like so myself, Grace.

I mean, I'm like, that makes me want to just say on air again how much I appreciate my wife and partner for allowing me to have worked as like I used to go to work and make money. And right now I'm not actively doing that every day. And Ryan go and work on the podcast. Yeah. And something that is, you know, it is going to make money. I have no doubt of that right now. But this podcast is a it's a time dream. I it's time that I'm not parenting and she's doing it by herself in that time.

I'm so blessed to have a partner to, to support me and she supports my podcast. And so she doesn't let them come bother me all the time. Whenever I'm editing, she doesn't mind. She keeps everybody quiet when we're recording, right? It's amazing to have somebody to do that with right? I am. I'm really I'll be sending you positive vibrations. Why aren't. You? Why are you trying to carry the load by yourself while you know you're trying to support your friend? Yeah I think. That's.

Yeah, it's a lot. And I hope that it's not for too long. And I hope you're able. To do it. Yeah. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. There is, There is to it. There is. So I mean we have a pretty good, like little schedule. We try to get stuff done, like why the kids are at school, like as far as, like recording and stuff, you know? And so, you know, it'll. It'll. All work itself out, I guess. Coming randomly. Do you find so do you guys live together?

Okay, but do your kids belong well? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's so there's. Age gaps for sure. So I know it is a struggle for Phenix because, you know, her two older sisters moved back to Texas. And so she's had a lot of, like, trauma that's happened, like, all at once. And so, you know, surrounded by boys and there's such an age gap. Her brother is 12 she's seven, then her son is 15, and then Brayden is 13. So him and Dakin are the same age. They get along really well together as well.

But our kids are also just like they like to be alone, you know, too. And so, you know, when we have the pull up and stuff, like they were playing a lot together, but like taking our sons that are around the same age, like they have a lot of similarities. Like they they're so freaking creative. They love the molding of clay. Stop motion movies and comics and things like that.

So My son's friends, a lot of time like making stop motion movies and I just foster that like, you know, like anything you want to do, I will support that. So, you know, he. Just we just like to watch movies and, you know. Like, very chill, you know? But yeah, I know like, I mean, but our kids do get along with each other for the most part. And I mean, they kind of fight like brother and sister. But yeah, like, not like anything crazy, right? Yes.

They really mean. Little. Yeah. You being a. Smart. Yeah. Like you're being a. Snitch, right? Yeah. You know. Yeah. But, like, we have just such a great dynamic with each other's children. Yeah. To, you know, like. And that's a good thing to have, like, with community, like. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, yeah, you know, because she can talk better to my kids sometimes than I can. Yeah. You know, and they talk to her sometimes better than they talk to me.

And so it's like we're really like good at being able to help each other in that way. Yeah. To navigate. And you know, it's like that's a beautiful thing. You like sometimes if Brayden gets mad at me and he doesn't want to talk to me, like I look at her and I'm like, Yeah, you know? And so, you know. And giving the kids like, an option, like there's there's more than one safe space.

Yeah. You know, because, like, not every child is going to want to go to their parents for everything and that's okay. And so I just letting kids know that like you have more than one safe space because you know in a lot of homes that like have like abuse or whatever, you know, that becomes like the you got to keep the secret, you know, and I don't talk about it. And so kids really don't have a safe space, you know, to talk to and question know, and I feel like a burden to somebody.

And so I always like, talk to your counselor, top tier their kids title entries, you know, like there is many other safe adults in my safe at ops ask you to keep secrets. Now you. Know so we're very on like boundaries teaching concerns you know, your eyes you just. Say no no yes. Centers. You don't want hug every day you want to. Chris High five do it, you know, because you're not obligated to hug me. You're not, you know, obligated to do anything.

My wife will argue with that one, with her, with her son, who, like, is like. Yeah, yeah. I mean. It's time to get. Into a game with him and love it. You know, he holds me without reservation and it's like, almost like, wants it so bad that he's like. yeah, she can. See what she does, you know, she wants those hugs. And her family was very different than mine. Like, she's got very, very close relationships with like many members of her family.

And I got to talk to her mom talk every day that I haven't talked to my mom in over a year. And I'm okay. It yeah, yeah. That's that's kind of how it is. And so we definitely give a balance to our children of like her, like give me a hug and be like, you know, how cool. Yeah. Yeah. Anything. Instead of like. I created handshakes with each of my children. Special handshakes. Yeah. I love that. I love seeing. Especially the more intricate, the better.

And I mean, we got to keep it simple because we get I really I mean, they get confused and it's hard to, remember? But like, you know, my youngest, he's like, you know, if he hugs you, his hug is like just like turning his, like body touching you. You know. Like the side. He may not he may put his arm around you, but a lot of times it's just like this. And so I think our push buttons and the he makes em.

And so I'm like, what if we just do a handshake so that way, you know, you don't feel obligated to, like, hug me, know? But then he did tell me the other day, he said, I feel like that one is getting old. In into like, I'm a freshman. And these are ties. Yeah. Now I learn some new things. So. And I got to. Rewatch The Parent. Trap. yeah. Yeah, yeah. I knew that. We knew that when the kid in play. That is our goal. That's not even. That has. To be like, Hey, we have to try.

But, you know, like freestyle dancing, I'm gay. But when it comes to, like, choreography and trying, I am the coordination goes out the. Door like, can you come into the lead on the set? And I'm like, I need the choreography. Yes. If I freestyle, I look like Tina from Bob's Burgers. But, you know, you give. Me some choreography that I can learn and has like an eight count to like, I think we. Killed it with synchrony swimming. Choreography over the summer. And far as that video, it's.

It's hard to find you missing out Now. You guys up there, do you have a big followership on. TikTok we. Just know we just created a a group page I think I have like I got up there recently, you know, I'm. Almost 2000 followers like on my end of it. Well, you it's true. I don't care what it is. Make a joke. Yeah. I really don't even post video. No, you know. I have like a few on my page. It's just very. Difficult in this. Yes. And I'm. But. Well, like.

Yeah, I don't like to wrap up conversations ever because I'm just like, talking. Yes. I'm pretty sure if I air a three hour conversation with someone, I'm going to have trouble having people listen. And so one of the last couple things I want to ask is, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you guys feel like it's important to share with the audience? For me, not that I can think of in this moment because I feel like we covered a lot and I don't remember exactly.

We've like all we covered it. When you have like I'm here for all of it. But following our shows, we were, you know, yeah, we're going to talk about those now. Like it's just. You know, like we've said a hundred times, like, you know, you have a lot to say. And we, we, we love hard. We don't judge. We you know, we're a safe place. Yeah. And that's what, you know, that's. What we're going to be. That's what we're here for. Yep. Come on down to found out. Don't you know that that was.

That was synchronized? It was like the land of love all the time. So where can people find out more about the marvelous Masonic models? Yeah. And besides, on future upcoming episodes of this show, where we will learn more about each of you individually. You can find. Us on pretty much anywhere YouTube, Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Spotify. Apple Podcasts. So like for full episodes, hit at Apple, Spotify and YouTube, YouTube gives you the visual.

If you're not a visual person, you know, you can head over to the Spotify and surf things on Instagram, Facebook. We really just post like shorts, you know, real little things like that to kind of give people clips and draw people in. We are going to be doing some like fun, like fall giveaways soon. I got handmade jewelry and I have like to really amazing journals that. Need more sells on Amazon that you. Can buy. But I at the end of my relationship, I was creating, which is wild to me and.

I. Made a self love journal. It's called Journey to Self-love and it's like full of these really incredible journal prompts words of affirmation, quotes from like inspiring people like Eckhart, totally. Brené Brown. It's like, help people on their journey to self-love. And then there's another one that I created that is the it's like, I forget what it's called.

It's like an abnormally long title, which is so funny for me, but it's like the introduction or activating consciousness through something. I don't know, maybe, but it's an introduction to the chocolate system. And so there is affirmations, journal prompts for every single chakra. And it's a lot of work too, in this one is really, really great. Go buy it right now for your friends and for yourself. For Christmas or party lucky stocking. Stuffer like like that's the ultimate gift man.

And like help your friends freaking hill. Get some yeah yeah some. Work man. And tuning in to our podcast in the. Month of October is going. To be very exciting. Yes visually. And. Visually so make sure you are. If you. Do. Following. Yep it's going to be great. And we don't know what the other person is. You know, And we have so we have new podcast episodes every single. Morning and every single. Monday is new episodes. And then we started this week. This is the new day. We just.

You know, we just made out so Fanny tastic Fridays is we start doing Fantastic Fridays this week and it is just like maybe like an hour series. We try to keep it short. HD Sometimes just happen, but we're we are just like telling each other jokes. We don't know what each other is doing. We like literally write things down on a piece of paper, cut it, crinkle it up, put it in our food packs and pull it out and just we have chili. Did you know. Those.

Signs that we're going to be the podcast platform? Is that like live on? Yeah. So every Friday it's only on like I post, I'll post clips and stuff. Well, and like Instagram, TikTok and stuff, but you can only see it on YouTube for four episodes. So those are those episodes will not be on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, so you can tune in that way to see. That because. It's very it's a visual experience. I mean, it is, you know, for listening ears to.

But because the really common to our movies that like that's kind of what fantastic friends are going to be like, right. Yes. The most recent one you comment on, I think. Yes. Where I had red glasses on. Yes. It was much more comical. Yes, yes, yes. This is what. I was initially expecting whenever I know the podcast was like, I'm here for both of it. But like, I think that was really awesome. Like these things. You know, come on Mondays for, you know. The. The really nitty gritty, you know.

Which we still joke and like we joke. It's not conducive for light hearted, but you know, it'll be our, you know, more serious topics, you know, and stuff like that. And then on Fridays ending the week with just lighthearted laughs out. Of that laughter ceiling. Man, it really is.

I've actually been like mentally exploring, doing some sort of live something just like, you know, like I love the podcast version of it, but I would love to interact with people in a more like, you know, immediate way. Yeah, I. Haven't figured out what my thing is going to be. Yes. No, but I love anything. Surprises you guys. Is there anything else you guys want to share? You know, just follow us, spend for us. Are you in love? Donations anyway? Yeah. Tell your friends time people share

my comment. Subscribe. It's like you and I haven't been especially great at that for me. Like you've been probably the most vocal supporter and we've just met other and I love that I've been trying to do the same thing for people for like especially like the last three or four weeks is like I was spending so much time promoting my own thing. Yeah. And it didn't feel super great was like, This is exhausting. I don't love it.

And I found that I'm much more excited to talk about other people's stuff. Yeah, and if there are people who have been on this show and happy, like I'm more than happy to share their thing because they took the time to have this conversation with me and create content for my audience. I want to I want to lift them up as much as possible. So like, I think that's more what I'm going to do a lot more. I was just. Like, Yeah. That's that's exactly how I feel.

I love like, I just get so much joy out of like seeing other people, like, do the thing and me succeeding. And so I just want to share it and so much like it's really good content. So thank you so shoot it. Yeah, well. You know, it's a little weird. Whenever I get confident about something I care so much about, like, you know, my wife and I about this that I'm so confident about, like the topical stuff that, you know, it's like if you tell me, it's like,

I love that you're like the things that they do. Yeah. But whenever you tell me that this, you know, project that I love working on that is so close to me, it's, it's really a piece of me. Whenever people are confident that I'm like, I feel way too seem. Like I know. Yes. Even I love it. I yeah, I really do appreciate that feedback. It means so much. But still I get kind of weird. I mean, it's almost like.

What's your motive behind saying that, you know, and that's just like that inner child that's really trying to create like safe connections that people like meaningful of, like someone actually, like really seeing you. Yeah. You know, And just like, I've had to learn to accept that shit. Like, you know, if someone tells you, you know, I don't know. You're beautiful or whatever, like, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, or you have really great toenail polish.

I don't know. You know, I. Just hate your legs. thank you. Welcome. You have a great year. Thank you. But just accepting compliments, you know, just accepting it because, I think, too, like. People are so weird about stuff like that and always feeling like you have to, like, dish a compliment back out because it just becomes awkward learning to just say thank you. Yeah. And also realizing that compliments are opinions.

Yeah. So if it's, you know, and what I've decided about opinions that I've been saying this a lot to myself and others lately is that opinions are like clothes. Try it on and see if it fits. If you don't like it, take it off like so whenever somebody tells me, it's like, man, you're so assertive. My do I like that as a thing? Like, yes, I do. Like, I do want to be considered assertive.

So, you know, either way, thank you for the call, but if I don't like it, I'm going to say things and I'm going to try it on like, No, I don't really like that about myself. Like, that's that's how I foster in my in my soul. So I'm just going to say, take that one off and, you know, yeah, you put it in a good way, but good relief amount of goodwill about Dani. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah, I know that's been really helpful to me because I know it's hard to think about all the opinions that have been put towards all the ones that exist. As you know, for black men, like the ones that exist for people with AIDS, there's so many different opinions. And if I try to wear them all, I'm going to go crazy. Yeah. So it's like it's just like putting on an. Album that's gonna get heavy. She's going to be real heavy. All right, I'm going to. Wrap it up. Yeah.

So thank you again to Marilyn and Patricia for being such great guests and being vulnerable in our conversation because it has been amazing. I really appreciate it. And I think our listeners will to make sure to check out the Marvelous for stock models on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave a review. I really appreciate the feedback and it helps me get heard by more listeners.

Follow this podcast so you get updates, new episodes, livestreams, which are in development. We just talked about that and any bonus content I might share if bonus or behind the scenes content is what you're really after. Go check out the Authentic on Air with Bruce Alexander. Patrick Page. Share this episode with someone that you think might enjoy it. Right now. I want to help so many people, but they have to be to hear this show to get in on all this healing.

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Great episode but until next time to my guest and everyone listening. Be yourself and love yourself. Bye now. Bye! Bye