Welcome to Athletes Authority on air, where we interview guests who have made a meaningful.
Contribution to the sporting industry.
In each episode, we unpack their stories, systems and strategies for navigating through a career in sport as an athlete.
Or a coach.
Before we jump into today's episode, would love to let you know about our upcoming Coach immersion that this basically is open for anyone really in the health and wellness space, from personal trainer through to strengthniting coach, in private, pro
semi pro, any environment, physiotherapists, Allied Health. We've had pretty much anybody in everyone come and attend this course from Australia and also lucky enough to have a fair few people from around the world coming at ten which is pretty amazing.
From there.
So it's a three day immersive experience with the team here at AA in Melbourne. We're looking at the twenty six to twenty eighth of June. So if this is something you've ever thought about doing, please feel free to reach out to either the AA Instagram or myself personally and I'll be able to point you in the right direction. Jump on the phone and have a chat to see
where it actually is something that would benefit you. And now into today's episode, Welcome back to Athletes to Thorty on Air, episode one hundred and seventy nine.
Joined today by Aaron Scully.
He's currently the athletic performance coach at Newcastle Knights. A little bit of a story there to tell you in a minute podcast listeners will be over that. Bud now and owner of I Perform and I Perform the Labs. Mate, thanks for jumping on.
Thanks mate, thanks for having me part.
It's probably coincides really good with you actually, mate, about two years ago. I was a Newcastle fan for twenty two years and about two years ago I gave up.
I'm chokies now.
But probably coincide when you join them, wasn't it about two years ago?
Yeah?
Mate, Yeah, it was a roundabout that time actually yeah two Yeah, twenty twenty three was my first year, so I was at the Tigers before that, which great club. But yeah that was that was that And yeah, join your cast from the Lights twenty twenty three and had a great season and there here we go again.
Made it hurt.
I'm not gonna lie it hurt because there's always a bit of newie in me. It hurt last year because you guys obviously did so well, which has not been the norm for the previous at least ten years anyway, So congrats to you for doing a great job there mate with the boys, and we'll jump into that in a minute, but mate, you're getting some good press.
We had Forbes magazine in.
Yesterday into your facility and you recently just opened up
it's called I Performed Lab. We had a bit of a chat off air beforehand, which was obviously great, but maybe to give the listen a little bit insight made into what the vision was behind opening up this space, because he's pretty unique and really just niching down on one aspect of athlete devent which will athlete developent or performance or longevity as you called it before, being the testing side of things, mate, So we'd love to get some of your thoughts and ideas.
Yeah.
Thanks, Yeah, it is obviously an exciting, the daunting chapter for my wife and I going out and becoming entrepreneurs. Opening our facility. I guess the vision was for me, so I thought someone was actually walking in there, even though even though the doors what good problem?
Are you that busy?
Yeah?
People busting the door.
No, not at all.
Yeah, so I guess the vision was around you know, obviously, working in professional sport, you get access to a lot of a lot of cool toys, you know, like your all your sports sign stuff, the stuff we used for you know, tell people through the rehab process, but also screen for performance limitters and you know, areas that might be an increased risk of injury. And I've thought to myself, why isn't this available to everybody, and and why isn't
it more accessible to everybody. It's make their life better and to help them enjoy their weekend sport, or recover from their injuries, or even just to get some insight into what they do to see if they can do it better. So you know, everyone's wearing the woop watchers, and you know people are measuring their blood glucose and you know, getting their their dexter scans and all that kind of stuff. And I thought, well, this is just another,
you know, another piece of that puzzle. So yeah, it was funny, Like I kind of use an art book. I use a black canvas when I'm thinking or when I'm doing a bit of a brain dump or coming up with the ideas and I just was sitting up till I would have been close to midnight one night, listening.
To I don't know what I'm doing through but.
With my lead pencil and I was just drawing little shramatics and I kind of come up with this concept and it just becomes so clear. And for me, I'm a perfectionist, it's taken me a long time the kind of pull this trigger on something, but this is so clear, and you know, we found a facility and we just kind of went for it and yeah.
Here it is. I performed lab and it's it's really exciting.
It's starting to get a lot of the tension, and it's pretty cool to bring something unique not only to the central coast one from, but you know, to the health and wellness industry itself.
The vision that you mentioned there before, Like we've taken the concepts that you know a lot of people that are involved with the coaches or in the rehab space are familiar with, but you've distilled it down probably across two sort of verticals with the you know, the general punter or the average weekend warrior and then some of the semi elite that are trying to crack it into some of the more elite or spaces. What's been the
reception so far. What sort of feedback you've gotten from the community since you've been open.
Yeah, it's been it's been really good. So yeah, you're right. Yeah, generally that's probably our Zach market.
So it's the aspiring athletes, the people that are on the fringes, individual athletes as well. Yeah, definitely your weekend Warrior, but then more importantly people that are coming back from injuries so leaking up with a lot of physiasm and stuff as well.
The reception has been really cool.
It's initially it was people walking past or reaching out to me on socials kind of asking me a few
more questions like what is this? Like am I getting there to Matt's tested, or like what's But then as people started kind of pulling the trigger and rolling in, they've kind of spoken to other people and then it's kind of just I guess snowboard a little bit, and I guess the main reception or that the main feedback I'm getting is wow, like people coming in getting answers to questions they didn't know that they had in and around their body, but also seeing some of the cool
stuff that people like you or me take for granted because we get to use it every day. So you know, people are jumping on a fourth frame or you know, doing a myth Stide pool or you know, jumping on a nordboard doing a ISO thirty or something, just going like what is this? And I've got the big screens and they can see all their their stuff kind of or their scores and that kind of pop up and the force trays and it's just like wow.
And yeah, I.
Guess it would be like us before we knew what it was, seeing it for the first time.
That's that's what is kind of happening for everyone else, Yeah.
I guess. And for you as as you said you're aspiring entrepreneur.
Now, you know, that's probably really good positive reinforcement around the decision. The old lead pencil and book probably came to fruition, which is obviously what you want to have happened. You've created a pretty cool space as well. I think like that's probably an aspect that a lot of people over look. You know, you don't look like a physioclinic,
you don't really look like a gym. You've kind of found like that perfect middle ground you mentioned, got the TV there with the force trace, so it becomes quite interactive. Is there anything unique that you think that you did in that setup to maximize the engagement for the people coming through. Maybe a little tip for someone that's maybe thinking of setting up maybe they in a facility they have a little testing corner, or they're thinking of having
a dedicated room or something like that. Anything that you've sort of learned over you know, I know it's been only limited time so far, but you've obviously learned so much already.
I look, you know, I'll front load this answer with the fact that I am by no means an expert in business.
Or this area.
I'm so new to this and I'm learning every single day. To answer your question, find a really good, creative, intelligent missus because she has literally designed everything from the floor to the ceiling here, like the branding, thisesthetics, like the the layout of everything, like the colors where things go, like she was the boss. And then I guess to answer your question, you know, more directly, I think just having.
Yeah, you got to think.
Iron age and an outpotit there, like they've they've got some great stuff. Well, those iron as Matt's are, you know, second or none, They're outstanding. You know, we've got really good colors there. We've got a nice track from them.
Now.
It's done a great job with the squat rats and all that kind of stuff that I think just keeping it simple. We kind of when I drew this plan and literally when I drew it on the canvas and looks like exactly the way.
It's kind of la It's really cool to see a vision come of life.
But I kind of looked at it when I drew it and I was like, oh, it doesn't look like there's much there, Like, it looks a bit bad. But I think sometimes there's you know, beauty in things that are simple, like and clean and it's not flooded. And I think that's people come in here and they say this, it looks so big in here, like it looks really cool,
but it's the small space. It's about one hundred and one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty square meters and within that there's like two three x three meter rooms. So it probably looks spacious because of the simple design of it and you know, not trying to fill every space.
Yeah, that good minimalistic feel.
Yeah, yeah, which is probably the only part of my life that has that.
Fair enough. Fair enough, yeah, no, fair enough, great point, Lucky.
I've got a missus it is like yours, by the sounds of it, that can sort of sort all that stuff out, because I think we're a couple of battler's over here, but well made.
If you I'll just stop you on that f you are putting this podcast up tonight, We're both going to go.
Hans will really nice spin up. Gave you this is a good plan, I hope.
So, And like like you said there before, like a lot of facilities you know now in the private space, physio clinics, you know, pro clubs like you've been involved in and are involved in, you know, they have testing as a part of the club or the membership or whatever that sort of may be there. Now you've done it in both you've got your own setup. You've also done it obviously in those other environments.
What do you reckon?
Some of the big mistakes are that people make, whether that be in regards to the way the testing conducted, the way the information is delivered to the athlete, or you know, is there anything else you can sort of think about that sort of might be you know, a key, key problem that you've sort of popped up along the way.
Yeah, well, I think there's a couple of parts of that question. I think I don't think anyone, you know, anyone necessarily that I've kind of I've seen or worked with, necessarily does anything wrong. I think just with all the stuff that we have access to now, we're trying to do a lot of things, and.
You know, I guess for me, you know, I'll go back to.
A bit of a I think it's Bruce Lee or Hole or someone that said this, but you know, practice one thing and do that one thing really really well.
So for me, that was the the profiling, and just instead of trying to do you know, I thought about doing the whole gym and the profiling and having a physio and doing all that, but I just wanted to keep it really simple and just to just focus on doing that one thing, that profiling, and get the answers to those questions not just around injury, bit about performance and keeping performance at the at the top end of that's a performance first, how can I improve how can
I find some some things that can help you through that and then secondaries about how can I then mitigate help the athletes or you know, person to mitigate injury risk also, and I guess that was that was kind.
Of what I wanted to do really really well.
I think the third part to that question in and around what some people could do wrong when you know, I cannot speak to everybody, but the questions that I
get here is in and around the data. So it's about it's about changing the the instead of using let me see, instead of using eccentric rate of force of development in the counter movement jump over body relative et centric, instead of using that, I just call it breaking or find your brakes, you know, and and and and linking it to to their everyday life or what they do and how that can help them you know, walk down stairs or to to stop suddenly or to you know,
things like that, because it's about interpretation, and that was a big part of this model is about interpretation and making sure that the report was interpretable and that they could read that and interpret it as somebody that knows absolutely nothing about the industry.
So that was probably, yeah, a really big, really big thing for me.
Have I answered your question, Yeah, No, definitely, I have to agree with you. I think now with everyone having to be able to have access this and ione a lot of people having access this sort of stuff, we can often speak a different language exactly what you were saying there, and it becomes just it just goes over
people's heads. So part one is exactly what you said there is the ability to relate that back to the athlete or the individual and to their specific context, because there's no point in talking to a goal for about Raby League. They might get it from a practical standpoint from watching it on TV or something. They don't I don't understand, they don't feel it, they don't get to experience what you're talking about. So the relatability to their context.
And then two exactly what you said there around when they're taking that home from a prescription standpoint or breaking down the data. Can they do that as someone who doesn't really have any idea, you know, there's nothing worse And when you go to the doctor and you get a script or something and you're trying to read it and you've got no no fucking idea what they're saying, what
they mean. So having that easily applicable that you can then make changes off the back of that, so I think, yeah, exactly that there's they're the key things now because everyone has access to it. Now, it's going to become who are the people the best at communicating the results and then the follow up process off the back of that will really succeed in that that sort of space.
That's my two cents anyway, Yeah, mate.
No, it's it's money we'll spare mate. Yeah no, yeah, definitely mate, I definitely agree. And for me too, like if I'm trying to I'm trying there's no real price points here, you know, Like we spoke about it offline around when you said what kind of what kind of prices.
Do I have?
It's hard because nobody has just a modern day lap that's you know that it's just profile people. So to me, I'm trying to make it as affordable as possible. But that also means that when I send somebody a report, I don't want to be answering you know, five or ten Instagram messages per person.
About their report.
They need to be able to read it and go, yes, I know exactly what I'm saying. And that wasn't the case in the first corner three or four weeks. But I've got that to a point now where I'm seconding with people and they go, yep, it's clear as money, And that's for me. That's great feedback because I'm talking to tradees, I'm talking at you know, sixty plus, you know, men and women that are just wanting to stay active.
I'm talking to some young athletes parents.
So the fact that they can all interpret and understand what I'm saying to them so far, it's really important.
That's also I think that obviously comes from experience, being able to understand and answering ten questions off the back of every individual. If you do in five a week either right, which isn't many, that's fifty questions, like, it becomes unsustainable and then you start to you start to be just treading water and not moving forward. So being out identified by anyone listening that sort of has a similar experience or they notice, hang on a second, I'm
getting a lot of follow up questions. Take note of that, because you can really make some changes and all of a sudden, you've fred up all this time to do what you actually said.
I doing now the best I've seen, I'll tell you, they're like my one of my mentors I coming through as an SMC is Indrew Gray. I don't know if you ever heard of Inrew Gray. Certainly someone yeah, myself and my boss Maddy j you know, we kind of come up under he is. The guy's got four brains, Like he's one of the smartest humans.
I have ever met.
But the way he can simplify, simplify things, you know, in a sentence or.
Two, just to you know, bring some.
Context to it for an athlete or you know, myself, staff or whatever, or to talk to when he's talking about something, just such an important skill.
And he's probably the best I've seen at it. And that's something I've.
Always I guess now you and thought that is really really important. I'm definitely don't have four brains, but being able to you know, be an interpreted essentially and explain, you know, a different language and interpret that different language to somebody's sort of making made sense, so that he's super powerful, I.
Think absolutely absolutely. You mentioned profiling a few times there as well. Again offline, we're sort of chatting around some of those profiles that you're doing. Maybe you want to dive into a little bit around some of the key ones that you've been doing so far, what you're looking at, what some of the key tests are, and maybe even some of the key trends you've found as well at the moment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
Well, I guess one of the one of the most the most popular one we're doing at the moment is.
A and I guess you know, I'll start with it is the.
Whole purpose behind all this and behind the name and everything is and this is what I just anching myself off is the fact that I just want people to be the best I can be. I just want to help people perform with their best. So that's that's, you know, where this kind of comes from. But yeah, there's your question. A sport ready profile, that's basically that's that's basically for
the weekend warrior, for the active person. You know, like think of it being somebody you know, twenty five to fifty that's just gets after in the gym, gets after on the weekend, maybe players os tags first, whatever, that's for them.
That's just for them that you know, it's a profile.
Then to give them an idea of where they're fitting in terms of you know, their imbalancers or their hip strength, care, strength, hamstring strength, power, mobility, all that kind of stuff, strength, power, mobility, all that kind of stuff so that they can keep doing what they're doing and enjoying it. The reason I created that particular profile was a really good friend of mine. His wife plays okay, super active feeling runs every day, go down and play tabor, play off. You goes husbands
with the kids. Three kids go out in kings and handshry pretty bad. She couldn't serve, she couldn't run, she couldn't pick up of kids, play the kids.
And I thought to myself, why don't I.
Create something that can essentially be, yeah, a little tool before they go out and they do these things, so that they can get an idea of if they do have any I'm not going I say risks is like, I'm not prettics injuries, but if they do have any strength of businesses that could therefore lead to something that's got that occurrence. So I did just bought ready profile them.
That's kind of broken up into four main parts. So you've got your your flexibility, mobility assessment, You've got some power assessments, you've got some strength, and then you've got a bunch of resilience tests as well. It takes about forty five minutes. An example might be, you know, we'll video at the start, We'll do like a a needle war, real simple, We'll do a overhead squad and we'll do a thoracic rotation and I'll just video that and I'll
score that subjectively. But it also gives me a bit of an idea of like watching them having an idea. You know, I've already seen that if they've got you know, if they've got limited ankle range. You can see how they're moving through a squat pattern. I can see if they're limited through a thoracic rotation. So I can already kind of deal with a bit of a bit of a picture in my head.
And sorry to cut you off that, but that's that's your experience as a coach of all these years coming into play, right, Like you're using that as as a screen. You're already going to predict what's going to happen before it's going to happen a little bit. And that's that's that coach's eye in full effect that people often undervalue in some of those scenarios like that.
Yeah, well it's funny to say that because I was thinking of using a I wasn't going to use in human trap. It was really good programs from Valot, but I wanted to rely on my own experience there. I guess this is where the AI or not AI, but where the technology can sometimes uh you know, take away sometimes things to automated, right, So I wanted to kind of.
Visually see that my own feedback on that.
So yeah, So then from there we'll go into a power you know a bit of a bit of some power tests to see them day, depending who they are, what they kind a lot to do. They might do a drop hop off a twenty cent meter box just looking at their rs I off each leg, their symmetries, and we'll do a what else we do we do it or we'll do a tend followed. So then that way I'm kind of building a picture already of their their kind of you know, I can look at their break and I can look.
At their relative power. I can look at how they're moving in the jump.
I can look at their r you know, the RSI left and right, you know, if they're kind of efficient or efficient. Then we'll go on some strength stuff. You just jump in mate, because I can talk about the stuff with that great and you love it. Then we'll go into some strength stuff. So with this particular profile, the sport Ready protofile, we'll only do a midside pool.
And we'll do a grip test. From there we finish off.
That's almost like a session like we do your mobility, do your power, do your strength, and then we'll finish off with like a nord board or some kind of handstringing test, might be an ISO thirty Tom playing around with at the moment, or.
A or a Nordic.
We will do a some fourth frame test, so your abduction aduction at forty five degrees, and then if I'm not happy with that, I'll also do a straight leg as well, and then we'll will finish off with a I've been doing the betany.
Calf into the or into into the into the force plates. Yeah, in the into the fourth decks.
And I think you asked me early a question about what's the most common thing I'm seeing that there. That's probably the most common thing I'm seeing, like big, big differences in left and right. A lot of people, some
people that you wouldn't think super strong. There some people like you know, it might be eighty flows, you know, only maybe pushing you know, eight hundred mutons or something, which for me is like there's a couple of couple of question marks there, so that that's that And probably the hit strength and the ratios between his strength has probably been the biggest one for me and been a bit of an harm moment for a lot of the clients as well.
Absolutely, and you've you said that perfectly, like after a while you start to see those sort of trends across cohorts, you know, certain buckets of individuals or qualities as well. The calf one's very interesting if we want to dive into that just a tiny little bit, do you Probably two things come to mind for me is one is people just don't train calves enough. They don't train them heavy enough with enough intent. And then too, if they do, they're probably not doing enough bent kneework.
What's your what's your thoughts on that? Like from your perspective?
Look, mate, I I.
Couldn't tell you, like I mean, for me personally, I've never trained casks rectly well myself, we do the athletes I work with now, But yeah, I couldn't tell you, like if it's.
Yeah, it could be that. It could be that they're oh, mate, I honestly, I couldn't tell you.
I try to be pretty ejective to here, and the fact that that's just what I'm seeing, Yeah, I'd be creating a narrative if if I guess why that is.
It's such a diverse range of people that we get in here.
You know, we've got like sixty five year old bloats that might do a heap of foiling, surfing, stand up paddle boarding, and mountain biking, right through to a thirty five year old warden floor tyler.
So I don't know.
I don't know what they do outside of their training, But the fact is when they come in here, the recommendation I'll give them is they probably need to be a little bit stronger.
There.
We've got a guy doing, a guy that was to do a marathon, another guy that was to do one hundred k event in the Blue Mountains, and you know one of those guys, one or two of those guys had really really weak that needs up. And I thought to myself, it's probably something you want to address. Otherwise you might run in a few issues, not just in the event, but in your training for the event.
Yeah, and for you picking up those flags just again further creates greater buying with those with those athletes and individuals that you're testing, right because as you said, you're seeing things that they're not seeing, or you're also doubling down on things that they may have read or understand about their body as well. I guess the question there
is the follow up process. So you've got them in, you've assessed them, do you then say, hey, in eight weeks or ten weeks after a particular cycle, would love to get you back in to sort of see where you're currently at.
What's the follow up process?
Yeah, that's a great question, and I'd be welcome. I'd welcome people to help me with that. That's probably not one that we're fully across yet. The question that I've been getting is how, you know, how often should I test? And I say, well, athletes will do some of these tests every week and at very least probably every four
to six weeks. So if somebody is coming in to get some testing, are usually what I've been saying is kind of booking, you know, in stwod of three months, so we're trying to get you know, three or four of these in a year if we can.
But for these, yeah, that's that's one. That's pretty true. What I'm trying to what I'm trying to see is.
The motivation people have when they leave here about wanting to better their testing results, and potentially.
That will be a little bit more organic. That'd be the perfect case.
But yeah, that's that's a that's a that's a great question that I probably haven't one hundred percent figured out yet, hence my my novices as an entrepreneur.
That's great, mate.
I think that the transparency there's obviously fantastic because it just goes to show a lot of people love love to maybe sit on these ideas and not push them and and sort of I could have done this, I could have done that, but you haven't read it, crack you learning on the lane. I'm sure if we're ask in four months time, you're going to have a completely different answer. And that's the the perks of being a business owner, mate, So I love that.
Yeah, what, yeah, thanks mate.
I just said to the you know, to my wife at the start, like when we started all this, I said, look, I need you to help me with all the business stuff because all I want to do is just help people perform their best. That's what I've been, That's what I'm obsessed with that myself, and that's all I want for everyone else.
And I said, if we can make a living from this.
Or make a business from this, or you know, anything to do with money and the business development side, I need your help because I just I need to keep this as my core purpose because that I feel like that that is what's going to you know, cultivate, you know, suggest in other areas. I just need to keep that as myself purpose. So I'm sure I'll get some help with that other stuff along the way.
Absolutely, I reckon it could be really valid in a couple of months time to touch base with you again with your wife as well, to be able to go through some of those things, because I reckon a lot of people listening to this art coaches, whether they're working for themselves or someone else, and they probably sit in a very similar boat as you, like they love helping people, They love doubling down on the training side of things, testing side things obvious for your scenario, but that that
follow up to the next part to actually make it viable living is probably the other part they're missing. So I reckon, let's let's pencil that in, mate, and we'll sort of see where where you're at in a.
Little bit of time with with her by your.
Side as well well, Mate, I could be busting with my hat out in the center of terrible.
Mate when when your core so so yeah, it may all of all of a ship.
I doubt it, Mate, I doubt it.
And the reason I doubt it is I really want to start diving into this a little bit around your professional career as well in sport, because we haven't really touched on it yet. And I reckon, if you were to open up a textbook, mate, you have probably the perfect career progression. Now I'm sure you can probably a test that may not be the case. But let me just read it out so people can understand why I
say this. So, your intern with the Junior Pathways with Rugby Australia, you're the SENC intern with the Newsouelan's Wartars. You're at SSENC at a private school. I'm not going to say the school because I'll just bombit the name.
You're an assistant SENC at Carnella Sharks, the head SENC of the Junior Wallabies, the Academy lead SENC and then two senior SENC with the war Retars again SENC in private with the newsoor Wal's Institute of Sport an IRL West Tiger's head performance coach and now obviously at the Newcastle Knights, which we alluded to at the very start there.
So mate, like if you look at that over your career there like a lot of people look at that and go that is honestly, that's the dream You've had, A dabbled in sport, professional sport, across ages, cross codes, little bit of school stuff again which is a different environment. Then also the private stuff in the institute as well. What do you say to that?
I say that.
She's a lot of there's a lot of grinding there and actually looks really good.
It looks great, mate, it looks fantastic.
When when you email it to me. But I guess there's a lot of there's a lot of space to feel in between all that intern in terms of you know that the things I have to do to get some of those opportunities. Yeah, I will say I wasn't the head of performance at the West Tigers.
I was. I was I was a performance coach, which.
You do have written, so I probably read that wrong. That's typical of me.
That's fine. Yeah, yeah, I don't know where do you.
Want to start, mate, Well, like honestly, so like the process out of you worked your way through the you know, the typical and the classical intern process, through to assistance or junior programs and then through to the head programs or the lead programs. So like looking at that there, how do you how did you find that did each
of those internships across multiple sports? You know, what information did you learn, what people did you have some along the way that could then set you up to each part of that.
The other thing, I think that.
You've done a really good job of again outside looking in multiple sports, multiple environments, which a lot of people probably maybe would just say I'm just going to stay in rugby league or I'm just going to stay in rugby union or soccer.
Yeah your thoughts on that, yeah, mate.
For sure?
Well I guess the the Yeah, even just getting to that internship that I had, like the Junior Pathways internship I kind of had through UNI that was kind of like we had to do some the hours and I managed to get into the junior goal scored and I coached the team every Tuesday and Thursday night.
That was some of the elite rugby union players in my area.
And then that internship that I had at the Waratahs that I initially got knocked back to that internship in twenty thirteen and then I've got accepted in twenty fourteen. Will let you know, I was I was twenty nine when I did that internship, so I was or twenty eight like I was, I.
Was a little bit older.
That was six days a week, that was full time, unpaid, and at the time I was living on the Central Coast, so it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't all all you.
Paid in fancy like was it was a grind.
We did eventually move down to Sydney where I you know, I worked in you know, I did that internship, but I was also working at Riverview College in the mornings before that, so I drive over to Lane Cove and then i'd leave there, I'd go to the Watoils all that and go back to.
Lane Cove.
In the afternoons of the afternoonship and then we had a twenty four hour caplay down the road for me and I was working in my masters, so it was it was it was a tough, tough, tough, tough year. But one thing that I feel like really helped me is initially I thought I was doing the internship to get a job. I was like, I've got to get a job to get a job. But then I thought
to myself, I'm going to make it. I'm going to do such a good job here that when I leave there there's going to be a gap they're going to be like, oh that's what getting done or that they you know, And that's the way I kind of approached it. That helped me just to do a good job every day. And when that winning the Super Rugby Total that year for the first time, Mamber, that was really cool. I
feel like I played a small part in that. From there, exactly that happened, I got I got off of the job at the Sharks, and then that's why I kind of left the Sharks after that year, because the Warritas then came back and offered me an opportunity running their academy. So you know, I think it was a two or three year contract and I was like, beauty, just where it all started.
I want to get back there and then yeah, it all kind of evolved from that.
But you know that that academy role that I had at the War of Tars was like I was still doing rehab for the senior team there and so I was there at like six in the morning, I was leaving at you know, probably seven o'clock at night, sometimes
like even later. And then yeah, that that kind of I guess cultivating into the junior Wallabies role where I went over to Tabilisi in Eastern Europe, lived there for six weeks, well, the World Cup was on and a few changes happen at the Tars and then I got my first senior role in Strength and Power and then opportunity at end Swiss and then yeah, in regular leagues where I've.
Kind of found my home for the last probably well almost five years.
So saying, what's what's the value of having all those different experiences to draw upon? You think like, obviously you were as you mentioned there and I wasn't aware of that you were a bit older at the time, so you're probably coming with a bit more of a level ahead. You know, you know who you are as a person as well, which I think even from my own experience, mate, Like when you're a bit younger, bit ego driven, you
want to do everything. You know, you sort of take everything really to heart and personally if you maybe make a mistake or anything like that. A bit older, you've got a bit of a different outlook on things. You're probably older than a lot of the players as well, or the same age, which really helps.
That's important.
Yeah, I think, Yeah, what's some of the big things you sort of took out of that, like from your perspective.
Yeah, well, I think it goes back a little bit from that, Like before that.
The reason I was a little bit older is because I was I was trying to be an athlete myself.
I was I thought I was.
Trying to make the Olygy Games as a fighter, as a boxer. That's kind of what I've seen. That's what I thought I was going to do. But I was just going to be a slight art until you know, pro the mid twenties. But that's what probably delayed my
university and all that kind of stuff. So then when I did finally get that internship, I guess I related to a lot of the players, you know, from that quant of combat experience that I had and I could work with a lot of them in that kind of book, you know, that boxing space, and I could relate to them.
And I think that that.
Really really helped me in and around you know that kind of you know that that high test poster owe, you know, competitive men's kind of environment, because I could have my own there and and and I guess to answer your question around what all those different experiences do for me, Well, they I guess they give me versatility. Because when I was at for instance and so far was instituted of support, I was working with a lot of power athletes.
So I had to really change the way I thought, change my approach.
I couldn't just have this proble let's go, you know, you gotta guitar or whatever, like I had to. You know, some of those athletes that don't have use of their lower lins, if you mess them up in their upper body, their activities of vail and they didn't go down the drain. So I had to really be methodical with the way I coached things. And yeah, and I guess just working with a number of different personalities and both from the staff and athlete perspective, men, women, young, old, you know.
Old school, new school. It's just given me and I'm still learning. I'm certainly still learning.
But it's given me a really good, I guess foundation to be able to deal with different personalities and you know, get the most out of people because I think something that I can do really well.
And that ties back into what you're saying before about relatability. Even with what you're doing now, right with the testing stuff, it all ties back in beautifully like that.
Yeah, for sure, I was the personal training before all of this, and I reckon that. Yeah, kicker, honestly, man, like that was one of the best things that ever be Running groups training people like that game is such an edge, such an inn you don't really we may have a bit too much pride as an industry sometimes to admit that, but that's fact to me.
Like running it, running a group.
Fitness session on the beach or a bosting class or whatever, Like when you've got like twenty thirty people that have all come from work and they've just been looking looking forward to this just to get it done and rip in and then you're just kind of that ball of energy for an hour and just know how to kind of contain a group and motivate a group like that.
Study's an absolute goal.
Couldn't agree more. I have we have a.
What they called shooting placement in at the moment, and I was having a chat to it today around you know what it was like for me when I started out, and like, literally that was what I said to our personal training was where I started and sort of went through that a little bit and I explained it to it. She's like, oh, how does that help you for this? And I was like, well, you can talk to anybody,
and you have to learn to talk to anybody. There's no there's nothing longer than a rest period of a minute, and you're not saying a word. That's like a microwave. They go forever. And I gave you the example. I gave the example of what one of my mornings used to look like. And it was a bit of a flashback thinking about even when you were saying that then. So in the morning, had had bar bells session for group lifting for middle aged women called barb bells barbellas that was the play on words.
You know, you'd have five or six.
It was not that day, So five or six middle aged women that were essentially more like a powerlifting block and that was awesome, you know. So they're in at five thirty till six thirty. Then at six six thirty I had a young fellow who was trying to lose weight and he was a gay man, and that was a different story. Again, you've got to be very different the way you talk to him. Then I would have an athlete come in. It's eight o'clock. It was trying to make Q Cup. Then at nine o'clock, I'd have
an elderly couple who were a track coach. He is deaf as well, had hearing problems. So like all of a sudden, like in that space of four hours, the diversity that you've just gone through, Like you're not going to talk to the group of women the same way are going to speak to the elderly couple to the same We're going to speak like they're just different conversations. And you've got to learn to quit, like talk very quickly or you're in all sorts.
Yeah I know, I know, Yeah, yeah mate, I couldn't.
I could.
You've just absolutely nailed that. Yeah, I couldn't agree with him more.
And that can you imagine if athletes author.
Already had a personal training course when well, I mean we're probably in a different age back in here, but when we're kind of starting personal training, like I would have just rocked on that absolutely.
Absolutely.
What I wanted to ask you is a bit of every leg fan, Yeah, cheers locks, you welcome. There's always a plug for him.
Is mate.
You've obviously, so you're at the sharky's now twenty fourteen. It's now twenty twenty four and you're at the Knights. That's a long time to be in in any industry, let alone a sport. What have been some of the biggest changes in the last ten years in the NRL? And this could be anything in regards to your roles, the physical demand of the players, like what what have you just noticed between then and now? That's just been the biggest biggest difference will change?
Yeah, probably the sports science.
Yeah, that's that's probably for me, the biggest one.
And I think.
That's yeah, there's definitely a lot more reliance being placed on that.
Again, at the moment, I think I could be.
Off the market, but I feel like, you know, the two thousand and fifteen Sharks, when I was there, there was a lot of guys at the back end of their career, probably still from a little bit of that old school, just real tough like you look at your poor.
Gallons or Michaelis those sort of guys.
Michael Lenness, Yeah, Luke Lewis just like tough guys have just trained hard, like such real bloats. So funny you're playing tricks on each other, and I think, like, now there's.
A lot more.
Why are we doing Not in a bad way, but like people like athletes wanting to understand why they're doing something, how long they've got to do it, for, how much they did, How can I improve this? Like just really asking great questions. But it's just through this progression and development of sports science even more, I guess, and I think to an extent, like you hear the word load and all that kind of stuff spoken about a lot more in conversations with coaches and things like that through
every club, not just through this club. So I think, like, I just think the acceptance of that and how it gets.
Used is.
A lot more I guess developed, But not to say that it governs everything that they do. I think there is still a big old school train, hard work, ethic mentality. Definitely in our club there is like our guys just mate seriously, they just get after it like it is.
We have got some of the most like motivated, hungry.
They're like hungry dogs when they train, but they just get after it's it's it's serious.
I'll stand back sometimes a lot. Wow.
So they're like guys who are still trying to make it. They look like a team that hasn't made it yet. But all the thought process behind the training and that that they're doing is just a lot in everything.
It's just a lot more mostrotical, I think.
And yeah, so to answer your question in a couple of words, it's probably the sports sides.
Yeah, absolutely, what what do you think the biggest shift in the players mentality has been around that?
Is it?
Do you think that they they see that they want to have good longevity in the game?
Is it, you know, their own personal ambition?
Like what you sort of see as like a bit of a generalization across the board from the individuals because I think rugby rugby league contact based athletes. You know, maybe in the past I still looked at the dummies running into each other and whatnot, but really that's not the case.
Like they're very educated, smart individuals.
Mate, you cannot, you can no longer.
Just you can't just say, oh, you know, footy players or whatever, they're They're not they are, they're they're just they're they're just asked.
They that.
They're all like we're all the same. They're just really a lot better at what they do than what we probably work. But I think the motivation is exactly that twofold. It's number one, it's the longevity. But they want to know how they can sustain their career for the longest period of time and be available every week and whatnot.
But second to that, and probably more important than that, they want to.
Know how they can get faster, stronger, bigger, more powerful.
But they are just on a never ending pursuit of that.
So the fact that we you know, I'm the strength of power coach, there's and I'll look after the speed as well, So you know, they fatal to me to be able to have, you know, answers in those areas.
And I think you cannot, you can no longer.
And I see you've already posting a lot of really good content around different program structors and whatnot, some of which I've definitely taken from. But you can no longer just give a one size pitch all approach, Like they need to feel like they're getting their their program individualized and they're getting better individually as well.
So so I think I'll.
Answered the question I think long longevity and just how they can perform better for sure.
And just just bridging off that they're what you said there in the group environment. You know, you're obviously lucky
in the professional setting more than some others. But even at a recreational level, when you've got one ks to a thirty athletes and you're trying to give them that individual attention, how do you find mind that you can deliver on that with maybe limited resources, if the younger coach listening to that be able to really deliver on Yeah, I want to feel like I'm giving the athletes attention they deserve whilst understanding that hey, like it'd be impossible
to stay up all night in program thir individual programs let alone have that gym environment, right.
Oh mate, seriously, like I've and you know, I'll just I went to that question a little bit in directly. First, I'll give you an example, like I have seen teams be very successful doing just one program once I fits all. I've seen teams be really, really unsuccessful when a coach tries to do thirty different programs, so you need to be somewhere in the middle. I think the best way to do it, there's a lot of ways. The way I like to do it is just bucket it. I
think we've heard lots of coaches talking about it. So if I had thirty guys, you know which I did it. I think I spending when I was an ent. Switch also looked after North Sydney the rugby union team old father.
I just kind of bucketed.
I said, those guys need to get bigger, those guys need to get stronger.
So you guys are going to do air wraps and back or sets, and you guys.
Are just going to lift heavy stuff lots and really simplify it that way, like you guys are doing size extras after every section, and you've got an extra section the day before a game, and you guys are you guys are doing more strength and power.
Stuart and and it's just about then.
Aside from that, you know, if you're in that environment, Aside from that, it's just having conversations saying.
Hey, look mate, I've got you on.
You need to get bigger, so we need you doing this is your diet sweet, and then you have a couple of meal plans you've got to you know, you might have a gainer's meal plan, you might have a maintainer's, and you might have a you know, a super's meal plan, you know like, and then you've got your your buckets, your service and everybody and everyone's happy. Everyone's trying to buying in. It's just that little touch point that creates a little bit of buy like.
That's good.
Absolutely, no, it's great. It's great advice. I think exactly
what you said there. The more you can relate that to the athlete, even going right back to what we said there at the start, and it sort of comes right back to that, mate, the last question I got here for you, and this is again just as a bit of a fan and this is credit to you and obviously the team at the Knights today they actually brought out the ladder, the live ladder of teams with the most and the least amount of games misdeed injury
this year. I think Newcastle was seventeen of eighteen, so that's obviously great as a club that you're obviously succeeding in that there by having the best players available for
the most of the season. The game this year is obviously gone on new speed, and we're seeing some different injuries, some usual you know, your hammis being probably I guess quite unquote the usual ones, but some different ones like biceps has been big this year, PEX and obviously cancushion is still a big, big player from your perspective, again, probably you've got a larger bandwidth than a lot of
other people in the last ten years. Anything that you've noticed in the game at that level this year that may have influenced some of that stuff, and even at a more grassroot level, things that coaches might be able to do to start potentially maybe minimizing or reducing some of those injuries at their level as well.
Yeah, I think, look, I don't want to crowd in a narries on here.
I'll just give my I guess opinion based off and you know what I see.
Firstly, I didn't see that list, so that's pretty cool. I think of the.
Three injuries we've got, two of them are breaks, So there's this a hole that you can do with a broken limb sometimes. But but yeah, so that's that's a positive for our whole, our whole organization. But look like I don't know the answer your question, and I don't want to give too many answers, but I think if you look at the game from the outside, there is no question about how much fast are and how much stronger and more dynamic athletes are. There is absolutely no
question there. The second thing would be that there's there's obviously there's you know, I know, any our games there's been a really high amount of ball in play that could be chance, you know, I guess that could be skill level. There's no errors, people sticking to the rules, understanding.
The rules a bit better.
The six again has probably been a little bit more continuity. Again, that's not objective, that's just the way it feels.
Yeah, for sure, I think it's great.
What do you think? What do you think?
Without a doubt, it's the speed of the game, exactly what you said there. The time in play this year is is the highest it's ever been. The average intensity is the same as for a lot of the games have been like Origin level, which is just phenomenal, And the combination of everything you said there, like just how strong, fast, robust players are these days like things are going to break after all, no matter how good they are, And I think, unfortunately, you're just seeing the downsides of that.
And I know the clubs are looking at trying to even rest players if they are having shorter turn arounds, if they are on sort of modified time frames around injuries and things like that.
On the day, Mate, it's a contact based sport, things are going to happen.
A lot of luck involved, and a lot of bad luck is involved as well. Yeah, they probably might be things, Mate, just to speed of the game. I think like Lox gives a really good example actually around AFL when he was at the Giants, they had a real change and they noticed a massive spike in injuries for say that first six months of that real change because the players
hadn't adapted to the level yet. The following season, that injury spike to drop back down to basically normal, and then they bought it another rule change, and you sort of go through these ebbs and flows of real changes where it takes a bit of an adaptation period before the players can get used to it, and then they sort of get it used to it.
That's just one perspective as well.
Yeah, mate, Yeah, I definitely agree. I couldn't.
Yeah, I mean yeah, it's a it's a it's a tough one. I'm sure some some really good data might come out at the end of the year. I'm sure there's smarter people than than us that are are definitely than me, definitely punching the numbers, and you might be able to point to something really meaningful at the end of the year that we can all kind of create interventions from or it might just feed the norm. Yeah, let's let's wait to see one hundred.
Mate.
Thank you so much for your time today. Obviously a wealth and knowledge there across what you what you're currently doing at the private facility with igh performed lab, some of your experience in professional sport, and obviously what you're
doing there at the nights as well. Mate, So thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us, for everyone who's listening and would maybe like to learn little bit more about what you're doing privately, but also to just following you along what you do a little bit as well. Where would be the best place for them to follow you?
Mate?
Oh mate, Well, first of thanks to you guys, I mean athletes will throw you guys are leading away, especially in our country with some of the content you guys are throwing out, and you know, just I know locking personally, he's if I've got a question, he is so open and honest, and yeah, you guys are doing such a great job. So you know, hats off to you. It's it's it's you guys need to be recognized for the
great job you guys are doing as well. If you do want to follow some of the stuff I'm doing, it's I perform Lab is the page to follow if you did have a question or you know, you wanted just to reach out and say today or whatnot, Hello at our perform lab dot com is my email. So yeah, if I if I either Matthew joh Man undet back to you straight away, but I'll certainly get back to you.
And yeah, thanks mate, awesome, Thanks again, mate, and looking forward to continuing to see the excess of I Perform Lab and hopefully mate and you we make a good, strong run in the back end.
Of the year as well.
Yeah, let's see.
I thinks Cross not not as good as the roosters. That's the plane. Ah, good jeez, brother,