Hey, this is Sandy. And Randy? And we're here on AT Corner. Being an Athi trainer comes with ups and downs, and we're here to showcase it all. Join us as we share our world in sports medicine. Welcome back to another episode of AT Corner. For this week's episode we have a story episode on possibly the maybe the dark side, or at least maybe the one of the more stressful sides of the job that someone that all clinicians I think have had to battle. Actually only 99%, according to
our poll 99%. See, so most a TS have had to battle with this in some form. And what is that difficult? Coaches. Yes, I feel like everyone has at least had to deal with one one that's extremely difficult. Except for the 1%, there was one percent. 1% of our poll on our Instagram stories said that they have never worked at the difficult coach before. The One Percenters. Yeah. Oh, what a life to live.
I also asked though in general how people felt about their current coaching staff and the slider was actually very positive. Oh, that's good. Yes. So what I took that to mean is in the course of your career, you are going to come across some conflict with coaches. Yep, you're going to have a few difficult coaches here and there, but not all coaches are
difficult. So I, I put that purposely in the beginning of this episode because I I feel like it's so easy to fall in the trap of like, coach is this, coach is that. But some coaches are great. Yeah. And well, you know, it's the one aspect of it is like most of the complaining is always on the difficult coach. So all you hear is like, oh, the coach is just difficult. You don't hear of all the maybe ones that aren't difficult, right? Just that are just kind of even like kind of neutral.
And then you really don't hear a ton about the the coaches that are amazing, right, that you love working with. You just sit there, kind of focus on the, oh, this coach, you know, just the, the venting sessions.
Right, like I, one of my coaches, one of my football coaches this season, he I gave him a list of people who were out for the game and he came to my office and he was like, Hey, I just wanted preface, there are some guys who you listed as out who I am going to dress, but I am not going to play.
And I'm telling you this because I want you to know that I'm not going behind your back and I hear you and I know that they're out, but for team morale and so for some other things and leadership on the team, they need to be dressed. And I can't tell you how much I appreciated that. Yeah, that's really nice. See, that's the thing that I that I appreciate is just the conversation. Absolutely. Like the respect, yes, and the communication. Absolutely.
And you just don't get that with everyone. And so this episode is specifically about working with those difficult coaches, but with the caveat and the a giant asterisk that not all coaches are like this. These are we're just talking about the percentage of coaches that can be a little difficult. Yes, and even like our favorite coaches can be difficult, right? We we haven't had have we had an episode on favorite coaches? We should we should do the flip
side of this one time. Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah, I'm down, Yeah. Because no one ever talks about that. Yeah. No one talks about how great their coaches are. Everyone again, it's just the venting session like oh, that's. So easy to vent. It's so easy. That was really nice though. Yeah, your coach, that was. Awesome. OK, So what are some things that make it hard to work with coaches? I think there's two big ones for me and I think 1, is this just
the communication aspect that? Is #1 actually that's that's the number one answer that we got was the lack of communication. And it's, it's honestly the communication part is just like logistics, like a practice change. The thing that that that's that's interesting is like it had to get communicated somehow that practice changed. Right, that like the the athletes know. Yeah, everyone else knew. Why didn't I know, right? And So what, where like where's that divide of like just adding
one more number, right, right. So I think that one's kind of tough because it does kind of like, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it does throw a wrench into plans, right? Like especially if you're trying to plan your day well, you're like, oh, well, you know, I have this team practicing late at night, so I have to push my schedule.
And then all of a sudden you come to find out they didn't practice or they moved practice and then you're there at night with no one there and it's like 1. I either could have went home, or I could have adjusted my schedule to be there earlier and handle other things and. Right. So I think that's a big one just because it's just kind of like, oh, I feel it again, It's not. I don't ever think it's like purposeful. I don't think they're like, oh, we're not going to tell you right. I it's.
Just you don't know some. Yeah. But I like to think it's not egregious. It might be sometimes, right. But it's also it's like like you would expect it from us, like if we like if you were relying on us for something like a schedule wise like what if happened? What if we just changed physicals? So. Right. What if we just all of a sudden like, Oh no, physicals are this
time now? So there's OK, so actually before I get into it, we are going to finish talking about what makes it hard to work with some coaches. But I also did write in there what are some complaints about a TS that coaches have shared with. So OK, OK, OK. So anyway, second, second most common response we got for some things that make it hard to work with coaches was not listening to recommendations.
I think I mean for sure that would bug me a lot, but like I've never had someone not listen, I've just had arguments over it and that's the problem. I don't mind having a discussion, yes, like we can have a conversation about it and we can talk where you're coming from. Here's where I'm coming from. Where can we kind of meet in the middle? What works? But when you're having a just a flat out argument, like when I've had a coach like we literally argued over an X-ray,
I'm like, what? What are we doing? Yeah, you're like, I'm not arguing about your plays. Exactly, right. So it's just like I can have a conversation like with questions or well, what about this, What about that? I can work with that, right? It's the we're just going to argue because you want your way, 100% your way, even though here's why we can't do it that way. And now it's now we're getting
nowhere. I actually really appreciate the negotiation process because I feel like it makes both sides heard. I really, I really do like the negotiation process. I It's been a while since a coach has argued with me. I used to have some pretty bad coaches, but that was a while ago. I was, I haven't, yeah. I I was gonna say I haven't had like. I've been pretty lucky. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't had like an argument.
I've, I've, I have a coach somewhat recently in mind who has argued with me and gone to my boss with every single thing that I've done. But at the end of the day, he always listened. And so at the end of the day, I knew, I knew that I was always going to like he knew that what I said had value. So it just it, it made it easier I guess, but some people don't have. I think it's just also the nuances of just learning different people. Yeah, weird communication,
communicating with humans. Another one people wrote was last minute schedule changes. Yeah, because I mean that's. Sports. Yeah. Is it just sports? It's just. Again, if it's communicated right and obviously there's a reason, right. I mean, now if the granted, if they did a last minute change for no apparent reason or like the reasons like really OK, I get that that would be a little frustrating, but I think a lot of that last minute changes comes down to just communication.
Right. I just put this in. So this first story we got was honestly just a Horror Story. Like just like, what would you do? This one's anonymous, they said. Our swim coach blamed me for not clearing his kids from concussions when it is legally the team physician's job. Much later I found out he was making the kids do workouts which is why their symptoms were lasting of. Course that's wild. And I mean. But that is a Horror Story. That's a Horror Story. Right, exactly.
It's and. How do you deal with that? That's a hard question to answer. That's what we're going to try to answer, yeah. Yeah. Do your best. Yeah, honestly, it's just do your best. A lot of this. It. When I was when I was kind of going through and, and looking at all the different responses and kind of like thinking about like the coaches that I've worked with and kind of like, you know, going back and just reflecting. It's mostly conflict resolution. Yeah, that's true.
And personality, understanding personalities. I think the biggest thing that I am going to take away and the I think the the thing I'm going to keep saying over and over throughout this episode is that relationships are a two way St. Yeah, that's huge. And there are two perspective. There's a reason why there's two perspectives. Yes. And the reason why I put in that question about some complaints about a TS is because I feel like we also think that our word is it like that's it.
And I I don't think that we have enough perspective and understanding for the other side. It's. True, Yeah, I think the The thing is, is like for me, that's why I like no matter what I talk to the athlete, I want to know what the athlete wants, because that's the more important thing that I'm looking for, right, Whether they want to play or whether they don't want to play,
right. And then I kind of get, you know, again, I want coach to feel hurt and I want to see what their aspect is because again, they have a job to do too, right? Yeah, they're just doing their job right. So yeah, it it is, it is a two way St. and just trying to get their perspective on what they need. Like how?
How? Frustrating would it be for you if you're trying to do a rehab and your rehab tools that work the best keep getting taken away or keep breaking for some reason and someone keeps telling you that you can't use them and except that it's a competition of who can get. Yeah, yeah. No for sure. Back the fast like it's literally like yes, you are just the messenger but. But. It gets it gets lost in translation.
But also too, I think that's the difference between certain coaches, like the ones who understand that is where you have a great relationship, right? Because they have, I think they can perceive the fact that oh, my person's not like at 100% or close to 100%. They're at like 50 percent, 60%, right? They realize the investment that they're putting into it of well, I'm not getting anything out of them right now.
Why would I delay that? And for might not force them, but like put them in a position where I'm pressing too much, right? Putting them in a position where they can make it worse. And now I have to deal with it longer instead of taking the time and the investment of doing some kind of modification, whether it's out or just
modifying or limiting, right? I think that those relationships, I think that's where you have a good relationship, whereas I think the ones where you do have that difficulty are the, I don't want to say it's like an old school way of thinking, but I feel like it is an old school way of thinking of just like you push and push and push.
And the next thing you know, this person who was at 60 that if we would have just taken like just a few days or a week or whatever and would have been fine and been able to perform at their peak sooner is now performing still at like 60 or 70. And we're at week two, week 3. And then and then you see the frustration of like, why aren't
they getting better, right? I think that's where the difficulty lies is just not being able to perceive that point of it of I'm investing this time now to get the back end of it. And again, athletics isn't like a linear thing, right? There are going to be times where games are kind of important and like if this person can go, we kind of need them to go right or we may not have games in the like later on. So that does play a role as
well. I think also a good coach will recognize and not take out their frustrations on you, even though the frustrations are being communicated by you. For sure. Without like a good coach will be able to draw that line, but not every coach is going to be able to, which is what's hard. But anyway, going back to what some complaints are about a TS, again giving perspective.
So some coaches are saying that a TS some a TS are not flexible, too conservative with treatment, quick to hold people out. I mean, you kind of see the more the the bottom line, yeah. For sure. I think, I think some of that too, yeah, they're not flexible thing. Yeah, there are definitely some that, you know, you kind of like for me, how I look as it's how much I trust the coach. Like if I can trust the coaching staff, I'm willing to work with
them a little bit more. Whereas if I don't trust. If you have a swim coach who's just going to do things behind your back, then you have to be a little bit more. Exactly. I'm going to be probably more rigid and not really give you much, right? So I think it, I think that does come down to how much that person trusts the coaching staff. I think too sometimes too, I wonder if experience plays a role. Experience from coaches or.
Experience from the AT aspect like a a young AT compared to like a young professional or newly certified compared to someone who's been practicing 10/15. Years I got to say something that I've noticed when I was when I was working a lot of per diem and when I was working in my first year or two certified, a lot of the coaches kept saying things like, Oh, I've seen like way more of this than you have
or like stuff like that. And I remember like taking that so offensively and, and being so frustrated, like I'm the athletic trainer, Like why, why is it like this? I don't understand why they think they're better than I am. But honestly, they've been around, they've seen like other athletic trainers handle these things.
They've seen like docs make the same decisions over and over again and over the same injuries, even though sometimes like, I know, we know you can't cookie cutter injuries, but like, from their perspective, like they're seeing the same outcome over and over and over again. So then they make those connections and think, you know, this is how it goes. So to them, they think they have
that knowledge. And so it's it's just again, looking at that perspective and seeing what and and valuing like, yes, validating, yes, you know, you may have seen this before, but there's a little bit more to the story than then you might be seeing. For sure. They're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and they're thinking they're seeing the whole thing. For sure. Yeah, no, I, I agree. I and I I think too like the quick to hold people out thing. Like I, I get it from from that
standpoint. Like you, you don't want it to be like, well, every time they say complain about something, they're held out right, Even though, like, I don't know, most a TS I talk to like it's not that. Like obviously if someone comes in sore, we're not just going to be like, oh, hey, you're out right. So I think it's it's just like certain things. And then it's like it's that trend that you think you see in your mind, like, Oh, well, this person got held down this person
right. And I, and I think another thing about perspective, I think it's hard because it's like, if they keep going with like an, an, an injury, right? Like actual tissue damage, right? Like it's not just going to like miraculously get better, right? You can make it worse or it's going to slow it down.
And again, it goes back to that frustration thing because you're going to be like in a difficult coach situation, you're going to be frustrated if they're taking out, but then you're going to be frustrated when they're not getting better. Like you it, it's going to be a trade off. And that's why like the education piece. And again, if it's a difficult coach, you can communicate as much as you want and maybe they don't hear it right.
That that is something too is sometimes when you have a conversation with a coach or anyone, anyone but I'm obviously talking about coach right now, you have to understand if they are communicating to listen or communicating or I'm not communicating, if they're in the conversation to listen or if they're in the conversation to be heard. Because sometimes you can say the perfect words over and over and over again and it will not hit for them.
Yeah, unless they're ready to hear it and ready to. It's like the same thing. Like when you were a kid and your mom told you something over and over again. And then like your dad told you or like your friend told you, and then it just hit different. Like they, you could say the exact same thing, but it's not necessarily about what you say. Sometimes it's about that person on the other side being able to hear it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, sure. You want to read this anonymous
one? Yeah, so Anonymous says. My most recent difficult coach was our softball coach. He was a struggle. He liked me, but he just didn't like my profession. This was. Common too. I would actively not try to limit his kids because I knew they weren't going to listen anyways because they were scared of him. Oh, see, that one's tough. Yeah, for any coach like that. But their kids needed to be limited. I always told them to limit your number of reps per drill, not
limit your effort. But the more I communicated with him about serious stuff and attempted to keep his kids active some way, he eventually broke down and we had a better relationship. It took about four years. I see it, it shows it can. It can get better.
It's not always impossible. I think the longer you work with someone, the more OK actually take that back because it's I think you know how they say like practice makes perfect but but then like someone reworded it to actually like practice makes permanent or like practice makes progress. I think it depends on what your practice looks like. Like if you keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, that's the definition of insanity Inspection change,
right? But if you are actively working towards the solution or actively trying to see the other person's perspective and they are also trying to see your perspective, it can get better. It just both parties have to be open to it, yeah. I think the time thing, you know, like you said like it just the longer you work with someone, you just kind of get used to it and you and hopefully each party's trying to find a way right to make it better.
Well, that's what I'm saying. Like it's not just time because you could work with someone. For the year and it. Might not change. So I did ask, in your experience after working with difficult coaches for a while, does it get better, worse or does it usually not change? Most people, 55%, said it does not change with that coach. Interesting. Followed by 32% said it usually gets better. OK. And only 14% said it gets worse with that coach. At least that's the minority. Right.
So about according to our poll, according to the people who actually responded, you know, about 1/3 of the time it does get better. That's good. I mean, I guess, I guess it not changing it isn't that bad because then at least you know what you're going to get, right. So like your expectation, you know what's going to happen, right? Right. It's not like all of a sudden, gosh, this guy's getting worse, right? Like so at least you know what
to expect. Right. Chris H says there was 0 respect for the professional athletic training. My boss and I basically just had to wait this coach out. Luckily he end up leaving for another job, but now I'm in a great spot. In the meantime I just keep things. I just kept things professional and remembered who I ultimately serve, and that's my outfit. Yeah, at the end of the day, that's what it that's what it like it boils down to, right.
We're trying to protect them. And you know, the The thing is too, like I think some athletes like, because like more than likely a difficult coach with you probably is like probably treats the athletes different. I don't want to say poor, but like just treats them differently, right? So even some of the athletes kind of realize like, yeah, this guy's kind of different or like this coach is kind of difficult
to work with. So they kind of know too, because it it's probably been reflected towards them as well in some capacity. So I I feel like they kind of have an understanding. So when they realize that you're trying to help them out, all right, I, I, I think that helps with the decision making process because then the hopefully the athletes feel comfortable with you.
Because I know for me, like the biggest thing is like, I can tell when an athlete's kind of like, I really don't want to play, but I feel scared to say something. That's why I give them that Ave. and like, look, I'll be the one to say you can't play. Like that's fine. I just want to make sure you're OK with the decision. So they can blame me. They can say, Oh, Randy said, that's fine. I just wanted them to make the
decision. So they're essentially making this decision without going to the coach saying like, oh, I just don't want to play. And they just get to, I get to be the one like, Oh yeah, coach, they're done today or 'cause now it's me who's saying it, not necessarily them. So I like that. I, I like to give that space to the athletes. So that helps helps for me.
I think it depends on the coach because, and it depends on the athlete for sure, because sometimes it's more beneficial in my experience to have the athletes pull themselves so that the coaches realize like, oh, this is actually really bothering them. For sure. Like and it depends on, it depends on the athlete because it like and you have the athlete who always pulls themselves. Right, I think it depends on that relationship between the two. Right, right.
I usually give the coach a heads up if it's something that I'm worried about getting worse. Yeah. Or like if they're going to play through this, like, no, it's like, not a good idea. Or if it's I and I, I use this analogy a lot and not a lot. Like there's a there's a fine line between tough and stupid. Yeah. And right now, they're riding the stupid end. Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.
So the rest of the episode I kind of just we have we got a lot of like different ways to like handle. Oh nice. Like difficult coaches, I thought a a long time about how I wanted to put together this episode and I kind of there in athletic training in general, there's no one-size-fits-all. So I think what I'm trying to achieve with this is a lot of these things, like we're going to give like a blanket advice and some examples of them, but we're also kind of give some like pros and cons.
Yeah, for sure. And some back and forth and some perspective. So that is my, that is my goal, like with some of these. So like for one, like a lot of people said, you know, go straight to whatever's causing that conflict. So I'm gonna give you an example of how that happened. Yeah. OK, so this person said a challenge that my preceptor and I faced was at a private all boys high school during football. My preceptor has had just been hired and was the only AT on site.
Before her they didn't have anyone else in house. They only had PRNATS for many years, so the kids and coaches were both trying to get used to having an AT around. Once athletes learned that they could come see us, instead of sitting out the rest of practice or seeing their doctor due to pain, they came to us for treatment. One of the coaches began to assume that their athletes were quotes faking injuries to hang out with the nice ladies.
It was actually, it actually escalated to the point where we overheard the coach telling the boys that they were not allowed to come see us unless they talked to him first, were bleeding or had a bone sticking out. The coach even came into the ATR and kicked out athletes that he didn't think were hurt enough to be in there. Yeah, that's not respectful at all. That was the final straw. We sat down and we had a
conversation with him. He was fairly receptive and did not quotes triage injuries before allowing the kids to come see us after that. That's good. It was my first time standing up to a coach for my athletes. I admired how my preceptor handled the situation so that it was resolved and the AT coach relationship wasn't ruined in the first season working together. That's good. At least they were receptive.
Right again, two way St. And again, I, I could see the for them not knowing like they've never been exposed to that probably, right. So I can see the confusion, right? I think the drawback is like, OK, what if that person wasn't receptive? Now where do we go, you know? I had a coach who I was treating someone at a game and I think I was like rolling out their hamstring or something like that, like with like a little
stick for more. And the coach got on the floor in front of my table and started whining and pretending to cry like they were the kid and then told them to get off the table because they weren't hurt. Oh. That's so we that coach and I had a conversation. Yeah, that's cool. And. It never happened again. That's good. Because they were receptive, yeah.
But I've also had coaches who have not been receptive, like when I was trying to take, I had some athletes who had some concussion, too many concussion symptoms that I was like, yeah, I just need to watch this. Like I'm not deeming this an official concussion yet, but I just like it's uncomfy. It's like on that line and the coach didn't agree with me, unfortunately, which not their call anyway.
Yeah. So they actually called out when we were using, we were using SCAT 5 at the time they were, they called out the SCAT 5 and said that it wasn't validated for use in that population, which was a lie. And they refused to believe if there were any, like if I had
pulled anyone for a concussion. So I end up talking to the official and 'cause it's a game and I just said basically like, like at this point, like I've talked to the coach, I the, the head of the tournament thing was backing me, but they weren't like on site. So it's not like they could really do much. So the the official just said if there's anyone you need to pull, I'll pull.
Them nice, That's cool. So I didn't mean to go into it right now 'cause I do wanna talk about it, but basically, like this story was about going straight to the source, right? Yeah, for sure. And, and sometimes you can do that, but again, like, sometimes you can't. Yeah. So it depends on the situation. Actually, Kirsten M said it would depend on the situation.
But typically I would try to work with athletes and possibly the coaching staff on expectations and emphasizing that we want them to keep them playing as much as possible. If it's a coach issue, I've done it in a few ways. First is dropping into their office, not to catch them off guard, but more so that we can have an honest conversation and not build up to it. Yeah. Which I, I kind of liked how she said that, yeah.
However, if I don't know them well, I've taken it as a moment to meet with each coach individually so it doesn't feel like awkward when I ask for an individual conversation. And so I remember that I've hit specific points with everyone and I always talk. Oh of course, if it's the athletes, I would probably talk to the coaches 1st and see if
they can work from the inside. If I know it's someone specific, I might try and have a conversation either formally in a meeting or try to catch them before or after practice, always making sure I start the conversation so I'm not accusing anything. And I'm curious if we can find ways to work together. That's the hard part, is not accusing. That is so hard. That's the hard part. You know, people really respond to the way that you, you talk. Yeah.
And I think that's also why it's also perceived to that it's so difficult to work with coaches sometimes because of coaching personalities. Like in order to be a coach, you kind of have to be able to stand up and fight for, you know, your position. And, and that's like, that's also like how they talk to officials and how they talk to other coaches and how like how they talk to their athletes. And sometimes it's just the nature of sports in general.
Not that it makes it OK at all to like for that to be like a workplace conversation, but just like, again, perspective. I have been doing a lot of self reflection with this because sometimes like I so I talk very direct and like I every time that I meet with students, like when I first meet them, I always tell them like I talk very direct and sometimes I don't catch it. So sometimes I don't mean for it to come off very short and very like snappy in my head.
It's not that, but now, and sometimes I'll catch it when I see the response of of whoever I'm talking to because like I'm just trying to get things done right. Like it's just quick. Like most of the time it's football and you know, we don't have time to like dilly dally. And so like I'm just trying to get things done. That's how I communicate. I'm not really one to hold your hand and paint flowers and you know, whatever Mushigoshi stuff it just got, it just got to happen.
So I expressed that so that they know that it's not them. It's literally like that's how it's gonna come out of my mouth. So and I tell them like in the moment, if I notice it, I will like catch it and I will try to try to adjust. But sometimes like, because it's so natural and I don't notice it, like I need, I need communication.
If that, if that direct communication style isn't working for you and I need you to tell me if you think that I'm mad at you because I will blatantly and bluntly tell you if I'm upset with you. Like it's, I'm not hiding it at all. So I don't want you to think that what you did is bad. So, and I think that can also go with like coaches is like sometimes like they come in and they say things. They're not like these spokespeople. It's not like we work with like.
Yeah. People who are really good with words, like, I mean, they're coaches, right? Like that's not what they are doing in life, right? So I think sometimes, like, words can be a big barrier, tone can be a big barrier, and it's not actually what people mean. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, for sure. I agree. So I mean, they're like, again, perspective. Do you want to read this one from Lorena? Yes, this one's by Lorena T I believe in most conflict you have to look at is this a personality issue?
Is this a misunderstanding? Is this a communication issue? Is this a values or philosophy issue? Communication is key because I believe no one truly wants conflict at their work. Yes, that would be weird. I want to raise issues today. I'm choosing. Violence. It's too nice here. But it does happen. You can't avoid it.
Coaches are also used to being able to have control of their little quote UN quote world, their assistant coaches and their players, their practice and game schedules, etcetera. So when injuries happen specifically to key players, that understandably throws them off. When an athlete gets hurt, the AT coach relationship could become antagonistic. They could be looking for something or someone to blame. However, I find reminding them injuries happen and it's not directly anyone's fault.
Most of the time and it's a part of the game, they are there. There are inherent risks in playing sports. I like to remind them I didn't break them and I didn't 'cause this injury. But I do have the skills and get to be the one that fixes them. Also remind them my objective and goal is to get the player back to playing as quickly and safely as possible, and that also includes returning them to play in a way that is beneficial to the team and for themselves.
Coaches want players who will help them win. A TS want players to be successful at their craft. Sometimes this common ground is lost in the conflict, so there's a lot of time back there. So my first one is that is true. Injuries happen. A normal injury rate pretty much for teams is you can expect about 1/4 of your team to be hurt at any one time. That's a lot. That is a normal like that is normal, like literature shows that, but that is normal. So again, it happens.
People get hurt. Oh, what a Oh yeah, the control part. Like that is one thing coming from like the Track World is what really apparent. Like I'm like, I'm sure other coaches are kind of like that, but I feel like track is really invested in that idea because you also have like it's not only like like just a coaching staff for for track, right? You have the jumps coach, you have the sprints coach, right, who just practice on their own.
They're never really with the team depending on the team that you're with, right? Most time they're just kind of at their own schedule. So they control, like there's just so much control for that, like that individual event coach that yeah, they get used to that. And I feel like too like a sport, like track, like it's not such a mainstream sport. So it's especially coming up from like high school and like lower levels, right? It's not like like at high school, right?
Especially in California, right? There's one AT if there's an AT, right, right. And in the fall, like more likely the high school has football and football's. Would you say football's a handful? That's a little bit of a handful. Right, So like attention's kind of directed towards football and you know, like say cross country, like they feel like, oh, no one cares about us. Well, no, it's just you had one AT for everybody and there's football, right?
So so they get in this mindset of like, oh, well, we have to be able to take care of ourselves, right. So, and I think that just like, again, coming from like a track aspect that I've seen for sure, like track coaches having that just like mindset of they have to control almost every aspect. And again, some of it too. Like again, I get the mindset because they're trying to control everything to like they have that one athlete that they have to like tune up.
It's like trying to tune up a Ferrari, right? Well, if you had a Ferrari, would you want anyone else trying to work on your Ferrari, right? You're going to be very particular, right? So I have. To trust you. Exactly. If you have someone who has a lot of conflict, that is hard to trust. Exactly right. So I. Feel like it's just, it's just cyclical. Yeah. So, so again, like that, that control part, like yes, like seeing it from the track perspective, like I know what that means.
Like I have seen that. This next one's actually perfect for that. Another anonymous having the ability to develop a relationship in offseason slash outside of work. Whenever we have a new coach, especially when it's not a fall sport, I try to get to know them slash stop by just to say hi so our first real conversation isn't when I have to deliver bad news. It also took me a good ten years to be OK with the fact a difficult coach might have a bad reaction to a situation, but
it's not me they're upset with. Sure. When I think of this, I think of there there are some coaches who have may for maybe have forgotten to like tell me that practice is running late today or like they're doing a long practice day. And like, yeah, it's super frustrating when they do that or when they don't communicate about like. Something else, right?
That's or they don't take their Med kit or like something that's like super frustrating or they don't value, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, fill in the blank. But then I remember all of these coaches who I still like at the end of the day, right? At the end of the day, they can do annoying things and I still like them. You can do annoying things and people can still like you.
For all those people pleasers out there, which is really hard to be a people pleaser athletic trainer because you are not in a people pleasing job. You're actually quite in the opposite. But I think just having that perspective that they are not mad at you. They are mad at the situation, they are mad at the decision, they are mad at the whatever frustration they have, right? But they are not unless you are really doing something numerous
times. Yeah. Or you just guys don't just don't get along, but like. Yeah, yeah, No, I, I like that like developing a relationship, like outside of like the work aspect, like not necessarily like outside where like you don't have to hang out with your coach, right. But still like anytime, like I try to at least have like just a normal conversation with them, like just to get to know them because I, I do want to get to know them. We're going to spend a lot of
time together. You're Co workers. You are Co workers, so like I do like to have like a good conversation with them, right? And again, that's true. It's like, so it's not like every time I talk to you, I just have bad news. Right, some other advice we got, Kenzie K said. Documenting also just being around more so the coach can't hide stuff or so the athletes can see that I want to help versus listening to the coach saying they should avoid me. For sure.
That is such a culture like, so like for example, our one of the places I used to work, our baseball field was like, I don't know, a decent walk away from our athletic trainer. Like it's like you could walk to it, but it was like it was, it took you a few minutes. And during the spring we really didn't have too many sports. So it was really easy to when there was nothing going on in ATR, like I could make my way
down to baseball practice. And that was really nice because because the walk was again, a decent walk, some of the guys wouldn't come into the ATR unless they like really needed something, right. So for the most part, like they're probably like they have to go out of their way to go to the athletic team. So because of that, when I went to practice, like there was, I saw so many more people. And because of that, they also started realizing like they can
come to me for things. And then coaches seeing that like, oh, I'm, I'm doing things for them, right? I'm keeping them out there. I'm answering their questions. He can hear instead of just like, you know, 'cause we get to see coaches coach a lot. Coaches don't really get to see us excel in our craft. A. Lot for sure, right? So. What is the date? They don't know. They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Yep. Right. So you kind of have to, like,
show it a little bit. Yeah. And then it will build over time. For sure. And again, according to our poll, it will most likely get better. You have a chance or stay the same. Yeah, you have a chance of getting. Better right? Most I I should? Say on the minority end. Most likely it will not get worse. It's a it's it's a smaller chance that it'll get worse. OK, so I left this on a little bit later because and I put going straight to the source
first. The next kind of like point is to go to your supervisor or not to go to your supervisor. And I think again, we can't make blanket statements here. I don't even know if I will make a recommendation here. I'm going to again show all sides and maybe I I mean I'll share what I do. Yeah. But again, why don't we just share? Here's here's one side. So here's Anonymous I worked with difficult coaches trying to manage injuries, hide injuries or eating disorders from behind my back.
And one that did those things had previously been an AT OH. That's crazy. Coaches Coaches who have been previously an ATI think those are some of the hardest to work with. Yes. Anyway, that coach even tried pushing one of our female orthos into a corner to clear someone. I made the mistake of trying to handle it on my own and not going to my supervisor because I was afraid he would think that I wasn't capable of handling
things. Some occasions I did go to the my supervisor, but for this one I didn't. This specific supervisor was fantastic, though he did often lean towards coach pleasing. Some advice, talk to mentors and at the end of the day, do what's right, not what will be popular or agreeable to them. Yeah, yeah. I think it's so level specific too on who you exactly go to.
Like because of just the intricacies of supervisors cause like like high school and maybe like Community College, right, you share a supervisor with the coaches as well. So they're all kind of your supervisor, whereas if you're at a larger institution, right? Well, technically your supervisor, yes, the AD is your supervisor, but definitely not your direct supervisor. So more than likely you have your like director of sports medicine, right?
Which being like being in that role, like for sure, if there's a problem, especially something like this that we're hiding things for sure that your supervisor needs to know, like from a, a program standpoint. So like if you're have a director of sports medicine, right, that should be kept in the loop because if something's going on and they're asked about it, they should know or they shouldn't be like, oh, what, what? Oh, that's weird.
I didn't know that right. All right, like especially because that supervisor may also be in a position to handle that then necessarily like the team AT not saying the team AT couldn't, right. But I would say, like, in my role as a supervisor, I wouldn't want them to feel like they had to handle that on their own. So Christina S says I utilize my AD and admin more if I think there's ever going to be something that will cause an issue.
For example, I'll e-mail them if a certain player gets injured that a coach might be upset about so that they can back me. So what I take from this is more like don't go to your supervisor as like a tattletale or like come save me. Like I think, I think what's helpful when going to your supervisor is exactly what Christina is saying, like kind of like a giving them a heads up or giving them like a perspective. Yeah, giving them the whole side of the story so they can be prepared.
Also so that they can trust you. Because I know, like, think to their perspective, like the AD is not going to want to be like blindsided by this conflict or like, oh, how come you didn't tell me, right? And it's not necessarily like you're going to them like, hey, like I'm not able to fix this. It's more of like a, hey, I just want to let you know what's going on. Like here's what I'm doing. Yeah, that's the interesting thing.
Again, I think it's like, again, that's the interesting thing, just seeing the different levels like, yeah, because like you share it like at like Community College, high school, you share a supervisor. So I could see like, I don't know, it feels foreign to me to tell my AD, hey, this is this is the situation. This person's being held out like, This is why like, like knowing that this situation is probably going to get the coach upset or frustrated or like,
right. Whereas like like the university level, because there's such a separation between the AD and the like the athletic training staff, like I've never seen it to where like the only time that I would see where the AD needed to really know is if it was an emergency, like some kid getting sent to the ER and would want it, like would at least want to be briefed on, hey, just a heads up, this kids went to the ER.
And then also if it's a career end and it's a scholarship athlete, because the school is still paying for that person, whether they're participating or not. That was really the only time that they really wanted to know, like what's going on with this person. Well, I don't think it's necessarily like it down to the injury. Yeah, I I I think more of like a hey, AD, there's like this happened with this coach or like this this situation is is occurring and I'm handling it.
But here is like why I think this is possibly going to be a problem. OK, I OK, I see, I see where it's coming from now. OK, Yeah, I see. I see where it's coming from now. So Jen B, do you want to read this one from Jen B? Yes, so, Jen says. I constantly have communication issues with a few of my coaches. One coach is a bit easier to deal with overall, but it's because he's a jerk to everyone, so you know to not take offense with things he says or does.
Sometimes it's a mindset, yeah. Apparently he's also come around a bit the last few years. Oh, he's getting softer. My other coaches are a bit more of a problem because they won't say a complaint to me so I can fix it. That is frustrating. So this is actually the opposite side like what I'm talking about. Yeah, they will go straight to my AD or make underhanded comments around players who come tell me it's gotten slightly
better over the years. The head coach isn't so bad anymore and I try to avoid the assistant that causes the most problems if possible. That's weird Norma, it's the opposite. I feel like my experience, the assistants are pretty dope. Actually I have not like when I've had conflicts not recently, but like that previous places. I know one. I have had I've had some pretty not good assistants. It's interesting. Yeah, which and the and the head coaches were much. Better. That's interesting.
It's just frustrating that I feel like it's on me to make the changes even though most involved know the coaches are the actual issue. I also think coaches think we work for them and not with them. It leads them to think there's some kind of authority over us or that we answer to them. I think that also changes how they perceive our opinion. So this, I've been waiting for this entire episode.
Yeah. Because when I one of my last jobs, when I, when I first met with my athletic director, that was something that she ended on was just at the end of the day, remember that these are your Co workers, like the coaches are your Co workers. And I think I had never had someone put it to put it that way. And I really appreciated the way that she had worded that for sure. And that she had reminded me of that, which also she was reminding the coaches of that
for sure. And I think that's why. So this story actually earlier when Jen was talking about the the coaches will go straight to my ID or make underhanded comments around players. So like, this is I think why people are also scared to go to AD because or their boss or whoever you're you know who you who you talk to because it seems like you're like going there to tattletale.
But I think if you if you don't go there with the intention of like, hey, this coach is being like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I think if you again, just give it as a courtesy heads up rather than like a, hey, you need to, you need to talk to this coach because this is what's happening. Yeah, for sure. Like still take care of your business, still go straight to
the source. Again, we're not making a blanket statement here but like for some situations like you can go straight to the coach and but still loop in your athletic director for sure or boss for sure. And lastly, we just have some advice from Whitney C. She says stand your ground and know what you were talking about. Be passionate, don't bend. Sure there's compromise but it goes both ways.
If you have a rule, for example, 24 hour notice for schedule changes, stick to it. If you bend for one coach they will take advantage. Easier said than done, but you don't have to please everyone. It will run you dry. Take care of yourself and don't feel guilty about it. Yep, I agree. I agree. Yeah, it's always easier to say no early and then say yes later than it is to say yes now and then try to go back on. That, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
I think that's the biggest thing is, you know, there is a difference between like, like standing your ground and and not bending and then compromise. I think there is a difference, right? Like you can still compromise and still not bend. I think you need to know when to stand your ground. I think that's, I think that's one of the things that I feel like we talk about a lot is, you know, people say like, oh, you need to communicate, you need to
communicate. And then like communication is so important, but people don't know how to communicate, even though like it's so important, but it's because that's all we say is like communicate, communicate. But it's like, well, how do you communicate? No one really talks about how you communicate or what's expected. The same thing like stand your ground is people are very like, oh, don't let people don't let
coaches walk all over you. But then you end up being not flexible and then and then when you're not flexible, then it creates conflict. And so I think, I think there's got to be an understanding and it's going to take some trial and error, but trying to figure out when like what hills to die on or when, what battles to fight like which you don't need to fight every battle, you will not survive. And also, you probably won't win the next battle that you want to
actually win. If you're battling everything, then people are just going to and get trenched in and they're not willing to work with you because you're not willing to work with them. So that's why the compromise part is still important. But you could still stand your ground and still compromise. You don't have to necessarily compromise on standing your ground, right? Those it's not like one or the other, right?
So that's the thing. So I don't feel like just because you have to compromise something that like, oh, I'm not standing my ground. No, you can still stand your ground, but there can still be compromised within that. So action item, try to understand, try, try to understand the other party's perspective and their personality. Oh, I didn't even, I didn't get all my soapbox about personality. I could literally talk about personality all day long, and my students know that. Yes.
And what motivates you? Yeah, true. Just you just have to look at the other perspective. I think we're so like, oh, but this is what's right. Like we have to take this person out because of this, but not everyone has the same knowledge that we do. So take the time to educate, take the time to negotiate even, even even if the negotiation is just literally hearing out the other party because sometimes that's all they need and validating conflict resolution. That's all it is.
Easier said than done, though. Yes, we can stand here behind. We can sit here behind some mics and tell you that it's not that bad to work with difficult coaches, but really? No, it's stressful. Yeah, it's. It's not that fun. But then you get the good ones, the really, really good ones, and make it all worth it. So yes, please send in your stories about really good coaches. Maybe we'll maybe we'll do that
pretty soon. If you guys are new, we do every episode as either stories, education episodes, or interview episodes. We have a few more in store for the rest of this year so make sure you stay tuned. If you're interested in some CU's, we do have some CU episodes. Some of them are free. Some of them are available very affordably through clinically pressed and athletic training chat. Big thank you to them. Make sure you check out our website. Check out our show notes down
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