The History of the Telecaster Thinline - Ask Zac 137

well hello friends and welcome to Ask
0:16
Zac today we're going to talk about the
0:18
Telecaster Thin Line we're going to talk
0:19
about how it came about we're going to
0:22
talk about the version one
0:24
and then we're going to talk about how
0:26
totally different the version 2 is like
0:28
this which of course has the wide range
0:30
humbuckers and bullet truss rod and
0:33
three bolt neck and a non-trimolo strat
0:35
Bridge we're going to talk about
0:37
all those things and why the wide range
0:41
pickups sound so different than a Gibson
0:43
humbucker and it's uh it's really
0:46
important and it's you know pretty
0:47
obvious when you look at the way they're
0:49
constructed
0:51
uh yeah we're going to talk about you
0:53
know the thin line through the years and
0:55
it's uh it's an original run from 68
0:58
through 78 and then how it kind of
1:01
gained popularity Through The Years some
1:03
of the guys that played them and we're
1:04
just going to have fun
1:06
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1:08
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1:23
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1:31
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right let's Dive In
1:36
so Fender started having issues with
1:39
heavy Telecaster bodies in 1967. now was
1:43
that an issue with the bean counters
1:46
that weren't speccing lightweight Ash
1:48
would they where they have to pay more
1:50
for that who knows but regardless they
1:53
had heavy Ash that they didn't want to
1:55
use for bodies because it was just too
1:57
heavy
1:58
so the guys thought well what if we
2:01
routed out some of the wood underneath
2:03
the pickguard so that's what they did
2:04
because it was something that could
2:06
easily be done and would be hidden
2:09
so this is a 67 tele it's not routed
2:12
underneath the pickguard but what they
2:14
did was they just you know when they
2:16
were you know initially doing the routes
2:18
they routed out this whole area
2:21
underneath the pickguard and just left a
2:22
little area where they could attach the
2:24
pickup
2:25
and what they found was that it was not
2:30
an enough you know wood removal to
2:32
really be of any type of significant you
2:34
know weight loss for the guitar
2:38
so they knew that they had to they were
2:42
going to have to do some retooling and
2:43
they were going to have to come out with
2:44
a new model because there just wasn't
2:46
enough that could be done on this guitar
2:48
without changing the design
2:52
so the decision was made to make a thin
2:55
line Telecaster so you know of course
2:58
Thin Line guitars were popular with uh
3:00
you know Gibson and so what they decided
3:03
you know like the 335 so they decided to
3:06
put an F hole on it
3:07
and then they they made the body just a
3:11
touch thinner
3:12
for a reason
3:14
but first they routed out an area
3:18
right here
3:20
quite large and then an area here and an
3:23
area here
3:24
then to cover it up they took a thin
3:28
piece of wood shaped like a Telecaster
3:31
and they put it on there and glued it on
3:33
I guess sometimes they call it I guess
3:35
you'd call it a veneer or a fillet
3:37
something like that and of course from
3:39
the top they did their normal routing
3:42
and then they also they routed out an
3:43
f-hole up here
3:46
um but otherwise it was kind of a normal
3:48
Telecaster it had the same Bridge same
3:50
Electronics uh it it did it lost the
3:54
plate so instead the the like the the
3:57
controls were mounted on a pickguard and
3:59
of course it got an elongated pick guard
4:01
that was perloid another interesting
4:04
feature was this was the first
4:05
Telecaster where the neck pickup was
4:08
mounted to the pickguard and not the
4:09
body so all Telecaster neck pickups had
4:12
all been mounted to the body before this
4:14
and so this was the first time Fender
4:16
experimented with that and they would
4:17
use it
4:18
later on with the American Standard
4:20
series and such
4:23
yeah the bodies were made from Ash or
4:25
mahogany and you know but the mahogany
4:29
was are much less common they're out
4:31
there and normally they were in a
4:33
natural finish and of course you can
4:36
really see the difference between the
4:38
mahogany and the ash
4:40
you know early 68 models would have had
4:43
a maple cap neck you know meaning no
4:46
skunk stripe on the back because it was
4:48
a two-piece neck or of course Rosewood
4:50
board which is much less common you you
4:53
see many more of the maple caps on the
4:55
early thin lines
4:57
uh yeah of course the earliest models
5:01
you know would probably have more of a
5:03
lacquer finish on body and neck and then
5:05
of course by late 68 you have the switch
5:08
over to
5:09
all pretty much all poly and of course
5:12
the loss of the cloth covered wires that
5:15
were in early 68 and you start seeing
5:18
um
5:18
plastic insulation covering on there
5:22
now here's where it gets really
5:25
interesting
5:26
so the price of a standard Telecaster in
5:28
1968
5:30
was 229 dollars now taking inflation
5:34
into account that'd be like two thousand
5:36
dollars in today's money this is 2022
5:38
when I'm shooting this video
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The Thin Line
5:43
was 319 dollars
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which taking inflation into account was
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twenty seven hundred dollars so you paid
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a seven hundred dollar up charge
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for a body that was partially hollowed
5:57
out and had a you know a you know a back
6:00
plate basically you know a a back fillet
6:03
of wood that was covering up where they
6:06
did the the routings and had of course a
6:09
prologue pickguard that's a huge
6:12
upcharge I'm sure there was more labor
6:14
involved in doing that but uh yeah it
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was interesting that Fender did that
6:20
that was kind of Savvy on their part and
6:23
then if anyone ever complained about you
6:25
know Telecaster being heavy well it's
6:28
like well here let us show you our new
6:30
Telecaster Thin Line
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it's you know
6:34
it's only a little bit more well you
6:37
know of course you know in today's money
6:39
700 and back then it would have been
6:41
about ninety dollars which would have
6:42
been a lot of money
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so uh yeah so the guitar doesn't really
6:47
uh you know in 68 you know it go then
6:50
you go into 69 69 you get Maple necks
6:54
come back so that's when you have uh you
6:56
know skunk Stripes you know come back
6:58
uh 70 the guitar is pretty much the same
7:01
71
7:03
you know 70 and 71 pretty much the same
7:06
till late 71 and that's when you get
7:09
version two
7:12
and this is a completely different
7:14
guitar
7:15
and the Heart of it are the wide range
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pickups
7:19
so the wide range pickups came about as
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Fender had hired Seth lover away from
7:26
Gibson
7:27
so Seth lover had designed the original
7:29
humbucker for uh for Gibson back in the
7:32
mid 50s and also he had designed other
7:34
pickups and amps and other designs for
7:36
Gibson as one of their main engineers
7:39
so they hired him away and you know it's
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been
7:43
speculated that that the reason Fender
7:46
hired him was they wanted him to make a
7:49
Gibson humbucker for them basically a
7:51
copy because the patent was supposedly
7:54
you know coming to an end
7:57
but uh
7:59
I'm you know I'm not sure whether that
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is true or not but we do know that Seth
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lover made a very different pickup it is
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very different in sound and it's very
8:08
different in construction so here's
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where we need to talk about humbucker
8:12
construction so you can understand the
8:15
huge difference between a Gibson
8:17
humbucker and a fender wide range
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humbucker so let's talk about the Gibson
8:22
pickup first so a Gibson humbucker has
8:27
pole pieces has 12 pole pieces that are
8:31
metal they're not magnets and then it
8:34
has the two bobbins and then underneath
8:36
it has a bar magnet
8:39
okay
8:43
the wide range fender humbucker
8:46
it has
8:48
pole pieces that are also magnets
8:51
okay so there's no bar magnet underneath
8:53
it because the pole pieces are the
8:55
magnets and that's because that's what
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Fender always did Leo Fender's guitars
9:01
were they always had the pull pieces
9:04
were the magnets he didn't have a
9:06
separate magnet underneath it and they
9:08
weren't adjustable
9:09
so this one had the pole pieces were the
9:13
magnets
9:14
very different also they wanted them to
9:18
be adjustable unlike other Fender
9:20
pickups they wanted them you know they
9:22
wanted the pull pieces to be adjustable
9:23
which meant that the magnets had to be
9:26
threaded so that you could you know
9:28
adjust them up and down
9:30
well that immediately also changed the
9:33
type of magnet that was used because
9:34
they couldn't use a regular alnaco 2 or
9:37
elnico 5 or 3 or whatever Gibson was
9:39
using at that point
9:41
and they had to use a new you know
9:43
magnet that was called kunif and so this
9:46
was a combination of copper and nickel
9:49
and kind of a ferrite you know ceramic
9:51
magnet
9:52
and that is you know that was the only
9:56
one that could be threaded and so that's
9:58
why they used it so that's another you
10:01
know big contributor to a very different
10:02
sound
10:04
also you had a lot more windings on the
10:08
on the bobbins and so the the wide range
10:11
pickups you know we'll measure in the
10:13
10K to 11k range while you know your
10:16
standard Gibson humbucker would have
10:18
been in the seven to eight sometimes
10:19
into the 9k range so they were now that
10:22
doesn't now that reading doesn't always
10:25
measure into output but yet these These
10:27
are somewhat you know loud pickups they
10:30
are you know they have more they
10:31
certainly have more output than your
10:32
standard Fender single coil
10:35
all right so so that was you know that
10:38
was part of it with the The Thin Line
10:40
too was the the humbuckers of course
10:43
also you have the switch away from the
10:46
uh the Telecaster Bridge which is you
10:48
know a big part of the Telecaster Bridge
10:50
pickup sound is the fact that it's one
10:52
it's a single coil two it's mounted in
10:55
the bridge and there's an interaction
10:57
there that's an important part of the
10:58
Telecaster sound well by taking that
11:01
away and also mounting it to the pick
11:04
guard instead of into the wood or
11:06
something else
11:07
all those things change it now here you
11:09
have a non-tremolo strat Bridge
11:11
so big change in tone big change with
11:15
Hardware big change with the pickups
11:17
you also uh you have a change in uh kind
11:21
of the this made for an easier sub
11:23
assembly at the factory so now you could
11:26
have someone sitting there with the pick
11:28
guard and they could be mounting pickups
11:31
mounting the volume and tone controls
11:34
and the selector switch they could
11:35
solder it all together and then it could
11:37
be slapped into the guitar you know down
11:39
the line
11:40
while we're at it
11:42
um now the Telecaster book
11:45
the old Bible that we call that came out
11:48
in around 90
11:49
it says that these guitars had 250k pots
11:53
but I have yet to find one that has 250k
11:56
pots all of them have one Meg pots which
11:58
were what Fender was using in the in the
12:00
regular telecasters of the era
12:02
so if you have an original thin line
12:05
from the 70s a thin line 2 with the wide
12:08
range pickups and it has 250k pots
12:11
please comment below or you know send me
12:13
a note
12:16
um so then you you know
12:18
construction-wise there were some other
12:19
changes and so this was the first Fender
12:22
guitar to get the wide range pickups and
12:24
then this was also part of the
12:26
changeover in late 71 where you get the
12:29
addition of the three bolt micro tilt
12:32
you know neck adjustment and you get the
12:34
bullet truss rod and of course the
12:37
reason this is called bullet truss rod
12:38
is because it looks like a bullet bullet
12:40
end right here now this was a good
12:43
design because this allows you to adjust
12:45
the truss rod without taking the neck
12:47
off like you had to do on vintage
12:49
guitars on you know older on standard
12:51
telecasters
12:53
also you know you could adjust neck
12:56
angle with the micro tilt so you could
12:58
just loosen these screws and you could
13:00
put in an allen wrench in there and you
13:01
could rate and you could turn that
13:03
tighten it and what it would do is it
13:05
would press it would you know raise up
13:07
above the wood and it was just like
13:09
putting a shim in the neck back in the
13:11
old days so you'll find a lot of old
13:12
fenders where if you take the neck off
13:14
you'll find a little piece of paper or
13:17
plastic or maybe even a piece of wood
13:19
that's put in the neck pocket down close
13:23
you know closer to the bridge
13:25
and what they're doing is they're
13:27
changing the neck angle they're kind of
13:29
angling it downward
13:31
and uh and that was a you know a fairly
13:34
common thing not all all Fender guitars
13:37
have that but quite a few of them do
13:39
well now they could adjust that you know
13:43
at the at setup in the factory without
13:45
having to take the guitar apart and all
13:47
of a sudden it was all there and the
13:49
truss rod it's adjustable right here
13:52
neck doesn't have to be removed
13:55
so there were some really nice features
13:57
on the guitar and uh and of course this
14:00
guitar sounded you know very very
14:03
different than the other Telecaster
14:06
oh let's talk about colors and and
14:09
finishes and stuff you know of course
14:11
originally it was offered in uh in Ash
14:14
or mahogany but by the time the the two
14:18
series with the wide range is out you
14:20
don't really see many mahogany bodies
14:22
they're out there but there's just not
14:24
very many most of them are ash
14:27
finish wise of course
14:30
you know the natural is the is the
14:32
biggest one that you'll see you will see
14:34
some black ones some Sunburst ones and
14:37
some white ones every once in a while
14:39
there'll be some Oddball custom colored
14:41
one but those are exceptionally rare
14:44
most of the time the pickguard is this
14:47
white perloid but you will see some that
14:49
have just a white guard that's three Pi
14:51
instead of a
14:53
you know instead of a four ply like this
14:55
so
14:57
yeah and so these guitars during the era
15:01
that they were made were not incredibly
15:04
popular so the series one you know you
15:08
you know there was like footage of like
15:10
Curtis Mayfield playing the the first
15:12
version of The Thin Line but the second
15:14
version
15:15
really doesn't get played a whole lot
15:18
um you know I remember seeing the
15:19
footage of Conway Twitty playing on in
15:22
the 70s you know with his big hair and
15:24
singing bump uh you've never been this
15:27
far before but uh you don't see a whole
15:30
lot of guys playing Thin Line uh Thin
15:32
Line twos especially in the 1970s so I
15:36
guess it was not a very popular model
15:37
because also Fender removed it from the
15:41
line in late 78 early 79 the guitar is
15:44
gone so
15:46
it uh it just went away so it's kind of
15:50
kind of sad but uh but the guitar kind
15:53
of lived on so Fender Japan made a uh a
15:58
version of it part of their JV series
16:00
you know in the early 1980s that that's
16:02
pretty rare but they're they're they are
16:04
out there also there were copies made by
16:07
other companies uh Greco made a really
16:09
cool copy under their Spacey sound you
16:12
know telecopies that uh is a really good
16:14
Thin Line 2 Series and the pickups are a
16:18
little fatter sounding and I have to
16:20
give credit to Duke Levine who is a
16:25
friend of the show that has one and even
16:28
been using his Greco Spacey sound on the
16:31
road with uh Bonnie Ray and he likes it
16:32
because the pickups are a little fatter
16:34
sounding than a regular vintage thin
16:37
line so
16:38
yeah uh but yeah other players kind of
16:42
picked up on this guitar later on so
16:44
Johnny Lang Tab Benoit you know the
16:48
guitarist with uh you know Coldplay and
16:52
different you know kind of more all
16:55
alternative maybe Radiohead and some
16:56
other guys you know played these at
16:58
different times
17:00
um but yeah it kind of continued on in
17:03
reissues and uh you know of course the
17:06
the original models you know yeah it's
17:08
always one of those things where you
17:10
know kind of the outliers the punk guys
17:12
the the guys that are doing something
17:14
different that don't have much money
17:16
those are the guys that pick up on these
17:18
you know Fender or other models that are
17:21
less popular and then they kind of
17:22
popularize them so you know just like
17:24
the you know the new wave guys like
17:26
Elvis Costello you know played Jazz
17:28
Masters and jaguars and stuff like that
17:31
and they started making them popular
17:32
again and so then some of the Blues cats
17:35
and the uh you know kind of more
17:38
experimental Rock dudes started playing
17:40
these guys and started making these you
17:43
know popular again
17:45
uh this guitar this is a brand new brand
17:49
spanking new right right from the
17:51
factory uh you know vintage two series
17:55
uh 72 thin line from fender
17:58
so I really had a hard time I I looked
18:01
and looked for a one that I could borrow
18:03
from a friend or a store here in town
18:06
and I could not track one down and I
18:08
really didn't want to uh try to you know
18:11
have somebody ship a guitar to me so uh
18:14
so Fender was kind enough to to send
18:16
this to me and this is this is a cool
18:18
guitar and I think one of the the kind
18:20
of cool and fun features that they did
18:22
on this and uh you most people won't uh
18:25
won't get this right away but if you
18:27
look
18:28
there is toner
18:30
on the on the headstock alone
18:34
and the reason is is that in the 70s and
18:39
actually starting in the late 60s Fender
18:42
changed the way they uh they put their
18:44
logos on
18:46
and so if you look at 70s fenders
18:49
the headstock is always darker than the
18:51
rest of the guitar well in most cases
18:54
and the reason that is is that the
18:57
guitar was pretty much completely poly
19:00
and after the neck was finished they
19:03
would put the logo on
19:05
and then after the logo was put on they
19:08
would just spray a light coat of lacquer
19:12
and so what would happen is is that that
19:14
coat of lacquer would Age differently
19:17
than the poly
19:19
and it would create this look and so
19:21
Fender uh you know had kind of a little
19:25
fun tip of the hat to the old guitars
19:27
and that they put a a toner on there so
19:29
for so brand new it's already darker
19:32
than the the rest of the of the neck so
19:36
kind of a fun thing well I'm gonna I'm
19:39
gonna play a little bit of it uh now for
19:42
you since all I've done is is talk about
19:43
it I'm going to play it through my old
19:46
Deluxe Reverb you get to hear that clean
19:48
I'll go through the the different
19:50
pickups and just play that for you
19:53
[Music]
20:01
thank you
20:03
[Music]
20:22
really appreciate you watching the show
20:24
today and I'll see you next time bye