I Was Given A 1967 Bigsby Fender Telecaster - Ask Zac 162

well hello friends and welcome to Ask
1:16
Zac I hope you're doing well today
1:19
today I
1:22
yeah I'm I'm blown away I have a dear
1:25
old friend named Bill McCumber who gave
1:28
me his
1:29
1967 Bixby Telecaster that uh he sent
1:34
off to Bill Lawrence in the late 1970s
1:38
to have it modified with custom wound
1:40
pickups
1:42
and then later switched the the neck to
1:46
what looks like either a 72 or 73 neck
1:49
highly customized personalized guitar
1:52
that a very good friend of mine and
1:55
Mentor decided to to give to me so I'm
2:00
gonna tell the story about Bill McCumber
2:03
and just his friendship and how much he
2:06
means to me
2:07
gonna tell the story about the the
2:09
guitar and the modifications that bill
2:12
Lawrence did to it and uh yeah and then
2:16
also gonna show a you know because I
2:18
have a stock 67 telegon to kind of show
2:21
the differences and also and the
2:23
difference in how the guitars have worn
2:26
even though uh you know Bill you know
2:29
really babied this guitar but uh but he
2:32
played a lot of gigs so you'll see that
2:34
and of course we'll end with the book
2:37
Nook segment that we haven't done in a
2:40
while so we're coming back around to
2:41
Book Nook
2:42
so while you're thinking about it if you
2:44
haven't done it already then please go
2:46
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2:48
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2:50
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2:51
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2:53
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2:58
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3:00
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3:02
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3:05
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3:08
t-shirts and all those things
3:11
let's dive in so let's let's start off
3:16
with Bill McCumber so uh
3:19
who gave me this beautiful guitar
3:21
so I grew up in South Texas in Old Town
3:24
Called Kingsville
3:26
and you know I started playing in bands
3:29
by the time I was in high school and
3:31
such and uh
3:33
you know probably after high school
3:36
early college probably right before I
3:39
moved to Nashville I ended up meeting a
3:42
steel guitar player named Bill McCumber
3:45
and Bill is a fabulous steel player that
3:48
is still playing gigs in his 80s and a
3:51
wonderful person a model American and uh
3:57
he uh he kind of took me under his wing
4:00
in a real kind of subtle wonderful way
4:04
one he uh you know of course I was you
4:08
know 18 19 years old when we met and I
4:10
was way over playing I was way into
4:12
Albert Lee and Ricky Skaggs and I think
4:14
I even had a v Bender by this point and
4:16
I was just yanking on the B Bender like
4:18
crazy and he kind of you know in a
4:21
subtle way would uh you know kind of
4:24
push me in the direction of playing
4:25
maybe a little bit more of the melody or
4:27
playing some different things and what
4:30
really really impacted me was he lent me
4:35
a big stack of records and he said
4:37
here's some stuff you ought to listen to
4:41
and the first record on the stack was
4:44
Jimmy Bryant and Speedy West two guitars
4:46
country style
4:47
then there was Roy Buchanan's first
4:51
album there was Jimmy Bryant's Country
4:53
Cabin Jazz there was uh you know Joe
4:57
mafis and Merle Travis and Chet Atkins
4:59
and uh
5:01
one of my favorites and this is kind of
5:04
an odd one was a Jesse McReynolds
5:06
electric mandolin album so Jesse
5:09
McReynolds was a cross-picking Bluegrass
5:12
mandolin mandolinist and Jesse had done
5:15
this album where he's playing a Kent uh
5:18
electric mandolin through an Echoplex
5:20
doing kind of the dotted eighth note
5:21
thing kind of like uh like Grady Martin
5:25
and Albert Lee and and John Jorgensen
5:27
have all kind of done this trick where
5:29
they have the delay that's like a dotted
5:30
eighth and it's the same volume as the
5:32
original note
5:34
and he's doing that and playing Melodies
5:35
he's doing like Buckaroo and different
5:37
things like that so
5:39
I had not been exposed you know to the
5:42
hardly any of those players and so uh
5:45
and Roy Nichols there was uh you know
5:48
best damn fiddle player you know the
5:50
Merle Haggard tribute album to Bob Wills
5:52
was in there and heard things like tiny
5:55
Moore and uh you know Roy Nichols and
5:58
all these guys and so Bill McCumber a
6:01
huge influence
6:03
you know through the years he's had a
6:05
lot of different cool guitars and when I
6:07
would when I moved up here to Nashville
6:09
and I would go down to visit my family
6:11
when they were still living back in in
6:13
Kingsville you know he would let me
6:14
borrow things like he had a 55 Strat
6:17
that he let me borrow and so you know I
6:20
have a photo of of me in fact I'll post
6:23
it this is this is me playing his 55
6:26
Strat when I was in in college and it
6:28
just flown down and I think that's his
6:31
PV session 400 with a JBL 15 in it that
6:34
I'm using
6:36
but uh
6:37
yeah and Bill was just always
6:40
encouraging to me always kind and I
6:44
think one of the big things I learned
6:46
from bill was Bill was always and is
6:50
always a true Country Gentleman he knows
6:53
how to treat people he knows how to
6:55
treat women he knows how to handle
6:58
himself in public and you know he was
7:01
the assistant city manager of the the
7:04
city that he was in for quite a while
7:06
and just a really really great guy and a
7:12
big influence on me
7:14
uh so it it came as a big surprise when
7:19
he contacted me a couple weeks ago and
7:22
he said Zach I haven't really played
7:24
guitar in a long time and uh and you
7:29
know I really want you to have my my old
7:31
telly
7:32
and
7:34
I was just blown away and I said I'd be
7:37
honored to have your Bixby telly
7:40
so uh he he boxed it up and uh and it
7:45
arrived just a couple days ago
7:47
and uh here it is
7:50
and so this you know of course has been
7:53
modified
7:54
but here I'm gonna show a picture of of
7:58
first let's let's show a picture of Bill
8:00
you know from a pro this is probably
8:02
about 20 years ago this is a a gig where
8:05
uh bill and I were playing together in
8:07
Kingsville Texas I think this is at the
8:09
the old mooc Moose Lodge or Elks logic I
8:12
can't remember which one but here we'll
8:13
show that
8:15
so uh yeah so he he said he wanted to
8:18
give me this Telly and so
8:21
Bill bought this Telly when it was new
8:24
and it's either a 67 or 68 and the way
8:28
we tell is by this picture I'm going to
8:29
show you right now
8:31
so here you can see Bill and looking
8:34
very Dapper with his hat on and he's you
8:37
know sitting on a chair and you can see
8:39
his amps up on her chair too and and you
8:41
can see that's a you know a Bigsby Telly
8:44
with a maple cap neck and so of course
8:47
this has the the route you know in
8:50
between the pickups uh which definitely
8:52
says it's pre-1969 and having a maple
8:55
cap and the CBS logo means that it's you
8:59
know either a 67 or 68 telly
9:03
so he got that guitar from Bob Claussen
9:06
at clawson's music and at the time they
9:09
were located in Annaville but now
9:10
they're in Corpus Christi and they have
9:12
been since the 1970s
9:15
bought it from Bob and uh
9:18
then later on as he was playing through
9:21
the 60s and 70s he uh he contacted Bill
9:26
Lawrence the famed you know pickup
9:28
designer who of course has designed
9:30
stuff for Fender and Gibson and on and
9:32
on and on and of course had his own line
9:34
of guitars that were built by moradaira
9:37
in Japan and uh you know just all sorts
9:41
of different pickups used by Reggie
9:42
young and you know Roy Buchanan all
9:45
sorts of cats
9:46
so and of course bill was very connected
9:49
with the
9:51
talk about Bill Lawrence he was
9:52
connected with the steel guitar
9:53
community and made steel guitar pickups
9:55
and also he and George Lewis had l l
9:59
sales which later on became George L's
10:02
solderless cables after uh Bill Lawrence
10:05
and George Lewis kind of parted ways but
10:09
of course Bill Lawrence was also part of
10:11
the solderless cable thing that came
10:13
along which of course Fender had done
10:16
back in the 50s but uh all right now
10:19
we'll get back to Bill McCumber and Bill
10:21
Lawrence so Bill McCumber contacts Bill
10:23
Lawrence and says hey I have this Telly
10:27
and it's I'm having you know feedback
10:31
issues and uh probably the pickups had
10:33
gone microphonic because they were you
10:36
know they were lacquer potted back in
10:38
the late 60s instead of being wax potted
10:40
and so you know he was playing the
10:42
guitar a lot and probably a lot of that
10:44
lacquer flaked off and it was just
10:45
starting to you know make noise
10:48
especially being anywhere near an
10:50
amplifier
10:51
so Bill Lawrence had to think about it
10:54
for a little bit but then he contacted
10:56
Bill McCumber and said send me the
10:58
guitar
10:59
and so so one bill sent the Telly to
11:03
another bill
11:04
and so this is what he did
11:07
so let's let's start off with
11:11
so first off you know you can obviously
11:13
tell he changed out the control plate
11:15
so this is a you know so Bill Lawrence
11:17
custom you know fabricated this uh
11:20
stylized control plate use these
11:23
different knobs and it has these two
11:24
switches and the two switches are really
11:27
interesting the way it's wired is with
11:29
both switches down
11:31
it's both pickups both pickups are on
11:34
if I just have this one up and this one
11:37
down
11:38
then it's just the neck pickup
11:41
if I have just this one down which
11:44
corresponds to this pickup then this is
11:47
just the bridge pickup and then both of
11:49
them are up it's out of phase
11:51
so here let's let's just show that real
11:54
quick so let's start off with uh neck
11:57
pickup
12:02
okay
12:04
[Music]
12:13
and then you can add in the bridge
12:15
pickup so this is both pickups this is
12:17
both switches down
12:20
[Music]
12:25
this is just the bridge pickup
12:30
[Music]
12:39
and then with both switches up
12:42
you get them out of phase
12:45
[Music]
13:03
turn the echo off
13:05
so
13:06
so first off you have the the change in
13:09
the control plate and wiring but looking
13:12
underneath it the the cavity was not
13:15
enlarged or changed in any way so I
13:18
thought that was that was nice then of
13:20
course you have this neck pickup that's
13:22
been added and to show this off I'm
13:24
going to pull off the scratch plate
13:27
there we go
13:31
and so what Bill Lawrence did was he
13:34
just routed out a shallow bit of the
13:37
wood so he didn't go deep and then you
13:41
can see this is a piece of aluminum that
13:43
the pickup is epoxied to and then the
13:47
plate is screwed in
13:50
so pretty ingenious way of of doing that
13:54
without having to be super invasive it's
13:59
here that I need to note that one thing
14:01
I thought that was interesting and I
14:03
don't uh you know it just reminded me I
14:06
have a couple of these Bill Lawrence
14:07
Sound Hole pickups and of course they uh
14:09
they look very similar in the same shape
14:12
and such but that's just kind of fun you
14:15
can
14:16
see here
14:18
all right so that's that modification
14:22
then he changed out this plate so this
14:25
is not the original Bridge plate that
14:28
was on the guitar this is a piece of
14:29
aluminum that bill Lawrence fabricated
14:32
and then this pickup is epoxied to that
14:35
and so underneath this there's no
14:37
routing done at all so it's it's
14:40
completely stock underneath this plate
14:42
and this is the original Jazz master
14:44
style you know bridge on the Thimbles
14:47
and everything and then of course this
14:49
is completely stock so you know the the
14:52
real changes are of course you know
14:54
there was this amount of routing that
14:56
was done uh you have of course this
14:59
pickup added this pickup added this
15:01
plate changed out this plate changed out
15:03
the wiring changed out uh also just uh
15:06
just so you can see this is the original
15:08
pick guard and that was you know of
15:12
course modified to go on this guitar but
15:14
then after Bill got it Bill mccummer he
15:17
decided that he liked the look of The
15:19
Black Guard on it better than the uh
15:22
better than the white so so that it
15:25
would go with the control plate
15:28
which I completely get that
15:30
so
15:31
that's what it'll uh
15:33
so Bill got the guitar back used it and
15:36
then you know Bill McCumber got more and
15:38
more into steel guitar and he didn't
15:40
play this guitar as much and it started
15:41
kind of spending more time in the case
15:44
then in the 90s there was a a Nashville
15:48
guitarist that we don't know who it was
15:50
but uh he came into clawson's music in
15:53
Corpus Christi and he traded in a early
15:57
70s Telly and Bill mccummer really liked
16:01
the neck on it better than his old neck
16:03
and you know with all these
16:06
modifications you have to remember that
16:08
a 67 tele was not considered collectible
16:11
in the late 70s early 80s when these
16:14
mods were done and even in the early 90s
16:16
a 67 tele was still like a 500 guitar I
16:20
mean it was not collectible because it
16:22
was not pre-cbs and so things made after
16:26
1965 really didn't become collectible
16:28
until like the mid to late 90s unless
16:31
you had like a Paisley Telly or
16:33
something like that something that was
16:34
really out of the ordinary
16:36
so he decided he liked this other neck
16:39
better and so he asked Bob Clausen hey
16:41
can we just swap next and he said sure
16:43
So that's what they did so somewhere out
16:45
there there's a 72 or 73
16:48
Telecaster that's got a 67 or 68 neck on
16:51
it so anyway this next in great shape
16:54
you can see it's got all the lacquer on
16:56
it and uh
16:58
you know the Frets got the original
17:00
Frets and there's no chipping or
17:03
anything you can see here where it had a
17:06
second string tree at some point
17:09
um
17:09
you know the markings at the heel of the
17:11
neck are so faded that you can't really
17:14
tell but with the the logo the way it is
17:17
the fact that it's uh you know a maple
17:21
neck not a maple cap that's what you
17:23
know kind of narrows it down to uh I
17:26
mean it could be as early as 1969 but I
17:29
don't think so
17:31
um yeah it's probably a 72 or 73 so but
17:36
before they started adding the S you
17:38
know for 70s and the the serial number
17:40
here on the on the headstock
17:43
so yeah it's a great guitar and I wanted
17:47
to show
17:49
I'm gonna make sure this is muted one
17:53
thing that that's kind of fun is I'm
17:55
gonna I'm gonna put this pick guard kind
17:56
of back on here some
17:58
so we can do kind of a comparison
18:00
because I have a stock a mostly stock 67
18:04
tele
18:05
that was my first vintage guitar
18:10
and here she is
18:12
so by looking at these you can see what
18:15
this guitar would would have originally
18:17
had on it so originally it would have
18:19
had that this so This pick guard you
18:21
know this pick guard would look like
18:23
this it wouldn't have been routed out
18:24
and also notice how the the color of the
18:27
pickguard is different you can see where
18:30
you know Bill McCumber was playing a lot
18:34
of gigs he babied his guitar and he was
18:36
always good to his equipment but you can
18:38
tell there's been it's been around a lot
18:39
of cigarette smoke because I mean this
18:41
was played a lot in the 60s 70s and 80s
18:43
in bars
18:45
uh and even the even the finish on the
18:47
guitar see how yellowed it is compared
18:49
to this one so you can see this one was
18:53
played harder
18:55
you know and and less kindly
18:58
by the former owner and you can see it's
19:00
like missing finish but then it's not as
19:03
as you know dark and that just I think
19:06
it has to do mainly with the uh the
19:09
amount of smoke that it probably saw so
19:12
yeah so this would have had the same
19:15
kind of control plate the same pick
19:16
guard all the same features and it would
19:18
have had this same type of neck on it
19:20
you know this Maple cap neck and yeah
19:24
so this is a really really cool uh gift
19:28
from from Bill McCumber and Bill I thank
19:31
you this is really special and I will
19:34
treasure it forever and ever
19:37
all right
19:39
let's put this down
19:42
and let's do a little Book Nook so
19:46
here we have another book that
19:48
unfortunately is uh you know kind of
19:50
goes in and out of print right now it's
19:52
it's not in print but if that changes I
19:54
will certainly say
19:56
so this is Fender the Inside Story by
19:59
Forest white and this is a
20:03
you know of course I'm a huge Fender
20:05
Aficionado and Forest white was an
20:08
incredibly important person as uh you
20:12
know kind of the uh the you know Factory
20:14
manager funeral he says here on the
20:17
cover it says former general manager so
20:20
he he joined in the in the mid 50s and
20:24
he was incredibly important for just
20:29
making the company run smoother and
20:31
having better inventory controls and you
20:35
know having his hand in designs and and
20:37
such
20:39
um and so he was you know with with the
20:42
company uh you know up until of course
20:45
CBS selling he was with it a little bit
20:48
after that and then he left because he
20:50
wasn't happy with what CBS was doing
20:52
uh he of course also went on to work
20:55
with Leo at Music Man
20:58
and uh
21:00
and there are a lot of this the book is
21:03
mainly talking about the fender era you
21:06
know mid 50s to to Mid 60s and uh you
21:10
know there's a lot talking about the the
21:12
Tweed amps pedal steals all sorts of
21:14
things there's great stories about Jimmy
21:17
Bryant and uh my favorite is one where
21:20
uh Jimmy uh goes in the employee
21:23
entrance with a beer and Forest you know
21:26
kicks him out and uh
21:28
that's funny and this book has been uh
21:31
you know quoted in other Fender books so
21:36
this this is one where you know a lot of
21:39
information has been taken from this and
21:40
used in other other books
21:43
um
21:44
the one negative thing I will say about
21:46
this Is It suffers from the fact that
21:50
Forest white failed the need to um
21:55
set the record straight and instead of
21:58
just kind of saying you know this is
22:01
what happens he has to go into you know
22:03
other people say you know this happened
22:05
but this is how it really happened and
22:07
so
22:08
you can tell that there were
22:12
inner rivalries in Fender and partially
22:16
for kind of just kind of
22:19
everyone wanting to be close to Leo and
22:23
people I think even at the time could
22:25
tell how important Leo was and ever
22:29
wanted to be everyone wanted to be
22:30
closer than anyone else to Leo Fender
22:33
and and I can kind of get it but it is a
22:37
great book and it is very much worth
22:39
reading Forest White
22:42
Fender the inside story and it's got a
22:44
lot of great kind of diagrams
22:48
patent you know drawings and it's got
22:52
you know a lot of things about wirings
22:53
and get and pickups and the magnets used
22:56
it's there's a lot of great information
22:57
in this
22:59
all right guys I hope you've enjoyed
23:02
today's episode and again I have to
23:04
thank Bill McCumber
23:06
for this beautiful 67 telly thank you