0:32
well hello friends and welcome to ask
0:33
Zack today we're going to talk about one
0:36
of the coolest instruments that Leo
0:38
Fender ever
0:40
made and that wasn't a huge success and
0:43
that is the fender electric mandolin of
0:47
course collectors have uh given it the
0:50
the nickname the Mando cter which is a
0:53
cool name and when I think Mando cter I
0:55
think of the little uh five string
0:57
mandolins that Joe Glazer made for Ricky
1:00
Skaggs with Benders on them and such but
1:02
uh these are very cool little
1:05
instruments very uh you know they're uh
1:09
they're pretty rare and so a lot of
1:11
collectors like to have them cuz they
1:13
look like uh little little strats or PAB
1:16
bases So today we're going to do a uh
1:20
you know kind of shallow dive talk about
1:23
the specs of these things and how they
1:25
changed through the years and its
1:27
original lifespan from 56 to 76 or so
1:32
and then we're going to do a deep dive
1:33
because we're going to talk about why
1:35
Leo Fender made this why he made a solid
1:37
body mandolin and why it was four
1:39
strings instead of eight and why it
1:42
wasn't a
1:43
success all
1:45
right before we take the shallow dive uh
1:49
I just need to thank my patreon
1:51
supporters because they are truly what
1:53
keeps the show going and I truly
1:56
grateful to them so if you would like to
1:59
support the show then go down in the
2:02
description and you can uh find the link
2:04
and uh find out more there all right so
2:09
here's the shallow dive Leo Fender
2:12
introduced or Fender introduced the uh
2:15
electric mandolin in the spring of
2:18
1956 it retailed for
2:21
$169 which in today's money be about 2
2:24
Grand and it was originally available in
2:27
either a two-color sunburst or blonde
2:32
and it had kind of a slab style Body and
2:35
had a maple v neck and a fender
2:39
spaghetti logo with no descriptor
2:42
underneath uh clusen machine heads with
2:44
white buttons uh an gold anodized pick
2:48
guard Telecaster type uh tone you know
2:51
volume and tone controls and output Jack
2:54
all mounted on the guard and a kind of
2:57
Telles Bridge with two uh Saddles with
3:02
uh that are threaded and this kind of
3:04
cool little uh single coil pickup that
3:07
uh looks like a little Strat or a Telly
3:10
pickup that has kind of a brownish red
3:13
cover um couple of interesting things no
3:17
truss rod you know so if you're looking
3:20
at one of these um you know I would I
3:23
would you know a vintage one I'd make
3:24
sure that the uh the neck was uh was was
3:28
straight uh if you're going to actually
3:30
play it if you're I mean if you're just
3:32
going to hang it on the wall who cares
3:34
uh and then you know of course it has
3:36
this little four bolt here serial
3:38
numbers on the on the neck plate on
3:40
these guys and uh yeah these are just
3:44
really cool little instruments so the
3:47
instrument quickly uh started you know
3:49
getting some you know changes through
3:51
the years the first uh came in 1957 just
3:55
the next year it got Contours like this
3:57
one so this is a 1958
3:59
so in 57 you get the Contours you get
4:02
this you know the forearm cut and you
4:05
also get uh this you know the tummy cut
4:09
here
4:10
um then the next thing that happens is
4:13
in 58 of course the Sunburst gets red in
4:17
it like this one so this is again this
4:19
is a 1958 model in 59 you lose the uh
4:24
Maple fretboard and you get a a slab
4:27
rosewood fretboard you also lose the
4:29
gold guard and you get a four ply
4:33
Tortoise and the standard color goes
4:37
from being blond and Sunburst to just
4:39
Sunburst three color Sunburst and of
4:42
course uh you can uh get custom colors
4:44
at a 5% up charge so custom colored 50s
4:50
like mapleneck examples are
4:52
exceptionally rare I've never seen one
4:55
I'd love to see one if someone out there
4:57
has one uh but they are
5:00
somewhat you know they're they're they
5:01
are out there as far as the Rosewood
5:03
board U 60s electric mandolins you'll
5:06
find them in candy apple red or gold or
5:09
some other colors and usually with the
5:12
custom colors they will have either a
5:14
mint green guard if it's early 60s and
5:17
of course by mid 60s you'll have um just
5:19
a three ply white
5:21
guard uh the other change that happens
5:23
is in 65 you get the change over from
5:26
the spaghetti logo to the uh gold
5:28
transition logo and then late uh late
5:31
60s early 70s you get to switch over to
5:34
kind of the black CVS fender logo on
5:38
there and then in the uh in the mid '70s
5:40
it uh it disappears and uh that's kind
5:45
of the the story of it um the strings on
5:49
it so
5:51
apparently um originally and I'm you
5:53
know this this is the best info I could
5:55
find was that the original strings on it
5:57
were an 8 a 12 12 a 19 wound and a 28
6:03
wound uh I think a lot of people kind of
6:05
string them up a little heavier than
6:06
that maybe starting with a 10 but that
6:08
apparently was what was on the mandolin
6:11
when sold and of course you know the
6:13
strings would need to be ball and you
6:15
know they were regular guitar
6:18
strings let's see uh and of course they
6:20
came in little uh you know little tox or
6:23
Tweed cases so the ' 50s ones are really
6:25
cool because it has the rectangular
6:27
tweet case with either the red or kind
6:29
of Brown interior and they're just you
6:31
know identical to the big boys but just
6:33
smaller so again a lot of guys like to
6:36
have these because they look uh really
6:40
cool next to a you know 50s Strat so you
6:44
know looks like the little
6:47
brother now let's talk about why Leo was
6:52
inspired to make these so to tell that
6:55
we have to we have to talk about Leo's
6:58
favorite band which is Bob Wills and the
7:00
Texas Playboys which is a western swing
7:02
band and just to give you kind of the
7:04
quick and dirty description of a western
7:06
swing it was kind of like the pop music
7:10
of the 30s and 40s which was kind of big
7:12
band swing music and except that it was
7:16
more uh you know I guess rural uh so you
7:19
had uh you know fiddles steel guitar
7:22
electric guitar and electric
7:26
mandolin so really where this whole
7:30
you know mandolin was normally an eight
7:32
stringed instrument and so you had you
7:35
know courses of strings so you had
7:36
Unison strings so you had double E's
7:39
Double A's you know Double Double D's
7:42
and and double g
7:44
strings so it
7:47
was you know as far as as far as in
7:49
Western swing you know it looks like it
7:52
was Tiny Moore that kind of started that
7:54
and so he played a Gibson a style
7:56
mandolin that had a pickup so it was
7:58
really an em model so that which of
8:01
course you know that stands for electric
8:03
mandolin from Gibson so you had an em100
8:06
and later on an
8:08
em150 and uh you know basically was an
8:11
eight string hollow body mandolin you
8:13
know acoustic mandolin with a big old
8:15
P90 with four pole pieces on it and
8:17
that's what he played except he would
8:19
only string it with four strings and so
8:21
he would end up playing it in kind of
8:24
not really the mandolin style or the
8:27
idiosyncratic things that were done on a
8:29
mandolin
8:30
so here let's just let's just talk about
8:33
that real quick so I'm going to set this
8:37
down and pick up
8:40
um an acoustic mandolin this is just a a
8:44
breed love mandolin that I've had for a
8:45
long time so a lot of uh you know kind
8:49
of the idiosyncratic mandolin playing of
8:51
the day would be doing things like this
8:55
[Music]
9:05
[Music]
9:10
and doing a lot of you know what what
9:12
you would call a you know tremolo you
9:14
know playing we're tremolo picking kind
9:16
of thing or this you
9:18
[Music]
9:19
know and then of course these kind of
9:21
double stop
9:23
[Music]
9:25
things so uh that was kind of a bit of
9:29
the mandin players stock and trade and
9:32
so setting this
9:37
down so tiny Moore did not play like
9:42
that he played more like a swing guitar
9:46
player and so he would play lines on it
9:51
like a guitar so you know you'd have you
9:54
know
10:11
[Music]
10:13
so uh again you know much more
10:16
guitaristic sounding and if you try to
10:18
do the kind of the traditional eight
10:20
string mandolin thing it doesn't really
10:22
work well so here's you know
10:30
so the tremolo picking you know is
10:32
really easy when you have the double
10:34
courses cuz your pick can kind of dance
10:36
across them and slide across them but
10:38
when you have you know the single
10:39
strings it's much harder to to do that
10:42
kind of thing and
10:43
so uh yeah so this this this was a huge
10:47
departure you know from a uh a regular
10:51
mandolin so tiny more creates this very
10:55
idiosyncratic style that's part of
10:57
western swing that was part of style I
10:59
mean he was a real
11:01
innovator and of course with the along
11:04
with the popularity of the band
11:05
especially in the 30s and 40s uh you
11:08
know there were some guys that started
11:10
playing in tiny style uh just a brief
11:14
bit about tiny he was born in Port
11:16
Arthur Texas and uh he uh you know he
11:21
would go from Bob's band to playing with
11:23
Billy Jack Wills who was a you know a
11:26
family member of Bob and uh then he
11:28
would of course go on later to play with
11:31
Merl Haggard in the late 60s and the 70s
11:34
and stuff and uh and he was just a great
11:37
great great mandoline player and if
11:39
you're wanting to do a deeper dive on
11:41
Tiny uh musically there's a great album
11:44
called tiny more music that the cover of
11:47
it is him holding a Bigsby mandolin and
11:50
that is an amazing record and then
11:51
listen to any of the Bob Wills uh
11:53
Tiffany transcriptions and the Tiffany
11:56
transcriptions those are not the B
11:59
Bigsby instrument cuz he didn't have it
12:00
yet so all that Bob will stuff um that's
12:04
all the Gibson mandolin with a uh with
12:07
single strings on it and the uh the P90
12:10
you kind of pick
12:12
up all right
12:14
so from Tiny Tiny's in the band till
12:18
about 1949 and when he leaves to join
12:21
you know Billy Jack wills and such uh
12:24
they find another Fiddler SL mandolin
12:28
player that that uh of course idolized
12:31
you know Bob Wills and and Tiny Moore
12:33
and his name was Johnny gimbal Johnny
12:36
gimble was from Tyler Texas so another
12:39
Texas mandolin player Fiddler and he
12:42
joined the band and he had a regular
12:44
Gibson A50 that he had added a pickup
12:47
to and apparently the pickup kind of
12:50
went wrong and it broke and of course
12:54
Leo Fender was servicing all of Bob
12:57
Will's amps and uh you know even ringing
13:00
stuff and of course later on he'd give
13:01
Elden shamblin a strat and you know all
13:04
sorts of stuff but um J you know Johnny
13:10
gimbal ends up taking him his Gibson a
13:13
style mandolin and Leo creates he
13:17
fabricates a pickup and volume and tone
13:21
controls and installs it on it and it
13:23
here's a picture of it it looks like a
13:25
little Telly or or Strat pickup that
13:27
just has you know a little black bobin
13:30
and and four pole pieces so this is
13:33
important um
13:35
so that's what Leo Fender is around Leo
13:40
Fender has been listening to Tiny Moore
13:42
he's been listening to you know Johnny
13:45
Gimbal and a a brief aside on Johnny
13:48
gimbal if you're a Texan or a fan of
13:50
Austin City Limits or country music in
13:52
general then you know who Johnny gimbal
13:54
is he's that wonderful you know kind of
13:58
gray white haired Fiddler SL mandolin
14:01
player that you'd see on heiw and Austin
14:03
City Limits all throughout the 70s and
14:06
80s I mean he was kind of everpresent as
14:09
this guy that played beautifully and he
14:12
had such a a smile on his face as he
14:14
played and you'd see him play with
14:16
everyone from Willie Nelson to Rodney
14:18
crra to the Texas Playboys and Willie
14:21
Nelson and just everyone and uh yeah
14:25
Johnny gimbal you know passed away uh
14:27
not that long ago but he was a great
14:29
great player all right let's get back to
14:31
Fender I I could go off on a rabbit
14:34
Trail for a while
14:36
but so that's what Leo loves Leo loves
14:41
the electric mandolin which is very much
14:44
a niche thing it's not what normal
14:47
mandolin players want so Leo decides to
14:52
design you know an electric mandolin so
14:55
what's he gonna do well he's gonna make
14:57
it a solid body so of course this is you
14:59
know kind of based on the Strat shape
15:01
Strat
15:02
headstock and then he's going to use the
15:05
pickup that he designed for you know
15:08
Johnny Gimbal and then he's got a little
15:11
Bridge it's based on the Telly and he
15:13
throws it out on the market in
15:16
1956 the problem is is that Western
15:19
swing is not cool and hip anymore
15:22
country music has kind of ear country
15:25
and western has shifted you have the
15:28
popularity of you know kind of Hank
15:30
Williams Senior web Pierce Little Jimmy
15:33
Dickens and others they have shifted the
15:36
sound of country music to more what we
15:38
would call at times Honky Tonk music so
15:41
it's kind of moved away from Western
15:42
swing also you have rock and roll you
15:46
have Little Richard you have
15:48
Elvis and so Western swing is not
15:52
popular so Leo Fender introduces this
15:55
instrument in
15:56
1956 and it's kind of like
16:00
who cares uh you know he's able to get
16:03
Jethro Burns to play one he gives them
16:05
to the guys on The Lawrence Welk Show
16:07
Neil leang and Buddy Merrill and they
16:09
play him a little bit on the show uh but
16:13
it really doesn't get a lot of exposure
16:17
because people don't care and and
16:21
mandolin players people that are playing
16:23
eight string mandolin when they pick up
16:25
one of these things it's a completely
16:26
different Beast you can't really play it
16:28
the same way way unless you were kind of
16:30
a single note kind of jazz mandolin
16:32
player that was playing an eight string
16:34
and then it's like oh this is kind of
16:35
interesting but if you're kind of a
16:37
Bluegrass or old timey or country
16:40
mandolin player it doesn't work it
16:42
doesn't work at all so these instruments
16:45
don't sell really well and you know even
16:48
when Fender had kind of Switched
16:50
switched over to
16:52
Alder uh you know in in kind of
16:56
5657 uh you know this one stays you know
16:59
the electric mandolin stays Ash for a
17:01
while probably because they had cut a
17:02
number of bodies and they weren't going
17:04
through them and there's a lot of necks
17:06
that are marked 56 and 57 that are on
17:10
instruments that have you know date
17:11
codes on the pots might be 58 or
17:14
59 so it didn't sell well and that's
17:18
because he made too much of a niche
17:20
instrument if he had made this an eight
17:22
string electric mandolin it probably
17:25
would have sold better if you made it an
17:27
octave guitar you know where he was six
17:29
string and tuned like a guitar then
17:31
absolutely would have sold better and it
17:33
would have been interesting if he would
17:34
have done like an octave 12 string think
17:36
about that you if you would have beat
17:38
Vox Phantom you know kind of to the
17:40
punch uh with a you know an octave 12
17:43
string that would have been really cool
17:44
and you know a lot of players probably
17:46
would have picked those up it would have
17:47
been it would have been more
17:49
popular so the guesstimates and this
17:53
comes from you know Fender the golden
17:55
years uh in that book they
18:00
they believe that there were 3,000 of
18:01
these made in the 20 year that it 20
18:04
years that it was
18:06
around um I don't know you know I I
18:10
would politely disagree just because of
18:12
how few I've seen but of course those
18:14
guys wrote a book and uh and they are I
18:18
I I I I'm going to give them respect so
18:21
we're going to say
18:22
3,000 uh yeah it just it just didn't uh
18:26
it just didn't do as well as it should
18:28
have the way these things end up being
18:30
used now or in the last you know 30
18:33
years or so um is one you'll see the
18:40
hardcore acoustic mandolin player that
18:44
will you know play like some Gibson old
18:46
mandolin during the show and then
18:50
they'll pull out one of these with like
18:52
a fuzz pedal or something like that and
18:53
start playing crazy stuff on it and it's
18:55
almost like it's like a little break in
18:57
the show it's like a pallet CL cleer and
19:00
uh and I think that's cool it's
19:01
interesting it's it's fun to just see
19:03
these things played at all of course
19:04
you'll see these with uh you know
19:06
Western swing uh retro you know Revival
19:10
groups and stuff you'll see you know
19:11
they'll have a guy playing an old Fender
19:13
electric
19:14
mandolin um the other way you kind of
19:17
see these and uh you know like Sierra
19:20
fah not Sierra Ferell Sierra Hull and uh
19:23
some other cats will use these in
19:25
interesting ways and which they'll
19:26
they'll put effects on them and it's
19:28
kind of a way for a mandolin player to
19:30
kind of have some electric guitar is
19:32
kind of fun and and kind of jam with
19:35
electric guitar players so you'll see um
19:38
people take these these old mandolins
19:40
and put either some Distortion or some
19:42
Echo and and uh tremolo and things like
19:45
that and do interesting things I've also
19:47
seen some studio cats use these uh
19:51
because these really cut through the mix
19:53
well because they're uh they're because
19:56
of the scale length and because of their
19:58
pitch they're kind of out of the way of
20:00
a lot of other instruments and so you
20:03
can play little Parts on these guys and
20:06
they really cut through the mix without
20:07
having to be turned up loud and so
20:10
that's another interesting thing you can
20:13
do with these but uh yeah really fun
20:18
little instruments and uh this one again
20:20
is a
20:21
1958 and this one is plagued by a little
20:26
you know something that's uh you know
20:28
kind of uh Afflicted many uh 50s and 60s
20:32
uh vintage guitar and that's that the
20:34
owner put his social security number all
20:37
over it so it's on the back of the
20:38
headstock it's on the neck plate it's on
20:40
the pick guard it's everywhere I've seen
20:42
a number of guitars like this where you
20:45
know people were afraid of their
20:47
instrument being stolen and they would
20:49
uh they'd put their social security
20:51
number all over the thing I mean I
20:53
remember there was a 335 that I owned
20:56
for a hot minute that had it
20:59
everywhere it was inside the F holes it
21:01
was on the back of the headstock it was
21:04
uh on the underside of the tail piece I
21:07
mean this guy put it everywhere
21:10
so all right well I need to thank a
21:14
couple people um or sources I should say
21:18
so one of the main sources I got for
21:20
information on this was an old old old
21:23
website called guitar hq.com that's been
21:27
around for a long time and it had some
21:29
good basic information another would be
21:32
uh you know of course the book Fender
21:34
the golden years and that's a great book
21:36
I've mentioned it a number of times it
21:38
has beautiful pictures and really great
21:39
information and a lot of you know kind
21:41
of old cataloges and uh old um you know
21:46
promo photos and stuff like that so all
21:49
right guys well I hope you've enjoyed
21:51
today's episode our look at the uh the
21:54
Mando cter and uh you know maybe we'll
21:57
do an episode Down on the line where I
21:59
uh you know try to see if I can track
22:01
down a Glazer Mando cter with a bender
22:03
on it and everything so that that would
22:04
be kind of a fun followup to do kind of
22:07
a modern uh electric mandolin uh episode
22:11
well thank you so much bye-bye