Navigating Podcast Monetization and Unions

Right over there , he is the one and only jim cullison from the average guytv . Jim , how's it going , buddy ?

But yeah , labor Day , well it's basically to me , isn't it just like somebody's going to have sheets on sale , something like that ?

So , filling it up with a mug , yes , filling your mug with a cup of hot java , and of course , that hot java is brought to you by my friend , mark over at podcastbrandingco , remember , yes , mark can do artwork for you . That's absolutely stunning , it's beautiful , it makes you look super pro , and he's been doing .

I think he's got somewhere between 500 and a thousand different artwork under it . But he can also do things like pdfs . He can do , uh , business cards we talked about that . He can do an entire website . If you want to see a website , go check out , well , the real brian show or congressional dish , or many others he's .

The beautiful thing about mark is an entire website . If you want to see a website , go check out , well , the Real Brian Show or Congressional Dish , or many others . The beautiful thing about Mark is not only is he an award-winning graphic artist , he's also a podcaster . So you don't get that whole .

Well , it's kind of like a radio show , but it's like for the internet . No , you don't have to do that .

Mark understands podcasting and he wants to know is like what is show about , what's the vibe , and then let him do the marketing part and the graphic part so he comes up with artwork that not only makes you look professional but totally matches your show and gets your branding in alignment .

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And From Hell you would not want to have been at Krakatoa when that thing went off , that's for sure and From Hell , available for you today . If you need another podcast to listen , to check that one out From a podcasting standpoint , listen to dan's production on this . This . He does a really nice job .

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Down there in nashville she says there's talk about unionizing podcasters , or at least the production part of podcasts . What's your take on that ?

And when our union rep came in , he goes , yeah , that's okay , it's in the contract right here . If you buy the store , you buy the people . And when our union rep came in , he goes , yeah , that's been tried in court . And we're like , yeah , and he goes , yeah , it's yeah . And I was like what am I paying you for ?

So I'm not anti-union , I'm just saying yeah , I still have a bitter taste in my mouth it didn't work . It didn't work .

That is not exaggerated . Cause the guy's like , hey , I'm like hey , we got four people on a panel . We got three chairs . I'm like I need another chair . He goes , are you sure ? And I'm like we can't have the person stand for the 45 minutes for their presentation . He's like all right , and so he came over late . He's like how'd ?

There are unions in podcasting , but it's usually on big networks that are probably in New York , you know . So I don't pay the worker what it's worth .

I think competition right now , especially in the editing space , where there are just tons of everybody and their brother that's done more than two podcasts , is now a podcast consultant or slash editor , slash producer , you know , uh , with , with , literally with , like four episodes under their belt , like dr's been in this for years , probably three to five , something

like that . I'm not talking about dr , I'm talking about that , but I don't know , jim , what are your thoughts on unionizing ? Do we need a union ?

I think generally and I can't say if I'm pro or against it one way or another I think there's probably certain situations where they work , some probably where they don't . To your question , does podcasting need one ? I don't know . To be honest with you , I don't know what the benefits would be .

To be honest , unions generally , generally these are general statements they generally fight for balanced wages in some ways right . In other words , you're getting they . They can generally protect low-paying , dangerous jobs , right , some of those kinds of things . They can do some collective bargaining , right ? The NFL has a union , that right . You think about that .

The players are in a union in the NFL , so it can do some good things . I think they can do plenty of bad things too . Does podcasting do any of them ? I don't know , dave . That's a really I don't know if there would be enough of a push Like . Podcasters tend to come pretty independent .

They don't want to be told what to do , they don't want to pay , they want . They don't want to pay Patreon , much less union dues , right , or they don't want to pay for a host provider . In some cases , somebody's going to take 15% or 20% in union dues or whatever . However , that works I've never been in one so I don't know .

I mean , listen , there's a whole history of bad actors on both sides . I mean the US military works kind of like a union where those in the union don't have any say or don't pay any dues . I guess you pay your dues as a service member . I was in that and I understand how that works .

But it's a similar kind of organization in the sense that wages are public . Everyone knows what's expected of them . My daughter when she started at the public schools here . They're a union and everything is spelled out publicly . That's one of the you can see kind of everything . There's nothing hidden .

It's very public as far as what , the policies and procedures and what you're going to make and some of those kinds of things . So again , I think it kind of depends on your preference , right .

I've been kind of hanging out since podcast movement in the advertising bubble and those people want things because , well , we've got to really make sure the advertisers are happy . And then you've got another group that's like well , no , we need discoverability tools . And then another like they all have different kind of needs .

And another like they all have different kind of needs . You know , bandrew says my solo hobby podcasting is unionizing because the owner treats me horribly . Yes , unsafe and hostile work environment . That's it . That's the nice thing of a solo podcast you are your own union . Ralph from Ask Ralph . Podcast Unions destroy the economy and were needed at one point .

Yep , now they're just an added tax on workers who generally can't afford that extra cost . The union reps make the bread at the cost of the worker . Randy Black who works in the education space . I'm very anti-public sector unions teachers unions , government employees because of the cost to the taxpayers .

It creates some tension in my home , as my father-in-law was a union president . Yeah , it's tricky and what you get into with . So let's say , a bunch of editors unionize , is that going to be like a thing like oh Wondery ?

Or know , greg in the basement will only use a union worker , or can I hire somebody from the Philippines for two peanuts and a glass of Tang ? You know what it's really . It's not going to stop people from you know this . I mean , oh boy , we're not going to get into undocumented .

But I mean there are people that get into this country and they charge a lot less and people use them and you know , I'm sure union workers would be like , well , that's not fair . So I don't . My question is when you make something , what is the problem you are solving and is that solution going to solve the problem ?

And going back to the herding cats problem , you know there's a group . I'm probably going , I can't remember . I'm looking for their card . It's like the Association of People that Work in Podcasting .

I forget what it was , tracy and Tina Dietz , and I know a few people that have joined it and I was like but it's made for people who work in the podcast industry . And my first question to them was like why are you guys doing this ?

And I remember , even right now , the Podcast Standards Project , which is kind of a podcasting 2.0-ish kind of thing where they're trying to get all well , here's what it was . I was in the room , man , it was like kumbaya , you had Buzzsprout and RSScom and Libsyn was there a bunch of .

And they all said , hey , if we all adapt these podcasting 2.0 specs at the same time , then the apps can add the features , because there'll be all these hosts that have it , so the apps could add it to their app and then the users or the media hosts could then see , oh , there's a place for this , and if everybody moved together it would move faster .

It's like , oh , this is amazing , I couldn't believe it . It was like this is going to , you know , this should work . And then kind of nothing happened . And then Captivate came out with eight features and Blueberry came out with , I think , seven , and we're all again herding cats .

And I know Sam Sethi is doing his best to be the kind of the lead evangelist over there to kind of explain what's going on . But it's hard to get everyone in the podcast space to move at the same pace because some , you know you have older companies with a lot of tech debt .

You got brand new companies that can do whatever they want right now because they're starting from scratch . So it's hard to get the podcast industry in general , which even somebody mentioned today , like there is no podcast industry . Podcasting is a delivery method and I was like it's kind of a point . Maybe , I don't know , you were going to say something , jim .

Well , the individual platforms do , based on kind of supply and demand and what's available , right . But what if podcasters went in collectively ? Now there was a comment Chris had said wouldn't podcast editors be a guild and not a union ? Comment Chris had said wouldn't podcast editors be a guild and not a union ?

In this example , let's , because the Writers Guild in Hollywood , right , the folks who write for TV and movies and some of those kinds of things , they do some collective bargaining , right , they can go on strike , and then there's no writing that is done , right , that's done to protect those writers and their the intellectual property and the things that they do ,

right . So what if podcasters got together and said , okay , we're not buying any more ads until we're guaranteed a price that's fair , a price that's that you can live on in , a price where we make some money , because there's some . You know , we're seeing this with Google right now .

I mean , they were just convict convicted's not the right word , they were just deemed a monopoly , right ? And here in US courts they have a monopoly in the ad space . Well , because they have a monopoly , they can squeeze people from a revenue standpoint and they can make , they can call the shots on what gets paid and what doesn't .

If podcasters collectively got together and said we're not going to buy it unless you guarantee us this price , right ? All of a sudden podcasters start going oh , yeah , I'll take more money . Right , I joined Dave .

If , for $5 a year , you joined a guild , a collective bargaining group , that said , yeah , no , we're not going to buy these ads unless we're guaranteed this price , all of a sudden , yeah , some of your money is going to go to some of the administration to help fight to get this kind of thing .

Maybe get some laws passed in the various regions that enforce these kinds of rules no podcaster is going to say no to more money , right , right , would you right If I said hey , for $5 a year , you can , I'll guarantee you this ad revenue price that may or may not be significantly more than you're making today .

In most cases it would have to be more , otherwise you wouldn't do it . So those are the kind of when we think about podcasters and unions or guilds or some of those kinds of things . That's a space it could play to help try to , because there is abuse going on from the big ad companies against I mean listen , we're the unorganized labor force for them .

They can do anything they want against us . They can set prices just about anything they want to do . And what do we do , dave ? Oh yeah , okay , we'll take your nickel . Okay , I'm just happy to get a nickel a month from you . We could be getting more from them , and they're making billions doing this Now . Is anybody getting hurt in this ?

No , is anybody being asked to risk their lives in a dangerous mine for this ? No , has anybody asked to fall off a 40-story building ? Because no , okay , so it's a little bit different than it was maybe 100 or 150 years ago . Could podcasters , though , collectively come together and say we're not going to buy any more ads until we're guaranteed a certain price ?

But I said there are double standards in podcasting and to me , if you want to see Dave lose his , like you know , poop , throw a double standard at me and I will scream injustice and spit and cuss and I will lose my cookies all over the floor . And so I come down here and I go . Here's the thing with advertisers .

I said I'm frustrated and confused as people like Tom Webster from Sounds Profitable explain how podcast advertising is a no-brainer . And there's just report after report and I go . So we outperform radio , newspaper , television , online ads . We beat them all .

And yet sponsors who advertise on shows such as CSI , newark Law Order , special Disturbing Unit or the Real Housewives of Lubbock and yes , those are all fake shows are worried that podcasting is not brand safe . Yet I know that people on podcasting might say you know they might say one of those seven dirty words .

I said go out and hang out with a bunch of group of 10-year-olds and you'll hear many naughty words come out of their mouths . And I'm not saying we should open the floodgates , but there may be worries about protecting people's innocence , which were lost months ago . And that's weird . I have a streaming error . What am I doing ? I just lost LinkedIn .

Sorry , linkedin . And I said actress Jenna Ortega , better known as Netflix's Wednesday . She's also in the new Beetlejuice movie . She was forced to get on social media and almost immediately got pictures of men's genitals . Those were DM'd to her and I go . She was 12 . She's 12 . And we want to keep things brand safe . And I go . But let's stay here .

And if you have kids in the car and you get easily offended , I go . When you read the line pictures of men's genitals , did your brain substitute the phrase dick pics , because they're the same thing ? A newspaper would . I should have played the rant jingle for this . A newspaper would say pictures of men's genitals and a podcaster would say dick pic .

Both are accurate . One might say a newspaper is more professional , the podcaster is more casual , and so I said in a recent episode of Sounds Profitable , they mentioned that . On the brand safety thing , one example Times Person of the Year cover feature of Taylor Swift was flagged because it was deemed unsafe because it contained language about feminism and torture .

Why ? Because Tay-Tay's new album is the Tortured Poets and I was just like come on , can we give up on this ?

But the double standard is it's so frustrating that to sell podcast ads we have to know if someone really listened at the 24-minute mark , while nobody says we need to know if someone really saw the advertisement on page B4 of the newspaper or page 17 of that magazine . That's a double standard .

An article about radio measurement said one of the primary challenges in the radio audience measurement is obtaining a representative sample size . It can be difficult to gather data from a large , diverse audience , especially when conducting surveys or interviews .

A sample size may not accurately reflect the preferences and behaviors of the entire radio listenership at leading to skewed results . And they go in , they talk about how they measure to the nearest quarter hour on radio and they just admitted that , yeah , that's not really that accurate . And yet we need to know that .

You know , did that person listen to seven minutes and 30 seconds when the ad came in ? And I'm just like that's not .

It's a double standard and I don't understand if podcasting is truly the best way to spend your advertising dollars , why we're not saying because , jim , you just hit the nail on the head when so many people now have the ability to have dynamic content and advertiser goes okay , I'm going to pay you peanuts .

And somebody goes I'm not taking that , I'm going to pay you peanuts . And then they go to the third person . They're like and a cup of Tang . And they're like that's it , I'll take it . And meanwhile prices of advertising have gone down the last year and a half and I'm like it's not genius here , it's math . So that drives me nuts .

Well , I guess it's going to be . I guess that's okay . Right , a group , everybody , put their hands on it and hold this pole steady , and what happens is every time , no one , you can't , as a group of people , you can't hold it steady . It always raises Because you always feel like you got to put a little bit of pressure against it .

When you know and you get enough people putting a little bit of pressure against that stick and it just rises every time . You can never get it lower , it always goes higher . It's the weirdest thing . We as collectively , as individuals , do the same thing , like in this case , though the market forces are always driving it lower .

You're always going to have podcasters are just like oh , I don't care .

Or you're always going to have podcasters say I'll take it , I'll take anything , I'll sign up for this and take anything , and that's kind of where , in you know , in in a collective group , you have some ability to tell people hey , you know , as a group we're going to do this thing together . So don't do that .

And if you do , there's going to be some social pressure against you , right , type deal Again . I'm not for or against this in saying either way . I'm just saying Again I'm not for or against this and saying either way . I'm just saying in podcasting , this would be the place . You have to have some money at stake .

You've got to have big players who are taking advantage of smaller players . That's generally where these things are inserted and they work . The problem with podcasting is it's from that standpoint , from a money standpoint , is it's too independent and it's too right .

And so in those situations that are completely unregulated , you have giant players and you have a million small players , and that's what we have today , right , we have a relatively small group of individuals who've made it very big , and then you have everybody else , and in the middle there's always exceptions . You've got a few people who are making middle money .

On this , I'd kind of say , dave , there is very little middle class , if we're going to use those terms . There's very little middle class in podcasting . Right , it's the big players and a jillion small ones . Sure , if you're doing it for a hobby and you don't care about money we hear all those things all the time that's fine .

Continue to do all those kinds of things , right ? Just making the point . That's the area this would fit in .

Guys , the ad companies that are doing this , they're giant and they're keeping all the money and they're giving us a nickel . Yeah .

That all mags can provide meaning magazines is circulation numbers and niche mags are surprisingly low in terms of subscriptions and yet they still get big bucks and ad dollars . Why ? Because I mean , think about that . If there's a magazine about model trains , how many of those are around ? Right , so you've got your target audience right there .

If you're trying to get to model train users and so consequently , you know you can go advertise in seven other magazines that might have model train users that read it . Or here's one designed for them . Okay , that has your audience . You will pay to do that .

I got an advertising deal just because I was a weight loss show and it was who I was aiming at and that is exactly it . Another great tip here from Rich . He says , hey , podcasters , setting rates would be akin to price fixing . I'm like , oh , that's a whole other argument .

John Jumango says an hour podcast takes about three hours to process the audio and then go through the edit and the raw audio and all the other fun stuff and assemble the episode . How much would you charge for three hours of work ?

Would you pay someone 90 bucks and keep in mind , of that 90 bucks , 30 of that has to be saved back for taxes , so you're really paying him 60 . And then you're like wait , and then I want to , so that's 60 for three hours of work . That's 20 bucks an hour . You're like okay , and you're going to live on that .

Daniel says brand safety is mostly being used as a weapon against conservatives . Somebody else said that it's really an odd way of kind of said that it's really an odd way of kind of not so much censorship , but it's . I mean , we've seen the whole thing . Yeah , this one . John , says that Brand Safe is the new censorship .

It seems to be in many and I see this on both sides in a way . But boy , we're real close to talking in politics here . But I've seen things where , yeah , it's just everybody I love establishments and there is one in podcasting that says we embrace all walks of life and you are special . Every snowflake is welcome as long as you think , like we do .

And I'm like wait time out a second on that . That doesn't seem to work . And then Ray has another great comment . He goes isn't it funny how we got here Wasn't podcasting the anti-big business radio ? Yet it seems to be turning into that . That's my whole point . Right now , radio is losing their audience on radio . So where are they going ?

They're coming over to podcasting . What are they trying to do ? Turn it into radio . And so where are they going ? They're coming over to podcasting . What are they trying to do ? Turn it into radio . And I'm like look , I got lots of friends that work in that advertising space . I'm like , easy , on the whole , radio is 30% ads .

That's a fairly well-known stat and if you go listen to the radio with a stopwatch it might be more than that . And I'm like we don't want it to turn into radio . There's a reason why radio is losing their audience . A , they sucked all the personality of it . There's no Wolfman Jack on radio anymore . There's nobody . Hey , baby , what's going on ?

No , there's Siri . Literally in Akron , ohio , on the one easy listening station , the DJ is Siri . Now , it's not Siri , but it's literally like Eddie Money , two tickets to paradise . And then it's literally like Eddie Money , two Tickets to Paradise , and then it's a song , and then maybe another song , and at the end of that she'll be like Sade Sweetest Taboo .

Thank you for bringing this up on labor day , right a , a holiday that everybody takes off and nobody actually knows the meaning . But it's interesting , as we've talked through this there , there's no , this isn't happening , you know . There's no organized labor , there's no unionizing a podcast . It's not happening in any way . I mean there's .

There may be some ideas or talks or pockets or some of those kinds of things going on , but just from a . It's interesting how fired up everybody has gotten based on just an idea , just a question , not even a . This isn't actually really happening . We're not doing this , you know , but just some . It's a .

I think it's a good , it's a good thought exercise to kind of work through this as a podcaster and say why am I doing this ? How could this be better for me ? What am I doing to support things that are in line with what I'm , what I value and what I'm trying to do , and and you know that that's the important thing is that you're in a line .

You can't listen , you can't change everybody else's mind . The only mind you can really change is yours .

Oh dude , just make sure you're aligned , just make sure you're lined up with your own values and you're doing the things that you feel are important with your values in that , whatever those might be , and then don't expect to say those things and everybody agree with you , right , I mean , I think one of the nice things , dave , you and I in the last 30 minutes

is we've had a pretty civil discord about this . Even in the chat there's conversations . Nobody's called each other . The chat there's conversations . Nobody's called each other Maybe not yet Nobody's called each other names . There hasn't been any demeaning of people . There hasn't been . We haven't had to go after somebody . You know . You haven't had to .

We didn't have to bring up any history of anybody's background . We didn't have to say things . We didn't have to do any of those things . We just were able to say , to express our opinion , and they're all great opinions and you can have them . This is the beauty of this you can have them , and today we'll walk away and we'll all still be . I hope so .

We'll still all be friends , and so thank you for having a chat room , thanks for having some civil discord out there . This is not happening very much , at least in the US culture , and so thanks for being civil out there .

He says I'm not shouting . Well , they were in all caps .

They were in caps , ralph , and that's an acceptable all shouting , yeah , but he did make a great point he says you have to come to the realization that you are not going to make money with your podcast unless you sell your own stuff or your name is Kelsey or Rogan , and in this case , or you're dating Taylor Swift .

That's why , Kelsey and for the record I need to double check this because Adam Curry kept saying up to a hundred million , like they didn't get , and it's a hundred million over three years , so it's 33 million , but he kept saying hey , up to a hundred million . So I need to go read that contract .

Then I'm not sure I will say on that point , it's the best way to monetize your show . It's not the only way , because there are people that are using advertising . There are tons of people . If you go to Graftreon , G-R-A-P-H-T-R-E-O-Ncom , that's where people on Patreon have said , yes , you can see my stats .

And there are people making , you know , $350,000 a month on their podcast . Now , as long as you don't say something that makes Patreon mad , that's not a bad strategy . But also , none of those people have been podcasting for six weeks . It's more like six years . The Chapo Trap House , which is some sort of political thing . Randy brings up a great point .

Glenn's Horse Radio Network awesome supporter , by the way , is a test case how to earn income in a niche , because most of us have niche talent . My podcast income is limited by my talent and ability . But yeah , Glenn's a great example of that . But it comes back to he's got that little niche and Ralph says you're buying the snake oil .

If you really think that your little weekly podcast is going to make you a million bucks that's probably true Generally ain't going to happen . You can sell your stuff and make a living . Yeah , If you have anybody . Here's the red flag you need to listen to .

When somebody says I can guarantee you listeners A , get that like okay , listeners as in two or listeners as in two million , you know , when anybody guarantees you success , I simply say please read to me or list off season four and five winners of , you know , American Idol . Those people were in front of millions .

I don't know who it was , but just getting in front of people doesn't , you know , ensure success ? And I didn't know about this , Chris . But just getting in front of people doesn't , you know , ensure success ? And I didn't know about this ?

Chris says Sticker Mule publicly came out as Trump supporters and emailed their customers touting this , and the Internet has lost its mind . That's a great way to lose business , because 50% of your audience is going to go what ? And I still say I do not care what the craft company stance is on Israel and Palestine while I'm eating .

Companies should go back to making a good product at a fair price that is profitable enough to keep them in business and pay their workers a decent wage , and let's let the politicians handle the political landscape . I'm that's for sure . That's just a crazy . Are we ready to change topics yet ?

Yeah , I think we beat this yeah , yeah so what we're going to do , then , is Craig has been patiently waiting . You can find Craig at live well and flourishcom . You can find him at AI goesToCollegecom , which is not that I don't enjoy Live Well and Flourish . Ai Goes to College is a bunch of guys , professors . Craig is at , I want to say , louisiana Tech .

It's a school , it's a college in Louisiana , and he is like he's like if I am here with AI , craig is like like he just swims in it and he wants to know what is know when is it time to throw in the towel ? And I was like I'm trying to find that question , but that's .

He asked that One thing you can do is say to your audience hey , thanks so much for listening . I'm going to take a break for a month . I've got some things I need to take care of .

This would be a great time for you to go to I don't know , livewellandflourishcom slash follow , because he's using PodgePage and it's built in and go , listen to all the back catalog and then take a month and during that month do you find yourself going . You know what this would be like .

Is your brain still in I want to make this podcast or is your brain in like phew , glad I don't have to do that anymore . Or I know , for me my first podcast was for musicians . I was no longer a musician , the music business had completely changed and I just didn't want to do it anymore .

And what I did is that show sputtered like a car , like it was going for nine and a half years . Then , all of a sudden , it was like and I'm just trying to get it going and pushing it , it was just , I just didn't want to do it anymore . And so it dawned on me after a while . I was like , yeah , I'm not excited about the content I'm creating .

It's taking way too much more time . And by that time I had found podcasting and I was like this is more fun , and kind of the same reason why I moved from Libsyn to Podpage . I like this sounds like more fun , and so there's a time for this sounds like more fun , and this isn't fun .

And so in the case of the Marketing Musician podcast , I was like , yeah , I just don't want to do this anymore . And so I tried a bunch of things . I rebranded it , I had a theme song made , because you know , all my listeners were like , well , I would listen to this if it had a custom theme song . No , that was not going to save it , you know .

Oh , this is a great show . Wish it had a custom theme song . I'd share it with a friend if you had a custom theme song . Yeah , so that was it , and I just after a while , jim , have you had any shows ? I'm trying to think , if you've had any , that you politely , you know , oh yeah , yeah , with Financial Tech .

Maybe it was just a bunch of us on the weekends getting together and chatting and Rich liked to do , rich O'Neill liked to do the editing of that and we chatted for three hours . He edited it down to an hour and a half or two hours or whatever , published that one for a while and then he didn't want to do it .

I did the Silicon Prairie News Minute with the editor-in-chief of Silicon Prairie News here in Omaha , who later actually is . Now I work with him at Gallup , which is super cool . Those two weren't related . He took the job without me , which is when he started working there .

I'm like , hey , I know you , but so , yeah , I've done a few , dave , that you know you get started . The Silicon Prairie News Minute . I thought the whole idea was a five-minute podcast every week to just talk about the articles they had published the week before . So get in there a little bit of summary about them . I asked them three questions .

We were boom and it's maybe more like 10 minutes , but we were like boom in and out and it was really a marketing tool for the Silicon Prairie News and we did that . I don't know . We did that for maybe a year and it wasn't working . We weren't doing it right .

I mean , if we went in with a goal we want X number of downloads or we're not going to do this , we never reached X number of downloads . We tried a bunch of different formats . We just didn't have everything . It took whether that's influence or marketing chops or it was the right time or any of those kinds of things that none of those .

We tried all those things and none of them worked for us and so we just decided , okay , we're not getting what we want out of this thing , let's not do it anymore . And so we did .

I have a plaque that shows I was employee of the year as a customer service rep for a fortune 500 company because I was just crushing year as a customer service rep for a Fortune 500 company because I was just crushing it as a customer service person .

And so I started the customer service show , thinking that I could start a show and quit my job in six weeks like everybody else . I was like , oh , this is going to help position me as a customer service person . I can be hired , I'll come into your company and teach customer service , because I was already doing that . Blah , blah , blah .

And I think I made it like eight episodes and I was like you know what this just sounds like a grumpy old man complaining Because I went into McDonald's . I remember I went into a McDonald's and literally I got my food .

I actually went through the order , got my change and the person behind the counter did not say a word like not a word , like he didn't say welcome to McDonald's , can I take your order ? He just looked at me like what ? And you know I ranted on that . I'm like what is that ? But in the end I realized that customer service was my job and not my passion .

And number two I was like this is going to take a lot of time and work to really position myself as an expert . And , looking back on that , I don't think I had a call to action of like , hey , if you'd like to hire me , so that was my goal , but I wasn't my . My call to action wasn't in alignment with my goal of being hired as a customer .

So a lot of things that were wrong with that .

But that was one that I just was like , yeah , I don't want to talk about this , this of things that were wrong with that , but that was one that I just was like , yeah , I don't want to talk about this , this is not my passion , it's my job , and that's why it lasted about eight episodes and I was like that's enough of that , it's interesting , go ahead .

Well , just sometimes that's why sometimes taking a break , a planned break , like hey , I'm going to come back on October 1st knowing that's really not a good idea , because when you come back you might have actually lost some of your audience because , well , they're listening to something else now on the way to work . But by taking a break you kind of get .

If you don't get any , like oh , I kind of missed doing the show , then maybe it is time to .

He's , we're we're Chiefs fans here in Omaha and so he's like hey , did you listen to the latest ? You know , and I only knew Travis at the time and kind of got to know Jason through that before we . You know , we've been listening to it before Taylor came along and they were having a good time .

I think without Taylor they'd still be having a good time and still doing it because they're both gajillionaires . They literally have made enough money in the NFL to support themselves for the rest of their lives . Jason has been a longtime player . He's done . He has been smart . His wife is a sharp financial planner . They're going to be just fine .

Travis is making gajillions of dollars as a tight end for the Kansas City Chiefs . They're not in this . They didn't start this podcast because they wanted to make a bunch of money and they started the podcast because they wanted to talk about football and they were just getting together doing it and they were two brothers in the NFL together .

They had some special privilege of that , both that relationship and their place in the NFL . That's hard . I mean it's hard enough to have one person from your family in the NFL , to have brothers in there working together . That's pretty amazing . Certainly the Taylor Swift effect has you know , my daughter is now listening to New Heights .

In fact , last night we went out for pizza and the football game was on and she was starting to ask me questions about the , about okay , what does this mean ? And what does that mean ? It's and I don't listen , I don't think anything . This was actually planned . It just kind of happened that way . Actually planned , it just kind of happened that way .

Uncle Marv , who's out there in the chat room today , if Uncle Marv's been on my podcast several times and if all of a sudden , uncle Marv started getting popular , I would probably call him and say , Do you want to be on my podcast every week ? Like , do you want you and me , or maybe some episodes that Uncle Marv and I have done together , get popular ?

And people are like , oh , we really like these . The two of you together are awesome . You know , if we started kind of getting that feedback from our audience , I'd be like , hey , let's do this thing every single week . Right now Sorry , uncle Marv , we're not getting that kind of feedback and so you're regulated to have twice or every other month .

At this point I don't have , at this point I don't have a regular host , you know . You know , as a podcaster , obviously you're going to take advantage of those kinds of situations that you know . There's some folks you want to say this has been manufactured since the beginning and that's one of those kinds of things .

So I'm like you know how hard that would be to like . The nfl has manufactured this from the beginning to get more of Taylor Swiss fans .

The other thing here on this article from Variety says the deal between the Kelsey Brothers and Wondery , which runs for three years , is worth more than $100 million , according to a source familiar with the pact and Adam Curry kept saying up to $100 million .

But I'm going to be interested to see who the sponsors are , cause if it's like you know , my butt looks good in these jeans , then you know cause , on one hand , it'll be interesting . I know Randy said he thought that show was boring . I listened to it and it took .

I think I made it nine minutes in and they hadn't got to the show yet because they were talking about their new jerseys and their jackets . It was just nothing but ads at the beginning , not really so much official ads , but they were promoting their own stuff and I'm with you .

I think they started this because they A the other thing they have that you cannot get any place else , especially when they were both playing was behind the scenes . Look of what it's like to be in the NFL . That was the big one for me . Then throw in a little Tay-Tay and whoa , hold on .

Now I've got a stranglehold on the 13 to 15-year-old female audience .

it now . Was it as big as it is today ? What's that 100 million dollar deal ? Probably not there , but I think they were doing just fine before it started . They also are interesting , to be honest , as I listened to that podcast .

Let's meanwhile the other one's kind of got a John Lee Dumas vibe where he's just like , yeah , baby , let's do it All right , let's see Meanwhile the other one's kind of just shaking his head as a little brother , like , all right , this guy's crazy , you know , he's so , he's so Travis is the Todd Cochran and the other guy who I can't remember his name is the

Rob Greenlee . Oh , that's right , travis , you know . So it'll be interesting to see Jason , thank you , and now you kind of want to see what Jason is up to . I guess now I'm counting his money that he's out of the NFL Cause he , as far as I know , he didn't get the typical job which is play by play someplace .

So my daughter has gotten to know his wife through the podcasts and she adores her as a Swifty and you're like , oh , how cute that they've pulled this all together , you know , and kind of made it work . But you know what this says , dave . It's interesting . Like people find the podcast interesting . They found it interesting pre-Taylor Swift .

They're finding it even more interesting and Swifties are coming over and they're not talking about Taylor , they're talking about football . I mean , yeah , there's a little bit of Taylor Sure . Well that's it , but it's mostly about football , right ?

But somehow kind of get VC money because people are worried about in the investment space all these companies and somehow the NFL made it possible to take outside money and I was like that's kind of weird because… .

There's a lot going on in the space . If you've been following the financial space , there's a lot going on with Southwest Airlines right now , where there's a couple active investors who are trying to force decisions to happen at Southwest . This is one of the problems with being public and being big , some of these kinds of things .

The NFL is looking at that and they're saying , yeah , you can put money in , you don't have a say . So they're being very cautious about that kind of money because they don't want there's big money in capital right .

At times I need to slow it down a bit , my brain can't keep up . Or just anybody where English is . Well , that's not . I was going to say English is the second language , but it's not the case in somebody who's from Scotland . But sometimes if it's a real super thick accent I will slow , but almost everybody the slowest I go is 1.25 .

And most of the time it's 1.5 or 1.75 is typically where I land . And then I'm using Cast-O-Matic which has the smart speed , very much like Overcast . I'm in the process right now of I love the podcasting 2.0 apps because they're doing the whole streaming Satoshi thing I want to give back to my podcasters . That's the good news .

The bad news is these apps are driving me nuts because they're new . They're not , you know , overcast . A lot of these have years of code built into them and I've , probably in the last two weeks , had Cast-O-Matic and I've looked . It's not a variable bit rate thing where they just start over . I'm listening to an episode and it just starts over .

So I started using TrueFans , which I like because it makes it easy to stream . But that app I love you , sam , but it takes me like six clicks to get back to the episode I was just listening to .

So I think I'm going to go back to Overcast for non-2.0 enabled shows , because that's just a great experience , a great listening experience , and I said for years , you will pry Overcast from my cold dead hand . And then the 2.0 stuff , I'll pick an app that I like , but it's just , it's getting on my nerves . But you know what's not getting on my nerves ?

We've got an awesome built-in community and a course unlimited and by that I mean in , as it doesn't end coaching with yours truly . You can use the coupon code coach and just go to schoolofpodcastingcom slash coach . I think we'll get you there . Also , you can look for that in the show notes .

My mouse skills are apparently dropped , I cannot click on the right button here , but it's also brought to you by PodPage . If you want to check out PodPage , just go to Ask the Podcast Coach . We use PodPage and I've been talking about that way before I started working there . But it's so cool . That's why I work there now , because it's awesome .

We're using Ecamm right now . If you go to askthepodcastcoachcom slash Ecamm , that's what we use to live stream . Again , all this we'll have links in the show notes . And if you need more , jim Cullison and you know who doesn't need more Jim Cullison it's a very Nixon-esque kind of pose there . My friend , I am not a crook . I am .

You know , jim is not a crook . Go over to theaverageguytv and it's time for the moment you've been waiting for . When we go over to the wheel , and who will it be ? Will it be Ed Sullivan , will it be the ladies from Keep the Flame Alive ? Or Max , or all these people ? Well , let's click the wheel and find out .

And the feature supporter is Ross Brand from Livestream Universe . He also has a new book out about video podcasting . I'll put a link to the book in the show notes as well . Ross , thank you for being an awesome supporter . You should be like Ross and be an awesome supporter as well . Do that again by going over to askthepodcastcoachcom slash awesome .

And if we've saved you some time , if we've saved you some money , if we saved you a headache or if we kept you educated or if we just made you think or entertained you , again , super easy , askthepodcastcoachcom slash awesome . And so let me head on over to . Here we go . Yes , daniel has a new idea .

This will be the question of the month how to get a date with a beautiful celebrity to grow your podcast . One would be drop about 50 pounds . For me , that would be start one , yes , and we're having some talk about Bernie the cat in the chat room . If you're not familiar with Bernie the cat , go to Bernie the cat showcom .

That was my cat that I was so cool , I gave him his own show .

But but you were good you were good about recording him , and , and it's one of those kinds of things yes , not going to last forever , by the way , new heights not going to last forever . Like this isn't going to be a for everything .

They're going to do this for a while and they too will get sick of this , and all these things end at some point , with the exception of the simpsons . All these things end . You always have to throw the simpsons in , cause they even I don't think they're ever going to stop making .

You know , type deal , he just kept doing it and nobody you know nobody canceled his show on Johnny Carson and he was allowed to go what ? 30 years , something like that late night king of late night . And you can see now in that space how hard it is . Conan in and out , jimmy Kimmel , you know that group that's in there , I can name a bunch .

I'll just have an incomplete list there , but it's tough to get to go and eventually , you know , you know , are like eh , you're , yeah , I think of Craig Ferguson , who I really , as a comedian , I really I think is very funny .

And Craig left at the top Like he was never more popular than he was , when he himself walked away from that show , right yeah , and said I need to do something different . You know he was just , he was tired of it At the very top . I mean , the last week of filming for the late show you couldn't get a ticket , it was packed .

I think Craig even joked , he couldn't even get his mom in to the show . For the last show there were so many people there but it ended and I'm sad .

I love that show but they don't go forever , right , and some of these trends you know , before we were talking about , you know , travis and Taylor , we were talking about Rogan , and he's getting a little less conversation these days . In this . He's a little less visible . Eventually he'll give it up as well and do something different . He's another guy .

If he's played , if he's played his cards right , he has plenty of . He could do anything he wants . He's going to have should have plenty of money .

He goes hey about pod page . How many podcast app is smart to list on the slash follow page dealer's choice ? There is a point because you can have apple , spotify , amazon , ghana , geart , blah , blah . And there is a what's the phrase ? It's oh , when you give people too many choices .

But one of the things I suggested is can we have a first string ? Can I say , hey , on the episode show an Apple and Spotify , which will get you about 80% , and then have a more button that would then pop up all the other ones , because for the most part , people are looking for that .

Or , if you like well , I don't like Spotify , I want to use Podcast Guru and Cast-O-Matic , just some way to go . Okay , these are the ones I want to always show and then these are going to be more . When I threw that at Brendan , he's like oh , that's not a bad idea .

And I'm like because it is , you want to be everywhere , but if you show everywhere , people are like you know , they've got to scroll a page and a half to get to the content because you've got you know this much this big giant block of buttons on your website . I would say the minimum would be Apple and Spotify .

Anything above that is , you know , personal choice . And that's where , like for me , I forget what show I was looking at , but I had a pretty big pocket cast .

Listenership was , you know , like number three , and I was like , oh , I should make that easier because , for whatever reason , this audience seems to you know , and that's without pocket cast being prevalent I mean , it was in the list of stuff it might be look at your audience and see what the current people are using and then maybe start with those .

You should really think about this , like where am I located ? What are you listeners using ? I might want to . What was the one in Europe that Deezer ? Was it Deezer that always that's big in Europe ? Maybe a lot of your listeners are in Europe or you're in Europe and you want to include Deezer in there as opposed to not including it .

So I think you need to think through it from a stats perspective . You need to think through it from a design perspective . Like , like you said , dave , if you give 50 , I don't know how many are available , I'll just say but I'll just say you give 50 . That may be too overwhelming .

So you might want to boil that down to the 5 or 7 , 5 to 7 that most of your listeners are currently on , because , good chance , you got some traction in that and then maybe some opportunity to add a few others that are either important to you or you might want to grow or some of those kinds of things .

Also , this audience survey question like what are you listening to the podcast on , so you could get some additional information from those users ? Certainly , if you're going to advertise on one of those podcast platforms your show , you're going to want to make sure that is available on your page as well .

Oh , this is a great one . What's the best podcasting 2.0 listening app ? I might be done with Castmatic . Yeah , on one hand , I'm sitting here complaining because it's acting up a little weird , and then the other hand is as a guy who worked in support , have I let the guys at Castmatic go ? Hey , this thing's driving me nuts and here's what it's doing .

No , I haven't done that . So shame on me , because , as someone who worked in support and still does , you can't fix what you don't know is broken . So you got to let them know . I have been sniffing Podcast Guru because that is a iOS , Android and web-based app .

I'm looking for something that I can listen on my computer , like pull it up on , and not so much on my phone . I don't want to have to Bluetooth my phone into my .

You know , have a web-based version and when I get done with that , hit stop , I can pick up my phone and pick up right where I left off , and the best app for that's absolutely gorgeous is Podurama . That's the good news . Bad news is no podcasting 2.0 stuff in it . Overcast has a . They have a web-based version .

They're not podcasting 2.0 and their web-based version . Admittedly , Marco said , yeah , this is an afterthought , Like it's cool , but Podurama's beautiful . And I've emailed them multiple times saying could you please add 2.0 stuff ? Pocket Cast has a nice web version but again , they embrace some 2.0 stuff , but not the streaming Satoshi thing .

So , depending on what you're looking for . But if Pocket Cast , every time they come out with like here's some new features , I get that email and I instantly hit reply and go where's the streaming Satoshis ? And I just don't think you know some companies are like yeah , we're not going to touch that , I just that's , you know it's .

I don't know how hard it is because you get into wallets . And I think I said this last week when I was talking to the guy from Apple . They're not anti 2.0 . It just he said it needs to be easy , like easy , easy , like e z , and I need to load that app I talked about and see just how easy it is to stream them .

But , man , this , the super chats are coming in here . Thank you , ray , dr ray . Well , if you take dr see , if you look at the r and fay your eyes go cross .

I can't remember if the word daily is in there , but they do it Monday through Friday on Clubhouse at 7 am and DR is pretty much the co-host of that show , so I pop in and out of that one . So thank you , dr , for the super chat . Deeply appreciate that . And then the one and only Bangs Naughty Bits . Yeah , thank you so much for the super chat .

How about all the new legal geographical restrictions that are hitting , uh , restrictions that are hitting various walled garden platforms ? I've missed you , bangs . I've missed you so much . It's such a bangs question . The geographical restrictions I know not of . Do you know what he's talking about , jim ?

It reminds me of good morning podcasters , which used to be Fuzz Martin and then that show which was , oh , the guy that was all about Spotify , oh , I can't think of his name , but he sold the show because he went on to do something about not skeptics . Anyway , my brain is not apparently awake this morning , but I don't know what happened to that show .

But if you're looking for a daily show podcasting , morning chat , thank you , dr . And also on pod page , by the way , and it's an interesting show . It's a lot like this show with because it's on Clubhouse , you hear more voices . People here like to communicate via chat , which is fine .

You can always go to askthepodcastcoachcom slash question and jump in if you want .

Thank you , here we go , mark Ronick , or take your pick , ronick .

We really don't have that much more to say . I mean you start repeating yourself , especially if it's very topic-centric . Thank God we cover all of podcasting . Otherwise , I mean , imagine if we tried to do a niche on this show , how , I mean , we already run out of topics to talk about most weeks .

No-transcript love to say , dave , there's this magic spot when you do , but you've said it before you've got to . You know , if you're and I always like to start if you wake up one day and you don't want to do it , that's the beginning of questioning it right . And you don't want to do it , that's the beginning of questioning it right .

That doesn't mean you ended there . No , I mean there may be some adversity going on in your podcast . At that moment that's going to go away . You might need to push through that adversity and to get to the other side of it , because your podcast might get better through adversity . So don't just let your feelings dictate it .

If you have a plan around it , finish the plan . If you got some ideas you want to get out , get those ideas out . This is a decision you have to make and you alone . Certainly you can get advice and some folks from you know get some folks' advice around you on it .

But you know , at some point in time I think you just have to sit down with yourself and say do I want to do this ? And then don't quit . At that point , if you say yes , don't quit right away , push through for another couple episodes and if it's still there , okay , then maybe you know , maybe that is the time to to .

You know , pull it to pull the plug on it . And , by the way , pulling a plug on a podcast , taking a break and coming back , you can do that too . You know you don't have to . You don't have to . There's no rules on this thing . You can do it however you want . You could slow it down , you take a break , whatever .

Just know all those things have consequences and so you know you're not going to you , you know it's an opportunity to keep everybody if you stop for a while .

And I was thinking about weekly web tools . Weekly web tools was a show I did for probably 10 years and I just at that point , I'm like I think I've talked about every tool I want to talk about and I was again putting out content that I wasn't really like , oh , this is good , oh , my audience will love this . It was like , eh , this will do .

And I just , you know , and I , that was one . It was the weirdest show . I would get everyone , hey , what tools are you using ? Let me know by going to weeklywebtoolscom , blah , blah , nothing like just crickets . And then I would say , hey , I'm thinking about ending the show . You know , blah , blah , blah . And I'd have to like threat my audience .

And then it'd be like , oh , don't go , I love this show . I'm like , oh , now you're engaged and that's not a good way . You don't want to , you know , engage your audience with a stick , you know , but that was just one . After a while I was like it's too much time to find something that I'm excited to talk about .

I'm getting my why was like I don't know why I did that . I guess because I thought it was fun . It was a fun show . It wasn't fun anymore . And I was like , but yeah , ralph kind of hits this , like you know , the question about quitting is pretty much simple Are you still able to reach your why , or have you covered it ? And you know ?

So for me , I was just like no , I'm trying to think of other shows . You pay me Podcast rodeo show five bucks , five bucks . And if that's too much , then I have the podcast hot seat and I've come to the conclusion on this . I'll get to that in a second Podcast hot seat .

Or review your show and your website and you get a free month at the School of Podcasting , podcasthotseatcom . Then I've got the podcast review show of podcasting podcasthotseatcom . Then I've got the podcast review show .

We , as in me and Eric K Johnson , will look at your episode and your website and answer your questions , bring you on , et cetera , et cetera , and I've come to the conclusion that people do not like to be reviewed in public or they just don't like me . One of the two but , or three .

I'm sure there are many other options , but I just was like all right , this is what it is . I put it out there . It's there if you want it . If you don't , that's fine , but there it is . That's my why . If you want my opinion , if you want to pick my brain , that's fine . I got a lot of people that are paying me to pick my brain .

I'm not going to allow you to pick my brain for free unless you wake up on Saturday morning . That's why the show exists . So the person's like , oh , I can't afford that . I'm like , okay , just get up on Saturday morning . Oh , I can't do that , which is my favorite answer of people like I want to grow my show , oh , do this , that and that .

And they go yeah , I don't want to do that . So that's always fun , it's too hard . Yeah . Stephanie says if you feel like you spoke about it again , or if you feel like you've spoken about it all , speak about it again and then , if you don't want to do that , then quit . I repeat stuff on occasion . I mean , I repeat examples all the time .

I mean , if somebody brings up a title they're going to go oh no , dave's going to talk about After the Darkness again . I'm like , yeah , it's a great example , but people have heard that a billion times . And there are times when I just go to the different groups and I see people , you know , asking the same questions .

I'm like , well , people still have this question . And then I try to see if I can come up with the same topic with a different slant . I know I've covered imposter syndrome probably two or three times and each time I've come with a different slant on it . They're talking about daily podcast and batching in the future .

Ralph , my hands to you , man , when you say I'm thinking of quitting my podcast , my first thing would be , hey , how about ditching that daily thing ? Because it's hard , it's really hard to get content .

If the goal is to position yourself as an expert , as a thought leader , that means you got to go develop some thoughts and to develop thoughts on a daily basis that show your expertise . Now , Ralph's been doing accounting for 30 plus years , so he's got a lot of it up in his noggin . But daily is a .

It's a grind that I've just seen , you know many people , so that would be at it's tough .

They got a deal to be on Netflix , so this solo podcaster and it's just , it was just so ridiculously ridiculous . It was , you know , asking Ninja . So you're asking this Ninja about , you know , dating advice and it was just hilarious and you know . But that show hasn't put out a new episode in probably about 10 years . Is that a failure ? He stopped .

I'm like , I don't think so . You got on Netflix , you know . So it kind of goes back to your why . But was Cheers a failure ? Seinfeld , mash , they all quit , you know .

No , you kind of there comes a time when you're like either in the case of Seinfeld and MASH , I know , and actually all those they kind of said said , hey , we don't want to be kiss , we don't want to go out when we can't sing anymore and should have probably quit three years ago . You know , I don't want to be foreigner where there's nobody in the band .

That was actually in the band . You know what I mean . It's basically a glorified covered act , you know .

And then the other thing we should mention if you do decide to quit a show and you have another one , so let's say it's Craig , he's got Live Well and Flourish , which he's been doing for a while , and maybe he's just like I think I've said all I can about Live Well and Flourish On your way out say , hey , thank you so much for listening .

I'm going to keep the episodes up for a while . So , again , go to livewellandflourishcom . Slash follow , get the old back episodes if you want to keep them , but they are going to be up for a little bit . But if you want more content from me , check me out at AI Goes to College , because often they come for the content but they stay for the host .

So they feel like they have a relationship with you and they may not be into AI , but if that's the only thing you're talking about , they might go over to check it out . Or if you start a new podcast hey , I'm tired of talking about this , I'm going to be talking about this over that .

And that's the case where , if you are pausing a show to do another one , make sure you have the website up , make sure you have all the follow things going on so that as you close one door you're opening another . But the real Brian does the show ProfitCast , and that would be one thing If you're not 100% , 100% sure that you're done with the show .

He used to have the domain ProfitCast and apparently let it go because he's like , ah , I'm not coming back . And then eight years later he came back and I think it's like rockyourpodcastcom or something , because that's Brian's little catchphrase . He and I think it's like rockyourpodcastcom or something , because that's Brian's little catchphrase he goes , let's rock it .

But it came back after like literally , like I think it was eight years . Daniel took years off from you know , I don't know where his priorities are . He decided to go raise his kid . Like , wait what ? Putting family first , that's , but no . And then he came back , you know , and that's what you do . There may be times .

I am really tempted to do an episode of the Musician's Cooler I'm sorry , the Marketing Musician podcast , because of all the 2.0 streaming Satoshi stuff that's now worming its way into the music scene , where people are making more money in you know , a week using this new streaming Satoshi stuff than they have in years on Spotify , and I think I have to go back

and listen to my last episode of that show . I think I said if I find something interesting , I'll let you know about it . Dr says would podcasting 2.0 help when it comes to transferring your download numbers to a new host ? No , I tell my clients to take lots of screenshots for any kind of media kit . Download your stats as a CSV file .

I know Buzzsprout and Captivate . You can put your old numbers in , like I know . Like , let's say , I had 11 downloads on Buzzsprout . I can go in and say , oh , this episode actually got 450 downloads on my previous host . It'll then show the total numbers 462 . But I can't see how many downloads I had on episode four back in July of 2016 .

That kind of detail is gone , but you can transfer the total number of downloads and that's it . Daniel says I love the t-shirt . You can prick my brain after you picked your payment method . That's awesome . Hey , speaking of t-shirts , you can prick my brain after you picked your payment method . That's awesome .

Hey , speaking of t-shirts , I am wearing a cool one . Now nobody can see it . Let me switch to the me camera . This is let me look at that pretty cool . And I looked at this right and I was like hey company , your logo isn't here . Jim , can you spot the logo in this shirt ? It says hit record .

It's got this big skull and he's got headphones on , but there is a logo in here , do you see ?

And I was like , oh , very cool , but when you get it like bigger than you need it to be big so that when it shrinks it fits , you know it's at this point like I have to . I would have to stand up to show you this because it's down by my belly .

And I sat there but I had the t-shirt on and you always joke about how , Dave , I always make the letters too big . And it said I help podcasters . It's what I do , schoolofpodcastingcom . And somebody actually came into the Chipotle and I'm sitting there with my earbuds on . He taps me on the shoulder . He's like , what do you do for podcasters ?

And I was like , oh , and he goes . Yeah , I saw your shirt when I was walking by and I was like , there you go . So score one for the t-shirt . Swag . And anytime I'm in public I went out last night thing they was put on a school of podcasting t-shirt Cause I'm going to be in public , I'm going to be promoting myself .

Going back to to quitting , ralph says podcast fail because most people are lazy and just want the easy way and aren't interested into the hard work . I know people may hate me for this comment , but that's the truth . Wasn't that the truth about anything ? In a way Like if you're lazy , success you really isn't going to come your way . Probably .

I mean people look into it . You know I have not heard this . I heard that pick my brain is a negative thing . To say Maybe to somebody with a concussion . I don't know , let's see . Bill says can I find this live stream on platforms other than YouTube ? Go to ask the podcast coachcom , follow , and you'll see .

It's on apple and spotify and cast magic and live . Though what else is it live ? Typically it's on linkedin . Linkedin was like see you bye halfway through today's show , so uh , I also .

And like instantly we got comments like I didn't do the Trump and blah , blah . You know , I was like , oh , here we go . So I'm going to get kicked off again , cause now I've said it three times . You know , craig says one of the things I'm changing about live well and flourish is to only do episodes when the spirit moves me . That's building a better .

Dave , I have an episode in my head that I haven't done yet , that I want to do , but that show is on a when I feel like it basis dan did remind us you also talked about the d pics , so that's it .

And like there's a lot of swearing and look , I'm not a prude , like I am the , I'm the son of a truck driver , so I've heard these words . But so on one hand I'm like , ah , I wish society wasn't so prone to just drop these words and maybe be a little more creative , maybe pull out a dictionary and come up with a new adjective .

That's what I wish life was . But you know , in that thing I said you know , go find a 10-year-old and hang around on a . Well , don't hang around 10-year-olds on a playground , that'll make you look a little creepy . But you know , I have great nieces and nephews and they didn't know . I was listening and I was like oh , that's an interesting word .

And they're you know . And you're like wait , you're a little kid . You're like no , you're 12 . And I was like you know , so it's . It's just one of the things where I'm sad . That's the state of you know where we are today .

You know I don't want that yeah yeah , um , let's see what else we got here as we oh , we're over time , holy cow , I think we're done we are done so it's time to do the . You know , hit the ending credits and you know thank our awesome supporters and ask jim what's coming up on ?

You can hear it right now TheAverageGuytv or on pod page HomeGadgetGeekscom .

On the School of Podcasting , somewhat related to value for the whole 2.0 thing , I'm going to talk about value for value and I'm going to look at because there are a ton of these now I mean Buzzsprout , Captivate , Supercast , Patreon . There are a ton of these . You know , Buy Me a Coffee , Hip Pay .

There's a ton of these and I'm going to go through and say , all right , here's the pros and cons of each and if you're trying to get your audience to somehow give you some money because you gave them some value , here are some things you can do and I will give you a hint .

Patreon is not my top choice and people are like what , but everybody uses Patreon . Well , everybody uses Patreon . Because everybody uses Patreon Doesn't mean they're the top one . So that'll be coming up on the School of Podcasting this week .

Thanks , as always , to Mark at podcastbrandingco and Dan at basedonatruestorypodcastcom , Thanks to the awesome chat room and thank you all for the super chats and like subscribe , ring the bell , all that other fun stuff . Thanks to Jim Cullison . Think like what an awesome co-host .

Love you , buddy , and we'll see you next week with another episode of Ask the Podcast Coach .