AI and Authenticity: Navigating Trust and Creativity in Podcasting

Jim , how's it going , buddy ?

It's instant cozy , and you know the one thing you could do , though , if I wanted to heat myself up , that's right , a piping hot cup of Java . And , of course , that lovely cup of coffee is brought to you by our good friend , mark over at podcastbrandingco . If you need something to look good , anything , I'll give you an example .

I took a class this week on LinkedIn , and they're talking about how important your banner was , and I went over . I looked at mine and went yeek , and I was like you know what ? Who would make a good banner ? Mark over at podcastbrandingco . He's not just artwork for podcasters , although he's done many of my artwork .

He will do a whole website , he'll do a PDF , he will do whatever it takes , and the beauty of it is he will sit down with you one-on-one . You're not going to get that on Fiverr and figure out like what is your brand ? What are you trying to portray ? Are you funny , are you serious , are you very businesslike ?

You're just not going to get that from somebody else . And he's a podcaster , so he automatically understands what's going on in the world of podcasting . He's been doing it for almost a decade at this point and he's got over 500 pieces of artwork .

Chi Chi , I think that's how it's pronounced C , h , e , exclamation point Eight men out 1942 and captain Phillips , if you want to check it out , you're looking for something new to listen to or you just want to hear how a really good podcast is put together . Check it out today . Based on a true story at based on a true story podcastcom .

I have to go over and play with that and see what it is . But this is one of those things where , again , I lost my chat window and I know it's in here somewhere .

But one of the things I wanted to talk about was somebody had requested I'm on Buzzsprout for this show Most of my stuff's on Captivate , but this one's on Buzzsprout and they had requested like , hey , I'd be interested in advertising on your show . Well , I'm not just going to put anybody on my show .

And so I went over to listen to it and , lo and behold , it was our good friends Kyle and Cheryl from Google notebook , and I guess so . Then I looked it was some technical yeah , it was some technical show . But I looked and nowhere in there did it mention that it was an AI-generated show , and that's what made me mad . I mean it literally .

You talk about somebody pushing somebody's buttons . My buttons were pushed , I went over to their website , clicked on Apple Podcasts and immediately left them a one-star review .

Because for me , I was just it's one thing to use it right or to play I know Danny Brown is doing a show and I think he's announced that it's one thing to use it right or to play Like . I know Danny Brown is doing a show and I think he's announced that it's not real people but I just .

For me , it was just the fact that somebody was passing this off as real people and I was just like and then so here's the question , right ? So I'm like , how are you supposed to connect with a robot ? You know , because they're . What's fun about it is A they always delve into something , strap in , you're going to do a deep dive .

That's always in the first minute and a half or so . But I'm like , what if I didn't know this ? And I really thought Cheryl was funny and I tuned in every week to listen to Cheryl and see what she's up to . And I was like and then I find out that they're not real .

And I'm like , well , that'd be kind of weird to make a connection with somebody who's not real . And then I walked through the living room and there was Monica Geller with her brother Ross , and Rachel Green and Joey and Chandler , and I'm like none of those people are real but I feel like I know them right .

But I guess the difference is I know when I'm watching TV that's really David Schwimmer and , you know , jennifer Courtney Cox .

And the minute I shut up , all right if I did , if jim and I were this the minute I said you know , and that's why we need to talk about it yeah , and that's a good point , dave yeah , see , that's not . I mean , they're right on top of you . 100 exactly , I know , I know , I know , yes , huh , okay , yeah , and they are .

I told you this in pre-show . It's a bad morning show . It's , you know , it's Bob and Judy in the morning , right , and they're just blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . You know , you've heard those syndicated morning shows of those folks and they just ramble through and those I think are real people . But this is bizarre .

You know , I did some work this week with Notebook LLM and I had to listen to those voices again . I was like no , stop it .

All right , right , here's the thing , though . Hey Jen , I think that's obviously H-E-Y , I think it's G-E-N . Dot com , g-e-n , yeah , g-e-n dot com , and I don't know if it's dot com or dot A-I , but I can make a video version of me , and I was one click away and for some reason I just went . You know , I don't want a video version , because it was .

They say don't move your hands and you just talk into the camera and somehow they spit you out , because as I'm watching the sales letter on HeyGen at HeyGencom thanks , jim and halfway through the guy's presentation , he goes oh , by the way , I'm not real , this is a computer version of me .

And I presentation goes oh , by the way , I'm not real , this is a computer version of me . And I was like oh crap , I didn't know that , you know . So it can definitely fool people . Stephanie says is it always the same voices ? Yeah , at this point . Maybe that'll be the thing I did . A thing that Ralph had talked about was you can have it review .

You can have it do a podcast about your website review . You can have it do a podcast about your website . So I just did it to like I wanted to see if they came up with any good taglines or something for the School of Podcasting . I was like , well , that would be interesting . But yeah , chris says this is all about integrity .

That's going to be the thing , and that's what made me mad is I was like because , look , I recognize Kyle and Cheryl , that's what I'm calling them . And so the minute I heard it , I was like , okay , is this being disclosed ? That this is AI ? And when it wasn't , I was like , seriously , it was , how dare you ? I was like I give thee a one-star review .

This is a notebook piece of crap . Because he didn't tell anybody . And I was like , eh , so , needless to say , you won't be hearing any spots on this show for that show . But I was . I just thought it was funny that .

I just thought it was funny that I really was kind of like it pushed my buttons hard and I was like , well , but I look at fake people on tv . I'm like , yeah , but I know they're fake .

the fact they were passing it off .

So I have a situation at work where we are our former CEO no longer with us and we have a lot of , we have a lot of his content from the past and the audio quality is terrible of it , right , so it's hard to listen to . But if I could get a few bits of audio from him where it is clear we did a 45-minute recording of him back in the 90s .

That was on video and that was . It was very well done , right , the audio content . If I could clone that and then replay that as a dub over the bad audio to bring back to life some of those things that he had done , maybe in the 80s , when you know recording was difficult , that he had done maybe in the 80s when you know recording was difficult .

Yeah , remember the old state players where you hit play and record . You know what I'm saying .

But I think we need to go through some of these technology revisions , some of these initiatives , some of these things that we're going to do , these enhancements . There's a word there I just can't get it out .

And to get to the point where , like can't get it out , and to get to the point where , like that's a really great use case of I recorded some audio for a voiceover and it wasn't . The quality of the recording wasn't as good as I wanted it . So I used 11 Labs Dub and I put my own .

Yeah , they have a voice-to-voice and I just I have a good voice print now at 11 Labs Sounds good . I like it To run over the top of that and clean it up from an audio quality . It just mimicked to me what I was saying , but it fixed the audio .

That kind of stuff doesn't happen if we don't try some of these experiments with AI and voice and some of those kinds of things . So I want to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater , as we say in this , because I think there's going to be some really good things that are going to help us get better audio from our stuff .

Or I'd love it if I could do a podcast and then go in and you can kind of do this in Descript today . Right , go in , clean up the script that Descript makes for you and then have it , redo it in my voice , but take out all the ums and you know the mistakes I made and whatever . Again , that doesn't happen unless we try some of these things .

So I just want to be careful . We I know sometimes we rail and I've seen the comments out there and stuff we got to go through some of this , I think , to get some really good tools for and out on the back end yeah , steph has a question about this and I'll .

Never make a guest say something they didn't say Like a fun . You know what I mean . That would be an own my book .

If that would be a perfect thing to say okay , here's the text we're going to change it to , are you okay with that ? Yes , run that text through AI . Let it say it the way they want . I think that's okay , right .

So I rescind my initial knee-jerk reaction . I just no , it's a good one , though . It's a good one .

It's because you're signing it in your voice , like that's so that I don't just grab a bunch of audio from something , clone it and then , you know , I could make either one of the current presidential candidates say anything that I want .

I'm sure that's actually happening already oh yeah you know , know there's some integrity , there's some yeah , there's some things in there that we got to be very careful of , but it is . You know , I think I I don't think you're wrong to have that kind of reaction . I just think it's time .

Listen , we've talked about this AI stuff for the last I don't know five , six , seven weeks , and , and as we were chatting in pre-show , I got the feeling that you were like let's stop talking about it , like we've talked about it enough . No , this is we . This . We're on the cusp of some really interesting things .

I'd kind of gotten bored with podcasting last year . Nothing new , blah , blah . Dynamic ad insertion , blah , you know , blah , blah , blah , ads , whatever . I just kind of got bored with it .

This new AI stuff and thinking about voice and voice prints and voice quality and some of the things we can do with it , some of the things Descript is doing with it , some of the things I use , auphonic , some of the things they're doing with it . You just kind of go Otterai . I mean , there's getting to be some really helpful tools .

So I think we should continue to give it heavy scrutiny , but realize that it's coming . The train is coming . How are we going to embrace this in a way that makes sense ?

It's basically making a guide for you to learn whatever the heck . And in this case I just put them at my website . So if I go into the study guide and I have no idea what's going to come up here , so that's always kind of fun .

But right now it's a lovely spinning blue ball of just you know , sit here and wait while it's generating a new note from this . But apparently , because I was on a webinar , here we go . What are the common mistakes podcasters make ? How does Dave Jackson experience qualify him to teach others about podcasting ?

Interesting , so it's , you know , it might give you some ideas for episodes , or I just need to look through this . But I didn't realize it did all this . Here's a study guide , here's the top questions , blah , blah , blah . So it's again . You know it's not all bad , but I was just like wait , what ? Oh , it's not . Are we switching back to us ?

Yes , we had this , okay , yes , but I was just like , wait , what ? Oh , it's not . Are we switching back to us ? Yes , we had this , okay , yes , you're over here now , jim . Okay , I was like where'd the screen go ? So it's interesting . Stephanie wanted to know are you on the free or paid plan ?

Yeah , it's one of those things where I'm like how long , jim , till we clone our voices right , throw it into something like this , give it a script and go back to bed , and then you know it'd be me going . You know , hey , welcome to Ask the Podcast Coach , and Jim would be going a hundred percent . Let's do a deep dive .

It wouldn't make much sense for us to do that , just wouldn't . I wouldn't be interested in it . I have no intention of letting an AI take over for me .

And they're like why ? And I'm like because I , I charge people for that ? Jeff has a great point . Jeff C says that we must figure out how to rise above and find the new ways to be authentic , because there's no , you know , we're not going to put this genie back in the bottle .

He goes and put it all on Spotify and he goes because they just want content , they don't care if it's good or not . And he's like because it'll just make me sound that much better . And I was like that's interesting's interesting . Yeah , I'm kind of with that I like that .

But when you spend like here's the thing , I could call up my best friend right now and we could talk about Eddie Van Halen and how David Lee Roth just turned 70 . I'm like , wait , david Lee Roth just turned 70? . I'm like , yeah , david Lee Roth turned 70 this week . You know , now there's no focus to that .

There's no , you know , it's just us talking and I think people forget that a podcast is content intended for an audience . Now , you don't have to care about that .

But I mean it was easily six minutes of just shooting the you know breeze and I was like , wow , I thought this was a show about movies and even I mean I love Jen Briney and it's a good show once they get to the point .

But there's a show called we're Not Wrong and they spend at least five minutes making fun of something that I don't care about and I'm like , please , this is where I want chapters so I can go get to the content . The chat , gpt thing , the Google notebook here there's no chit chat . They're not . Like Kyle , what did you do this week ?

Well , my cat was scratching the couch again , so we got to get a new couch . So we went down to Big Lots Can't believe a couch is a hundred bucks , you know . Like no , they just got right to the . So that's what we can learn from this . Now I always say it's , I'm not anti-chitchat .

I'm anti-chitchat at the beginning , like put it at the end or weave it in somewhere . But when the title says how to turn dog poop into gold and you're not talking about that , like that's why I hit play , I want to learn how to you know , holy cow . Stephanie has a follow-up question . She says I didn't get a chance to ask them because it's an idea .

Wait , it's an idea I have . Now she's talking about again having the guests . I'll reach out to them and ask them . They maybe just send me a voice note For me just to say let's do it . See , part of me goes . No , you should definitely get their permission . Yeah , no , you should , yeah yeah , it's just it's just a note .

It's always worth it to get their permission , that's oh well then , and this is spooky , this is why I didn't do the hey jen thing and make a video version of me . Jody says who's a voice actor ?

Jody says I've heard some voice actors putting their voice in there and then finding their voices in places that they didn't consent to , so that's something worth keeping an eye on , because I mean , jody , I wonder what the terms are in there .

And I just started doing this , so I'm not an expert on it , but I actually liked some of the work it did on the free version before I bought it . The paid voice , the training I did on the voice .

I put two or three hours worth of my voice in and then I put in you know the text and had it read it and it read it really slow , with no emotion , kind of thing , and I thought , oh okay , I'm going to have to do some training on this .

Those , the actor , the voice actors , if that's what we're going to call them you may be offended by me saying that about them , but those voices that are on 11 Labs , the canned ones I think they've spent a lot of time working on those voices and training those things .

I think I , if I want my voice to do the same thing based on text , I think I'm going to have to do some work in there to get it the way I want it . You know the way I say things . The other thing that may be is you may play that those back of your voice .

It's like listening to your voice the very first time when you do recording and you're like , oh , that's me , because you hear yourself different . Right , you have an idea in your head of how you actually talk and that's not actually sometimes the way you talk . So when you hear yourself the first time , you're like , oh my God , this is terrible .

There there may be . You know , you feed in 5 or 10 hours worth of your audio that you've done on your podcast and you have AI do its magic to it and you have it read some sentences and you then maybe , after it reads some , maybe you should read some and just see , is it all that different of how you sound that is actually different from what's real .

So that may be something Just keep in mind . We all have this impression of ourselves . I do this sometimes too , I'll look in the mirror myself all of about you know 10 seconds a morning when I'm , you know , just get to make sure my hair is going the right direction . Right , and so we all have , and I think sometimes this pertains to our voice too .

I think we have some idea of how we come across , and I'm not sure it's always accurate .

I have to do an economic update video every two weeks , so I created a GPT to structure my episode scripts based on new data . Makes the process quicker . See that to me . Yeah , it's an assistant . It's you know , if you're having AI do your hobby for you , you should probably look for another hobby . That's a great point .

If you're podcasting for business , use AI passion versus profit . That's from Edge .

There's some things that may help and again , these are all edge cases and I'm not trying to rebuke or say anything to anybody , but there's some edge cases on this one but it would , it could be helpful in a situation where maybe you're not able to speak like you need to , but you've got great writing content , and so how great would that be is , if you're a

writer but not a speaker , to be able to write it and then have a AI voice actor , so to speak . Again , jody , sorry , but AI voice do it for you . They're not technically actors because they're not really alive , so I'm just going to call him a voice .

Throw it in a chat GPT , do this , it'll make the courses for you . I saw one . Literally it was like a chat GPT will make the script , will write the copy , will make the course . Blah , blah , blah the copy . We'll make the course . Blah , blah , blah . Three easy payments 317 . Click here and be a millionaire . And I was like that makes me want to curse .

I was like , no , it's not that easy . I'm like is it possible ? Yes , is it guaranteed ? I don't see that there on the page .

I mean , there are people who are way better writing than they are speaking , and if they could write out their podcast I remember Randy Cantrell in the early days . He would write I think I've heard him say this on his podcast he would write out the script and have it all ready and then he would go through and read that and he'd put that script online .

I think he's moved away from that , but some of us may just be better at writing and so having that AI voice cover it for us may be less distracting .

Just to be 100% honest , those AI voices get it pretty good and if I'm stumbling and I can't read things and I'm not very good at it , you know , when you're trying to read something on , you know like , like you've been recording your book right , it's hard , it's hard .

What if you could just pull on your voice and let you , for the intention of just getting your book content read and you not having to sit in a recording studio for 19 weekends to get it done . I mean , that kind of makes sense to me , doesn't it ?

Oh , yeah , although I'm sure it's just a matter of time until kyle and cheryl , you know , have video and then we I mean there's already a musician I forget her name , but it's ai and her music's , all you know , done by professional producers and this and that .

And I remember there's a musician I follow on youtube and they're like the beauty of this is she doesn't get tired when she tours and she's always willing to do an interview and it was just a very polite and she's like as a musician . Let me be the first to wave the bird at you guys , like I'm sorry , I have to sleep .

I'm sorry , you know it was just kind of . it's like when people go well , you know we'll get back to the content , we have to do the stupid sponsor thing . So when they're like going well , you know our stupid musicians have to eat and sleep and , you know , want to get paid . So it was very interesting .

Jody says there are marketing agencies that use AI to give them a middle of the road what everyone else is doing ideas and then going in a complete opposite direction . That's not a bad idea . I'll give you an example .

My next episode of the School of Podcasting was pretty much done like in terms of me fleshing out my ideas and because I've been going to the movies and there's a lot of things that podcasters can learn from the movie industry right now , kind of like what Jody said , it's here's what they're doing , let's not do that , you know , kind of thing .

And so I asked ChatGPT last time like what can podcasters learn ? No , I went to no at first . I asked chat GPT . I said what can podcasters learn from the movie industry ? And it brought out stuff like oh , we are , we're both in the storytelling , you know business . Basically I'm like that's a good point .

All right , I'm going to throw that in there , you know . And then I went over to perplexity and I said what are the recent stats on the movie industry ? And it gave me like they lost 38% of their audience . And I was like , oh , that's good . And why did I ask perplexity ?

Because it gave me the link to where I could go and double check and verify the information . So there are times when I like it . I mean I could have asked Google , but then I'd get you know 10 results that are all ads that may not be , you know good for lack of a better phrase .

But yeah , by doing that , jody says , then they can come up with something new and interesting . Yeah , my whole thing is you can't be a thought leader if you're just quoting ChatGPT because all their stuff is , you know , years old . So Bandrew says Bandrew in the house .

It was your constant discussion about chit chat going at the end that made me get to the point and move chit chat to the end . Yeah , I've just never , and I don't mind like we do .

You know jim would be like oh , it's national hot dog donut , whatever day he's going , you know , but we don't spend six minutes on the fact that it's , you know , sausage , maple , sausage day or whatever .

You know , but there are ads in your shows . By the way , every time you see somebody at a desk and they just so happen to have their laptop open and you're seeing the Apple logo . Trust me , they're getting paid to have that on that . Yeah , steph says I like when people have chit chat at the end to to fade out of the podcast .

I mean , my favorite is Sam and James Cridland on Pod News Weekly and at the end they're just like so how was your week ? I was doing this and doing that , and it's not that people don't want to know that they just again . The title of the episode is the Promise .

You should get to that as quickly as you can , and so I'm going to , so I'm going to make a case against that .

So I think oftentimes when I listen especially when I listen to long-form content the views expressed by those individuals during the podcast are filtered through oftentimes the week or the month or whatever's going on in their life at that time , and sometimes what makes the content the most interesting is hearing it through the lens of how they're actually feeling .

And so when I do get a little banter , I get a little chit-chat in the beginning , I get a feeling for where that person is in the moment . It's not just someone coming to give me information . I hear it from a true and a . I hear it from an emotional standpoint . It's almost like emotional communication .

Right , I know how their week's been or I know what they're thinking or I know . Sometimes there's even banter in the beginning . That's going to add flavor to the content . Later in the show there may be some things said . There were some callbacks that are happening . Whatever that do it . It also helps me get to know them a little bit .

Now , can you do that at the end ? Yeah , but I kind of like it . I kind of like it in the beginning . I like to know they're my friends , right ? I have listened to these shows because I like these people , and so I want to know what's the first thing we do when we get together as humans . Hey , we did this morning in the pre-show how was your week ?

How was your week ? Yeah , we don't go right to the . What are we going to talk about ? I want to know who you are . So I think , if you're trying to make a connection , if you're really trying to be a human podcast , I actually think that banter up front is kind of important .

It's just like when you're at a party with a bunch of new people and you don't know who those people are and you go in and have that small talk with them , right , that small talk is actually kind of important to get to know them a little bit .

Oh , you like this or you're like that , and so I kind of think it gives us some social clues to help us better understand the people that we're listening to .

But I literally go like , if you look at , if I have an app that lets me skip , I have it set to 10 minutes . It drives me nuts . But I know other people that love that banter because they know his two . You know one's a producer and one's his assistant and they tune in for the banter and they could care less who the guest is .

Tamada , I'm like for me , best first impression , move it to the end . But I get your point If you know the guest , because it's weird , I'm that way . I used to hate Marc Maron's opening banter because he always gets kind of political and blah , blah , blah .

But there are times when he'll be like I was doing this gig in Albuquerque and this guy comes up to me after the show Like there were stories , but meanwhile he was interviewing you know somebody . I wanted to . So yeah , I can go both ways . I just think , as a first impression to a brand new listener maybe not , but there is a back forward button .

I mean , if you want a podcast that's going to have information Tracy Hunt is another one of their hosts and there are times I'm like , when we get done , I'm like you know , I'd like to know a little bit more about Luke . Like when we get done , I'm like you know , I'd like to know a little bit more about Luke .

Like I wish they would let their they have a host on Saturday that does this , does an episode , and she kind of I forget what her Fontana , francesca , fontana , and Francesca adds a little bit of commentary in her . It's like she sneaks in these little jabs . Now it's news , so she has to be careful when she's doing this .

But you get a little glimpse into her personality , right , and we just spent in the AI conversation a bunch of time saying it's really more important that they get a glimpse of who you are . I think if they like that glimpse . They'll stay , regardless of if the information is valid for what they're doing or not .

If they start to like you as a person , I think they'll keep showing up . I have no emotional connection to any of those hosts on the Wall Street Journal podcast , I mean , so I think it's more important .

The other thing , too is there's chit chat that's interesting , and then there's chit chat that's really boring , you know , but I guess that depends on , again , if I am a brand new holder yeah , I have the holder right , I think .

There are some who don't . You know if I'm going to get , if I'm going to YouTube and I want to get my washing machine fixed and I want the instructions on how to do that . I don't want the guy to banter on and on about how his date was . Just get to the freaking washer , right .

But if these are people that I like and I want to know more about them , give me some banter . Let me know what's going on in your world . I don't know . Listen , we vote with our downloads , right , that's it . So you do you and what makes you comfortable . You do it your way . Don't tell other people how to do it .

You do and if it's successful , keep doing more of it If you like it . Right , I mean .

Because somebody asked me once it was interesting they were trying to figure out like my ratio of like how many sound effects per minute and they're like well , how do you know when to like ? Sometimes you'll put in a sound effect or you know you'll throw in a buzzer . You know , whatever Like , do you do that ? Like every X amount of I'm like .

I just sometimes I feel like throwing in , especially on the school of podcasting . There's some days when I don't know I'm in a sound effect kind of mood and like every you know time there's a pause , I'm throwing in a ha ha or something whatever , and I go , and other times I just don't . I go .

That's 100% based on you know , what we need right here is a bell or something . Sometimes you just need a little rim shot or air horns , whatever you're doing , and there's yeah , sorry , I was looking for David Lee Roth and that was not David Lee Roth , but yeah , also , dr had thrown in a question . I have that peg .

So if she's like , are they ever going to answer my question , I'm like , yes , we are . But I guess for me , if the AI is disclosed , I'm okay and it'll be interesting to see . I noticed in that clip we played that we now definitely hear them breathing and I hear them somewhat , not st stutter , but they'll be like , well , well , maybe you know .

So it's like jeff said , this is as bad as it's gonna get . So it'll be interesting to see you know what's where it goes in the future .

When john dumas started doing his podcast , nobody was doing it that way right , and I shouldn say nobody . I'm sure there were a few that were Right , not a business , not his topic daily .

You can listen to us if you want to , but listen to you in doing this and do it because you like doing it , or you like doing it because you're making a crap ton of money doing it . That's okay too . If you're making a crap ton of money and you like it , that's okay . Keep doing that as well .

I'm thinking of starting a show on my own and trying to find the time . This is actually not coming out this week at the School of Podcasting , but probably the week after that . Anytime you say I want to add what are you subtracting ? Because there's only 24 hours in a day . So one of the things I subtracted is watching live television .

I never underline bold , never watch live television because I can fast forward through the . I can watch a whole football game in about 20 minutes and you end up with this weird like on the remote . It's up left , enter , and then it plays and then , cause it's I ? Just they run , they fall down . As soon as they're down , you hit fast forward .

You see them get up , they walk back to the huddle , they wub out and then you hit pause and then you play and I can . You can go through all the commercials and the 87 shots of Taylor Swift clapping in the booth .

You know , you just fast forward through all that stuff Because in theory , a football game is an hour and it's you just fast forward through the boring parts , but that's one of the things I do , jim . How do you handle , like you know , time management .

I'm so busy , I'm busy , so busy , I'm so , I'm busy , I'm so busy , we're just busy . I think we've kind of told ourselves that we don't have any time for anything because we're so busy .

I think if you actually took a hard look at your schedule , you're less busy than you think and I think there's large swaths of time in there that are pretty wasted , like you're not really doing anything . Okay , maybe not you , I'll speak for me .

There's large swaths of time in my schedule and I'm just goofing around , right , and we need some of that goof around time . We need some of that relaxation time , we need some of those things . But I think it's . I think time management starts with honesty taking a good , hard , honest look at what we're actually doing and saying do I need it ?

And if I don't stop doing it and I think there's some I think there's gigantic spaces in there where we're just wasting time . And I'm not talking about relaxation , I'm talking about sleeping . Please sleep , people need sleep , so please do that kind of thing .

And I'm sure there's a bunch of you screaming at me right now because you are so busy , you're angry and you're frustrated . Well , that , my friends , maybe you need a few less things in your schedule . Maybe you need to lighten a few things up a little bit . In some cases you're going to need to cut some stuff .

If you want to add something in , you're going to have to cut something out , right to get that done . I just know for me I have a hard time saying like , oh , I didn't have time for that , because I did , I just chose not to do it . Right , I chose not to . You know , like my garage is a mess .

I think today I'm fine , I'll finally get out there , and it would be super easy for me to blame all kinds of other things on not getting to it . I've been so busy . No , actually , I just didn't want to do it . You know , I didn't want to get out there and do it .

So , not you I'm talking about me on this one but I think we all have a lot more time than we think .

I'm gonna like start ruining mini disc or whatever , but I can set a time on it and then hit stop and it starts counting down . But even better if I stop this and then clear it is when you go okay , I'm gonna work on this , for you know how long has it taken me to do this ?

And now , now it counts up , and so it's one of those things when this is on in front of you and it's what's fun is . I remember there's a thing called Tamada , tamada , tamada .

There's something training where you go 25 minutes on for so many minutes off and I will go okay , so I will set this to 25 minutes and then I will hit start and I'm amazed at how ADD I am , because I will look up and I'm like I've only been doing this for six minutes . How am I already on YouTube watching something I shouldn't be watching ?

That's the part that gets me , and Jim has hit the nail on the head . On Sundays is my podcast day and I will start working on the School of Podcasting around one o'clock . I will publish it around midnight because I have all day to do it .

Now there are other days when I got to do this and then I got to do that and , like this week , I got to do two podcasts on Sunday because I'm going on this trip , I got to pack a suitcase . I got all sorts of stuff done . What do you know ? I got the podcast done in about two hours maybe three hours , you know and it's published . Because why ?

Because I got to do another one . So there are times when I think whatever time we give ourselves to do something is how much time it takes , and one of the best lines from this movie last night was about Saturday Night Live . They said we don't go on because we're ready . We go on because it's 1130 . It's time , and so I'm doing research .

I did some last night about the movie industry how does this apply to podcasting and I got a fair amount of stuff and I'm recording that tomorrow . Now I could keep doing more research , but I got to have an episode out on Monday . So whatever I have is whatever you're going to get and hopefully that's good stuff and it brings value . You've lost a limb .

Do not call Dave on Sunday . Sunday is his podcast day and you know it's just one of those things where they know and they'll call . If they call , they're like hey , I know it's podcast day , like I just need to know , do you know where the key is to the such and such ?

And I'll be like it's under the toolbox in the garage and the blah , blah , blah , you know blah . Okay , great Thanks , and they're gone . So it's , you know , setting expectations . Let your family know , yeah .

You know , say , hey , I'm going to go out and get the garage clean , which I'm going to do today Go out and get the garage clean and three o'clock is the deadline , and at three o'clock I'm stopping , regardless of what I've gotten done at that point , so I can go do this . Otherwise , for some of us it's an endless task .

You might be out there for 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 hours getting some of those things done . So it is you know , we you've said some great things from a time management standpoint . One of them just be set some deadlines that are sooner than the last second that you have to get it done .

You know you prep for a podcast conference , right , that session that you're going to do . Dave , you do a lot of sessions at podcast conference . Once you get , once you start prepping for that thing , you will literally prep till right , up until the point that you go on and do you really and maybe you do , but do you really need all that prep time ?

I mean , some of that time may be wasted time . You might have been ready the Wednesday before you can set it aside . Come back to it 10 minutes ahead of time , right ? So the deadline setting may be what you need as well .

But yeah , and it's funny because just by doing it and all of a sudden it'd be like ding , here's a place where you could tell this story , or ding . And it's because I've quit thinking about the material . Now I'm just like let's , let my , let's use ADD for good and now like , how can I take a tangent here ?

I like it , yeah , yeah it's , but that's really it . And then just I mean , jim brought up sleep . I now have the woman in the tube tell me at midnight it's midnight because I have a thing at 1030 that says I use an app called streaks . So I'll be like , yes , I worked out for 30 minutes today . Yes , I had eight glasses of water .

No , the scale didn't go down . I have all these things that I'm keeping track of . So 10 , 30 , she reminds me hey , fill out your streaks , cause at this point if it was going to get done , it's done . And in theory , at 10 , 30 , I was supposed to think about going to bed . That is not working . So now at midnight she goes hey , it's midnight .

And at that point it's like whatever you're doing , pencils down , test is over , go to bed . And because Craig had a great point , when you say where was it , it's something like oh , here we go . I don't have time means I don't want to , and that's for me .

I find myself when it's taking me a long time to do an episode and I'm out in the kitchen again looking for chips or something . I'm like why am I in the kitchen ? And I'm like oh , you're not super confident . This is great . I've done all the research , but I'm still not 100% sold .

This is going to resonate and that's where I'm like well then , figure something out here . But I'm procrastinating because I'm not . Again , I don't want to do it . I'm like I'm not sure this is going to go to bed or going to work .

You got a 15 minute task to do . Just get it done or write it off , you know , if you don't want to do it and it's not bringing you any value , get rid of it . Stop obsessing about it , just get . I think a good example , dave , is if you went into a week . Now you've got a streak .

You've always published a school podcasting show on Monday for a thousand years and that'd be a tough , tough , that'd be a tough day for you . That if on sunday night you got done and you said this episode is crap , but I'm gonna miss a week . Yeah , I'm just looking at you thinking about that scenario . It's tough , I know it's hard .

Yeah , but would you release the crap if it was really now ? You don't release crap , but I have , I have released . It's hard , yeah , but would you release the crap if it was really now ?

Because I know people listen to my show and I'll be like okay , nancy's not going to get anything out of this , but I think Doug Cadill will , or whoever . So I kind of have an idea . But there are times when I'm like do I hit publish ? And this is where when I hear the phrase that's good enough , I'm like that's not my goal , my goal is amazing .

And I landed on eh , good enough , better than nothing . And what's weird is there have been times when I've had those episodes that I'm like I cannot wait to hit publish on this and nothing but crickets . And then there's the episode you go eh , I guess I'll publish this , it's all I got Click . And people are like that was amazing .

And I'm like , really , because I was pretty sure nobody was going to like it . But I always like , I think ahead , like I know , hey , I got this thing I'm going to , and I'm not even sure when I come back on Sunday so I got to record two episodes this week so I started earlier been doing research .

Today I'm going to record it and then tomorrow I'm going to record the following week , so I'll have two in the can . So yeah , tr says welcome to Dave's True Confessions . That's my job here is to get Dave to confess to things .

Well , my last episode of Building a Better Dave , which is a very strange podcast it's literally just an audio diary and I just documented it that my James Cridland said some really nice things about me and then I forget who else did and I go . It's weird because I started off my goal was to be the podcast consultant .

I wanted to be like if somebody says , oh , you should start a podcast , I wanted people to go . Oh , one person , the guy you got to talk to , is that guy right there , right , and based on things I've heard in the like I , I was just on a call this week and somebody said , holy cow , a legend is in the chat room , dave Jackson is here .

And I was like who , what , huh , you know , and I hopped on a call . I thought it was just like a hey , let's get together and , you know , hang out kind of thing on .

I think it was Thursday night and when I popped in this guy's room in his podcast on a stream yard , it was interesting and I didn't understand it because he literally was like , oh , it's Jim Cullison . Like like he , for a good 15 seconds , maybe even a minute , he could not put out a sentence , like he was just freaking out .

And so , on one hand , that was my goal to be the guy . In fact , joe Pardo , god bless him gave me the nickname . He's like oh , you're the Dave Jackson . I'm like what does that mean , you know ? So it's weird when you kind of partially , I feel achieve that goal but yet when somebody gives me compliments , my brain goes and just bats them .

I don't understand it . So I was like I guess this is imposter syndrome . So I don't know how do you feel when you go to your events and people are like oh , jim , mr Cullison , how are you Like ? Look seriously , mr Cullison's my dad .

And you're like well , thank you , Thanks for listening , or thanks for doing that , and then I try to quickly turn it to them . That's what I do Thanks for all that . You do , like it's this , the work that you're doing is super important . We couldn't do what we do if you weren't out there doing what you're doing .

And so it takes that moment off of me and maybe a weird , you know , media kind of thing and puts it back on the other person to say it's just . I was just the other day I walked into a room and the instructor gave me this really nice intro and as I came up they clapped and I said no , let's give it up for , let's give it up for Al .

You know you try to I try to diffuse that , you know , and everybody laughs and then we get down to business . But thanking , like listen , if someone comes up to you and they recognize you and they're like hey , you like that took a little bit of courage on their end to do it . You're a big deal to them and don't make it awkward , just say thank you .

Thanks , it's great to meet you . Thank you , tell me a little bit about you . You know that's like that , saying you know okay , enough about me . Why don't you tell me some more about me ?

That makes me feel wonderful . And then I'd be like hey , you said you listen , and then I just turn it into a customer survey and I'm like why do you listen ? What do you like ? What do you wish I would do less of , or whatever . So yeah , I always turn it around on them . But uh , but yeah , I always .

The one that I I want to never hear is like emily pro cop said she saw we rode in an elevator at podcast movement and she said I was too scared to say anything . Oh yeah , and I go . What part of me is scary ? Like my bottom teeth are a mess , but other than that I'm like you know well , but david takes it .

I don't want to be that creepy dude that is like you're Adam Curry , right , or John C Dvorak or any of those right . You run into Joe Rogan , you know you'd be at first . Now there's some people who have no problem with that . They'll jump right in and do those things , but I don't .

I'm always a little cautious and I always kind of think maybe they don't want to be talked to today . That's kind of what stops me . It's like maybe they had a hard day already and they don't want another person to talk to want another person to talk to .

And then it dawned on me like after she was gone , like that was the mom of the Waltons . And I go to my gate and there sits Mama Walton and I called my sister because my sister knows like any trivia from when . I'm like who is the mom on the Waltons ? She's like it's Michael Learned . I'm like okay , thank you .

And I'm like I'm going to go say hi to Mama Walton . She's like all right , that's cool , like all right . So I hang up the phone , I go over and I go are you Michael Ernie , by any chance ? And she goes . I am and I go . I grew up watching you and she goes .

Well , because she's , you know , 80 , something now right , and she made her day because she probably doesn't get recognized anymore , and I said I love my family would sit around and watch you growing up . She goes . I do that now with my grandkids and we had a great time . And then I got to watch her purse as she went pee .

So I was like I'm calling my sister , I'm like I'm walking , I'm watching mama walton's purse , you know . But yeah , I was always like you don't want to be what's the ? There's a new singer , leo pod , neopata . She's got two names . Most people do .

Now I think about it , but she's kind of she's gotten way famous super quick and is kind of saying , hey , can we get some boundaries going here ? So I always don't want to have that person like , hey , are you , michael learned ?

You've got unlimited coaching and this week my buddy , greg , is a guy who did not grow up with computers and we met probably three or four times this week getting him up to speed and I'm teaching him file management and all sorts of fun stuff . So it's unlimited coaching because it's unlimited . And then you have an awesome community as well .

Use the coupon code COACH when you sign up , and we use PodPage . Now , if you want to check out PodPage , go to TryPodPagecom , or if you want to learn PodPage , go to LearnPodPagecom , and right now you're watching us . Use Ecamm . If you go to AskThePodcastcoachcom , slash Ecamm , and Ecamm has two Ms .

And if you need more Jim Collison and you know who doesn't need more Jim Collison then just go over to theaverageguytv . Check out his show Home Gadget Geeks . Always a good time over there . And it's time for the featured the new featured Wheel of Names from our awesome supporters .

Will it be Greg over at Indie Drop-In , or Ross , or the girls over at Keep the Flame Alive , or Craig from AI Goes to College ? We will find out as I spin the wheel . Round and round it goes , and it's Randy Black Bible-Bytes If you're looking for some inspiring faith , one byte at a time .

You'll see a link in the show notes when you're listening to this later . But , randy , thank you so much for being an awesome supporter .

You should be like Randy and go over to askthepodcastcoachcom slash support and , as we continue on , if this show saved you time , saved you money , saved you a headache , or maybe we just kept you educated again , go over to askthepodcastcoachcom slash awesome and be an awesome supporter .

And don't forget , when you sign up as an awesome supporter , we give you a giant shout out when you first join on board and you get the show advertising free , because I'm now letting Buzzsprout put in little snippets along the way . So if you're tired of those little snippets , so yes , craig from AI Goes to College was like oh , so close .

And Jody I'm always pulling for Jody Krangel because she's always out here in the chat room . Thanks for everyone for doing that . Here's a fun question how are we doing on time Perfect , because we're talking about starting and using AI . Here's one it said . This is from Jordan Wing . It says so to try to keep a long story short .

I've been wanting to start making some kind of content and creating a kind of brand for the longest time , but I don't have many of the technical skills or resources and want help and advice getting started . So I wanted to start there . You don't have to be super technical .

If you've ever attached a picture to an email , then you can upload an MP3 file to you know your media host .

If you've ever been in the car and your jam came on and you turn up the radio and you're like celebrate , good time , right , and then the phone rings and then you turn down the radio so you can hear the phone , you , my friend , know how to mix audio , so it's not quite as crazy think it is .

It says I have a lot of ideas and a good vision of what I want this to be and where I want to take it , but I know I have to start somewhere . Yep , right , where you are is a good place in my book .

I don't have much of any experience in editing or design , but I'm kind of tech savvy , which is interesting because up there it says I don't have many of the technical skills , but down here they say I'm kind of tech savvy , so I'm a little confused . As far as equipment , I don't have much .

I have a couple of good microphones , an iPad Pro and my iPhone , and that's pretty much it . I don't have a great space to film in at the moment . Ah , there's the fun magic word , remember . Not every book needs to be a movie , so I figured I would start maybe with podcasting and small-form content from my iPhone . Not a great choice .

I do want to grow , though , and eventually have a YouTube channel and more . I live in LA , but I don't have many connections . I work in retail and I want to do this eventually make it a job . I just don't really have an idea of where to start .

If anybody has some helpful advice or is willing to listen to my ideas and help me get started , or tell me things I need to get in order first , I would be very grateful . I want to do whatever it takes to get my ideas off the ground , and so here's the thing after reading that , jim , do you hear a passion to really do a podcast .

And then you on the logic side , where I'm like well , I want to do this . The thing I didn't . I always say , just because you can do a podcast on your phone doesn't mean you should . But they're also really what they're saying is I want to start a YouTube channel .

When I see that at the end , blah blah , blah , youtube channel , blah blah , blah film , and I'm like okay , so you could just set up your phone , you know , horizontally , and talk into the camera , and that would be a place to start . Start with what you have . You don't need a .

You know , now , again , the number one thing in video is the audio , and so I would get some sort of lavalier or something to pin on you and , you know , throw that into the phone . But I just to me a . Again , you don't have to be that nerdy . I always recommend starting with audio because but , as we mentioned this morning .

Well , you know , if you do video , people know you're not ai and that may be more of a thing going forward than we think . But I just , yes , make some stuff . Let's get going .

You know the mics and the lighting and the setup and the conversation and how it works and you know it was almost like podcasting with training wheels to be on somebody else's show , as you know , just as a fill-in . They did all the mechanics of it . So I never started a podcast from scratch . I mean , I guess I kind of did it work .

Well , you know , we started those podcasts from nothing but I had a built-in audience still at that point . So it was . You know , I've never had to go . I think about when I hear that person . I think about a person who doesn't necessarily have a built-in network . The average person probably just doesn't .

Yeah , you got some friends on Facebook and maybe some LinkedIn stuff , but say , you go to create a podcast . That's completely different from a lot of the things that you're doing . It's a tough road to hoe if you're starting from scratch and you don't have all those connections to get that podcast to , and you release it .

Your first one gets 12 downloads and you're like , oh , and you start by saying I don't care how many downloads they're going to get . You know , I just doing this because I want to do it . And then you get 12 and you're like , oh , okay , maybe I didn't really feel that way yeah as long as I help one person I know yeah

I guess I should have one too , you know , and that's not a reason to start a podcast . You know well , everybody else is doing it . Yeah , it was just one . I was . You know . Sp says V tubing and that's halfway to AI video streaming recording . Yeah , it's .

I like the fact that they said YouTube because , as opposed to a podcast on YouTube , I'm like , no , you're actually a YouTuber , but yeah , I , just when I saw that , I was like . So I told them . I'm like , hey , why are you doing this ? Who is it for ? What are you going to talk about ? To achieve your why ?

Those kinds of things and the fact that if you want to do this for a job , you got to do it for a minimum of well . I shouldn't say minimum somewhere in the vicinity of two to three years is where you'll start generating income . Please prove me wrong , but it usually takes years to generate an audience .

Now , if you already have an audience , well that's a different story . But just because you have an audience on Instagram doesn't mean those people come over and watch you on YouTube . That used to be one of my favorite things when I worked at Libsyn .

You'd have somebody with this insane number of people on Instagram or Twitter or whatever , and then they'd kind of ever so politely be like don't you know who I am ? Like there's no way I'm getting 1,200 downloads . I have 10,000 people following me on Twitter and you're like yeah , that's really good . And they're like what ?

And you're like , yeah , and they like what . And you're like yeah , but I have 10,000 people . Yeah , again , not everybody listens to podcasts , so that's always fun . Speaking of YouTube , we had this one . I went on time Perfect . So it appears that on YouTube , my typical audience retention for an episode is about 25% . Did we do this one already ?

This seems maybe anyway , 25% . I couldn't say what it is on usual podcast platforms . Well , I can't guarantee , but I would strongly guess that it's higher than 25% .

I couldn't say what it is on usual podcast platforms Well , I can't guarantee , but I would strongly guess that it's higher than 25% on usual podcast platforms because there's not a metric that anyone else can check for dot , spotify , dot com .

It feels discouraging because what that means in a fact is that only two to four people on average are actually listening to the whole way through . My philosophy has always been if I get double digits on my listeners for an episode , then the effort to make the episode was worth it .

So we're back to your 12 downloads , jim , but I guess in my mind I assumed a view meant that works . Yeah , we had . I remember talking about this one before because a view was one second because Randy Black figured it out .

So just one of those things again where you have to you really do have to figure out your why , because this guy went to YouTube and now he's bummed because he , from what I understand , on YouTube 50% is like you're amazing on YouTube .

I am a little my old teaching , you know , brain awakes when I look at my stuff in Apple , because to me 70% is average and I want to be above average . I'm looking for 80 and above , but that's one of the things I'm going to be doing in November is I'm going to . I haven't done a listener survey in a while , probably like 2021 , something like that .

I was looking through some stats and I looked at my completion rate in Apple and Spotify and I was like that's not where I want it to be . I'm getting too many 60% . And I was like , well , it's time to find out what my audience wants so I can figure out and give it to them . So keep that in mind . Here's another one talking about starting a podcast .

I've been working on my podcast for a while . I've got the concept , I got the title , got the story and even started writing episodes . I'm close to finishing the first two , making good progress on the next two and have many more ideas ready to go . So there's a part of me that's like so what's the problem ? I've invested in a good microphone .

I have a lot in place . Okay , my therapist has encouraged me to record and share something soon . I would echo that , but I'm unsure whether to post it right away . I feel like I'm almost there , but could use some advice on the best next steps . Do people usually post their first draft right away or wait until they polished everything up .

Unfortunately , people publish their rough draft . That's not what I recommend . I'm worried that fear might be holding me back . Well , it sounds like it is , because you have everything except pulling the trigger . But also , I want to make sure everything is good as it can be before sharing it , which is a great attitude .

I really appreciate any guidance or advice you have from those who've been through this before . So , yeah , I really recommend that you get somebody to listen to it , not to rip it to shreds , but to let you know what's working and if there was a part that was boring , like , hey , can you do something here to make it a little less boring ?

And then just realize that . You know , I love the attitude , I want this to be great and you know , do what you can to make it great and let it go and realize that when you hit episode 10 , you're going to listen to episode one and go , I don't know . Thoughts Jim .

I've never run into them , I don't know who they are . They're not part of our live show .

They've never sent me a note about the podcast and I'm always surprised Like it's like all these people that listen I have no idea who they are , and like it's like all these people that listen I have no idea who they are and yet they still listen all the time and they find great value in it .

I got to trust a little bit in that area of hey , I'm getting these because I always doubt my numbers . You know I get them like on Home Gadget Geeks . You know it's 400 or 500 , maybe something like that , and I never really hear that much from people and I'm like fake numbers . Are those bots ? Are those right ?

We fill in the blanks , right , who are those people ? And then , out of the blue , somebody will send me an email , be like oh , hey , long time listener . You know I've been listening for 10 years . You sparked something that I needed to ask you about , right ? So I just think you got to at some point .

One you're never going to get those unless you actually get going on it .

They keep coming back because they found a friend . They trust you , they like you , which is great . Don't piss them off , by the way , you , which is great . Don't piss them off , by the way . Yeah , you know . Yeah , I just I think you just gotta trust it at some point and it kind of goes back . You know you gotta have a mission .

We just had simon sinek on our podcast and he's the big why guy . Right , yep , you gotta know your why what ?

Yeah , and then in terms of getting people to listen , drive people to your email list , jeff says , is so important , especially with all the algorithms and the AI , because that's where Glenn the Geek he has his Patreon group , that's where Glenn the Geek he has his Patreon group and those people , like he has a group of them , like a subgroup of his group , that

listen to every episode and like that guest was crap or whatever , like they're brutal , but he wants that's what he wants Brutal honesty . How can I do this better ? You know , dan says from based on a truestorypodcastcom . I like to think of it from the perspective of the podcast that I listen to .

I don't reach out to most of the creators , even because I wanted to be the cool kid that taught the high school class . So I had graduated , blah , blah , blah , and there were times when I just thought , well , I'm even going in .

I had like two or three people and we'd talk and I'd hang out and I was trying to be the cool guy and blah , blah , blah , and I've had them come up to me now , like 30 years later , and , go man , I love that Sunday school class . You have no idea how much I learned from that and blah , blah , blah and yada yada .

So you never know if you're making an impact . And then you find out you know decades later that like , oh , that was really cool , I really like that . Yeah , stephanie wants to know what show was Simon on ?

We're finding out , like you know , jay Klaus and Adam Curry and all these other people are using PodPage and we're like , oh , we should probably put them on the front page or something you know . So you never know who's listening .

That's why I always try to do something good , but that also , going back to the person with mic fright , will make that person not press record Because they'll be like , well , this is going out to the audience , insert reverb here . And then it's always weird because on one hand , they don't want to release it because the audience , and then they release it .

They get your 12 downloads and they're like , oh , there is no audience . And then , once it finally starts catching steam , then they start freaking out because people are listening . So it's always this weird roller coaster when you first start to go that way . At any rate , let's hit the music , jim . What's coming up ?

I know we're like four minutes early and I'm like you know what I'm like eh , we're kind of done , I'll make sure . Oh we forgot to do this , holy cow . You know , yes , exactly . Thank you to DR for the $20 Super Chat . We'd really do a mouthy broad media over there and again you could get the show .

I mean not that I don't like Super Chats , but you know she does this every week . I'm like , okay , it's fine , I appreciate it . I tried this morning to download a new money falling GIF , but the one I downloaded wasn't transparent so it didn't work . So I'm trying to figure that out . But yeah , I definitely deleted .

I had the subscribe thing that would occasionally pop up and so I made a new folder that says ask the podcast coach resources , do not delete . And so once I find the right stuff , I'll put that in there and all the fun dancing money and , you know , all those unfilled buttons will , will be showing back up , but jim , what's coming up on home gadget geeks ?

Lots of good chat and some good updates from Mike . It's available right now because I set a deadline to have it done before the show . Homegadgetgeekscom .

You know , when was the last time you saw an R-rated , you know comedy that you went , ooh , you know . So maybe that's part of it . There are a couple other things that they do Make sure you have a great experience , et cetera , et cetera . So that'll be coming out on the School of Podcasting Reminder no show .

Next week Dave will still be hanging out in it's not really Boston , it's south of Boston , but at Ecamm Creator Camp . So that should be fun hanging out with Doc and Katie , and some of my favorite YouTubers are going to be there . So that's half the fun . For that . I'm looking forward to that .

So I'll be coming back , hopefully much more ready to jump back into YouTube and do some fun stuff there . Thanks to the yeah , easy for me to say Dan , based on his truestorypodcastcom , and Mark over at podcastbrandingco . That's the place to go , you know , and use the coupon code coach when you sign up at the School of Podcasting .

We will see you in two weeks . Take care , and we'll see you soon .