We're All Awkward Creatures

confess I really love awkwardness. That might sound like a weird thing to say, but I find awkward situations, including my own, really funny and entertaining and in some way kind of heartwarming. My favorite letters at the Aska Manager website are the ones that involve awkwardness, like I once published a letter from a woman who had accidentally hugged her CEO on the elevator one morning. He was leaning past her to hold the door open, and she thought he was going in for a hug, so she just

went with it and embraced him. There was another letter from a person who found out that her mom had been emailing her boss to remind him that the daughter's birthday was coming up soon. I love those stories, and really, so much of Aska Manager is about here's this uncomfortable, potentially awkward situation. How do I handle it? And that is probably what has kept me happily doing the column for what eleven years at this point. Awkward situations are

just really interesting and entertaining, and they're so universal. We all do things that make us cringe. Even the most confident among us have those moments that still make our faces turn red when we think about them weeks later. It happens to everyone, and it definitely happens at work. Today, we have a special guest here to talk about awkwardness. Melissa Doll is the author of the amazing book cringe Worthy, A Theory of Awkwardness, and I think she loves awkwardness

as much as I do. Melissa, Welcome to the show. Hi, Hi, Thanks Alison, Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to have you here. You and I have talked about awkwardness before, and I just absolutely love cringe Worthy. Can we talk a bit about the book itself and then we'll just talk all things awkward? Yeah that sounds great. Yeah, what do you want to know? Well? I mean this is basically the greatest idea for a book ever for people who don't know it. Will you just describe it and

what made you want to write it? Yeah, so I talk about awkward Actually, I feel like I don't know if you are this way with your book. But sometimes, like when people ask me to describe my book, it's like it's like all words lead me and I'm like, um, um, I don't remember, but but I will do my best. Um. So it is. I am a writer for New York magazine for The Cut, and I cover psychology primarily um for The Cut, And I've written about psychology for the

last more than ten years. And one of the things I've always really liked about the job is, you know, I'll have some kind of question about human nature why do we do the things we do? And I get to you, you know, call up somebody who has been studying this for you know, for the last decade of their life or so, and who can explain it to

me in a thoughtful way. But I kind of couldn't find anything that explained the feeling of of cringing, the feeling of awkwardness, you know, that that like just that tension that kind of like permeates the room when someone's like makes a joke and it doesn't go over well, or the thing where someone assumes someone else's expecting and they're not. You know, I was just curious what could explain the psychology behind that feeling. So this book is kind of my attempt to do that. And let's actually

define awkwardness. How do you define it? I define it as it's so it's embarrassment. It's it's like the self conscious aspect of embarrassment. But I think what's different about it and what sets it apart? Because it is it is different, Like an awkward situation is not necessarily an embarrassing situation. So I think it's the conscious aspect of embarrassment, but with this stronger undercurrent of uncertainty, you know, like there's this element of what do I say next? What

do I do next? Like the social norms are not here to guide me. So that's how I defined it for the book. You came up with an overall theory of awkwardness, which you have called cringe theory. Will you talk about what cringe theory is? Yeah? So I really have come to believe that cringing kind of causes us to to ask some pretty surprisingly profound questions about ourselves. If you if you kind of pay attention to it, I think it kind of makes us ask ourselves, who

are you? How how do other people perceive you? And and who do you want to be? I think that cringing are it's the moments that make us cringe. Are these moments when we realize that the you that you kind of carry in your own head, this perception of yourself, is maybe not necessarily the way the world is seeing. It's kind of the moment we realize there's a disconnect between the person you're trying to present to the world and what you actually look like to the people around you.

So the idea is awkwardness is what happens when this polished version of ourselves that we hope we're showing to the world slips and we're exposed, and we worry that people are seeing maybe who we really are, but the parts that we prefer to hide. Yeah, exactly, exactly, So it's kind of like, yeah, I'll just leave it there, exactly. You talk in the book about the spotlight effect that we assume that other people are paying more attention to

us than they really are. This is I would imagine, probably at its peak when we're teenagers, but it stays with us, right it does. Yeah, I mean actually interestingly, they do say that self consciousness kind of fades later in adulthood, but certainly it's more of a human nature thing, it's not just a teenage thing. Uh. The spotlight effect is this idea that we think more people are paying attention to us than actually are. And there's this classic

experiment where they tested this. They had somebody show up to an experiment late. They kind of told them the wrong time on purpose, and before they went in the room, they they gave him this really silly T shirt with Barry Manilow's face on it. And so the person is already late and they show up and they're wearing this really silly T shirt. It's kind of this embarrassing moment. And then afterwards the experimenters interviewed, uh, all these folks and they one of the things they asked them was

how many people do you think remembered your shirt? And basically they thought, you know, maybe they thought ten people would remember, um, but really only five people remembered. So the kind of the moral of it is, it's interesting a lot of times when people write and talk about the spotlight effect, it's like the message that gets across is like, oh, no one's paying attention to you, you know, do whatever you want. It's it's not quite that. It's it's just not as many people as we think are

are paying attention to our ridiculous mistakes. Yeah, I feel like I see that and a lot of letters at asking Manager that people are just really seized with worry that everyone saw this relatively small, silly thing that they did. That You're right, the message can't be or don't worry no one is ever paying attention because certainly quite often people are. We just really overestimate I think how often

that's the case we do. It's just kind of you know, humans are kind of egocentric by nature, and all of us have have that tendency to one degree or another. But it's interesting, it's so interesting to me the kind of like link between awkwardness and kind of feeling uncomfortable in social situations and egocentrism, because it's like it's it's like, you're worried what people think about you, but you know, of course no one is thinking about you as much as as much as you are, so, and I think

that's particularly can be true at work. Like you think, oh my gosh, I made such an idiot out of myself in that meeting. But no one's remembering what you said. They're remembering what what they said and whether it went well or not. So yes, unless it was really egregious, I think that's usually the case. Yeah, right, Yeah, you can't just make a blakant statement and say no one ever remembers. But yeah, but people definitely think it's happening

more than it is. Let's take a quick break here, and when we come back, we're going to hear about some real life awkward situations that Melissa put herself into when she was writing the book, including a visit she paid to a professional cuddler. One thing that is great about the book is that not only do you really delve into the science of awkwardness, but you also intentionally went out and put yourself in really awkward situations so

that you could write about them. You did improv so that you could write about it for the book, which just makes you my hero. And you even set up a session with a professional cuddler so that you could write about it. I was laughing out loud when I read that part of the book will you tell Us about the Professional Cuddler? Because I just cringe thinking about it. Oh my gosh. So that that part of the book

I had. I was almost done. I was almost done writing the book, and I had like, as you say, I had put myself into all these weird situations, and it kind of did that just as an aside. That was a later injection into the book. That's kind of something people ask about a lot, like, oh, like, you know, you did all these things, But the first draft of the book wasn't like that at all. The first draft

was more, um sharing other people's stories. And I kind of like pulled it all together and looked at what I had and I was like, oh, this just feels kind of cruel to like be writing about like this uncomfortable feeling from a distance, you know, like just to tell other people's embarrassing stories. It's just it's sort of weirdly didn't feel fair. And also it didn't feel as emotional reading it. Um, I think like having some distance between that that discomfort. So I decided to dive right in.

But anyway, yeah, that the cuddler part came. I realized, like the reason I wrote the book was, you know, in part because this feeling has driven me nuts for most of my life. You know, I just feel like I'm I'm often I'm just really sensitive to moments of awkwardness. But by the end of writing this book, and you know, taking improv classes and doing all these crazy things, it's like I just didn't feel it anymore. Like I would I would just do things that people would be kind

of amazed at. You know, you talk a lot about having uncomfortable conversations like work or or the kind of wisdom of being direct at work, and that was something I was always afraid of doing. But by the end of writing this book, I just kind of would dive right in. Sorry, I'm kind of I'm kind of digressing away from the cuddler. But basically that was sort of trying to get the feeling back in a way to be like, you know, like, uh, what will work, Like

will anything make me feel awkward again? And that was the thing that broke me. It was so weird. Oh my god, it was just like, oh my god, it was so weird. And now I'm embarrassed that, like I wrote about it, in a book, it's like, oh my god, what was It was the greatest moment in the book. I loved it. So for people listening who are like, what on earth as a professional cuddler? What on earth

is a professional cuddler? Well, so basically I think that they say, you know, they are all about the power of touch as kind of a you know, soothing, you know, healing mechanism thing. So people go to them who are maybe like feeling lonely or I don't know who, who have maybe gone through a breakup or something like that. It's just kind of like like the using the power of human touch is kind of what they what they say.

But I came across some story where some journalists had had done it, and you know, she talked a lot about how awkward it was. I was like, oh, great, that's great for my purposes, um, but yeah, it was just it was just seriously weird. Like I just I just like froze up and just like couldn't I couldn't even go through with it. I had to like run

out of there. I was too uncomfortable. So that's my favorite part is that you literally ran out and you did it before any cuddling had happened, right, No, we should she did not. We did not even touch each other. I was just like, I'm sorry, I have to go after it's too weird. So how is this supposed to work? You go and is it like an office or is it their home? Well, I think it's like their home or um or they can come to you, and I guess it's supposed to just be you kind of just

like hugged for a while or something. I don't know because I only lasted like ten minutes before I had to get out of there because I thought it was too uncomfortable. But I don't want to like dismiss I think that it can be an important thing for, you know, for people who are lonely or something. So I don't want to dismiss the profession of professional cuddling. But it

wasn't for me for you, that makes sense. I want to go back to something you or saying before that as you started to do these things, you became sort of immune to feeling awkwardness. Has that worn off or are you still there? It's funny, it's like it wears off when when I'm not thinking. It's like the power

of the book. It like when I'm immersed in it, and when I'm doing lots of interviews for the book, and when I'm thinking a lot about kind of what I truly believe to be like the magic of awkwardness, which is kind of like uncomfortable self awareness, but that can be really useful when I'm immersed in that, when I'm thinking a lot about it, I'm not afraid of

it anymore. Um. But there was a period where i wasn't doing a lot of press for the book, and it's like the feeling like came right back, and and so I think it's like it like works temporarily. So um. So anyone listening to this probably should read my book again and again, um to give the effect that makes sense definitely. Um. It almost seems like if you have steeped yourself in the messages of the book, which are this is so normal everyone experiences that, there's actually something

really useful and healthy about it. Like when you're really steeped in that message, that is going to really raise your immunity to feeling awkward. But yeah, I could see how when that's not right in the forefront of your mind, it would come right back. Yeah, because it's a I mean, it's unpleasant, you know, it's tense, it's not fun um.

But when yeah, when I'm remembering the message of the book, which is kind of just that these moments can the moments that make you cringe can kind of show you who you are and who you're who you expect yourself to be. And then I get some use out of the feeling. So we're gonna do one final break care and come right back, and we're back. You know. As funny as I find awkward situations, especially the ones that you put yourself into in the book, I think the

book's overarching theme is a really beautiful one. And I want to read a short paragraph from the introduction that I think sums up the whole message of the book. You can tell me if you dispute that after after so here it is, Melissa wrote, the things that make you cringe are usually the things worth sharing because they can help others feel less alone. It's an understandable reaction to flee the situation that makes you cringe, But what

if you could teach yourself to tolerate it. You could maybe learn to use the empathy as a portal to compassion for other people, and for yourself. Looked at in a certain light, cringing becomes a worthwhile feeling in emotion, worth exploring, not avoiding. Little humiliations can bring people together if we let them. The ridiculous in me honors the ridiculous in you. I love that. I love that way of looking at it, and I think it's part of why I love awkwardness, because it's not about making fun

of anyone. It's about seeing our common humanity. Yeah. I agree. I wasn't expecting to get this kind of common humanity vibe out of something as as silly as awkwardness, but I truly, truly did. Um. It's just like it's something we all experience. It's something that can bring us together if if you, if you look at it in the right light. So now you have a whole chapter in the book about awkwardness at work, which of course I loved.

And you opened that chapter by talking about an Ask a Manager letter where someone had been working from home because of a snowstorm and they're on a conference call with their coworkers and suddenly their roommate, who was also at home due to the weather, started having sex with his girlfriend. In the next room loud sex and the

people on the work conference call could hear it. And then after my letter writer got back to the office, some coworkers were even avoiding them because they figured that they had been openly watching porn on the call and felt really uncomfortable. It doesn't get much more awkward than that. So I love that you opened the work chapter with that. Yeah, I mean, I think, especially there's so much awkwardness in remote working situations. Um. Yeah, that that letter was so good.

It was so bad because it was like, what were you supposed to tell that person? The letter writer like, it's like if you usually the answer is to be direct, but in this situation, like, would that have made it worse? Maybe? Right? Yeah, because you have to be direct and sort of introduced sex into the conversation, which were so trained to not most of us are trained to not do at work. Yeah.

My advice to the person ultimately was, I think, yeah, if if they were assuming that you were watching porn, it's better to to speak up and correct that than to let them go on thinking that. And actually the person set in an update later took the advice, did tell people what was going on, and everyone had a good laugh about it, admitted that yes, indeed, they had thought the person was watching porn openly on a work

conference call. I felt much better once they knew it was really going on, and then it just turned into an office joke. Yeah, that was such a good one. But it's so funny how many of people who write into Ask a Manager are are dealing with some kind of like fear of awkwardness, some kind of like it's such a running theme, and I think that's why I love your side so much. That's why I love doing it. I think work is especially prone to awkwardness in some ways.

And part of it goes back to what you're saying about awkwardness being what happens when the face that you want to show to the world slips. Because work is generally a place where we're really trying to have a professional persona on, so there's a lot of room for it to slip, Like there's further to fall then there might be in a non work situation, if that makes sense, right.

And it's like there are rules, like there are rules that govern how you behave but there's not, but in some situations there aren't, and so there are these gray areas. But then it's a place that like, yeah, I think I think the workplace is particularly prone to awkwardness. And

I think you're right. There's all these unwritten rules about how to conduct yourself, and it's people don't always know exactly what they are or exactly what the nuance of those rules are, and it's so easy to run a foul of them if you even know what they are in the first place, which not everyone does. And you're thrown together with people you might not be the most comfortable social fit with, which is another element I think that ups the chances of awkward encounters. I don't know.

Work is really awkward in so many different ways. Yeah, it's a it's a weird place. And it does really matter in this situation what people think of you and what people's opinion of you is. So it's like you can tell yourself in other situations like, oh, like it doesn't it doesn't matter what what are the people think of me? But it does matter at work and a

lot of situations. So yeah, this mistakes are really high. Yeah, you can't just decide oh well, maybe my co workers did think I was openly listening to watching or watching porn on the conference call, so be it. I mean that you have to address it. But then how no one teaches you how to address something like that. What do you think, like, because it's one thing to just say,

you know, just just have the awkward conversation. But do you do you think that like there are ways people can learn how to get better at it, or can can learn how to address uncomfortable things, or do you think it's just a matter of just doing it. This is just the perfect setup for me to pitch my book, which is all about how to have uncomfortable conversations at work. But I think a lot of it is finding a way to be really matter of fact, like one of

the things that feels so uncomfortable. But the prospect of these conversations is they feel so emotionally fraught. And the more you can talk about it, whatever it is, in a very matter of fact way, using the same tone that you would use to say, hey, I can't get this printer cartridge to work, the closer you can get to that, probably the less awkward it's going to be. Not always, I mean, some things are just going to

be awkward and there's no way around that. And all you can do is just plunge in and get through it. But a lot you can minimize a lot of awkwardness, I think by being a matter of fact, and people

will take their cues from you. If you approach a conversation and you seem really tense and really worried, you know, you've been up for two nights dreading this conversation, and it shows people are going to feel really awkward because you're signaling to them that this is worthy of a lot of stress intention But if you're pretty calm about it,

it will usually go better. Not always, um, But I also think there's real value I think in accepting you know what, Sometimes it's just going to be awkward, and that's not a reason to not have the conversation. That's a reason to maybe feel weird about it and to feel you might feel a little anxious about it, but it's not a reason to not do it. And I think so often and people interpret that feeling as awkwardness as being a flag that they shouldn't even be in

that conversation. And sometimes that's true, but not always. Yeah, just to me, it's it's a signal that this is something we probably need need to pay more attention to, not less attention. Too often, not always been, but often yes, Yeah, I mean times when I think that wouldn't be true would be like if you were overstepping your boundaries and having an awkward conversation with someone about like their reproductive plans and another doctor. But but in a lot of cases,

I think you're right. The fact that you are having these emotions about it means there's something there that you've got to dig into and sort out exactly exactly, And it's kind of it's kind of like a it's like a painful self consciousness or self awareness. I think the feeling of awkwardness is. But it's it's yeah to me, I really, I really think it's so important to you have to dig into it and listen to it and

what is it trying to tell? You? Yeah. I always feel like one of the best things that people can do for their quality of life at work but also just in life in general, is to just make a conscious decision to embrace the awkward. Because we all have horribly awkward moments that we then cringe over later on, and I don't think that's going to stop. But there is real joy and real liberation and just embracing how awkward we all are and and finding it funny. And I it can be hard to do that, but I

think when you find your way there, it's such a relief. Yeah, that's that's another thing I read about in the book. I really believe that too, Like if you can kind of I mean, I feel like I'm a lesson I'm having to learn over and over again in life, is to just lighten up and nothing take things so seriously,

including myself. But um, but that really is part of the key to dealing with self consciousness and awkward moments is just to somehow lighten up and try to try to just like take some joy in just the absurdity of being human. Yeah, that was something I kind of ended up learning through writing the book for sure. I love that. Well, that is the show. Thank you for coming on and talking with us. Yeah, thank you so

much for having me. Melissa's book is called Cringe Worthy, A Theory of Awkwardness, and you can order it on Amazon or wherever books are sold, and you can read more of her work at New York Magazine, where she writes the Science of Us column. For The Cut, it was such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much, Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the

Ask a Manager Podcast. If you'd like to come on the show to talk through your own question, email it to podcast at Asking manager dot org, or you can leave a recording of your question by calling eight five five six work. That's eight five ft six nine seven five. You can get more ask a Manager at ask a Manager dot org or in my book Ask a Manager How to Navigate clueless colleagues, lunch stealing bosses, and the

rest of your life at work. The Ask a Manager Show is a partnership with how Stuff Works and is produced by Paul Deckett. If you liked what you heard, please take a minute to subscribe and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Play. I'm Alison Green and I'll be back next week with another one of your questions. M