My Coworker Gets Away with Everything

and welcome to the show. Today. I'm going to answer a bunch of shorter questions from people. The first question today is from someone with a terrible coworker. Hi. There so a little bit of back story. My coworker has a family member who is a pretty big deal in the company. Said relative has since retired, but her legacy sort of lives on. UM. My co worker seems to get away with everything. She treats her superiors with no respect,

does whatever she wants, never has any consequences. Have literally heard her say to our manager, no, I'm not going to do that and then just walks away. She's constantly complaining about how busy she is. I think in hopes that no one will assign her more work, but she never even does the work because she's assigned to her, and I end up getting stuck with it. I'm constantly seeing her on a computer looking at real estate, shopping,

just browsing the internet. Stop doing that, She's socializing with other people. She just never does any work, and it all falls on me. I'm getting sick of it. Whenever I try to go to my manager, I get I can't do anything about it. My hands are tied. If I try to go to above my manager, I get scolded saying that she's not your problem, stay in your lane and do your own work. You know, I'm just looking for what I can do to I don't have to pick up her slack. Getting a little fed up

with it. Signed at a loss and drowning and someone else's work. Okay. One of the biggest things to realize in a situation like this is that while your co worker is terrible, your manager is the problem too. Because your manager is not managing, she's not doing her own job, which is too deal with a situation like this now,

maybe it's not your manager herself who's the problem. Maybe it's someone above her who's made it clear that this co worker is untouchable, but someone somewhere in the management above you is just as much of a problem as this co worker is, if not more, because they're being negligent about the situation when they are the person who

is charged with dealing with it. Usually, when that happens, it's because the manager in question is a whimp and isn't willing to deal with the hassle and the awkwardness of addressing this kind of situation and going through the process of firing someone. I'm assuming firing would be the solution here because she sounds so far gone that it doesn't sound salvageable, although who knows. Maybe if someone in authority were willing to address the situation head on, maybe

she'd shape up. But for our purposes here, it doesn't really matter. What you need to know is that A people above you are aware of the situation, and b they've told you pretty clearly that nothing is going to change now. If you were asking me, how do I be okay with this? That would be a different conversation, one about how to find a way to be comfortable with such an obvious double standard for you and your

coworker but I don't think that's your question. I think you're asking about how to not get stuck with her work. There are some things that you can try that might work beautifully, or you might try them and discover that they don't work at all. But either way, if you do give them a shot, at the end of this process, you're going to have better data about your situation than you do right now, and you'll be able to make better decisions about where to go from there. So here's

what I would recommend. You. Presumably have a full time workload of your own, so when your boss asks you to take on your coworkers work, don't look for a way to cram it all in, especially if that would lead to you being overworked or stressed or pushing back other deadlines. Instead, when that happens, what you want to say is something like, I've got my hands full with X, Y, and Z right now, so I need to take some of that off my plate to make room for this.

In other words, don't be endlessly accommodating. Spell out for your manager all of the work that's keeping you busy. Be clear when you don't have room for more, be clear about what the trade offs are that you and she would have to make if she wants you to take it on and put that problem squarely back on

her plate, which is where it belongs. Does she want you to do less of something else to make room for this, or does she want to find some other solution, such as perhaps managing your coworker or bringing in other help, or whatever it might be that she decides to do. You're conveying here the solution to this problem is not going to be you. Now. Once you do that, you may get told that you just need to do it all, which would be tremendously unfair if your coworker is doing nothing,

but it could happen. If that happens, then at that point you need to accept, Okay, this is the situation. I'm gonna have to do all of my coworkers work plus my own, And then you can decide if you're interested in staying in the job. Knowing that those are the conditions that you've pretty much tried what you can try to determine that those are indeed the conditions, and then you can decide if you'd rather go elsewhere or not. Now there's one exception to this that can complicate things.

A little bit if you actually do have plenty of room on your plate to do your coworker stuff in addition to your own. In some ways that makes this harder, and in some ways it makes it easier. It makes it easier and that you can actually physically do the work without hardships, so you're not stuck trying to figure out how to cram it all in or taking on a bunch of additional stress. But it makes it harder, and that it's harder to push back on your boss.

You can't really say, well, if you want me to do X, then I can't do why when it's really clear to both of you that you actually could easily do both. So if that's the case, this is less about workload problem and more about just the fundamental unfairness of the situation, And that would mean that you've got to decide can you find a way to be okay

with that? Or maybe you can't. Sometimes it's doable, I mean sometimes you can sort of internally roll your eyes your coworker and at your management and know that it's ridiculous and unfair, but also no, okay, this is part of the package of working here. And maybe you decide that as frustrating as this is, it's worth it to you to stay there for other reasons. You know, you have a great commute or a good salary, or you

love the work, or whatever it might be. And in that case, maybe you focus on the fact that you're building yourself a great reputation while you're terrible. Coworker is building herself a pretty bad one, and that's going to limit her options if she ever wants to work somewhere else, or if her management at your company ever changes and someone more competent comes in to manage her, she's going to be in a very bad position. So you might find that just by focusing on that you can be

okay enough with the situation. Or you might decide that, no, this is too frustrating and you don't want to deal with it long term, and so you're going to look somewhere else. Either of those is a legitimate way to go. It's really just about getting really clear in your own mind on what will and won't change about the situation, making sure you test those assumptions by doing the sort of conversation that I described to your boss, and then

making decisions accordingly. But do try pushing back on the extra work first and seeing what happens, because if up until now you've just been taking it on with no pushback, that might be the element here that you can play with. Let's take a quick break here and then we'll come back with another question. This next question is from someone who's coworker might be leaving and she's interested in her job,

but nothing is public yet. Here's the question. I book co worker who is generally pretty nosy and shares a lot of gossip around the office, and she mentioned that one of my co workers who was in a position that I've been wanting is talking about leaving. My supervisor doesn't know this yet, and my coworker keeps calling me into her office to advise me on dropping somethings to my supervisor, so that when the time comes from this person says that she's going to leave, that I'll already

be talking to him about wanting to physician. I feel a little uncomfortable about this. It's not really my style and it doesn't really fit UM in general the conversations that me and my supervisor have UM, so I would really love some help. My first reaction here is that your coworker seems weirdly invested in this, not the one who's leaving, of course, the one who's to shing you

about this. It's one thing to mention to you that your other coworker might be leaving and that you could speak up since maybe be interested in moving into her job. That's fine for her to suggest once, but the fact that she keeps pulling you into her office to push about this is strange, and it makes me wonder what her agenda is. Maybe she's just a busy body. There's certainly lots of people who are just busy bodies. But I'm put off by how pushy she's being, and that's

something that is really none of her business. And I also wonder if you're other coworker, the one who might be leaving, even knows that this is happening, you know, if she talked to your pushy coworker and confidence. It's really not cool for your pushy coworker to be sharing that news with other people. That's just speculation, though, since I don't know all of those details. But those are the first two things that I was thinking about when

I heard your question. As for what to do, I do think it's fine to mention to your manager that you're really interested in moving into a position like your coworkers. Don't mention that you heard she might be leaving. That's not years to share. And I know that it doesn't sound like that's something you're contemplating doing anyway, but I just want to emphasize that. But you could say something like, you know, I'm really interested in moving into a role

like jeans. If that kind of position ever opens up here, I'd love to talk to you about it. That's it, just that. Don't keep bringing it up or anything like that. But now you'll have planted the seed in your boss's mind, and if you are really interested in moving into that type of job. It's a good thing to mention anyway, regardless of what might or might not be going on

with your coworker, because you never know. I mean, they could plan to add a new slot and hire someone for it without every realizing that you would have been interested. So it's good to mention regardless. And it's not at all weird to say something like that to your boss.

But do tell your pushy coworker that you appreciate the heads up, but you respect your other co workers privacy and you don't really want to keep talking about it until she's made a public announcement that she's actually leaving. And then if she doesn't really listen to that, and she still keeps ling you into her office and kind of hounding you about this, it's okay to just say, you know, I've got this. Thanks for giving me the

heads up, but I'm on it. Let's do another question, and also, if you would like to record your own question for the show, you can call eight by five four T six work. That's T six nine six seven five, and you can leave a voicemail for me to play on the show. Okay, here is the next listener question. This one is about food at work. Hey, Alison, this is Kelly um my question. So every day I take

my breakfast to work. I definitely bring my lunch, and I usually have a snack in the late afternoon, um the exercise after work, and usually don't eat dinner until pretty late. Lately, I've been running into an issue with one of our HR managers. She commented about a month ago that she feels like she's used me eating all the time and wonders where it all goes, and she's taken to making a comment every time she sees me with food, if any kind, even if it's at a

normal time like lunch. These comments make me super uncomfortable. First, I don't think it's anyone's business but mine when, what, or how much I eat, and I don't think I should have to justify anything any of my habits. Second, I have kind of a rocky relationship with food, and I used to struggle with disordered eating. So when she makes these kinds of comments, I just want to scream. When I used to not ear anything. Um. She makes

them directly to me and around other people too. Shout back with things like it's lunchtime, but it doesn't seem to stop the comments. I get into a point where I don't want to eat or even carry my food where she can see me because I know she'll make a comment. But she sits near me, near the kitchen and has even stopped by my desk to make these

kinds of jokes and comments I didn't notice. Seems like such a petty issue, but for someone who hasn't does struggle with their relationship with food, comments like this kind of get to you. Um, how do I shut this down without screaming? Crying or completely losing it. You know, it doesn't seem like a petty issue at all, I mean, particularly in your case because of the history of an

eating disorder. But it's crazy how many questions I get that are some version of coworkers being inappropriate about food, commenting on other people's food, pushing food on them that they don't want, making judge comments about what they're eating, saying that they eat too much, saying that they eat too little. It's like a weird national pastime. And I think this question that you're asking is especially important because it's a reminder that these comments, as annoying as they are,

they can be more than annoying too. If someone is dealing with disordered eating or has a needing disorder in their past, that kind of comment can go beyond annoying and actually be really harmful. And frankly, I mean, I'd argue that they're harmful no matter what, because as a society we're just so incredibly weird about food and diets and bodies and it's not helpful to play into that.

But that's a separated plus. Let's take a moment to note that the person doing this to you is in HR, not that HR people all get training in this kind of thing, because loads of them don't. In fact, most of them, I think don't. But it would be nice if people in HR did hold themselves to a higher level of accountability about this sort of thing. But tons of them don't, even in big companies where they should

know better. It's very strange. Anyway. If you want to get this to stop, you've got two basic options, and they both revolve around being more direct. So the first one is to just be direct in the moment, and the next time she comments on your food or you're eating, you could say, really directly, could you please stop commenting on my food? It's gotten uncomfortable. Or you could say, hey, please stop commenting on my eating and just leave it there. Now.

This is going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. If you're sitting here listening to this thinking, oh my god, that sounds so rude, I would never be comfortable saying that. I want to say, the fact that something feels awkward is not in itself a sign that you shouldn't be saying it. Sometimes things are just awkward and that is just how they're going to go. And in this case, she is actually the one making things awkward, not you. You've tried nicely hinting for her to stop, and she's

refusing to pick up on what you're saying. So you've tried giving her the benefit of the doubt. You've tried being kind. It's not working, and at this point, if you want to get through to her, you're going to have to be more blunt. And I know that lots of people really really don't like doing that because it feels rude. So I want to emphasize you are not the one being rude here. She's forcing you to be more direct than you would normally want to be by

being rude herself. The Captain Awkward Advice blog has a great phrase for this. She calls it returning awkwardness to sender. And that's what you'd be doing here. You'd be putting the awkwardness backhere it originated from, which is with your colleague. And really there's nothing wrong with a very simple hey, this bothers me? Can you stop it? So that is option one. You would have like a minute or two of feeling awkward and uncomfortable, but it would probably get

her to stop. The second option is something that you may or may not be up for, and that would be stopping by her office and addressing this in a slightly more serious way. This might feel like making a bigger deal out of it than you want to, and that's a completely fine reason to decide not to do it. But there is some value in this approach if you want to do it, because it would allow you to have a more meaningful, potentially more meaningful conversation with her.

So you could stop by and you could say something like, Hey, I wanted to make a request of you. I've noticed that you really frequently comment on my food and other people's food, like saying that you don't know where I put it all or so forth. I'm sure you're just making conversation and you mean well, but I want to ask you to stop making those comments, at least to me.

You probably haven't thought of this, but a lot of people have disordered eating in their pasts or are struggling with it currently, and those kinds of comments can land much differently than you intend them. Now, that language isn't revealing anything about yourself specifically, although she may read between the lines and realize that it's likely that you might be talking about yourself, and that might be more than you want to do, And if you don't want to

that's totally fine. You still have option number one. But if you're willing to take on the conversation, it might be a real service both to her because she's unknowingly walking around alienating people and making them feel uncomfortable, and also to other people who are bothered by those comments too.

And you know, if she is a kind person, she might feel a little stung in the moment, but she will appreciate the feedback and she should come to realize that you're pointing out something that's important and that she hadn't thought about. And if she's not a kind person, there's not much that can be done about that, no matter what you say to her. But it's worth starting from the assumption that she is kind or at least

reasonable and seeing what happens. Let's take our last break here and then i'll be back with another question from a listener. Here's our next question. Dear Alison, I'm a librarian and I've always wanted to be one. Now I've been one professionally for more than twenty years, and I am so unhappy. Current job has been rough in the past four years in this toxic I'm excellent at what I do, get good annual reviews, and want to do more,

but the opportunities for internal advancements have dried up. In fact, I've heard more than once you've been here too long. It's not unusual for academics to stay in a job due to location. But it's getting to me, especially when I'm being passed over. The stress has gotten to be too much and often shows up as any which I don't show it work, but bleeds all over my personal life. And yes, I'm seeking help. I've been on the job

market for nearly three years, both locally and nationally. While I had several really good interviews, none of that worked out, and now my husband has achieved the equivalent of tenure. So moving would have to make it the perfect job, not just the next job. So I'm looking at leaving librarianship my vocation and identity. For twenty years, you've wrote often on figuring out how to stay in a toxic or bad or limited job if you need to. I'm not sure I can do that, which has turned into

a real soul searching issue. With the exception of ubiquitous teenage jobs. I've never worked anywhere but a library. I have a fantastic skill set that would hold me a good stead outside of academia. But how do I come to terms with going from a vocation to a job? Oh? This is so hard. It's terrible to feel like you found work at fulfills you and then realize that you

can't do it anymore for whatever reason. For the purpose of answering this question, I'm going to take it as a given that you really do need to leave librarianship. I don't have enough details to question your conclusion there, and you know your situation far better than I do, so we will assume that you do, indeed need to move into another field. I would not assume that you will be going from a vocation, something that feels like

a calling, to something that's just a job. Maybe you will be, but it's very possible that you'll end up doing something else that also does bring you some fulfillment. Maybe not in exactly the same ways or the same quantities, but I suspect there's more than one type of work out there that you can find happiness in. I think it can be really hard to see that when you've been doing something for a long time, and your identity is wrapped up in it. In some ways, it's like

ending a long marriage. But I want to urge you not to look at it as I was doing this thing that I loved and now I'll just be working for a paycheck and nothing else, Because it's very likely that there are other things out there that you will find satisfaction in. But let's do worst case scenario here and talk about what if you don't. I actually kind

of love figuring out worst case scenarios for myself. I know that sounds weird, but for me at least, there's something very comforting about figuring out what's the worst thing that could happen here, and then Okay, how would I deal with that if it does happen for me? If I don't do that, and then I just have this free floating worry in my head and it just makes me feel worried and anxious. But if I have a plan and I know what I would do if the

worst happens, that's pretty reassuring. In most cases, I end up realizing that I would be fine. You know, things might not be ideal, but they'd be survivable. So in your case. The worst case scenario I think that you're worried about is that you never find satisfying work again, and you end up going to work every day just for the paycheck, and you have to figure out an identity that makes you happy that's totally separate from your

professional life. That actually isn't too bad. You would be joining the tens of millions of other people who have jobs like that. It's very, very normal to be invested in your job primarily for the money and not be super into it beyond that. That's actually most people in the world. I think that when you're in a field that a lot of people go into because of passion for the work, like librarianship, it can be easy to forget that because you're surrounded by people who are also

very wrapped up in what they do. But there really isn't anything wrong with just working for the money, and there are still ways to find satisfaction from your job even when that's the case. Sometimes it's like the satisfaction of just making something work well or solving a problem, or you know, being the really competent go to person on your team who gets a lot of respect from your colleagues. There's a lot of ways to feel good about your work, even when it doesn't feel like a calling.

I think we do people in our culture or this tremendous disservice by teaching them that they're supposed to find work that they're passionate about, because I mean, it's amazing when that does happen. That's a wonderful thing, but it's sort of like winning the professional lottery. It doesn't happen for the majority of the world's population, and we need to do a better job of letting people know that

they haven't failed if it doesn't happen for them. I think that by telling people that they should expect to be able to follow their dreams professionally, we set them up for a lot of angst and despair when that's

hard to do or in a situation like yours. We'd all be so much better off as a culture if we had a different model for work, a model that says it's okay for work to just be the thing that supports the rest of your life, and it's okay to find your fulfillment from friends or family, your hobbies or pets, or whatever it might be. It doesn't have to be like this professional bliss that we've been told

we're supposed to be striving for. So if that is how it turns out for you, that's okay, And there can even be something that's very liberating about realizing that it can take some of the pressure off. But also and not to undermine that message. I also think it's very likely that coming from a field like librarianship, where you have a lot of skills that are going to be very valuable and transferable, like research, you have a pretty good chance at finding work that does bring you

some measure of fulfillment. Maybe it won't be your identity the way that librarianship was, but maybe that's not such a terrible thing. Maybe you'll find that there's a different type of fulfillment, maybe even a better type, from building your identity separately from what you do for money. I think it's worth going into it being open to it playing out that way, or at least not devastated by a belief that it won't, and then just see what happens.

That's our show for today. Before we wrap up, I wanted to note you may have noticed that all of these colors were women. I get way more ca calls and letters from women than for men, both here on the podcast and also on my website. I think to some extent that is just how it tends to be with advice columns. But I want to make sure that any men listening know that the show is for you to so call it in with your questions as well. You can record a question for the show by calling

eight five five two six work. That's eight five five two six nine six seven five, And you can leave a voicemail for me to play on the show. Or if you have a longer question, a question where you want to actually come on the show and talk with me, email it to you podcast at ask a manager dot org. That's it for today. I'll be back next time with more questions. M