My Boss is a Jerk to Me

much at the company party. Let's get started. Managers can have a huge amount of influence over your day to day quality of life at work. A good boss can make even boring jobs pretty good, and a bad boss can take a great job and destroy it. Bad bosses come in a lot of different flavors, but one of the hardest to deal with is a boss who is just mean. Today's guest is worried that might be the boss she has ended up with at a new job. Hi, and welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much

for having me. I'm so glad to have you here. So you wrote to me and you said, basic, your boss is pretty awful to you. You've been there a few months and it feels like the way she treats you is abusive. When she gives you feedback in your work, she makes it personal, and it feels like she talks to you with real hostility when you've tried to defend yourself, like one time where she thought you had forgotten to include something in a draft and you pointed out that no,

actually you had included it. She's told you to just stop being defensive. And then a complicating factor is that, well she's pretty mean to you, everyone else seems to like her, and it doesn't seem like she's treating other people this way. Am I getting that right? And is there anything you would want to add to that? Yes? Yeah,

I mean that's spot on. Um, she's you know, she's been therefore, I think like probably two years now, and I've just joined recently, and I'm I'm one of two people that she manages, and she seems to be pretty close with the other person that she manages who's been there for a while, and she does kind of just like right from the get go, I've just really sensed this kind of like hostile vibe from her, and it just makes working with her really difficult, and especially when

I'm like in a new job and I'm like trying to get trained and like up to speed on things, Like it almost feels like she doesn't want me to get better or that that I'm just kind of like her punching bag or something. And was it like that from day one? Um? Pretty soon? Maybe not the first week,

but the first week was such a whirlwind. Um, I guess, yeah, I mean it was really pretty soon right away, Like she was just immediately like hypercritical of everything I did or said, will you tell me more about like specifically what sorts of things she says to you that feel abusive? Sure? So, as you said, I mean, recently, I made a draft for her and she asked for a specific finding to be included in, which I did, but she reviewed it like late at night and she missed, did I guess?

And so she came in the next day and she asked, you know, hey, why or why why wasn't this in the draft? And I said, oh, actually it's right here, like there was a paragraph and I showed it to her on my computer and she looks at me and says, that wasn't there yesterday And I said, no, actually it was, and she said, all right, you should not be so defensive. It's not about you being right or me being wrong, which I was just really taken it back by because

I just didn't know how to respond. Like I was just you know, kind of flagging that for her because since it wasn't the draft, she wasn't going to have to do it herself. The hostility right off the bat was just, you know, really just difficult to deal with. That's so bizarre because I'm trying to imagine how you could have responded to that in any other way. I mean, she was saying when there, you were pointing out that it was It's it's hard to picture what response she

wanted from you. I don't know. She I felt like she she wanted it to not be there, and she wanted to break me for not being there, and I like I took that away from her or something. Yeah, And I think I think you said to me in your original email that it feels like she tries to she's almost putting down your work. Yeah, she is. She she definitely does try to put down my work, like she she almost wants to make me feel like I'm dumb, or like she tries to explain to me what our

line of work is all about. But I've done our line of work for four years and I've always like had good reviews and and my last company, you know, I really rose to the top of my team pretty quickly, and I was a go to person for questions. It does feel kind of condescending, like she's trying to put me down. Like she actually told me the other day that, in so many words, that I'm not curious enough for this line of work, and her exact words were, I

just don't know how to teach curiosity. And I didn't know what to say to that, because I've done the work for four years and I always, you know, did a good job, and I kind of probably myself on going like the extra mile, and especially when I'm in a situation where someone doesn't think my work is good enough, that really kind of puts me into like turbo mode,

and I really want to do a good job. But it just it just feels like even if I do go that extra mile, if I somehow squeak by, you know, she she says nothing, but if there's even a small mistake, she jumps on it and harps on it and explains it in a very patronizing, condescending way about how how I should have known better. But it's just feels like she doesn't want to help me. She just kind of

wants to break me, you know. Yeah. And is the hostility that you're feeling from her, is that present in the majority of your interactions with her or is it more just occasional. I would say that it's present in most of our interactions. Like I've actually in the past two weeks, like center broke, since I wrote in, I've kind of tried to just distance myself from her a little bit because I figured that, you know, maybe that would be one way to kind of dial back on

the abusive nature of the interactions. Like I just I don't ask questions to her anymore. I asked my coworker, who is a very sweet person, and I just I just really try to keep my distance because that just seems to be working out a little bit better for me. Yeah. And so your coworker, so this is the one other person that your boss manages and they have a pretty good relationship. You don't see your boss treating your coworker that way. No, I don't. Um. She has been here

for for probably like eight months or so. My coworker and so she's definitely been doing the work for longer. Um. But yeah, like, I mean, my coworker will go to my boss and will ask her questions, and my boss will be very like forthcoming in advice, and you know, we'll actually tell her what she wants or give her a plan rather than just kind of throwing her in the deep end almost and just expecting some kind of

results that won't result in like rating. Yeah, I'm almost getting the sense that like she might just have an irrational dislike of you or something. Yeah, I'm kind of thinking that too, because we do have another like, like, we have a larger team of like six or seven people and the majority are women, and like, um, like everyone seems to get along really well, and everyone on the team and at the company overall it's like really friendly and nice and loves their job and it's great.

But I think that my boss, like as you said, I think she just has some kind of dislike of me. And actually, um, I think this this will be um symbolized in my next incident where basically, like I this was another time earlier on where I basically asked her if if she would be able to help me find you know, a piece of of data to be able to disqualify a certain result that we found. And so I said, basically, you know, you know, I'm sorry, you have to go looking for it, like, you know, just

just something like polite. I felt like, just something, you know, like I know she's busy and I just couldn't find it, and I wanted to see if she could help. But so after I said that, you know, I'm sorry, sorry, I have to go looking for it, she turned to me and said, Okay, stop apologizing. I obviously have to do this. How else do you think it's gonna get done if I don't do this, really I want to hear it, and she just and she she doesn't smile that much in general, like well, well she kind of

does with other people, but never with me. But she just stares at me with this like terrifying face, like I don't know what to do. Like I just kind of looked away and said, yeah, I'm sorry, you're right. I was like, what was I supposed to say? That sounds really awful? Is she? I'm just curious and I'm sorry. I'll start giving you some advice and I'll stop with my questions after after it Um, is she a newer manager? Do you happen to know if she has a lot

of management experience or if she's just getting her feet wet. Yes, So, so I actually think, um, that I think she is a new manager, and that's like I'm not sure, but I took a look at her LinkedIn and she has mostly like a lot of like contracting work and um, kind of like consultant type things before this job. And so I really get the sense that she has never managed before. Okay, let's pause here for a quick break.

When we come back, I want to get into actually talking about what you might be able to do about this. So I have a theory. Well, I have two theories about your boss. I have absolutely nothing to back them up. There, just speculation. But my gut is saying she's a brand new manager, she really doesn't know how to manage, and

she might be really stressed out. Um. I'm actually curious to know if, like what you've noticed about her stress level, because what you're describing sounds like someone who who is stressed out and does not know how to manage a actively and it is taking that stress out on you. But my second theory is that maybe she just has an irrational dislike of you, Like maybe she didn't want to hire you, she wanted to hire her friend, or maybe you look just like her cousin who she hates her.

I mean, there might just be something of really irrational going on here that isn't about you at all. Well, I do think that she's probably pretty stressed. Um she does tend to email on the weekend and she'll like review my reports on the weekend, or um, she'll I don't know, she she stays up late to do things, and she just she she seems like maybe a higher stress individual. So that definitely I think could be contributing.

It is said, maybe it's just easier to take it out on me because I'm new and like, I'm definitely still learning and I'm not it takes a while to get up to speed, especially on like a more like technical kind of thing that we do. But I just I don't see her treating the other like my peer like that, or any of like her peers or like my my grand boss. Yeah, well she definitely wouldn't do it above her because people who are abusive tent to

at least know that they can't aim it upward. They can only get away with aiming it downward, which of course just makes it even crappier because it means it's

actually within their control and they're picking and choosing. But I could definitely see it being that she is taking her stress out on you, and the reason she's taking it out on you and not in your coworker is because she was able to juggle things before you got there, and that you are adding having to train you and having to answer your questions and having to manage you is adding to her stress in a way that your longer term co worker isn't. None of this is justified,

and of course all of this is speculation. I could be completely off base. Um, But if I'm right, none of it is is justified. Certainly it doesn't make it okay, but it might just be an interesting thing to have in the back of your head as you're watching the situation, to see if you see further signs that that fits. Um. That doesn't really steer you in in any particular direction of action, of course, So let's talk about what to do.

So I think you have a few options here. The first one, which I don't like and I don't recommend, is that you could just give this some time and see if it gets better once you're both more used to working together. I don't like that approach because I think it sounds pretty bad and you're understandably pretty unhappy, and I don't know that it's likely to change if you just try to wait it out. And you know, if she were like this with everyone, that would be

bad in a different way. But I mean, that's it's terrible to have a managery where that's just her style. But in that case, it would be possible that maybe you could end up finding ways to work reasonably happily

with a manager who just has a crappy style. But the fact that she's just doing it to you says to me that there's something going on that's specific to the two of you, or that the way you're approaching the work is somehow out of ink with what she wants and she hasn't figured out how to articulate that, and that's not likely to go away if you just leave it alone. So I don't recommend just waiting and seeing.

The option that I suspect will get better results but you might not want to do it, is that you can try talking to her about it head on. Um, something weird is going on, you know, since she's not doing this with other people, and it's probably in your best interests to address it and find out what it is. Um, it might be worth talking with her, you know, sitting down and asking to talk about how things are going overall.

Your a few months into the job, so this is a logical time to do that anyway, And as part of that conversation you could say pretty straightforwardly that you're getting the sense that she might be unhappy with your work and even frustrated with you, and asked to talk about that. Now. Would you be comfortable doing that? Or maybe not comfortable because it sounds like this whole thing

is pretty uncomfortable. But but can you imagine doing that? Yeah, I might try to pick a day when she's not under all of stress, which I don't I don't really know how to like kind of read her yet, but definitely, UM, when she's less busy. I do want to definitely address it.

I just feel like I'm worried that if I address it with her directly, she'll just say something like you need to get better, or your work is bad, or it's just it's just frustrating me because I really do try really hard, and I try to follow her exact

protocols as much as possible. Like I'll copy, you know, something that she did at a previous incident and use it for a new one, the same type of incident, you know, tweak it for with the additional details, and suddenly it won't be good enough, and she'll add additional details, even when mine was more than sufficient and was good enough, you know, a week ago. And it's just it feels like she she kind of wants to like set me

up up to to not be successful. But I mean, I would definitely like be interested in talking to her about it, and I think I would frame it like that, like I get the sense that you're unhappy with my work or maybe just with me in general, and I guess, how can we fix it? Yeah? And I think, I mean, you might be thinking, gosh, I'm just going to be inviting even more criticism from her, and you might, But the idea is, if she is thinking something about you,

it's better for you to hear it. And what you want to really focus on here as much as you can is the big picture, like overall, how are things going and overall, what does she think you need to be doing differently or working on So it's not an invitation for her to like get into the nitty gritty

complaints that she's had in the past. I mean, she might do that, and you can't stop her from doing that, But as much as you can, I think you want to frame it as you're getting the sense that overall you might not be approaching the job in the way that she wants and you really want to. You want to do a good job at work, You want her feedback, um and and you don't want to to have a

situation where she's frustrated or unhappy with you. UM. I will say there is a risk to this option that you would have to be okay with going in because it is possible that if you sit down with her and you say that, she might move pretty quickly to yeah, things are not going well, and that could move you more quickly into a situation where potentially she's even talking about whether or not it's the right job for you, and it could take you down a path of even

being pushed out of the job. UM. I have no idea whether or not that's likely to happen, but it is certainly the case that if you bring up the topic and you say, hey, let's step back and reflect on how things are going, that is a possible outcome. I'm going to argue that if that is the outcome, it's still better to know about it and to bring it to the surface so that you can figure out how to proceed, because if that's the case, it's going to happen at some point, and you might as well

not be blindsided by it. But it is possible that initiating this conversation could make it happen soon. Does that make sense? It does make sense. It's it's kind of like one reason that I've been sort of like avoiding her a little bit, like except for like when when when I have a one on one with her or you know, another type of meeting, like I just I do try to kind of keep my distance because I figure if I can just like lay low like I've

been trying to lay low approach. So yeah, yeah, I guess I guess there is a risk that it would it would bring it to the surface, but I do also really want to know about that and address it, and no, if it's like if it's not going to work, out. I would like to be somewhere where it will Yeah, exactly. I mean I think that's exactly the right way to look at it, because it would suck if that's where

that conversation went. But that conversation would not be the cause of it going there, you know, like, if if that is what happens, it wouldn't have only happened because he raised it. If that's going to come of it, that's going to come of it sooner or later anyway. I mean, you can only lay low for for so long. Um, if that is the direction that this is going in.

At some point, it's going to happen anyway, And there's there's some advantage to taking some control of the situation and saying, hey, let's talk about what's going on so that we can both figure out how to move forward here. I just don't want you. I would never want to encourage you to go into this conversation without pointing out this potential risk, because I wouldn't want you to do it how that happen and then be blindsided by it.

Yeah sure, sure, definitely, Um, Yeah, but I agree, I think it's better to kind of get it out in the open. If possible. Um, And I mean, who knows, there's lots of other things that you could hear. I mean you might hear, I don't know, you might hear that, Yes, she's been frustrated because she feels like you're not retaining information she's giving you. I mean, honestly, from what you've said it, it doesn't sound like that's the case. But

who knows. Maybe there actually is something legitimate about her perspective, and she's handling it really badly and it's making her cranky with you in a way that's completely inappropriate. But maybe there is something there at the core that's causing it that actually would be helpful for you to hear. But even if nothing like that does come out of it, the fact that you're initiating this discussion hopefully will flag for her in a very appropriate and polite way that

she's being kind of a jerk to you. You know. And and if if she's just a horrible person, maybe she doesn't care. But if she's not a horrible person, if she's just like a very bad, inexperienced manager who's under a lot of stress and she's handling this terribly, it might prod her into realizing that she needs to figure out how to change the way she's dealing with you. Who knows. Yeah, yeah, I would like that. I mean I've also considered that, you know, maybe like my work

quality just isn't good. But I've never like, I try really hard, and I work really hard, and I usually like I'm successful. And I just think that addressing it with her head on would be good just to find out, you know, maybe to flag it with her maybe she doesn't realize she's doing it, or yeah, maybe she's just taking out her stress on me. Yeah, And I think no matter what comes out of that conversation, I think you're going to come away with much more information than

you have right now. I mean, even if she's just like, yeah, you need to do a better job and she doesn't give you anything beyond that, Now you know that you sat down and you tried to address it in a mature way and you couldn't get anywhere with her, and she didn't show any sign that she plans to change what she's doing. And so now you can decide, Okay, knowing that there's no sign that this is going to be different in the near future, what do you want to do do you want to stay and keep trying

to work on it? Do you want to maybe start looking around? But you'll be better equipped, I think, to have a You'll have a better feel for that once you talk to her. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, thanks? And yeah, I think I will talk to her about it and get her perspective. And do you feel like you have good language to use, like, do you have a good

sense of how you would bring this up with her? Well, I guess I would just I would say, you know, I get the sense that maybe you're not super happy with my work, and I'm wondering if there's anything that like. I guess I would maybe ask if there were any like pointers she could give, or any like glaring issues that you know, she would like to see me address. Is that how you would do it? Yeah, well, so I'm going to tweak it a little bit. I mean, I think that's a great start, but I think I

would to bring it up initially. I would say something like, hey, now that I've been here a few months, could we schedule some time to sit down and talk about how

things are going? Overall? So you're not like catching her off guard, you're actually scheduling time to do it, so hopefully she will prepare a little bit for it, um one hopes, And then when you actually do sit down, I would sort of repeat that, you know, I'm hoping to talk about how things are going overall and what you might like me to work on doing differently, and see what she says. But at some point in that conversation,

I would say, can I be candid with you. I've gotten the impression at times that you've been pretty frustrated with me or with my work, and I really want feedback from you, and if there are things that you want me doing differently, I'm really open to hearing them

and i want to work on them. But I'm getting the sense that you're pretty frustrated, and I'm wondering if I'm interpreting that correctly, so that you're really putting the focus on any decent manager, not that I'm categorizing her as a decent manager, because it really doesn't sound like she is. That any even halfway decent manager is if someone is going to hear someone saying to them, hey, I am feeling like you're frustrated, that that's a message.

So that's a little bit more than are there pointers that you want to give me. You're you're you're sort of flagging that this is a problem, you know, and you're not you're not being aggressive about it. You're you're raising it in a very polite, appropriate way, but you are you're sharing with her that she's coming across is very frustrated with you, and you're concerned about that. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's I think that's sway better than mine. No, I mean,

it's very similar and similar to yours. I just queaked it a little. Um. Okay, let's take a quick break here and we'll be right back. I also wanted to say, I know you had asked me when you first emailed me about whether this might be something to go to HR about or go over her head to her own boss, over your manager's head to her boss. It depends on

what her boss is like. In general, I would say it might not have a real impact on what's going on based on what you've described, because it is probab well with HR at least, it is probably not at the bar where they would intervene. Her own manager might, but it's a risky thing to do because her own manager might turn right back around and just report that

conversation to her, and it might make things worse. So the times when you can successfully go over your boss's head to their boss are the times that I would recommend doing it at least are when you have pretty good rapport with the boss's boss and you feel like you really know that you can trust them to handle it well and to not make the situation worse for you, and when you've seen that they have a track record of being willing to intervene with the managers under them.

If you haven't seen that stuff, that doesn't mean that it's not true. It just makes it a riskier thing to try to do. Okay, And I don't really want to go to my boss's boss or HR just because, like as you said, like it's it's not like horribly egregious, but it's just it is making my working life just kind of miserable. But I do think that it would be better to probably just talk to her first. I think so, And I mean I do think it's pretty egregious.

I definitely don't intend to minimize what's happening. I mean, what you're talking about sounds sounds pretty awful. I mean, the vibe that I'm getting from the examples that you've given, really are that she's sort of like getting some sort of satisfaction out of criticizing you, and that's really messed up and that's not good. Um. If I had a manager who was working for me and I heard that they were doing that to their staff members, I would

absolutely intervene. But it's there are so many managers out there who are who are very hands off about the managers under them, which is why I think you've got to really know in a pretty solid way that her

boss is someone to intervene with. HR. I think, um, HR is good at well, they should be good at intervening if it's something like harassment or discrimination or something that's pretty black and white, or if she were doing something like yelling um, But when it's a little bit more subtle, and frankly, this doesn't sound all that subtle, but when it's a little bit more subtle, they tend

to be a little bit more hands off. So, I mean, there are some really good HR people out there who would handle this beautifully, but they tend to be the exception more than the rule. Unfortunately. Great, Okay, yeah, that makes sense for sure. I will I will try talking to her. I think, I think that's the right thing to do. And actually I have one other thought. Would you ever want to talk to your coworker about it, the other person who your boss manages and trying to

get insight from her. Yeah, So I have debated about that. My my other coworker is like the nicest person, so Bubbly is so great and um like like so I actually go to her for questions said on my boss because like she's she's so nice and she's so helpful and so yeah, I have kind of thought about it, but I also worry that, like, you know, she's kind

of friends with my boss. And I don't know if I mentioned this earlier when my boss just got promoted to manager when I got hired, So so basically my coworker became her direct report right when I got hired, so like they had kind of like a friendship before that for like six months when my coworker joined and my manager was already there. So I just, yeah, well

that explain side. She's nice to her. Yeah, no, but that actually now I'm all the more convinced of my theory that she's like a bad, stressed out first time manager who doesn't really know how to manage and is taking her frustration out on you, and that puts it into context. It makes it make more sense why she's

not doing it to your coworker. Okay, yeah, yeah, So so that's why I haven't reached out to my coworker yet, because I'm afraid my coworker like just hasn't had this experience at all, and so she'll just be like, well, that's strange, and like, I mean, my boss hasn't really done any of this, set idea of this to me in front of other people, like it's usually in like one on one meetings or something. Yeah, in that case, it might not be that fruitful to talk to your coworker.

If if she had been managed by your boss longer, then potentially you could talk to her and you might hear something like, oh, she's like that with everyone in the beginning or you know, who knows. But it sounds like your situations have been different, the chronology has been different enough that it might not be that useful anyway. Yeah, So so that's why I've held off and I haven't been able to talk to like really anyone about it. Yeah. So this it's been helpful to talk to you about it.

And I also want to say, I mean, if you do talk to her and it doesn't get better, or if it even makes it worse, it won't you shouldn't see it as a referendum on you or on your work. I mean, what your manager is doing is objectively really

terrible management, So it's not about you. So like if you are starting to second guess yourself and thinking like, oh, maybe I'm not as good at my job as I thought that I was, or maybe I'm somehow causing this, I don't think that's the case, because even if you were really terrible at your work, your manager should not be handling it this way. And so the fact that she is says that this is very much about her.

No matter what you might be contributing to the situation, we can very confidently know what she's doing is about her and not about you. So if it doesn't get better, I don't want you to feel like you have failed, or that this has revealed to you that you're worse worker than that you thought that you were, or anything

like that. I think what it would reveal is that you just got stuck working for a crappy manager who's brand new to managing, doesn't know what she's doing, and it's it's really terrible timing that you got paired with her when you did. But if if you do end up concluding, Okay, this is not going to get any better, and I'm going to look around for something else, which I know you might not want to do because you're new and who wants to start a job search right

away after they just settled in somewhere. But but there's

no shame in doing that. If that's what you conclude makes sense, Okay, Yeah, yeah, I have considered it because I mean, it's, like you said, it is kind of taking a hit on my self esteem and like to have done this work for so many years, well not so many, but like you know, four years is a good chunk of time, and like I was good at it there and I'm just so apparently bad at it here, and I just don't understand, like, like I do think it's kind of bad for like my mental health a

little bit. Yeah, absolutely, And don't shy away from recognizing that that could be happening, because bad bosses and especially mean bosses, which is what you have, really can mess with your head and if you stay there for a long time, it can really warp your thinking. And and if you're there long enough, sometimes when you finally do move on, you'll carry that messed up thinking with you did the next job, because they've messed with your head so much. So make sure that you're not letting her

get in your head. This really, this is just the way she's behaving is so not okay that it can't be about you. Okay, okay, Yeah, that's that's a very good argument for moving on. I think if if it doesn't get better, I think so too, because I mean this sounds awful, and I mean it's there's like I said, it is yeah, And like I said at the beginning of the show, I mean, bad bosses come in all

different flavors. You've got the incompetent ones. You've got the ones who won't give anyone any straightforward feedback or have a hard conversation. There's a zillion types. But the type that is outright mean to you and seems to take pleasure in criticizing you and seems to want you fail to fail, that's terrible. That's a terrible way to spend so many of your hours every day when you go to work, and there would be nothing wrong with moving

on quickly if you decide that this isn't going to change. Yeah, okay, yeah, I because yeah, like you said, I mean, ideally I don't want to leave a job after like three months. But I think if there's ever a good reason, it's because my boss is just mean. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And I mean people always talk about being afraid of being seen as a job hopper or something. You are at your last job for four years, he said, You're having one short term stay is not going to be a problem.

If you had a pattern of lots of three months days, that would be a problem. But you have. You've got a good, solid four years at your previous job, so I think you're fine. Definitely. Like, like, I'm pretty lucky because I'm in an area where my skills are like sort of more in demand. I think, like i've been, I've gotten like professed, like like LinkedIn like a lot of emails and things like that, which I didn't in my previous city, which was great. So that's good. And

I do really like that. Um yeah, it's just I really I do really need it to get better. Yeah, yes, absolutely, And that is especially if you have options. I mean, even if you didn't have a lot of options and your skills weren't that in demand. I wouldn't want you to stay working with someone who's mean, but especially knowing that you do feel like you would be able to find something else. There's don't stay and suffer just because you feel like you have to do it for the

sake of your resume. Okay, yeah, yeah, and do you know actually the irony, Like when I interviewed for this job, I forget how it came up, but at one point I remember I said to one of the people who I interviewed. I don't think it was with her, I think it was with another team member, but I said, I've never had a manager that I didn't like. Yeah, well, now now you have the experience under your belts. So there's that. Well do you feel like you you have

some good next steps here to take? Yes? Yes, really helpful you. I really like your language, Like, can I be candid with you? Like I feel like you hate me? I mean, of course I won't say it in that way. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's been really helpful to get your perspective. Thanks for listening to the Ask

a Manager Podcast. If you'd like to come on the show to talk through your own question, email it too podcast at Asking manager dot org, or you can leave a recording of your question by calling eight five five six work. That's eight five five f T six nine six seven five. You can get more ask a Manager at ask a Manager dot org or in my book Ask a Manager How to Navigate clueless colleagues, lunch stealing bosses,

and the rest of your life at work. The Ask a Manager Show is a partnership with How Stuff Works and is produced by Paul Deckett. If you liked what you heard, please take a minute to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Play. I'm Alison Green and I'll be back next week with another one of your questions.