[00:00:00] And by the time we finished college, we were very good at being people pleasers. We are, we've become extremely good achievers, but as many of us know, it's become an addiction and it's painful and it comes at a great cost. It was not easy being a people pleaser yet. It was something that we found to kind of work, because many of us were smart and we could get those good grades.
[00:00:25] And so it was like a trap where you really didn't want to keep going, but you didn't know how to get out.
[00:00:33] Welcome to Asians Breaking Ceilings. I'm Jeanny Chai, founder of BambooMyth. com and confidence coach for multicultural professionals. The goal of this podcast is to ignite your confidence, to empower you to overcome imposter syndrome.
[00:00:50] So you can finally break that career ceiling and get what you want in life.
[00:00:55] In episode five, I'll be sharing stories from my childhood that explain why at an early age, I became a people pleaser. Many of us have a fundamental belief that I am not enough. We're going to talk about how we got this way, but more importantly, what we can start doing about this so that we can turn away from this addictive behavior where sometimes it brings us tiredness, resentment, anger, and yet we're still unable to get out of it.
[00:01:27] If you want to learn about your own biggest roadblock to personal success, Be sure to take the quiz I've created for you at asiansbreakingceilings. com and leave a review for me at podchaser. com. Any comments you leave, I'll be sure to write back. So let's jump into today's episode, Ceiling Breakers, so we can achieve authentic success, without the stress.
[00:01:55] Yes, this is a career podcast, but it is not your traditional podcast in which we can jump right into how do I manage up? How do I speak out? How do I ask for a salary increase? And how do I deal with a difficult boss? Because there is a foundation that without that I can tell you what to say, but you're going to feel guilty.
[00:02:16] You're going to feel embarrassed. You're going to feel really anxious about even getting those words out. How do I know this? Cause I've been there. And I've coached hundreds of women and men who also, it's not a communication problem we have. It's a permission problem. And so for the next few episodes, we're going to talk about how we came to be people pleasers, right?
[00:02:37] Almost every. Every Asian heritage person I've spoken to has some level of wanting to keep the harmony of feeling like I don't want to offend you and many of us, when our names are called, Hey, Jeanny immediately. We don't think good things going to happen. We think we're in trouble. How did this come to be?
[00:02:58] That's what this episode is going to be about. As I'm sharing stories about myself again, it's not for you to have pity on me or to send me email going, I'm sorry that happened to you. I want us to travel back in time together so that we can take. Some incidences and events that happen and make sense of them in the correct way.
[00:03:21] You know, there's a movie, a book called Desperado, and there's a beautiful concept in there about how this little rat got his heart broken. And when he fixed it, it wasn't quite right. And I believe that for many of us growing up, there were incidences with specific people or at school or with friends, even our parents were something painful happened. I call it a confidence stealer. One of these events happens and then we didn't share with an adult who knew how to help fix our heart just right. And so it kind of got mangled and it fixed the wrong way. And so now it hurts a lot. And we have these incidences, 1, 2, 3, 4 happen. And now as adults, we get triggered.
[00:04:04] Right. And how do we become people pleasers? That is a result of having our heart broken, I believe, and having it re glued together in a way that wasn't quite right. And so here are the incidences I remember where I began to be afraid of people and not wanting to get yelled at. And again, when I share these instances, I'm not here to blame or cancel anybody.
[00:04:28] A lot of them obviously are going to be from my own family because I'm not going to share other people's stories or, you know, when I coach someone, they're all confidential, but I can guarantee you a lot of these stories resonate with everybody. And so I will just go back many generations of females again, you know, my poor grandmother, I remember at a young age, this is my maternal side.
[00:04:51] She would tell me stories about how she was One sibling, she had one sibling, an older brother, and she did all the chores, and he got a lot of preferential treatment. This was back in the 19... 20s, 1930s. And every summer she would visit me and my mom and my family and she would tell me these sad stories.
[00:05:13] And it was her way of venting, but I could tell that she wasn't the favorite child, right? There was a, there's a problem with bias and preferential treatment. And then I learned many, many years when I was older. Um, my other grandmother's story, and this would be my father's mother. I learned that she actually was born in Taiwan to a very well known, well off family, but somehow she was given up for adoption or something like that, and they went to a, she went to a family in which, again, she was treated more as a little servant.
[00:05:53] And so when she got married, she was the second wife. She got married to a much older man who already had a first wife. So my dad and his four brothers, so including himself, five kids were part of the family that had a father and a first wife and he was the second wife's children. She never got an education and she was bitter.
[00:06:19] Which I totally understand, I would be bitter too. She probably felt abandoned, she probably felt all kinds of things. And I'm sharing all this because I believe that's why we have generational trauma. Where a mother is so important to a child. And when a mother does not have confidence, does not feel completely secure and loved, we pass this on to our children.
[00:06:43] And so I will just suffice to say for this episode, there was a lot of issues with my maternal and mostly my paternal grandfather side of the family with fighting. And my paternal grandmother, on the day that my mom and dad got married, some major stuff went down. Major, major disrespect. Major cruelty.
[00:07:12] And my mother was in her early 20s, and I don't think she ever recovered from that. And so she was really, really upset that my dad never defended her. And so if you're married or have been in a relationship, you know how hard marriage and relationships are already without this added level of your mother in law treating you like garbage.
[00:07:33] And so I understand that and forgive all that now, but that took a long, long time for me to finally understand why my family life was so painful as a child. And so our arguments in my family, I was the only child, the arguments were about money and my father was the only one that ever made it to the United States on my mom, on his side.
[00:07:57] And so he was a PhD candidate. We were living in dorms in Iowa. I was four or five at the time. I just moved to America and every month my family would fight. Uh. They would try to do it at night quietly, but it never stayed quiet. And so once a month, I had this fear of waking up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, and my mom and dad would be yelling.
[00:08:21] And the argument was always about, we have a young child ourselves. How can we afford to send any money back home to your family? And because that, um, in law relationship was so painful, It made it especially bitter, right, for my mom. And so, they didn't know how to resolve this, and being in an Asian family, no one talked about therapy.
[00:08:44] Even if we did, we didn't speak English that well. My family, you know, we got by, and we were in a very white neighborhood. There was no way we were going to have therapists. And being the oldest child, and I know a lot of you... Uh, end up having this role, you don't go talk to your siblings, right? You're the pseudo parent.
[00:09:03] You're the substitute mother. And my mother definitely had that role. And so not only did she not have an outlet, she couldn't tell anybody and her siblings. And so. I learned at a young age that when we have conflict and problems, we don't tell anybody, which of course always perpetuates the problem. But the biggest fear was I was afraid of getting yelled at.
[00:09:25] I saw how my dad got treated. Uh, my mom probably could have gotten a law degree. She's that good with her arguments and they would argue for hours and hours. And pretty soon these arguments didn't just stay at night. You know, the, the, the, the vibe around our house was, You know, we're poor, stop overspending.
[00:09:48] And so every time my dad would go shopping, uh, I remember them fighting about broccoli. You know, my dad saw some broccoli on sale and instead of buying one head of broccoli, he bought three because, you know, he wanted to save money and my mom would flip out and then he'd get yelled at. So there was a lot of conflict at my family.
[00:10:09] And I think that's enough, right? If there's conflict in the family and you never see them make up, that's the issue. They never made up. You, as a young child, don't feel safe. And, as a young child, I also believe that we want to see our parents happy. And I know from my coaching experience and talking to many, many thousands of people, when a mother or a father is not happy, many times the young child will take it upon herself to try to make that parent happy.
[00:10:41] So that definitely was something that I tried to do because you feel so out of control. There's a few factors, right? You feel out of control. You don't know when the next time Your family is going to have a blowout and it's scary as scary as it's really, really frightening for a young child. In addition to that, as I mentioned previously, uh, my parents were really busy.
[00:11:08] My father was trying to get his PhD. My mom had an only child B, but somehow she was busy all day. She was always busy doing chores. She cleaned everything to a level that was just, you know, surgical clean. Um, and. In subsequent years, I understood why there's a story there. I'll share another time, but she spent all her time cleaning and she barely paid attention to me.
[00:11:33] So when I got to the United States, I felt. Ignored and I had anxiety that they were going to fight and I believe that's enough to start a child on this people pleasing trend because you feel unloved and you're worried about the people around you. And so at a young age, I learned that if I tried to be a good girl, whatever that was, maybe I can make my mom smile.
[00:12:00] Maybe it would help her to get to a place where she could be happy and she might not yell at my dad. You know, to this day, I talk about being a foodie. I love dim sum because you know what we would go every year. This is when I was older, every year we would eat dim sum on Chinese new year. Right. So that day it was bad luck to yell and fight.
[00:12:23] So that was one day I had certainty that my family would not be yelling at each other. And that day was also the day we went to eat dim sum. So to this day, when I eat dim sum, I get really giddy happy. All these emotions come back. And I'm sharing this because so much of our memories are tied into things.
[00:12:43] Right. The good memories are tied into food or situations. Same thing with the bad memories. Right? Many of us talk about PTSD or trauma. That's what it is. We, we end, we end up having these feelings from a long time ago and they, they show up and they come up. But eating dim sum was the opposite. It made me feel really safe and happy.
[00:13:01] To this, to this day, I love dim sum. And so when it wasn't Chinese New Year, I was scared. I thought anxiety was normal. I would, I would always watch my mom. I would always be gauging, you know, is she happy today? I'd come home from school a little bit scared and just kind of listen and see if she was in a bad mood.
[00:13:24] And when you're like that, as a child, it's very insecure. It's uncertain. And so I began to try to control her. Really, it was a method of control by being nice and telling her good stories. Mom, you know, today I got A's and I took this test and I, I did really well. And my teacher said, good job. Because that's one area she cared about.
[00:13:47] That's one area that I felt she could be pleased with. And as I got older, it got worse, right? So I'm not sure if I did it for her or did it for me. It doesn't really matter, but I definitely began more and more using school test grades, rank, In school as a way for me to feel valuable, maybe as a way for me to feel secure, because when I was working really hard, trying to please her, I felt like I had some ability to influence my family and to Stop the chaos, right?
[00:14:31] So what's the big deal about being an achiever? It looks good externally, right? Especially for Asian families in which academics is usually a top priority. The child looks great. The teacher loves her. They get good work done. Model student. You know, in America, we've been called the model minority. It all looks good.
[00:14:55] Except the problem is what about when you're not achieving? I noticed that in the summer times when I had my that time, 16 weeks, 14 weeks of summer break, I was depressed. I didn't feel like I had control. If my parents were going to yell or be upset, I had no way to stop the fight because my one coping mechanism, my one weapon, so to speak, was getting good grades.
[00:15:20] And I wasn't doing that in the summertime. I didn't have hobbies. I didn't take painting classes or Ikebana or learn to dance. I did go swimming and I did some gymnastics, but. Uh, as I got older, I remember just waiting for school to start again, because now I felt addicted. Now I felt this need, this urge to always be taking tests, to always be proving myself.
[00:15:41] And when I rested, I didn't feel good about myself. I didn't like who I was because it felt like there weren't many other areas in my personal life that were satisfying. I wasn't dating. I didn't have a lot of friends. I wasn't allowed to do sports during the school year once I was a high school kid because I was supposed to focus on academics and there was just not a lot in my personal life that I had spent time developing.
[00:16:11] And I was bored out of my mind. And I think I played solitaire by myself, a deck of cards, or I found things to do around the house. But the positive reinforcement that I got from the good grades, from getting awards, from being in the newspaper, from going to award ceremonies made it seem okay. And so we practice this year after year after year.
[00:16:36] And by the time we finished college, we were very good at being people pleasers where we've become extremely good achievers. But as many of us know, it's become an addiction and it's painful, and it comes at a great cost for those of us who had tiger parents or any kind of helicopter parent. The additional stress of that, which I will discuss in a different episode, added a lot of pain, added a lot of pressure, a lot of feelings that we had to be perfect.
[00:17:07] It was not easy being a people pleaser, yet it was something that we found to kind of work because many of us were smart and we could get those good grades. And so it was like a trap. Where you really didn't want to keep going, but you didn't know how to get out, and you couldn't get out.
[00:17:29] This is what I mean when I say our issue is not just trying to break through the bamboo ceiling. It's more like getting out of the bamboo jungle in which all these pressures, perfectionism, the need to succeed, the need to be perfect, the need to have control. The coping mechanisms we have to deal with fear and indecision in our life, to deal with insecurity, to deal with rejection, to deal with abandonment.
[00:17:56] These are all the things I deal with all the time. And I call it the bamboo jungle. And our goal is to completely. Figure out a way to leave to become free so that we can break through the bamboo ceiling and have lives that we love and Learn what it is that we truly want in life and give ourselves permission to finally start enjoying and not just proving ourselves.
[00:18:24] Before we start the second half of this episode, if you're of Asian descent and you wanna discover what your personal biggest roadblock is to success, go ahead and take the free quiz at asiansbreakingceilings.com.
[00:18:38] If you're liking this podcast, be sure to leave a review for me@podchaser.com, and then follow me on Instagram at "Jeanny Chai so you can be notified whenever a new episode drops. Now let's get back to our show.
[00:18:57] The reason people pleasing is exhausting and it doesn't really translate to a happy life is the motivation behind it is usually anxiety, right? Or fear. If I don't do this correctly, you know, I might get criticized. If I don't do this correctly, you will be disappointed. If I don't do things a certain way, you might not like me.
[00:19:18] And so I, I teach my clients when our motivation is anxiety or fear, it always comes back to bite us in the butt and any actions and any behavior that we do that's based on fear again is exhausting. Our bodies were not made. And meant to be motivated by fear all the time, but I didn't know that. And many of us with Asian heritage, again, we had families that have, some of us, very, very painful pasts where we had to escape our countries and so many of us have resilience and grit and have learned to survive.
[00:19:53] In an environment with a lot of fear and uncertainty and it wasn't even that our parents did anything wrong, but having that constant adrenaline rush that constant fear of what can go wrong was never meant to Be our motivation to live. I truly believe that Unconditional love is the most important thing and without that Many of us look for substitutes and coping mechanisms because that is the one ingredient that fills our heart and when our heart doesn't feel full, we go and find other things, right?
[00:20:36] The Asian brand of feeling your heart ends up being academics, ends up being this loyalty, this brand of sacrifice that I talked about earlier in a previous episode. And because of this, we're called the model minority because externally, it looks good. It looks healthy. But here's the problem. It's still a coping mechanism, just like other people use drugs or alcohol or any kind of medication.
[00:21:07] This is also a coping mechanism. I did this for years, and it was a substitute for love. I know that now, and this is how I know, because when you feel loved, and you know how to love and care for yourself, that feeling lasts. It's a feeling of contentment, of security. Of freedom of lightness. And I don't think I ever had that feeling until I was probably 45 or 46.
[00:21:48] When I finally learned self love here's what you do get a dog. My mother was super clean. and super sensitive to animals and dirt and chaos. And so I never was able to have a pet as a child, even though I begged her every year, please, can I have a dog? Can I have a dog? And so finally, when I was in my 40s, I think it was the year 2016, the reason that I finally let myself get a dog, Was pretty sad.
[00:22:29] I was going through a divorce. I was getting to a point where I was depressed and I felt like I couldn't get out of bed. And I said, I need to have something else to live for or I am not going to be motivated. And so I went on Craigslist and I got myself this beautiful little Shih Tzu. And at this time I was working full time.
[00:22:48] It was before COVID. So I drove into work every day, came home, and I wasn't very happy then yet. And so some days were good, some days were not so good, and I would be up and down. But I noticed something about my dog, Mimi, is every day when I opened that garage door and came in the back door, she would be there greeting me, her tail would be wagging, she'd be so excited, and she'd be smiling!
[00:23:15] Yes, dogs can smile. They show their teeth. And I just felt so appreciated by her. And she was so consistent. And the crazy thing is for the first time in my life, I go, Oh my gosh, this is what unconditional love looks like. And for the first time I realized by comparison, I did not grow up that way. I was constantly afraid of.
[00:23:39] Getting in trouble, doing something wrong, uh, getting shamed, you know, I was afraid of other people getting yelled at. In my marriage, we did not know unconditional love. There was more criticism than, than kindness on both sides. And I never knew that kind of relationship.
[00:23:59] And so... The awareness was the beginning of change. Maybe it was several years later when I said, you know, I want to treat myself the way that Mimi treats me. I used to label days good and bad. If I got a lot done, if people in my life were kind to me, if people appreciated me, if they said good job, and if nothing negative happened where I didn't get criticized or yelled at or told that I was not enough, then I would call it a good day.
[00:24:27] So you can imagine I didn't have a lot of good days. So I used to label that. Based on what I did and after having Mimi Eventually something shifted in which I wanted to treat myself the way she treated me. So if you've been a people pleaser, even for 20, 30, 40 years, it's not too late because what you're missing is a technique on how to start taking ownership of how you spend your time and what you do.
[00:25:02] So one of the things. I want you to try is look at your life today, and you might need to listen to the next episode before you practice this because one of the, one of the reasons that we don't change is we are in denial. And there's a whole episode coming up about that. Uh, what Egypt has to do with roadblocks to success.
[00:25:25] So one of the things you've got to start saying is, I don't like this. May, maybe a lot of us were taught not to complain, especially girls. We were told to be nice, to share, to adapt. And so many of us. We're taught to smile, suck it up, just ignore it. That's not, that's not, that's not healthy loving parenting.
[00:25:47] We have emotions for a reason. When we're angry, sad, upset, it's a signal that something's wrong, that we're not being taken care of, and we need to start expressing these emotions. So right now, just from today, look at your life and go, which area, what event, or what person causes me the most stress? And it's not complaining, it's not being bitchy, you're just being honest.
[00:26:10] All right. And I want you to say that one sentence to yourself and go, you know, this area of my life is stressful. And that first awareness, that identification is what you need. And if you've ever been to therapy, that's what the first step is, right? Therapists go, what is going on? Let's be honest. Let's take some time.
[00:26:26] Look at this. Because when we're in denial and we tell ourselves, I'm fine, it'll get better. It's my fault. I'll just work harder. We cover up the problem. And so by you being on this pod, listening to this podcast already, I'm guessing you're already self aware and that's a very, very good start. So pinpoint one thing that's causing you stress.
[00:26:49] Maybe your boss gives you last minute work every single weekend. Maybe there's no clarity in your job and you're. Overlapping tasks with another person. Uh, maybe there's some confusion regarding processes and it's causing you a lot of anxiety. Don't blame yourself. Don't feel like, you know, I should be able to figure this out myself because I was hired for this position.
[00:27:12] Whenever you feel something, acknowledge it. Go, I'm allowed to have feelings and I'm allowed to go fix something. That's stressful. I believe that the reason a lot of us don't fix things that are stressful is because we grew up in very stressful situations and we're used to it and we think it's normal, but the goal of this podcast is to show, you know, stress is meant to be an alarm that, that tells you I need help.
[00:27:39] And we need to fix this so I can be happy and relaxed again. So identify what's causing you stress. Be honest, be truthful about what that is. And instead of. Writing up about it on Nextdoor or venting in your Facebook group or trying to use your best friend as a therapist. Go deal with that person directly.
[00:28:02] I know, scary. Go deal with that person directly. Many people tell me, but you know what, nothing's going to change. They won't listen. True, but here's why your voice is so important. This is the way you're going to start changing your people pleasing habits. Is when you use your voice, when you finally speak the truth.
[00:28:27] You're able to change things if you stay silent. You're just accepting the status quo and you're not going to be able to have any agency. And so the secret to start taking ownership and having agency in your life is to speak up. Even if you think the other person is completely going to disrespect you and not listen to you, it doesn't matter.
[00:28:52] Guess what? Because you're speaking up for yourself. You are not speaking up for their sake. I found this out in such a cool way where when you have the agency to say, The last three emails I sent, I'm waiting for a response from you. I'm concerned that our communication is going to hold up the project deadlines, even if just saying that will make you feel less like a victim, less like you're being bullied and that you have some control.
[00:29:23] And this kind of control is better than trying to work hard and please other people because that kind of will make you exhausted, resentful, angry and tired. But this kind of control where you speak truth. It's like putting up a shield and that feels good. So that's your tip on how you can start to take agency to get agency back in your life.
[00:29:49] If you, if this episode brings up memories for you. Feeling unwanted, unloved, I get you and I've got a meditation for you. I've got a little something that I'm recording for you right now so that you can be filled with the truth and you can let go a little bit today of that feeling because that's a leftover feeling.
[00:30:16] It's a lie. There is no human being on earth that is more wanted or more unwanted. A lot of times our parents didn't know any better or they did know better and they were mean, but that has nothing to do with you. And I remember one of the most healing things that was told me was my seventh therapist.
[00:30:38] One day in her office, I can still see her glasses and her brown hair and she said to me, Jeanny You were a perfect little daughter. Any loving parent would have wanted you and cherished you and loved you. And that's what I've got for you right now is my dear ceiling breaker. You were born perfect. You were born to be loved.
[00:31:06] And you were a gift and there's nothing wrong with you. And there's nothing that you could do to be loved more or loved less. And when you felt those feelings of being unwanted, unloved, it wasn't your fault. And we are here for restoration. We are here to teach you that you don't have to keep proving yourself.
[00:31:30] You don't have to keep being perfect. So that your career and your personal life is all together. It's your mistakes and your quirkiness and your incompleteness that makes you human and makes you lovable and fun. There are so many things about you that you don't remember and think about that others see and experience that make you who you are and you are loved.
[00:31:58] You are lovable and you have so much to give to the world. That still needs to be explored and drawn out. I know, I know this because I've experienced this in so many people. And the reflection that you see is going to get clearer and clearer. And soon, one day, you're going to be proud of who you are.
[00:32:22] You're going to be overwhelmed. With all the goodness and the amazingness that is inside you that's not yet tapped. And you're going to really like yourself. And when that moment comes, it will not matter anymore what your boss says, what people at your company say behind your back. It's not going to matter what your ex did to you or thought about you.
[00:32:46] It won't even matter anymore that your parents... Still to this day are disappointed at you and boss you around like you're three years old. It won't matter because you will know yourself. You will have certainty that you are valuable and you are approved already. And so I want you to know it's not too late.
[00:33:07] How you feel about yourself can be changed in three, four, five short months. And when your understanding of yourself is actually lined up with who you really are, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And you're gonna feel light, and you're gonna love your life, and you're gonna discover a happiness that you haven't had since you were two.
[00:33:28] And I know this because I have discovered this. by accident. And I'm going to share all my secrets with you in these podcast episodes.
[00:33:49] Next week, we'll be talking about achievement orientation and how many of us, when we feel like we're not enough, we have a compulsion to work and work really hard: Asian hard. And that's too much because again, it's become a compulsion. It's become something we don't know how to stop. And so if this has been you your whole life, I completely understand that there is a way out and it's simpler than you think.
[00:34:14] So don't forget to join us next week. If you'd like to leave a written review for me at podchaser. com, I'd be so grateful. And if you're on LinkedIn. Follow me there at jeannychai. I send out tips. I will also be beginning the post every morning and you can ask me questions. You can comment on my posts and have a way to interact with me every day on a regular basis, Monday through Friday.
[00:34:43] I'll be posting at 11 a. m. Pacific every morning, which is two o'clock Eastern. So I'll see you there.