EP07: Porn

We would like to pay our deepest respects to the traditional custodians of the land we are currently on, the Boorong and the Wurundjeri Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. We acknowledge and pay respect to their elders both past, present and emerging and through them to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. These recordings are based on our own experiences, so just a warning, it can get quite explicit with sexual references and themes.

where Asian Australian women explore love, sex and relationships. I'm Jasmine. I'm Jen. And I'm Jackie. I'm so excited about today's topic. Well, my favorite type of porn is erotic literature. It's stories that are in the written form. Yeah, just think of a book, but it's just, it's got plot. It's got a lot of sexual scenes described really quite well. I love it. I love it. And there's so many genres. Like.

I like to frequent is literotica.com. And my favorite category is... non-consent slash reluctance but there's also like more tame ones like romance uh fantasies you could include aliens robots maybe a dystopian future for apocalypse

Yeah, there's so many. There's heaps. So how did you get into erotic literature? Because Jasmine talks a lot about erotic literature and is probably reading it every single night. That's probably true. Yeah, that is true. Yeah, um, I guess like for me, it's sort of a reading fanfiction. You know how you just ship characters together? You're like, oh, they're so cute together.

I had my OTP, one true pairing. But then sometimes... OTP, one true pairing. Okay, that's the best I've heard. Yeah, like, for example, you know Hunger Games, right? Yeah. Do you ship Peter and Katniss or Peter and Gail? I mean Katniss and Gail. Wait, is Peter the main guy? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I shipped Peter. You shipped? Oh, as in you... Moved away from thinking. No, no, no. As in you wanted them to get together. You shipped them together. You shipped them together. Okay, right. I shipped them.

Yeah, not in separate parcels. You ship them together. Okay, okay. I feel like I'm so old. Oh, you want that cruise to ride. Yeah. For me, I shipped Katniss and Gail, right? So... Whatever happens in the movie plot, what's official, that's regarded as canon. And if it's not, then it's non-canon. So, yeah. So fan fiction.

Yeah, so I would just like to read about the pairings that I like. You know, sometimes they're not canon, sometimes they are. And then one day I was like, how is a rating system in terms of like maturity on fanfiction.net? i was like hmm what's mature oh my god i was in grade seven at the time and i was like whoa that got sexy oh my god so

There's rating in literature, which is similar to like a film, like television, like where there's rating for a film. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. And then after that, I was just like, I want to read more sexy stories. And then I found this site, which is, yeah, literotica.com, which probably is a fusion between literature and erotica. So it's literotica. Yeah. Yeah. So sexy fanfiction. Well, here's the thing. On this site, it's not just fanfiction. You also have original stories by creators.

sometimes you do get professional writers sometimes they test out the stories on these sites before they publish but yeah but a lot of them are like yeah just people like you and me making accounts on reddit or something like that yeah yeah yeah practicing creative writing yeah yeah so it's all available online it's free to consume

That opened up a whole new world for me. And I swear, when I read the first story on that site, oh my God, I was so horny. And I never looked back since. So this is when you started when you were year seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Do you read regular novels? Yeah, sometimes I've branched out to actually downloading actual published novels. But that are erotic. Yes. Oh, but what about like...

Just regular novels that aren't erotic. Do you? Oh, there's just not enough spice for me anymore. Okay. You know? Yeah. So your nightly reading is erotic literature. It's got them sex scenes in the story. How descriptive are the sex scenes? Okay, it depends on how well... It's written by the writer. Because sometimes it's a bit of a mixed bag. Sometimes you get really good members who write really good stories. I usually follow them. And then sometimes you get like...

shit ones. And there's a rating system too. People can make comments. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. So it's like five stars. You know, it's good. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, if you, have you read erotic literature before?

Never. Like, do you know of any at least? I mean, I read Fifty Shades and Fifty Shades Darker just because it was all the craze. But I have read... A couple of books that had a sexual scene in them, but I wouldn't consider them erotic. It just was part of the story. Okay. It was a bit of a turn on. But no, I haven't actively gone to read or look for erotic literature before. Okay, okay.

Actually, I was thinking about it. The very first book that I read with a bit more sexual, sex scene in it was the John Marsden. Yeah. Tomorrow when the war began. Tomorrow when the war began. And then like reading it and then it was just like getting a bit like spicy. Yes. But then like never had sex, like not explicit, but it was just a little bit of a…

like intimacy and that was already enough for me. I'm very weak. Wow. Yeah, yeah. I guess in normal mainstream books and stuff like that, they'll mention maybe a sex scene. now and then but it's not really descriptive right it's not the main dish that they're serving so are they usually written like with chapters or are they short stories or yeah depending on the author

Sometimes the stories are standalone. Yeah. And sometimes the stories is part of a series. And because I prefer reading the amateur ones. It's unpublished writers. Yeah, I frequent letteroddigo.com. You know, instead of me searching for books to download, it's just easy for me to go on that site. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if that affects your libido.

Because, you know, like reading something, you might not finish it in the one night, but you're like… you're switched on, you know? Ah, yeah. Like it's a long-drawn experience. Because they'll release chapters at a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're titillated all the time. Yeah, that chapter has no sex scene, so you're like, fuck.

Oh yeah, because you don't know when they're coming. That's right. It builds the plot. Well, sometimes you're lucky as in you'll come across, sometimes there's random stories that are suggested to you and you're like... oh it is a gold mine when you when you realize there's all these chapters for this story you're like yes um but yeah i'm quite like i like saying

updated so i'll look up the site in my genre and i like looking at and they're like oh they got a new chapter today i'm like oh what's gonna happen so so whenever you read it do you always like masturbate if it's a good story if it's good plot Yeah. So it arouses you and then you start playing with yourself? Yes. So do you keep reading while you're playing with yourself?

I think I would finish up the chapter and then afterwards I would just like think about the scene, the plot, and I would get so turned on. Yeah. So, okay. So it's not like you're holding your phone in one hand while you're…

Playing with yourself on the other trying to read a story. That happens with me more when I read like hentai. Like the manga version of porn. Yeah. Is it visual or reading? That's more visual. Ah, okay. Because it's like a comic, but it's all explicit scenes. Right. So then do you watch hentai? Ah, yeah, but I prefer… Watching hentai is a video form of it. I would say the graphics aren't as good for the movements as like real life. So you're better off-

looking at the stills, like the comic version. So then your imagination fill in the gap. Yeah, and the artwork is so much better. I mean, I would say like... By me reading erotic literature, it helps me explore what type of kinks and fantasies that I like. Like I... Or that you want to try. Yeah, yeah. And what really turns me on. And I guess it's like...

For me, like, I always gravitate towards the non-consent slash reluctance themes. Okay. I mean, yeah. Why do you think? I think it's because, yeah, I don't need to be in control. And oh, okay. The type of stories I really like that really titillate me are the ones where the girl gets abducted. By a captor. Yeah. And then, you know, the captor seduces the girl. And then eventually the captor falls in love with the girl, but then the girl independently runs away.

Yeah. And he's like, oh, no, I fucked up. Come back. And he's like, on my turn, bitch. You know, like that's what the girl says back. But yeah, that's good. So in that sense, it shows that you like to.

Let go of control. Yeah, because I think it's hard for me to let go in real life. And when I'm reading a wrote lyric chart, it really takes my mind to a place elsewhere. Like, it's the character. It's not me. And because it's a buildup, it's much easier for you to get aroused. I think there's no pressure on you. And I guess it's a good way for you to like, if you want to like fantasize about anything.

It's a safe place for you to explore your potential kinks and fantasies, whether you're reading them or you're writing them. The limit is your imagination. Yeah. So do you ever feel like some of the themes or the characters in the stories have diversity issues? Yeah, yeah. You know, are there? I mean. Once again, it depends on the stories that you're looking for, the ones that you click on, the type of the authors that you're looking at. But I would just say there's so much diversity in and...

I think compared to watching porn on like Pornhub like the videos, like when you're reading about the characters and how they're being built, like there's just so much more depth. The people in the story are more dimensional. You can read about their motives. When you're reading the sex scenes, you can read their thought process, their feelings, expression. It just seems so much more intimate when you're reading it.

Okay. Compared to like for me when watching porn, it just seems so, I don't know, transactional in and out. That's it. Yeah, there's not a lot of ethical porn out there. Yeah, and the acting's not that good. The plot's really half-assed. The plot in these stories are amazing. Yeah, the ones that I read. So you like reading erotic literature because you like to engage with the emotional side of the sexual encounter. Yeah, most definitely. Or like the build-up of it. The build-up.

There's just so much room for character development. Yeah, it's really good. So how do you think… reading erotic literature has affected your expectations of sex in real life yeah i would definitely maybe me as a person i'm quite idealistic in terms of romance i'm like ah yeah yeah so like um yeah I think it's definitely made me have unrealistic expectations about sex in real life um in terms of like The amount of buildup it takes, the foreplay. It's so much more thought and...

Not hesitation. It's just suspense and anticipation built up when you're reading it. In real life, I haven't had that experience where a person's that really good at… Yeah, riling me up so far. So I guess like… Like for me, at least when I'm reading Erotic Lyric Shop, I get that sense. Watching videos, it doesn't give me that satisfaction. Actually, it just makes me feel...

If I like climax after it or something like that, I just feel a bit cheap and a bit shameful watching the videos. Yeah. I think that's the purpose of porn, like to just get off. For me, that's what porn is about. Yeah, just to get off. Yeah.

That's the goal of it. Yeah, I suppose that's what it was made for. Yeah, and I think, yeah, watching porn, it's interesting because, like, there are some things that I watch and... I actually learned some things. What did you learn? It's because I usually watch very missionary stuff. Yeah, yeah. And… I don't really branch out. And then when I do, because I actually don't really like going down on the guy. And I find it, I used to find the penis and the testicles.

very disgusting and confronting because I didn't have an appreciation and I wasn't exposed to it. Yeah, it's not the most pleasant place to put your head. Yeah, I have, yeah, so, you know, without any... prior experience I have I don't have any exposure to penises and you know testicles and so I never really wanted to go down on someone and I also feel a bit more degraded in that sense um but over time started to really

understand the beauty of like the male human genitals and when I watch porn then like okay I just see how a woman enjoys pleasuring the man I'm like oh okay this doesn't look too degrading then I might be inspired to try it out and then like okay and then I I did and um it was

Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. So that's where I accidentally come across a scene that I found inspiration from and learnt how to do something. But besides that, most of the things like I'm... quite I feel quite standard so so you saw a scene in a porn clip where the woman enjoyed giving head to the guy. Yeah. And it inspired you to give head. Yes. Did you enjoy it? I enjoyed pleasuring the guy, yes. Okay.

Yeah, it's because it wasn't like so rough. It was a bit more like leisurely. It was a bit more like cock worship. Worshipping a cock. I guess so. But not really. I get what you're saying, but yeah, I wasn't like praying to it. Yeah. Okay. Jen learned to appreciate cock through porn. I mean, do you, any of you get inspiration from porn or what's the purpose of you watching porn?

Yeah, when I was younger, I did, I guess, pay more attention to different positions maybe. Like girls on top. Yeah, stuff like that. Just, yeah.

um, more position stuff. I don't think it was anything more specific than that. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, it doesn't really inspire me anymore, but I am quite picky about porn that I watch now. because there's so much shit out there. What are you picking out? Like how are you being more picky? What are you filtering? Well, I don't actually use keywords to search for porn anymore.

Because the last few years I've been using this website called Belessa, which is what they claim to be more ethical porn and, you know, with the female viewer in mind. Yeah, I don't use keywords anymore. I just go and then I like search for a bit and see what I like from the little thumbnails. Why do you like it more than like the normal videos that you see on Pornhub? Because…

The videos that you see in Pornhub are degrading to women and there's not a lot of diversity. Yeah, they heavily play on stereotypes. Sometimes I don't even know if it's consensual. It's very problematic. And I always felt uncomfortable looking for porn because I didn't want to watch that. And I didn't want to be turned on by that. And so one day I just, I Googled, you know, porn for her or ethical porn or something like that. Because, yeah, I just wanted to be able to watch.

porn without having to go through all that garbage. And then Belessa came up in the Google search and I haven't stopped using it since. Like I just, they've got three main, yeah, I mean, they've got categories, but they're generally split into three. So it's like sensual, rough or passionate. And so it's like different levels of. intensity of the sex. I mean, so far I haven't seen too much diversity in terms of ethnicity, but you do see more diversity in terms of people's bodies. All right.

And there just seems to be more connection between the two porn stars. Well, I don't know if they consider themselves porn stars, but the two actors. The two participants. Yeah. And I don't think all of the content is produced by Belessa. I think some of it is and some of it gets uploaded from other more artful porn production companies. And then there's also Amateur. So, yeah. Overall, it's just a much nicer website to be on. There's no, like, disgusting ads and pop-ups.

And, yeah. It sounds really good, that website. I mean, I don't use anything else. If I need a wank, I go to Belessa. Right. Yeah.

So it's satisfied me so far. I think it's better porn. Yeah, right. Because I only just search up my keywords and then like through the videos on Google, like I look at trusted. Yeah. That's what I used to do. Yeah, which is, well, all I know is Pornhub. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just go to that. And the thing is I use it on my phone and like.

Straight afterwards, I delete my history. Oh, just browse incognito. Yeah, yeah, do that. Incognito. Which is an app? No, no, no. There should be an incognito option. for your web browser. Oh, okay. Where it doesn't keep viewing history. Oh, okay. I should use it. Yeah. Yeah, I just like look it up and delete straight away because, yeah, there's that shame that I have. Because I don't watch it openly. Like I watch it.

quietly and I don't even put the volume on. Wow. But you need to hear all the moans and groans. I know. Like sometimes I do if I'm alone, but it's such a private thing like watching porn. Just use headphones. But I don't go to that extent. I just like quick wank and okay, let's quickly go. I do it so secretively. But Jen, you're married. Like, do you watch it with...

No, I've never. Just like by yourself even when you're married, yeah? I've never watched it with a partner before. Do you? Have you? I haven't ever. I've done it once. Yeah? And how did that go? Did you act it out as the scenes? No. It was kind of... Yeah. Well, you just watch porn and then you get turned on by it and then you have sex and that's it. And you just do it. Like it was kind of pointless. Yeah. Yeah, right. But do any of you feel shame watching it?

Of course. Like, I do. Like, that's why… Even Shane reading erotic literature? No, it's different. Oh! Yeah, yeah. So, if I want to be a dirty girl or whatever, I just watch the porn, get it done, done. Yep.

But if I want to have an emotional feeling or like get some intimacy from the sexual content, then I'll read it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't feel as… shameful that way and I guess remember like when I read it uh it's the characters it's not me I guess when I watch porn I don't know watching is just different for me yeah it's just so much more dirty like

Less idealistic. Yeah, it's very rough, isn't it? I mean, don't get me wrong. Like when I read the stories, there are rough scenes too. But it's just, I think it's the character, it's the intimacy that you get. It's more. You can connect more through reading. More acceptable. No you can connect more through reading it.

stronger intimacy that you can feel. As in like the medium itself. Yeah. Like reading compared to viewing. Yeah. Or are you talking about the style of sex that gets depicted? The typical type of porn that you see on the mainstream porn sites, a lot of it's from the male point of view. Yeah, of course. Yeah, like it's a lot of like… blowjobs and maybe it's a trait to treat women as objects. Whereas when you're reading about it and the characters are written out, it could be...

either by male or female. I just feel like sometimes you can find more content that fleshes out the person as a person, you know? Yeah, I'm just thinking about like how…

I was always shut down even like watching normal movies and TV series that anytime there's a sex scene, like my parents would cover my eyes. Your Asian parents were like, ah! I would just like… feel so shameful and I can't watch it and then like there's no character behind it like it shuts up that personality of being able to express myself but then hearing you say when you read them

the erotic literature and you feel the emotions of what these people go through, it gives you that sense of freedom and like building more self-confidence in yourself sexually. Yeah, yeah. Which was like stunted. you know, from my upbringing. Yeah. And it's like, oh, is this what people feel when they're having sex? And when you're watching porn, like, do you like watching, like you mentioned on Belisa.

That there's not much ethnicity, diversity. Do you like watching Asians in porn? In video form? Um, no. Oh, why? It could either be like porn with only Asians, like from Japan for example, Japanese porn. Or it could be like Western porn with Asian actresses, for example. I mean…

I've seen Japanese porn before. Didn't like it. I didn't like anything about it. Why didn't you like it? What about it did you not like? A lot of the scenarios... didn't sit well with me it was non-consensual or like yeah I don't know when I looked at it there seemed to be a lot of those kind of recurring themes it just seemed A bit fake, I guess. Like, the women would moan in a really weird way. Like, I heard you're like... Yeah, and then I'm like, oh, no, that doesn't sound great to me at all.

And their faces never looked like they were pleasurable. Yeah. But that's just maybe specifically the Japanese ones that I saw. Oh. I've seen some Chinese ones. I think they call it like Cat 3 movies. What? Like Category 3. So like R, 18 rated or whatever. In Chinese? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know it's a softcore porn movie.

Some of them used to really turn me on a lot. Even though they're not really having sex in the scenes, it's kind of like, I don't know, enjoyable in some ways. Yeah, I go through porn phases as well with what I watch. So there used to be a phase where I, like, looked up weird Asian movie, Cat 3 movie sex scenes. Yeah, it was also very fake, but for some reason it didn't really turn me off. And then so I... looked up actual Asian porn that wasn't movie. And it was...

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't like it. I think the fact that it was a movie and everyone's just a bad actor kind of added to that element to it, to the enjoyability. Like, yeah. I don't often see Asian women in porn either. On Balessa, there is this one Asian woman that I really like watching. But, yeah. What's her name?

I don't know her name. So she pops up sometimes. That one Asian. And then I'd watch it. And yeah. And then it just seems like a normal person. So it doesn't seem staged or anything like that. But yeah, generally, no. don't like asian porn yeah i'm i'm similar like um i think when i used to watch tv series and it's this romantic connection between like two asian actor and they get a bit more

just kissing a little bit and that already turns me on but then like but that's in like that's that's not even porn but that's just being something romantic and like you know it's about the emotional connection But I don't really watch Chinese people or even Asians in porn because I feel like it's... it's a bit too close to heart. Like they, yeah, I don't want to be like, I feel like I'm, I could be them and I don't want to be treated like that in those scenes.

And yeah, like similar to what Jackie is saying, like some of these women don't look like they're enjoying it. And I don't know, there's this culture of wanting to be... What's the word that you use, Jasmine? Reluctance? Reluctance. Yeah, so there is such a reluctance with the woman. wanting to have sex but she wants to but she doesn't and it's just so awkward I look at her and I go it's so awkward and they're not enjoying themselves and yeah I see

having sex as a form of enjoyment. Yeah. And if you're not enjoying it, then like, yeah, I'd just rather not. So I watch porn which don't have Asian in it. But even amateur? If it was like amateur porn and there were Asians or it was an Asian couple, I'd watch it. I don't even watch amateur. Like, I watch filmic. Like, high quality. Set design, and the lighting. 4K. Sometimes you can get pretty creative now.

Like there are some videos that I've seen that I'm like, whoa, cinematically, this is really good. From the amateur? No, not from amateur, from like produced porn. Yeah. And like I've saved some of it as well. Oh. You actually downloaded the port? Not downloaded it. I just like bookmarked it. Just so it's like there. Because like I remember watching this one.

where the lights were like blue and pink and they were sitting in this mirrored box. That's artsy. I know. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, whoa, this is really cool. And then I like sent it to someone who I was sleeping with at the time. And I was like, yeah, you should watch this. Wow, I've never shared porn. I've shared erotic.

stories but not like as in video clips yeah but like just just the whole production of it was like of great value so i like shared it i can understand that like sometimes i look at the hentai and the artwork is like oh that looks amazing like the shading of this makes the boobs look 3d in that way like for me i um i like watching asians and porn depending on the video obviously like

Yes with Japanese porn there is that some of the videos you do see that it's quite often intensively it looks like the girls not really enjoying it but I feel like in Japanese porn, you do get to see scenes that are more, I guess, satisfying for women in terms of the acts that they do. Give us an example. So the girl…

We'll have two guys sucking each tit. Oh. Like you don't see that as often in Western porn, do you? Because it's more for, I would say most of the time, it's more for the male gaze. No, I reckon it's out there. I reckon. I've never seen that. I wouldn't be interested. I don't know. It just seems like when you find the clips, I would say I see it more often in Japanese porn that they're pleasuring the girl.

multiple guys pleasuring the girl in that way rather than in the Western ones where it's usually the girl pleasuring the guys more. That's from my observations. Interesting. I also like watching Asian women. in the western type of porn because i go yeah you go girl yeah she's also petite like me you know maybe i could make it a point in this room maybe like you know if this type of body can turn some people out there

Maybe my body, which is kind of similar, can turn people on too, you know? So is that what you aspire to, Jasmine, when you watch those porn with Asian women in it? I'm like, yeah, look at these Asian women being so confident in the bedroom. These porn videos. Do you search? Like specifically search for Asian porn stars? Now and then, yeah. But what about fits my mood of the day or night?

I just feel like whether you're Asian or not, in mainstream porn the women are just stereotyped and objectified. Even if it's a professional Asian porn star, I just feel uncomfortable seeing an Asian woman. Well, particularly uncomfortable compared to like white women or other women of colour. Because I see someone that looks like me being fetishized. Oh, there's definitely a fetish. Like, you know, when they describe the videos.

On the side. Oh yeah. Hashtag. Whatever keyword they use. It's always like Asian women getting plowed or whatever, right? It's never just women. It's always like Asian women. I mean, there's a whole Asian... There's an Asian category on Pornhub, which I don't know. Yeah, I tend to look at porn which has European women or like Western women or white women. blonde chicks kind of thing because it's just so far away from me that I...

His might sound quite wrong, but like I would just objectify the body of the woman. It sounds so wrong. But then I just look for the shape, the size, like just something that I just… don't have any association with and just look at it like objectively as a body getting pleasured and yeah, I'm just keeping it like an arm's length. for my enjoyment and also for my kind of mental safety of not being affected by. Because sometimes like if I accidentally watch.

Yeah, accidentally because I'm curious to watch what Asian porn is. And it's like a Chinese woman being massaged by a Chinese man who is like a... doctor because she's trying to get a sexual experience but she's covering herself and refusing it and not really willing to let go I get I get bad dreams about that and yeah so that's why like I

don't want to watch these kind of sex scenes with Asian women. For me, it's more about the Asian guys in terms of they look like uncles to me. So like I know I mentioned before that sometimes the Japanese point is good but it depends on the Japanese guys they have to be hot and like on the younger side because if they're

Leading towards middle age and older, I'm like, that guy looks like an uncle to me. I can't do this. So are there like certain scenes or topics or themes that you avoid? Just Asian older men. Not just Asian older men. But also incest. Step siblings and step parents. Nah. Not for me. Even when I'm reading like not. Yeah. Is there anything that you wouldn't want to check out?

porn wise? I don't want to check out the real abusive ones and I don't check out more than just two people. Like a heterosexual couple. But I have – yeah, having said that, I have expanded slowly into like lesbian couples because it's – I came across one where the woman is so – enjoying herself. Her orgasm is so more real to me and it's two women pleasuring each other and so it's softer.

I avoid like real roughness, like abusive kind of like hair pulling I don't like and like straps, leather, whips or any of those kind of props I avoid. And yeah, like gangs or like threesomes. Yeah, nah. So. I have a lot of categories. That's a lot, yeah. So I'm very vanilla. Like I'm very like streamlined, like, you know, heterosexual couples. Nice and sweet. Because I considered...

I consider sex as more of an act of love, like a making love rather than like, fucking like, you know, having sex, yeah. Oh my God. Get the whip out.

Sorry, that was just like – but I'm just – you get my message. I get you, yeah. So you want some authenticity. Yes, absolutely. So the chemistry between a couple is so important. Like it's so – lovely to watch like oh they're having fun mucking around in the kitchen and then like they go and have sex yeah Jackie do you have any like you know themes like avoid or like Besides the Asian women? Not consciously, I don't think. I mean, I don't, yeah, like I don't, I look through what.

I'm shown on the website so and a lot of it is quite heteronormative no actually lately a lot has come up that have been like female to female or threesomes and stuff like that It's not something I actively avoid or actively look for. Yeah, because sometimes I am not sure whether I want to... like waste my time because I don't know if the threesome or the female to female videos are made for the female gaze or the male gaze.

And so I don't want to like skim through it and then realise, oh, this is more geared towards a male gaze. It's interesting, this conversation, like hearing how we have such...

Well, yeah, some of us have quite idealistic ideas of what our sexual encounters should be or could be. But then like hearing what you're saying, Jasmine, it's such a safe space to explore. explore and you know looking at erotic literature or any like porn video content it's like a nice space for you to just personally explore

what you like and dislike and how you want to be treated and not be treated. That's right. Because I didn't bring up what I was reading with my partner at all because I was just like, oh, I don't think they can.

handle it or like no no no it's not like i don't think they can handle it i i thought they're gonna think i'm weird or something for reading these type of genres yeah yeah Yeah, I think it's great that we're talking about it like because I had no idea about erotic literature and like I had no idea like what. you know as a reader like you know you Jasmine as a reader like reading it and what it does to you and like yeah like just understanding those emotional connections that you have with these

sexual encounters. Like it's quite fascinating to me because I don't really think about it in that sense until I physically encounter these things. I don't know if I'm making sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely an emotional and sexual outlet for me. Yeah. You know, ultimately, porn should be a more positive thing than it actually is. because it's an exploration of your wants and needs. You should be able to watch it comfortably and not have to feel like...

you need to dissociate yourself if an Asian woman comes up. You know, that says more about how men or our society sees Asian women than the actual act itself. Yeah. I don't think I even know how to feel empowered through watching porn as a woman of colour. Wouldn't it just be like the woman of colour gang? The pleasure that she wants and deserts? Yeah, possibly, yeah. Yeah. I think that's... Yeah, seeing her enjoying herself. Maybe not that many Asian women actually enter the porn industry.

But maybe we're not watching like actual Asian women in their own homeland. That might be a very different context because we're watching like – Asian women in Western context, but what if we actually were Chinese people in China watching Chinese porn, like from a Chinese porn hub? That would be a completely different context.

Maybe the Japanese ladies watching the Japanese porn like it. I don't know. Probably, hey? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No idea. But I think for us being like Asian women in Western society. We're looking for like equitable porn that is… Ethical. No, equitable. Equitable. Yeah, like equitable and… Ethical. Ethical. Yeah. For like Asian women to be on the same par as any men of ethnicity and just feel like…

we can have control over our sexual experiences on porn sites. Yeah. But it's going to be such a long way away to feel that. lack of like disparity between us. Like, yeah, it'll be such a, so far in the future to not even see our race in these content. Yeah. But some people do play into the whole race. Yeah. Fetishizing. Yeah. So what I'm saying is going to take quite some time to get there and I don't feel like.

with our current landscape that it could be done. And because we are not looking at ourselves in a Asian society, we're looking at ourselves in a Western society. So are you going to watch some porn tonight? I'm pretty tired. Are we happy to wrap it up? Thank you for listening to Asian Girl Talk. We'd love to know what you thought about our conversations. Follow us on Instagram at Asian Girl Talk. Give us a comment and a like.