The election may be over, but that certainly doesn't mean things are settled on Parliament Hill, and that gives, at issue, a lot to talk about. I'm Rosemary Barton, CBC's chief political correspondent, and every week I'm joined by three of Canada's top political journalists.
Chantal Ibert, Andrew Coyne, and Althea Raj to help you understand what's at stake as the Liberals settled in for another minority and the Conservatives try to hold them to account. Follow At Issue as we break down the biggest stories in Canadian politics. new podcasts every Friday. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Neil Kirksell. And I'm Chris Houghton. And before we start the show, we'd like to ask you for a favor.
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We wouldn't mind if you'd also rate and review as it happens. It goes a long way towards helping us reach more listeners. Okay, now here's today's show. Face to face, but not quite eye to eye, a former Canadian ambassador to Washington says that despite his bluster about the 51st state, when Mark Carney visited the White House, the president Seemed to respect the Prime Minister. From bad to worse to worse.
The head of a British charity supporting Palestinians tells us he's trying to stay hopeful despite Israeli plans that promise to make life for civilians in Gaza even more dangerous. Zero compromise on zero tolerance. As cardinals gather in Rome to choose a new pope, a survivor of sexual abuse tells us now has to be the time for the Catholic Church to make things right.
It's a free country. Well, right now it's a free province. But we'll hear from an activist who believes Alberta should be its own country. and is confident a referendum would deliver just that verdict. The needles and the damage undone during the NHL playoffs, an Edmonton Oilers fanatic is crocheting emotional support chickens Yes, chickens, obviously, for her fellow stressed-out fans in the hopes that her handiwork will unknit their brows.
and thrust into the limb light, will cuttle up with the cuttlefish, which science suggests is using its many flexible arms to communicate in some kind of sign language. As it happens, the Tuesday edition, radio that's also available as a cephalopodcast. It was the meeting Canadians have been anticipating and dreading for weeks. A sit-down at the White House between the President and the Prime Minister. And Donald Trump's opening line to Mark Carney was promising.
His party was losing by a lot, and he ended up winning, so I really want to congratulate him. He was probably one of the greatest comebacks in the history of politics. But before long, the US president was repeating his lines about how Canada should become the 51st state. Here's how the Prime Minister responded.
As you know from real estate, there are some places that are never for sale. We're sitting in one right now, Buckingham Palace, if you visited as well. And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign the last several months, It's not for sale won't be for sale ever You could hear President Trump agreeing there, but then later he added this. Never say never. Never say never.
The talk about Canada's sovereignty was mixed in with talk from President Trump about the key issue for Canadians, trade. He said he would not drop his tariffs and that America didn't need Canadian cars, steel or aluminum. Frank McKenna is Canada's former ambassador to Washington. We reached him in Toronto. Frank McKenna, in the end, would you say this is a good day for Canada? Yeah, I think it's a real good day. The fact is that Trump has hit the stage all to himself.
These last number of months saying some of the most blatantly outrageous things that a world leader has ever said about another country. And this was our chance to respond. And I thought it was terrific that we had a prime minister elected in a very recent election with a dripping wet mandate.
who can go and sit in the Oval Office and say that our country is not for sale, not now, not ever. It sounds like you think then that he struck the right kind of balance between asserting himself and Canada's sovereignty, but also... Appealing. to this president. Yeah, you know, you're asking a really important question because there's no right answer as to how you'd treat a president as well.
who has proven to be very erratic. Everybody is conscious of a Zelensky moment when the entire world was embarrassed to watch what took place. or even a Sturmer moment where it would appear that he was excessively obsequious. So I think our prime minister was looking for the balance of being respectful. I'm in somebody else's house. But I'm not being obsequious. I'm not there genuflecting. I'm not there on bended knee. I'm there as an equal, the leader of a sovereign country.
Prime Minister Carney spoke at a news conference and told reporters that he asked the president at their private lunch to stop talking about Canada as another state but he did not say how Trump responded. Do you think that that rhetoric is going to actually stop? Look, again, it's hard to know with this president, but it may. You know, we could elevate the debate if we wanted to. Obviously, Canada's not for sale, nor has anybody in Canada an interest in joining the United States.
But Alaska is indicated by a margin, I think, of up to 36% that it would consider separating from the United States. And one might want to mention somewhat mischievously that Alaska would fit in beautifully. It would be just like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. It's joined to Canada, it's not joined to the United States, and wouldn't it be lovely?
If Alaska could join Canada, I think that President Trump might stop pretty quickly talking about breaking up countries if he heard that his own country might be vulnerable. Trade was obviously at the top of the agenda, and the prime minister did take issue with what the U.S. president was saying on that front. We'll play that for our audience.
I'll say a word on USMCA if I may, Mr. President. It is a basis for a broader negotiation. Some things about it are going to have to change. And part of the way you've conducted these tariffs has taken advantage of existing aspects of USMCA. So it's going to have to change.
There's other elements that have come, and that's part of what we're going to discuss. Knowing what you know about these kinds of conversations and closed-door meetings, what do you think was said about trade behind closed-door? Oh, I think they would get right into the nitty-gritty of what Prime Minister Kearney said, because we have a binding agreement. We had a binding agreement on NAFTA, and the president tore it up.
and negotiated what he said was the best deal ever, and now he's tearing it up. And even though it's still a binding agreement between three sovereign nations, He's breaking it at every single step. Steel and aluminum is in breach of it. The auto tariffs are in breach of it. The so-called fentanyl tariffs are in breach of it.
By declaring an emergency or declaring it a critical economic interest, he's just making a total mockery of the agreement that we have signed. So Prime Minister Carney is dead right. If we're going to have an agreement with the United States,
We've got to figure out how it can be enforced and how it can have integrity so that somebody can't take advantage of it every time there's a whim. So I thought it was important to set the record straight there. Look, if we're going to have a deal, let's have a deal. What Canada did not get so far is an assurance that tariffs are going to go away. In fact, Trump said he's not dropping the tariffs and said he does not want to see Canada making cars or selling steel or aluminum.
to the United States. So where do things go in terms of negotiating with the White House? Is there still room and time to get those tariffs? No, absolutely. I think we have a litigation track going as well, and we should. What the president's done is in breach of the law. But just let's take the two things that you've mentioned. Aluminum, we supply 70% of America's aluminum.
They cannot compete. We have access to low-price power through hydro, and we will continue to supply the United States with aluminum. Similarly with steel, we'll continue to supply some of their steel. In the case of autos, The president has got to get his facts straight. We are not taking autos away from the United States. We only supply about 10% of the autos in North America. But we have 40 million people. We drive cars too. We're entitled to have autos manufactured in Canada.
So if the president says all the autos in the U.S. have to be manufactured in the United States, which would be dumb, does that mean that every car that's driven in Canada needs to be manufactured in Canada? If so, why would we allow somebody in the United States to produce autos and ship them to Canada? Remember, we're a big market in our own right. We're the biggest buyer of U.S. goods by a wide margin.
bigger than most countries in the European Union put together. So we do have bargaining power. We do have leverage here. Just before we let you go... I asked you about the words that Mark Carney used in this meeting that we've heard from him today. What about the words Donald Trump was using to talk about and flatter our prime minister? Was that a tactic?
Yeah, but I think it was probably somewhat genuine, and I thought that was one of the really good news items out of the meeting, the fact that the President of the United States was respectful to our leader. You know, There's something strange when we have to say respecting another leader is a highlight. It should not be. But in the case that we're dealing with at the present time, I would say that would be one of the highlights of the day.
Frank McKenna, I appreciate this. Thank you. And thank you. Frank McKenna is the former Canadian ambassador to the U.S. He's in Toronto. It's an extremely secretive process, which the world will be watching closely. Tomorrow, dozens of Catholic cardinals will shut themselves inside the Sistine Chapel to begin the process of choosing a successor to Pope Francis.
And as media and conclave watchers descend upon the Vatican, advocates are also showing up with a message. Survivors of sexual abuse by clergy are in Rome right now, urging the cardinals to put the issue at the forefront of their decision-making. Newfoundlander Gemma Hickey is among them. They're the board president of the International Coalition Ending Clergy Abuse, and we reached them in Rome.
Gemma, you traveled to Rome with an ultimatum, a call for a moral reformation. What kind of response have you received so far? Well, you know, right now we're just targeting bishops and cardinals, trying to get the message out. And it's an uphill battle, you know.
Now, the organization I represent, Ending Clergy Abuse, has been working with theologians from the Pontifical Gregorian University to revise canon law. We launched those revisions last fall and we're hoping to present them to the Pope, but he passed away. So we're basically having to start over. So, you know, honestly, our message here is, Stop prioritizing predators over protecting children.
And so that's why we're here. And that's the message we're delivering. And obviously, I mean, I can only imagine you and those you work with would not be there, would not travel to Rome if you didn't think there was a possibility for change. Clearly that hope and that work is still there. But, you know, deep down do you think it will happen? You know, I'm cautiously optimistic. I think that whoever they choose as Pope will determine the tone going forward.
We can only be here and try to get our message across and hope for the best and take it from there once the Pope is elected. You know, Pope Francis, he made efforts But what he did was not they're not being implemented. So that's the issue. I mean, only a pope can change canon law. And you have a list
As part of the ultimatum, and in the news release you put out, what survivors are demanding now. There are five things on this list, but at the very top, a universal one-strike and your outlaw, and the second, mandatory reporting to civil. Tell us why those two are at the very top of your list. Well, we want the church to
implement a Missouri tolerance policy. In 2002, the US bishops called on the Pope to make that change for them in canon law, and he did. It's basically a one-strike-and-you're-out policy, so if you abuse a minor... you are automatically removed. And we want that applied globally. And so we're getting some pushback from conservative bishops, as an example, African bishops. We can look at the age of consent as 18, but there's some pushback there about girls who are 14 who are able to marry.
These are the types of things that we're getting from people, that we're not being culturally sensitive. We are being culturally sensitive because we're hearing from people on the ground. So, you know, it's really important to have this policy applied globally. That's what we're working on. So we do have some representation here from survivors from other parts of the world that just flew in a survivor last night from Peru.
But their stories are so heart-wrenching. It's just that we really need to keep the pressure up. So last week we sent an open letter to the College of Cardinals, and we've been working with other survivor groups as well to hold events here on the ground. That survivor from Peru, you know, how are they feeling being in Rome? Obviously many people are there for the conclave or there for the funeral. They all come for different reasons, but how are they feeling?
You know, just skeptical, vulnerable, angry, triggered, all those things come up. I mean, there's so much religiosity around here everywhere you look. It's here, you can't really escape it. But it's important for him to be here and we're supporting him and finding ways for survivors like him to be able to speak out and have a platform. and by holding protests and having meetings with church officials.
You know, we're just doing what we can, really, to keep the pressure on and to call the church to task and to do the right thing. And, you know, they haven't been doing that, you know, They haven't been doing that. They haven't shown that they can police themselves, and that's why it's important to have investigative bodies that are independent of the church so that they can be held to account.
And if the kind of change and reformation that you and others are pushing for does not come and does not come soon, obviously that has an impact on survivors, but more broadly. What's at stake if that change doesn't come? Well, so many things are at stake, really, our lives. You know, how many have we lost to suicide, to addiction as a result of trying to escape the pain of the past?
You know, I've sat with men who went to Mount Cashel and was notorious in St. John's for abuse by Christian brothers. and they're in their 80s now, and many of them still haven't received compensation or in the process. But how many years? How many years do we have to endure that time gets taken from us? survivors that serve a life sentence. Many of the people that abuse us, they don't see any jail time.
They get to retire and move on with the rest of their lives, and we live in a prison of memory, and the wound keeps getting opened time and time again. because of the mismanagement of this crisis. It's a global crisis and this church needs to really do something different about this because lives are at stake and you know the sad thing about this is that this whole like a lot of the abuse could have been prevented had they just handled it appropriately in the beginning
You know, don't move people around that are a threat. They have the information there. You know, just do something different. Gemma, I appreciate your time as always. Please take care of yourself and thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you so much. We reached Gemma Hickey in Rome. The NHL playoffs are a tense and tumultuous time for hockey fans of all stripes.
The highs are thrilling, but the lows are exhausting and punishing, and the constant toggling between high and low can cause something akin to the bends. But as teams head into round two of this year's Stanley Cup showdown, one hockey lover has just the thing. Do you cheer for a high character team that refuses to play with a lead? Can your nervous system not tell the difference between being on the penalty kill and being attacked by a bear?
Does the phrase goalie interference send you spiraling to a PTSD flashback? If any of these resonate with you, you might need an emotional support playoff chicken made for the best fans in the world by a fellow tortured soul. Ashley Sinclair is a TikToker, an Edmonton Oilers fan, and a self-proclaimed tortured soul who is crocheting emotional support chickens.
for her fellow fans, and whose inbox has been blowing up ahead of tonight's first round two game against the Las Vegas Golden Knights. We reached her in Sherwood Park, Alberta. Ashley, are you going to be clutching your very own emotional support chicken when the Oilers take to the ice tonight?
I'm so lucky I'm now making them en masse because I think I'm going to eat all the emotional support chickens I can get. Just an entire couch full of them, your lap covered in them. Yeah, me and 40 chickens just watching the game. Why chickens? This is a pattern that was actually done by an Ontario designer a couple years ago who came out and just took the crochet community by storm, Oak and Marlowe, based out of Ontario.
And, yeah, so the chicken pattern was popular. There are emotional support chickens. And when I thought of emotional support and where I needed it in my life, my hockey team definitely requires that. Yeah, the tortured soul. I mean, I really heard it in your TikTok video. You are feeling this, and I think a lot of people are feeling it with you. But what do your chickens look like?
so they're about palm size and like have a nice like that crochet gives it a nice tactile finish and they're weighted with 97 grams of poly pellet That, of course, representative of number 97 on the Edmonton Oilers, Connor McDavid. And that was just kind of my little extra tie-in for my emotional support chicken, having that extra connection to the team that I'm cheering for. many layers of meaning. You think that's crazy? I don't think it's crazy. One of the empty chicken shells weigh 29 grams.
which, of course, is Leon Dreisaitl's number. Of course. Yeah, they're just a great little weight to have beside you. You can toss them around or throw them in the air. Yeah. Poor chicken's being tossed in a rage across the room. So I want to unpack some of what you said in that TikTok video. When you say, do you cheer for a high character team that refuses to play with a lead? Tell us more about what you mean.
I mean, okay, so I first really fell in love with this team in their playoff run in 2006. And you look at how that series started. They made it into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. We were matched up against the president's trophy winner in round one. Nobody thought we were going to do anything.
And then after, like, two double overtime wins, we go and close the series in six. And if that wasn't an introduction to exactly how this team seems to play across generations of players, like, That's it, because we fast forward now. Last season, we came back from an impossible 3-0 series deficit to make it to Game 7 in the Stanley Cup Final. We start off against LA, down 2 in the series, and then close out in 6 again. It's just... They seem to...
always find a way to come back from the impossible. And even last year in our regular season, before that deep playoff run, like, Connor McDavid said, like, this team came back from the dead and then made this all the way to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. And I think as an Oilers fan now, after 20 years of watching them do this, it doesn't necessarily get easier. But you now have this kind of context of like, okay, this is what they do.
So you're a little bit used to it now, but you still need emotional support, as do other fans, as we've been saying. How are they looking to you this time around? I mean, of course, I want them to go all the way. they have playoff experience now that they haven't had before and that's something that was missing from the team. We've been perennial contenders over the last seven years and
Like, of course, I believe that this is it, this is our year, and I can't wait to see what they're going to do over the next series. How long does it take for you to crochet one of these chickens? So start to, like, finish packed and ready for pickup is 40 minutes. Oh, so that's a good little project. I can attest to the very small scale. I haven't actually made anything real, but crocheting can be The act of crocheting can be soothing and calm you down, let alone holding the finished product.
What kind of response have you received? Thank you. I posted that TikTok video on April 30th. So that was like last. Tuesday. We've received over 100 orders and have confirmed orders for over 300 chickens. So is it relaxing at this point or just another job? It's honestly, it's so exciting. And it's just, this is now something that I've recruited for other crocheters who are helping me create these like chicken shells and then I'm finishing them all.
It's brought in a ton of excitement to see a handmade item kind of take spotlight during the playoffs like this and It's just, like, it's so fun. Like, this is essentially my dream job. So even if it gets crazy, like, who does this? Has the team reached out? Uh, no. Not yet. They're busy right now. They've got a lot to focus on, so I'm happy to just be on the sidelines and ride this wave, yeah. If you suddenly see them all clutching these on the bench. I would die.
Yeah, like if that's something the team decides they need, I can absolutely accommodate that. But yeah, it's been crazy. And so, I mean, whatever happens, in this playoff run. Do you feel like this is a win for you? I'm going to remember this time in my life forever. It's been unreal that this is happening and Yeah, if everything disappears tomorrow, which we still have a whole series, but it would be like it's been insane. I'm so grateful to have been able to do any of this.
And the response has been incredible, but that doesn't surprise me from the fans of the Edmonton Oilers. I'm really glad we could speak, Ashley. Thank you. Me too, Neil. Thank you for reaching out. Ashley Sinclair is an Edmonton Oilers fan who is crocheting emotional support chickens for her fellow fans. We reached her in Sherwood Park, Alberta.
If we lived underwater, we would have to change our lifestyles a bit. For one thing, we'd need to develop gills, or else we would only live as long as we could hold our breath, which would make it hard to form lasting friendships or play Monopoly. And we'd eat a lot less bread. If you've eaten a sandwich underwater, you know what I mean. And we would also need a whole new method of communication. If I tried to tell you about a cool fish I'd seen, it would not go great.
Obviously, we'd have to find some particular way to communicate using our unique traits, like the cuttlefish has. You know the cuttlefish. It's a squid-like critter with eight arms, two tentacles, W-shaped eyes, three hearts, a siphon, an ink sac, and an ability to change color. They're a lot. But what they mostly are is arms. So it's not that surprising to learn that, according to a new study, they use those arms to communicate. The scientists focused on four particular gestures.
in which the cuttlefish extends two arms upward while twirling its other arms together. Side, in which it curls all its arms off to one side or the other. Roll, in which it tucks all its arms under itself. And crown, in which it presses the tips of some arms against the tips of some other arm.
It's clear that all these distinct gestures mean something, although it's not clear what. What's also amazing is that those arm waves make waves in the water, which could mean that the cuttlefish can feel each other's gestures as well. So there's a lot still to learn about what all this behavior means, but it really seems like coddlefish have underwater chit-chat down. And when they want each other to do something, it seems like they just twist their own arms.
We're going to take a short break now. When we return, Canada voted Liberal. Alberta voted Conservative. And now, once again, a small group of Albertans are talking about disconnecting their province from Canada. We'll hear from an activist hoping... to make that happen, and he says he is confident the Premier of Alberta won't stand in the way of Alberta, the country.
And Danny and the Jets. Real Winnipeg Jets superfans don't just walk the walk. They drive the drive. Dan Nolan takes us for a ride in his Jetsmobile. Stay tuned. I'm Neil Kirksell. And I'm Chris Howden. Starting a daily news habit is way easier than I thought it would be. I just listen to World Report every morning. It's only 10 minutes long, and somehow it tells me everything I need to know.
tariffs, war in Ukraine, what's happening in Gaza, it's all there. And there are other stories I care about, like the climate crisis or the cost of living. I get up to speed, and then I get on with my day. If you're also looking for a fast and easy way to stay informed, I recommend World Report from CBC News. Follow wherever you get your podcasts. The situation for civilians in Gaza is already incredibly desperate and dangerous, and now it appears to be on the brink of becoming even worse.
Yesterday, the Israeli government announced plans for an expanded ground offensive in the territory and a proposal for the militarization of aid distribution. In the meantime, Israel's months-long blockade on food, medicine, and all other essentials to the territory persists. Gaza's health ministry says some 60,000 children are now showing signs of malnutrition. Steve Cutts is the interim CEO of the UK-based charity Medical Aid for Palestinians. We reached him in Lewis, England.
Steve, what are you hearing from your colleagues on the ground in Gaza about Netanyahu's announcement and these plans? Well, I think the first thing to say is that ever since the ceasefire, you know, was broken by Israel back in March. People on the ground have been living more and more desperate lives with the aid and the food embargo in place and the lack of fuel going in. So people are getting fairly desperate and there's starvation on the ground.
And this isn't some accident of a drought or whatever. This is starvation used as a weapon of war. So I think these announcements add massively to the fear and the concerns of people. It was desperate when they'd gone through the months of hope of the ceasefire to have that withdrawn and now they're facing the threat of being uprooted yet again. and moved into ever smaller areas which sounds very much like ethnic cleansing so I think people are unbelievably white following those comments.
There have been other comments as well, shocking statements, and we've heard shocking statements before, but there have been more now from the far-right finance minister in Israel saying that the Gaza Strip should essentially be destroyed in its entirety and that people who live there... leave in great numbers to third countries. We've heard some international response, but what kind of action do you think will realistically come? from the international community to what we are hearing.
So far, I mean, the first thing to say is that given the situation they've been forced to live under and the action that's now planned against them, I'm not sure that anybody could claim that people will leave Gaza voluntarily. They're being coerced to leave. With respect to the international community, of course, thus far, we in MAP have been unbelievably disappointed by the reaction of our own government and a number of other governments who are not.
putting maximum pressure on Netanyahu to stop this carnage. There must come a point I think when governments Even the most blinkered governments should be seeing what is happening here and should now be condemning it in the strongest possible terms. We think that it's vital that the international community... demands and immediate and permanent ceasefire.
We think it's right that all arms sales should be stopped to Israel and there should be full accountability for what's happened under international humanitarian law and pressure put on Israel to lift this siege immediately. Netanyahu has also proposed this idea of militarization of aid distribution in Gaza, suggesting that the current aid delivery system could be replaced with a system where all the deliveries go through hubs that are controlled by private security contractors and the IDF.
What would that mean for organizations such as yours? Would that actually help anything? No. No, that wouldn't help anything. This is kind of, again, further weaponization and militarization of... All right. They will be seeking to effectively use survival rations to destroy resistance. We don't know the full details of this, but we, the United Nations, all other NGOs are rejecting this. Aid should be...
impartial, it should be given freely, it should flow smoothly. And this flies in the face of all of this. The U.S. president, as you know, is set to visit the region next week. Are you hopeful at all that this president, this administration, might say something, pull some levers? I mean we always have to hope because the United States of course is the country that has the most influence and can actually make Israel do things and stop doing things.
So I hope while he's in the regions he receives very strong representations from other Arab states to really point out that this is simply unacceptable thus far. I think it's been very disappointing that the first days when President Trump came into power, the ceasefire was put in place, which was, of course, a great
triumph for him in many ways. That, of course, has been unilaterally ripped up by Israel. So I would certainly hope, and if I saw President Trump, I would urge him to actually say, you know, your triumph in coming into office is effectively ripped up by this. But of course, He needs to move himself off his own positions because he's been talking about Gaza.
disgusting idea when people are lying dead at more than 51,000 now are lying dead that Gaza will be turned into the next Riviera and almost seen as a real estate deal. I think he needs to be moved away from that position as well. And I'm just hoping that when he does visit the region, that there are countries who do have influence with him and with the United States who put maximum pressure on him to...
to take a different line than he's taking currently. And because the line he's taking in terms of aid, he was repeating claims That aid that did make it into Gaza was being taken by Hamas. Is that something your organization has actually had to contend with? No, I mean, I have to say we've been, we're very careful and we work closely, we actually work closely with Kogat, the Israeli, you know, the Israeli.
Kogat to ensure that our aid does not ever get diverted to Hamas. Of course, nothing's been allowed in since early March, but when it was being allowed in, it really wasn't being diverted at once. can't help thinking that this is an excuse to take more control and to move forward with the other aims that Israel has for Gaza.
Sean Carroll, the CEO of the American Near East Refugee Aid Organization, is someone you and others have recently co-signed an open letter with calling for unfettered humanitarian access to Gaza. He wrote a piece, an op-ed. In the New York Times today, he writes in part, quote, this is the moment of moral reckoning in Gaza and asks, will the world be complicit in Gaza's collapse or part of its recovery? Unquote. What do you imagine is going to happen?
I think that in years to come, many people will look back with shame at the fact they did not speak up and they turned a blind eye and they went along with the dehumanisation of Palestinians.
and many Western countries are complicit. They're complicit. They may say we want to have a permanent ceasefire, but they continue to arm the state that is doing the killing so I think in years to come there will be shame I think shared amongst many people for what they've done and I pray now that they're seeing enough that they'll actually start to properly condemn, properly put maximum pressure on Israel to change its policies. Steve, I thank you for your time. Thank you very much.
Steve Cutts is the interim CEO of the UK-based charity Medical Aid for Palestinians. We reached him in Lewis, England. Danielle Smith says she doesn't support her province separating from Canada, but she says the large and growing number of Albertans who have lost hope in the province's future as a part of Canada shouldn't be vilified.
The Premier's comments come amid renewed conversations about Alberta sovereignty in the aftermath of liberal Mark Carney's electoral win. They also follow a move by the Premier to lower the threshold for citizens to trigger a referendum in the province
although that change hasn't passed yet. The topic of Alberta's relationship with Ottawa was front and center at the Premier's press conference this afternoon. Here's how she responded when asked if she'd honor a referendum that ended in favor of Alberta separating from Canada. There's a lot of ifs in that. I think if an election were held today, it would get about 30% support.
So that's why I want to make sure that those numbers do not get higher and those numbers end up going lower because we're successful in negotiating a new arrangement with Canada. That's my marching orders. I've heard pretty overwhelmingly from my caucus, from the people who have... contacted my office from the people I've consulted with is that they want me to give it a try. We tried for two and a half years.
with the prime minister that was in place when I got elected. And I'm going to try. I think that's the only thing that I can do and hope that we have a different approach. I think we've already seen evidence that we have a prime minister that's willing to change gears. Premier Daniel Smith taking questions from reporters today.
Dennis Modry is a co-founder and chair of the Alberta Prosperity Society, which is part of an effort to collect the names and contact info of Albertans who support a referendum on sovereignty. He's also been an informal advisor to the Premier. We reached him in Edmonton. Dennis, how many people have signed on to your website to say they support a referendum since last week's election? We're at over 220,000. And how many were there before the vote? About 70,000.
I think it tells you that a lot of people in Alberta and I would say elsewhere in Western Canada are very unhappy with the direction that the country has taken in the last decade or so. and are very upset with the very strong perception that We are nothing more than a colony to serve the interests of Eastern Canada. We heard the Premier there say there are a lot of ifs, and there certainly are. If this were to go ahead, what's the exact question you'd like a referendum to ask?
That question has been posed already. It was drafted by two constitutional lawyers, and I weighed in on it as well. But the question is this. Do you agree that the province of Alberta shall become a sovereign country and cease to be a province of Canada? Answer, yes or no. For the petition, and also for the referendum, would have to be approved by Elections Alberta. So we haven't submitted it to Elections Alberta yet. But according to the Citizens Initiative Act, if they need
some change or tweak to it, then Elections Alberta will work with the petitioner to make any improvements that may be required. But the question itself, seems extremely straightforward and we've run it through our very large operational team and they all seem to like it. Is that your hope and your dream that Alberta would separate from Canada? I don't use the term separate at all. Separate sort of implies that the land of Alberta is going to be moved somewhere else.
What we're really talking about is sovereignty. Sovereignty for the individual and sovereignty for the province, which really means self-control, controlling one's future, controlling one's ability to purchase the goods and services that they want, to not be oppressed by values that don't align with the values here, to get out from under the oppression of
of censorship and a number of other things. And so when we talk about Alberta sovereignty, we don't talk about separation. We're talking about Alberta becoming a sovereign nation. So you wanted Alberta to be the country of Alberta, not a province of Canada. That is correct. The majority of Albertans don't appear to agree with you at this stage. We know Premier Smith, we heard just from her there,
that she sounds hopeful about what could happen with this new government, with Prime Minister Carney. She said she's putting together a negotiating team. pushing for an Alberta accord, and we're just so a week into this new government. So why not put this issue away for now when there isn't that support there? Let's put it this way. What we know is what we hear in the polls, for one thing. As you saw in the United States with the federal election, the polls were completely wrong.
We still live in an era of cancel culture and many people are unwilling to answer a poll accurately or at all even. And we know that the polls that were conducted were conducted before the most recent federal election as a proxy, if you will, for Alberta sovereignty. We can go back to 2021 and look at the result of the referendum to end equalization. 62% of Albertans voted to end equalization.
Well, I don't have an exact answer for you. You could ask the question, how many of those people who wanted to end equalization would vote in favor of Alberta sovereignty, which also gets Albertans out from under federal taxes. GST, carbon tax, fuel tax, excise taxes, and the oppressive regulations that are suffocating Alberta and others in Western Canada. Premier Smith has also said that she does not support.
Alberta separating from Canada, though she wouldn't stand in the way of a referendum like this, and she said she supports democracy. But there are other prominent conservatives. Former Alberta Premier Jason Kenney is one of them. saying that this is futile ranting, that it's dominating the debate, distracting from real issues and distorting Alberta's real identity as a proud, confident, patriotic. How do you respond to those critics?
The electors made it known to Jason Kenney what they thought of his leadership. That's number one. Number two, the Premier herself has said on more than one occasion, if certain things do not happen, then that will be a threat to national unity. There are different views, there are different perspectives on this. We as an educational society,
simply are educating the public on the rationale and the merits of Alberta sovereignty. And our objective is to empower the provincial government to restructure Alberta's relationship with Canada. The Premier knows that. The Premier, you know, her rhetoric, of course, is she's somewhat controlled by her caucus, which are Canada first, Alberta second, many of them. And we are in a position. with respect to upcoming elections, provincial elections, to ensure that MLAs
that are selected to represent their constituency associations are Alberta first, Canada second. Are you saying that Premier Smith actually supports Alberta separating or becoming its own country but is just not saying it out loud? What I'm saying is that I know that she will respect the result of the referendum. Apart from that, I can't speak on behalf of her.
I certainly can speak to what she has already stated, that she will respect the result of the referendum. So the result of the referendum, should it be successful, and I believe it will be. Under those circumstances, she will be in a position to negotiate from a position of strength. But what if it fails, Dennis? Then do you put this issue away once and for all? It's not going to fail.
I'm not going to speculate on something that I don't believe is going to happen. It will be successful. I'm glad to have you on the show, Dennis. Thank you for your time. You're welcome. Dennis Modry is a co-founder and chair of the Alberta Prosperity Society. He's in Edmonton. As you heard earlier in the show, and maybe all day every day for the past few weeks if you know or are a hockey fan,
The NHL playoffs are a stressful time for fans across the country. We heard from Ashley Sinclair, a TikToker and Edmonton Oilers fan who's crocheting emotional support chickens for her fellow fans. And like Ms. Sinclair, Dan Nolan of Winnipeg is trying to create some good playoff vibes.
When you see Mr. Nolan, there are some clues as to who he's rooting for in round two. The blue Winnipeg Jets helmet, blazer, tie, and jersey suggest It's the Winnipeg Jets, and so does what he calls the Jetsmobile. The old blue sedan is completely Jetsified. Jets hubcaps, flags supported by hockey sticks, a goalie mask, a fighter plane, mini sticks on the hood, and a replica Stanley Cup affixed to the roof.
Dan Nolan spoke with the CBC about his Jetsmobile today, ahead of tomorrow's game against the Dallas Stars. It's a 71 Chevy Vega wagon. It's a Winnipeg car. I've had it for 12 years.
Keep having fun with it. It's just one of my hot rods that I drive around with. And just tell me a little bit about some of the reactions that you get from people while you're driving this thing around. You must love just looking through people's windows and seeing how they're staring at your car. Oh, it's like crazy. It's amazing. I get smiles. Everywhere you look, it's smiles. It's such a blast. Well, it's fun. It's fun. It's fun. Grandkids love it. The little kids love it. It's just
It's fun. It's just so much fun. You know, the kids come up, they want pictures. I don't worry about people touching it. When I park at downtown, even the police are just parked in a taxi stand. I don't pay for parking. I just leave it there and walk away from it. And at one point, people were wondering, you know, is it...
gonna get damaged, and I thought, well, I gotta have faith in people. Here we go. He's gonna start this bad boy up here. Oh, yeah. This is that thing for F. I hope everybody ain't mad for waking them up in the morning. Winnipeg Jets superfan Dan Nolan speaking with the CBC's Corey Funk. If anyone in Canada was hoping that Prime Minister Mark Carney would come home from the White House with a quick fix, that hope has been death.
Listen to this reporter's exchange with President Donald Trump. Is there anything he can say to you in the course of your meetings with him today that would get you to lift tariffs on Canada? No. Why not? Yes, though it is. So there will be no immediate relief for Canadian businesses and workers feeling the squeeze from tariffs
But the trip to Washington may have been a first step to resetting the relationship, with many more challenges ahead for Mark Carney. John Manley is the former Liberal Deputy Prime Minister. We reached him in Ottawa. John Manley, Prime Minister Carney, as you know, was elected after telling Canadians he is the best person to negotiate with Donald Trump. Did he show that to you today?
Well, I think he did what he had to do. I don't think this meeting that we all witnessed on television can be considered a negotiation. It was a necessary first meeting, which if I remarked Carney, I would have dreaded it. On the other hand, you had to have it so that all the following meetings could occur. And as for that question, I mean, what an obvious answer. What else was he going to say? He is a negotiator.
Let me ask you, if any part of you, you said you would have been dreading it if you were Mark Carney, were you dreading it as you heard about the acceptance of this invitation that they were going to meet in person, given what has happened with other world leaders? that Oval Office setting I mean were you nervous watching it? I was totally nervous. There was a lot of downsides.
for Carney and having this meeting. I thought he, Mark, was very controlled, very careful. He resisted what had to be a desperate urge to correct and thought-checked the president. He didn't do any of that. He didn't provoke him. He didn't trigger his bully impulses. But he did what he had to do, which was to make as very clear the headline statement that Canada is not for sale.
Given the urgency and the importance of the issues, what is at stake for Canadians in particular? Yes, he's a new prime minister, just elected last week. But how much patience do you think Canadians have or should have? getting all of this sorted out. Well, I think Canadians know from the outset that the outcome of this with Donald Trump is not foreseen or foreseeable. And that whereas Mark Carney presented himself as the better candidate.
to deal with Donald Trump face to face. He did it really on the basis of comparing resumes rather than on the promise of any particular outcome. No candidate could have promised an outcome. So I think the real test for me is what the pain threshold of Canadians is going to be if in fact we can't get to an outcome. Are they prepared to see us with a slowing economy as we make the necessary changes to redirect our economic policies which we've had in place?
for 35 years to a different set of priorities. The firm but friendly and diplomatic approach, as you and others have said, appears to have worked in Canada's favour today. But there might be those who are watching who... or worried about being too friendly in terms of, you know, issues, the 51st state rhetoric and tariffs, of course, that people find insulting but also frightening. How do you think that that might play with Canadians?
Well first of all I'm in the category of finding it insulting as well as frightening and I think that Donald Trump While you may not want to take him literally, it should be taken seriously. He's repeated this threat multiple times. Just in the last 24 hours, he refused to flatly rule out the use of military force to annex Canada. This is, to me, this is deeply unsettling. This is out of my experience and it's out of Canada's experience in several generations, lifetimes.
So I think everyone should be worried and unsettled. But I think that the alternative of going in as Prime Minister of Canada with all guns blazing and having a Zelensky moment, I don't think that would put us in any better situation. So I think that we've gotten the necessary out of the way. We've prepared the ground to
fight another day, but we're going to have to be prepared. And Prime Minister Carney's going to have to make good on his promise to fix what we can control. There's a lot in the Canadian economy that has been lethargic. We've got continuing low productivity rates. We've got... We've been lagging in international investment, and now we need a new investment thesis for Canada. Man, he's got a full agenda, even if you don't say United States in a sentence.
Mark Carney, Prime Minister Carney, is set to speak with the premiers on a call tomorrow. Keeping a united front is key always, especially now. But also there's the Alberta factor and Premier Danielle Smith, you know, bringing up the idea of a referendum on sovereignty. She doesn't want Alberta to separate, she says, but she's made these moves to make a referendum.
easier or even likelier at this stage. So what will the Prime Minister need to do to keep everyone on the same page as much as possible? Well, I think he's going to need to make a renewed commitment to keep the federal government in the federal lane. One of the biggest complaints... that Alberta and some other provinces have made is a federal tendency to interfere in areas of provincial jurisdiction.
And in that context, largely Quebec has been treated, I'd have to say, with kid gloves, and Alberta has not. And they are, I think, thoroughly saying that they deserve to be treated. just as much respect on matters of their economy as Quebec has been on matters of their culture or language.
So I think he's got to do some bridge building. I think it's possible. I think the latest polls show that it's not that big a percentage of Albertans that favor separation from Canada, and it doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense. when you look at their landlocked position. But I think there is some bridge building to do, and I think he's capable of doing it. John Manley, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this. My pleasure, Neal.
John Manley is the former Deputy Prime Minister of Canada. He's in Ottawa. It is a truly phenomenal collection of garnets, pearls, and gold. And on Wednesday in Hong Kong, it's going up for auction. And it's not just wealthy art connoisseurs who are interested. The gems to be auctioned off are called the Piprawa gems. They were buried in a stupa, a sacred Buddhist site in India. And then in 1898, they were excavated by a British landowner.
His family's decision to put the jewels up for sale has sparked a major backlash and an ethical debate among those weighing in is the government of India, which has issued a legal notice in an attempt to stop the office. Naman Ahuja is a professor of Buddhist art. We reached him in New Delhi. Professor, you've seen these artifacts, these jewels in person. What is it like to stand before them? They are extraordinary objects. they are extraordinary things i mean they are
exquisite jewels. Some of them are made of little gold flecks in kind of like imitation coins with sacred symbols on them. Some of them have been carved, precious stones that have been carved into sacred talismanic symbols. There are some pearls which are unusual. They are clusters of three pearls together. There are some which have been carved into little flowers and some like little lotus buds. So they are quite beautiful to behold.
Just to hear that laugh and that smile in your voice and then as you became more serious says a lot just in how you conveyed what it's like to stand before them. When and where did you get that opportunity? I got the opportunity in New York at the Metropolitan Museum, where they were displayed in an exhibition. And previous to that, I had seen them in Singapore, where they had been displayed at the Asian Civilizations Museum.
So to hear now that they're set to be auctioned tomorrow, in fact, what did you think when you learned that was about to happen? Well, it's quite galling to hear that sacred relic. can be commodified. One didn't know that objects that were interred with the original ashes of the Buddha the offerings that pilgrims and people who actually belong to the family of the Buddha had made could be treated in this manner.
Chris Pepe, the great-grandson of William Pepe, who excavated all of these things, wrote a piece for Sotheby's, the auction house, that is set to auction these items, and in that describes their relationship with with these items as a custodianship what do you make of that framing it's quite uh important i think that's a very correct word that they have used it is indeed custodianship one holds them in trust
for other pilgrims, for the devout, and if they wish to now divest themselves of the role of custodians, then they should ask somebody else to take on the mantle of custodianship. the government of India, which bestowed custodianship on them, declines, then it's a different matter. But that hasn't happened. He also writes in this piece about his grandfather trying to tell people what he believes was happening at the time.
He says he gave the gems, the relics, and the reliquaries to the Indian government. The bone relics were gifted to the king of Siam, and all the major pieces of gold and jewelry were donated to the museum in Kolkata. It is the small portion of duplicates that he was allowed to keep. that have been kept in our family. Does the fact that he says these are a small portion of duplicates that they were allowed to keep, does that make any difference to you?
Well, what's a duplicate? Just because there are two pearls that were deposited and you deposited one in the museum, does that make the second pearl any less valuable? I know that in the 19th century there was a sort of attitude to have taxonomies, but I think we've moved far away from that and we regard these things now as being spiritually loaded. religious objects. We mentioned, our listeners heard in the introduction, the Indian government's legal notice
that it issued to Sotheby's and Chris Pepe to try to stop this auction. They say that the sale would, quote, violate Indian and international laws, as well as United Nations conventions, unquote. How much power... does that legal notice have? Is there a chance that the auction could be stopped? well i think it must be i mean what an awful predicament for sotheby's and the family to be and if it is not This is a case of cultural property of the world, not India's property only.
and India has shown that it has served as a custodian of the Buddha's body. for all nations Pepe told BBC News that they tried, well, they've certainly been exhibiting them and you've seen them in museums, but they said they've tried to look at ways to donate
these items to temples and museums, but said, quote, they all presented different problems on closer scrutiny, unquote. And he said he believes an auction seems, quote, the fairest and most transparent way to transfer these relics to Buddhist. Do you think Buddhists will have better access to these objects? I don't know if you can put a price on and sell off the relics from a casket which was inscribed, which Sotheby's itself has stated that
This is the most important archaeological discovery of Buddhism. And this is the nearest you can get to the body of the Buddha. It's rather like asking that can you monetize and for the sake of all Christians put the body of Christ up for sale?
for the sake of all muslims can you put relics of muhammad up for sale or something like that the united nations has taken away clear ruling on such matters unesco has which sees objects of major spiritual significance and human remains and grave goods to be treated differently and not as objects of art. Given all of that, why do you think Sotheby's took this on?
Why is this scene differently than Earth? We have a named entity. There was an inscription. We know that the land from which they came was the royal terrain of the shakya family which is the bloodline of the buddha this is not some nameless stupa's content that are being put up for auction. So in the best case scenario, from where you sit, Professor,
What would happen tomorrow? The ethical and the correct thing would be to have Sotheby's and the Pepe family and others recognize that these are the inalienable heritage of the world. and to cooperate in their dissemination and the transfer of their safe custody to India for the benefit of all Buddhists.
Professor, I very much appreciate your time. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you. Naman Ahuja is a professor of Buddhist art. We reached him in New Delhi. We did contact Sotheby's for this story, but we didn't hear back by airtime. It's the point of the entire enterprise, but because it is, it's extremely hard to stand out at the yearly celebration of fantastical fashion that is the Met Gala.
And this year's event was no exception. I say that from non-personal experience because my invitation was somehow lost in the mail. Again. Still, had I attended, as planned, I would have been up against some heavy hitters. Zendaya was there in an exquisitely tailored all-white suit and floppy hat
Janelle Monae wore a suit under a coat that was printed to look like a suit and magically made a monocle work for her. Andre 3000 carried a garbage bag designed by either Hermes or Efti and wearing a whole piano as a backpack. Because this year's theme was black dandyism, there were various spins on the zoot suit along with spats and gloves and dramatic hats and the occasional walking stick. But among all these haute couture looks, Diana Ross was the haute couture.
It was the first time in 22 years she had attended the event. Apparently, the 81-year-old hadn't been planning to go, but had this outfit in her closet consisting of a sparkling gown, an enormous white feathered hat, and a matching train measuring over five meters long, which took five people to manage, six if you count Ms. Ross. The singer continues to tour and recently told the crowd on a sold-out show in New York City that she plans to retire never.
You've been listening to the As It Happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio 1 after your world tonight. And you can, of course, also listen to our show online at cbc.ca slash AIH or on the CBC Listen app or, of course, wherever. you get your podcasts. I'm Nia Kuxel. And I'm Chris Howden. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca.