SNM263: How to be More Memorable with Vinnie Potestivo

Jonathan Green: How to be more memorable with special guests, Vinny Potestivo on today's episode.

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Announcer: Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you want to make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. then you've come to the right place. Welcome to Serve No Master podcast, where you'll learn how to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep. presented live from Atropical Island in the South Pacific by best selling author, Jonathan Green. Now here's your host.

Jonathan Green: We are part of a generation where everyone wants to be famous or significant even if they haven't done anything yet. And One of my favorite things is when people say, oh, why don't you remember who I am? I say, maybe it's not my fault. Maybe you need to be more memorable. Right? Like, we It's not my fault. I can't remember when I meet a lot of people interview. A lot of guests on my show. I've worked with a lot of people. I've been in this business of 12 years. Maybe you just need to be more memorable. So what do you think about that? Like, we have this scenario where everyone wants to be famous, but everyone can't be famous at the same time.

Vinnie Potestivo: Yeah. Right? But they wanna be famous. I'm hoping. They wanna be famous for that moment. when greatness does happen so that they can maximize on that moment. Is that why they would thrive to wanna be famous prior to actually doing the thing that will probably be etched in permanent memory or certainly allow be the experience of how most of us experience them. By the way, I have to say, you you frame this brilliantly about being memorable. I never thought about that as the pain point. The honest simple answer to this entire conversation is being more shareable. That's all it comes down to is the more I can get you to be easier to share in your story, your content, your contacts. And I can go we'll talk a lot about things that we can do to make you easier to share and be more shareable. But ultimately, that's the trick. It's not more visibility. More visibility doesn't lead to discoverability. Shareability leads to discoverability. That's something that I'd love to talk about, especially for people creating content, whether you're doing it on social natively first or you're running a business and you use social or private media or even wanna leverage both of those into the public sector. By the way, I I love podcasts to broadcast. And if we can go there, towards the end of this and we have time, then we've done a good job of staying on topic. But I get excited about that framing of it. Right? How do I stay more memorable? Shareable. It's gotta be it's all about shareability, relevancy. What are you sharing? How are you part of the conversation? How what are you doing and now that you can think of artists and brands that literally are known for seasons that Macy's own this concept around family and thanksgiving right around the hottest day of shopping, by the way, who else? Amazon Amazon's in on it right now and a lot of other brands now. Right? So now you see these trends. do the things that we as independent creators and independent business owners have capability of owning and facilitating a powerful. It's a powerful time. And especially with this creator economy, it's a powerful time right now to be in conned.

Jonathan Green: Yeah. I think a lot of people right now, they think the answer to every problem is going viral. until it happens. And the thing about virality is easy come, easy go. Right? Like, a day later, people who Trace Viral who watch viral videos, which is not me. I always see viral video, like, 6 years late. Like, I'm the last one to see every trend. And by the time I see it. Right? The person's forgotten. And that's the thing is that people who follow a trend, they're looking at a new one each day. They're the people who pay the least attention. to the things that last. Right? They're the ones who are hardest to convert into a customer or a fan because they're more a fan of, like, viral videos. It reminds me of the 19 nineties ride group. You used to watch America's funniest home videos. Right? You would not choose one of those videos and be a fan of them. Right? It was a fan of the show, the clip show. And so I think that's the danger of virality. I'm a big believer in consistency or finding the right fans as opposed to the masses because at least from my business perspective, it's very hard when someone says, who's your audience? You go everybody. Well, then it's hard to get, like, a good brand deal as opposed to if your audience is only been 40 to 50 who are into trucking. Right. Now you know who to partner with. It's such a difference that we want the broad appeal of fame when often there's more money in being a little bit more narrow because then at least you know what products your audience likes.

Vinnie Potestivo: Well, it's funny as you're saying this. I'm getting to this really strong image of surfing and I'm equating that to how dangerous it is to actually go viral. Right? Like, yeah, it's a much more dangerous sport surfing and trying to get those big waves and being known for surfing than it is to be in a controlled setting. Like, for example, I don't know, an Olympic swimmer in a swimming pool where there's consistency And with multiple multiple systems and consistency comes expertise. And so it's funny to think about these as, like, almost 2 different types of sport. Right? So I'll say, look. I just never maybe because I come from t I I'm lucky that I come from TV and that I got to create well, I'm lucky that I worked at MTV. really to be specific that as a network, we got to create we got to find stars, create content. I was actually part of and seeing it on air as opposed to now where a lot of that production company network platform, there's a lot of separation now And I was lucky 25 years ago when when Adam TV with the boom of a sort of unscripted programming as we were figuring out the formats, the SOPs. Right? I wrote the OPs for talent development for about 30 other international MTV properties. How to take a global brand and tap into local talent? That's you gotta speak their language. for cultural community perspective. And if you're gonna that's dangerous. You know? That's, like, surfing. If you gotta be right at the top, at the front, of the sport at the line all the time as opposed to consistency. Both, by the way, have their merits. So either way you choose God bless you. I know the consistency piece a little better, again, maybe because I did have this, like, creative slash corporate background in casting. So what I actually in in in creating content and getting unscripted shows, like, while and out or putting TJ Lavin in the challenge or casting shows like housewives from New Jersey and Millionaire, but a bunch of shows on bravo and MTV and VH1 and CBS and NBC in that lifestyle genre. programming, I think. And what I'm trying to do now is bringing back all those lessons I learned from the Osborn's and Ashton's and punk's and newlyweds, all the lessons I learned and the power and how we can lean into our own story. I saw it happen with Jessica Simpson and Ashton and Kelly and Jackie and Jackie changed their lives. The choices they make change their lives, but only if it's seen visibility, only if it's seen, and then shareable if it's easy at that point to talk about. So MTV had to start putting those episodes on 50, 60, 70 times in three months. There would be heavy rotations. Cable was known for having being able to see repeat episodes. That's the reason. That's how we're able to substantiate the conversation. And a lot of that conversation, by the way, I'll get heady and then I wanna pull back, but a lot of that conversation When you look at the news cycle from the public sector of content, news, talk shows, then there's this social media sector. I can point out when Jimmy Fallon or any of the jimmies are recording a moment in their talk show on their nationally syndicated talk show that I know is intended to be lifted and put into social media. So I know that they're using Cross lateral both not and not only that, but then the monologue is turned into a podcast Steve Harvey is brilliant at this. He has his questions with Steve Harvey. He has one podcast. He has monologue as another. I mean, the reach is ridiculous when you own that content. I'm not saying you should all try to be news magnets or late night show host or even meet that format. But to be thinking about how to be more shareable, all of those things have one thing in common. They're created in segments. for time. It's gotta be easy. It's gotta be concise, and it's gotta be something that should create the act of creating is getting from one point to the other. Casting is bringing one point in I like the convergence of both worlds.

Jonathan Green: So a lot of people are thinking about what they wanna create rather than what people wanna watch or talk about. And it's often where people get stuck, and I've seen this come from the world of authors when authors like, I will only publish my book through traditional publisher. Like, it's been 10 years. It's not gonna happen. Right? After 10 years, maybe start a YouTube channel. Try a different path because it could work, or they choose a topic that no one wants to hear about. Right? Like, there's certain genres that I can't deal with. Something like I had one client who wrote a horror book. I was like, well, I can't read too scary. I had to pay someone else to read the book and tell me about it. Right? The book was great. The guy was so happy with the result. And I was like, I read the first chapter. I go, no. Too scary. Right? But there's an audience for that. sometimes people and he knew his audience better than me. Like, he knew that genre. I was like, I don't read those books. I can't tell you enough. But oftentimes, we're creating content that and we pay no attention. Sometimes this is the best content, right, where it's like you're so happy you're making it so often when making content that's about a topic or about a structure or it's caught in the past that is, like, And that's why it's boring or that's why it's not memorable is because it's made for the creator rather than the observer. Right? It's like that paradox of, like, when there's an observer, it changes the results. But how can someone and we work with someone, how do you get them to start thinking of the or understanding, well, what does your audience want, or how can it be reactive? because what everyone really wants is to post a tweet that their favorite celebrity responds to. Like, that's the dream, isn't it, is to get a response from someone famous. Like, that's feeling that they want. So how can we So that once Liberty shares it, and then, hopefully, they think -- Yes. -- other people will share it from that moment. By the way, if that happens and by the way, that's a it's a strategy out there. That's cool strategy, by the way, for people who are really looking to get noticed.

Vinnie Potestivo: You better be prepared. When that moment happens, you really better know how you wanna convert that audience. You have a shot. You have shot at new eyeballs. You have instant visibility. If you're not retaining those eyeballs afterwards, it's because you didn't have something that was shareable. Just didn't follow-up. You just didn't have something that was easy enough for your audience. And by the way, the here's something about sharing. I hate saying lead with value. How about this? Lead with lead knowing that someone's ego is out there looking for you to give them something that they can claim their own. This is like a we want to find information. We have this ego piece of us that wants to be the person who says, I've discovered this artist. in the friend group. This is my movie. You know? Or when you're in high school, that's my boyfriend. You know? Like, we have we're the people who brought them into existence and, like, they would be nowhere there's ego involved in discovery. I know that. I leverage that in my celebrity career at platforms where I knew I could say, I think we should cast this person. Not only do I think they're right for the project, but I think they're gonna have a tremendous career, and we're gonna be the network that put them on the map, and will forever be part of that artist's story for the rest of their trajectory. So if you're looking to make a long term and that's where you're looking to make a long term investment. This weird cycle between media, social media, streaming that I would cast Laguna Beach 25 years ago. And now I'm finally getting credit on Netflix on a show that's finally I finally have a show on Netflix that, for some reason, might know why because MTV launched its own platform. But it's cool. That's a weird way for me to say how to get on Netflix. I don't know. Casa show 25 years ago. That's a cultural phenomenon show. goes away. And then because of a podcast, it comes thanks to Steven Kaletti and Kristen Cavillari who had a podcast talking about back to the beach about the behind the scenes of this that that show should be relevant again that now people are like, I feel like it's like when people found out that Ricky Martin was part of Minuto beforehand, you know, they're like, wait. There's There's more of a story. I had no clue. And I think that's what's happening in podcasting now as this world expands. We'll be part of it. We're not gonna get lost in this space as it being created. We're part of this space. that's being created. And another reason why I'm a big fan of anyone whether you wanna be a host and you feel confident in the structure and output and responsibility that it takes to be a host We're gonna be honest as a guest. I have a podcast, but I also love guest podcasting. I recorded my podcast 6 days a year I record a 150 days a year other people's podcast. That's how much more I like being a guest than being a host. And this space allows us to do that. and you don't even need to have a podcast to get out there. So, again, just a big plug on that.

Jonathan Green: So I think what you said was really interesting about getting people invested in the story And a great example of this I've seen is, for example, with Realmed's authors I've worked with in the past, I say, why don't you email everyone read book 1 and let them vote on who wins in book 2, which of the main characters. I remember I saw that work really well when it was, like, team Edward or team, the other one in Twilight. The, like, the Vampire of the werewolf. Right? And once people invested in their team, I feel like that was such a powerful way to get people to watch maybe twice or three times or to buy more merch because they're, like, voting and they feel invested. the more people can play a role in the decision making. Like, I think that's why polls have been so powerful. Like, when you get to vote, I remember when I was young and, like, they were they were, like, the MTV Vijay contest, and people could call in and vote. I don't know if those votes were real tonight. Like, I know some TV shows the votes happen to go anywhere, but when your person wins, right, then you're, like, so invested in that. And then you're like, well, I gotta watch their show because I don't want the person I voted for to get fired. And I think there's this really big you're exactly right. This investment effect that so often because especially small creators, when they get a little bit bigger, they stop paying attention to their audience. or they change or shift, they go, oh, now it's a different thing. And I think that's why there's a phase, like, the 1st phase of success Like, about 5 or 6 years ago, there was a huge explosion in travel blogging and all the and every single one of them as soon as they made enough money to start traveling full time when out of business within 3 months. because they were once they were traveling, they spent all their time doing stuff. It stopped writing and all those blogs died within a few almost at the exact same time. because they weren't ready for the next challenge. They didn't know how to do the job and travel at the same time. Right? But before they were riding in between trips and not now they're traveling full time and it killed the business, And I think the same thing happens to people. They grow to their audience at certain times where you can't reply. Like, I'm always fascinated by people that leave comments on Instagram. There's 500,000 comments. I'm the 500,000 a month. It's mathematically impossible for someone to see your comment. Right? If you read those comments for the rest of your life, you wouldn't get to 5000 a 100,000 so many. But there are people that will just leave this comment, I guess, an eternal hope, but there's even a size. Once you get a certain number of comments a day, you can't reply anymore. Right? It's impossible to reply to everyone. And I think that's one of those points where people are like, well, how do I still take touch with my audience? How do I still connect with them when I can't do the one on one thing anymore. Like, I've reached a point where I can't one on one remember every single person who's emailed me or left a comment. It's just too many, but I try my best. but I create characters in my mind that represent a couple of them that are the most common type of person that messages you. Yeah. But when someone's, like, doing more of what you're talking about. Like, it's a lot of social media, it's a lot of comments. How can they keep from getting distracted, especially when you, like, get your first call from a talent agent, or you get your first, like, Dunkin' Donuts commercial. Right? It's like, I've arrived until you realize commercials have a lifespan. Right? And sometimes, like, commercial never airs. All these things can Right? You don't know or you get your first movie. You're so excited and the movie flops. Like, there's the story is not over. Right? It's each there's always a new challenge. Right? Like, oh, my book comes the best seller. I'll become a millionaire. Nope. Turns out not. Right? There's still more and more challenges. How do you help people to stay grounded or to keep from losing their audience? because I think that's the most dangerous place for a person to be without, like, that initial support team.

Vinnie Potestivo: like, that initial support team. Yeah. I think the answer is probably, it's more who, not how. It's who's around you and who's keeping it takes people, to be really honest. There is not one celebrity I've worked with, over. And I can even think of, for 25 years, the people I've worked with, that they're core most of the 1% super successful people that I've worked with probably have retained, if not more than 50% of their original team, if something kinda catastrophic didn't happen or some weird family construct thing it happened in the late nineties, early two thousands, momagers, tatagers. But I think that it's about the who, not how, I think, that it when you know how to execute your brand, it doesn't matter what platform, what client is coming. Those are tools. Those are just ways to execute the brand when you know how you want to be able to execute the per the personal brand too, meaning how you can and can't show up. I think you have a lot more control over now. your time the time and date that you get discovered versus 20 years ago, where it was left to whim, it was left to as you said, the wanna be a VJ or a guy like me tapping you on the shoulder at some concert saying, hey. You got a great look. You know, you should come to the studio, and I'll give you I'll give you an opportunity. It was always my job to give people opportunity, but just to be clear, I was paid. That was my job casting and talent development. Like, their producers aren't paid to do that, so they don't. Agents aren't paid to do that. Agents aren't paid to discover talent and develop new ROI. They're paid to bring in a bottom dollar for the agency. based on headcount. So there's especially nowadays, if you're looking to grow at your brand, and I'm not saying all agencies are the same. But if you're looking at the top 5 the top 15, and you're a brand new and you're a brand new talent entrant to the market with 0 ROI, 0 existing collateral for them to step into. You're basically giving them something to do when they don't need it. They already have existing talent brands that they have to appease where they're gonna get kicked out. in this market of consumption all the way corporate consumption and content consumption all the way up. I strategically would be creating my own content. I think that the content we're creating now is gonna be more valuable in the years to come than even so much so that I don't I when people get on podcasts to talk about specific products or specific books. I think it's cool that we have the opportunity for there to be a quick reach and a massive reach right now, but I don't think people are fully understanding how long, how relevant audio content can be. Like, I come from TV. My stuff was 3, 4, standard definition. Like, people still talk about punked and Osbourne's, maybe newlyweds because Jeff as a billionaire now. You know what I mean? There's some talk points about that, but it's mostly shared in the stories of these people's success, I think, that people know those shows. So that and in in this world where content matters where I think if you're in video podcasting and you're looking past the year 2023, you have to be shooting a 4 k. And it's not because we should be. It's because there's going to be a point in 2024,

Jonathan Green: Oh, I I'm always in favor of great shit like that. Mhmm. What you said was very interesting because some people are interested in the purity of art. Right? like, the mindset of the starving artist or I make a specific type of art, and I don't wanna commercialize it. And, obviously, for every musician and band, there's a point where you go, well, I don't wanna put my music in that commercial, that political ad. But for a lot of people, their mindset is I want the purity of the art. But you mentioned trying to win awards, which is very interesting to me because For a lot of people, they're like, oh, I don't wanna win an award because it's about the period of the art. And I come to the world of book publishing for almost every book award is rigged. it's or the voting pool is so small. For the biggest awards in books, it's 3000 people vote. And the way you vote is if you have a ticket to one of the conferences. It's like, wait. This award is by who? Like,

Vinnie Potestivo: who? What is this? -- economic barrier, It's like,

Jonathan Green: it's like a $20 ticket. It's not even an expensive conference. It's, or 3000 people are voting on what's the best book of the year, but exactly that. And you're like, wait. I thought this was, like, prestigious. I thought this was, like, the best authors get together and have a meeting at a summit. And I've also noticed I do I run into a lot of authors that have won awards I've never heard of. And there's, like, there's something I once talked about with one of my friends. They said we should just start a writer's union and just give out awards. Right? And then that could just be our thing. It's like everyone wants to be on awards. So it's like the people that invent Hall of Fame. Uh-huh. Right? Like, the tabs Arts. It's just someone goes, this is the radio hall of fame in their house, and then they give people enough awards. They start getting. Then they could get to a bigger building. But how how should someone approach the idea of awards? because this is no one's ever talked about this before. This is a very new topic to me. It's very interesting. How should someone think about getting an award? And is there levered rewards? And I've also, I'm very interested in this because every podcast I've ever met has won some podcasting award that I've never heard of so many award winning podcasts. And I'm like, this seems very strange because it's like, how do you separate in? Doesn't really make a difference if it's an award no one's ever heard.

Vinnie Potestivo: Yeah. Right? great question, by the way. And just because I won an Emmy award doesn't mean everyone in the world knows what an Emmy award even is, by the way. I was strategic. I'll have you know. I won I sat back. I was in this room 2 years ago, and I said, I've been in TV 25 years. I've created killer shows, like, my talent and my legacy is in, like, the brilliant people that I've gotten to work with and continue to get to work with, by the way. So I didn't have an Emmy. Everyone else around me had an Emmy. I didn't qualify. I hadn't worked on a project as an executive producer on a national or local level qualified me for it. And I realized in documentaries I could stand out, and I knew that I could stand out if I were to target a local market. Then I became sensitive about who was I gonna win the award with. because when you win an award, by the way, your name is grouped together with like minded people. So I took that as a really I was really conscious, first and foremost, who? Not how. Right? First, I'm like, who am I gonna and that's so weird. I'd be like, okay. How do I win an award? Well, first, what does the stage look like when I get up here and I say, Thank you. Yeah. In my dream world, I would have had Mandy Moore on Sage with me, and I'll give that story later. But it ended up being Kevin Harrington, Jeff Hoffman, the original CEO of Priceline, Brandon T Adams, and we wanted for a project called Red Flags, A and E has a show intervention where people you know, some there's a crisis, there's an intervention, and they go into rehab, and then happily ever after. That's where the episode ends. our documentary started after she came out of rehab, and it was the red flags that, you know, we, as the people who support people coming out of rehab or they themselves might wanna share and what are the red flags that you know we should be aware of and be mindful. We know the twelve steps, but what are the flags that we could really how do we use those steps in comparison? What should we be looking out for? And it's such a meaningful, by the way, project at something I can closely relate to growing up as a teen, and I had parents who made decisions for us as children that allowed me to die through trauma to get some superpowers that ended up being how to take sensitive topics and not to say bring humility to them or to even water them down, but to make them conversational, to get it shareable. How do I get a conversation, like, post rehab? How do I by the way, for me, the answer is create a documentary where where we could talk about it at dinner time, where we can say, hey, or we can talk about it when I'm passing by. And I just wanna be as a resource. Oh, you're going through something. I saw this documentary. You might wanna I wanted to be a resource there so that I can share that story. And now, hopefully, fingers crossed, now that we've done one and luckily, there she is my little lady, Emmy, and I'll take her lightly. We'll take that idea to market. and now we are actively seeing if we can have that sort of how Catfish was a documentary and MTV turned it into an episodic, you know, a TV show And this is a big this is a big way that I'm pushing content makers. They're coming to me saying, hey. I've got funding, and I can create 6, 10 episodes. I'm like, why don't you create 1:45 minute 1:90 minute, 1:1 hour 20 minute documentary. Nail it. Let's take it out to some festivals. Festivals are another way of getting awards. By the way, here's the funny thing about awards. There's Teli's communicator awards, w 3 awards. There's a a little bit more on the premium end of the fore reach purchaseable, pay to play. Pretty much you're gonna get a silver, but you're not always guaranteed. I've actually applied for some of those things where I thought everyone gets a silver. and it didn't place at all. Some of those awards where it's a judge a jury is judging your content based on established categorical criteria is more exciting to me than the stuff that competes us against each other so to speak. So there's, like, those 2 different constructs where we're 5 or we're gonna be narrowed down to 1 versus what you're saying, the tele awards, the communicator awards, which have awards at scale. The weird thing about that is that if you look at those tele awards and communicator and some of those sometimes get pooh poohed, Disney, Aimee, there's gigantic brands that are on there. here's something that I don't think most people are doing. After I win awards, I go to IMDb, I take that as a data point from the award ceremony and connect it to all the episodes in whatever season gets the award, and I connect it to all of the guests that are connected to all of those data points to every episode that I created at IMDB as a data point. I also take that award and make sure that my company receives the award as well. So I'm an award winning production company and an award winning Podcaster. so I can really maximize that. And turns that into a data point, a link back that's actually gonna be searchable and flexible and affect my SEO on Google. So that that's just one sort of geeky way so to speak to maximize it that some people I don't think are doing. But, again, so all about how you share it. All about how you share that info. that that makes it that makes it memorable. A lot of people win awards. So it's how you win. That's why the acceptance speech matters in the celebrity world, what you wear, how they stand out. These are things that, for example, if you want awards, then I might say on blog aggregators. Right? So blog aggregators are where I can go, and I say, one blog about journalism. Now if you were to have be an award with oh, an award winning journalism blog, a blog about award winning journalism, you would stand out as the word award winning versus all the other journalism blocks. And at a point in time where someone is looking for content in context of journalism, there you are, and you stand out. And that, again, I think, leads to more shareability, especially on aggregator those platforms where you can read it and share it or share it and then read it or share it and not even read it, you know, when I'm talking about those because people are looking for that content. And again, this is how you can be more shareable. That's the importance of creating blogs, by the way. Thinking about it, by the way, think of yourself more as the source, not the story. that'll really help the framing of how you're sharing content.

Jonathan Green: I think what you said about shareability is very interesting because a lot of people are missing that. Like, A lot of these videos that go viral or someone sitting next to someone else or something has happened to them, like, oh, I'm a nurse in a hallway or this happened or something, but it's not making it most of the conversation about is I can't believe the person did that as opposed to which is very challenging for the subject you talked about to talk about in a way that's I guess, classy is the right word or allowed to have a conversation because most people have someone in their lives that have been through one of those situations. Right? So it's like you're basically hitting almost everyone, because everyone either knows someone or knows someone or has someone in their own family when something happened. Almost every person happened on the show has someone like that when that topic comes up. It's happen to me. It's happened to them. And so that's very interesting to me because a lot of times we're so busy chasing the Flash that we don't create the share and we miss that part of shareability. We get I can maybe it's the 1st tier sharing, right, where it flies around as a viral thing. But the 2nd tier is where people actually wanna talk about it or show their friends something. That's very, very interesting way of thinking about it, which is can people talk about this at dinner? Is this the way to introduce people to a new topic? Because There are certain topics that are very difficult to talk about or taboo, whether it's people having certain conditions and growing up in a certain way or having something happen to them in the military or someone who's had something happen to them that's outside their control. A lot of times, those are the hardest things to talk about because we're, like, told we're not, but yet as a kid. Right? Those are things we don't know we're not supposed to talk about them. Like, little kids are so honest. Right? And that's I think that's very interesting because people right now, there's this phase of figuring out how to communicate in a way that's honest, especially with videos that are now, like, 7 seconds or 12 seconds. It's such a short amount of time to get a message across, and we're so busy being flashy especially, I think that a lot of people maybe this work comes up. A lot of people think that they have to act in the way that the brands they wanna work with want them to act. Like, I know I can always tell when someone is making a commercial even though they're not with a brand because their voice changes. Like, they act differently. You know what I'm talking about? Like like, suddenly, they're, like, they're acting really differently when they're holding up, like, a backpack or something. I'm like, why are you talking weird? That's right, Jonathan. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. You do that. You're like, oh, I don't know if you know, but this is my favorite type of tea. You're like, wait. What do you why are you talking like that? It's and it's such a I see this a lot in writing where people are writing dialogue and they keep saying each other's first names back and forth in every sentence. I was like, no one talks like that. It would be so weird if every sentence is, like, Vinny, I think you don't understand Vinny that as Jonathan, I feel completely different. It's like when people do bad impressions, they say the name of the person they're doing at the start of the impression. -- always me. It's like, You mean, like, my Sean Connery impression where I'm always like, hello. This is Sean Connery, and they're like, no. But you can't. That's -- Yeah. That's yeah. That's you have to do that. But there is this thing where we're trying to find that authenticity. Right? And some people's authentic self is really crazy. Right? Like, they're really extreme. They've always been doing attention stuff. They've always been doing, like, pranks in high school or whatever. But a lot of people think, oh, that's the only path. Right? Like, I always tell people what happened to me is I wrote a blog about my dating life because my dating life was insane. Like, the stuff that would happen to me was, like, so crazy. And I didn't know other when I started I didn't know other people could find your blog. So I thought I was writing a private diary, and it became for, like, a couple years the number one blog on dating in the world. And someone called me and said, would you do a book with us? that's very hard to tell people to repeat. I'm like, yeah. I wouldn't tell anyone to go on terrible dates. Have a ton to reject you. Like, my blog was, like, thousands of posts of being rejected in the worst ways. And I was like, it's so cathartic. And I was like, what is traffic? Why is my side on Google? Like, that's how I got started. I was like, well, I guess it's happening. I gotta lean into it. But a lot. And that I guess that's why I had so much authenticity because I didn't know anyone else could find it. But very rarely are we creating content with that level authenticity now. There's so much artificiality. And it's very confusing because, like, we watch some a lot of people watch a lot of reality TV, and People on reality TV are acting like they're on reality TV. Right? It's not quite the way we act in real life. Like, we don't actually fight like that. I know there's A lot of it maybe a lot of it's real, but there's certainly parts that are, like, amped up or people act a little bit different because they want they wanna get picked up for the clip. Right? Like, you wanna stay on the show. So there's this encouragement to be, like, a more extreme version of yourself. So I think that we're getting more and more used to. Like, my generation, we learned how to act from Hollywood. Right? And not real too. It's a different type of unreality. Like, I always think of when Harry met Sally, people like, that's such a romantic movie. I mean, it took up 30 years to fall in love. That's the worst nightmare. Like, you know what I mean? Imagine 30 to 50 at 50. We're finally together. That's a really long time. It's like they always show you the dinner date, But and then you go on a dinner date in high school and you're like, this is 4 hours. What am I gonna talk about? The movie only showed 3 minutes of it. So we learned these different things or these different especially from sitcoms. It's, like, every conversation, like, the parents on every sitcom would have the same fights, like, the fight about the wife nags too much or the fight about the husband wants to go fishing. No one in my family fishes, but I was like, I guess when I get married, I'm gonna have to have one of them fishing fights. Like so we learned I think the next generation is learning a different type of artificially because we call it reality TV. And it's I think maybe 20, 30 years ago, it like, especially with, like was it the first one in the real world? Maybe back then, it was a lot realer, but at stuff now. Right? There's so much production going on like that It's hard for people to see what's real and what's not. So how can people or how do you think is the way forward for people that are like, I need I guess they need to find their voice and then be shareable. If those are the 2 challenges, like -- -- more authentic? -- like that advice?

Vinnie Potestivo: Yeah. My first step would be create content for yourself. I'm so lucky that I have done this I have done this for years. My friends were like, don't let Vinny take a picture because you're never gonna see it. Yeah. Well, now on TikTok, all I do is post access to every place I've ever been backstage everywhere, and it's the coolest way, actually, for me to get the leverage where I was 20, 30 years ago, 10 years ago. Now because I've been shooting content for myself, solo audience of 1 for a long time, and I gotta be honest, there's something liberating and shooting something and knowing. And I'm not saying shoot 15 versions of the same image, and one of them is for me. I'm like, I go out and I shoot stuff that's and I see something on the street or I see a sign. I take a picture. I take pictures just for me, and I think that's what a really I didn't realize this in the process. I think it's a really cool way, a really cool mindset to have in terms of creating content and not mess necessarily intending to share it with somebody because I take photos of things that I see the beauty and not that I think the work I also take photos of things that I think the world is gonna see beauty in. There's intention in that, so why can't I put intention in the things that I found to be beautiful. Actually, this philosophy made me change my career. I realized all these things I have to do to get people cast in reality TV shows that get them in the reality I have to help them have live in the right place, have the right friends, or the right social construct, the right words. You know? There's a responsibility that comes with being on those shows as well. All of those things that I did to help people get those spots, I don't need to be hired by a network. to do what I do because I don't get paid by the network to really do the thing I do, which is help people leverage their fame. You know, I'm happy to help someone be famous if they're looking to leverage their fame to be an impactor to make this world a better place, there's no one I've worked with that's that I can even think of who is and there's some celebrities out there in the world that I know are just happy to be celebrities that don't show up anywhere in any community in any social circle or any part of all they wanna be artists, and there's an I've nothing bad to say about them. I've just never gotten to work with, I don't know, this the movie stars and, like, I've worked with real and it's weird to say this, like, Beyonce and Nancy Moorenached a good like, these people show up in our lives. Like, they're they fight for us, and, like, they They leverage their fame and their notoriety and their the awards they're winning for headlines that complement what they stand for. That's what I think is the benefit in winning awards in the part of the way to stand out. And I also know all those people create tons of projects for themselves. So we're creators. The last thing I wanna do, by the way, and here's something to think of, and this is just my experience, my own personal experience too. And this is helped shape how I charge and work with people now even is, like, I didn't wanna get paid by the network to help people have that superpower because I was only getting to work on certain types of shows for certain types of network. I realized I can work with more people and help more people be impact helpful than if I were to do it the other way around. And I still have the same great relationships and I continue to network. I by the way, I gotta work harder now than ever on TV. because the turnover rate is tough, man. Those execs, it's tough. This is a shrinking industry. It's retention. TV is about retention. This digital world that we're in is in growth mode. How can I not be focused on helping people own the content that they're creating leveraging it from podcast to broadcast. Here's the future of ESPN 2, the place where you by the way, ESPN 2, Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, all Every place is gonna be a podcast directory. Here's my projecting. Everyone's gonna be a podcast directory. It's a pass through. We're all gonna have our we're all gonna have our own podcast directories where we let certain podcasts just come in the ones that we support because we'll figure out a way for an for an advertising network to be connected to that content. We'll figure out a way for us through NFTs or through open source networking will figure out a way for us to have ownership in content and scale it and continue to create it and not rely on social media, solo platforms like TV networks to amplify our content. Right? We know publishing creates content. We know distribution plays content. Right now, most of us are amplification strategy where we promote content. Most of it is in social media. I wanna bump us up to that aggregate, syndicate. That's what you can do when you own your content. When you're not repurposing your podcast on social media, you're preurposing it because you know you have to advertise the episode. So you built it into the construct. of the episode that you're able to scale. That's the part where I like to get you. And we're this close as a podcast community. If and and as people who listen to podcasts, are part of it actively we're a special breed of communicator, man. We're it's cool. It's we're listener, orator, creator or produce whatever part you are in this podcast universe, if you're connected to it, we're a really unique tech leaned in tech Advance communicator. And I think that we can do stuff that is not gonna happen in the big publicly traded sector of media, and that's again, the big reason why I'm doing what I'm doing here is empower that voice.

Jonathan Green: What you're saying about content ownership is so important. There's so many people they've had these big shows and then they don't own it. Right? Or, like, you can lose the rights. I got offered, you know, at GJ for a long time, and someone's like, oh, I wanna buy one of your songs. And I was like, oh, that's cool. Like, I was starting out, and then it was, like, but own the right to use my image and perpetuity. And I was like, oh, oh, I know what that means, and I don't know. You could put anything you want on face on a t shirt. Right? Like, forever. Like, we don't that's such a thing to lose, and it was for $600. Like, good. A worst mistake in my life. I'm so glad I said, no. especially when whenever someone says, oh, don't let the lawyers get involved. They ruin everything. I know something terrible is about to happen to me. Like, that's the number what sign they're gonna do something terrible to me. You feel like, don't talk to the lawyers in your family. Don't talk to your lawyers. I like my sister's lawyer. My dad's lawyer. My brother in law's lawyer. Gets me real nervous. Right? They've got me at a lot of trouble. And it's this but we give up these rights and people don't realize owning your catalog, own even if it's small. Right? Like, all these big artists now they're -- -- small. Their catalogs are It's like, oh my catalogs owned by some finance company that just bought a ton of catalogs or they bought, like, every company. So owning your content so valuable And I think people sometimes forget that. And they also forget that if your content is on one social network, you don't really own your channel. Right? That's why you have to put your content in multiple places because Remember Vine, that's gone. Like, Vine was really popular, and then, I guess, Twitter bought it and decided they didn't like it anymore because it just disappeared, right, or Tumblr was so popular. Like, I grew up on MySpace. I remember when every band had to have a MySpace page. -- median. Right? Right? Instead of that website. And you would think, well, that's never gonna go. Like, I can't believe thinking 25 year, I can't believe that did it last forever. And so these it's so important to own your content, and that does mean being able to move it from platform to platform. being able to have a sense of who you are and where you're going. And I think that especially for people that are starting out, because you can get famous so fast now. You know, you could be 18. put up 10 or 20 really good TikToks, and you're having these really big pressures. Like, I remember everyone was hating on, oh, I forget his name. The young guy who, like, became a billionaire, like, 18 he bought a monkey and left it in Germany. I was like, if I had a $1,000,000,000 of 18, I would probably do that too. You know what I mean? Like, if I think about me in 18 with a $1,000,000,000, like, I would be so much dumber stuff. And it's like, you can explode so fast now that I think that a lot of we think that we should wait to make the big decisions until the moment happens, and that's the worst times. Skye, well, what do I wanna stand for? What do I wanna do? What direction do you want my career to go in? What's interesting is, like, everybody gets big on TikToks. Like, I wanna be on YouTube. like, well, why? You're so good at what you're doing. Right? Like, it's because 6 years ago was all about YouTube. Right? And 5 years would probably be something different. So I think what you're saying is very interesting because you come from a world that's so different to mind, you know, the other side of the television. Nice watching all these shows. Right? Now I found the guy that made them all. So interesting. Right? It's very, very interesting to think about but the core idea is exactly realizing that you're a brand. Like, sometimes when I work with people, they're like, I don't wanna give up my job. I wanna have a career. I'm like, your career is your business. Right? you can't get promotions and be strategic. Like, I work with people to write their first book, and it's like, oh my gosh. I got a promotion because I'm best selling author. I was like, exactly. Like, it's another way of adding another feather to your hat. So this has been very, very interesting, Vinny. I appreciate you spending so much time with me. We've gone over time. It was supposed to only last for 22 minutes. It's for 50 because I'm having such a good time. So I really do appreciate. This has been amazing. Tell people where they can find out more about what you're doing, see maybe see the other shows you've worked on, maybe see a picture of the Emmy, kind of all the good stuff. Where could people find you online? What's the best place?

Vinnie Potestivo: very cool. Yo. Come hang out. I'm at VPE dot TV. I have a creator hub where everything I've talked about from a 100 awards worthy of winning. Creator platforms, I think you should be on in 2023 for a podcaster. 50 creator marketing platforms that pay, like, how I make a couple a 100 bucks to a couple a 1000 bucks a month just by throwing my name on a list, and I know someone's looking at it that's look that's got cash in their pocket. I would give this information away for free. I need us to be successful as we're stepping into this world together, especially as creatives. vpe.tv is my website. Vinnie Potestivo on LinkedIn. Reach out and say hi, and I appreciate the space, Jonathan.

Jonathan Green: This is amazing. I'll put the links below the show notes with everyone. Make sure to go visit Vinny's website atvpe.tv because it's very cool. Let's check it out before the show. So thank you so much for being here. This was amazing. Thanks for listening to today's episode. I love podcasting, and it's never too late to start your amazing podcast. Get started with my free guide at startmaster.comforward/checklist.

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