It's important to remember that nobody's living a perfect life. There's always going to be a way that somebody can have a better life or even a better day. And that's where you can come in the real skillset isn't necessarily in thinking what value do I have to offer? It's more about thinking and what areas does this person need help? And then making a way for you to come into that area and give value.
Hello everyone. And welcome to today's very exciting addition to the Serve No Master podcast. We have an amazing guest Ali Scarlet. And today we're gonna talk about the power of networking. He's written an amazing book called "The Clever Connector". He's got some new books coming out. Going deeper and deeper into the power of networking. I know it's transformed my life and I can't wait to learn and share with you guys his amazing story and his journey becoming a power networker.
So, guys let's make a warm welcome for our today's amazing guest. How are you doing today?
Good. Thanks for having me, Jonathan.
So, I've teach about networking. And one thing I've noticed is that it's very hard for people to care about it. We often have this assumption. When you say networking, what people think of is awkward networking events where someone walks up to you gives you their business card and the conversation's uncomfortable. And everyone is hoping that someone else there helps them. So, is that the right way to view networking? Or what is your perspective? How should people really view it?
I think networking is a tool and a lot of people misuse that tool, they use it in ways that are sleazy. And unfortunately the majority of people use it that way, which is what's caused it to get that bad name and connotation and reputatation.
At the end of the day, networking is a tool and you can choose to use it wisely and reach the top 1% of people who get the life that they want and the life that they deserve, because you know how to use tools like networking correctly rather than the way that most sleazy salespeople use it as you say.
Someone wants to kinda get their toe in the door. What's the first thing they should think about when it comes to networking. I think now, because of language, we hear the word social networking, all the time. Most people think of networking as getting more Facebook friends or Instagram followers or LinkedIn connections.
Yeah. That depends on where you are on your journey. So, different people have different areas for improvement. So, as far as where they would get started, That would depend on what aspects of socialization and knowing how to communicate. They've already mastered and gotten down. For most people though, I would say a great place to start would be LinkedIn. It gives you a great foundation and a great platform to get started.
And it's challenging in a sense, because a lot of people are on LinkedIn and they only connect because they wanna have that nice little follower count that says 500 plus connections and they don't genuinely want to connect.
So, a part of working on LinkedIn and networking on LinkedIn is that in a way it pushes you to become one of the people who stand out as someone who's not sleazy and trying to sell people something, but also encourages people to engage with you and actually be a part of your network. Does that make sense?
Yeah. I'd love to dive more into that because I've always had a love, hate relationship with LinkedIn. One of my good friends is a super connector, a power connector on there. So, everyone who goes through his training, he used to use my profile as the example in his training. And millions of people saw that, which means all these people don't add me because they think I'm a super connector. No, it's just my friend, but he would used my profile as an example. When we met my profile was terrible.
I just had a copy of my resume on it. I find that a lot of people add me and they never message me. And they endorse me for all these different skills, which is nice. I have so many endorsements for skills I don't have, they just click on my profile, just endorse, endorse, which is nice, but very rarely do I get a message that's not copy and paste. Probably. 1% at most of the messages. And I find it hard.
I've never had a good conversation on LinkedIn, my best friend from college, for some reason, that's his main communication channel. That's the only way he talks to me and even talking to him. When we reconnect every year, a couple years, we only sent one or two, three messages back and forth. It's never like an in depth conversation. So, I always hear that I'm using LinkedIn long. I've never been able to cross that bridge. So, I wonder.
How can you express that you don't want something from someone because every time I get a message, I'm like, I can't wait to see what they want. Even when LinkedIn messages me, they're like, Hey, we want to give you something special. How about you upgrade? And it never feels even from the platform like they actually wanna get to know me.
So, to be clear, are you asking how to say no?
No, I'm asking, how is someone who wants to network on LinkedIn, able to stand out and show that they're more than that? That they're not just something who's trying to take- take that they're not after something every time they message you.
Yeah. A part of standing out is it's a two hand approach because a part of LinkedIn is 50% your outreach and your actual messaging, which can say a lot about you. And it's also about your profile and the way that you set up your profile. If someone, for example, reaches out to. And the way that they reach out to you with their connection invitation as a part of their request is they say, Hey, saw your profile looked interesting.
You should check out this new video that we just posted on YouTube, et cetera, et cetera. And then you look on their profile and it says Head Sales Rep of XYZ ABC company, then, okay. Clearly they're probably doing sales. They're probably trying to get you to buy their product. That is what I'm talking about when I say avoid that. And if you wanna stand out. A pretty safe way of standing out is simply to be a person first.
And if you know that you wouldn't appreciate someone approaching you that way, then you can pretty safely assume that others won't appreciate that either. So, approaching as a person first, taking a look at their profile, looking at the things that you genuinely like about their work and noticing that and calling attention to that, giving value such as by giving a compliment to their work and then facilitating the relationship forward from that authentic conversation.
I think it's that initial message that people find so challenging because I personally find it hard to care about someone before I've met them. I see a profile if I message them, how can I care about them as a person? Cause it's such a two dimensional piece of information and there's so many profiles to me it's feels like looking at a baseball card and be like, this is the one I wanna be friends with. So, how do I break through that kind of emotional barrier?
Yeah, that comes from cultivating a deep love for people. First and foremost, I would say, and that usually happens through practicing things like empathy and developing your emotional intelligence, things like that can help you cultivate a deep love.
For people who are first starting out and don't have that deep love for people yet you could actually not necessarily take an interest in them yet, but take an interest in their work and something that they're working on that may be of interest to you.
Then that can be a start, a place to start caring about until you reach a point in the relationship where you can care more about them, maybe because they open up about something personal that you relate with, or because they share something that it turns out you have a lot of common ground with them on.
Okay. I know a lot of your training in your book. I read some of it in, I was reading about your acronym master, which is master power dynamics, top mindset. I wonder about this idea, master the power dynamic. Cause that sounds really intense for a lot of people, we got master, its got the word power. It's a very aggressive term. What exactly does that mean? How can someone even perceive the power dynamic?
Sometimes I notice, at least in my experience that people aren't even aware of the power dynamics in a room, cuz they're focused on the wrong person.
Yeah. That is a loaded question. That's a big question. First power dynamics is the way that I put it simply the way in which power flows in a given environment. So, for example, if you're going on a date with a girl and you agree, we're going
00 PM. And you show up and you're there on time.
00 PM and then eight o'clock comes.
05PM. Where is she? Nothing.
15PM she shows up, walks through the door, sits down and starts having a conversation with you. No apology as if nothing just happened as if she didn't just pretty much almost flake on you. That's an example of a power move because she's sub communicating that her time is more important than you. So much so that she can make you a lower priority in her day. It doesn't have to apologize to you when she messes with your time and with your day that flows the power in the relationship to her.
And if you don't do something to address that power move, then that's where you come across as weak or as the overly nice guy. And that's an example of being aware of the power dynamics when things are flowing, the power away from you, that it can cause you to get less opportunities in life. Because you're getting less respect from the people around. Does that make sense?
Yeah. So in my experience, it's really good. There's something I wanna dive into it's that there's two levels of this. The first level is, oh, you notice someone doing a power dynamic thing against you, or you feel like they're taking your time or not giving you enough attention and you feel the need to respond. And this happens to me a lot is that people make an assumption about me.
When I don't respond when actually for me, it's a lack of care, if someone is late I don't care, I don't let it affect me. Like at a lower level. It's oh, I have to deal with this, but I'm at create a faith. And these people often misinterpret this as weakness. I often go into negotiations where people think I'm very weak because I'm not very expressive. I'm very quiet. And so people misinterpret that where it's I don't feel the need to express my power dynamic.
Now there is a point obviously where it crosses for me where I can tell they're up to something, but oftentimes I'm like 15 minutes, whatever. It doesn't matter to me. Sometimes it is they're playing a game and sometimes it is, they got stuck in traffic or something happened along the way. Where is the line where you see those two moments where you can tell someone's up to something, cuz I've noticed this and I can give you big examples.
I was in negotiation a few years ago and we made an agreement and the next day they violated the agreement and they thought I would just take it. And I went the next day. I was like, no, you've made a horrible mistake. I don't do renegotiations. But people oftentimes misinterpret quietness for weakness.
I used to spend a lot of time when I first started building my online business with a lot of Navy seals and they never tell anyone real Navy seals, never tell anyone I had this friend who's a Navy seal. And he didn't tell anyone because he didn't. He was like, I already know, I can kill everyone in this room. And I was like, including me, he was like, you're first. And I was like, oh, that's you have this level of confidence.
And that's the thing when you there's like the level where you wanna tell everyone, like maybe when you first pass buds, of course you wanna tell when you've had this achievement, but you get to a certain point where you're like so confident. That you don't need to tell everyone. So, that's what I'm really interested is that next level power dynamic and that level of perception.
Yeah. That depends on how you prefer to express your power. So, some people express power over the environment by having that style. And it's sometimes referred to as the, been there, done that style where they've seen it all, they've been through it all and they don't have to move much or say much to still establish dominance or show their status.
There are other people who prefer to have a style, which is more the charismatic style, and they might do more talking and as a result of the way that they speak and the way that they engage the room and the way that they have an exciting presence and admir ability about them talking works in their favor. Other people might express their power through a more charming style and talking too much can be less charming. So, they prefer to be a little bit more quiet and to do more listening.
Which can actually be a way of showing a care about people and wanting to hear what they have to say. So, it really depends on which way you prefer to express your power and how you go about doing that.
How do you find, which is your, the best way for you to express your power? I went through a phase in my late twenties where I read all this personal about my books and the first thing everyone learns is to like, overdo it as the best way to say it is to jump into every situation because you've never jumped in any. I certainly went through a phase in my life where I let people walk all over me.
And then you go to the opposite of the spectrum where you're like every single time something happens, I have to push against it to demonstrate that Im not weak. Cause you're finding yourself. And I think that's really important to understand is that you are figuring it out. And so, you go from zero to a hundred because you can't yet calibrate, which is a phase, figuring things out, going, oh, wait, I have to say something sometimes. And not sometimes.
And so, when to jump in and when not jump in, but how can you figure out what is the right way for you? Because I know for me, I thought, oh, I have to be loud. Because I've always been quiet. And so, I went through a really long phase of that tens of thousands of conversations before I realized that quiet confidence is the highest level where you don't need to tell everyone you're the toughest guy in the room.
You don't need to tell everyone you're most successful person in the room because you already know it. And so, you just wait for people to realize it. And if they don't, they missed it. But on the way up there, you have to find that whether you're charismatic or talkative or quiet, how do you find your true way, best way for you to communicate?
That depends on a couple of different factors. And I think the two biggest factors would actually be your personality and your goals. So, for example, one way of expressing your power will be something called the gesture style, which is where similar to how you have comedians. They can crack all kinds of jokes about people, and it's hard to push back or do anything about it, cuz everybody's so busy laughing. So, you can look like the guy who is just thin skinned.
If you try and push back on some of the jokes that may actually be hurtful, that's a way of that person expressing power over the environment. The thing is, if you try to adopt that style for yourself, it can be very difficult if that's not your personality to be so loud and energetic and funny. And so, your personality comes into play when you're choosing that.
And the case of networking specifically, your goal is to connect with high power individuals, people who have the power to impact your life and change your life for the better. In that case, the best style for you might be the charmer style to be the person who can smoothly navigate the room, who can follow up with people elegantly and not be the sleazy person who, when you pop up in their inbox, they wanna throw it in the trash bin.
I think charm reminds me of the words like charismatic. They're really good to be, but also really hard to become. I have friends who are very charismatic. I have friends who are very charming and it's hard. I think it's hard for someone to become more charming because the way we define our society so, what does that mean? And you just know it when you see it, which is hard to know. How can someone become more charming or how can someone detect if they have the ability to even be charming?
I think we all have the potential to be charming if we work hard enough, I'm a big believer in the idea that the only thing standing between you and anything you want to accomplish is time and a skill set. So, it's simply an idea of defining what you need to learn and then working hard to learn that thing and develop the skill sets you need. The three aspects that comprise charm, the three elements or factors are value, comfort, and social skills.
So, when you have a high personal value and when you're comfortable in yourself and in your environment, and when you have the social skills to charm somebody, so working on social skills, there are some great books on social skills out there working on your self-esteem. There are concepts like the antifragile ego by Nassim Taleb, which are absolutely awesome. I'm a huge advocate of that.
And working on your high personal value, which may be something like acquiring more status and resources, you could also be doing more networking so that you can have higher connections. And that is something that raises your value.
Let's say we're getting into that phase where I'm trying to become networking with people that have more value or more power than me. How can I enter those relationships? First of all, how can I even encounter people that have what I'm looking for? And then how can I in meet them without seeming like I'm lower value than them?
Yeah. That is also a big question, bigger than you might realize, because it's contextual. It varies from situation to situation, depending on how you're meeting them and where you're meeting them and what you're meeting them as.
And there are also a lot of factors that go into presenting yourself to the world as someone who is powerful, your nonverbal communication, having the social skills and the awareness of the power dynamics to make sure that the power isn't constantly flowing away from you, that you're not constantly appearing as weak. So, I would say that it would start with yourself. It would start with getting great control over your mind, and then over your behavior.
And then from that point, figuring out what value you can give to those people and then giving that value. As a way of showing that you are not someone who's in their life to be a leech and a taker.
Can we go from a lot of these terms are terms most people don't know a lot of people aren't gonna understand unless they read a lot of networking books. Can we get really specific and just, maybe you give a specific case example from you or from one of your students or from in your life, what this means. Like a specific thing where you would go to meet someone, how you would interact with them and how you would actually do these things.
Let's get really practical because I just worry my audience as much as I know all these terms. Cuz I love networking books. I worry that we're getting too technical as far as terms and let's just give 'em a practical example.
Yeah. Okay. So what would you like an example of. Exactly?
Yeah. So let's say I work at nine to five and I wanna get hired at another company, one level above where I'm at. Like I'd like to get move from where I'm at to like management. And I know I can't do it within my own company cuz they already see me as particular way. It's very hard. But if I meet a new company, I can jump or leapfrog.
Awesome career transition then. So, one thing you can do is you can go and Google a list of the different industries that are out there. Pick out of that list. The industries that are interesting to you. Then go on LinkedIn and put that industry into the search chat, the search bar, and you'll see a bunch of job titles that align with that industry. Make a note of the job titles that are interesting and appeal to you.
From that point, you're starting to get clearer on what you want to transition into exactly. Then you can go and connect with the people who have that job title to get more insight into how much you actually like the idea of working in that position. Sometimes we find out about a job title and we have a rosy fantasy idea of what it's gonna be like. And the reality isn't exactly the ideal.
Once you've identified the job title that you want in the industry that you want, you can start looking at companies. So, look at the people who have the job title already, and then look at what company they're working for. If you look at their profile, it's usually in the experience section that they're presently working at X, Y, Z company. And then look at the types of companies that are out. Google their competitors to see what other companies like that are out there.
And from there, you can start narrowing down which company is your dream company. From that point forward, you have your dream job title and your dream company. Now it's only a matter of networking to get into a bigger position in that company. And that can start from actually using LinkedIn. Once you have your dream company, you can put that company into the LinkedIn search. Look at that company.
And if you have something like LinkedIn premium or LinkedIn sales navigator, you can look at the top decision makers in that company. From there, you can connect with them via LinkedIn, and you can use an email finder service such as hunter.io or rocket reach.com to get their email addresses and send an email. The email is going to be to get them onto a meeting.
And then once you get them onto that meeting, you're gonna have a conversation and a back and forth to get an idea of the role, to get more information about it and to give any value that you can, that starts getting the relationship built and nurtured. And from that point forward, that's where you start deciding, do I still wanna go through with an interview? Is this what I wanted or not? And if you wanna go through with the interview, You're free to do so.
I find the person who's the decision maker at the company I would've worked for. I send them the cold email, what's in that email. What do I say?
That depends on how high up they are. Sometimes you can simply send an email, letting them know that you like the work that they're doing. You're very interested in the work that they're doing. And you'd be grateful if you could have a few minutes of their time to get an idea of what it's like in their job position. Other times, if you're, for example, I reached out to a, the CEO of Coursera. And this guy is the head of this multi-billion dollar company.
So, instead of sending a simple email like that, the cold email that I send actually started with me going on YouTube and looking for any talks that he had done. I watched a talk and then in the email, I started out by letting him know that I enjoyed one of his talks. And I let him know the parts of the talk that I agreed with to show I'm not just this guy who's saying this. I actually watch the talk. And I agree with what you're saying.
And I have some information and value to add on top of this, to this conversation. I enjoy the conversation. And then from that point forward, I let him know that I'd be grateful to speak with him a little bit more about what the culture is like at the company of Coursera and a little bit more about things that I was interested in. And we had a conversation and it was a great conversation. And from there, he connected me to the hiring manager of his company. And that gave me a lot of leverage.
Cuz now if you're the hiring manager of a company and the CEO of your company says meet with this person, the chances that you're going to say no are very low.
Okay. So is a lot of your approach is the majority of your approach start with the online, start with the research, start with the outreach that way. Or do you also have a component? That's the face to face style networking?
Face to face is very difficult in the world we live in now. I believe that's what I call a big touchpoint. And I wanna move away from the terms, as you mentioned, it's a way of deepening the relationship that is very big. To move to a face to face meetup, though, there has to be some relationship. There has to be some rapport first, and that's where using easier, more convenient mediums first can help smooth the relationship to lead up to that bigger meetup. Does that make sense?
Yeah. No. It's very interesting, cuz I'm an old school type networking. I bake my networking, do my networking in person. And so, then I then transfer it to online usually afterwards, but I'm much more of an in person first. Obviously the world is changing a great deal. And that's why I'm interested in this shift that you're talking about because it seems like yeah, more and more.
People don't wanna meet strangers because they worried about disease or other things and always things going on now that there's just this whole shift in mindset. I think the idea of value is really important. I think this is where a lot of people get lost because they think to themselves I have no value to offer. And so, they struggle with that opening introduction. And we talked earlier about how self-confidence or belief in yourself is so important.
And I think that is the core part of networking, right? Like it's hard to approach someone. I think I have anything to offer them. If you think you have nothing to offer. So, what would you recommend for someone who's starting out and saying, how can I figure out what I'm worth? How can I find my personal value so that then I can reach other people and do offer them some forms of value and feel like it's worth their time and I'm not wasting their time?
Yes. Value is simply defined as anything that makes or has the potential to make someone better off. And so, it's important to remember that nobody's living a perfect life. There's always going to be a way that somebody can have a better life or even a better day. And that's where you can come in. The real skillset isn't necessarily in thinking what value do I have to offer?
It's more about thinking in what areas does this person need help and then making a way for you to come into that area and give value there. Does that answer your question a little bit?
Yeah. I think that on a higher level, but like in the practical is what I really wanna dig into. Cause I know that's where people struggle because it's the theory to implementation phase. Which is where people like go well, I know I should be confident. It's you always hear that phrase, be yourself, but it's myself worked. I would be having a much better life and it's that how to be your best self.
So, for me, for example, when there's someone I wanna meet I try to figure out, and again, this is all in person. So, I'll go to an event that I know they're gonna be at or location, where they spend time and I'll start to meet other people there that know that person or that if they meet me, they'll go, wow, this guy knows everyone. So, I like to call it building an advantage.
So, if I know their favorite restaurant is this particular restaurant become friends with everyone works in the restaurant or a bar, or if it's a conference at a hotel, I might even go a day early and meet all the hotel staff. So, when I walk around, people go, Hey Jonathan. So, I have this locational situational value. Sometimes it's the simplest things like knowing where the bathroom is or knowing how things work or knowing how to get to the restaurants and that kind of stuff.
So, I sometimes didn't have the small pieces of value that become really valuable. Like when I'm looking for the bathroom, whoever knows where it is. I want that information. And so, that's worked for me in the past, like these really small things. And I think the challenge, especially for online is that because I can't do any of the things that I'm good at, right?
None of those work, because we're not in a specific location, it there's no chance for the other people to create an environment that I have to go and reach someone directly. And I find it very hard not to leak that I want something for them. Cuz of why else would I reach out to them? Like every time someone emails me, I know they want something because otherwise they wouldn't email. So, I think that's that bridge where people get really stuck and where I get stuck.
So, sometimes I wanna meet someone and it's hard because it feels awkward or uncomfortable and you're going well, I'm just bothering this person or how am I gonna get noticed? And I think. Part of what you talked about. Seems like there's quite a bit of research that goes into an approach before you message someone. How much time do you spend researching a person before you reach out to them and how do you find the line between, oh, they're paying attention and it's a bit too much.
Like I see sometimes people find out about a famous person's kids or a wealthy person's kids and they message them. Oh like, my kids have the same disease as your kids or my kids go to the same school as your kids, or get something like. First, and I don't know how I'd respond to that. That hasn't happened to me yet. I've seen it happen to other people. And I don't know if that's okay, you went a little too far. Like how do you find that line?
Yeah. Okay. It sounds like you asked two questions there. One would be taking the theory down to the practical in terms of giving real value. And then another would be in terms of where do you draw the line when it comes to giving personal information or doing research?
Exactly.
Okay. To answer the first question, what I like to do for face to face networking since that's something you enjoy. And that's something that I also enjoy is I like to invite people to lunch. You invite them to lunch, and it's my treat. I'll buy you lunch. I'll pay for the lunch. That's something where, when someone can enjoy their favorite meal and they don't have to pay for it, it's an obvious incentive to meet up. And so, that is a form of value that you can give.
That's a little way that you can make their day better. As far as your second question, which was how much research should you do, how much information gathering is necessary and where do you draw the line as far as common ground and giving personal information. That comes down more to your understanding and your competency when it comes to social skills, networking is not this far off concept that is distant from social skills and communication.
You use social skills in communication as a means of networking effectively. And so, if you feel like it's oversharing and you have a good emotional intelligence and social intelligence, then chances are it's oversharing. So, it's less of a networking question and more of a socialization question. And that would be a whole of other topic that we could get into only if you want to.
Yeah. The thing about that, and it is a deep topic is that most people are awkward in my experience. I know I certainly am in certain situations. And so, it's very hard to, at a later age, especially like now that I'm in my forties, I don't really work on developing my social skills. Like I was happy to do it in my twenties, but now I'm at that phase where I'm like, I'm done with that. I age out of it. And I know for some people they didn't go through that phase.
Then they need to do it later in life. You gotta do it now. So, I know that's very challenging, but I want, I don't wanna spend too much time on that. I know you've given us a lot of your time. I'd like to hear your last book was called "The Clever Connector", which I've read a bit of and we've done some cross questions. Very cool. I like some of the core concepts in it and that's where I got that master acronym from. But what about your new book called "The Social Strategy"?
Can you tell me how it's different and what people can look forward to when it comes out?
Yes. "The Clever Connector" is more about the social strategies to connect with people who are farther ahead than you in life. And "The Social Strategist" is more about the advanced social skills that you need in order to master your social life and to win more negotiations and to raise your status. So, as we mentioned before, you can present yourself to others as someone who is also powerful.
Okay. My final question is for me, when I was trying to learn how to be better at social interactions, I went to places where nobody knew me and where the consequences didn't matter, like the worst place to try to develop your social skills or practice these principles is like at college where you're in a small set group. And as soon as you're weird to one person, they tell everyone it's much better to be a no risk environment. And same thing.
I always tell people like, if you wanna practice like networking or asking for races or this type of communication, go to networking events. Outside of your industry for jobs you would never wanna have. So, I used to go to loads of networking events where I didn't wanna meet anyone. I didn't care. I was at practice talking people to see what people did I didn't like and what people did that I liked. And that's why I don't really carry a business card.
Cuz every time someone gave me one, it was such an uncomfortable moment because there were people at networking events going, here's my card. Maybe you can save me. And I'm like, that's not a very good feeling. And that's where I practice my social skills.
So, how can someone, especially now where there's less and less group type events or it's more challenging hone their skills in a no risk environment or get a little better, like social awareness or learning more about social cues without the risk of, their industry or their job?
I think that anything worth having in life is gonna have some risk. And I think that sometimes the amount of risk is in our heads. So, for example, I was in a period in high school where I was isolated completely and that was beforehand something that I never would've wanted to risk happening, but looking back, it turned out to be one of the best things for me. So, not only is the risk, not only in our head, sometimes the risk is not only bad is not always bad. Sometimes it's good.
Sometimes it's something that we need. And so, what I would personally recommend is something called lunch club. Big challenge with LinkedIn is that when someone is on LinkedIn, they're expecting you to be sleazy, cuz so many people hit their inbox per day with a sales pitch. And so, some people will accept your connection request simply for the benefit of having a higher connection count on their profile, but they won't wanna talk to you.
The difference with lunch club is that they have an algorithm. Where, when you fill out your profile, they'll match you with somebody who has similar interests or similar background or similar expertise. And they'll set up the meeting for you. All you have to do is show up and you meet with a random person from around the world. And there's little to no risk because there are so many people on this platform and you can simply hone your skills, work on your mindsets, work on your skill sets.
And try out different networking tactics and techniques. That would be my personal recommendation.
Okay. That's interesting. I've never heard of that. So, that's really cool. I'll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes for today's episode in below. And where can people find more about you? Where can they find access to all of your different books and learn more about the amazing things you're doing to help people to break outta their shells?
You can find me @thecleverconnector.com. That's where people go to get my latest findings networking. As far as where you can get my books, you can always type in Ali Scarlet on Amazon, and my page will pop up.
Okay, that's amazing. Thank you so much for being here. This has been an amazing episode. I know we had some connection issues, but I appreciate you sticking around as we reconnected. And thank you so much for being on today's episode. I know my audience is gonna absolutely love it.
This is my pleasure, Jonathan, thank you for having me.