This is the Art Beauty podcast where we are always reaching for truth in beauty. Remember, the people in the brands on the show are not paying to be here. So we get to have those tough conversations because you deserve to be informed so you can make the best choices for yourself. With that said, I'm your host, Amber Melton. Today, my fabulous co-host is Dr. Michael Riley. He is a double board certified facial plastic surgeon practicing out of Washington, D.C.
It is such an honor to have you here today. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to chat with you. So I just got to give us a little bit of a shout out because we have a great show today. We're going to be talking about social media and how people can tweak images. Now, maybe not a big deal if your mom's doing it, if your sister, your brother, but it can be a big deal when plastic surgeons are doing it.
So Dr. Riley is here to talk to us about how we can kind of decode those images. We were going to show some really wild ones out there. You sent me a bunch. And then we both realize. These are not ours. I don't want to get sued. So, Doctor, I love it. You were like, I'm actually going to use some of your own photos to kind of highlight things to be looking out for. So I just want to say, before we even get started, you've been one of my favorite guests ever.
Just was taking a half hour to kind of go through and greet the week on the spot. So thank you so much. And you were like the technical support because that's not my forte. So thank you so much for getting those photos together. And yeah, I think it's actually probably even more authentic.
Our conversation, because some of these mistakes are mistakes I've made in my own, you know, pre and post ops and trying to, you know, get content developed and then realizing later that maybe I was doing things unintentionally or some maybe even intentionally subconsciously to make my post-ups look better. But thankfully that's been brought to light.
More recently, there have been a couple of good articles talking about just like how manipulated plastic surgery images are and, you know, self-reflection is a good thing to do. So it certainly made me turn and say what's what? What's going on with my pre and post up photos? Are they authentic? And I really stand by these and you and I can kind of tease through some of the ways that I feel like, yes, I can. And maybe the ways that in the past I was being less authentic with the pre and post ups.
You know, like I said, not intentionally, but but they're they're. Listen, I'm going to I'm going to you know, first of all, I love honesty. I love when people come, you know, listen to my own career. Certainly when filters came out, I was like, this is great. You know, we've discussed this. They now work on QVC. QVC is totally based on authenticity. If we're going to show a before and after on air, my before has to be shot in that studio that day.
And the after has to be, you know, is being done live because they certainly pride themselves on on having that authenticity and developing that trust with consumers. Well, I love that. I mean, honestly, that's like you can see that how that could become an industry standard and not exactly that because obviously you can't do surgery and recover from it and have your post-op photo taken on the same day.
But the more and more criteria we put together as like this is what's an acceptable before and after photo, the you know, the stronger everything will be then everyone's comparing the same apples to apples. And no, I actually think that's very novel and pioneering to QVC to do that. You know, it's great. And and listen, you've probably seen it not just talking about other plastic surgeons, but I've been at many brand presentations and they will show those before and afters.
And it's laughable when you see the techniques that are being used. And it's like, look, we trim this person's neck and in the first one they're like, but on the second one they're out to hear and it's like, okay, okay. And that's even better.
When the product is something like a skin care product or like a topical or some sort of, for instance, like a radiofrequency device where there isn't like a clear cut or something that you actually did because then you're just like, well, that's within the realm of, you know, we call it the margin of error. I mean, if you take two pictures of the same person, you're going to get two different results, you know, so yeah, no, some of those are really atrocious.
And and but there are so this is something you may not know. There are really there are standard photographic measures in facial plastic surgery photos. So for the face specifically, you know, we have specific views that we take, but we also have very specific orientation of the face. So it's called the Frankfort horizontal plane. It's how every photo of the face is supposed to be taken.
And it is the idea behind that wasn't well-intended, which is let's make sure we're comparing apples, apples and get the photos taken at the same angle, because you can imagine my neck looks a lot different from down here than it does from right here.
And so if that in the Frankfort horizontal plane, just to be to dork out for a second and tell you other industries inside scoop it's when the the lower part of the orbit so the orbital rim right here, the very bony part of the eye has to line up on a horizontal plane with the top of the ear canal. So like when I'm in, patients in my office all the time are wondering what am I doing? But I kind of grab their, you know, head and help them tilt and reposition.
But I'm always trying to get that top of the ear canal to line up with the bottom of the orbital rim right there. So that then I know the after is going to look the exact same. So there is that that's been you know, we're trying.
You know, you are trying and I and I don't want to diverge too much but there are also great apps right now that help people at home take I forget the name of it, but there's one that will kind of help you make sure that your face is measured so that you can kind of track progress. And it's a great idea. You know, to make sure that your face is in the same place, to make sure that lighting is similar. But it's tough. It's really tough.
So you have agreed to share some of your own photos of things that we should be looking out for. I wish we could have used some of them. I mean, some of them that you sent me were just laughable. But we're going to play it safe here. So I'm going to actually try to share these now. All right. And we can kind of talk through things that we should be looking for. Sure, I promise. Consumers are comparing plastic surgery photos.
I'm going to preface this by saying that we just quickly grabbed these off of my Instagram. As you know, you're more than welcome to go look for yourself. None of these have been doctored. It's which is Mike Riley, M.D. But the photo that we wanted to highlight, which was like my my just said, go to my most recent post-op photo that's on there, is because I use very, very controlled circumstances to take my photos.
Now, the one thing that I cannot control for sometimes is the actual lighting that's coming in from the windows in the office where I do the photos because it's not a complete darkroom. So even this which was taken in this with the same camera, in the same in the same exact location and the same in front of the same background, you can see there's like a little bit of a dark edge on the left side of the post-op photo. But in general, this is how a pre and post op photo should look.
You should the background should look the same. You know, the amount of makeup should really look the same. So specifically, you know, like her lipsticks is the same. I will say like even in this one because you cannot control for everything. Looks like she has eyeliner on in her second photo. Yeah. Having didn't have in the prep and this photo, by the way, what we're looking at is a lower left for a plaster result.
So the bag is on her left side where there's like kind of that deep crease and then the visible bag, that's the photo. That's what that was done. That was what that is what was done surgically. And that's kind of what we're looking for, looking at after surgery. So this is generally what you want to see. Even, you know, the the size of the head is the same. We always whenever I'm doing the pre and post ups, my assistant doesn't. But I always say, you know, drag it on top of the other one.
So it's really like lined up. Everything should be the same size you can imagine for a rhinoplasty or something. The size really make a big difference if the head is smaller afterwards, the nose is going to be smaller too, which might give you might give you a, you know, a boost in one direction or the other. So this is a well-matched photo. This is what you want to see in your your doctors before and after photos.
You don't want to see some dramatic makeover where, you know, the patient was, you know, having just rolled out of bed on the left and then on the right side, they were getting ready to go to the Met gala. Like, that's not the look that we're going for. So so that this is you know, that's the background. If you want to go to, like the next one, I can kind of start we can start going through some of the errors that I've made over the years with my before and after photos.
So now this is one where this is a really good, funny story. This woman is beautiful and wonderful and she has been so gracious to share her photos because this photo actually was published on the Today Show when I was on that show like ten years ago, talking about a study I did about how people are perceived differently after a facial plastic surgery. And Hoda, I'll never forget, you know, I was nervous.
I was pretty, pretty young doctor at the time and she was like, well, I think she looks better in the after photo because she had a blowout. And the second photo and I was like, my gosh, you know? And I said, Well, you know, yeah, you know, she did her hair does look better, but, you know, she also had this, that and other thing. So she so but the hairstyle was the point of that.
And it was and it was interesting because it was her immediate and she's a she's a real journalist like she was like, I'm not into the chase because there is this, you know, bias factor that I think a lot of people inherently, like we discussed earlier, you'll see it in certain photos. You're like, why are they even trying to look at it like this is from this is the same, you know, a comparison. But like in this case, this is just how she happened to look the day the day she came in for post-op.
And frankly, part of it was because she was really happy with the result. And I think she was getting a little more dolled up after surgery than she was before surgery. But so that's that's an important thing. If you if you go to someone's Instagram like mine and you see a trend of like every single post photo, they're in full makeup and their hair is blown out, then I mean, there are doctors practices who do that.
They they do a whole make up thing right before they take their post-op photos because they're trying to make them look as good as possible. Well, you're not comparing apples to apples. So that's that's like a good example of, you know, be be aware that it's, I think, a trend that maybe you would see. And and by the way, one of the things that got us talking about this was the study that was done showed that most people want to see dramatic changes.
So the top performing plastic surgery Instagram profiles, they're 97% of them are altering their photos in some way or they're or they're they're, you know, manipulating their photos to be more positive after surgery than they are before surgery. So that's because that gets engagement. I mean, that's why they're top because they're like, people love that change. So so this is one where I'm just like this. We mainly showed this just to say hairstyle can make a difference, you know?
Yeah. Little bit more makeup in the post-op photo, too. So those are, you know, those are definitely things that are not comparing directly. What about the next one? What do you have there? I get there. Okay. Okay. So this is another I mean, my patients first of all, I love my patients. Secondly, anyone who's been willing to share their photos is extra special because it's you know, it's hard. If you had plastic surgery to begin with, that was usually because you didn't like something.
So people are willing to share that. I just have to give a huge thank you to my patients. You talk to that? Yeah. And celebrate and support you. 100% and, and you know and, and they're amazing. And look at this photo. I mean, it looks like incredible. I did do a neck lift on this patient. She. She's lovely. This was a photo taken years later, she came back to see me and she was here for other reasons. And I was like, let's get a post up. And I'm like, my God, this is like the best result ever.
And then we started talking and I was like, she had lost a little bit of weight after the surgery. So her, her whole composition had changed. I'm not claiming full credit for this result with just my surgery. If you lose weight and you have any bit of heaviness in your neck, it's probably going to get a little bit better. Now, the contours. Great. So I was okay. I got the skin treated, but there's no there's no there's no sagging skin there. But I'm not taking full credit for the entire result.
So and, you know, it's like, how much do you disclose in a photo like, well, this was five years later and the patient lost £20. Most doctors aren't including that in their before and after are kind of details. So so we probably all seen that before, too, where the patient, her, him or herself has had a favorable cosmetic change or intervention. And then the pictures benefit as as a result, maybe they've been working out whatever.
You know, I see that a lot, especially with body makeovers, whether it's liposuction, the mommy makeover, you know, and I'm sure some of that is that once you have gotten rid of some of that excess fat, that excess skin, maybe you're a little bit more inclined to work out. But things to be aware of, you know, and I've always said this, that, listen, I've had plastic surgery myself. You really need to sort of manage expectations. Yes. And you want to be with a surgeon
who's going to help you manage expectations. So. Okay, so this is something good, but but to your credit, the profiles are the same. You know, she's wearing relatively the same amount of makeup and the backgrounds are the same. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good job. I wasn't trying to trick anybody. I will say, do you remember? I don't know if you would remember this, but when I was a kid, you know, I'd be watching TV and there'd be these ads for, I don't know what they were like.
Maybe like GNC, vitamins or protein powder or like those AB crunchers. And the before and after photos would be like some guy in his garage, you know, like this big like, you know, over overweight body that that was not he was not caring for. And then the after photo was like taken in front of a mirror with all the light shining on it. And so this has been going on not just in the facial plastic surgery realm or plastic surgery realm. It's basically
before and after is throughout time people have been figuring this out. So. I mean, I love TV magic. Listen, the difference between like pulling your pants, like letting your pants, you know, if you were in spandex and letting that fat roll, you know, hangover versus pulling them up. I know all about that. All right. This is a good one because, you know, this doesn't have any sort of professional looking background. And part of that is because this is not a cosmetic patient.
This is a young man had actually had some injuries and his smile was not functioning properly on the right side. So we ended up replanting his muscle, which had gotten evolved in the right cheek. And that's why he now has like the matching tip on the after photo. But I thought this was a good one because, you know, on the left side, you've got the trees in the background. In my office, we're showing in the showing the background on the right side, there's many blinds behind there.
So that inherently is going to change the lighting. And then on top of that, it's just distract ding. You know, it's really like, so if this was a cosmetic photo, you would be on major. No, no. Why are you first of all, why don't you ever act together enough to be taking the cosmetic before and after photo? That would be one kind of red flag to me.
And then secondly, even if you weren't using a, you know, a professional blue background, why is it that they're different backgrounds and you'll see weird shadows in people's photos, You'll see the color is just not right. But this one was pretty glaring when we were looking quickly to my instrument, like, yeah, that's a good one. Like, if someone did that for a cosmetic photo, you would be wanting to, you know, put your alarm bells up.
Yeah, man, I really do wish we could have just gone and done a deep dive on other people's Instagram. But again, thank you for being so willing to use your own photos as an example. Okay, here's here's here's the lot. Here's one where I think the lighting we might have this one. And is there one more about there maybe not this this one where the lighting is just not right. And my excuse here because she's relatively recent like I knew better. You know, she's lined up properly.
Everything is properly positioned and scaled. But I have two offices. One of them is my office, my main practice at Georgetown University, and the other one is my private practice office in McLean, Virginia, about 20 minutes away from here. And I have the same camera and have the same flashes, but the rooms are very different than I take the photos in. And sometimes the lighting is just I can I get the lighting match? And this is a good example of like what is happening with the lighting here.
I mean, her eyes look totally different colors. Obviously the backgrounds are totally different color. She's beautiful. In both pictures, the post up is on the right where we've refined her nose, her nasal tip a little bit, but she almost looks a little washed out in the right side of picture. So if this was one, this would be a good example. If someone was showing you like, wow, look what I did for her skin color. Yeah. Isn't it amazing how how. Great. Skin looks? It's like, wait a minute.
No, that's just a has anyone like a flash just flashed on her skin. That's why it looks so clear and and homogeneous on the second one. I mean, she has nearly flawless skin in the left side, too, so she would be a bad example of that. But you can imagine if someone has rough skin, throw a flash on it, and then suddenly they look clean in the site after photo and like, no, that was because of that, that, you know, lotion. They rubbed on them for themselves for four weeks. Probably not.
So that's another that's the lighting example I think we were all to come up with on the fly. So, you know, I'm going to stop this now and kind of go back to our conversation for us regular consumers at home, you know, these are great things to look for consistent backgrounds, consistent angles, lighting, to be aware of why do you think it is that more doctors aren't that doctors are a little bit, I don't want to say deceitful, but maybe not as transparent as they should be.
Yeah, And this is probably a this is a great question because it's almost like every in every industry, there's going to be somebody who's really not doing it right. I mean, I think I cannot believe that the brilliance of the people that I'm surrounded by in my field I mean my colleagues in facial plastic surgery and head neck surgery. I mean, they are some of the brightest people I've ever known and most dedicated to their patients.
You know, they really, really care about doing the right thing. So the problem is, you know, you're seeing the 1% extreme like we just talked about, the top 1% of Instagram accounts. Well, that's like basically the you know, they're off the bell curve. These are the people who are kind of like not falling within the realm of normal. So I don't necessarily know that it's pervasive in a way that's ubiquitous across plastic surgeons.
I just think that they're, of course, like in any industry, there are people who are going to be manipulative and maybe not not fully truth telling. And I think that's been amplified by social media because they have a place to put their content and it's not like it has to be believable. So now it's just about is it engaging or not? So the more dramatic the result, the more engaging it is, the more likes you get because then it gets pushed to other people's pages.
So they're getting rewarded for these the dramatic nature of the results, which is what our human brain loves to see. And and so yeah, so again, I don't I think those some of those doctors are just genuinely being deceitful. You know, people chase their dreams in different ways. And this is this is one way where it seems like it's probably being chased by some people.
But I don't think it's necessarily a problem with physicians or like the whole the whole of plastic surgery rather than, you know, maybe a warning bell, like, let's not let this become normal because it does not instills trust. I mean, one of the most you just said you've had surgery yourself. One of the most important things, probably the most important thing with the surgeon patient relationship is trust. You have to have trust.
So if you look at someone's Instagram and you don't believe it and you know that there's like a a history of that, you can tell, okay, they just do this. Well, that's not very trust inducing. So where's your radar on on the trust factor? I think that's important. And I think most of us know that because, you know, you can if you shoot up to the moon, you're going to get shot down.
But if you you know, if you're if you're a good plastic surgeon who does good work, who's truthful and honest, that's what gives you the longevity to survive and to have the meaningful relationships with patients that were. That is why I went into it, I think by most people might go into this job. Here's an interesting thought, too, because, you know, you said earlier before and I'd like you to restate that statistic, that what was it about the the percentage of.
Yeah. So the top this was not my study. This was I think I was saying it right. Vodka or vigor VCA at all. They did a study basically looking at the top performing plastic surgery accounts. So basically the accounts with the most followers and they found that 97% of those accounts had evidence that they were using tactics to manipulate the post-op photos that were lighting angles, makeup. Those are the three main ones, digital.
But digital alteration, like you and I were looking at a couple photos earlier where people had actually clearly, like just completely blurred out all irregularities in their in the skin. So those are the things that are being used by the top performing accounts. So which means that like that, the you know, the consumers, the people viewing them like that are most drawn to those types of images. And then these sorts of set up expectations that are not real.
Like if that's what you're seeing all the time, then you're like, Well, that's what I should get if I have my plastic surgery. And and that is why I'm kind of you and I are here to do to educate people. That is a disservice to everyone. I mean, there's nothing worse in than my cosmetic patient. I've you know, I've done a lot of surgery and been a doctor for 20
to a little 21 years now. But one of the worst things is a dissatisfied or disappointed patient, and you're just kind of setting people up for dissatisfaction when you are not setting their expectations properly. And I think that's what one of the risks of social media photos and all these altered images is.
You know, I guess the thing that surprises me the most, right, is is sure, I guess it's good to, you know, when you're scrolling on Instagram and you're like, wow, that's an incredible before and after. However, I most of the people that I've talked to in that I know, it seems like when they go to have any sort of work done, they're like, I don't want anybody to know. I want it to look as natural as possible. Now there's two schools of thought, right? I know. And the making of you know.
You can. Say that, right? So like on the West Coast, people want to look done. It's a badge of honor. But here on the East Coast, most people that I know are like, I want to do this. And I don't want I just I want to better, but I don't want to look done.
So it's interesting to me that those you know, I guess the photos that are getting the most attention are the ones that clearly have been manipulated and look like a more of a drastic before and after when I think in reality most people kind of want subtle but better.
That's a really tough one because I think there is a little bit of discourse or like dissonance with that concept because I think that's maybe one of the harder lines to walk as a surgeon is that people say they don't want anyone to notice, but they do want people, but they also want to look like nothing happened. So it's almost like just that. That in and of itself is a bit unrealistic, but it's a really comment, really, really comment.
Like, I want to look just like I look now, but it's like 20% better. But I don't want anyone to no notice. It's like, well, that is not you know, those things are not possible. So I think there is and you're absolutely right that on the East Coast I do my training, my fellowship training at UCLA out in Los Angeles and but I've been on the East Coast for most of my professional career, aside from that.
So in Washington, D.C., I think it might be even a little more conservative than New York and people really don't like anyone to know anything about what they've had done or cosmetic work. And it's really different in L.A., where it's almost like people are trying to look done. Some people, not everyone, but there's a little bit more of an acceptance of like, okay, yeah, I had this, this really expensive, like nice facelift. I look like I'm, you know, really different than I did before.
And I'm proud of it because it's part of the culture. So it is there are these micro cultures that are different in different areas. Yeah, for sure. You know, and I know I know this isn't surgical, but I heard once here's like an interesting tip and tell me if this is right. You know, going back to this idea of before and afters that the timing also matters. Right?
So we had somebody on here who did lip injections and she was like, you know, if you if I was looking for a lip injector somewhere, I would ask them to give me your before, give me your you're right after, which is a lot of the times when people aren't going to come back.
But she's like, if you can, you should ask them for the ones that are a couple of weeks later when the lips have settled, when they've actually like got into that is that the same thing with plastic surgeon is is it good to know about like time differences. Yeah, Yeah, definitely. That's one thing we didn't really talk about, but I did talk about it in my Psychology Today blog, which I think is how we started this conversation initially, which is that there is this trend with some people to do.
We call them on the table afters where you're doing a post up photo. It's particularly popular with rhinoplasty where you do the pre-op photo. Like while they're on the table, you do the post-op photo and the risk of that is that that has nothing, you know, not nothing to do with the final result. But that's clearly not the final result. When you are done operating on someone that is there's been zero healing. That's happened at that point. You can I've done it, you know, thousands of times.
I can tell you when you do a rhinoplasty, you can basically push the nose into whatever shape you want it to right on the table that doesn't mean that it's going to heal that way. So so that's a timing question. Now, the other side of that is also true that you need to really wait a period of time before you have a final result. Rhinoplasty is another good example. We kind of historically talk about a year. I think it's probably really honestly longer than that.
I mean, if you really wait for the full healing after rhinoplasty, it's probably a year and a half or two years. But that is not I mean, my patients are great. Like most of them will come back for one year, but not everyone does. You know, some people come for their their I usually do like one week, one month, three months in a year for my rhinoplasty. Some people will come out of a month or maybe they they me they come for the three month they're thrilled. Yeah.
No they're not going to come back. They're not going to come back. So I got to grab that photo before I never see them again. Sure. And and so, you know, but but just being full disclosure about that, like, this photo was taken at, you know, a week or and you can see this by the way, and pre and post up photos so you know someone has like bruising still they had a facelift in their videos and I'm like okay well that was very recent.
If you can see yellow or purple on their neck, then that's within the last 2 to 3 weeks. That's not a final result. I mean, I'll be just, you know, so I had a breast lift. I've talked about it on this podcast and and a small implant put inches to retain the size. And right afterwards it looked like somebody had stuck to coconuts, literally. And I was like, now, first of all, my surgeon was like, I'm not the guy. If you want big whatever. My whole thing is very natural, very subtle.
But that first. That when you have that, you're like, what? I was like, Well, I want my money back, you know? But I had done enough research to know that it takes time to fall and to settle. It could not be happier. I love my surgeon, he added. He's on the podcast. But but, but knowing these things and kind of going in and knowing this, you know, everybody who gets lip injections goes home and freaks out because your lips blow out.
I always tell people, if you go get any sort of facial filler and you love the way it looks, the next day, you didn't get enough. Exactly. Exactly. Because and then the flipside is true, though, because people are not willing to tolerate those, you know, like that week of the of the really fluffed face sometimes. So you got to kind of do it slowly. But I agree. Yes, absolutely. Like you could manipulate, I imagine you do your before and after. yeah.
This was right afterward like, well, of course you're you're really small in the way those fillers work, by the way, is they pull fluid in with them. So all the fillers are hydrophilic, meaning they the water loves them. And so so whenever you get a filler injected, you know, the filler syringes are pretty small. One CC of fluid, which is in what what's the most it's really tiny. So how do you get all this volume from one?
CC It's because there's fluid getting pulled in there with it and there's more happening in the immediate period and then it starts to settle out. So gosh, I feel like I could talk to you forever. I love that you were talking nerdy with us, you know, So with these things said it, you know, to any of the medical companies out there, I know that, you know, the Visio camera is pretty there's a camera to kind of measure sun damage and wrinkles.
I'm surprised that no other company has come out with sort of a standardized camera setup. But are there are there are. And you'll see them I mean, these are the people who are not manipulating their photos like they're which is I think is probably most most surgeons. I think most of the good ones are doing really controlled before and afters. And there are a couple systems that are you know, were do that very well. They really control the lighting and they controlled the angles.
It's a little hard sometimes it's actually getting better. One of my colleagues has a new software that's available which you can actually access and acquire the images over the phone from your iPhone. Like you can take the photo from all these different angles, and because it's essentially a three dimensional structure, then it doesn't really matter what you're doing where you're putting their head because it's going to be able to be reoriented and the before and afters.
And so so, yes, you are pointing out something that I think is is known and is definitely, you know, an issue that needs to be continued. So but in the meantime, I have to commend you on, you know, like I said, being brave enough to kind of show some of the older photos, to show things that, you know, for us to be on the lookout. Your work is beautiful. I will say that is so. And I just appreciate you coming on. Look, at the end of the day, it's important to trust your surgeon.
You know, I think that many surgeons out there and I'd like to say most surgeons out there want the best results for their patients. They want to show this. Maybe they're not trying to be deceitful, but if you as a consumer can be educated and know things to look for, certainly going to be helpful. Definitely. And what I'm going to look for after watching your beautiful face for the last hour is a new ring light because your area of your light is so nice. It's adjustable variable.
The newer I'll send you, I'm going to send you this link. Sent me the link. I'll send you the link. Amazon Newer. I gotcha in Doctor Riley. If people want to come and see you, if they're in the D.C. area, or maybe if they just want to travel to you, what's the best way to reach out to you and find you? Sure. So my website is Reilly, which is REILLY F P.S. like facial plastic surgeon dot com and there's a contact form on there. You fill it in and we'll we'll call you the next day.
Amazing. Thank you so much. And of course I will have all of his information in the show notes. Don't even worry if you missed that. I want to thank you so much for being with us today. And then, of course, at home, if you have questions you want me to pass on to Dr. Reilly If you're curious about some of this stuff, you can always reach out to me at Hello at Art Beauty podcast dot com.. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram and right here on YouTube @ArtBeautypodcast.
And as always, we will see you next Tuesday, hopefully feeling a little bit smarter and better able to decode some of those photos on Instagram by Right.