Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.
Armstrong and Jettie and he Armstrong and Eddy.
The way I look at artificial intelligence, it's both like it can be a threat for sure, and it can be a massive opportunity. What I don't understand is when I walk around this city or you talk to lawmakers, why.
People aren't obsessed with this.
It is going to reorder society over the next decade, and almost any person who studied it at any level has come to that exact same conclusion. I sometimes joke to Mikey and others that I feel like I'm living in a simulation where you see so clearly where the world's going over the next five years, and yet Washington pays very little attention to it.
Jim Vanda High is getting a lot of attention for a PC he wrote for Axios about a there's a big one in The New Yorker also in which they have two AI experts, one arguing it's going to change society more than anything ever has and very soon, and another expert arguing that now it's way, way, way over blown and any of the effects are years off, which I hope that that guy's right, although I tend to think the other guy's right, that it's happening sooner and gonna be a big deal.
I've been reading James vander Heys piece in which, among other things, he interviews Dario am a day. Is that how you're protesting? He's the CEO of Anthropic, one of the most powerful AI companies in the world, And it occurred to me the perfect metaphor. I don't know why I see the world in metaphors. I do, but it's as if.
Doctor Franklin, You're still seeing the world in metaphors, is like an ox needing something. It's like if doctor Frankenstein was designing his monster, but it was going to be like fifty feet tall. But doctor Frankenstein was perfectly sane and was saying, now, reanimating a corpse is going to be an incredible scientific breakthrough, but it could rampage down to and through the village and kill many, many people,
and we're really not sure which. So Igor, if you would fire up the lightning positron, please let's get this started anyway, Thank you, dear More with Jim Vanda high.
Just pay attention, get way more familiar with this technology. If you are about to be a graduate, figure out.
Are you in the right field. If you are in the right field.
How would you utilize this technology for it to be a force multiplier of the work that you do. How can you help it ten x, two x, whatever the number is your productivity, so that you can do but really creative interesting things. And I think if society prepares for it, if the company's for it, it doesn't have.
To be a massive upheaval.
Again, I hope he's right. I just I just don't know. It's it's not It's not like, you know, except the fact that the car is coming. Learn how to fix a car because nobody's gonna need horseshoes anymore, right me? You know, made sense, makes sense. I'm not sure if it works the way the you know, the the people on the extreme end of all the jobs AI can take, If they're right, there are gonna be so many millions
of people out of work. There's there's no like, well, I guess for your young pick a career that AI can enhance. But well, here's a be a lot of guessing involved in that. Let me set the table a little bit, then we can discuss. So, mister m Day and again, forgive me if I'm mispronouncing it. The CEO of Anthropic, talking to Jim Vanda Hay, has a blunt, scary warning for the US government and all of US.
AI could wipe out half of all entry level white collar jobs and spike on themloyment ten to twenty percent in the next one to five years. Five percent of jobs wiped out. Interesting noways you said.
Half ten half of all entry level white collar jobs and ten to twenty percent unemployment in general in the next one to five years. And Day said, AI. Companies and government need to stop sugarcoating what's coming. This is doctor Frankenstein standing there I'm picturing on the drawbridge of his moat saying to the villagers with the pitchforks and the torches breaks, guys, you gotta be ready in case the monster goes on a rampage.
Well, the first clip we played from Jim Vanahei makes the most well, it's not hard to explain, makes the most sense to me. How is this such a giant topic everywhere but in Washington, d C. I wonder if it has anything to do with the average person in any leadership position.
Being eighty years old.
I think so.
And also there are so many unknowns it's difficult to know what to do legislatively, particularly if, for instance, I don't know your legislature is utterly cowardly and afraid of doing anything lest they do the wrong thing, so they just let the executive branch do everything. But let me finish the thought. Emday said AI. Companies and government need to stop sugarcoating what's coming. I'm sorry, what's coming the possible mass elimination of jobs across technology, finance, law, consulting,
and other white collar professions, especially entry level gigs. I got a kid who just kicked buttoner first year of law school. I'm very proud of her. But we're gonna have a serious talk, and practical part of me doesn't want to say this on the air because I want as few people to come to this realization as possible. We're gonna have a serious talk about there's a very good chance you're either going to be the person eliminated by AI or you're going to be the person who's
become so adept at using it. You're the one out of a that is kept on to get good at this stuff.
That's exactly what bend Hi was saying. Accept the fact that it's going to be here, and figure out a way to.
Use AI. So you're one of the people that can continue to make a living.
Yeah, so, amide says he's speaking out in hopes of jarring government and fellow AI companies into preparing and protecting the nation. Hardly anyone is paying attention. Lawmakers don't get it or don't believe it. CEOs are afraid to talk about it. Many workers won't realize the risks posed by the possible job apocalypse until after it hits. And by the way, if you're a new Ish listener to the show, thank you for being here. First of all. Secondly, we're
not clickbait hyperbole. We try very hard to stay away from trying to scare you all the time or making you angry all the time. There are plenty of reasons to be scared and or angry. We just try not to go over the top. I don't think it's hyperbole at all. To you know, have the weight on the balls of your feet and your feet at shoulder position, leaning forward at the waist, getting ready for this could be very, very disruptive.
Well, I've read several of the long leading books on the topic, Life three point zero by Max Tegmark, which is fantastic, and then a newer one from Nick Bostrom, who wrote an AI book that got tons of attention several years ago. But this Deep Utopia book, which he gets really into. If it does what some people claim it's going to do, what the hell is mankind going to do? What is society going to be? How is humanity?
Even even if you come up with a way for people to have food and shelter, what do human beings become if they have they don't have to work. It's an experiment that's never been run before really, other than like the super rich.
And you see how they often end up up.
Give us the ten second version of your working on the song yesterday after this commercial or right now, no, right right now? Okay, So I'm ordering you to do anything, but I think it would fit in well, and then coming up after the commercial jack reference the hey don't worry, it's gonna be okay argument.
So I was working on this song yesterday, I'd come up with these lyrics in my head, and then I picked out a key I could sing in, some chord structure and stuff like that. The working title is Jo's an a Hole. But it's very tuneful, very nice.
I'd like to hear that song. But I thought, you know, I need a bridge for this song.
And I almost feel guilty for even having done this, but I thought it'd be kind of fun to see what it did. I went to chat GBT and I said, what's a good bridge for like a country style song? And it presented me like with five different options immediately, by the way of if you want something that's kind of uplifting, go with this. If you want something that is good for setting up a more poignant ending, go
with this. And it just gave me the chords in that give you all the chord structures for doing it. This is the most popular currently in like country pop, and it was. I mean, you wouldn't even know, you didn't know anything about.
Music to craft a song that way, So instead of experimenting and struggling and listening to it and trying to figure out how do I get back to the verse chords and that's a little uncomfortable, And then finally, after you know, minutes or hours of effort coming up with something you're proud of. No, the computer just told you what to do. How does that change songwriting? I've got to admit I heard that and thought, wow, that's cool tool. But I also thought, what the hell's the point? Right?
Yeah, that's what I felt like too. I haven't used one of them because I thought, do I want that? Do I want it to not be something? I came up with?
What am I doing here?
Right right?
Why don't I just go to the end write a song about this topic and then okay, now produce it?
Okay, now I'll listen to it. Well, that was fun. What am I doing coming up?
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So we'll have to get to the optimistic side of the AI thing next. But I just on the music thing, as you mentioned it.
Is what is the point art wise?
Certainly, Hemingway famously said a writer writes for himself and others. I mean, but you're doing it a lot for yourself. And the reason I sat down to craft a song yesterday, which I hadn't done in a long time, is I was in emotional turmoil about a certain thing, and all these thoughts were in my head and I just was
compelled to write a song about it. Well, if I have AI do it, doesn't that negate the whole artistic you know, getting your feelings out of you onto paper or music or painting or whatever.
Well, right, to summarize again, what are we doing here?
Exactly?
So if I was gonna have them write the bridge, well write the whole damn thing, write the lyrics, produce it, you know, tell me in five minutes what to listen to.
And I'll listen to it in a five seconds.
Five seconds.
Then I'll listen to it and think, well, now I feel like I've expunged my demons.
I'll get to go about my life.
What well?
Right?
And so the great conundrum is, okay AI is going to free us all up to become poets and songwriters, which the AI.
Will do so right, excellent point. And then there's also the what if it's way better than what I would have come up with, which it probably would be.
I'd say that's the material.
To me, Oh it is, but who wants that?
It's very discouraging to worry about it. The the positive optimistic argument is coming up in moments Stay with us, friends.
We're talking about AI, both Axios and The New Yorker. I now big pieces on the is this going to change in the world? Is in ways we can't even imagine? Maybe for the worse or is it not going to be that big a deal? I certainly don't know which I'm hoping for the latter.
Actually, well, and the guys who are designing all this stuff don't know either, which is no Harry back to my doctor Frankenstein metaphor. But I will say that the admitting the monster might rampage through the village and kill everybody, it's impossible that well, it's not impossible.
But obviously Google elon. All kinds of people think it's going to be a big deal.
Bill Gates.
They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars billions of dollars this because they think it's going to be that big a deal.
Rich Lowry in the National Review has expressed the counter argument that many of you find folks have expressed through the years and certainly worth considering. Rich writes, chat GPT is coming for your job. That's the fear about the rapid advances in intelligent artificial intelligence. They mentioned the headline
Naxios who warned of a white color bloodbath. CEO of Anthropic we've been quoting in the last segment told the publication AI could destroy up to half, well destroy half of all entry level white collar jobs in the next one to five years. That's like right around the corner, and drive the employment rate up to ten to twenty percent, or roughly great depression levels. This sounds dire, but we've
been here before. In the thirties, John Maynard Keynes thought that labor saving devices will quote out running the pace at which we can find new uses for labor. And let's thought the same thing in the sixties when John F. Kennedy warned that quote, the automation problem is as important as any we face, and in our era too. If a prediction has been consistently wrong, it doesn't necessarily mean
that it will forever be wrong. Still, we shouldn't have much confidence in the same alarmism repeated for the same reasons. That gives a few examples to push back.
A lot of people have and I hope it's absolutely holds true for AI. It has been true in the past, but God AI could reach into so many different areas of life at the same time.
A little murder.
Rich's argument, and then perhaps we'll counter it. If technological advance was really a net killer of jobs, the labor market should have been in decline since the invention of the wheel. Instead, we live in a time of technological marvels, and the unemployment rate is four point two percent. Rob At Consent of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation points out that the average unemployment rate in the US has not changed much over the last century, despite an increase
in productivity by almost ten times. Technology increases productivity, driving down costs and making it possible to invest and spend on other things, creating new jobs that replace the old. This is the process of society becoming wealthier, and it's why nations that innovate are better off than those who don't. Good powerful argument. The rise of personal computers collapsed the demand for typists and word processors. These positions were often
held by women. Did this decimate the economic prospects of women in America? No, they got different and frequently better jobs. It goes into some bookkeeping and accounting parallels. It's a good solid argument. The only thing I would throw it rich is and we've seen this in a lot of different aspects of the modern age. There are two questions,
two challenges, the amount of change and the pace of change. Right, And it could be that this, given the rapidity with twitch, it'll drown us all or beat us to that like Frankenstein's monster in my metaphor, It's gonna be so fast and so huge, the jarring adjustment period is going to be very ugly and volatile.
Yeah, we're pretty We're being pretty loose and fast with the term AI. Also, it's all about a gi artificial general intelligence, whether that happens or not. And I've read enough of these books to know there are people that think it will never happen. There are people that think we're twenty years away. There are people that think we're
five years away. But if artificial general intelligence happens, where computers are as smart as human beings, smarter than human beings, can learn everything instantly, then it's impossible anything that you come up with that human beings can do, that are that come off of the technological technological advancement, can also.
Be done by artificial and general intelligence.
Yeah, that's too much for a person like me to even contemplate. I can't. I'm stuck in the halfway between period where you know or eighty percent of lawyers will be replaced by a nap. That's going to be dislocating enough your thing. Please, I don't even want to think.
About agi happens. I can't imagine how that doesn't do them society.
But anyway, who knows.
Armstrong and Getty. So hey, before we get started, you ought to talk about what we were just talking about off the air. On the air, to whatever extent you can, you're good at that. I just at some point the theme being people are way crazier than you are told as a kid. As a kid, you think, you know, grown ups have it more or less buttoned up, and they can at least perceive reality.
A lot of people cannot. They live in a world of delusion. Especially. I never thought when I was younger that rich, smart people could be this dumb.
Right, Okay, well, too good? You have a particular skill set that makes you a lot of money. That doesn't mean you have generalized intelligence or wisdom, and its correct you.
I will tell that story, uh in a little bit.
But first, executive producer Mike Hanson, who rarely comes on the air, why are you here?
Hanson? I was inspired really by our AI conversation.
Yeah, I mean, you guys are talking about trying to form up a song, and I see I've been picking up my guitar more lately as well. I don't really concern myself with a lot of you know, song structure in the bridge and I just kind of fiddle around.
But I bang around. I make a lot of a lot of noise. But I was inspired.
So I turned my AI tool, thinking I should craft a tune this morning. Uh So I quickly jotted down some lyrics and I wrote all the lyrics on this. I didn't ask you to help me. I wrote them in about twenty twenty seconds.
Way to put in the time.
Well, and a lot of great songs inspired. I was inspired. I mean, come on, don't tell me about my art.
This was my art.
So way he came up with a song.
He gets up every morning, he's dedicated to his craft, his hall mark, his fairness, and everyone loves to hear him.
Leader.
He's a master of metaphorm and a one of hurd smith.
Tell me why not.
He's got kind of a but don't ask him.
To work to harm cause of leisure.
He's the king.
Jokey Joe Gay, that was awesome.
This is my kind of music, dud Joe Getty, phone up with the light on you god swaying back and forth.
This is the sort of song that was on he Haw or the Glenn Campbell Show every Saturday night when I was a kid.
Or if you're an alt country nineties guy like me, it was just revd up a little bit and the electric guitars and yeah, I love that music because of leisure. The King. I am a man who craves leisure. Yes, as I've made clear through the years.
Oh my god. The fact that you can do that and like, how long did it take you total? I'm telling you it was twenty seconds.
That is amazing, amusing and horrifying.
Yeah, there are people that used to make six figure salaries back when that really meant something doing that for radio shows back in the day.
Oh never mind, the just doing that right.
Yeah, So I gotta put together at Rush.
Limbaugh, you know, the famous song parodies and stuff everybody enjoyed. Yeah, go ahead, And as I got to.
Put together a Jack song now too, I've got some ideas. Something comes to the top of your mind right now, just to spit it out, and I'll try to incorporate that into my belligerents.
Maybe we can, maybe we can take suggestions from listening.
I like that.
Let's open the text line. In fact, let's take live calls. Okay, So you work on that and we'll get to that maybe an hour or four. So back to my story. I was looking at the Twitter feed and the TV and everything like that, and I expressed to Joe during the commercial break, I don't quite get the hatred for Elon Musk at you looking at a friend of ours and his tweet.
I don't get the hatred for Elon Musk.
I can fully understand, like if you think Doge didn't do enough, or you thought these cuts were.
Wrong or whatever it is.
But I don't get the like, you know, deep hatred for him or whatever. But I do know a couple that's leaving the country, the whole family there are children involved. They're leaving the country because they don't want to live in Trump and Elon's America.
And what.
The straw that broke the camel's back was Elon's Nazi salute when at that convention or whatever he did, whatever he said.
When the autistic fellow waved at the crowd and his arm was out like that for a fraction of a second. Yes that they they have believed and internalized that that was an actual Nazi salute, and Nazism is coming to America Idazi.
I didn't have the first hand conversation with him, but I've talked to the person that did, and yes, they can't believe that. You don't realize that was obviously a Nazi salute.
To me, dot I would like to hear more. And therefore, Crystal Knoch is coming. It's the left that's abusing Jews. But anyway, back to you.
Right, I think that's so dumb. I can't even it's hard to even engage in conversation. This is a very wealthy couple, by the way, incredibly successful, both of them, like really successful, and I don't what.
Do you do with that? How could you possibly think that.
I would like to spend the rest of my life studying in between long periods of leisure, obviously, but studying the relationship and lack of relationship between intelligence, skill at a particular skill set, and the concept of wisdom, because they can be completely unrelated. I mean, we have all known. I mean the classic exam, I guess would be the brilliant, brilliant musician who is just unspeakably talented.
But these people are.
Replaced by AI but cannot manage their life at all and dies a drug addiction and is miserable.
And I understand anybody in the world of arn't more being that way as a musician or whatever.
It's so different.
But these are like business people, one scientist adjacent, the other one just flat out business person, like, like.
So successful, and I just I can't.
So you think Elon is secretly a Nazi and slipped, or you think that was the signal to start something, or I can't even imagine what the what the scenario would be.
Yeah, yeah, I find this so interesting.
And you would pick up your family and move across the ocean.
Because of it?
Yeah, yeah, nuts.
You're nuts.
On the other hand, you told me where they're going and it's a pleasant place. Yeah, yeah, that's again. I have a million comments. I just I'm so blown away. And it takes money to indulge that sort of media. I mean, that's part of it, because Joe Schmoe, you know, struggling to get by and his wife and two little kids might want desperately to go to Uruguay, for instance, where I've been convinced if I ever go somewhere, that's where I'm going. You're sure, No, I'm half, I'm like
sixty percent sure. But I was hearing about how interesting a country that is in a little more American terms of freedom and that sort of thing than sometimes America. But you can only indulge that impulse if you've got a hell of a lot of money or you're willing to live extremely modestly. So anyway, that's why celebrities are always doing it or talking about doing it, because they can. Well.
In this family, I assume is surrounded by people that say I understand, or that's a good idea, or we're going to do.
That too, which is so crazy.
Yeah, I am so fascinating by the idea of getting in of understanding how other people's psyches work, which you know, you never can fully But the sort of person who processes all of the inputs of life, everything they see, they hear, they perceive through an emotional lens, and then they structure it quote unquote logically to make it sound like it makes sense. But it's all emotionalism, and you can't talk them away. It's like the classic example is
I don't care what you say. That's what I believe you're stating. Wait a minute, I have presented rock solid, irrefutable evidence to your conclusion being wrong, but you are shouting at me that you have no interest in it. That sort of person's psyche operates way differently than mine, for instance, and I think my way is better, but they probably think exactly the same thing. I just don't want them in charge of anything. So I've said a million times I love songwriters and poets and dreamers. We
would be lost without them. I don't want them in charge.
I was wondering the other day if anybody has recently set the record for doing backflips while on fire. Good news on that front, and maybe that song about me an hour four or soon?
And what else? Plus coming up, let's meet some of the young Columbia Radicals. You're in court the other day.
Oh boy, I have a guess.
I was freezing.
I am wearing a couple of layers that are soaked in a jail. I'm putt in a fridge for twenty four hours, so it helped protect me from the fire that I'm on fire. So we're seven seconds in. I've done two backflips, so I'm on good trot to beat the previous record, and I need to move quickly. The oxygen's burning up around me. If I don't keep moving, I could find it very difficult to breathe on find the heat a bit too overwhelming. There are parts that
are actually falling off what I'm wearing on burning. My successful record title was seven bock flips in thirty seconds while engaging in a full body burn. It's incredible what humans can achieve.
All right, So there's a British man who has set the new record for doing backflips while on fire.
Sounded irish to me, but back to you, all right, another backflipping on fire news.
Wait a minute, there isn't any Well.
What's the record for doing backflips while on fire? If you're if you have red hair, so I don't know if you follow this.
A group of Kafia clad students to send it on Manhattan Criminal Court on Wednesday to face formal arrangement arraignment for their roles in the violent takeover of Columbia Universe these Butler Library. You remember the video at the time, the damage, the injuries, the they're demanding that the charges be dismissed because they're peace activists and they set up
a mere teaching in the library. You may also recall that they the mob injured to security officials, damaged bookshelves, distributed pamphlets praising Hamas, and renamed the library after a terrorist. They were led by the Columbia University Apartheid divest a notorious anti Semitic group. It wants the Ivy League school to cut all ties with Israel in chance. We want investment devestment now, among other things like globalize the Intafada,
which means killed Jews wherever you find them. So who are these global cream of the cream of the crop of American youth yesterday?
Globalized the Intafada is exactly what that guy chanted after he killed those two nice people who worked at the embassy.
Including one of whom was a Christian. Yes, yes, globalized the Intafada. Indeed, So who are these brave, angry revolutionaries rising up from the gutter to challenge the man jack. Let's meet some of them, like Emma Biswus, who grew up in a life of luxury. She led the robotics team at the Harker School, which bills itself as one of the nation's top college prep schools and tuition can reach sixty five thousand dollars a year. Wow, that's right
for a high school. While there, she interned with a biotech company that boasts prospective Nobel Prize winners work here, and until she left for Tony Barnard College, Biswus lived in the San Francisco Bay area in a mansion.
Worth six million dollars. Moving along, That's amazing how often that's the case.
Interestingly, her dad is with a tech company that does a lot of defense work, including with Israel. But let's not get hung up on that.
The rich kids that don't have a purpose because everything has been handed to them, they need to achieve something. Falling gave it away, fall into these ideologies so easy.
But miss Biswuss was just one of eight Barnard and Columbia students who attended swanking, prestigious private schools and were charged with criminal trespassing, among other things. Although there was Barnard's student Luna Firefly Deerfield cumming Shaw.
How many names is enough?
Sweetheart? Wow? Luna Firefly Deerfield cumming Shaw the granddaughter of Mark Shaw, who describes himself as John F. Kennedy's unofficial family photographer, stabbed, snapped many many celebrities, and her grandmother is an actress best known for a role in Some Show Anyway. Cumming Shaw attended the Putney School in Vermont, which charges day students fifty thousand dollars a year and
boarding students over eighty thousand. Despite the price, it advertises itself as a progressive school that considers the inclusivity a fundamental principle of the school, its sports two committees dedicated to the cause, allowing it to remain in the forefront of the drive for racial justice. Her mother is a long time left wing activists Bernard Alum and Bernie Sanders supporter.
Before Marisol Rojas Cheetham was arrested, The Columbia pre law student grow up in a Berkeley California home value to two million dollars, which, honestly, in Berkeley, isn't that fancy and attended the Bentley School, where tuition reaches nearly sixty
thousand dollars a year according to your LinkedIn page. Rojas Cheetham was the captain of the varsity women's soccer team, played lacrosse, president of the student government, to name a few of her extra curriculars on Bentley's sprawling twelve acre upper school campus.
To Patty Hurst, if you're old enough to remember, oh yeah.
There is something to that.
The whole your life has been you know, the pathway has been paid for you.
It's going to be too easy.
You've got no feeling of accomplishment or making a difference in the world, because you know, you could go to the fancy school and then immediately show up at a job making a lot of money. It was handed to you, and you just don't feel like you've done any thing, so you fall for these ideologies. I think there's got to be something to do. Ohsama, bin Laden was that?
Yeah? Yeah, A couple more, just to make the point. Columbia grad student Ava ambrose Ta Muscula e Garcia seventy eight thousand dollars boarding school or parents. Both professors at the University of Notre Dame accomplished in their fields as a novelist and an artist. Sophia Elizabeth Jones spent eleven years living overseas at the American Community School in ab Dabi.
Honors student identifies as American with Indonesian and Canadian roots to Barnard's Class twenty twenty seven, writes frequently about the Palestinian issues for a Columbia student website. Then you got Barnard student Dima Abat cozm honored guest at Mayor Eric Adams Abate Hate Summit last July, a graduate of the prestigious McDuffie School in Massachusetts, where annual boarding tuition exceeds
seventy five thousand dollars, another multimillion dollar mansion. All of these very rich young women, yeah, and completely radicalized.
The percentage of these angry cafia wearing hate spewing nut jobs who are wealthy women, young women is astounding.
They have no purpose in their life.
Well, and I'm sure that you know the teachers are teaching them all to hate America and Israel and everything. Also and if it's a boarding school, then you're really surrounded. I mean you're immersed in it.
And then you add to that young women's tendency to really crave belonging in approval of their peers, and if approval of their peers is dependent upon adopting this radical ideology, you get it in spades. It really is amazing. Look in the picture of these very very rich girls trying to achieve a bo ho radical look and the rest of it oldest time.
Wow, you spend all that money sending your kid to school and they end up nut jobs.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, we have a blockbuster hour four coming up. If you don't get our four or you've got to go off and do something, that's fine, just grab it later via podcast. You should subscribe to Armstrong and Getty on demand and listen to it whenever you like.
Yeah, that's pretty cool at your own leisure. You're a man who craves leisure. As the song says, yes, we got a big hour four coming, I hope you can enjoy them.
Armstrong and Getty