Let's put all of that out there as well, so we can pass judgment about how the how the investigation was conducted, or at least the predicate for the investigation was conducted during the Obama year, right. Going to one of the more interesting aspects of this, the whole Steel dossier, the Carter Page warrant and the rest of it, that's going to be one of those topics we hit at
greater length tomorrow. I suspect but a gentleman who worked with Marco Rubio, who we just heard, Lanhachen, the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with lanha Chen, also the David and Diane Stephy Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the director of Domestic Policy Studies and Lecture in the Public Policy Program at Stanford University, joins us now loan here. How are you, sir, Joe? Good morning, How are you terrific? Thanks? It's a it's an really really
interesting day on so many levels. What have you found yourself thinking about most in the last forty eight hours or so with the Muller report out, at least in summary form. Well, it's interesting because I think, on the one hand, it didn't really change the dialogue of either side. You know, the Democrats all along have been banking on
this investigation. You'll notice that they have expanded the field of their discussion to say any investigation of the president that in some ways it almost didn't matter what was in the Mulla report, because they have now expanded the field beyond just the allegations of Russian collusion to say, essentially,
look at all these misdiefs the presidents engaging. And then of course, for conservatives and those who support President Trump, it's a it's a vindication of what they've been saying all along regarding the president's alleged collusion with the Russians.
So it's funny. Yes, it is a big deal, and I think it is clearly a huge victory for the president, but it does not, in my mind, change the political dialogue that we're in, this really toxic cycle where Democrats and progressives believe what they believe in Republicans and supports of the president believe what they believe, and that's not going to change. Tell me if I'm wrong on this, because you could be right, and in a way I hope you're right, because I would prefer frankly that the
Republicans win the next midterm. I don't hide my my political leanings. On the other hand, I think it'd be insane if the Democrats continued down this road, because the strategy might not have changed. But it's like I'm watching a football game and and they said, we're gonna come out and throw the ball. Well, now the winds blowing at sixty miles per hour. And by that I mean the American people have become very, very cynical about investigations in general. Is has made clear by the poll that
came out last week. I think it was before the results of the Muller investigation even came out. You have fifty saying yeah, this is a witch hunt. I mean, if you continue to throw a ball in the face of that sixty wind, I think you're crazy. You. I think you're right, Joe. But I think what the challenges for the Democrats is this, they have a progressive base that is increasingly becoming influential in in how the Democratic mainstream thing, and and those folks I'm talking about Bernie
Sanders and Alexandriacagio Cortez, etcetera. These folks are going to continue with that same strategy visavi the president. So they're not going to change, and they're gonna place tremendous pressure on those who might want to take a more moderate line. Let's say, someone like Joe Biden or even Nancy Pelosi, who wants to say, look, let's focus on ways in which the Trump administration might not be serving the American people. Whatever the line they want to take is, those folks
are going to be outshouted by the progressive left. And I think the progressive left would love to continue to go after President Trump. And and it doesn't matter what the Mulla report says. I mean, they've been laying the groundwork for this for the last week. They've said, look, the Mulla Report is fine, we want to First of all, they're at the same they want to see the whole report.
And second of all, they're saying, you know, regardless of what happens in the report, you've got all sorts of different pending investigations in the Southern District of New York, etcetera. So I don't imagine Joe the strategy is going to change a whole lot for many Democrats. But I would hope um for the same. The political competitiveness that they
would take a different line. So, Lanie, if you were in charge then of White House messaging, and I think that would be a huge step forward if you were, UM. But if you were in charge, what other than obviously there is no collusion, what themes would you really hammer in the coming weeks and in a few months, UM, in contrast to what you just described, well, I would I would come back to this basic point, which is that the that the fundamentals of the economy at this
point looked looked pretty good. Americans by and large are doing well, which is not to say that there aren't any problems. President Trump's policies have been UM, have been
relatively positive for many Americans. I would focus on how the administration is trying to do what it can to improve the lives of Americans while Democrats are busy, uh, perpetuating this witch hunt that even Bob Mueller, even somebody that they had said was it was a neutral arbiter of the fact, even he has said that there was nothing there. And yet they continue to be obsessed with Trump.
While they're obsessed with Trump, Trump is obsessed with helping the American people, and and that's the message I would come back to. I imagine that they're going to spend a couple of days, by the way, because the president will want to take a victory lap on this, and I do hope they move beyond that to to begin to address the substance, because I do think the President's got a case to run for re election on that's
pretty solid. Right Well, Listen, I may be asking a horse to play the clarinet here, but I've got to believe if in the last month of the campaign, Trump could adopt a Listen, I know I rub a lot of people the wrong way. It's just it's me and and I don't I'm sorry about that, but I really care about this country above If he could be a little self, if facing a little I understand, I piss
you people off. I understand I'm a tough guy to take, you know, Assuming that there are no giant historic changes as to what's going on in the country, I could see that being really, really effective. Yeah, And I think he could. He could do quite well. I mean I think he could. Um, he could win more states than he did in sixteen even and and a larger percentage of the of the popular vote. I would also say, you know that the one thing, just to go back
to the short term impact of this report. There's been a lot of talk, you know, amongst the media, especially about, you know, will there be a Republican challenger to the president. I think the outcome of the Mulla report all but guarantees there will not be a serious challenge to the president from within the Republican party. So he's gonna be running unopposed or as the Democrat. We're going to have
a blood bath here over the next six months. Lani Chen is the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with Lanha Chen. Do you have any thoughts on the question of obstruction of justice? I thought that was really interesting to me. The Special Council said, yeah, there's stuff that looks like it, but there's stuff that makes it look like probably not, and there wasn't an underlying crime, So just done. I'll know. I mean, that's more or less
what he said. Yeah, I mean what it was interesting us The line obviously that opponents of the president are seizing on to say that that the Special Council wasn't able to exonerate the president of the charge of obstruction. There's two things to bear in mind here. One is the Special Council makes the point, according to the Attorney General's letter, that everything the president had done potentially that could make up an obstruction charge was done in public.
So it's not like there's anything secretive or furtive that's going on here. If you believe what the president did made out a case for obstruction, everything he did was in public. That's the first point. The second point is, look, it's up to the charging authority in this case, the Attorney General, to determine whether whether the accumulated evidence makes up a charge of obstruction, and and and so I think the Special Council felt, look, we we certainly don't
have enough to pass judgment. The Attorney General felt that that he and his team didn't have enough to pass judgment, and and and so I think this is one of those things where, to the extent there is any political wiggle room for the Democrats to argue the Mueller report was full to Trump, they're going to seize on this point. But this point is such a specific point of law that I don't think they're going to have a very very good time trying to actually make headway out of
this one. And if a political fodder. To be sure, would you agree with me that I posited earlier in the show that Donald J. Trump, real estate magnate, simply took too much of his management playbook into the Oval office with him and saying, look, this project is dead. It's it's stupid, like for instance, the Flynn investigation or the Russia collusion investigation. He was being a ceo saying, you know this, this hotel is never gonna make money.
We gotta close it. It's dumb, and which is fine as a real estate magnate, but as president, it looks like obstruction of justice. I think that's probably what happened. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I think that there are a lot of things about First of all, nobody's prepared to be president on day one. I don't care how many jobs you've had before that might qualify you.
And and added at the fact that you know, Donald Trump came out of a private sector culture that's pretty different from a political culture, from from being a politician before. So yeah, I think there was a learning curve. I think the way that he conducted himself probably was very similar to how he conducted himself in the private sector. So I think you're absolutely right on that account, and
I and I do think that. Again, the Special counsel by by saying essentially, look, if you wanted to claim obstruction obstruction of justice, there is nothing else you need to know, or there's nothing else you need to look at than what he did publicly, you can decide that. In my mind, the President can certainly use to his favor because he can say, look, the only thing they're alleging is stuff that's out of the open. So you you'd be the judge if you think this was what
it was. But I think you're absolutely right. It goes back to his conduct as a businessman, and I think a lot of people would say, yeah, I mean as a businessman, I completely understand that. Now as president of standards different, but um, you know, I don't think it's enough to to to create a debt in Trump's armor going forward. What's crossing lines with lanh Chen going to be about this week? Well, we haven't done an episode
a little while, in part because I've been on vacation. Uh, we are gonna we are going to spend back up. I've got a couple of guests in the hopper for the coming week. Some I'm working on the on on economic policy. Some I'm talking a little bit about the future of the healthcare debate. But this week we're gonna do something on Mueller. Have to figure out who the guests is gonna be. But but but hopefully it'll be something good and we'll have that episode out by the
end of the week. I think, well, if you run out of actual smart people to talk to, we'll talk to you. But anyway, that would be fun. We have to do that sometimes, we really do. That'd be a lot of fun. We'd be delighted. Absolutely, it would be an honor. Lana ch Chen is the host of the podcast Crossing the Lines. Lani chen Fellow with the Hoover Institution, heads up the domestic Policy department at Stanford. Lani, it's always a pleasure. Thanks a million, thanks to a good day.
You got it? Uh so, yeah, I just it's funny. I'm so much more into governance than politics. Jack's usually the guy who really really wants to talk about the politics of the stuff. But I'm telling you, just going forward the whole we've got to investigate. I just think the the amount of eye rolling on the right and in the Center over that very idea is well, I think it's gonna be overwhelming. And listen, I'm not saying
it's completely nuts. If you can uncover the fact that you know, Donald Trump actually was the guy who committed the Son of Sam murders in the eighties or something like that, I mean, well that was the seventies, I guess, But I mean, go ahead, I suppose because that would hurt the hell out of him in the election. But I just I don't love your chances and coming up with something like that, and you got fifty of Americans at least thinking it's all witch Huntissa, Well, good luck,
Adam Schiff. You're listening to the Armstrong and Getty Show.