Shutdown Goal: Make the Other Side Look Bad. Debra J. Saunders on Armstrong & Getty

correspondent for the Las Vegas Review Journal. Deb Saunders, Hey, Deb Hi, how are you doing excellent among our hairbrain theories this morning? From twirling the dial and listening to everything from MSNBC to CNN to UH, I almost had PBR. I almost. I always say PBR when I'm thinking NPR HAPs blue Root, I think perhaps I have a problem. Um. But anyway, on even on PBR, they're talking about how both sides in this shutdown are really not not acquitting

themselves very well. They're finding fall with the Democrats, with Nancy Pelosi on MSNBC. It sounds to me like the pressure might be building to get together and actually negotiate. Is that a hair brain theory or what? I don't think it's a hair brain theory at all, And it's I mean, the truth is what the White House has been doing and what Democrats have been doing in Congress is all they care about is making the other guys look bad. They're not. They haven't been trying to kind

of deal on either side. So uh, and the deal is the only way that this ends is that when Republicans feel they have to do it, in Democrats feel they have to do it. If one side thinks they're going to get something more out of it, they'll find a way to let it go on. And uh, you know,

it's not good for the economy. It's not fair to people to ask them to work without pay for for a month plus and um so so yeah, I think that I think that there should be if if I'm listening to you and I want this to end, I call it my congress person, my senator, whatever party, and say end it, because that's the only way it happened. Well, the Washington Post editorial board said, hey, Democrats, he threw something out, you gotta throw something back. You can't just

reject it. So you know that's their cheerleading squad there. Um, this is unrelated to anything. How empty is the White House? I heard Trump talking to the other day about he's just he's I'm here all alone. I was here alone over over the holiday, and I'm just walking around in this big empty building. Is it? Is it actually like that? Yeah?

I mean so. So the briefing room, Uh, if you when you when you see the podium where Sarah Sanders used to come out and give daily briefings, and then you'd see there was a door if you're looking at it to or left behind, that is the lower Press area and and and then you can walk through the malls and you get to the upper Press area or Sara Sanders offices, and and there are a lot of people who work in that area who are not there now. They don't let the press wander all over the White House.

So unless you're doing pool and you're brought into an event, that's what you're seeing. But it's it's pretty quiet there. You know, there's a government shutdown in it's effecting the White House as well, so but it's only partially so I don't I don't get it. Well. I mean, you're obviously a press person there every day, but you're just not seeing as many people there, and it's just it's

quieter and in Washington's quieter. I mean, the commute's great, really, So it's it's it's it's not noticeable in my life at all, I mean at all the most Americans or practical leaning American. But for you and d C, it's very evident. Well, look at its ent of the government is shut down, and if you have like a seven percent change in the in the community really changes the ture. That just this is the longest and that's some good

urban planning knowledge too, that this is the longest shutdown. Now, the second longest shutdown was in ninety six and the White House was empty and Bill Clinton was wandering around and and spotted a young intern with a song, and that whole thing started because he was bored and walking around in an empty White House. I just thought that was interesting. Trump talking about that the other day. It's

just I'm the only one here. Well, And of course his family went out um to Florida tomorrow ago most of it, I mean, uh, Melani did come back, and they did go to a lock in the middle of this, and they were traveling. But it's just and you know that you have to understand about this White House is they take any excuse to not share information with you. So you've noticed we're not really seeing a whole lot

of briefings. And today Trump tweeted that he told Sarah Sanders not to do them because press are don't treat

it well. But also, I mean we've seen this every time something happens, like during the mid terms, when Trump's out campaigning, they they've had this way of sort of whittling everything back so that there wouldn't be as many briefings and they wouldn't talk to the press as much, and that keeps that's happening more and more, and so what you're getting is sort of these ad hoc press conferences.

I mean, we don't have Sarah Sanders doing briefings. We have Donald Trump when he feels like it, talking to the press that they're called pool sprays when the pool comes in and he talked to them, or you know, he'll be going out to Marine one and he starts talking, and that's that's where we're getting our information. I'm highly uncomfortable with the lack of transparency, which is increased administration after administration over the last twenty years, and and and

it's not going to come back. Whoever is in their next, it's not coming back. That makes sense. Hey, how crazy was the twenty four hour period between Thursday night when the BuzzFeed story hit and Friday night when Muller knocked it down. How crazy was that twenty four hours? Well, you know, um, I mean, being from the school of oh, I don't think I have to react to us story from buzz scene that's based on too uh anonymous sources. It didn't affect my life a whole lot a lot.

There are people who really obviously we're going crazy over it and social media whatnot. So a lot of other people, I just uh, I just try to have better, you know better, I try to source things better. There's enough real note news going on here that we don't have to jump on every story that comes out that's based especially on unknown sources. So I mean, look at I mean, we had we've had to shutdown uh you know, of course tumpted this a thing Saturday more shut it down.

But there's so much going on right now that why would you bother you know, sort of ripping up the pages for that. Right. Well, we're sure you have Catholic schoolboys to shame there in the swamp, but a couple more questions. Uh, we thought, we kind of thought impeachment fever would be running high during that period between the

BuzzFeed news story and the Muller statement. I mean, there had to be some buzz well you know if you say that, But I think it was Axis that came out with a story where they talked to the freshman Democrats and it's a very small number that want to really push for impeachment right now. So during that twenty four hours, you're right, if you turned on CNN or you watched MSNBC that you keep hearing. If true, right,

then we have to impeach Trump. And that did get that fever upgoing, but then of course it got shot down and and and I think a lot of Democrats understand that if they just rushed through impeachment without having seen Robert Mueller's report Special Council's report, they look sort of rapid. And of course, let's let's get to the really important thing, which is it's not they're not going to get rid of Trump because the Senate bollowing some

new information that we haven't seen. But there's no way in the world with Senate would convict him. We don't even know that the impeachment would pass. So so it's like how much and and and look at what you know, I was talking earlier about the shutdown. Nobody cares about cutting a deal. They just want to make the other side look bad. And that's the impeachment story too. I mean, you really have these people who really they can't stand Donald Trump uh and they want they want him out

and they nothing will get in their way. But it doesn't really help the party because you're not going to get what you want. Deborah J. Saunders, White House correspondent, Las Vegas Review Journal is on the line. You know, Devid just struck me. My my daughter is going to college, like right in your neighborhood someday, Can I buy you guys lunch and have her I love her having her meat. You know, smart women who've who have done stuff in the world. So and you're definitely on that list as

a smart woman who's done stuff. There you go, right, where're you going? In brief, I'm not going to say that on the air, Okay, Okay, it's it's a small cobbler's school in uh Capitol Hill area. She repair underappreciating in the modern worm, all right, we'll talk soon. Dep. Saunders, thank you, all right. Yeah, So I'll throw this in while we're on the topic. The cover of The Atlantic got a lot of attention, and this happened before the

BuzzFeed story came out. A lengthy and much discussed article by Yannie apple Bomb. Do you still get The Atlantic? Have you read this? Propos proposes that Congress immediately begin impeachment precedings against President Trump for being unfit for office and evincing little respect for the rule of law, regardless of whether or not he's committed any crimes. Yeah, I

I and I thought, wow, Okay. Alan Alan Dershwitz Harvard Law, who is a Clinton supporter and doesn't like Trump, but has been in the weird position of standing up for for liberal ideals UH points out to The Hill. The Framers explicitly rejected those criteria for impeachment that is, being unfit for office and demanded that high constitutional threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors be met. In fact, as apple

Bomb's criteria could be applied to any president. But he also spending on your point of view, yes, and he also suggested even if it fails, impeachment would be the best way to run out the clock on it in administration. If that became an idiotic idea much an approach, says Dershwitz, would only encourage wrongful weaponization of impeachment as a partisan political tactic to be deployed by both parties. That's it's like killing a hobo for the purpose of distracting people from,

you know something else. That's a that what what are you insane? You know, it's funny. I didn't get to that part of the article. I started into it, and it was clear to me it was just a stew of kind of Alec Baldwin esque opinion and so kind of your your MSNBC round table, no regard for the

rule law. So that may be true. But so they're making the serious argument that to save the nation, because Donald Trump is so destroying our country, yes, we'd be better to lock it be locked in an impeachment battle until the next election, just to run out the clock. Well, that wouldn't come back to haunt you at all. Well, right,

you know, and and and here's a better metaphor. You and your your spouse are arguing, and you set a fire to distract from the the argument yeah, what happens the next argument she sets a fire and then after that you're gonna torch the sofa. Oh great, idea, super or she won't be able to make a point if you know, her bedroom burning. But you gotta you admit, that's a serious magazine with serious people who read it and write it. Yeah, it's not you know, it's not

a bomb chucking show. No, it is not a buzz fee for instance, or a slate or a huff po. On the other hand, you know, sometimes there's stuff has impact, sometimes it doesn't. And it's a perfect example. And we're gonna be talking about one of our favorite journalists about this later, but um, it's a perfect example of desperation in the media leading them to you know, really prostitute themselves.