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our part. We came across an unbelievable piece of journalism recently, and it is in a student newspaper, the California Aggie, the school newspaper for the University California Davis, written by a young man named Nick Irvin, about a professor who's openly advocating for the murder of police officers. So happy to see it in the Sacramento b today, as we talked about it yesterday on the Armstrong and Getty Show.
Their headline, you see Davis condemns professor's cops remark, one would hope let's talk to the the gent who who wrote the story broke the news that everybody's talking about. Nick Irvin is a senior at the University of California, Davis, UM and the associate opinion editor at California Aggie. Uh. Nick, Hey, thanks for sparing us the time. You've gotta be kind of busy these days. Huh yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's a lot of attention after the story came out. So
I'm happy you guys invited me. Oh yeah, well it's our pleasure. So, um, how did you first become aware that there is a professor saying that you should murder police. It's good to murder police. So I heard about this, uh you know around November. Um, there were people in the news room who had taken his class. Uh. And and what is he teachings? He teaches He's a professor of English and comparative literature. Okay, well you can understand how shooting cops would come up in an English class.
Go on, Well, yeah, and so he and so his uh you know, political views were known. Um, but I didn't really have anything concrete. I you know, the the what I heard bothered me. But it wasn't until the shooting of Davis police officer Natalie Corona that I really sat down and wanted to investigate the story. Right, I get that as that horrifying killing of that beautiful young woman occurred, you know, just you know, within spitting distance
the campus. Although I have to say so that shows where we are with the the view of college campuses. If you hear rumors that there's a professor advocating shooting police before a cop gets shot in your own town, you just think, well, that's not surprising, you know what the way professors are these days. I mean, that's how far down the road we are. It's crazy, that's insane. So anyway, so you sought to figure out if the
rumors were true, Um, and what do you do? So I looked at this Twitter, and I listened to help on colleague to look online for any of these statement and I found a couple of his old tweets, and I also found a published interview online um that was published in that that said word for word that cops need to be killed. I'll I have them in front of me. Uh. The tweets This is a tweet from I am thankful that every living cop will one day be dead, some by their own hands, some by others.
Too many of old age hashtag let's not make more and that tweet was still up in en when you went to look for it. That's right. Knowing what I know about people who have had their Twitter accounts shut down, we've had to delete tweets, it's pretty amazing that that can stay up on Twitter. Another tweet, I mean it's
easier to shoot cops when their backs are turned. No, and also an SF Weekly interview in asking him what he believed was wrong with society, he replied, people think that cops need to be reformed, they need to be killed. How does that live on Twitter? Everything is so crazy. You can say those things in the classroom just kind of doesn't really get any attention. It lives out there on Twitter for all these years. Nobody really pays any
attention or Twitter doesn't care. I guess the algorithms missed it. But anyway, you're a journalistic. Quest continued, and you actually sought out that Marxist professor. How that go? That's right? So I emailed him three times, um with all the
information I wanted. I want to know exactly what he meant by these, you know, although I could, you know, tell what he meant, but I still wanted his you know, his own words, and I want to speak to them about this, and uh, he merely he he rebuffed all of my attempts to meet with him, and he sent me a statement merely reading I think we can all agree that the most effective way to end any violence
against officers is to complete and immediate abolition of the police. Well, that's a a reasonable political There's nobody with that political position, and nobody it's hard to believe anybody with that stupid, unrealistic and unprecedented an idea would be teaching college classes. Now. He may be the world's greatest expert on Marxist poetry,
but that's wild. I mean, that's that's like unicorns. And when he's contacted by a reporter, instead of thinking, boy, you know, I better kind of soft peddlet here so I don't get into trouble, No, it makes an outlandish statement like that. What did you think when you got that back? Uh? It just you know, I honestly I wasn't surprised. Um. You know, it's uh, it seemed to line up with his tweets and and the s S
Weekly interview. Um, and it just kind of clarified that he you know, he's like he stood by his remarks. He wasn't gonna walk him back at all. And then I know you talked to the university about their policies employing somebody who is openly advocating the murder of peace officers. Uh, what sort of response did you get from the administration?
So I went in and talk to the provost of UC Davis, and they essentially told me that since law enforcement is not a protected class under federal statutes like Title nine or Title six, that um, what the professor had said, um, you know, would be protected by the university. As as odious as the provost thought it was, he still wanted to ensure that this type of speech was protected.
So listen, I need to jump in with a bit of a tangent there, and I know Nick will forgive us, but I want everybody to consider the fact that Title nine picks out a number of different classes of people, you know, various colors, sexual orientations, gender, that sort of thing, and says if you say anything mean about them, then you've made it tough for people like that to enjoy an education, and therefore you violated federal law and you
can have your ass booted out of your job. Okay, Now, whether that's a good policy, well, I think it's a terrible policy. But um, whether that's a good policy or not, we have an approved list and an okay to call for their murder list, which includes everybody not on the previous list. If that ain't an example of how bizarre and twisted the grievance portion of federal law is, I
can't think of a better one. So you can. You can't say I think a lot of people, I think a lot of black people make bad decisions in their lives. But you can say we should murder cops. That's title nine for you, folks. Hope you're enjoying it anyway. Did you happen to contact UM Davis police and say, look, this is what a local college professor is saying. Just wondered if the chief pedal or anybody would like I have a comment on this. Yeah, so, so I did
not reach out to uh any Davis's police officers. But I know I believe in the secondment of the article, UM, the Davis chief of police or the you see Davis chief police, I believe he made a comment. Yeah, actually you See Davis Police Chief Joe Farrell called Clover's comments disappointing. Day we mentioned the name of this guy, professor Clover. What's his first name, uh, Professor Joshua Clover. Joshua Clover.
Comass is his first name, dom Mass Clover. The chiefs I thought, the sort of podcast you want to be associated with, Joe the podcast where the host would call the person the particular person a dumbass. I just don't think that's nearly strong enough. How do you how do you possibly have anybody teaching kids with this point of view? How does that even existed America? Here's what the chief said.
It's his comments are disappointing. I think if you have a tea time, you're gonna play some golf and it rains. That's disappointing. If you have people teaching your children, we should murder cops. That's horrified. She mustard on my shirts. I go quoting the chief. Our officers are dedicated professional or professionals who have and will continue to rise above calls for violence against them. Nonetheless, it's regrettable that they have to endure such vile hatred. I always try to
remain positive. When we are keenly aware of what's going on in the nation with the perception of law enforcement. We try to understand the criticism and build upon that. It's a reminder of myself that there's a lot of work to be done. I would suggest that the chief is in such a bizarre and untenable situation working for a University of California campus, that he has been reduced to making a mealy mouthed, silly, useless comment like that.
In Chief, Look, I'm not going after you personally because I have a feeling you're a good guy. I don't know, but that comment makes it seem like you are a beaten dog. You are so reduced by having the cow tow to the nut job faculty that you who are you? Look it in the mirror and figure out who you are. Sorry, we're doing a lot of editorializing. Port Nick Irvan is thinking I'm going to get thrown out of school. Hey, you you're you're you're a senior. Um you got he
got friends? I mean, did they agree with you or they're thed you? No students that agree with the professor? Professor domass so most of them? Yeah, In fact, all of my friends agree with me, Um, and I'm guessing they're not all were in maga hats. These friends of yours on a college campus. I mean, it's you know, it's well and it's worth noting. It's start to interrupt Nick, and I'd meant to say this at the outset. It is balsy journalism that you did. And Nick has not
written an opinion piece on this guy. It is. It is merely and purely his inquiry into who said this, how he backs it up in the administration's reaction to it. It's really solid, solid journalism. I appreciate it. Yeah, and so um and the outpoint of support has been really uh, it really nice to see you. And I've perceived scores and scores of emails, um from people all over the country,
law enforcement officers, lawyers, UC Davis alumni, um. And they're all, um, you know, supporting what I wrote and and they're and they're thankful that I wrote it. You know, I got uh lectured at a city council meeting in Davis, California by the mayor for saying strong things about him on the air and then not even calling to ask him his opinion. And he was right. So, since I've called Professor Clover a dumbass, Hanson, can you reach out to Professor Clover and say, come on the show and explain
your position. Likewise you see Davis Police Chief Joe farroh Um, you know, and i'd be If I'm wrong, I'll apologize. And it's possible that this be edited his quote. But I know what it's like to work in a place where you have to twist yourself into a pretzel. Not our current circumstances, by the way, things couldn't be better. So I just I am having trouble wrapping my head around this. So this this Clover man, um, Joshua Clover, he like is walking with his backpack to a building
today to teach people something with those views. Well, so he's currently on medical medical leave. UM, so he's not teaching right now, but he certainly had a campus presence. In fact, a few weeks ago he was tweeting about our student government president. So he's certainly around um and as he shares, the English Department told me he's in good standing with the university. And uh, with his head that far up his ass he was suffocating. Was that
his medical problem? I don't think Nick covered that in his article. Jack um let's daring expecting this sort of interview, are you? Um? I don't know if he knows the show he was, So Nick, I want to talk a little bit more about the University of California's faculty Code of Conduct and what the various heavyweights told you as you were writing your article. UM was it was their unity?
Was their lockstep unity? Am the powerful that well listen to these, uh, professor in good standing and we've prize free exchange blah blah blah. Or are there some within the university system we think No, that's way over the line calling for the killing of cops. Well, it seems
to be generally consistent. UM. The University California Faculty Code of Conduct is one of the guidelines that the UC data is academic Senate will use and or the administration will use to determine UM, whether you know something that a professor says is one of the other sanction or
not UM. And so yeah, there seems to be unity. UM. I talked to one law professor and he's actually the chair of the Academic Sense Committee on Academic Freedom and Responsibility, and I keeps talk to him in general terms about this UM. This is sort of a lastment addition to the article UM and and a quotus in the article. Um, he talks about how the further you get away from your area of expertise or your research. Uh, the argument gets much more tenuous about academic freedom, and so that's
what I was kind of taken away from that. Uh. Yeah, so so there was some disconnect, but um, largely it seemed at the university would stand by, uh, you know, protecting Professor Clover. I'd like to have Professor Clover on and ask him. And you know, if I were him, I wouldn't come on a show where people call me a dumbast either. But I'll say this in case he hears it, Professor Glover, I would like to have a serious discussion without ad hominem attacks from me. Um, what
does the world look like without police? I mean, how do you how do you see that functioning in society? Yeah, I would love to hear that. Hey, what's the name of the provost who you talked to again, Josh, I'm sorry, Nick.
The provost is named Ralph Hexter. Okay, because you quote him in the article talking about the University of Calicornifornia faculty code of conduct and he says that, Um, that the provost said that this speech really exhibiting violence was not the same as speech calling for specific acts of violence against specific people, but saying cops need to be killed.
So if there there are cops everywhere, well, and and and then I would have to believe that the that you know, shoe On the other foot, if you had some uh, you know, right to life advocate saying all pro choice people should be murdered, the world will never be good until all pro choice people are gone, I doubt that they would have that same point of view. Right, Well, that that's not an individual person, that's just a group,
so it doesn't count as right. If well, or if the professor we're teaching his Marxist post poetry and he said, um, well, let me just I want to get it exactly right. Supporters or whatever you want to know. People think that Mexicans need to be reformed, they need to be killed. People think that lesbians need to be killed, you know whatever, handicapped people need to be killed. The guy wouldn't be
on campus for one more minute. And the idea where you couldn't safely get out of town, well right, the idea that they're covered by Title nine, but cops aren't. So we gotta keep them around. That just well, you know what it is. And and frankly, I don't know what. Well, Nick, you're you're just a journalist, and I don't mean that condescendingly.
You weren't writing editorial. But I think the takeaway from the article is the culture of American university, specifically the University of California Davis is so twisted and sick and ideological that somebody who says these things sticks around. But you know, that's just what I took from it. Um, I don't know what what do you think that? What do you think that the big takeaway from your story? Is?
Nick Irvan, so I, I want to write this because I saw a disconnect between the university's alleged to support for law enforcement and the fact that they're allowing a professor to say these types of things, um, you know, while he's representing the university. And so that was, you know, the original reason that I started to write this. And you know, I I'm just looking to to drive a conversation, you know, I want, um, people to start talking about you know, what is and what isn't okay to say?
And for a professor to say, uh in the university setting or outside it well, and again it is remarkably strained and balanced journalism. Here's one more for instance, professor said, I legal immigrants need to be shot, and then an illegal immigrant judge shot. People would connect those dots and blame that professor for the murder. Yes, you had a coast to coast. Every paper in America had a police officer murder after these comments. Here's another that. Here's another
for instance for you, just for the Sagy argument. And I'm talking to U. C. Davis administration right now. If this poetry professor, this English lip professor, who's an avowed Marxist, and you know that's a it's a political theory, and he gets to advocate it, um, but I would point out that Marxism and it's very softshoots have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people in the last century, hundreds of millions. If he were an
avowed Nazi, would he still be on campus? You see, Davis, I'm asking you specifically, if Professor Clover was an avowed Nazi teaching literature and called for the shooting of all police officers, would you keep him on campus? If the answer is no, get his ass off campus today and never invite him back. Is there some flaw in my argument? Is there some fallacy in my logic? You see, Davis? Please do point it out to me. Uh Nick, anything else you want to add, especially before we let you go?
Uh no, I think we had a really good discussion. Well do you do you see this? Uh? Okay, this is a blipping time and it goes away? Or do more people catch onto this and say say, holy crap. I think I think it's going to keep gaining traction. I think, um and and I do realize how big this would get, um, you know, honestly, but I think it should go nationwide. It should be talked about on your cable news channels. It hasn't. Yeah, it's yeah, it's
um Fox News picked it up. Um. Yeah, it's obviously the sact B. I've gotten other you know, radio requests. Uh you know, for example from a radio show in Iowa. Um so yeah, I think, um, you know, the conversation is it is just getting started. Anybody from the Washington Post, New York Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, any of those people nothing so far? Your journalist again, when making
the difference between journalists and opinion piece. If if I said the University of California Davis is okay with advocating the murder of cops, is that too strong? I mean it's it's it's certainly implied. I mean it's certainly it's certainly implied that by keeping a professor who harbors those police, that there's some sort of not. I mean, I don't want to say that the University of California supports killing cops. I think that's too far. Don't quickly into his mouth.
Just sorry, Nick, I'm so sorry. No, I think it's okay. What is it? I would say, they're not so they don't object to it strongly enough to get rid of somebody who says it. That's saying it's okay. Look look at every boycott in America where advertisers pull from a show or or you know, any organization or whatever. They demand it gone, or they see you as advocating for it.
Agree with you. I just want you to ask, Nick, I think it's a fair statement for me to say, not Nick, journalists who is a young man, and I don't want to the University of California at Davis is okay with advocating murdering police. Yes, so refute that. Yeah, uh, Nick Irvan Uh. You see David Senior Associate Opinion Editor, California Age and a man with a set of stones and a hell of a good journalist. I hope there's a bright, bright future in front of Nick. I'll bet
there is. Thank you very much, thanks for having Yeah, it's our pleasure. Stay in touch, my friend. That's freaking incredible. I mean, and this is one of the all time great examples of the whole shoe on the other foot. And you can come up with so many different examples of if you said anything even half is strong about one of your so called protected groups, you're done. You're done, You'll never work again. What about college professors? I don't
believe there's Title nine protection for college professors. They're not a protected class. If you had one college professor advocating the murder of college professors, how long would day last? You see, Davis, God, come for the bizarre illogic and stay for the cowardice America's universities. I am so grateful.
Two of my kids are done, and one of my kids is going to a notably sane and liberty loving university because if I were, and I sympathize with you folks who are in this situation, because all you want is what's best for your kid's future. But I find it absolutely to the point of vomiting sickening the idea of paying tens of thousands of dollars a year to support such a bizarre and and twisted culture. How could
I possibly have not to mention my tax money. How could I possibly even either spend on a ton of my my own money or have my kids go six figures in debt to a campus that allows that sort of talk. I don't know. And the same and the same university system just down the road from Davis, California, in Berkeley, California, you get to beat up a conservative for their words um and and what or or from
For several years they finally overturned it. Ban anybody to the right of you know, Mitt Romney from campus because of this ridiculous, childish and stupid claim of those words are like violence. They make me feel threatened. I'm triggered. It's God, it's just it's so crazy. You know, this recalls and I hate to even hit a light note. Um at this point, but I can't help it. It recalls an off stated principle of the Armstrong and Getty Show.
There's nothing more disturbing than you you look over your fence and see your neighbor engaged in an act so horrible, so reprehensible, so bizarre, you realize I can't even talk to him about that act. Engaging in that act is proof that they cannot be engaged in a discussion of
the act. Well, the University California system has gone so crazy that I wouldn't even know how to begin the conversation with them, unless you know, as I suggested of the u C. Davis police chief, he has found himself in a position so untenable, and he's aware of it that he's become a version of himself that he wouldn't
really want to defend anyway. It could be there are good and decent people in the University of California system who understand that they are in never never land and and couldn't defend it really And then a separate topic, how did those tweets survive on Twitter? With some of the many stories we've done of people getting their Twitter account shut down. Well, associate of our colleague of ours, Chad Benson, had his Twitter account suspended for what did
he say? That? Was it that illegal immigrants have already broken the law or something like that. I remember it was innocuous. It was just a point of view, and they suspended them for that. But you can say cops need to be murdered. Nice to keep working on those algorithms there Twitter, police need to be killed. That tweet can survive. That's amazing hasn't been taken down yet that it's well, yeah, he took the Twitter account private. I believe.
Um I also, And then this is yet another topic I would actually like to have in calm tones, a discussion of how people like him view the world. How does he think society would run with no police? Yeah? Sure, I mean I realize in theory Lenin believed that the only reason there are crimes is because our economic system is so unfair. People have to make crimes, and if you had a more fair economic system, there'd be no criminals. Right,
But I just actually believe that stuff. Well, and in every Marxist society, you not only have police, you've got like four different kinds of police keeping an eye on everything. Everybody doesn't, says you would think of Marxist professor would be aware of that. But he's he He is either mentally ill or so thoroughly deluded by his own ideology
that he's functionally mentally ill, and yet he's employed. You know, obviously we're going to try as hard as we can to get the Provost of the University of California, Davis, on the air and and talk to him about it. Um. But you know, I go back to the backyard principle. I'm looking over at the fence, and I'm being a university university system whose behavior is so bizarre I don't even know if they can be reasoned with. Well, no, I don't think they can be either. You can't have
them employed. No, you can't have them employed in saying that stuff in front of students and suck it up tax dollars and tuition dollars in the rest, whether you send your own kid there or not, it's subsidized by taxpayers or with the whole state. So yeah, you just
can't have it. Yeah. Yeah, So you know, I humbling, humbly suggest that your hammer you see Davis with your opinions, my friends, I'm sure you can find your way to the provosts email um or or you know, or tweet Adam or they have a Twitter account, whatever, go get them. We want to link all that respectful and reasonable. Do not do not lower yourselves. We've made it simple for you. Hanson's gonna work on that. I'm strong and getty dot com and that info will be there for you. I
don't care where you're listening and where you live. You should go ahead and either tweet Adam or email them. Oh my god. And if it's not at a campus near you, wherever you are across the fruited plane, it will be very soon or sort of attitude, or it's happened and you just haven't heard about it yet. This was two right, right, Amen. When you're ready to ride Metro,
we want you to know we're ready for you. Here are just a few of the people at Metro to tell you how we're doing our part to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like noble before we half builded greatly. You've found half sanitizing stations. No mask, no Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro. We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving. Find out more at will mata dot com, slash doing our part