I've also got this opinion piece in the New York Times. The problem with saying sex assigned at birth, that is, I think unintentionally hilarious. A lot of this stuff is hilarious until you consider how far it's gone to wit. What a pleasure this is to talk to Riley Gaines in. Unless you were a college swimmer, you probably didn't know her name or a fan of college swimming until fairly recently.
But Riley has been crusading bravely, and I won't put words in her mouth but for the simple proposition that women's sports are for women and women's private spaces are for women period. Riley is the director of the Riley gains Center at the Leadership Institute and joins us.
Now, Riley, how are you.
I am doing great, and let me tell you you are always allowed to put those words in my mouth, because that is exactly what I'm doing.
Well, excellent. We are big fans of yours and admire your courage very much. For folks not familiar with this, before we get to the basics of what you're espousing, how tough has it been for you personally to stand up and say women's sports are for women?
You know what, when I first took that initial public fand after of course competing at the national Championships against Leah Thomas, who's formerly Will Thomas, who swam three years on the men's team at you Penn before deciding to switch to the women's team. After seeing all of that firsthand, after going through sensitivity training and social justice circles and all the different things, I was terrified. But I could not have been more naive to how easy it really
is to say something so simple. Again, all I'm saying is that there are two sexes. You can't change your sex, and each sex is deserving an equal opportunity, privacy and safety. It's wild that that we live in a time where that now requires bravery to say that, But it's easy saying it for me.
Now it's a hill. I'm willing time.
So when you how many times did you swim against Leah Thomas, the most famous trends athlete too, that once.
Against him at that one national championships. Okay, as I mentioned competed.
What was what was it like in the pool of the crowd that day? I mean, were was everybody just like ignoring the elephant in the room or were people talking about it.
It was weird going into the meet, almost ashamedly, I felt intrigued. I had a lot of questions myself and my teammates that that we wanted answered, right, like what is the locker room going to look like?
Yeah?
Is he as tall as he seems on Instagram compared to his teammates. But upon arriving to that meet and of course having these questions answered, like I said, I felt ashamed for feeling intrigued, and those feelings of intriguement and almost like this, this big circus were we were a part of those feelings shifted the heartbreak. I mean, I felt like competing against them. I was going into the race with my hands tied behind my back.
Well, you don't have anything to apologize for, I mean, for gonna sake. You were a young college woman, and I don't blame you for thinking, Wow, what the hell is going to happen? But you were forced to share the locker room, or at least Leah Thomas's teammates were for a very long time with a six foot four inch man, fully intact genitals on display, and you were being required to look at that human and say, that's a woman.
Not only that, but when we objected to this, we were told we were the problem.
Right. We were told that we were.
The ones who should oologize and if we didn't see this as a woman, then ultimately it was us who are who are the biggest, and we should face the repercussions. Thomas's teammates who objected to this, Granted they keep in mind, yes I a dressed with him and that at that national championship, but his teammates did eighteen times every single week. And when they objected to this and sit an email to their administration, you pan, I swear to you I have a screenshot of the response.
You' penn responded back with if you.
Feel uncomfortable seeing managing to tell you, here are some counseling resources that you speak in an attempt to re educate yourselves.
Wow, how did that happen a couple of years after Me Too? Where if a guy asked a girl out on a date at work, you were Harvey Weinstein.
That's so crazy, I know it.
And now these same people who advocated for the.
Me Too movement, who claimed to champion and pride themselves on championing women's rights it's those same people who are spearheading this movement to really dismantle our rights as.
Women, well as the father of a couple of daughters and a youth sports coach who coached girls. I remember in boys. I remember remarking on the show years and years ago, as I was head coach for a boys soccer team and assisting with my daughter's soccer team, the speed and violence of the boys at the same age was shocking compared to the girls. If the girls exit deadly knocked each other down, they would say, oh my god,
I'm sorry and pick up their opponent off the turf. Meanwhile, the guys are bleeding from the head and covered with mud and loving it. The idea that oh, no, no, now that male says she's a female is the sort of absurdity Voltaire talked about when he said, those who can make us believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. But anyway, so Riley Gaines, you've got your Riley gain Center at the Leadership Institute. What are the main things
you're trying to accomplish? What are the basic principles?
The main thing we're trying to accomplish through the center is it's a training program to help train and develop and equip and empower leaders, whether that's leaders at the national level, the community level of course, within school boards, college teams, college athletes, whatever it might be. We need more leaders. I believe that's why our suffering. I have also been and speaking on several different college campuses through the Center.
Which has been a big push of mine.
To really help engage the youth people who are my age, you know, being a recent college graduate myself, I understand.
I understand how how hard it is.
You're essentially equated to a criminal if you say you're a conservative on college cases.
Not that this issue.
Should be part of it or should fall along party lines in the way that ultimately it has, at least in terms of how our elected officials are responding and how the media portrays this issue.
But we need more truth speakers, truth.
Speakers, So that's what speaking on these college campuses, that's the goal there.
Riley Gaines is going to be speaking at You See Berkeley not far from the Radio Ranch tomorrow, that's April the fourth, at six point thirty, as part of her Reclaim Feminism campus tour. Was it you See Berkeley that you ran into like violent opposition or like last year was it?
Yes, you're exactly right, almost exactly a year ago. It was at San Francisco State University. I was met with vitriol, I was met with violence, I was met with, of course, hatefulness. And it's so comical, like you, like you mentioned in the intro here, it would be comical. This is the same crowd who claims to be tall and who claims to be inclusive and welcoming and accepting. But that is not what I faced at San Francisco, and oftentimes not what I faced around the country. This is the least
tolerant group you could possibly imagine. But nonetheless, this is who needs to hear the message. It's no good preaching to the choir all the time. So I'm excited to be in the Bay Area. I'm excited to be at u C. Berkeley, and I'm I'm now, given my experience last year in San Francisco, I am more than prepared for what could possibly and most certainly probably will you.
Got the yeah, probably, will you got the proper security? I mean, so you're you're prepared for it to be ugly?
Possibly, Yes, sir, Unfortunately that's the way it has to go.
Well, probably actual guys, like big guys with penises that are going to protect you. Oh that kind of guy, that kind of guy. That's the kind of guy I'm talking about you.
Wow.
And if anybody who's working your favorite one guy now Riley is a good and decent and reasonable person. I Joe Getty, on the other hand, have fully empowered anybody working security for Riley's event to whoop as much ass as you need to to keep her one hundred percent safety. These people are lunatics. Riley. The point you made about, you know, welcomeness and inclusion, that is such a lie. It's like the whole diversity thing that doesn't mean diversity,
that means the people I want. The minute it's the people I don't want. Suddenly diversity isn't important at all, or welcomness or inclusion or whatever the hell else. So we are going to have a link at Armstrong in getty dot com so folks can access the Riley Gains Center, particularly parents of young women, and not just athletes either. I mean, because y'all are talking about not only sports and locker rooms, but women's faces, women's prisons, and bathrooms and that sort of thing as well.
Right, of course, of course we are.
You're exactly right in saying an extends far beyond just women's sports.
Riley Gaines, you're a hero of ours. We appreciate your time and your efforts very much. Keep up the good fight and let us know how we can help. We mean that seriously, of course.
Well, I thank you guys so much and appreciate you for what you do.
So thank you Armstrong.
Andy