Listen, you've slandered this man. Yeah. What I sort of want to know is how do we how do we get to this point? I do not think that anyone, Mr Chairman, I am done. Thank you, very man. You slandered this man from top to bottom. I want to say this before we welcome our esteemed guest, Maizie Herono from Hawaii. Sounds like a dope. Now, it's fairly unlikely she's actually a dope. Is it possible she just has resting dope voice? I mean, like this guy here turns
up as a astrophysicist. I mean it's possible. So a majority of Americans don't want impeachment proceedings to happen in Congress. I think people are just getting tired of all this. I don't know if that hurts Trump or the Democrats or everyone or no one. I don't know. So we
should talk to somebody smart. Indeed. Lan he j Chen is the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with lani enln He is also a David and Diane Stuffy Research Fellow to Hoover Institution Director Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University. Lon he how are you, sir? Good morning, gentlemen doing well, how are you awesome? So that there is a big ABC Washington Post poll came out. I guess over the weekend um majority people don't want impeachment proceedings to start.
The vast majority of people their opinion wasn't changed one way or another over the Muller report. I just I just think I just feel like people are worn out by all of this, and does that help or hurt? Who's that helper hurt? Yeah? I do think that there's a certain amount of fatigue that's set in. I mean, I think most Americans look at this and they just say, you know what, stop pickering and get something done, you know. I I think that's that's the predominant frame through which
people see all this. In terms of who it helps or hurts. I think it depends on how the cards are played. If the Democrats do proceed to impeachment proceedings, I can't do you think that's a possibility. I haven't even considered that actually might happen. You think that could happen? Well, there, you gotta remember there's this conflict in the Democratic Party. For all the talk about what's going on in the Republican Party, with Trump and people who don't like Trump.
The bigger divide and the bigger story over the next year is going to be the division within the Democratic Party. And you see this played out between Nancy Pelosi and Alexandria Kazio Cortez. I mean, no one is thrown more shade at Alexandria Kazio Cortez and Nancy Pelo. Now, now Nancy Pelosi has got a problem, which is that she's the only same one in the room there. She's the one saying, She's the one saying, look, we can't, we
can't do this impeachment thing. It's not going to make a whole lot of sense given what we have on the record. Now, the problem is there's so many people agitating for this on the progressive left, and it's it's not even just raw numbers, guys, it's how loud they are. And oftentimes you, I mean you, you fellows know this.
Whoever yells the loudest in an argument wins. And So while I don't think it makes any sense on God's green Earth or Democrats to proceed to impeachment proceedings, it wouldn't surprise me if they do it either, Just in where the energy is in their party. Wow. Interesting, that'd be something that'd be what a what a crazy maneuver, that would be against the wishes of your House the House Speaker. And I'm guessing Chuck Schumer's not into it.
I mean, when when Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi came out of that infrastructure meeting the other day with Trump and all talked about how we had a great meeting, and this is that that's not a couple of leaders who are excited about impeachment, or they wouldn't be talking
that way. Well, that's right. And the interesting part of this is you've got a dynamic here, right, because some of these Democrats, particularly marginal Democrats who are elected in twenty eight team, let's say from southern California, who represent districts that are pretty evenly divided, they'd love to have a two trillion dollar infrastructure package to take home at some of that to their districts and say, look at what I've got, Look what I was able to win.
The problem is going to be on the other side of this if, in fact, you have a situation now where you've got people who are running for president, let's say, for example, they would benefit from nothing more than having a little more conflict, and it doesn't fit the narrative. Well if Trump is able to do a deal with the Democrats. So in some ways, all the incentives are misaligned here and that's why Americans are so sticky tired
of all this. Yeah. Yeah, it is the age of hyperbole everywhere, from social media to the TV, and it's just the radio and politics is a hypercharged hyperbole, I think. But yeah, I think that's probably why Joe Biden is so clearly trying to be Mr com Mr We're fine, Mr chuckling warmly. In fact, you know, he said the other day that the China is not a competitor us. That's fine. They're nice folks, they're good folks. I mean, so his uh, his strategies definitely emerged. Would you agree
that's his thing. Yeah, he's he's sort of I'm going to be the voice of reason, and I'm going to be the comfortable blanket you you know, you throw on when it's corn it's cold on a winter night. The problem is, and it gets back again to this beforetime about earlier, which is the split within the Democratic Party. I'm not so sure the Democratic primary electorate, which is the electorate he needs to speak to right now, is
particularly interested in a restoration of things past. I think they're interested in a forward looking vision and dramatic, bulk change, and that's not Joe Biden. I mean, you listen to Joe Biden his policy prescriptions straight out of there's not a whole lot he's talking about that's going to be anything new. And so that's the challenge that I think that that I think he's gonna face, which is what he's selling fundamentally, is probably not something that a lot
of Democratic primary voters want. Now, they may end up deciding, Okay, we'll swallow it and we'll take it because we think he's the guy best equipped to be Trump. But I'll tell you he seems a little bit out of step with the Democratic Party elector now, not out of step with maybe what the general independent public wants, but in terms of Democratic primary voters, it doesn't sound like a
great message to me. I I hate to derail the conversation, but I find that to be a really interesting question. A statement in the form of question what would be the best way for the parties to select president chill candidates? Because what you've described, and it's undeniably true, sounds like a bad way to do it. We're going to have a fired up, small minority of people pick who appeals to them, then we'll trot them out to the general population,
who we already know is looking for something different. Yeah. Well, you know, the way that they used to do it was the old smoke filled rooms where party elders and leaders would get together and figure out who they wanted. And that was probably better, wasn't it. I mean, you know, I kind of feel like it might be. That's that's interesting. Everybody's come full circle on that. When I was younger, I thought that just sounds terrible. A couple of powerful
people making all the decisions. But Nancy and Chuck would do a better choice than the than the than the energized AOC wing is going to do. Yeah, I think that's right. And you know the funny thing about this is we're always fighting the last fight. Okay, So I think about the Democrats. The perfect example of this. What they do in is they decide we're going to get rid of something called super elegance. Right, just to let you know, we've got like forty five seconds. But go ahead, Okay,
So I'll try to make this quick. They've got these super delegates, right, which are basically party elders who helped select the nominee they decide. You know, we're going to get rid of those, so fast forward. We're in now. The party elders in the Democratic Party have far less influenced unless there's a contested convention, then they gain influence again.
But this is what I'm talking about. They're always fighting the last fight, and in some ways going back to the way things were sometimes might not be a bad idea because you might actually end up with a better outcome. Listen, let's follow up on that next time we chat. To apologize for the abrupt and long he but it's always a pleasure. Lon he Chan as the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with lon Chan. That's interesting. That sounds like they've got a recipe for a less um effective
candidate than they've ever had. More democracy is not always better