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Right now though, and you know, just speaking for Jack and myself, we look forward to this all week. Checking in with Emily Saul of The New York Post for the latest on the El Chapo trial, which, if it were not the era of Trump, where everybody's hair is on fire and screaming at each other and kids on the mall and old Indians and the rest of it. If we weren't living through this, everybody would be talking about the El Chopo trial, Emily joins us. Now, Hey, Emily,
how are you, good morning? I'm well, thank you, thank you for spending little time with us again, So tell us what's unfolded in the last few days. At the l Chapel trial. It's been a it's been a very dramatic last couple of days. Um, we've had family drama. We've heard about Emma's involvements. Um, those were completely new details that we've never gotten before. And is that is the wife, Yes, his wife, Emma cornell Um, who we now have been told aided in his infamous two thousands
fifteen prison escape, the one with the tunnel in the motorcycle. Well, in fairness to her, if I went to my wife instead, Judy, can you help me with an infamous prison escape? And she said no, that would affect our marital bonds, very very likely. She had a number of things to consider, and a motorcycle. Was he riding the motorcycle in the tunnel or did you run through the tunnel and get on a motorcycle? So the motorcycle was in was in
the tunnel's tunnel. It was likely it was likely a byproduct of the building of the tunnel, because it looked a little bit more like a trolley cart that continued to remove dirt. But after he wrote that motorcycle, he on the back of an a TV and was taken to a warehouse where Um. He was then transferred to an airplane where he jumped on a horse. UM. And then yeah, yesterday we had definitely the most graphic testimony yet. So it's been a it's it's been an interesting it's
been an interesting couple of days. Yesterday jurors heard about three murders that Mr Guzman himself is alleged to having with his own hands, I mean with a gun, but him personally, though he didn't order them, Okay, him personally, not those that he ordered. And I will warn you those are probably the details of those are very graphic, probably not suitable for many of your viewers. It was brutal to the point where I've I've seen a lot in court over the years, and it was it was
astounding today, even by even by court reporter standards. They were gruesome. Okay, So this trial has been going on for how long now, we just wrapped up our tense fleets weak. So what I've been following from your reporting, um, is how he I knew he bought off mayors, city councilman, police force, but then then you go up to the governors and clear up to the president. He had such a network of people helping him, and it was it well, I guess it was the old silver or leads some
of me paid off and someone were just scared of him. Yes, I mean most definitely. You know, he had a number. It wasn't and it wasn't just him. It was because of the vast nature of his network and the number of people he had across the country who had access to a number of different public officials and offices, you know, be they any of the variety, like they have a number of different tiers of police in Mexico um or you know, like the their equivalent of the attorney's General's office.
They just had people. There were so many connections across this well, and they got to people so early that you would have people early on in their political careers who were taking bribes, perhaps by force, because they were afraid not to, and as they ascended in their careers, they're sort of once you start taking bribes, you don't. You can't. You can't just say suddenly, I'm no longer going to help you, right, you went too far, I'm out. It doesn't work that way. And now if you don't,
you don't leave the cartel. And in Mexico, so worth pointing out for those who are not familiar with it, for a lower level official to be approached and either take a few bucks or a few bullets is not way out of them the norm. I mean, that's not that extraordinary development. And you point out then that person is reasonably successful before you know, if they're the governor. Yeah, that's that's troubling. I hadn't really thought about it anyway.
What I don't understand, Emily, and this is really interesting to me. At what point do you become a narco state? Um? Because it would grow over time, and there's a tipping point to where even if you were you wanted to be a good law abiding citizen, you might think, boy, I'll bet everybody in this courthouse works for El Chapo. I can't speak my mind here. I have no allies. Yeah right, no, definitely. I mean it's a very it's
it's a very complicated landscape. Um. You know, I'm not I'm not an expert certainly, and um and you know the system in Mexico. But I think it's it's just you know, generally, if you if you feel like your public officials are corrupt, which I mean speaking with Mexican reporters who are here covering the case UM. And especially if you have someone who is as mythological as as Chaco is, you know, he's he's a benefactor in certain areas because he would provide certain assistance to UH towns
that felt neglected by UM by their government officials. The sort of you end up with this UH, this interesting dichotomy of who you know who will take care of you? Who do you trust? The classic, the classic people been doing it all over the world, you see, isis does that in Sometimes you go in and you know, you restore, restore law and order and pick up the garbage and UH and keep the electricity on, and they're in the
populations on your side. Sure it's social you know, if you have UH, if you have social services that are missing, and you have a essentially an organization like the cartel is that comes in and provide structure, it's a it's a very easy way to UM to bring people in the Italian mom New York, New Jersey, you know, early twentieth century. UH. Emily saul Is the New York Post
reporter covering the l Chapo trial. Have you gotten any sense from some of the cross examination Emily during say that the details of the gruesome you know, tortures and murders and that sort of thing. How's the defense dealt with that? Well, so far, the violence of the trial has been very very sanitized. Um, we sort of got the sense that the judge told the prosecutors they got one chance to really relay all of the details, and
they used that chance yesterday. So we haven't started cross on this witness yet, so we don't know how they will deal with that specifically. Um, so far, the defense uh, with witnesses who have said, you know, well, Chapol commission to this murder, Chappo commission that murder, their basic try g has been to just attack the general credibility of the cooperator, who you know, has the member of the cartel has often been in violent like involved in violence
themselves or at least another criminal activity. Um you know, maybe had a drug problem, maybe has nefarious reasons for uh, you know, and just you know a lambasting chap Oh it's you know, they have they've they've gone ahold. It's typically just been a credibility issue. Um, right, Well, you're not going to find many angels who know what was going on. I don't remember if we've talked about this. How are they protecting the jury? Is the jury? Um?
Are they kept anonymous because he only has to get yes? So UM, the jury is is very very protected. The jury selection process was anonymous only in jury services here in the courthouse. UM is aware of the furs actual identities. UM. The judge himself, the the prosecutor's, the defense attorneys only know them by a number. UM they are are. They are picked up every day from private locations by the U. S. Marshal Service and transported in that UM from you know,
to and from those locations. But there are a lot of propations that have been taken surrounding the jury. I mean they are in the room, they're in full view of Mr Guzman, of the public and whoever may make it into the courtroom. Yeah, I wouldn't want that. But the details of their of their of their lives that have been have been kept. Emily Stall of The New York Post to Emily, fabulous job. As always, again, we appreciate the time and uh and we look forward to
talking again. All right, thank you so much for having absolutely and of course we'll have links to Emily's in her colleagues reporting on this story so you can find it quickly at the New York Post dot com. We we say this all the time. We so a lot of people really do take our culture of honesty and law and order for granted. That so people are law
abiding and respectful of the law. It's got to be frustrating to El Chapo that here he's at the word house and what you're telling me, there's not somebody that's gonna leak me to names, because that's the way it works in Mexico. There's always somebody who will leak me to names. Yeah, you might have the judge and prosecutor in Mexico. Yeah, civilization is a miracle. But once people
get used to it, they take it for granted. Sure, they think it's the permanent state of things, and that it's inevitable that we are reasonably civilized and reasonably safe in our homes. Um, it's not true. All you have to do is open your eyeballs and look around the world. Do you want me to name thirty seven countries where people aren't safe in their homes, aren't safe you know, speaking out politically, aren't safe from drug lords and gang
lords and and and terrorist organizations. I could name you thirty seven and take a while because I probably get bogged down midway through Africa. But but people take that for granted. It's just the nature of humanity. Yeah, the natural state of man is nasty, violent, brutish and short.
This is a shortened stature, but shortened life. This is an an natural thing we have going on right now, where you can, you know, live your life and never get extorted or strong armed most of us right by anybody, right. It's a completely unnatural, practically americal. Yeah, whether you have your own bathroom or you share one with your family, a little extra help keep in the bathroom seeing counter and mere clean goes a long way, and Viva paper
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