Avoiding Nuclear Destruction. Mike Lyons talks to Armstrong & Getty

mata dot com slash doing our part. As we were talking about various times throughout the show, if you're really going to evaluate the news of the day, the Colin trial doesn't even finish in the top three, behind North Korea nukes and India Pakistan. I would agree, and Mike Lyons, longtime CBS News military analysts, joins us now to talk about those two nuclear situations. Mike, how are you, sir? Thank you? Why don't we begin with the I almost

said tensions. They're shooting at each other, the violence between in Indian Pakistan and what it all means. Yeah, it's kind of back to the future. This is a country that they fight over, this region called Kashmir to the north of India, to the east of Pakistan, and since uh India had its independence it's ninety seven, as well as when Pakistan was established, it's been an area that both countries have tried to take late claim over and

there've been three or four skirmishers there before. Each time, though, Pakistan comes out on the losing side, and in some cases there are you know, clearly the loser, and so they lose the nationalists like pride over that and then in this case, now that's why with Pakistan shooting down Indian aircraft and capturing an Indian pilot, it's like they did um. They appear to be now, you know, trying to up their game right now, and it's down to these two leaders as to whether or not where the

situation goes from here. Yeah, I was. I somehow I got sucked into a Twitter feed. I just started following different people and it was it was people who live in Indian Pakistan but tweeting English. I guessed, and man, there's a lot of just regular people that were really proud of their country and wanted to go to battle. I don't know, I don't know how many people feel that way, but it was it was a little it

was a little troubling. Yeah, exactly. And that's because again, I guess the last one nine significant conflict, the Pakistani's loss about four thousand, five thousand soldiers and the border skirmers that took place there go back to seventy one. Another one took place over a few days um and again in each In each case um, Pakistan was lost in some cases ground. In nineteen seventy one, there was that war with Bangladesh. So that's on the eastern part

of India. When they when they divided up the countries and after the Second World War, they left a part of Pakistan that was basically through India to the to the right, let's say, to the east of India called East Pakistan. That's not called Bangladesh. There's Harrison had a concert for the Starvation of the Children back in the seventies about it. Anyway, that civil war took place, it didn't make a lot of sense to have East Pakistan

with India right in the middle of it. They won their independence and that and and again in each time the Pakistan military software defeat. I was heartened to see that the Prime Minister of Pakistan, who's a TV celebrity, how odd is that in a former athlete, um that he returned the Indian pilot to India or or said he was going to That obviously is a guy saying let's not get crazy here, right. I think in both cases both Um, you've got the the Indian Prime minister

as well Modi. They're populoust people. They're both coming up for election. Uh. I don't want to say they're you know, Donald Trump like, but they're They're not necessarily these career politicians. They're new in the space here. They they you know, have tapped the will the people, so to speak. And in both cases, if hubrisk gets out in front, both sides now have nuclear capability that clearly could destroy you know, each other within us the time of flight, given the

fact they have weapons. In India is a little more complex nuclear program. They literally have a triad. They can deliver nukes from air land and see Pakistan pretty much air, some intermediate missiles mostly artillery based, nothing from the sea. But again the bottom line is, because they're neighboring at each other, you'd have clearly mutually short destruction. Something started.

But your guess is cooling down rather than ramping up right and like anything else, You've got to find a way that both sides can save face in order for

that to happen. Uh, maybe just the fact that the Pakistanis were able to shoot down the two Indian aircraft and the fact that they capture them, and maybe that's that's gonna be the win that they're gonna take again, they haven't had one in about twenty years, and maybe that that will be good enough for them, and the Indians will take forth the fact that you know that, the fact they didn't start a nuclear war with their neighbor over a reason that they've been fighting over for

the last seventy eight years. Hey, just for fun, And that's not the right term at all. If if Indian Pakistan did get into a war, would we stay out of it? Take a side? How would that turn out? Oh no, No, we'd have to stay are clear out of it. I mean it's it's nothing we could do on any level. I don't know. I mean, we've got no kind of treaties with either side. We'd would be in the sidelines watching them destroy each other. I was

just gonna put it. We're kind of wearing the striped shirt at this point, right, We're not teasing sides were saying, hey, everybody cool, right, and you see the beer from the bleachers being thrown right now. The fact that there's no US leadership in the world and that's why this is happening, that that's just nonsense. I mean that these are countries

that have got to get along. They've got they've got a border, they gotta figure out what I'm gonna put up, you know, and they've got walls between these two countries. I guarantee it. Um. So that's not about US leadership about yeah, I don't I don't want to. I don't want to get off on a tangent and take up your time. But but the idea that a lot of people have, especially a lot of intellectuals have, that even two countries that don't get along, it's our fault. It's

just crazy. Yeah, no kidding, that's I've missed that somehow. I've been kind of busy less day. I'm kind of glad I missed it. Mike Lions, CBS News military analyst is on the line. All right, Mike, let's go ahead and talk about the non deal in North Korea. What's your take on the sum of itself and and both parties walking away, Yeah, all good. Unfortunately, what they had agreed on prior to this meeting looks like that that

didn't even happen at the summit. Even if they got a um end of the Korean conflict, that would have been at least moving the process forward. I think it's not failure, but we've got to get some result at this point. I think the president is going to need some results if he thinks that North Korea is gonna

change their behavior anyway. UM. But I'd rather have him to do what he did, walk away and not release sanctions or or do something else because, in some ways, based on my observation of the media right now, Donald Trump, it's lose lou of anything he does. If he caved on I think he caved. If he you know, he walks away, he's getting slammed for that. It's just it's just mind boggling. I'm relieved they's walked away, and at

this point now we know a little bit more. I thought, again, we get the end of the Korean War, we get the demilitaration that they're parallel, that would have been a good win. We also consider South Korea, though here they want something to happen as well. It's not just the United States. Do you think it's significant that tensions have been ratcheted down on the peninsula or is that just kind of a cycle that we go through And it's not that good as sign. You mean, they're they're not

firing off missiles and testing balls, right, there's no military exercise. Well, just you know, I think it's widely agreed the tensions are down. There's a lot more friendly noises being made, no no scary military exercises and tests. Yeah, I agree with that. And and Trump thought his personality was gonna win the day over and it it just didn't in this case. And you know, it is it is what is why he walks away from it. But you're right that South Korea wants those tensions to be ratcheted down.

The South Korean leaders in particular, and um, they want to open up the boarder. They want to do more things and eventually, you know, maybe by things will be overcome by events and eventually they'll get to a place

where there's more security. In the past, Um, they would ratch it back up the military exercise, if they would wratch it back up a lot of the missile testing you know, you notice the president left still and I've I've been okay with Trump's, uh, the way he's gone about this, And you know, the diplomacy crowd says, no, you've got to have all the groundwork laid long before they get there. And all they do is shake hands inside something. You know, he just shows up and they talk.

But you can't. You can't show up to another one, can you, unless you know something's gonna happen. But it's okay to walk away this one and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not doing that. You've it fly clear across the country, show up again, and then walk away with nothing that would actually look bad. Yeah, running out of magic wands when it comes to that, being able to reuse that scenario over and over. And that's why I thought they would lead get that end of the Korean conflict out there,

but they weren't able to get that. Um. You know, he wanted something. He want of those sanctions relief. He you know, he wants the complete turnaround of what we would do without any verification. I just don't think that's gonna work. I or I would also like to see in suspectors in the country that sells me. It's another thing he's thought. He's allowed the country to be opened up. People are looking inside there that would be another good stuff forward. Well, I agree with Jack. I think that

the Trump approach has been really interesting and unconventional. Yeah, but nothing else has work, So I say, why not give it a give it a go. But and someday maybe, uh, Mike, I'll buy a beverage of your choice and we can sit around and chat about one of my favorite topics in in you know, political science and reality, and that's totalitarian regimes trying to or wanting to liberalize, and how

difficult and dangerous it is for them. And and little fat head knows that he knows every bit of opening that juices up the economy, which is the care at the president's danglin in front of him, also holds terrible danger for his regime. Right, it's fundamentally lighting up to use, and it's going to have an explosion. On whether he can control that explosion remains to be seen. And you know, again it's it's clearly a timber box in North Korea.

What he can control, He's still concerned about his own safety. Look, how we have to travel to Vietnam in order to do the summit from the very beginning, and so he knows that once that train leaves the station, Uh, there's just no stopping at that point. I'm sorry. The metaphorical trainer, the actual one he can ride at get the one he rides on through China. Actually, what's that train leaves

any right? Never? He might never return, who knows. Yeah, Mike Clients, CBS News Military Analysts, Mikey, it's always enlightening. Thanks very much. We look forward to hearing about your next project or whatever you have cooking. Yeah, thanks, I got I got the cast of Mr Robot here. If you, if your fans, if you, if your listeners watch Mr Robot, watch films. Just they just they just wrapped up filming. Uh, the first few episodes of the season four of Mr.

Robot in my House. Literally, No, Kenny is so into that show. Yeah cool? Why your house? Well, they picked it. They did a kind of a routine screen that came by, and uh so if you watch the show, my home is going to be the childhood home of Agent d Phrow. She used the FBI agent that the Dark Army has now come over. How cool, I'm not sure I can remember that sentence, but I will do. Your kids think this is the coolest thing ever. Yeah, they're not at home,

thank god. But because it's it's kind of like having a frat party in your house three days in a row. You're you know, dragging people out at four o'clock in the morning, but literally show back up at six am and the party starts again. So we're in a massive cleanup effort right now for the next five days around here. So all right, Well, did you have to sign any non disclosure things about who was and wasn't in the scenes that were being filmed there as you? Yeah, I can't.

I could, I couldn't go a lot on social media, couldn't take pictures of the actress. And I said, I don't really know a lot about the plot and everything. I could tell you a few two different things. That's but how it extended. But it's, uh, it was pretty cool for sure. Well, something we'll have to talk about that. That's fantastic. I'm so glad you mentioned that. My clients, Mike,

thanks million, it's always great. Thanks you gat me. Thanks, nobody's feeling anything in my house and listens for some Learning Channel show that's kind of horrific. Oh oh, my friend's kitchen was featured in a major motion picture recently. Yeah, where do you get signed up for that? Hey? Parents, and I'm nice palm tree in my backyard. If you wanted to get some like starlit, depose in front of it. You use it all day, no charge. Hey hoarders, are

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