Siblings Pt 1

Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song. We Welcome to Talking Point with Ray Angeler, discussing the hot topics and answering your questions, Saturdays five to seven pm on Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point, it's talking Point, it's talking Point, it's talking Point conversations. You need to have. Good afternoon, Good afternoon, and welcome to Talking Point. I hope you've all had a really bless Sabbath today because I was coming in I see it's been actually

a really lovely sunny day, so the spring might actually be here. So I to thank you all for joining us as we are about to go on our discussion. I am joined as usual with my co hosts zen Ya g in the house. Well actually, hi everyone, welcome, welcome to Talking Point. And we've got Pedro somewhere up north as well. Halifax. That's right, Halifax is up in downtown Halifax. Hi doing Pedro, I'm doing good. Ocome everybody to the talking Point. Cool and today we've got some

other guests joining us as well, so we'll introduce them later. So so thank you for joining us. As always, if you want to join in the conversation, please do you would always want to hear your comments, so you can either emailers at studio at Adventist dot Sorry, studio at Adventage Radio dot London get my four Steve fuck In, or you can text us on eight triple to eight, write hope and then space and then your message.

We'll be talking about siblings today and sibling relationships. If you didn't know, it was National Siblings down the tenth of eight pul. I'm not sure if that's the same in the UK actually, but in America and Canada it is. But it popped up in a timeline of something and I thought, oh, that's a really cool thing. Yes, it's really important. Many of us have siblings, so we want to sort of recognize and find out a

little bit more about that now. Also this month it's Stress Awareness Month, which I thought was also interesting as well, so we've cover a little bit about stress. But I guess we're talking about siblings. Hopefully none of us brothers sisters causes any stress, but hey, we'll have to wait and see. So so yes, so that's what we're going to be talking about today. Like I said, we have some guests and would introduce them shortly, but how has your weeks been, Zenya and Pedro? My week's been good.

I ended up up not I don't think as far as you are, Pedro. Somewhere I call Graham thum. Oh yeah, yes, first time I've ever been. I do really need to explore more. Perhaps now the weather is changing, that might just be the time for it. But I celebrated the sixty fifth birthday party and it was just great to see everybody reunite.

Some peoples they haven't seen since Lockdown or pre Lockdown. So now that we're opening up, you know, the time is right to just meet and greet and catch up with everybody, and hopefully we will do a bit more of that, because I think that's one of the lessons of Lockdown, isn't it that we really ought to spend much more quality time with each other. That's the mission. Cool see what happens. Yeah, yeah, no,

that's lovely. Oh that's cool. That's cool. It's so it's really important to celebrate birthdays as much as I kind of kind of forgot mine last month, but hey, it's important. Don't worry. I postponed it. That's all I'm saying. It's over. Let it go, never going to celebrate all year long a month ago. You know, the celebration can continue. So yeah, oh yeah, So how was your week? And everything lovely? Lovely? What about itself? Pedro and do not say your famous last

words. My week was actually I was actually on lockdown because too of my kids had COVID. Okay, like they locked in their rooms and pretty much it just worked, and then came home make sure they was okay, help the wife and make sure we you know, tried to stay away from them so that we didn't get it. Yeah, much better now made it a little crazy because my wife goes into like clean out mode when the stuff like that. So COVID still around, isn't it? Yeah yeah, yeah,

but it's still it's still really a thing. But I guess people are less a lot more not maybe not the word casualist, a bit of the word, but we're not quite. Yeah, we just kind of It's one of

those things. Now. Yeah, they need, like I told them, they need to still kind of social, Like they have pictures of their friends and they're like really right next to them or have their arm around them or like stand in a real clothes and I'm like, y'all need the because they definitely got it from school, because only the two from the same school got it, so they definitely got it from school. So I was just like, you know, you guys, gotta be more careful next time. But

they're doing better now they're over it, so good. That's good. Yeah, that's good. Oh that's good. Well my week was My week was well. It was okay. It's a bit up and down, you know, busy with work as usual. One thing I did notice, now I know we always as we're on talking point, one thing the British do very well is talk about the weather. I noticed every time I went out to drive it poured with rain. Like every single time I'd see like quite bright

and sunny and thing, oh we'll pop out. Soon as I stepped out, it started raining. And even I drove down into London yesterday and it was torrential rain and I was like, I didn't notice this on the on the you know, when check the weather my weather app I'm like, and it was just you know, it's dark, it was misty and foggy and

it was pouring down. I was just like, you know, sometimes you just have to pray and please say God protect me, bless me and the other drivers around me as well, because there are some crazy drivers out there and some of the speeds I could see people going past. I'm like, really, there's so much surface water on the M twenty five. I was just like, oh, dear. So I was quite pleased when I saw the sunshine today and was just like, this is great. Maybe spring really

is here. I'm seeing enough spring flowers, the daffodilswers. Yeah, it is. To be fair, it is April, so I guess those showers are inevitable. But yeah, but aside from that, it was a you know, it's fairly I was gonna say uneventful really, but yeah, just it go so quickly here we are again, which is you know, that's all good. That's sort of good to what you just said. I do wonder about that because going to be in the US and even in Bermuda here,

the folks here, they they tailgate. It's poort rain and they're like right on your backside. They're cutting you off the in and out of traffic on the motorway, and I just is it like a culture thing? Is

it just something that they drive worse when it rains. Because I'm on the road all day every day, and I just noticed that, like what you just said, and I get road raide, so I'm like you, I have to hold on to my Christianity because I'm like, I want to just curse them out, and I'm just like, you know, I'm just holding in, like Lord, please be with me, because I'm like, I

just want to do you know what, I don't understand. I don't know if it's I don't know if it's necessarily a culture thing, but but I've noticed and I guess I don't know because I just wonder whether it's similarly around the country. I generally live in London, but having been out of London a bit more, I don't see that kind of driving quite as much. It's up here, but is Manchester, Liverpool? What if it's a It's all over, but I don't know. It's just like a field. It's

everywhere. It's not just London. I don't know. I mean, people just I guess it's one of maybe's of those things where people just don't think of these things because you know, the surface water when you hit that, and you're just like, actually, it's very easy to glide and what have

you, and you're just like, are you not seeing this? And maybe they think they've got special time second backup, Like, you know, if you're driving and you see a pole, the corpounds of the pole, you need two seconds before you hit the pole, before you reached the pole to give it. That'd be enough distance to stop. That's how I drive. Yeah, not these folks. They, Yeah, I just wonder. I'm just like, man, yeah, I just shake my head. I'm just

like, I'm really baffled by it because it's annoying. Yeah no, I hate you. Yeah. So yeah, I don't get it myself. But you know, praise God, we accidents. You brought it up. Yeah. No, I'm just thankful for traveling mercies a lot of the time, because you know, you're on the road and you're just like wow, you know. Yeah, So it's a blessing to be here and to get from A to B. So I can only be thankful for that. So I guess let's get stuck in and we'll introduce our guests that we've got on so

far, a couple of when we've be joining us a bit later. So we're going to be talking all things siblings. But as much as we love to give our opinions and our thoughts on that, and obviously we've done we do a little bit of research. We always like to have our experts on here as well. So today we have got I guess who we haven't had on for a little while. Actually, it's been a while since we've seen

you. So you've got Allison, who is actually Allison. I'm going to let you introduce yourself and tell tell our listeners hopefully they will be aware of you because I remember us from you know, back in the day. But it's been a while since we've seen you. So Allison is a I'm gonna say she's one of our resident practitioners. But please, yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself. Alison. Remember hi everyone, my name's Alison.

I will call a psychotherapist and I write on relationships. I'm very passionate about all things relationships. Yes, it's good to be back on talking points. It's been a while, but yes, it's good to be back. Thanks for having me. Welcome, lovely to see you, and yes, looking forward to hear your words of expertise on our subject today and joining us. I guess we're talking about siblings now. I have siblings, both Zenya and Pedro do, so we can maybe hear a little bit about our experiences

too. But we've also got two brothers on I didn't I heard the names before, and I didn't necessarily I know one of them to discover. It's a small world, as they say. But we've got Andre and we've got his brother Ruel, so he wants to go first. But okay, let's go to Andre. Tell us a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself, and yes, I had to our listeners for us. I'm good as from everyone, so man names areas as just mentioned. I was born in barbadist

to My father was a principal when I was born. He became a pastor later on. So I grew up in Barbadis and left Barbadas in my early twenties to come to Europe and eventually made my rat in the UK. I am a husband, father of three, love seeing a cappella music, love playing badminton, loved playing volleyball. So if you want to get me engaged me in any of those activities, I'm game anytime. Cool cool, Well, I can testify with the singing. So now I've actually sang on a

couple of things with yourself. So yeah, oh good, oh good. So we'll go to your thank you Andre gave it to your brother Ruel. Yes, when that's right? Okay, cool? Cool, I re mind. So I'm well, unlike Andrea, was born in Jamaica, but I grew up in Barbados by the time I was born, and my dad was already a pastor, So I got that's a that's an interesting amic. I moved to the officially move to the UK ten my husband as well. I am a graphic designer, photographer, and I love to sing as well,

a cappella, choral music, the works. Yeah, that's that's pretty much me. Okay, great, So at the two of you, who's I'm looking at the both of you? Can the listeners out there their goods on zoom? So I see their faces? I know I am. I going to put my foot in it right now? Dare I ask the question? Who was? Yeah? What's the order that you cover? I'm not sure that's the right easy way to put that. But who's older? Who's younger? Okay? Okay? And do you have other siblings as well? Okay,

okay, cool difference between two of us? All right, okay, but yeah, okay, okay, Well, thank you both for joining us today. So, as I said, we are celebrating National Siblings Day, which was towards the end of last week. Now, I guess what we are looking to. It's a it's a sort of a day that's celebrating brothers and sisters right across the board, I guess. And you know it's really

important to celebrate and recognize. But everybody in their own right, what happens between you and I guess we're going to talk unpacked today kind of what we think about that. Hopefully you, like I said, you can join in that conversation with us today. But yeah, National Siblings Day, we're having hopefully two other siblings aboard your sister as well. Yes, and Jella should be joining us, and Pedro's wife and are twins should be joining us shortly

as well, so we will have a full house. And yeah, we'll hear all the dynamics of that brother's sister relationship. Yeah, our siblings are a gift from God. It's interesting because I was at Balham today and it was a family Ministry's day and Sister Laura, I say, preach today and obviously we're talking about families in general, and you know, one of the points we used to make in that children are really important, you know,

within a family dynamic. Now that's obviously going to be different for everybody, but I guess there's something to be said about a family that has there are siblings, And it's quite interesting when I sometimes I've spoken to a couple of my friends who have been who don't have siblings, and I guess their experiences are very different, and their relations relationships with other people can be very different as well. Quite a few that I spoke to her a bit like,

actually I kind of wish I did. I think as I've got older, they've obviously made friendships and what have you. But as a younger child, they were often sometimes wondering I wish I had siblings, but equally, but I was like, yeah, but did you not feel that you kind of then got everything? And it was something like, yeah, I suppose so, but I think I would have liked. All of their friends had siblings, so they always wanted what somebody else had, So I thought it was

kind of an interesting one. But you know, mass is always green eye, isn't it. That's what they said, That's what they say, so if you're in a very strained relationship with your brother and sister, thinking, you know what, it should have been just me, or it could have been just me or whatever. And that's the that's the million pound question, isn't it Is it better to go it alone or know? Is it good to have siblings or is it as a single child, you know, you

get to choose. That's the beauty of that relationship. You choose your friends, you choose the people who are around you in that sort of relationship that bond. But as siblings, you don't have the choice. That's true. Who you get, that's true, that's true. Funny story I can share. Sure. So as a child, I always wanted a brother and sister. I always my parents for a brother and or sister. And when I stopped asking, when I got fed up allipying, they just meet him.

That's when my brother turned up. So wondering why is it you wanted? Why is it you wanted a brother and sister? Well, both my parents were teachers when I was a child. My father was a head master. My mother was a teacher, which was quite occupied a lot of the time, so I had to occupy myself. I didn't have any cousins around growing up, at least not in Barbarous. My cousins were in Martinique, So

my spare time was spent amusing myself. I was standing in front of a mirror, make these holsters, a lot of paper and a gun, and stand in front of a mirror and have a standoff with myself. When you try around me, you walk ten paces and you're trying to shoot. That's how I use myself as a child, I'd use my imagination a lot. So I didn't have anyone to play with. I didn't want to help occupy my time. I was one of the brothers, so I could cheer with

do things together, you know that kind of thing. Okay, okay. And he used to teach the trees. You still have a whole classroom out of the trees in the yard. You know. It was hilarious. Okay. So with everybody here, Alison, do you have brothers and sisters? I? I, yeah, I do. Actually I have a I have a sister who is same mom, same dad, and then I've got six half siblings as well. Okay, so yes, quite quite interesting. And I didn't get to really find out about or know my other siblings until I

think last year sometime last year. So it's been quite an experience, quite an adventure for me, and I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased. We really look alike, we have a lot in common. It's been an interesting journey. But yeah, okay, so we're all we've all got siblings here and obviously depending on where things are in terms of ages and everything else. I mean, when we were younger, it's similar to Andrew. Was it a case if you wanted siblings or does anybody really want to be an only

child? I don't know, but yeah, did you Petro? Yeah, there's always I because I like Alison, I have well, I don't say I don't. I cain'te saying the word. I'm gonna say half brothers and sisters. My father had four of us, so I had an older sister and a younger sister, but they wasn't around that. We was around each other. But then when I moved to the States, I was all by myself and I actually loved it. I just loved it being the only child. I just do what I wanted to do, and I was kind of

I'm kind of a lone in that sense. I just liked it being alone, just being left alone. My mother would go to work and then I could just have the house to myself. I actually just enjoyed it. I would sit there with with you know, drugs, gallons of ice cream and eat ice cream and watch TV. Yeah I was, I was. Yeah. I would just you know, always get peanut butter and sugar and put the peanut butter on the spoon and dip it in the sugar and eat. Yes, I remember that. Yeah, you know, you know what I'm

talking about. Sugar, Sit there and get another coma and you get a scoop of peanut butter. Two, get it on the spoon, I mean, big old scoop and then just just the bit in the sugar, do do and then just eat it. It was. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it to nobody right now. But that's a new one on me. I've never heard that one. He knows what I mean, he's heard of himself. I'm not lying. Yeah, So, I mean I I loved it.

But then you know, when I turned fourteen, I ended up like like Alison, where I had My mother got married to my stepfather and he had five kids. Then they had two kids. Then I already had the other three kids, three siblings. I ended up I have like eleven twelve. Then we adopted somebody. We adopted our sister, so we have like twelve, I have like twelve half brothers and sisters. And yeah, and I'm still technically the only child, So I do like that. Yeah,

I think I said that all the time. I'm the only one from my mom exactly. I'm the only one for my mom and my father, so technically the only child. Yes, and my dad has other kids. So I think a bit of as having the best of both wells, I suppose, because it's I mean, it's what it is. I'm the only child. I'm spoiled, you know, everything to me, everything's mine. It is what it is. But obviously, I think relationships, having those relationships,

especially as we've gotten older, we valued having each other. Even though we're not as close as perhaps if we lived in the same household, We've definitely come to appreciate each other more as we've as we've aged. So I guess there's there was benefits of the benefits of then that you will, there was benefits for certain to be anywhere, and I guess I was that from before. With everything there there are benefits and disadvantages to to most aspects of

life. There's there's never a black and white. Most things are gray, and I think what you do is you take the good out of it and you learn from it and you build on it and all that kind of stuff. There are some sibling relationships that are really harsh and horrible and because they're siblings doesn't mean they're good people. So you know, you have to navigate that. So maybe in that case you would prefer to be on your own. And I know of siblings who have come to fist fights and the whole

gamut. And I'm sure Alison will speak to that. It's a process. It's relationships. You know, you get the good, the bad, and the ugly, but you take it as God planned it, and you you move on the best you can. Okay, As I sort of come to you as actually to ask the question, and I don't know where everybody. I'm obviously green real well, there's the two of you under the oldest. But is there something to be said about the birth order and where people come

within their sibling groups? They talk about middle child syndrome. Do the oldest child get it the worst in certain things because I have to take on more the youngers. Sometimes they say they tend to be very spoiled. Apparently that's what they say. So is there something to be said in truth? As in, because where are you pedri young? I think we're always clashing on the show. I already agreeve you know out there that's a that's a theory

that came up in the nineties by somebody called Alfred Older. But then there's been subsequent research that's been done along those lines, and there's there's the way major flaws with that theory, so there's no tangible evidence. In fact, that's a very kind of generalized and simplified view. I kind of feel like that's a lazy way of grouping people, and I'm really, as a therapist,

I'm really contrary to that. There are a lot of factors that contribute to personality types and behaviors of individuals, including siblings, and I think that it'd be all too easy just to say middle children are this way and first children are this way. However, there's been some research that's evidence that first or the oldest child is slight has a slightly higher IQ compared to other children.

Well, I'm the oldest child, and that's me too. I would tend to agree a disagreeing then interesting, okay, I would say, if I can add to that a little bit. So this is coming more from a parent perspective. I have three children, so I have the eldest, the middle, and the last. And I think I would agree with with Alison in the sense that it's too generic to say that the last thought is spoiled, even if it may seem that way generally speaking, because you have

the different aspects of the personality traits that come into play. And I also would imagine depend on the experience of the parents themselves. So with my children, I think this happens fairly often with the first child. As new parents, you kind of experiment and your learning what if this whole parent thing is all about? And you probably would be stricter with that child because you want to set boundaries early. Again, depending on the parent and the second child,

you maybe I was a bit too much with first child. You could actually go a little easier and still maintain the kind of development we want for a child. And by the third child, you're either tired mother as much or he just kind of maybe relaxed to some extent, but it varies depending on the parent and depending the person of a child. But you can also have the aspect where the last child, if they're observant enough and intelligent enough,

will learn from what's been done to the older siblings. And that's kind of my situation my children. My youngest child is learning from the mistakes that the others have made, and she's smart in a way she deals with her parents and how she approaches her parents on what she does and doesn't do, and then it makes the other siblings think she's point or she's the favorite, but it's not that she's favorite, she's just in a way she kind of

navigates her parents. Does that definitely, Yeah, And they think, oh, she's so spoiled, Oh you love her more? You you know, you want to do more. No, she just pays attention. I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that coming because yeah, just learn to do that. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, I'm I'm the well, the oldest, although I do have an older sister who's not with it. But for the morale, it's been myself and two younger sisters

and I would definitely say that. I think I've paved the way in some respects. You know. I guess as you're saying, you know, there's probably things as new parents, they'll do things I'll try, you know, they'll start things more protective, what have you. But actually, I think by the time my sisters have got to a point where they can do stuff, they get away with those stuff. I sometimes think I never was able to do this, you know. I'm like, you've got it easy now,

and whatlse, It's just a different experience. I'm like, Yeah, if it wasn't for me, you'd never be able to do this. It wasn't for me doing all of this, if it wasn't for me getting into trouble first of all, kind of thing. Definitely that. So yeah, So Alison, when your work do you find sometimes those kind of issues do you come up? I think, yeah, I think a lot of a lot of people, And I'm actually glad this is being talked about because we

don't get to hear about siblings relationships a lot. But actually, if you think about it, like all of us here have siblings, and I think we've mostly we've spent a lot of time around our siblings. Our siblings have shaped us in good ways or even more challenging ways as well, and some of those relationships can sometimes be very challenging, not because maybe the sibling or one sibling chooses to be unkind, unpleasant or horrible, but sometimes you know

the environmental factors or cultural factors, parental kind of engagement. I'm listening to the two brothers on the show at the moment, and when one was born, the dad was ahead master, i think, and when the other one was born, the dad was a pastor, and so the kind of outlook from the dad's perspective on life would be probably different between when the first the older sibling was born compared to when the younger sibling was born. So the

experiences will be different. But as children we don't really necessarily understand that parents are going through different phases of life. And when we see differences, that poses that creates problems in the way that we view ourselves, in the level of self esteem, that all confidence that we have in ourselves, and that can sometimes develop in psychological problems or rivalry between the siblings as well, which if it's if those are not addressed, then they just get magnified and spiral

into something a lot more serios. So you know there can be all sorts of factors that contribute to problems between siblings. It's one of the kind of most beautiful relationships and it shapes a lot of people in very positive ways. But when it goes wrong, it can it can go very wrong, terribly

wrong. If I could, well, I was just asking because you've touched on it, and I just want to make sure that it comes across and it's clarified and maybe echoed in the fact that the experience that the child has is shaped in terms of their experience with their sibling, or their relationship with their sibling can be shaped a lot by the parent and where the parents at and you know what stance the parents has, And so I just wanted to

reiterate that because you've said it there. When when I might think I'm being you're being hard on me, or or I'm being spoiled, or you might think I'm being spoiled as my sibling, etc. It's based on what my mom and dad may be experiencing at the time. As you said, as a headmaster, Andre may have gotten the cane or the whatever the case might be the harder angle as a pastor maybe not a vice versa, and we'll dig into that with them, I guess at some point. But I liked

what you said. It is the parental relationship sometimes that shapes what experiences the siblings have and the perspectives that the siblings have. And I wanted to sort of build on that because I'm thinking as a parent. Let's say, I'm

just sort of getting through the nappy stage. I'm sleep deprived, but suddenly, hopefully the routine will come back, We'll finally get a chance to spend time with each other, husband and wife, etc. Am I to consider now that she's an only child and I should bring somebody else into the picture, or maybe you know, the child is throwing a tantrum in the supermarket and I'm wondering, what have we gotten ourself into. At what point do

our parents make a decision on should we do this again? Should we have another child? Is that something that's based on financials, emotions? You know, where do we go if we're speaking to our parents first, what are we saying to our parents about the decision about making more children, having more children and the relationship that this child will have with that child potentially, I hope I'm making I mean, that's a that's a really loaded question. And

I guess that that depends on the individual parents what their preference is. Some people will prefer to just have one child, for financial reasons, for health reasons, the numerous reasons why people might choose to have a large family or a smaller family, and that's an individual or so that's the choice of the people who are having the children. I would say children are a blessing. I would say children change our lives in a way that we can't really explain

pro play to other people. And I think that for some people, the whole experience of carrying a child, giving birth to a child might not be very great or positive, and they might decide, actually, this is all I can handle, and they will be comfortable with that. For other people, and for many people, they will have strong more and they ask Christians pray about it, talk about it because it's something that we can't Parenting is

something that we can't fully prepare for. But psychologically, if we are in a position where we we think we're ready, I say, we think because I've got two children, got two teenagers, I thought I was ready, and I'm finding out every day that you know, it's it's quite challenging, but it's also very rewarding. But I think we need to psycho be psychologically prepared for the fact that having children is a life changing event. It's both

rewarding and challenging. It's something, it's a it's a process where we're going to learn, and we're going to be have to be humble to be learning. If you're the sort of person who thinks I'm a perfectionist, I want to be a perfect parent, I suggest work on your perfectionism first before trying to be a parent, because it will challenge us in many ways. So I think that we need to be humble. We need to have a humble attitude and attitude of learning. We need to be flexible, both kind of

behaviorally and psychologically flexible as well. And if we want to have more than one child, I think it's a good thing. If we can, it's absolutely a good thing because I think that there are a lot of benefits and in my view, where the environment is right, where children are loved and validated and supported, it's absolutely a positive experience for the children to have siblings

can as are. So what you just said, we're talking about siblings, but like siblings from the same parents, would the same thing apply for because in today's world, a lot of times you get into relationship the person already has children. So then it comes that no dynamic of you know, the stepparent becoming a parent. You know, like there's just that dynamic like what do we call you? Do we call you mom? Do we call you?

I think in Bermuda some people call the stepfather cool. They don't say that, you know, does that what that still apply the same way? You understand what acting like if it's not from the same mother, but it's now joining like blended family, you're blending a family, and that that can be a really beautiful thing, having a blending it is it's about, you know, it's about communicating effectively, being prepared for the fact that there's going

to be challenges, and understanding that children don't know everything. So you're you're you're taking on a child who probably will behave differently from what you expect or what you're used to, but you know, remember that that's a child, and remember that you have an opportunity to influence and mold that child. Into into somebody really positive and that sometimes it's going to be challenging, but being prepared for it, being realistic about the fact that sometimes it's going to be

difficult as well as rewarding. I think sometimes when we go into things without really kind of thinking about it properly or talking about it properly, then when we hit challenges, we find it more difficult to deal with them. But actually, if we're going to do these situation has been quite realistic about potentially what the challenges might be or the fact that there will be challenges, then we have more of the mindset to work things through to problem solve when we

start to face difficulties. The process where we're all learning, the parents are learning, the children are learning. Sorry, Andrew, all right, before we started, I was thinking about I was trying to think of all the sibling relationships I could think of in the Bible, and I couldn't find too many positive or good sibling relationships mental and most of them seem to be blended

families or siblings from different parents. And I wasn't sure that that was a factor could be I hadn't given that much, but I just realized, oh, I can't think of many positive different relationships in the Bible, you know,

those kind of interesting thoughts. It's funny that just said that because dis sermon today the other preached on families and he talked about David wanting the his his wife or the other man's wife, and how his son saw that and said, Oh, it's gonna be okay for me to now go and do whatever I wanted to do. So what's what, Like Alison was just saying, like, what we do influences the siblings, like it developed, We developed the children to under too, to be who they are by what they

see, what we carry. Yeah, but because if you notice everything you just said, a lot of the siblings, you couldn't find any good reasons. But look at their parents. That's that's really what I'm going with.

If you look at their parents and what their parents are doing, that's why the siblings were doing what they was doing, because they was they was watching their parents and then saying oh I could do this, and you know and if you really look at it, it's just it was weird because he did the Summonton and I was sending like, wow, that is so true, and then you brought that up. But that's that's why he kind of broke it down a little bit and I was like, okay, that makes sense.

So with a little bit of that, and that's really really interesting, Andre and real tell us a little bit about your sibling relationship. Obviously, and thinking back in terms of Allison was mentioning in terms of you know, where parents are, so your parents are in different places in terms of what they were doing work wise, et cetera. But tell us a bit about your relationship and how that Yeah, what's your relationship like and how has that

developed over the years. And I guess as well as we're talking about, how has that then shaped you know, your decisions to have children, but also to have siblings for your children as well? You know, has that

made a difference for you both? But yeah, well I guess because of the gap, Yeah, because of the because of the twelve years I'm probably to Andrea was probably the annoying brother that was always wanted to be around, the bigger brother, And that was the age for me that he was a teenager and he was getting into a girlfriend and they just wanted to be everywhere.

Well, he wanted to have his own perfect time. But for me, about our relationship from my perspective, has changed over the years because Andrea was obviously more mature and I was much younger. But by the time I started to experience life but what it was, our relationship kind of changed because I was understanding what he was going through in terms of being an adult and so forward. But growing up, Andrea was almost like the filler for me.

Whenever, for example, my dad and my parents won't really speak to me about certain things. Maybe they say about relationships or sex as it were, Andrew was a person that I would talk to about it, or he was the first person I say, hey, I had my first kiss today, but my parents never knew about it, right, So he was almost like another father figure as it was, being the older brother at the age that we were at. And most of the things that I am passionate about

is because of what I saw Andrew was passionate. So my first introduction to a cappella music, the fact is because Andrew had an a cappella group. They were practiced at the house and I'll be the little kids listening to all these harmonies. I'm like, oh, this is amazing. When I grew up, I'm going to do it, so when it was in high school, I found my own kind of quartets and kind of following his footsteps.

So I was almost like a little sheet following a little lamb, following Andrew's footsteps, but also kind of listening to my parents at the same time. But I had a bias towards Andrew more than my parents. Mm hmm,

right, yeah. I think her relationship is quite unique in well unique in that sense because growing up as my father all my father was a principal, the most pressure I had was your your your Josie's son, So you had to be to be your behavior need to be something that the standard right, which was I didn't feel it so much that the early ages in the teams that shifted because then then the stabby expectation raised further when that became a pastor.

But I grew up under the the dual expectation of your Jonesy's son the principal, but you're also Pastor Jones's son, so it's like a double expectation of this high standard of behavior and performance and all the rest of it. When when Will was born, I was a static. I can tell you the day at the time, the name of the hospital. I was so happy, and oh no, I was. I was. I was even when I had to take well with me when I went to things. I

all kept really having a problem with it. I don't reving a problem with it. I always enjoyed we're all being around. The disadvantage that we have is that by the time I, by the time he got older, old enough that we could exchange probably better, I left home. So there's a good period of time where we weren't together under the same roof, and then we kind of join each other again when we're moved to the new case. He was a doubt by that time, and things kind of picked up from

there. We were always able to talk to each other. We be signed together in the same corral as named choir. Our voices are very very similar, to the point where our mother could sometimes shure who she's talking to on the phone. Our personalities or the mean are very similar. I would say he's the more artistic of the two of us, and the more gifted of the two of us. But it's been an interesting it's kind of developed where although I'm the older brother, I don't see him as my little brother.

I just seem as my brother, so that that difference and age isn't isn't isn't kind of enforced or forced on him in a sense. I know that's not always the case in a lot of siblings, but that's that's not a dynamic that we have. Would you what was interested in about? What was interesting about what? So again, because of the age, by the time Andrew left, I felt like a child at that because I didn't have any

anybody wrong me, so that I started to it. I wish I had a little brother as well, you know, because that was he was gone by that time, my parents said. And then I didn't know that Andrew used to play entertain himself in the mirror playing cowboys, because I used to do that as well. But I laughed to myself. I was like, oh you did that. I did that too, and I find it interesting. Well, it's funny you say that because the need that he wanted.

Yeah, because my next question was going to be, how have you influenced each other's kind of with your personalities or behaviors? So that's quite an interesting something that you've almost passed on without maybe not even recognizing or realizing it. So I guess something like that were there are other things that you can You

spoke about your similar interests with singing, et cetera. But was there other kind of ways where you know, you feel like you've influenced each other, not necessarily even from being the older to younger, but even vice versa. And I don't know if it's if it's a direct influence or that well, alan an extra layer to what I just mentioned. And they said, we have very similar personalities. Right, Funny enough, we've both married women who

are very similar in terms of their personalities. Okay, that's interesting. I don't know. I don't know, but there you go. I think that's really interesting. I've I've seen I know four brothers who who married four women who are very similar. And these brothers are very similar as well. So I think that's that's you know, there's something about the preference then that you

have in the people you choose us like partners. And I wonder if there's any there's been anything about how your parents were or what sort of characteristics they had that have made you, maybe consciously or unconsciously make certain decisions that are very similar. MM. That's interesting. They say that boys married, They say boys married their mother and girls married their father kind of thing. I don't think that's the case for us. That's that's experience. Yes, h,

I don't know. I said, it's sorry, go ahead tell you no. No, I was I was almost thinking of your question because our family was probably like a typical nuclear family. There. Dad was, as you was saying, the breadwinner. My mom was more of a support to him, and she was the main one to kind of look after us, at least when I was. She looked up to me because that was always busy word meetings and being a pastor, and she supported him and me as

being a child. And I can't find any any examples of oh, why we chosen like partners were chosen because of how our parents were, But I think it was for me it would be down to the principle who I've been, the character of my wife. She shared a lot of similar things that she wanted in the marriage. That was reflected in what I saw in my parents married, which I admired a lot because I thought they had a for what it was within their time. It was a great relationship that they had,

and my wife wanted similar similar things. So that's what gravid what made me gravitate towards her for most soul being. Okay, I just I just seek here and wondering if the dynamics would be different between the two of you if one of you was female and the other was male. Mm hmmm, that's that I think that would be if if I think, if well were my sister had with my brother, I think only more protective in that scenario.

That's why thing I can really think that the first that comes to mind, as you say, the person that comes to mind another thing, Well, what I'm thinking as well is and and you both show that it can be done, because a lot of parents worry when they're there. The gap is as wird that it as it is in terms of you know, the r the relationship and how you will bond and how you will mesh. For me personally, my son is is fifteen and I I I I can't think

of having another child now. I can't think of I. I can't understand how that will work because he you know, he's fifteen, and I think going into adulthood and here I'm going to be bringing sort of a baby into the picture, and a lot of parents struggle with that decision and wonder whether it will work or not. And you two are very good examples or example is not quite the word, but but show that it can be done.

And there are benefits to having a a a brother or a sister that's old and has gone through it and can sort of helped the younger one along, especially if the relationship is right. And that's also a testament to your parenting or your your parents. And I also wondered if your faith has anything to do with that, would you would you attribute your relationship your your values,

your because you are both very close. You can hear it in how you speak of each other, very complimentary, you know, very loving, caring, And I wonder is that just down to parenting or would you say that's faith or a bit of both. What what would you what would you say? For the reasons or reason? I think some of us also shared experience because again I keep going back to the gap. You know, we weren't

as close because while he was mature, I was still mm hm. And I think we only really got close when, you know, I became an adult and we kind of understood life as as he did. But we also went through a traumatic event together where my dad asked and that brought everybody back that was in Jamaica studying at the time, and Andrew was in the UK, and we came back together and because we haven't seen each other for a while, that was almost like a point in our lives where we will always

go back to as to the fact that we need to continue. We were reminded that we need to stay on taps more. Life is short and that

we should not take each other for granted, you know. And then a few years later there was another point in Andrea's life where you know, it was hospitalized, and it was it was a traumatic event for me because I wasn't able to be there when he was going through it, at least at the peak of it, because I was before I was in the States for a friend's wedding, and I was completely distressed the fact that I wasn't there and reminded me of who I wasn't there with my dad passed away, because

he passed away suddenly and when he came to Barbados, you know, just to see to go through the funeral and what not. So that fear of not being there for him also kind of sparked who I need to pay I need to be more attentive to our relationship. I can't allow months to go by and I don't check in on how I was doing. So since those two points in our lives, at least to me, it's kind of encouraged me or reminded me to stay in touch, don't allow long gaps, and

to check in to make sure everything was there. And mm hmmm, that's cool, that's cool. Okay, to go back to what you were go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I'm gonna go back to what Zenya mentioned before in terms of the age gap and how the parents wondering parents wonder whether they should shouldn't, it has two things. The advantage of having that age gap is that it does it could teach the older child responsibility because they

become part of taking care of their sibling. So it takes that kind of selfishness away from them and have to consider their sibling and have some responsibility towards them. But that also largely depends on how the parents manage that whole situation. They you know, they give too much attention to the baby for getting the older or not really bringing the older sibling into the into the mix, into the whole process. It can cause tension and literally et cetera, et

cetera. So it really depends on how the parent manages that that dynamic. Mm hmm. In terms of running myself, she wasn't well. I was asking whether you saw faith played a part and how relationship is and I am not entirely sure. I would, I would, I would, I would imagine it did. I think a lot of it has to do as well with the way we were, what we saw at home, which which you can't. You can't detach faith from that anyway, because I was all integrated

and aco part of the whole experience at home. But the importance of family is something that was we could It wasn't necessarily spoken of, but you could see in terms of how my my father related to his siblings, how my mother lived to her siblings. That's what we kind of grew up seeing. My mother. My father was very very close to his sister and brothers, especially his sister what's your sister? And my mother although she lived far from

her siblings in different islands, she didn't see them very often. You always, you would always hear a very question of her growing up with her siblings. For this day, if you want my mother to smile and laugh at scrimble an experience when she was growing up. Mm hmmm, Oh that's lovely. Oh about me? Amazing and there, Yeah, I am sorry,

I've clicked on a bus. I don't know what happened there. Yeah, I was just gonna say, yeah, that's really it's that's really lovely to hear because you know, that's the family relationships and the relationship and the things that have brought you closer, and that's developed over the years, whether it's you know, unfortunately so may be sad situations, but it's definitely prompted that and to see the importance of that. So thank you for sharing that.

I see we have two or more of our guests have just joined us, so we're going to meet them, but we're going to play a track for yes today. I picked two sisters here. Oh well, I can't remember their names, but you know them as Mary, Mary Erica and I can't think of her sister's name. But the song is thankful and one thing that you know, we can all say that we are thankful for our siblings.

Hopefully you have positive relationships with them. But let's listen to Mary, Mary and thankful, thank you for my blessings, everything that you Okay, Sometimes when danger was around me, my lad lord, you say, grow what up? Be without Joel love? Be without Joel bring you didn't have the new came to and that word I God, I got it all my own, never removed. They say they never been around. When me up again

to a broad it all. I can always depend on you ever rockway up day was my life mocking say go up, be with that job coming out, be with that Joe's say, you didn't have the joy that next time you go, you wake the ball right movie that he kept saying the night

hid raison high. That's what you say. What you did? You didn't have to get me say my nice where on the floor away don't thank all and thank you on me time where thanks, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't know me hello, let me take you carry me time looking jes say, okay, so we're thankful

for our siblings are brothers and sisters. And yeah, so we've been hearing so far from Andre and Rural, very close brothers from what we can tell from their experiences. Despite their age difference, yeah, which has been really positive to hear, and some really insights with Alison as well. Thank you, because actually there are a lot of as we realized, there are lots of myths around things. You know, we talked a little bit about,

you know, the birth order that makes a difference. But so i'd be quite interesting to hear what your thoughts on our next guests because they have a very special relationship. So welcome Tara and Shara. Tara, some of you may know already, may have heard her on the radio. Petro introduced Tara for us in wife. She's a woman. My name is Tara, and I have read that. But I'm originally from America, United States, Birmingham, Alabama, where I was born and raised with my twin sister and my

older brother. And yeah, my mother and my father were my father's deceased now and I lived which I will not get into all the other entities, but I have now I reside in the UK with my husband and three children. Okay, who is Pedro in case nobody had guessed, Thank you Tara. So, Tara, you are a twin and we're really thankful that we have your twin sister with us today as well. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Yes, well, I'm a twin obviously, I live

here in the United States. So yeah, I sing. I sing a little bit, I sing, not a little well, well, I sing sometime. I don't sing as after as I used to. Okay, but yeah, there's many Okay, who's the who is the oldest side of the two of you? Because I just after the question people always ask, and it's offtened, you know, minutes and a half. Oh wow, okay, okay. And do you see yourself Tara as the older sister. I do, Yeah, of course, you know, I take my role very

seriously. That's my baby sister. Okay, okay, So tell us about your relationship and the uniqueness of being a twin. And that's to both of you. Oh well, I guess I'll start. I love the twin sister. I love that me and my sister grew up together, doing everything together, from and you know, sharing things with her to her. I didn't I've had her, you know, I had my sister that I can lean

on and we always encourage each other. We had moments, well we didn't get along, but I think through it all, you know, the love that we have for each other was just it was unmatched with anyone else. And yeah, I just love being a twin mm hmm. Yeah, it was, it was. It was always a challenge dealing with tars. We both grew up singing together, yeah, and in the church and everything, and our mother she played the organ and everything. So everything was church bound

in our house, you know. So my parents were strict with us and my brother also, and you know, it was just a blessing, you know that our parents can be in our lives the way that they was. And after our father died, that was that was hard dealing with that. When he passed, he had kidney failure, okay, and so but he dealt with that being on dialysis for like what, how was how long was it? He's about fifteen? Yeah, yeah, I would say that was

a challenge in time. And now, you know, in our lives together dealing with you know, my father being having a chronic illness the way he did, and you know, just seeing him come go from a healthy man to a stick man and then you know, us taking turns go and take him to dialysis, and you know, I think our relationship got even stronger because we leaned on each other even more. We always was already a strong net family, but when my father became sick, we just really came more

closer. I would say, understanding, you know, what his sickness was, and how we had to adapt to learning what that was and just going around that whole thing. And you know, I just think that was an opportunity God gave us to grow even closer together as a family. Yeah, most definitely. And my mom, she she always been you know, strong, a strong woman, you know, being there for us twins and my brother, and and she was a bit white. I always have been a

good They always was great parents towards us. You know. I always tried to teach us the right thing to do in life. You know, even though we all go our separate ways and do things differently. You know, nobody used to say even though my sister and are twins, we're totally different people, two different people. Did you find that that's interesting? That's making

me smile. I was just waiting for that moment when you're I like, like, you're two different people, because what struck me is when you both came on. You know, I think immediately there's you know, people are looking at both of you and thinking, you know, while they're looking like, sounded like I can see that the twins, and almost immediately that individuality

almost seems to be kind of like taken away. And I just wondered how you kind of dealt with that along as she went through along the years, the fact that, you know, almost every time people saw the two of you together, potentially they compared you to each other, make comments about how similar you are in certain ways. How was that for you both growing up? Well, I remember, I don't know if you remember, shares were vaguely want my father to be like because my sister wore like a tongboy type

of thing and I was more girly. So my father my sister, why you don't jest of like her sister? Why you don't you know, do things like her? And she just was you know what I'm saying. She was just who she was and what she liked to do. And I think my father and family, you know, was like, Okay, I can accept her for that. You know he wanted I guess he wanted us both to be the same because we was twins. I don't think he actually saw us as two individuals. You know, trying to do our own thing.

I was. I think he knew. I think he knew that I was going to be different from you anyway, because he did. Mom always said that that that it was that we were going to be different. Yeah, you know, he had already had seen that earlier in our child like or

whatever. So that being said, you know, that was that was a hard task, uh, going through us growing up in our personality being different from one another, especially when things came in a more different way when I came out to my parents when I was eighteen, and so that was a hard thing that I think as a n our family home we had to deal with. But we got through it. Yeah, you know, we got through it. And I couldn't have a better relationship with my brother, my

sister, my my children. So it's you know, it was a role you know times here are all wounds. Yeah, and that didn't change who I was as a person, no, you know, but me and my sister had you know it, it was kind of a strange relationship we had at one point in our life because you know, we wasn't speaking yeah and talking at one point. Yeah, and so that was that was kind of hard. To deal with because I missed her a lot and I missed you too, and I I think it was just hard for me to m I

know, that's not Oh, ykay, it's okay, that's okay. Yeah, when they when I met, when I met Tara, it was right about two years to where she came out, So I came in right when they was in the the fighting back and forth and uh, just a lot of bickering between siblings. And as I tell Tom that, you think she don't want to talk to you, but she does. She's just mad at you. So you just have to be patient and you guys just need to sit down and talk and just working. And you know, because I think

talas Pond was just accepting. I think because she had the same just like her father, she had the same idea that her sister was going to be just like her, well not exactly like her, but you know, be sembilant of her. So when she came out and she's not like her, Taal had a hard time accepting that because that was her sister, and she's like, you know, she just had a hard time accepting it. And then I came along, and then I didn't think it just took time for

healing from me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm saying. And then like we was talking about this this week, and I think, like, you know, God put people in your place, and I'm not trying to take credit on it. I'm just saying I think when I came into Tara's life, I was able to talk to her and help her to understand and to be more accepting of her sister in that sense. And I don't mean to say it like that, but you know what I mean, I listen. I just mean like, just you know, that's your sister.

Don't matter, you know what, the differences you have. You need to have a relationship with your sister and your brother no matter what, because when it comes down to it, it's still a family. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, I had to realize that, you know, we had our own paths to take right, you know, and I had chosen my path and she had chose hers. You know. I think I was just trying to be more dominant, you know. I was just trying to like, this is what you need to do, and this is

how you should you know, live your life. And then I had to realize that no, I had to. I had to ask God to really help me with that because I just couldn't accept the fact that my sister chose to have a different lifestyle than I did. But I'm not I was hard for our parents too. It was hard for my mother and my father. Like I said, you know, we grew up you know, in church all the time, you know, so you know, it wasn't an easy

thing for me to come out and tell them that. But you know, sometimes you get hard, you get tired of keep them secrets and stuff, and so I just wanted to be my authentic self and be honest with who I was with my parents, you know, telling them the truth about me in what I was going through at the time. So you know, once all of that got out, you know, yeah, you know I had to deal with the consequences of buying all of that. But you know,

it's better now as far as I can say that. It's like as a time here our wolves, both our whole family, and now we can come together as one and still love each other, you know, the way we insupposed to. So, I mean, what you've just described is like really clearly illustrates the really special, very close bonds that you share us twins, but then also that each of you is an individual at the same time.

And you talk about growing up in the church, but actually you were both in the womb at the same time, and that process of growing in the womb is part of life, and a lot of our experiences are shaped when we're in the world. It's actually a lot stronger than with others as well, and unconsciously there's a part of twigs that just want to be very close and want to be very similar to each other, but then at the same

time, each person wants to be an individual as well. And sometimes one of the most challenging things for parents is to bring up twins or more than one child at the same time, born at the same time, because you're trying to understand these people as individuals, but also you know, for practical reasons, you're doing the same things to both people at the same time.

So in the mind sometimes it's very very difficult to figure out the fact that yes, you're treating both in very similar ways, but you're having to get to know each person as an individual for yourself and then treat them as individuals. And I think that we need to give credit to parents who have more than one children at the time, because they have a lot of work on their hands when those children are Yes, you guys didn't say like when you

guys were growing up, you did everything together. Yeah, yeah, we did. We did to the point that was nauseating when I met them. They did everything. If they went to the if one was going to the d V to get a hit, they get a hit shot for the d m V, for the photo, they both would go like why just go like they both everything. They went to the grocery store together, they went to the park together. They did. I was like, it was just

that's what we did. Yeah. Yeah, my sister and I was very popular in our town where we see and so you know a lot of people knew who he was, you know, especially when we were singing different churches and stuff. You know who didn't know you know, yeah, the singings, so you know we was we was our It's poppling in that way too, you know, because people loved she singing a lot, and we haven't

sung together in a long time now. Her whole thing, Oh, I see a reunion coming on here for that then maybe a lot of things on today. In fact, yes, It's interesting because you're talking about you're sort of individuality, but you did something very similar. Did you have any sort of special and sometimes they talk about twins having special languages between them or particular codes, or just did you ever finish each other sentences? Or the weather's

feeling well? For some reason, I give a call and I'll be like, yeah, how you doing. She was like, I'm not feeling worth a girl not feeling well? You know, it could just it's just like we just I just knew something was wrong with her. I could just call it like I was just thinking about you. I was thinking about you too, and then we'll call each other, you know, about the same time. Yeah. So it's always that thing. I always knowing something's up with

my sister. She can't just call and stay tired. I'm like, no, what's wrong? You know me too? Yeah? Yeah, just made a point. And it's true. During high school, even though they were twins, they all they we talk about all the time. They had separate friends. Yeah, yeahs friend and shows friends with our times friends, which I thought was red because you would think as siblings you would have the same at least some kind of group like the only friends that had was the ones

they sang with. Everybody else was totally different in the sense of who they hung out with or who they did things with. Is that normal? Is it something? But what we we we we had the same friends, we hung out with with people together when we was coming up, you know what I'm saying in our younger days, you know. So we we uh we had groups and stuff that we was in, you know, different singing groups

around town, and you know what I'm saying. And we would have to travel before that, and uh, and especially when our mom played for us, so she was our personalized musician, you know. So she she will play for us on different occasions that we had to sing at. And yeah, it was just a joy of having her, having my mom, you know, uh train us in the way that she wanted us to be as

far as vocalist vocalists and stuff like that. Yeah, and so you know it was It still would be great now if we can get together and sing with mom and and and and have that reunion that we need to have to you know, give God a little praise, you know, never get tired of giving God praise at all. Yeah, Yeah, I mean petro Toine

sa her question. I think, yeah, that's it. Tastes come on, and it's actually healthy to be encouraged for twins to have their own They can have friends in common, but to have their own individual like groups of friends as well. And if you're buying gifts, please don't buy one card for two people, you know, things like that they both have to get a gift. Like in case of this week, and I have we have three kids, and we went to church today and we were supposed to go

to dinner, but I knew I had to do talking points. I said, like, it's gonna be too much for me to do. My son wanted to go because his friend was there and another two friends were there. The girls wanted to go, but I was like, no, as more as age let him go by himself. Tired and what She was like, no, you know, they should be at it. And I'm like, I think that even as siblings, you should have your own set of friends, and that just because one is doing one thing, the other doesn't have

to do it too. Yeah, I think that they should be able to do things separately, learn get their own like footing in a sense, you know, friendship wise. You know, Yeah, I agree, and I was just gonna ask Alison, you know what sort of tips can you You mentioned a few in terms of how parents can encourage live individuality because people society would have to was sometimes, you know, bring ce twins as one person often at times, you know, rather than the unique people that they are.

So how would you say parents could encourage that individuality because we might find things like dressing in the same clothes or the same colors, that kind of thing. Well, I never I never liked you went dressing like my mama used to pull that stuff all the time. I never did like that. You know, I want to I just wanted to be my own person. I want to dress my way. I want my hair to be a certain

way, you know. I just I didn't like all the stuff my sister like, you know, she was more, uh make up and like stuff like that. But you know, I won't make up sometimes when I wanted to, you know, when I want to dress up. We both dressed up and stuff, but you know, I was just I just I just had my own dying going on, and so we I never did like the twin dress up. Some people like it, some people don't. I didn't

care for work like that did you one time doing that? Your mim put you in a dress you didn't want to wear, so you messed it up on purpose, so you can wear what you want to do. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to love your spot. I'm just saying I just you said that. It made me think of the story that you guys were telling me how you had. He was like, I'm not wearing this dress. He doesn't you did something to it. But but but I had to that my mama made me. So weren't no, you weren't no where it

is. You weren't go where my mom and dad made or made me and my wedding stuff. So you know, when I got old, I was yeah, so you know, you know, we basically you know, had to do what we were told. So yeah, I mean, in terms of like what what parents can tell, I think, you know, it's it's really really important that parents take time to know their intifu children, regardless

even I was gonna say even twins, but yeah, especially twins. Yeah, and that's that's really important because nobody, nobody just wants to be treated in like like a general case. Everyone's an individual and it's really important, and each child is unique. Each child is different. Get to know your what your child's strengths are, and really highlight us and praise them and compliment them for their strengths. Please do not compare people. You know, we

each one of us is very different. Each one of us has different preferences, Each one of us is unique, so you know, recognize that and don't compare people. Don't compare siblings. Don't compare siblings to their your children to their friends, or anything like that, because that's potentially very detrimental.

Find interest that everyone, you know, get people to be interested in other people's interests as well, and appreciate what the other person's about, what the other person's hobbies are, and you know, just get people to do different things as a family so that you can get people to learn to live as a community and really appreciate each other social skills as well. Encourage people to nago siate. You know, people are going to have differences, people are

going to have disagreement, and that's normal. In a family setting conflicts is normal because you get to learn a lot about yourself as well as learn a lot about the other person. We can pretty much say a lot of things is how we say it. So parents have a responsibility to help their children to communicate effectively, socialize. If that's the work together, you know, those are the things that are going to keep them together. And it doesn't

matter where they are, it doesn't matter what they're doing. If they grow up knowing how to appreciate each other, communicate effectively with each other, problems solved together, and just value and respect each other, I think you know we're going to have really close families and really kind of happy communities. But parents have a very very important role to play. And I know that parents are not perfect because I know that we've touched on parents and we can sometimes

be quite critical of how parents have performed in bringing up their children. But let's remember that parents themselves have their own past, their own history, their own potential traumas that they've experienced, might not have addressed, and are not

perfect. We only need to be good enough parents. We don't have to be perfect parents, and yes we will make mistakes mistakes, but you know, when you know that you've made a mistake, or you know that you've compared your your between your children, please take the time to apologize, take the time to understand pain, understand their heart, and and just take the time to listen, just to listen to each person and try and understand where

they're coming from, because sometimes unconsciously we pass on negative narrative, negative messages, not because we don't love our children, not because we want to hurt people, but just because we just are not aware of it or we don't know any different. So it's a learning process and we need to be humble in that process. You're a resident counselor. It's so full of wisdom, and I take from that the communication and the love being the overaarching principle.

Even Sharon Tarry, you speak about a time when you separate, then there was sort of like a conflict that you had to resolve. And here is Elson saying that this is a process that you have to teach and instill in your children as they are growing up, so that when these conflicts come, as they will, we know how to navigate them and how to and how to get beyond them. And that's such a crucial, such a crucial point. Yeah, cool, Well, second, third or fourth, that message

definitely, definitely it has been. It's been really good, and you know, we're coming towards the end of our show. But we've got one other person who has joined us today, and I'm not going to say I'm not going to send a time biased or anything, but I'd like to say she's probably with the best sisters in the world. I mean, you know, don't have So I'm going to say, welcome to my sister Samantha, who's joining us from the US as well. How are you doing so, lil

hi. Yes, we just finished our service, so I'm kind of trying to go in between. So sorry I couldn't join earlier. But great to see everyone, and yeah, it's great to be part of this conversation. Thank you, thank you. And I'm based in Connecticut in the in the US. Yeah, so we're part of a mission church. So our main church is Mount Zion Santa Adventist Church in Hamden, Connecticut, but we're part of a mission church based in West Haven. So we've been doing that since

twenty nineteen. So it's called mission called I'm sorry, there's a mission and it's called Victory Rose. Yeah. Now, my father's a pastor. He was a pastor of a church in Connecticut and New Haven, Oh, which I can't remember at the time. He I wonder if that's Oasis Hill. I wonder if it's that. I can't remember, but I know he was a pastor there. Yeah, in Connecticut, right off of forty two, by the Dairy Queen and you go down, make a right and it's like

by the train tracks nowhere, but I don't remember the name. When it comes to food, I'm gonna know where everything's that. When it comes to those are your landmarks? Is it? That's my landmarks? That's right, every queen, that's right. So okay, well get it jumping very quickly, and she say, for those who don't have the benefit of the visual, just let me just let you know that our siblings look so alike.

You know, I'm looking at Andrew, I'm looking at Royal, I'm looking at Shower of Sharon Tower, identical twins, but you can just see the similarities and beautiful faces. And for those who don't have the benefit of seeing that, I just wanted to throw in it. And they sounded like you would have noticed that, just very very similar voices. Well it's really interesting, you say that, said yeah, because they move exactly exactly. But

it's interesting. For many years there are so many. I don't think Samantha and I look alike. I think we probably have mannerisms that are similar. We probably sound quite similar. But for many years people didn't know we were sisters, to a point that we actually started a Facebook a Facebook page or something that said pictures of us and been like, yes, we're your sisters because it sits together and suddenly realize, oh wow, you two are sisters.

It's like yeah, I mean, and then they'll be like, yeah, you look alike. It was like, I don't think we do, but you think you think that's just what features. I'm sorry. I was going to say for the for the sake of the listeners, because I almost end on a guess the sibling if someone said something, I guess who the sibling is. So it's about the tellers, Okay, from your perspective, and I put it out there as well, what would you say our relationship

has been like her sisters? Yeah, so, I mean I think when we were younger, we definitely had a you know, challenges, and I think, you know, being the second child, obviously there's a person already in place, and I often wished I was actually, you know, older, and you know, I felt like at times I was missing out on things and Angela would go off and kind of do stuff with their friends, and I was having to you know, stay at home because parents would be

like, nope, nope, you know, old enough yet to go often do that, and so then I felt like I kind of you know, got a big, big for my boots kind of thing. And often then we're you know, back chat and we fought. We did fight, and so I would say that to be honest, as you know, younger children, we didn't really get on. We did it, we argued, and

there was our thing. But I think has been interesting is that, you know, obviously then Angil left, she went to university, and now I'm at home, so I'm obviously getting you know, more of the attention from the parents. And then eventually I went off went to university as well, and I think, you know, during that time, we got much much closer. And when we reflect, like it wasn't seen losing our dad and you know, just going through kind of just different challenges has really you know,

kind of brought us closer. So I would say, right now, you know, we're really close. I mean, it's not probably a day that doesn't go past where we don't speak and you know, phone in like a couple of times a day and things, just checking in and if I can't get hold of her, I'm like what because you know how Angela can

be with her phone. Okay, say no more? All right? Yeah, So we're really close now and just like got this really great like friendship and you know, sisterly bond, which you know, I wish it was there when we were younger, but then sometimes things happen for a reason, and then you know, circumstances, you know, just change things that you know, you get closer. I think definitely, And I think Andrea and Real you were saying the same similar sort of thing in terms of the age

difference. I guess at certain points the age difference seems I mean, there's only what four and a half years between us, so it's didn't see that big, but at certain ages it seems very vast. So yes, for me, probably when I was I don't know, late teens, early twenties, it was just like I've got this younger, annoying sister who wanted to with me all the time, but I was like no, you know, but as we've got older, I guess that kind of age difference narrow seems

to narrow and really doesn't make a difference anymore. You know, we kind of hang out, We've got a similar circle of friends. I think what was really hard for me is when Samantha actually moved abroad, it was like part of me has left me, or she has left me literally, you know, And that was really hard because again, you know, that kind of bond that you have, you lean on somebody, somebody's always there, suddenly isn't there. And I've had to kind of be like, Okay,

you've gone. But you know, the beauty of technology is that we can still stay connected, you know, and I had to develop that and as obviously you know, similar traumatic experiences, you know, bonding even closer to that, as you've said, you know, has been a beautiful thing. And even now, you know, still stuff going on. You know,

Smantha is always there listening to me, ranting, you know. And it's interesting as much as it's funny, because you're saying that we used to fight a lot, and one was thinking, I almost don't remember that, except I do because I have a few scars. I I remember I have a very long scar on my leg, which I cut, interestingly with a razor blade. But Samantha and I kind of made up this story that we'd actually been fighting. We hadn't been fighting at this point, but I guess because

we fought a lot, it somehow seemed believable. It really wasn't believable, but that's what we told up. It's kind of thing to sort of stop me from getting into trouble. But yeah, I look back and I feel like I don't really remember those times necessarily. And Alison, we haven't really touched on the whole idea of conflicts and stuff, and you know, coming very close to the end of the show. But interestingly, and Andre said

this at the beginning. When we think about our biblical examples of siblings, a lot of them really aren't very positive relationships. There was a lot of in fighting. I mean, I guess the first murder in the Bible was between brothers, you know, imagine that. And sometimes it's really sad to

hear when people when siblings do have conflicts. You know, that's natural parts of life, I guess, but to a point where they're going to cause harm or in canaan Abel's case, actually kill one and you know, they killed one killed the other, you know, yeah, totally to get to that point. So how could you know, how could I mean, obviously conflict resolution, there's many factors to that, but how can I guess parents encourage that sort of I don't know, could you call it positive conflict or

been able to resolve things? You've touched on that before. But as we get older as well, which sometimes our life choices in the past we go can often be the cause of the conflicts, how can we approach that? And especially you know, we're people of faith that you know, actually we

can kind of draw on those experience as well to help with that. I mean, I think most family is have at some point will have dysfunction, and if you've got siblings in families, those siblings might face conflicts at some point. I mean, when Samantha talked about you fighting with you, that's like seventy four percent of young siblings fight, you know, have like arguments

with each other. I think something in the range of like fifty percent have like pushing and hitting, and and then there's like it's slightly less percentage that have actually had physical fights with each other. And it doesn't necessarily mean that

the siblings don't love each other. You know, that's the irony. Siblings will have disagreements because as soon as another child is born the older siblings is that as a threat because you've got now, you know, more than one person find for the parents' attention, you know, and there's a sense of insecure charity. And the parents, like you are alluded to Angela, have a lot of responsibility in ensuring that they create a safe space for each child.

So having one to one time with each of their children, getting to know that they want one basis, making time for them, validating how they feel, and not dismissing how they're feeling, involving older child, like with the case with Andrew, to look after the younger sibling. All of that's really important because there then to be part of a community. Having said that, people are different, and part of the reason why there's conflict is because

people have expectations that are not met. Now, if you're living your little bubble, you don't have all of the social skills that you need to relate effectively at every level. So you're in that process of learning. You're going

to make mistakes, You're going to have certain expectations. Other people are going to have expectations, and that's part of me that wants to kind of say, you know, parents should try and get help when they know that, you know they're going to have children, Try and get some parents in classes, try and you know, get some outside help, just to have an idea of how to navigate these relationships within the family, because it's very important

that we are aware as parents that we need to give each person their time. We need to make each person feel validated and feel special, and I think when we do that, the siblings will will kind of learn from that behavior that's being modeled by the parents. If you give all the attention to one child. So I'm thinking of Joseph in the Bible. We all know the story of Joseph, hopefully, and you know, it's not that Jacob didn't love other sons, but he loved one a lot, and he showed

a lot of favoritism to that one and look what happened. So it's not that the Yeah, it's not that the other siblings didn't like Joseph. It's just because they felt belittled, they felt dismissed. And I think that's the responsibility that parents have to validate each child, to take time to get to know each child, but then also to prepare their children for disagreements. So when the disagreements happened, listen to each person, validate each person, and

teach them how to negotiate, compromise and meet each other halfway. And I asked a very great question, Alison, how much of conflict resolution between children should a parent get involved in? And I know you've got five minutes.

I don't know if that's a big question to unpappen, but how much it should should you get involved in as a parent, or how much do you leave for the children to I think when the children are a lot younger, I think you absolutely should get involved and teach them how to be because they don't know. As they get older, tell them you know if you do this, if you take this action, there's going to be consequences, good

or bad. So you know you can go ahead and share, and you can go ahead and refuse to share, but just remember, if you don't share, don't expect the other person to want to share next time when they've got So there's consequences to every action. Obviously, there are limits. Obviously

we need to have boundaries around everything. If something's very serious and one person's going to really harm the other person, or the state of mind is not clear enough to make the right decisions, then you do have to step in. But I think as the when the children are young, say between one year old and five years years old, you have to teach them, literally

have to teach them. As they start to get older, you sit them down and tell them, well, you've got choices, you can you can make your decisions, but just bear in mind the consequence of this decision could be a B C D for this other decision could be E F G H. So that they're clear about so they can negotiate as well, because they need to lend that as well. So you're doing yeah, because I was as you asked before you ask the questions, and I was actually thinking the

same thing, especially siblings that are close to each other. But my two youngest they are because thieves, they're right okay, but as tight as they are, they fighting just as ferociously. And it's it's it's a kind of fine line knowing when to get in there and just step out and let them learn how to navigate those conflicts because they will have them. It's inevitable, and like Alson is saying, guiding them alone, sometimes you have to be like a like a referee. Okay, you're trying to talk. Okay,

now you're trying to talk. And let them learn to listen to each other, hear each other, and find figure out what's going on, and learn to those tensions because and you can't always jump in because they if anyone were to attack the brother, the sisters going to jump into fight and vice versas. All they have each other's backs, but they also have these conflicts and they finds a bit more when the parents are around. So you have to

learn to understand what those fights are about. What's triggering those fights. Is it just fighting for what you think they're fighting about, or is there an underlying reason why they're fighting. Oh that's that's a good one. And you know what this is. This is gearing up for part two. I think start kicking each other. They always pushing each other, buddy. They always

know exactly what to say to the next person. I think, I think we're gonna have to get you you all back on for a part two because I think the whole conflict within siblings I think that's a whole nother that's a whole other show, I think. So yeah, we're coming with the time has spent, the discussion has been fantastic, and it's been great to have you all on this show today. And I'm kind of serious about the part

two because I think there's a lot to be said. There's so much that we can talk about, and as Alastair you said after, the sibling relationships aren't necessarily talked about as much interestingly enough actually, so I definitely think there's a lot more we can unpack here. So I want to thank you everybody for listening, for joining us. I'm gonna we're going to end with the prayer. There was so much more I could say, and I appreciate everybody

coming on. Sam. We know we're going to talk a little bit more about other dynamics as well, but we will save that for part two. Andre I understand you've offered to pray for us to close us out, So I thank you for listening and joining us. So let's pray the heaving Father. We thank you so much for the gift of love, for the gift of family, the gift of siblings. We thank you for this opportunity where

we can learn to practice self sacrifice, the practice humility and respect. Repeat that you will be with each of the siblings present here as we continue to grow in our relationships with each other and with you until the next time where we can learn more about how you've taught us to reserve conflicts, to resolve conflicts and live life in love and you know the most. Thank you for a father and Jesus name. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining

us. It's been talking point. It's been great for joining to joining us and do listening for the rest of the weekend shows. Tomorrow, I'm going to play us out on another Sisters step Sisters, the Clark Sisters with their song Blessed and highly Favored. As we said, brothers and sims, sisters are a gift from God and they value all their relationships you've had here. So thank you for joining us. It's been talking point from me Angela Dania

and for all our guests. Thank you. Have a good night, Thank you bye everyone, Bye bye. Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song