Siblings Part 2

Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song. Good evening and welcome to Talking Point. I certainly hope you had a wonderful sabbath. The sunshine has been glorious. I hope there has been sunshine where you are, whatever the weather, I hope you've been basking in the sunshine of God's love. I'm in the hot seat today. I am joined as usual I should say, my usual co host or my partners in crime, Partners in Christ, Partners in Christ.

I've got Angela who's joining us from Balum actually on zoom, and Pedro who may or may not be here. I think he possibly disappeared for a minute, but he'll certainly be back, I'm sure, as well as a number of guests. It's a full packed house this afternoon, and we'll have them introduced themselves in a little bit. As usual, we start our discussion with um talking about our weeks, and then we'll move into the conversation.

It's the Siblings Part two. We had a part one a few weeks ago in celebration of Brothers and Sisters Day, and we got so full into the conversation that, as usual, we thought a part two was warranted just to kind of settle the discussion. And I think we don't usually get to the party. We always say we will have a part two, but it never

really manifests. But it has. And some of the persons who were on last time I hear again Rouelle pet Ruell and Andrea saying good afternoon to you, and some of persons who were are not here at this time, but we'll have a discussion anyway, recap a little before we move forward. I think as well, it is going to be the Brothers and Sisters or National Siblings Day. Sorry it's National Siblings Day. Last time. It's Brothers and Sisters Day on the thirty first of May. Sorry for that, And that's

why I think the timing is right to have that siblings too. As we discussed just a little bit of housekeeping. This live programming today started with at the Request show, followed by tell me a Story that was from I think that comes from two thirty till four, and just before us was you See Why, which is formally Bricks Kids. That's normally from four to five, talking point from five to seven, and this evening possibly potentially we'll have a

music show with myself Saturday night pray is from seven to nine pm. Right, with that out of the way and with Pedro back family in his seat, Pedro, how was your week, guys, Angie Pedro? Oh, actually, my week started off fantastically. I remember actually when it actually was. I basically he was celebrating my birthday at a bit of a birthday celebration Sunday and Monday, now my birthday. At the time, I was so busy, and I remember being on the show and actually completely forgetting it would

be my birthday that week. However, because I was so busy and had loads of things on, do we have time to celebrate? I'm like, I'm going to celebrate for the whole year, But myself was actually over at the moment of America and her and some other friends kind of schemed behind my back and she used me to hotel and Spa a couple of days. So yeah, so we spent a lot of time a QZ steam room. They had a full body mussage in the dream. That's a really lovely foodence.

It's really nice Nepoalese restaurant. So yeah, it was a lovely way to start the week. So yeah, that was really good. And then I guess the most of the week, you know, just back at work as usual, not too too stressful, although I found I was actually quite productive this work this week and got quite a lot done, so that was good. Um. So yeah, being quite happy to see the weather being sunny as it is. I'm determined to think that spring is here. Um,

spring has sprung, Spring should be summer. Yeah, spring was a bit hit and mist to be fair, but yes, we are moving into summer. I'd like to see that. Yeah, it's so, it's been a bull and all. Pretty good week, I'd say, pretty positive week. I know sometimes we always say that, but actually I can stay this week. Actually had a good week. So a happy birthday again. When was your birthday? I was like, yeah, it was much but hey yeah

Patrick, the birthday celebration. Yeah yeah, I know you can't top that, but try Petra. You there, Oh yeah, I'm here, I'm sorry. Yeah, how is your difficulties? Trying to get myself sorted? Worried? How was your week? Petra? How was your week? Oh? I thought that's what it was. My week was good? Um again, it was busy when really fast, Um looked up it was Friday already. Um, not really much going on besides work and the kids and the wife. Deal for a little bit of um swing this in the throat and

stuff seems to be going around. Hopefully it doesn't get to me. Um started with my son, that my daughter, then my wife. So I'm hoping it doesn't, you know, come to me. But otherwise for that, UM, pretty healthy, Pretty well. Enjoy the sunshine somewhat. As I said before, I really don't like the sun. So you know, just you know, trying to maintain and yeah, you need to you need to expand on that. People here where you're saying you don't like the sun

might think what's wrong. And like I said last time, I grew doesn't like the sun. You know, grew up in New York where is really hot. Yeah, and um, but it's a different kind of hot. It's hot to me. It's just hum, isn't it can't have the heat. So like I said before, like it's you know, you're going to a business and it's just like boiling go on a bus is boiling go in your car. It's hot and then the AC takes forever to kick in. It just it's just to me, it's just a different kind of heat.

Not that I don't like it, not that I don't like being in the sun. It's just I just don't like when it gets really hot here because it just doesn't seem the UK is not equipped to handle heat. Yeah, I should say I think that maybe a different, different conversation, different show. But I'm not sure what weather the UK can handle to be fair. But um, we move forward quickly, swiftly better, swiftly we're moving forward.

But yeah, it's it's it's something. Um, and I'm not sure if we're ready for forty degrees again, have mercy, But um, I do enjoy the sunshine and a little bit of heat. It is good for me. Today's weather was perfect. I call it sailing weather. There was a nice breeze um to keep the temperature down and it was just perfect. It was just perfect. So thank you Lord. Um I put a note down this is this is where it could possibly stay for me. Um. But yeah, yeah, my week's been better. UM. I think a

few weeks ago we spoke about it. How our listeners say, oh, oh, you know, you guys have amazing weeks. Um, what's going on? You know you're not living the real life in the real world. Um. And I think for me, when my my my week is bad, I generally don't show up for talking point. Um. So you know, last week I was under the weather. I got a cold of flu and as Petrol said, it is going around and I just kind of sat that one out and Angie so abably ably took over and ran the shows.

But I was listening and it was excellent And I'm back, glad to be back. Still coughing a little bit, but yeah, Covidavid seems to be doing a bit of the round. Yeah again, so definitely as the summer colds and flus king. Yeah, yeah. And I think we still all need to be vigilant, you know. Um, it's not it's not off the scene. It's not it's not gone completely. We still do absolutely need to be vigilant. And I think I read somewhere about some new strain in

China. Whether that's true or not or whatever, Um, we just need to keep our ears and eyes um to the ground. To be fair, I don't think it's really even that it's COVID. I think it's just natural whenever it goes from cold to heat, like what I love. The only thing I learned about the UK or anywhere. Actually when it's cold, then when it gets hot, everybody loses their mind and goes out of my shirt

and shorts. And then it gets cold at night because like even up here, which is where like it was hot during the day and then it just dropped. Yeah, and you're still out in the shorts and a T shirt. Now you get sick because now it's cold your body, you know. So I think it's not just covid. But I think it's just natural flu cold season, yes, where people are just getting sick because they're not dressing properly for the weather. Yeah, that is true. That is true.

Um. I think I tested negatively, but my boss, um, we had very similar symptoms where he was positive. So yeah, I think it's a mixture of both. I think they call it what fluid it's um it's just a mixture of that going around. Um. So we just have to be vigilant and keep our keep ourselves and our immune systems boosted. So yeah,

that's that's the message for for this week. UM. I also kind of wanted to to give a little bit of a recap on on what we discussed on our Siblings Siblings program A few weeks ago and to say that, um, we kind of drew a conclusion that that siblings were worth having. Um, it's definitely good to have someone to share your burdens with and your your joys with. But I want to toss it out to our two specialists

in the house. First, I let them introduce themselves. But the question I want you to mull over, and we'll start with a specialist, but we'll all have maybe a chance to pitch in, is whether it is or it isn't useful to have siblings for our parents or parents to be who are contemplating do we have one, do we have more? Is one easier? Two or three more stressful, more confusion, more problems? Or is it too difficult to answer that question because it's not as black and white, it's

not as clear cut. Or maybe we'll come to a conclusion at the end, but we certainly want to maybe put because we couldn't the last time. We want to definitely put an answer to that if we could. Is it best to have siblings or is it best to go it alone. Let's just pray before we get into the discussion, and then we'll we'll go into the meat of it definitely, Father, Thank you for bringing us together this afternoon. Thank you for bringing the members of the panel, and also for our

listeners. I pray that this discussion would be a blessing to us all in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Right, So, Angie and those of us who were part of the conversation last time, what were your takeaways? What was the conclusion that you drew from the conversation that we had if you can draw your mind back that far, and a lot has happened since, um, but what was the conclusion that you came to at the end of our conversation last timent? And perhaps Angie, I can start with you.

Yeah, I mean I was gonna say, going back to your first question, Um, you know, is it worth as having siblings? I think for me, um, And I think my takeaway from what I can see that people's lives are enriched by the siblings. You know. Um, Now, I guess that could depend on how many and the makeup and what have you, But it sounds like most most of us have had a fairly positive

relationship with our siblings, despite any challenges and what have you. Definitely better being better than maybe being I got to not being an only child, I was for a few years before my sister came. But actually I think whilst the relationship may have changed over the years, all in all, you know,

I think it's it's been a real positive and a benefit. And you know, you have you almost have you know, you'd have instant best friends, you'd have people to kind of share things with, maybe somebody challenge you,

but that there's a lot of growth and learning from that. And I think have I said all of that, with all of those positives, there does sometimes come the challenges with all of that because you are instantly working at dynamics and how that plays out with the best of the family, with your parents. So it can equally be a real blessing. I'm not going to say it's going to be a curse, but it can be tricky and it can be difficult, and I think there are lots of things that complain to

that. I think parents role parents' roles are really important, but I think when you have siblings, even more so you have more than one child, even more so because you you know, what you do and how you are with each of your children can really shape their developmental think going the journey going

forward. But all in all, I think, yeah, it's a really positive thing, and I think it's and I guess, you know, depending on everyone's going to be so unique and different, so you know, there's certainly no m cookie cutter fit for every family dynamicing group and what have you. And I think as over the time I've been sort of speaking to my friends who, you know, they've got lots of siblings or have no siblings, and just sort of seeing their experiences and how different and varied they can

be. I can alway sort of see that as really positive and it's a really enriching experience. M But and there's so many theories possibly around it as well, and I'm sure our practitioners can shed some light on some of that,

I'm sure as well. But yeah, I think it was you know, it was a really fascinating conversation that we had, UM and we've had sort of you know, different sets and different types of siblings software and each of those came with their uniqueness and differences, but equally lots of things that we could all relate to, a lot of similarities, a lot of things

they had in coming didn't know they had in coming. But yeah, yeah, I think genes and genetics obviously plays yeah, sort seeing if some of the theories, like you know, does your position in the family, you know, in the sibling lineup, does it make a difference, Like I'm an old I'm the eldest, so you know, can I relate to somebody else who's the eldest? A lot of the times I can, and it's maybe something very different who's in the who's a middle child or the youngest child.

It's quite interesting to see those kind of similarities more completely difference. You have a set of twins on as well, and I think that's a really unique bonding dynamic as well. So you know whether, yeah, whether you

are similar or you're very very different. Fascinating, but you know, that's the beauty God has created as we are, God's great inspiration and I think you know with that comes in uniqueness, sivarians, everything else, and that plays out in our family dynamics and absolutely absolutely M Petro, what what did

you take away? And I think you had a slightly slightly different stance because you were starting with Tara and her sister, her twin sister, M what did you take away from from the conversation, Like Angela said, it's just a uniqueness. Um, growing will be married to tar for seventeen years, knowing her for eighteen Um, just seeing how their dynamic was so different.

Even though they were twins, they were done a good twins. On top of that, it was just their their attitude, their demeanor that everything was was totally opposite. One was to the left, almost to the um. And then also myself growing up, Um, I didn't really have siblings until right. Let mean I say that I had siblings at a young age, but I didn't know my siblings that well, Like we spent time together, but it was very in between. So I kind of almost grew up as

an only child. Especially when we moved from Bermuda to New York, I was the only child. So when I finally then when my mother married and brought on my brothers and sisters from his marriage from his previous marriage, Um, then it was like learning to be a sibling all over again. And that was a dynamic that was that was that was very unique and trying to figure out because you had to try to find your place because all of a

sudden, I got like a blended family. I'm just got this big family and now I got to learn my place and you know, where I'm at, where I belong, where I don't belong, you know. Um, But I just took that it's good to have siblings, um, in the sense of just to have somebody else to lean on, to hang out with. Like my oldest sister, she was always she was stuck with me pretty much. They pretty much just threw on me, threw me on her and said, if anything happens, you're in You're in trouble. So she was

pretty much like, you know, like my my parent. You know, not that my parents was in parents, but she was pretty much It's just like everywhere she went, I had to go. She wanted to go somewhere I had to go too. So but it developed. It allow us to develop a relationship with each other, um as a sibling, as brother and sister, just to um understand each other and and just and confiding each other, you know. So it was good to have a sibling as I got

older. UM. And you spoke there about about the closeness between you two, and I think we'll also unpack that the differences between the eldest we have. I said this before, that we have my relationship with my siblings is a weird relationship. And we talked about this um this past week. And I don't mind saying this because I said to my siblings, we me and my siblings were weird in the sense of that we can go a whole year or two if I speaking to each other, and then when we speak it's

like we never left. UM. But then we can also, um, if something that happens, we can kind of they can we can kind of ghost each other and not talk to each other for a while. Like I haven't talk to some of my siblings over things that's happened for a while, and it's just the way it is. I don't lose no sleep over it.

It's just what it is. I can't control. You know that they may not want to speak to me or they don't really like me at this moment, But UM doesn't mean that I don't still have love for my siblings. I always if they need something that they call me, I'm gonna be there and be like, hey, I got you. But at the moment they're just not you know, just we're just not on the same page. So it you know, it's siblings. UM, Yeah, it's unique.

In that sense. You know, it's I think for me, my uniqueness just that I have such I have siblings from half siblings, step siblings. You know, I'm like really the only technically the only child of my mother besides my brother and my sister, who are actually twins. And so it's just makes it just a weird it just makes my situation a weird dynamic in a sense of siblings because we didn't all grow up from beginning to end.

You kind of like kind of meshed as the years went along. So and it's it's you know, as I said, it's interesting to hear that because it's it's just all sorts of dynamics that make up the family, doesn't it. Um. I'm going to introduce who've been patiently waiting our practitioners, um Dorothy, you've been here with us before. I think I've said it Europe practically our resident therapist at this point. I'm not sure if you want the title, but I'm handing it over to you. And also we've got with

us Kelly Brodrick. Um Dorothy, if you want to introduce yourself, and for those of us who may not have heard you before and new to talking point, let us know a little bit about yourself. Okay, just briefly, I'm a psychotherapist and having in the field for over twenty five years, mainly worked in education universities and colleges. In the last ten years or so, I've been working in private practice. Okay, excellent, Kelly. I my name is Kelly, and I am the integrative therapist. I've been in

practice for about five years. My volunteer at Cornerstone Christian Council in Service as well as the volunteer councilors, and I also have been in private practice for a while and specialize in working with minority communities around attachment and psychodynamic kind of theory, which is around your history in the past. Lovely, but this is your first time to talking point to Welcome to you both as well. So we've we've sort of talked about what we gathered for the last show.

You've heard that we've all got our own little unique family dynamic. But Dorothy Kelly, Um, is this something that it's new to you in your personal and your professional capacity? What do you think about that sibling relationship? Is it? Is it more complex than we can have ever unraveled? Um? What's your take on the relationship. M hm. How it's as you It's as unique or complicated as we want to make it. So when I look in the Bible, the first one is Caine and Able, and look what

happened there? Sibling rivalry. Yeah, um, so there's good things about it. Was it Able who was Caine was the eldest one, and Angela said before she was she was our only child for a certain time till the other one turned out. And then you know, so he was having a great bath. Then the younger one came up and he may have been a

little jealous of how the parents related to the newsborn. And then the younger child is looking up to the bigger brother, thinking, wow, you're great, and whereas the older one is like, you're annoying, you're spoiled. You get on my nerves, black king, you know. So when we look at it from way back then, there's always been some sort of rivalry within siblings. And if I look at my own personal life, I'm one of six, I'm second youngest. Did I like being in a large family

as a child, No, there were too many. And then when we had all the cousins come around, you know, and then my friends were single children getting everything. I was getting hand downs. We shared everything. We had one bite between three of us. You know, everything was shared. No, as an adult, having siblings is my life, is my everything. I couldn't do if I had my siblings. They're my best friends. My sister and I've got brothers who are everything. Do we have the

rivalry and whatever we sought it out now is she's still there? We still sort out our stuff now. You know, we don't have the problems that we did as younger children as adults. Now we can get hard and talk about things and get through them much easier than when I was growing up. So being like being an adult with siblings different. When we look at the research, again, it's as complicated, more depend on the parents than the

siblings themselves. How are the siblings managed? And that's what it is. How do we manage the situation as adults and we work with the rivalry? What is rivalry? The dynamics? How do we introduce a new child? And we talked about earlier about blending families, how do we do that? So it's about managing it all? So is it more it depends on the individuals and how it's all managed. Yeah, it's not as and she said, it's not a cookie cutter approach. It really just depends on the family

and the dynamics of it. And you're You're very right. Parenting plays a very key role and we want to dissect that in a moment, Kelly, anything to add there, So I'm losing my voice. I think Dorothy kind of covered quite a lot of it. I said that it was a lot of it depends on the family mission statement. So you know, that's like that your values and your morals and what you what your parents think are important

and often what is part of that. It's around dynamics. So a lot of it is intergenerational and that also includes trauma as well, so you know, some some of it is passed through into you know, those sibling groups that can create the dynamic you know, between the siblings. I think that you know, is it is it better to have siblings or not have siblings?

It depends on the person that you talk to, because some people have some real difficult situations as a result of having siblings, and you know, for some people that can be you know, that can be quite a tough, quite tough thing to navigate. For the vast majority of people, having siblings is an extension of like a best friend or you know, it's a it's good teaching ground. You know, you learn how to age and forward relationships, you learn how to you know, navigate conflicts, learn how you

know in terms of attachments, you know, things like that. So there's lots of rich learning that you can get from from siblings. But everybody's situation is very, very different. I'm I'm the eldest. I'm the eldest of three, okay, and it would you'd probably say that I may have been. I was brought up as like an only child. There's seven years between me and my next my next sibling, which is my brother, and then three years after him was my sister. So there's many eleven years between me

and my youngest. So I pretty much was almost brought up like an only child, and my brother and sister were like they were created this like a

new family. Because I was seven by the time, you know, my brother came along, so I had everything, you know, I had everything that I wanted, you know, and when he came along, there was a lot of jealousy, you know, and that had to be done so yeah, what I'm gathering from what you're saying is a lot of the relationship between brother and sisters navigated or established by the peer rental relationships, and that

is quite key, Angie. Anything to add there before we move on, No, I mean, I totally agree with everything, but it's really interesting. Kelly was just saying they're about the age difference and how that can you know, the gap between two or three or whatever can make a real big difference. And again, as you said, I guess it depends on also the length of time as well. I made between myself and my sisters.

There's really five between a second one and then I can't even do the masks a lot more between that, so yeah, that doesn't make a difference. I've never need to thought it from that perspective because I guess I'm not how to think of it that way. Um, I'm sure my sister might have a lot to say about that, but yeah, yeah, and again that's where the parents have to really play a huge part in that because if that's not managed or noticed or what happened, then actually that can cause a lot

of problems. And I guess what's set up from being a child can just you know, continue into adulthood and can you know as you get older each presentment for instance, for those years and it could be quite unknown as well. I guess maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that placed one in terms of conflict. You know, there might be an issue, and you can be so unaware of these things to later on in life it comes out and you're like, wow, that happened when we were tear So, yeah,

that's really interesting on that. Well, Andre, you've been You've been very quick. That part of part of what you just said about the year the gap. Oh yeah, it makes some sense now to myself, like my personal self, like I'm like, wow, okay, that makes so much sense because I was fourteen years between me and my brother and sister when my mother had them. I don't you know, I had siblings that was one that's four years older than me, one that's four years younger than me,

but we didn't live agree, wasn't together. So in the sense of being with my growing up with my sibling was I was fourteen, and you're right, you do. I didn't realize I was brought up like as a loner. That displaced why my parents were so different towards the twins than it was towards us, and it just it just clicked. It just literally clicked

my head when she said that, Yeah, it makes a difference. I was the baby of the family for about five six years and it took a lot not to be resentful that that this young man had come into the picture. I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm the baby. I'm I'm the one that should be spoiled, and you know, I'm the one that that should get everything and you know, should be doated on. And you know, six seven years later, I'm like, well, where did he come from? Um? Why why? You know, why why do you need

another child? Um? Surely I'm enough. But obviously, I mean, these dynamics play a role. And again it will impact how our relationship, how will we engage each other, myself and my brother. And it's difficult because of that age gap. You know, we don't necessarily do the same things, and we don't necessarily have the same interests. Um. And it's it's important for us to make an effort to foster that relationship because it may

not come naturally. So that the age gaps definitely make make a difference. Yeah, Andre Royal, you've been waiting patiently. Thank you. Um, just tell us a little bit about yourselves, um, and we want to just talk about your own relationship as the only siblings at present online I think Angie and some bad they've disappeared. Um, so just tell us for those who miss siblings part one, a little bit about yourself and then we'll talk

about your relationship as brother and brother. And do you want to start the ball rolling? Sorry, you're a mute, You're both are my apologies. That's fine. I should know better boy now as Ricky Ricky mistake anyway. All right, So my name is Andrew Jones. Like I'm currently healing from

coaches to slash classon LC some more on the coast East Coast. But I was born in Barbada's Group in Barbadas and was essentially an only child until my brother turned up some ten eleven years later, after I stopped asked for sibling, well, constantly prestering my parents for sibling. Um, uh, well it's clesy. Um yeah, I'll really interest himself and then we will talk about a relationship. Uh. Yes, So my name is LL I currently

live in Portsmouth. Recently at least a year now. Um. I was born into grew up in Barbados, and a little bit of Martinique as well. Andrea also Martinique. He missed up partner, but and it is actually twelve years, not at ten, and he's missing years. That's fine, um, younger brain, younger brain. UM Uh yeah, I'm also married, don't have any kids yet, that's all, UM, tell us a

little bit go on. God, no, I was going to say, I couldn't help watching the faces of our resident psychologists characters listening as each other their already analyzing you. Mus stood up by default anyway, UM tell us about your own relationship you You've already spoken about the divide, the time, the time gap between our the age gap between you both. UM. But I know from from knowing you both that your relationship was very very strong,

UM, very close. Um what what what makes that possible? Even though you weren't did you say that much? If you did, you weren't raised together for most um of your youth or time together siblings was relatively short, um, in a sense that, as we all said, eleven twelve years different when I left home when Royal was still young, but whilst I was

home. No, I would take role with me when I when I went out to some extent of course, when I got involved in singing UM, so I sang an a cappella group from young and he would be there present, kind of taking it all in UM. But when I left, we

communicate by letter every you know. And again I actually stumbled across a card that Royal wrote me UM when he was I think it probably about seven years old or their boats and I started came across it just UM last week a week before, and so that that's how our initial kind of exchanges were. But when we got older, that's kind of mostly when or leadership kind of caught forged or a lot closer. Um. We share varies in my personalities,

similar interests UM. Some of that possibly from UM rule being around me, but some of it not. Some of it's just quite organic UM. Possibly because of our parents maybe. But the distance hasn't prevented us from developing a close relationship. There's a mutual respect, of mutual admiration and yeah, it's been it's been a blessing to have a brother. Oh Ull, do you feel the same way as Absolutely, it's it's more pros and cons having

a better from my point of view. Um. I think also it's also down to the parenting, even though we were probably parented by different people, because twelve years in that time people change and probably parents. What I've learned from what they've done with Andrea and what I've done things differently with me.

But the principle of what they taught us it was the same, um to some to some extent, so um, but I was always the I guess it's a common thing where whenever are would be around, I would want to be right by his like or wherever he would wanted to go. Even though I couldn't go everywhere with him I did. I just wanted to be there. And part of the influence of music that you had just fell straight back on me. And then I had my own group and to this day we

sang in London make this karale together. And so music has always been that kind of threat that blinded us together even more. Even you were supposed to sing this, we came coming up, but somehow he's not able to make it up. But that's fine, we will make it up for another time. UM. But yeah, we're definitely much closer now as a pretty much making up for the times that he was away while I was still young and still kind of played a bit of ketchup and whenever you get the chance to.

Even though we're far apart, I mean personalities and colchister, most of our bonding will be either through what's that catchingly, how are you doing? What's life like? And trying to make sure we advise each other the best way we know how. Yeah, technology has certainly helped in terms of keeping our families closer. I can't imagine doing it when you had to do it buy paper and pen, you know, many many years ago. We're going to take a break with stick a pin right here. I have a lineup

of songs from siblings. In fact, we're going to start perhaps with that Mary, Mary. I'm running and when we come back, I will ask our therapists to unpack because a lot of that has come up during a conversation. Maybe to talk to our parents and talk about parenting and how significant that

is in sort of managing and sort of developing that sibling relationship. Yeah, all right, you're listening to Advantis Radio London and it's talking point back with you after this when you speak to me I have direction, but I woke up today. You ain't said nothing down which way? Do not go? And tell me when do I? Because I will never know if I don't get to you. So fine, it's hard, but it's worth getting looking said, I'm just trying to find you. It feels like Danny, I'm

so last without you. But I'm feeling that spread and I don't want to feelings because I need a solution. Walking, just walking walking matter, my boy, it's gonna get to where you are. I gotta go. We gotta go and show where as the tear passy waters all my soul, get down on my heart, desire and two words then I get, I stop and wall. This is one run and I can start set. I'm mind and I won't start. I won't sid I'm mind, run money, I want it running to my keeper, to my help. You love Mary Mary.

Um, It's siblings Part two, and I've got a lineup of siblings. Um, justin give us a little break in between. I think. Next, we've got BBCC widens. Who doesn't love that dynamic duo. We're back and we're talking to siblings, we are talking to therapists. It's all happening here this afternoon, but it's been a really good discussion so far.

And I think for me, where I'd like to go next is to talk to our parents and to talk about parenting, because from all the conversation that we've had, we've realized how crucial and parenting or what part that plays in the sibling relationship. And I'm going to go straight to our therapist and perhaps they can shed some light on that to help us to unpack unpack that what part do our parents play? And I'm thinking now of the story of Joseph.

That always comes to mind because he was doted on by his father, he was spoiled by his father, he was cherished by his father, perhaps more than the others, maybe not perhaps, And I think that had a part to play in how the brothers felt about him. And we all know how that story ended to God with the glory, but there were some really rough patches in between. Dorothy, I'm going to I'm coming to you first, what part do our parents play in that sibling relationship? A very very

important part as parents. There there's so many different roles because you don't want to be too much involved. So what I would say First, it's about to create, creating an atmosphere so the children can feel like they can talk together. It's important for parents to help them to navigate it, but allow them to talk and to develop and that that environment where they can talk one

to another you talked about, Joseph. It's about celebrating each child's uniqueness and talking about that as a family and encouraging that talk, giving them space to be themselves and encouraging them to talk as one. It's all about creating that atmosphere, treating each children as individuals, celebrating each children and allowing them to talk one to another. I think that's really important. Put them in the ring together. I can say that as I said that I've come from a

big family. Our parents they would listen. So if I had a complaint about my brother, my parents would listen to me and encourage me. Or don't worry. Maybe your brother didn't mean it. Why don't you tell your brother how you felt. I think that's the important thing for your parents to be parents and encourage them. What would it be like and if they can do together, allow them to. But you may need to also being there

and mediate between the two of them. Media listen to both of them and mediate, but really listen to the children, allow them to have their space, one with you, one with each other. Absolutely, Kelly, let me ask you this, how much of how we treat each other, how we communicate, how we manage our conflicts, is based on how we see

our parents do that. How much of everything we see and what we everything, because it's you know, the way how our parents treat us, the way how our parents handle each other, as in, parents sets the blueprint for children as to how they then manage their relationships. So if parents find it very difficult to manage conflict, children are absorbing that environment. Because they say that seventy parent teaching is modeling, is through modeling, and thirty percent

is actual teaching, as in telling them what they should be doing. So children are watching, you know, even as babies, they are watching and they've already sussed their parents out in terms of how to kind of manage things. So it's very very important. Parenting is the key to how children are able to you know, engage with one another, engage with them, and you know, it's it's everything. Don't I like what you said? And thank you Kelly for adding to it. Andrey Pedrol, both parents on the

panel. How much how involved do you get because Dorothy does say that you need to you get involved as you're needed. You step back, you navigate, you you um sort of mediate. So how involved do you get as you because you've got kids as well, how involved do you get in in the arguments and the discrepancies between them? Just interested to know. I was

just thinking about what Dorothy said. I forgot it was Dorothy or the other therapists we had on the last time with the siblings, and that was so then my wife and I both started to do was to not get in between their arguments because my wife had a habit even me even myself sometimes of like

they stopped bickering like like a a stop. And we noticed now that when they stop bickering or when they start having a disagreement amongst themselves, just let them be and just knowing when to step in when when when you know it's just getting too much. So we actually start using that that thought process from the last time where we had the siblings um meeting a couple of weeks ago, and we noticed a big difference that they seem to work it out on

their own and um, we just let them. You know, that is that is healthy for them to actually argue with each other because I think sometimes as parents we have a tendency to not have the kids argue at all. But yeah, then they see us, they see my wife and I arguing, but then they also see us. They may see us having a disagreement, but then they also see us okay, diffusing this disagreement and then coming

to a compromise. And so they they're learning that process too. Now when they when they're discussing something that they don't like, that they can express to each other like um, Kelly said, how how Doughty said to how they're feeling, and then the other one can say, Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you felt that way. And we were actually seeing the progression of their mind thinking and their because my oldest is it's gonna be fifteen and

then another one's gonna be thirteen. So as teenagers, you know, it's just a lot of homemones, a lot of things going on. So some days they're just having a bad day. Sometimes school is just a little stressed for them, so and sometimes they take it out on each other. So we're learning we're actually learning that that is actually a good thing to let them

work it out on their own. It's just when they come to us and say, look, you know this is going on, then we kind of step in and say, okay, we sit down, we have worship. Doing worship. A lot of times if they have a disagreement, I won't say anything. I'll wait to worship, and then doing worship, I would then address the whole I was just the hope now, like because sometimes you gotta let it breathe. So they have a disagreement, I won't even say

nothing right away. I I let just the argument or the disagreement going. They can be mad at each other for an hour or two. But then when we have worship, I'll address it and then explain, and then I can see that mine's working. Like, Okay, maybe I did overreact, maybe I didn't you know, maybe I took it in the wrong way and

I could have thought of it in a different way. So I just noticed that that's the best way to do it, like have a family setting, as they said, have that family setting, have them all together, and then we talk about it. Yeah, And as Dorothy said, communication is key. Communication is key. The ability to communicate with each other. Um, andre I didn't want peace and quiet, feel quiet? Um no, I think that's that's that's often what prompts his parents to jump in, and

he would annoys, shut up, keep quiet. Stop. But um, especially with my my two younger children, they are as thick as thieves there you cannot separate them. But in life fashion, they argue just as fierce as they love each other. So it's um letting them work it out. Let them work it out. It teaches them how to deal with conflict, how to manage disagreements. But then there are those times when either one is

just not letting the others speak. For example, at that point, maybe you can step in itself, listen, let let her talk and listen, and then you get to talk, so you kind of mediate but don't get involved. And if it gets a bit too hot, you could try a little joke just to try and just taper off some of the theme, as it were. But it works better when you let them work it out,

and sometimes you don't. You can just sit back and just watch it play out and have a good laugh, and another time will come out you share that same story and you get everyone has a laugh about it, but it is sometimes hard to watch them all out, especially it's getting kind of serious. It is hard to step back and let it play out. But more often that it is a better option, the better way of dealing with it. Okay, um, And that kind of thank you ANDREI that lends itself

to our next sort of topic of discussion. What are some of these issues that create conflict between siblings? Um? You know, what are the hot points of the hot issues amongst us that can really push our buttons? Um?

Angela Samantha, Samantha, you there, hello, Yes, I hear weekend we can, Um, we didn't hear enough of your story, and I think we want to start there because we ran out of time last last um, well, the last show siblings won tell us a little bit about you, um, and to the sister, we know that we've got that down, but tell us a little bit about you and then maybe you can

talk about the relationship. I know last time you spoke, you said, and I think it's been alluded to in our conversations thus far that it's a little dicey at first. You know, as young uns, we're feisty, and as we grow, our hormones, et cetera, et cetera. But Dorothy has mentioned, as has been mentioned with Pedrow, as you get older, you come to value that relationship. You come to value your siblings a lot more. Um, so tell us about you and then we start to

talk about that development between and that growing between you and Angela. Okay, well, Semantha was born and raised in the UK. Um, born in Derby. Then we moved down south to Hampshire and then was last living in London. One minute, how do you get this US accent? Then in London? All right? Okay, in South London? Yeah so um, yeah, So I work in human resources. So I've been doing that for a number of years for different companies. Um, twelve years ago I moved

to the US. So my husband's American. So when we obviously decided to get married, I had to figure out does he come here to the UK or do I go to the US. I chose to go to the US, and twelve years here I am, although I'm over in the UK right now. Yeah. So I live in Connecticut, which is near New York because no one really has heard of Connecticut. U. Yeah, so they have any children? And yeah, so that's me. Obviously I have two siblings, so Angela is my older sister, and then I have a younger

sister, Charlie, as well, So that's a bit about me. So I mean, I guess pivoting to what you were asking around the kind of dynamics. So you know, what I remember is, you know, obviously Angela was first, and then I came along four and a half years later, and I think I had definitely second child syndrome. I think that's the thing. New therapists probably will say that what is that, but I didn't believe it is. And I remember like kind of just always striving to be

doing what my older sister had opportunities to do. I just felt like it wasn't fair if I couldn't go this place or that place, or couldn't get this and couldn't get that. And so I found that I was, you know, wishing I was older, and then you know, trying to hang out with my sister and her friends and you know, she'd be like, no, no, you're too young and etce. So I would be like, no, no, I'm wearing an old close and all of that kind

of thing. So I kind of went through that phase for sure. Um. And then you know, between my sister and I, you know, we would fight at times because I think I've got a little bit of a bossy nature, so um, I would set faces on radio, so I'd be like sometimes acting as if I'm the older sibling, you know, and sometimes that would cause you know, tension, and you know, we'd fight,

just argue and things like that. So I wouldn't say that when we were younger we were that close, but I think you know, as obviously, Angela moved out went to university and I was I was at home. Um, and then eventually I moved out. And then over that time, as we're kind of just adapting and trying to just figure out, um, you know, our life more independently, that's when I felt like, you

know, we became much more close. Um, you know, spend time and things like that, and over time, you know, I do, you know, feel that our relationship has just got strengthened, for sure. UM. So it was a big thing then when obviously moving to the US and kind of making that decision because obviously that provides you know, it's a distance now which we didn't have before. We didn't we had distance of just you know, being a different part of the country, but being in another

country and then having to do with the time zone difference. You know, it's been quite harder. But that in of itself, I guess going through that experience, we have got you know, like closer. Um, so I guess there's some kind of benefits to a certain extent where they say, you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I think there's some you know, some some truth to that in terms of that. So so yeah, so that's I guess, you know, one aspect and then the

other aspect is being obviously an older sibling. I always wished, you know, I had younger you know siblings as well, and so obviously Charlene came along. I think the difference with me is let's see, eleven years no sorry, nine years, nine years different age difference. Um. And so what was interesting with that though, is that you know, she has special

needs, so she had learning difficulties. So she's thirty eight m she's a very loving sister, and we saw obviously really like grow but obviously wanting to experience um, you know, the I guess normal aspects of person kind of developing as a child and going into adulthood just really didn't experience that, And you know, that's been in of itself, you know, challenging and sad because I often wish, oh, what would it be like if you know,

she didn't have this challenge? UM, you know what the dynamic as three sisters would be, UM and things like that and so UM. But you know, I would change it, though, because she is just such a wonderful, wonderful sister, loving sister, and I you know, miss her dearly. UM went to see her yesterday, UM in a care home

and she's just all smiles and stuff like that. So but obviously I don't know what it feels like to you know, obviously you know have like unlike my sister, having a younger sister, UM, you know, and kind of building that relationship. It's been a sort of a different dynamic in that front. Okay, you did you did you see it the same way? Did you experience it the same way? Did you feel that it's Do you feel that your relationship has certainly grown, um and gotten stronger over the years.

Yeah, definitely. I think it's interesting. But you know, sort of talking about the age difference, UM, I maybe don't remember it quiet like that, because iimes I kind of think she's saying about the second child. I kind of think I made things really easy for her because I probably did loads of stuff, got into loads of trouble for it, and then you know, smile to have the opportunities to do things. And I would look back and think, if it wasn't for me, you'd never have that

opportunity. And I guess that's understandable. You know, parents kind of you, they kind of relax a little bit, that sort of thing um. And I kind of think, I mean, I'd like to think I was a cool big sister as well, So as much as she maybe felt she couldn't do things, I probably did bring her along to stuff. I remember. Actually maybe it's just my imagination, but even when I had my own flat and stuff, I'd say, you know, come down with your friends.

I'm going out. You can come and hang out at my place. So she had an older sister that she could bring her friends down to stay. They hear my place and that sort of thing. So I think I paid the way, but I interesting. I think Andre was saying about his two young his two children who think of seeds, but they fight equally.

I think there has been times when we have really argued, but at the same time really concocted stories between us that would say, Okay, we're going to get into trouble by a parents, but you know what, Okay, we'll contact this story so we can try and get out of trouble, even though apparently probably just think, I don't know why you think you can try and pull the wool over our eyes, but we did. So we'd be scheming with each other, and we had a secret language as well. You

know, children speak when we speak Haggy Peggy. Oh, and again that was our way of communicating. So our parents didn't you know, didn't understand. Um, you cut out, So you're saying that you speak, you two speak a different language, Hagy Peggy. Did I hear that one? Hey you thank you? Um you can Dorothy, Okay, Hey Lego, UM, I gonna say take a Kegyegan vegas nag and zeggas megang Mega eggs

egger jagger Lega will tell you what I said. So she basically said that her name is Angela, and I was saying hello, talking point listening the way of kinds of you put different sounds and fancy break down the word put sounds to count to the back the vowels and what have you. So, yeah, we did all We did all that as we were younger, which is very handy, very clever. Did you have to oh my gosh, oh pig Latin? Yeah, yeah, okay, oh yeah, exactly.

That's a similar one as well. So, um, unless we've got older. I mean, as Spanta talked about, you know, um, when she moved away, I remember feeling really devastated, actually thinking not that I've lost her, but you know, the distance is a big distance. However, we probably I mean we practically speak most days at least a couple of

times during the day, so probably grown a lot closer. Um, there are probably times where you have to sometimes wonder who is the oldest at the two I think that kind of five year difference has really reduced in terms of how we're what we're like. We've got very different personalities but also quite similar. And then I think, you know, with our relationship with our young

with Charlie and our younger sister, again the closeness there as well. I know I'm fiercely protective of both of them, you know, we'd do absolutely anything for them, you know, we'd try to do and I like, you know, trying to do as much as I can for them in one of the situations. So you know, I take my role as a big sister really seriously, you know. But yeah, it's been it's an interesting ride, and I'm really glad for the relationships that I have. You know,

I think it's been able to me to develop skills resilient. It's been very character building, you know, all along. So like I said at

the beginning, definitely a benefit. And I think, you know, i'd like to think, you know, my sisters have learnt something from me, and equally I've learnt a lot from them as well, you know, and despite the challenges, and I think it's just again finding ways to deal with those challenges in a really positive way, if there is such a thing, or maybe Dorothy and doth Kelly and nodding their heads and some of the things you've been saying. So I guess there's a lot to unpack there as well.

So yeah, so I'll leave that there, and the Sun's got something else to add on that one. I mean, one thing I will say about Angela, She's like very resourceful, so you know it's like, oh, have you got this? I'll go to her house and you know, she basically has all the clothes and all the gadgets and this and that. You know, so I've never left wanting, so I really appreciate the fact that, you know, Angela will always you know they call Mary popping that

she has everything in her bag or just everything around. So there's there's that, and so obviously I think we'd compliment because, as Angela said, you know, very different skills and personality, but I think, you know, where there will be things that I fall short of, you know, she'll be excelling in that and vice versa. And then together, you know, I think complimentary as how we kind of you operated as a unit to support each other. So yeah, and I think that's also a testiment probably to

our parents as well. I mean, I think as we were brought up to be very much independent and kind of resourceful to do things, we take a lot of characteristics from our parents. We lost our dad when we were fairly young, so again we've probably had to almost conversate for some of that as well. But you know, I think we were taught to kind of strife for things, to be able to do things off our own kind of our own back and do stuff. You know, we will always talked to

be you can be something. How we were in to do lots of different activities, different things, so you know we probably could do random things that maybe you sorry you think, Ah, I didn't know you could do that, but yeah, we've always been and we've always been like that as well. So you know, as you talk about parents and the role that they play, I think that's been a big part of it as well. Wonderful, Um, everyone's so close and so loving. I think the next the

next segment of the next section has to be about conflict. We need to we need to unpack some of that and see if there's been anything that we need to talk about that's transpired between our siblings that we can maybe delve into, because I'm sure it has. I mean that's the nature of relationships. They're good times and bad times, and I think the beauty of it is

being able to navigate them all. Um, So we're going to take a break, baby and cc um. The selection is called Grace, and when we come back, we'll talk about conflict and maybe Dorothy and Kelly can in their professional capacity, speak about some of those conflicts that they have come across. What's what's prevalent, what do you usually see among siblings? And then our siblings can speak maybe of conflicts that they've navigated um on their own.

He wrought me my trials, He wrought me through tribulations, never let a day gone back. And I realize, and I've been the lord who was on my side, go against the wall, little goble of me. He heard my pride and restilled him. Never let a day go back in I be alive right here to die. Shine and weird blessing and the highly babor shines and weird blessing and the highly baby. I would said that one more time. He brought me my trials. He brought me through tremulation, Never

let a day go by, and I feel life and happen. For the lord who was on my side that goes against the wall. He looked tough for me, he hearl cry and rescue me. Never let a day go life. And I realize d taking the land. And we name how many of you believe she has no no less and Ida, I just want you to take a look back back don't you know that it's a busy. It's amazing how he the tevil? What's the devil? Then turn around around, baby true here and I babor. I just want you to think about it

for a moment. It could have been me. It should have been me. It would have been me. If it was the mother black, it could have been me. It should have been me. It would have been me. If it was the mother blah, it would have been me. It should have been me. It would have been me. It did was a mother blad, it should have been me. It should have been me. It would have been me. If it black, it would have been me. It should have been me. It would have been me. If

it was a mother blah, get, it should be get. It was place my Mercy cover, Marcy cover, it was rin. Ain't called me just the plan when I wasn't mastar thanking for your prad time. I don't because I knew I can't I welcome in the mor I do think you for your grads think a Marcy ain't no, I walk? Don't that is a shower? Yes, nobody have to tell me. And that's live radio for you instead of the city. It was the clock sisters who with blessed and

highly favored beautiful selection. Nonetheless, it's about twenty five minutes past year of six o'clock and you're listening to Talking Point if you've just joined us. Its Siblings Part two, Really good discussion we've had so far. We've got on the panel, so many names, so many faces. I'm very well who was with us before for Siblings Part one? Thank you for joining us again, and Dorothy and Kelly or a resident therapists. Kellya thrown it at you,

you said you would. Now it's lot who've been helping us to unpack this dynamic. And of course my usual co host and partners, Angela and Pedro. Angel's also got Samantha and Mine who's her sister, her younger sister,

and she's been talking about that relationship as well. Right where we wanted to go from here was talking about conflicts, because we've got some relationships we've been talking about and it's been all good and wonderful and we like it like that very close athen Roual and Angela and Samantha, we're talking about our own relationships and we've got close siblings as well. But we know as life is that it can get dicey, it can get troublesome. Some sibling relationship ships

have ended in devastation, and we know that. So we want to talk about what causes conflicts, what causes rivalry and so forth amongst siblings. And I've asked Kelly Paps, you can start this conversation off, what are some of the things perhaps you've seen in practice maybe personally, what are some of the things that divides our siblings. So I seem to work a lot with the Black community with counseling. So there's issues that may have come up around

the wind rush and migration where siblings have been split. So there may be some children that may have been left behind and some that you know, we're living in maybe the UK, and then there may be put together and that can often cause some difficulties. And sometimes it's difficult for the parents to be able to recognize that there's an issue or maybe the parents have caused the issue, and a lot of it is you know, a lot of them don't

talk about it. And what I've seen is that when sometimes when parents pass away, that's when a lot of the childhood issues come up that have never been addressed. You know, when parents were alive, and that's quite that can be quite devastating. So there's always been something there, but nobody talks

about it. It's like the elephant in the room, but nobody talks about Nobody knows how to unpack it safely in a way that everybody gets to ear their perspective and you know, but find a way to be able to build a better foundation. So that that's often that comes up at what comes up. And also gender roles as well, So if you know, dependent on your order of birth, you know, you would have been brought up by

different parents at a different time in their development. Some children who may have been the eldest may have been adultified, so they might have been responsible for the younger ones have become a surrogate parent, particularly girls. If they're the firstborn, they will have to often look after the younger ones. Or if it's a first boy then often it may be quite different. So if the old if the eldest is a boy, and he may not have the responsibility.

But then if the next child along is a girl, then maybe she's then adultified. So there's there's lots of different dynamics, and then there's issues around neurodiversity, So neurodiversity would be you know, maybe autism ADHD Those things, if they're not diagnosed, can cause a lot of it can cause a lot of destruction in the family if it's undiagnosed, and you know there maybe might be difficult to manage, and parents may feel the need to try and

pander to the child. Maybe that maybe quite explosive, emotionally explosive, and maybe the other children may feel that they are being sacrificed. So those are just a few of you know, some of the issues, and I'm sure Dorothy you may have seen other things as well, So yeah, thank you for that, Kelly. Dorothy, you want to add here basically what Kelly said, the big part of it when we said before about how to manage

it is how the parents deal with the siblings. So when we talk, a lot of the time parents tried to or they say, I treat you all equally, but they're not equal. They're individuals. So it's about seeing them as individuals and being fair and explaining that to the rest to their siblings. No, no, the reasons, it's kind of bending towards alluding to what Kelly was talking about. New our diversity, different needs. I think

that's a big thing within families. We think everybody gets the same, everybody's allowed this, but no, no, no, equity. It's better the better word equity. Absolutely, So that's a part that I want to really bring it at this point. Do you see any other because we were looking at at some of the in my research some of the reasons. Um obviously

neurodiversence is one. UM order of birth is another. So you know, the youngest, as I spoke to before, feeling very entitled, feeling poet, spoiled what mom did with the eldest when when she really wanted to pay attention and she was younger, and you know, she was more on it. That goes out of the window. By the fifth one, You're like, you know, do what you want. I'm over it now, you know. Um. So there's a difference in treatment from the eldest to the

younger, and that comes across us in their relationship. UM. Maybe difference in looks, difference in in um ability abilities, things like that. These, yeah, these are all some of the reasons why you have that divide amongst siblings as well. Do you get a lot of that in your practice? Do you get a lot of Do you see a lot of that in your practice? Um, yes, there's a lot of that, And it's about trying to get them to see the differences. It's what we've talked about.

Each one of your siblings are different. So the eldest in my family, there's six of us that grew together, and the eldest three looked at the looked at the youngest three and I mean the youngest thing. So it's a bit like what Angelis said, you got away with murder, they paid the way, that's it. And by the time they had all gone to UNI, we were allowed to do a lot more. But again, my parents were probably five, six, seven, ten years older, so they

had learned maybe they retired. So then you get the older ones coming back and trying to parent the younger ones. And it's about saying no, no, no, no, you're you're your your siblings, you're not parents. Adultifying Kelly. Sometimes it's it's pushed on you. Sometimes people just take it on and think that they need to and it's just but it's difficult to say you shouldn't. Because Angela talked about it, saying with Samantha, well, I want to believe that I paved the way. You know, I did

say to you come down. So as a as a older one, you're thinking you're paving the way. You're doing this because it's like you just do that. It's it's not a big a deal. It's just what I do. And again, as parents is to stand back. And it sounds like that's what a mother's parents did allow them to get home with it. They talked about a loss of a parent. You know, they lost their father

and they were quite young. And that's another thing if you lose parents or another sibling, because we will all deal with all of these different things and it will call it may cause conflict because Kelly mentioned earlier, if a parent dies, a lot of things that were never spoken about now come out and it is an issue and we have to try and navigate that. I'm doing that. If it's not parents, hopefully we're older, and then the different

personalities come into play here and it can be explosive. Or you can seek help, get outside support, is what I always say. If you can't manage it in a family unit, seek help. You don't have to do everything on your own. Perfect if I can chame in, which is I completely agree with the point I was made in terms of the fairest thing a parent can do to their children is not treat them the same because they're not.

They may share a lot of traits, a lot of qualities, but they're they're still individuals, um, and so to treat them all the same will be to be treat to treat them un fairly, essentially. Absolutely. I'm not sure if we mentioned this. One of the thing that I not within my family, but what I've noticed caused a lot of conflict is when um, different children of different parents, so step step siblings, the different

treatment that can sometimes be experienced because of that. Yeah, Joseph family is a real typical biblical example of that, and disparity and treatment because of the mother that was loved more than another mother or whatever else, etcetera, etcetera, and often cause mean can I was actually going to jump in and say something like that because he was talking about treating your children differently. Um, Also, how about the dynamic of like growing up, Like when I grew

up, we didn't have much money. We had my mother made sure we had where we needed. But then when my when my brother and my sister came along. My parents were in a better place financially where they were able to get more stuff. So they got they got to go to boarding school, they got to go to Pineforch where we didn't get to go to Pine fORCH because we didn't have the money to go to Pine fORCH at that time. And so there was like it was like, wait, they get like

we had me and my sister. We had that dynamic of like, man, you guys are treating them better than you treated us, Like you know, like you're doing more for them than you did for us. But it was more just economically. They didn't have it at that time because they were starting out and as they grew they the financiers just got better then. But what Andre said about um, I just lost the thought. But what he said about with children and also treating them the same, it's hard sometimes because

children want to be treated the same. They think they want to be treated the same, but they don't need to be treated the same. Right, So I got what you were saying about. Like with my two children, My my my hurting old she thinks she's the boss of us all and she tries to boss the fourteen fifteen year old he's like, I'm the oldest, leave me alone. And that's how a lot of the arguments and fight start. And that's where a lot of it we have to be like, wait,

you're the youngest, he's the oldest. He's in charge of your second, in charge of right, like just finding that place to put them, you know, so they can they can manage. And then also wants thing because I go up back a step the I mean ever, I think when you have when you blend the family, and there is a step involved. Um, Like for me, Mike, when my father married my mother, he was trying to learn me, so we we I pushed back a lot

on him. It was my fault. I pushed back a lot. I gave him a hard time, so he was harder on me that he was with his own children. Was I look back, It is because he already had that relationship with his children where he didn't have to push as hard as he did with me. And as we got, as we got more and more into our relationship, I learned to conform to what he wanted, and then I found that my life was easier. Um having did he did he

have a conversation with you about that? Because here's the thing. We can you know we can, right, so back then because back then we didn't talk exactly and then we didn't talk. No, right, that's what I'm saying. That's but that's why I'm bringing this up. It's saying that we need to have that you need if you are, if you are joining into it where you're the stuff. Like my my wife. I have two older kids, twenty eight and twenty five, and when I met my wife,

I sat them. We all sat down and we had a conversation and I said, this is my wife. Now you don't have to be You may not like her, but you're gonna respect her. So we had that conversation, and my wife for a long time didn't think that they even liked her. But then when we was having conversations with them, they'll bring up stuff that she was doing, just little things that she was doing for them that

she didn't realize she was doing. And they was like, I remember when you made us breakfast and it was so good, and you know you made the eggs of the black you know, like, and she was like you remember that. They're like yeah, So, like you said, just having that conversation because you're trying to it could be difficult sometimes and I just remember that with my father, we just had a really hard Like the first couple of years was really hard. We didn't have that conversation, but I think

we developed. I did a lot for I did a lot with him working and stuff. I use a work in the ABC and the conference, and he worked in the conference, so I will go to work with him. And we didn't have communicate. We communicated in that way and spending time together. So it was never spoken, but it was understood, if that makes sense, Like we developed a relationship with our communication, but we did thankfully develop a relationship as time went on. It can go, but it can

happen, but it's just harder. If we would have had that conversation, I think it would have been much easier for us both. And I guess the key word you used it as a conversation because you did communicate nonverbally, yes, but what you didn't do was sick together and talk about it. And sometimes that's difficult, especially with men. We talk about gender. It's hard sometimes to talk about really what's going on. But you kind of started to recognize, Okay, so if I do this, then I get this,

and he does that you communicated. You just didn't have that conversation, and that's what was missing, but that you did communicate, So that'd be too hard to each other. Oh no, no, Well, the reason why I realized that we actually connected was because my sister, Stephanie passed away and at the funeral, my father got up and he said, I just want to thank one person in the whole you know, in the group something. He's gonna say one of the children and he's like, I want to

thank my son Pedro. And the rest of the kids were mad at me. They was like, what, why are you thinking him? And he was like, because if I needed something for Stephanie, he was there. If I needed him to do something, he was there if I you know, and he started naming all these things and that's what and that was our way up. That was when it clicked. That's when I realized that he did now respect. You know, we had a respect for each other and

we understood each other. So it was never really communicated, but by him saying that in front of everybody, the whole family, it kind of just like okay. And then from then our relations ship grew even stronger. If that make them absolutely went to a different level. It went to a different level. Yeah, communicating, but it wasn't verbalife. And when your dad verbally said it verbally in front of so many people, it took the relationship

to another level. Right again, to recommend just because we're not talking, we're looking at each other, children are looking, siblings, we're all looking. Do you see what they said? And do you notice how? And we say it? So that's why we said before it's about it's sist in the room. Think Pedro you said earlier your family before worship, you talk about issues, and I guess it's about having those things in place. When

do you talk. Some people do it at meal times, some people do it at worship, some people do it on the drive to school, coming back from school, whatever it is. But having that talking because they're watching you, our children and this is the nephews, they're watching us. They may not say it that they store it up and that helps them to develop as young men. Women take going into their own relationships. But don't don't ever think just because you're not saying it, people say they don't see it.

Your children see it by how you treat yourself them your partner and the rest of the siblings. There's a lot that said without being spoken. Can I just bring in as well sometimes in terms of the communication, because children can be quite black and white. I've got two girls, you know, one is ten and one is six, and they are at two very different developmental stages. So you know, the fighting, you know, again you

have to understand their developmental stage when they're arguing. You know, within my house it turns to fist fights because the six year old, she's just got that kind of energy, and you know, the ten year old, she's you know, she can't be bothered with a with her six year old because she's too little. But it's also about their perspective in terms of what they

understand of the situation, because it's they're both in the same situation. So a fight will take place and you know, one will see it from a different perspective from the other, and they believe it and they run with that

with that story. So and this is where it's important to have that conversation with them to find out their perspectives and help them to learn how to navigate the difficulty in their both in their developmental stages, which is going to be different and that can be and that can be really really tough because you know, my children would just blanket just say, oh, you love her more than me when I was her eight you know, there's all that kind of

thinking, really are we really doing that? But but it's forced me as a parent to really kind of asked questions them ankwesome about their feelings. So now might not be the time, but maybe at dinner time, maybe having someone to one time with them, and they all then express and explain how it's made them feel, you know, and often it's that it's that feeling of injustice. You know. The six year old is all about injustice. The ten year old is all about you know, her feelings, her emotions,

and it feels this is how it feels. So it's about trying to understand their perspective and that can be really really difficult. But also as well, you want to help them to learn to conflict, you know, you know, manage conflict. And also you have to be careful how you get involved, because you can get involved and think that you're supporting them and then the two of them will turn on you and you're the enemy. So you know, you have to know how to kind of navigate. And it's based

on their personalities. You've got to know their personalities. So yeah, communication is key. We we We've said that through and through and I think this is the this program. The conversations need to happen. And I remember, for me, I've got five brothers and sisters and we're all for different months from the Caribbean. Hey. Hey, And one thing we always salute our dad for. He made a lot of mistakes, but one thing he did

very right is that he used to come and get us. So we're all in different houses, we're all growing up differently, but on the weekends, just for church and for Sunday, he would come and get us all and we would overnight at his house and that established the connection that we take even today and we've built on. Had we not had that, we would have lived separate lives and maybe never been as close as we are now. And when he came for us, it was the conversations we had with each other

and with him. Yes, I know I made a mistake. I know I didn't do the right way. Maybe if I had to do all over again, I'll do it differently. But I love you all and etcetera, and etcetera, etcetera. And those are the moments that I remember even now fondly because the foundation I think was set there for the relationship that we have now. And when we're talking about step sisters and step brothers, I think that's crucial conversation. This is what's happening now, this is a new dynamic.

These are the rules, these are the you know, this is how it will be. This is the respect that you need to give to her and to him and all that kind of stuff. Conversation is key, and it's it's it's coming out in this conversation that we're having now how crucial and how important it is. I mean, I'm going to go to our siblings next because I want to know how they resolve and one of the conflicts that you've faced over the years, if you care to tell us and how you've

navigated them. Um Angela, Sam, welcome back. Do you do you want to take it from here? Yeah, I'm trying to think actually, I think actually major really major conflicts. I mean, what I would say is kind of what I touched on earlier around like as we were younger, we used to kind of fight and so I remember. What I remember is that when Angela moved out, we weren't talking as much. I think, you know, once I came to London, it's like we kind of because,

yeah, you were just doing your thing. You you know, obviously had moved away and there was that kind of dynamic and I was just at home doing my thing. So I guess there was a little bit of kind of separation. I wouldn't say it was like a major conflict, and I don't think, thankfully, we've had to navigate something so dramatic where you know, we weren't talking for a very long period of time and things like that.

Usually we can just kind of, you know, argue it out a little bit, even like now you know where I like did You'll call me out on something and I'll call her out and stuff. But then that's it. There's no kind of of you know, grudge and holding onto it for a long time kind of thing, which is you know, blessing because you know, I know that there are some siblings that just don't talk, just kind of talk because they just have that kind of you know, unfortunately unhealthy

relationship. Yeah, and I think, you know, if we are we have disagreements. I don't think that's necessarily because they don't get to anything physical or anything like that. But I think if we have a bit of an argument and I'm a sort of temperament who I might get really angry, I fizzle, I sort of you know, I may go from not to one

hundred as I sort of fizzle back down very very quickly. So we might argue, words are said, and then I don't know, two minutes later, it's all fine again, you know, so really nothing that's serious. And I kind of just think maybe that's something developed over the years in the sense of actually even if you are having a disagreement, meant to the case of walking away to both as a calm down and then can kind of address

it. And usually actually I think probably both of us probably laugh at each other in the sense of the way we might have carried on at the time, like it just seems so we see the ridiculousness of it, you know, and whereas I might have got really upset about something, should just be laughing again and you're just silly and likewise, do you know what I mean? And I think you know from that it takes away maybe the harshness of what could have been. And sometimes you know, we like we say,

we call each other out on things. Sometimes things need to be said and that can be difficult to listen to. But I guess as you get older you appreciate that because somebody's looking out for you. Development they don't need you actually needs me any harm in that respect and vice versus. So. But yeah, thankfully we've never really had any major disagreements. I mean, then we've got very different personalities, and there are things that are probably driving me

mad. That's probably feels driver is mad about each other, but you know we can we can resolve them because nothing that's seriously because I think the reality is, you know, life shows us that life, you know, the last few years benthic shared as a life is so short, such a value. You know, people that you love around you, you know, and again I appreciate this isn't always the same for everybody eat you know, but when you have got good relations with people, and if it's your family,

you know, you keep them close. You just don't know what will happens tomorrow. I think I said earlier about you Tube as well, when you were talking, I was watching you and for me, it's a lot to do. If your parents allowed you guys to get on. I think what you show what I see it with you two, your parents left you to do it, deal with it. They didn't get involved. You had to negotiate, and it was kind of like you had each other. At the end of the day, you knew you just had each other. That's what

I'm getting when I'm hearing you talking. So yes, you you had your arguments. At the end of the day, it was just an argument. That's my sister. That's my sister, which I think is to it all as well. And I guess that's similar to my family. We had a similar we will my sister and myself. There's two girls and boys. My so I was the eldest one and I idolized her and I felt she was a blue eyed child and she was looking at me, what are you talking

about? Because she was always with mum. But she didn't want to be with mum, you know, So again we have to look at that in families. My sister was the eldest in the kitchen. She mum was getting shop, but she took my sister. I was ramping with the boys. John wanted to ramp with the boys. But she could have. But I thought, oh, she was so ladylike and I was never ladylike. And I guess, and you're similar with yours that you know once this way you

said very different one. Maybe ladies like one may not be and you see it and at the time it's like what is going on? And you might think one thing and the other is thinking something different. So my sister and I growing up, we didn't have no bigger fallout, but I know as adults now because when I said, yeah, well you at Mum's funeral and I did my talking, I said, and my sister was a blue wiled child. She looked at me and she said, what do you mean?

I was a blue wife. And it was not until then that I didn't realize that she did see herself how I saw her. I thought she was Moneth's favorite. She didn't say it, and she didn't think that. Always the talking, and I guess it's very difficult for some Manthor and Andrew they're sitting together, they're really not going to say really and truly, And again they've pushed it down. They've pushed it down because they've let adults to get on with it. We've only got each other at the end of the day,

We're gonna do this together, you know. And it always ends up that it comes out somewhere. It might be a funeral and we don't know it. Could you think, well, why don't they talk or why don't they They might not even know themselves have that conversation you're saying, because and it will come out, Oh, I didn't know you saw it like that. That's yeah, that's very true. But you know, at the same

time, I sometimes think they're probably are things. I think actually, sometimes you just weigh up a situation and sometimes you have to really think, actually, it's like this my issue is my issue, and I just need to get over it. If it was something really you know, it's really pressing, I'd like to think I'd like to be able to talk to my sister about this, talk to a month about it. Um, I'm sure they

could probably use things. But you know, at the same time, I just think, yeah, like I said, life's too sure, and I think, you know, you have to really just see what's going to be important to enable your relationship to go forward. If there is if there is something that's going to be a challenge. Yes, address it. You know, I'd like to think rather was enough to do that. Yeah, I don't think of anything. Yeah, I mean is keep the real going after?

Um? What are your thoughts on this? What? What? What keeps you close? What divided you in the past? How have you gotten past it? And this might be a good point to interject, Um, you know, how has your faith paid a part in your relationship? Well, I've got a story. I can't really remember six sorry me kent of time I'm thinking about. People say, no, I don't. I can't recall as adults us having any major confidence Andrew. I have one. But

I do remember a particular story when we were younger. I was I was really like seven years old and they maybe eight and Andre Andrew carried brought over a friend that was a girl that as a kid, I had a very slight crush on her when when he bought her over, but I felt like Andrew was using me as his as his butler, right, so when he needed water, he would send me in the kitchen get him some water. At one point I just shook my kiss my teeth or stoops as it were,

and walked off. I think I drink. A little bit embarrassed with that because I did it in front of his you know, his friend. I was a girl, um, and he came after me. He gave me a little pinch and it started to cry. But in the end the girl came to comfort me. So I believe that I probably won anyway. But that's the only major comfort I could remember as a child. It was unfair that Andrea was older. He had an advantage, was bigger than me,

could if you wanted to throw me across the room. So we didn't really have much arguments except for the fact that I was probably a little annoying as a kid because I always wanted to be around him. But as adults, I can't really think of anything else except for the fact that my parents never really showed their arguments in front of us, so we would probably sense

a little tension, but they would do the resolutions behind doors. Whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not sure, but it resonated a little bit bit of s where we were never very We would never voice or issues right away. It would more like suppressive, if anything, to avoid comfort um, and rather than fighting, we more have a conversation about things, disagreements here and there, yes, but it never escalated to the point where we want to talk to each other for weeks or months or

so. But that's what I can think of. Andrew. Did you see it the same way? Did you? Yeah? Pretty much? I mean, like girls have, you've never experienced our appearance, having a full blown argument in front of us. You've never been It needs to raise voices and harsh words. That's just not part of what we grew up with um, so we never We're never accustomed to that kind of conflict and between us again, partly because of the a difference, most likely not really much conflict growing

up as adults. The only conflict I can think of was not between us directly, but more our partners. We both married similar type women, very strong headed, very stubborn, and we had conflicts partly because of clashes between them, and that then impacted us, and both of us kind of trying to be mediators, trying to calm things down to our hot headed wives, which then caused us to have some distance between us. But direct conflicts between

us between us, not really. There were there were times where there was a situation where my action was misunderstood by real For example, if realism might be sharing this was when he chose his wife, and you're planning the marriage and whatnot, and we spoke about it, and I was trying to give advice in terms of, Okay, maybe you can push back the date and get a few more things in place so that you can already for this next

step. And that was misunderstood partly by him and him party by his wife, as well as me not agreeing with the relationship, not want them to get married, whereas I was not the case. I was just trying to give advice to give anyone you know, probably better to do such and such first, and then if it means pushing back date, then push them back. I mean, it's not going to stop you from getting married and you've chosen. It's just just taking a bit more time. But not conflicts I

can think of beyond those those situations. Wow, I've got some really strong relationships here, good relationships. But before I close, let me, just because we've got only a few minutes, let me then ask Dorothy and Kelly, what would you say then to those of us who may have difficulties in our sibling relationship, who have fallen out and have not spoken for years, who have come to fist fights and blows, and maybe restraining orders are involved,

et cetera. I mean the extremities. And for those who maybe have lost siblings and there are difficulties there that need to be resolved. I mean, perhaps too much to siblings. Three. I can see it coming, but we have a few minutes. Let's use it wisely, and just to

talk to those who may be struggling in their own relationships. Really, I would it's about understanding how you feel, how you feel about the relationship and what's happened, to be able to verbalize the feelings and to see if there's a possibility of having a conversation, but be with the intention of trying to understand the other person's perspective so that you can then understand where maybe there might

have been a misunderstanding. It may mean that having a completely outside person to help mediate the conversation, because sometimes can be a bit too explosive to be able to manage that within the sibling group. So if there's a third person,

that third person that can come in and help to manage. Okay, you speak when you're holding the orange, you speak you listen okay, and then you know, being able to reflect and refrain back what the other, what each person has said, to see if there can then be some sort of result. Very quickly, I'll just say it's okay, it happens. Life happens. I believe that God allows us to be born into the families

with the personalities that are there for a reason. And I always if you can make it out with your siblings and your parents, you'll be able to work out in life because those people in your families, they're only representing people that you're going to meet up with in your life. Absolutely, so reach out, get help if you can. It's not the end of the day.

Learn from it. Well said, I'm going to actually share our cornerstone details shortly, and also if anybody wants to get in touch with these lovely ladies, then they can reach out to us when Adventice Radio London and we'll pass on details. Final words as a way about two minutes after from Angie and then the final word from Pedro with a prayer, and then we'll say

goodbye. I guess I would say we're doing this shows a part two, but we're looking at you know, Siblings Day and this a couple of days time, his brother and sister's day, and it was inspired by a woman who realized how little he expressed her love and admiration for her brother before he

died. And the reality is life is short, and as Dorothy says, God has blessed us with siblings and put us into families with alation ships if we have them, and you know, we should try and remain connected, bond, enjoy, fixed, resolve whatever it is with those if you know that's to be and you know, aim to be a blessed into each other. I was in a communication is key to that. I relation would God is ultimately key to that as well, so I would encourage that did go

forward. Thanks Petro. Any final words and then you can really I was just um piggybacking on what Andre and um we Ell said about with their wives are hard headed. Um, my wife is hard headed too, as you guys know. I when she had argument she's not on this time, but because she was a feeling well, but when she's had an arguments with her sister, I tended to remove myself from the situation and kind of like let them work it out themselves. As siblings. UM, I would not UM.

I would give you know, like advice, but I would never like UM, I would just try to get my wife to see her sister side because a lot of times when they got into the argument, my wife is on one side where she's like, you know, this is what's going on, and I'm like, have you looked at what your sister's feeling and try to encourage it. I kind of went that way. I was never UM. I was never the type to be like, um, you know, trying to put a wedge between them, because if I if I put a

wedge between them, then I ended up getting blamed. Then it'll be my fault that they're not talking. So I just always rant the opposite way in that way. That's just me personally. UM. It's not easy to do sometimes because then the wife would get mad at me. Now she's mad at me, but hey, I you know, it's it's fine. We can work it out. You know, we can communicate and conversate and work it

out. They should understand where I'm coming from that. I was just thinking about that when they was talking about, you know, about how that made that caused them a little bit of grief. Throughout their you know, adult relationship, communication and compromise. Yep, I said, right, can you just close the side with a prayer and then we'll wrap it up all righty

fo, We don't think all for joining us today. We thank you Lord for allowing us to have this conversation about siblings, conflict and resolution and understanding each other and loving each other and compromise. We ask a Lord that you will be a physicist we go forward throughout this week, everybody listening and everybody on the panel, that we all have a good week and that we can

better ourselves through this conversation with our siblings and with each other. And we just want to say thank you Lord for your loving, your mercy, and you have a lasting grace for this uppering your Holy name. Amen. Amen, Amen. Well, we're trying to spend as usual, but I want to say thank you for everyone's contribution. Thank you for joining us, taking the time out of your busy schedules, out of your sabbath afternoons to be

with us. I hope you will come again. I'm already plugging another show. What it will be about, we don't know, but it's really good having you on board and I certainly look forward to talking to you again. Until next m I want to say good night from myself, Zenia, and from Man and Pedro and from the rest of the panel. God bless you and take absolute care. By way Adventist Radio, London inspiration for the song