Mental Health Awareness Week 2023 - Anxiety

Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song. Well. Welcome talking Point with Ray Angela discussing the hot topics and answering your questions Saturday's five to seven pm on Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point. It's talking Point. It's talking Point, it's talking point. Conversations you need to have mm I don't have to work. I don't have to work. He was beside Oh he dies, My stays, yeah, retain, I don't have to lie. I don't have to lie. He was beside me, Oh he died for shame?

Yeah, I and such nah fucking who SUPLI stop the line? Are by stop day my side? I say on the way, I just don't have one. I don't know. I don't have to I'm just don't I'm just good evening, good evening, good evening, and welcome to Talking Point. Yes, and that was a classic from of an oldie but a goodie one Walter Hawkins. You're never alone, and that's going to fit in beautifully with what we're gonna be talking about today. This week has been mental health Awareness

Week, so we're coming to the end of that. So we're going to be sort of look touching on a couple of points and what the theme is about this week, this for this week of anxiety. So as per usual, I hope you've all had a good sabbath. It's been glorious weather today, it's been fantastic. So really just look like spring is finally here. We've had a week of really good weather well where I've been, so hopefully it's been the same for you as well, and yeah, may it continue.

So for those joining us for the first time, welcome. My name's Angela. I'm in studio today and I'm joined by some lovely guests today, but my usual co host, Pedro is up there in Halifax. How are you doing, Petro? I'm doing doing. How are you doing today? I'm not good morning afternoon talking point. Yes, and how are things things are? Well? Yeah, well, like you said, the sun is

shining up here too, so I know this special definitely makes me. Yeah it is, but I don't know if it's busy down there, but it's busy up here, is windy, but the sun is out that time. Yeah, times has been a bit of a chill, but um, but it's all good. The sun, the sun shining, blue skies. Definitely good for your well being in mental health. So I'm quite a fitting day for that. So, um, what I'd be wanting to say, I don't like the sun, you know, like the sun? Really? Wow?

Why is this Petro? Because like growing up, even in New York, the heat, I don't actually like it cold. Oh okay, yes, and that's all it is. It's just that growing up of the heat all my life. Actually now at the point where I just like and I find in the UK we don't handle heat well. Yes, when it gets had, everything in the buildings, the stores, the buses, everything is

just hat so we don't handle heat well. So when it gets hat here, I don't like it because there's a different kind of Yeah, it's true kind of heat. It's true. Unfortunately, you know, we always what are the things that we do in the UK, We talk about the weather a lot. It's always something about the weather. It's either too hot, too cold, too wet, to win the etcetera, etcetera. And considering the time of changeable whether we have in the UK, You're right, we

don't really know how to cope with it. Our systems really are not set up. You'd think we'd know by now, but you know however, Yeah, and we're thankful for the good weather when we get it. Um, so may it continue. I'm not complaining, no, just saying, okay, so how has your week been? My week has been. There's always busy. U. It's really going fast. I don't know, like it's like you you know, Monday comes, You've got to work, and the

next you know, it's Friday morning. You're like, where did the week go? Yeah? The time go and then and it kind of it's actually kind of misses with your mental health in a sense because you just don't you try to struggle to see like what did I do this week? Like what

did I what did I accomplish? What did I get done? Yea, it just seemed like stuff is moving so fast now it just um you know, of course a lot of driving, um been all over the from one side to the others always UM. But otherwise for that, it was, you know, pretty normal week week for me. Yeah, okay, let's say it. You can, I'm say And now the person that's missing today unfortunately rather co hosts Senna is unfortunately not very well. But a shout out

to Ennia Um. She's been battling a bit of a cold or week. Um, so definitely pressed going up for Zenya, wishing her a speedy recovery so that she can be back. Hopefully she'll be back next week, and she should also be doing her praise praise party. I'm not sure what she calls her show actually after Talking Point next week. So Zenya, get well

soon and yeah, we'll get your peer back on the radio. She was tempted to come on, but she was like, oh, the coughing and spluttering is probably not a good sound, So Sho's left that form for this one. Sou Yeah, I'm so it's been it's been a quick week for me as well. Actually I've kind of as she said, I'm again, we're almost the end of May. We've got another week of May, and then we are in June, and it's like halfway through twenty twenty three already.

And I know, I feel like I say, I feel like I say this every week, but it still surprises me, just how as you said, how fast the time goes, And I think, what do I do? You know? You get up. I'm an early riser, so I wake up really early, and I still by the end of the day think what did I get done this week, like really m But again, mine was kind of a usual day. For those who are regular listeners will know that I have to mention that I work at university, so I was

meeting some of my students. We're in exam season now, so you know, I've had a lot of conversations with students who are kind of stressing out about their exams. And I've also had quite a few who've sort of been coming to the end of their degrees, especially undergraduate degrees, and they it's very different year for them because the first two years of their programs were spent in lockdown. So it's been quite a shift in terms of actually doing in

personal exams, a different kind of pressure. You know, they're coming to the end and it's almost like what next. So yeah, so my prayers are you know, going out to anybody who is taking their exams at the moment. Definitely fits in with our theme because as I said, we've been talking about anxiety this week. Yeah, so it's been it's been an interesting week. But yeah, again, I've actually made it down to Ballam today church to do my kindergarten class, which was fun. Haven't been there for

a couple of weeks. So I actually quite a few children as well, so it was good to talking about Daniel and the nines Day said again, oh no, I wasn't on a praised team today. I literally went there for sabbath school and then I left came back up to Redding for their Disability in Ministry program hand in hand shout out to them as well. So yeah, and then here down to Watford and it's quite nice, you know, listen to the tunes, the sun breeze and everything. So yeah, so

all in or not a bad week. So I hope those who are listening out there as well, you've had a good week two and your Sabbath has been a blessed one. As I said, we were talking about anxiety this week because it's been mental health awareness week, so if you have any thoughts on that, please do share them with us, joining the conversation that we're having. You can text us on eight trip or two eight you're right, Hope and leave a space and then your message, or you can email us

at studio at Adventist Radio dot London. Do send us your comments and thoughts. We've got lots to share obviously, but we want to hear things from you as well. So if there's anything that causes you anxiety, do let us know. And if there's anything any tips that you can share with people on how to cope with that, then do share that as well. But

we're going to be talking about that today. And as much as that's kind of part of my area, I work as a well being advisor, so I sometimes talking to people about their well being, I wouldn't necessarily say the time an expert. However, we have two experts on the show with us today who I'm sure come across anxiety in many different forms and presented by different people. So I really want to welcome my two guests with me today,

so I am going to let them introduce themselves. Actually, so we've got Dorothy and Valletta. So Dorothy, let's start with you. I know you've been on the show before, so welcome back. He can become one of our residents, practitioners, therapists, experts. Yeah, I'm gonna give you all of those titles, so yes, so say hello to our listeners for me and tell us little bit about yourself. Hi, thank you for having me back on the show. So I'm a psychotherapist with over twenty five years

experience, mainly in education, working in universities, colleges and schools. I've set up counseling services also working with those students there. I'm interested in engaging clients from different communities into counseling ones that usually don't go to therapy. That's really what I'd like to do. Currently, I'm full time in a private practice, which I'm really really enjoying the flexibility. Cool. Thank you you and thank you for joining us. So I do know, I don't know

actually have works with you for a long time as well. I'm very different areas as well, so yeah, I know you've got lots to share and lots of expertise in the area. So thank you for that. And then over to our second guest for letter, Welcome to Talking Point. Thank you, thank you, and thank you for having me. I must say I'm experiencing my own anxiety right now. This is my debut on live radio,

so I'm experiencing a little bit of nerves. But I am a family and systemic psychotherapists and I have been working in child and adolescent mental health services for a number of years. Previous to that, I was a teacher and developed my interest in in psychotherapy and counseling just through observing children and how they approached their education and how their anxieties and how their difficulties impacted on their ability to

learn. So I've always been focused on young people and their mental health. Okay, cool, So again looking forward to hearing your insights into our topic. As I mentioned, this week is mental Health Awareness Week. Now, Mental Awareness Week was organized by Mental Health, the Mental Health Foundation. They've got a really good website, lots of tips, lots of information on there. You can find them at mental health dot org dot uk. So one of the things when I was reading up about this, we have a lot

of these awareness weeks. Do you think, and this is to everybody, do you think it's important that we have these awareness weeks? And as I asked that question, I think to myself, well, I know what the obvious answer would be. However, why is it important to have these weeks?

And there's lots of you know, mental health based events and activities and days throughout the year, and this is a week that's been dedicated to, I guess, raising awareness and there's probably a bit of different activities I've seen people have done. Um, skydives to raise money, or they've had kind of tea parties where people can get together. So, and what are your thoughts on the idea of having these awareness weeks? Is it important? Is it a key thing? Um? Anyone? I think it's I think it's

useful. I think it's a bit like um, it's a bit like witnessing, isn't it. Then you can you know, people can hear the same message over and over again, but until it's a matter of time where it's really relevant to them, you know, they may as well have not heard it. So I think, um, I think these weeks are are useful.

I think they also have accumulative effect, don't they Because we can see, you know, the one week might not make a huge amount of difference, but as an accumulative effect over time, when more and more organizations get get involved, it's talked about in the media on you know, in TV, and it just creates a wave that we can see see happening and there's

much more awareness all around. So I think it's useful. Yeah, i'd agree with you the less h I think it's an opportunity for the whole of the UK at once focusing on one thing, and that is a good thing. Like you said, it's like going to church. We asked Seventh day Adventists. Some of us here are Seventh Adventist. So we go to church one day a week. It doesn't mean the other seven days of the week we don't think about God, we don't talk about God. We do all

the time. And it's the same for me with the mental health awareness. As long as we don't just think about it for that one week of the year, when can do it constantly with this other reminders. Yeah, and we've focused on it more than just one week in a year. Yeah, Yeah, it's definitely And as you say, it's about a week. Actually, I think in the US or North America, I think this is actually Mental Health Awareness Month. So again, you know, obviously it's again the

same kind of thing. It is about, you know, a starting point, a way to raise certain topics, raise you know, we're raising awareness people as much as it's out there, people still don't necessarily know about things. So yeah, totally agree on that. I think it's really good also

for um places like work organizations. You know, I work for the for the NHS, and it's you know, it's targets, targets, targets target But I think when you have awareness weeks, you know, um, it gives it gives organizations permission to allow some downtime to say, look, we're gonna we're gonna take time to send out these messages. We're gonna take time out to give a space to our employees, you know. And so I think it allows some of that to happen without feeling, you know, we

have to put other more important things aside. Yeah, it's definitely good time put Petre. You're going to say, no, I mean I could say something I was. I was actually just thinking actually, um, to be honest, I didn't know that this was even until because we were doing the program on the news. Why I knew this week, um, what you was talking about earlier mc DOTHI was saying, like how you know, witnessed or actually witnessing, Like I didn't even know it wasn't really put appear that

much. I didn't know that we was having it this week. UM. And I think that's that's a shame, because I think it's something like you said, like we need to get out to let people know, um that it is going on. So that if they if they are suffering or if they're hurting or they're going through something, that they can get some you know,

not that there's other people out there. I think sometimes people think that they're the only one's going through it, and that there's no other there's nobody else, especially children, there's nobody else that's going through the same problem that they're going through. And to put this away to people that is that it is awareness and that it is help. I think it's something that, like

you said, we should really try hard to do. Yeah, and and I just like it said, not just this week, but on a consistent basis throughout the year. Yeah. I guess these these kind of weeks or these activities are good starting points, even if it's for a conversation. You know, we're talking about that today, and that's what we want to kind

of encourage society communities to start having those conversations. But as you said, if you didn't necessarily know about it, but there's lots of people who possibly don't know as well. So we've got to keep you know, we've got to keep going with it. It's not just the one off thing. We've got to keep going. So I mean, with that in mind this week. They this year they have focused the theme on anxiety, which I think

was an interesting one. Last year actually it was on loneliness and that fitted in very well with you know, the pandemic and post pandemic and coming out of that, I think the notion of being lonely came to the forefront because people were, you know, we weren't able to do all the things that we normally do, and there were many people who you know, they live by themselves or they don't have strong networks around them. Loneliness was a big

thing. It's always been around, you know, elderly people. You know, the rising terms of elderly people and you know their loneliness status. As

it were, many people don't ever really talk to many people. So then this year anxiety, so looking at that, it was really that Actually the focus on it really again is to kind of get people talking about it because people are struggling, you know, we have the cost of living crisis, you know, post pandemic, going the idea of going back to normal, I think people are struggling to see what that normal is and we talk about the new normal, so you know, there's probably a lot of things people

who are struggling. So it's an interesting theme for this year. So for Vleesper and Dorothy seeing that as a as a theme, did that surprise you on what's your thoughts on the fact that it they're focusing on anxiety? It's quite a buzzword in some ways, and as therapists, I'm sure you hear that all the time. And I know there is a lot that's spoken about. I mean, I know I speak to students and the word anxiety probably

crops up in most of my meetings with people. But you know, tell us a little bit about what you were thoughts on, you know, this being their theme for this year. No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I think one of the things when you work for when you work for UM cams, you see trends, you see trends, and you know, as you mentioned, what we

used to see was UM seasonal seasonal rise in anxiety. So when the exam times were clambing up, you get a lot of you get a lot of anxiety coming through. And now what we're seeing is that the most of what we're getting cam getting at cams throughout, certainly in the area where I work, is is anxiety a majority of anxiety cases. There really has been a shift. So it doesn't surprise me at all. And as you say, with the link to the link to what's going on in society at the moment,

then there's no surprise there, not for me. Yeah, yeah, I would agree as well as so in private practice, I'm seeing the parents of the children who are doing exams and having to manage their stress as well. And what's going on in the world, the wars, there's so much the heat team fields and things like that. Definitely, this time of the year, anxiety is a big thing. And you know, we blame everything on COVID and why not and we're still coming out of that, aren't we

as much? And that period caused a lot of anxiety people. Okay, all right, So we're talking about anxiety, and I feel like I've jumped ahead slightly. So for anybody who doesn't know what anxiety is. And again, I'm sure we've all heard the word we I'm sure we've all felt it. But from a I'm gonna say, from a practitioner's perspective, what is anxiety? And yeah, what is anxiety. Now, I know there's anxiety and there's anxiety disorders. So are they two different things? What are they

so from? Yeah, from the practitioner's perspective or the expects perspective. What is anxiety? One of one of the best descriptions that i've i've I've come across was because, as you said, there is anxiety and there's anxiety's disorder. And I think the difference between those two is we all have anxiety. Every everybody experiences anxiety. But it's like holding a couple of water, you

know, and trying not to spill it. But when you're you're holding it out on when you're and is shaking and the water is spilling, but you still can't put the glass down. And I thought that was the really good description of anxiety, because you're so worried that you know, you're so worried about what you're trying to do, that you can't let it go, you know. And I think that is a description of anxiety to try and you know, and again that's a shift that we're seeing to try and and and

give here now a description of what anxiety is. It comes in so many forms, so many forms that it's almost Um it's something that you experience that is a driver for so many actions and behaviors, right, you know that when you explore behind it, then you then you will find anxiety there.

And that's a shift that I've seen as well, because anxiety used to be more straightforward in its presentation, and I find that it's changing the lots more, a lot of diverse presentations that can be put down to anxiety when you explore them. We tend to worry about so many different things. If it's not your job, or your health, household chores, so many different things

seem to cause us anxiety. Yeah. Yeah, So if somebody that's gonna say, if somebody is feeling anxious or they're presenting with anxiety, what would be some of the symptoms or the signs that you might see or somebody might experience. Um well, I think typically what you would see is a change in their ability to manage their normal daily tasks. You know, they're finding they're finding it a lot harder to cope. Um. They you know,

they use usual coping mechanisms are not are not working. They're overwhelmed. Yeah, they may not be. They may not feel able because a young person. They may be more withdrawn or um say, for example, females tend to be more inward, they may withdraw males. Young males may tend to be more angry, more snappy. You know, it can be a number of things, but there is a change in the ability to manage regular and new challenges right now. What we're seeing. What we're seeing a lot with

young people with social anxiety. Yeah, so you know there's spaces that they occupy, they find those very challenging making friendships, keeping friendships. You know, they can start to struggle with that. So it's it's a broad spread spectrum of what you might see when you see people struggling with anxiety. Yeah, that social anxiety is definitely something I hear a lot as well, especially

for many students, you know, the lockdown experience being a student. They started university in a time where you know, usually they'd be out and about, they'll be making friends, what have you. And many of them might from thads that I've spoken to, have kind of really struggled with that because they weren't in those kind of circles. Obviously, everybody's working remotely. I know, many people shifted very quickly for sort of in person to remote working,

working from home and that kind of thing. So I'd say students, you know, employees all over the across the country, in the world, and then kind of, you know, you're just not making those connections and having to kind of make the effort to do things that you know, we've Technology is an amazing thing and it enabled us to still connect, but that wasn't easy for everybody. You know, suddenly you're on to you know, you're sitting in front of a screen and you're joining a call and everybody can

see. It's even the concept to point your camera on that kind of thing. People found that really found that really difficult to kind of get their head around and do. So, yeah, interesting because that was what we saw. What we saw in the children's services was lockdown was a savior for some children, Yes, you know, because they could stay in the safety of their room, they could do education online, and they were saved from the you know, day to day interactions that you know made them so nervous.

For other children, you know, the isolation brought on new anxieties. Yeah, because they their safety was in in their group of friends and the routine of school, getting away from home, et cetera. So it worked both ways. Yeah, which is Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. It's good enough. Yeah, yeah, I think a job I was of I

was just thinking of my of my I always talk about my children. I was thinking of my children and what um but Vanita just said, I think, like my one of my children, one of my child she struggles too, Like she gets friends and then they turn on her, and she struggles in that sense of, um, you know, trying to want to have friends, but you know, doesn't trust, you know, doesn't try. They always like backstab or they do things to us. She's like, I'm

trying to be your friend, but dude pushing me away. And then I just thought about my son. He had when he first started it, Um not un you're not UNI, but what's the next one? Though it's primary and then the secondary secondary? Right, it was very hard for him. It was difficult and he had to, um get used. He was trying to get used to the school. And then it was a weird thing when the pandemic kit he started playing with some of them on like PlayStation, and

he seemed to develop a relationship with them. When they went back to school, he had, he was more confident because for some reason, now he's like, I know them, even though it was online, he got to know them and got to get comfortable with them. That when he got to school, now he's like he's he like flipped the switch and he became more

more comfortable, where in the first part he wasn't so on. It just clicked him my head when he was saying that that that it just happened like in my own house, I'm like, Wow, that's just how it happens. It's a weird thing because it could go both ways. Yeah, yeah, so they do. I think we're gonna say no. I was going to say. Also with young adults returning to work and going into the office, the anxiety of that and they're only returning to work for two to three

days, and that brings up so much anxiety. And what's common is that they think that others can see their anxiety, and that's what they think. Everyone's going to see that I'm anxious, and that brings them anxiety. Getting on the tube and just being in brant of people in this big group brings

on anxiety. Yeah, as you mentioned that, you know, I recognize I know I was out of London a lot of the time during lockdown and even now not still outside London in a much sort of quieter area, and actually the reality of I realized I hate going on the Tube during Russia Hour, I know, and I can feel my chest titan and a few times that I come into London now I'm like, I tried to start a little bit later because I'm just like, I can't be dealing with the matter people,

the crowd. It was really stressful and I found myself, as you

mentioned, a lesser, getting quite angry about things as well. You know, I guess people are rushing, they've got places to go, and it's just the hustle and bustle, and I'm like I could feel I could feel that, you know, and almost kind of at times near panic attacks, you know, sort of thinking, actually a two pole are too close to me, or you know, people are shoving and pushing and you know, and even to day, I was on the tubesday and a lady fell and

it was almost like, oh, my goodness, that must be so frightening because there's so many people around, and I just thought, yeah, so I can definitely attest to that there's a close link between stress and anxiety,

isn't it? Because you've you sound like you're describing stressed it you know, but if if you experience that, you know, you're a healthy woman with a busy work life, and you experienced that on a day to day basis, But then other things get added into your life and keep having that stress, and more things get added, you find that you start moving into anxiety because I have no capacity left and I have to keep doing this. I have to keep paying the bills, I have to keep hold of my job,

I have to support my children. That quickly becomes overwhelm and anxiety. There is there then a point where because you sort of mentioned obviously there's a level of anxiety that we'll all experience, and I guess there's part of that that my I mean, is it helpful at times to help you cope with certain things or and is then there are a point way to think. Actually, you mentioned about you know, you study don't have the capacity or the

capability to manage on a day to day. At what point then does that become you know, is it a time frame, is it a certain certain things or certain things behaviors or things that are presenting that would make a difference. So at what point would I or should be will become worried? You know, if I if I was thinking, Okay, this is happening all the time at one point, so I think I don't know what enough is enough? I really shouldn't it shouldn't be like this. Yeah, I think.

Um, I think every individual is every individual, it's different. And I think one thing that's useful about these awareness weeks, it's about self awareness, you know, getting to know yourself, getting to understand to your your you know, obviously my my focus is young people getting to know your children, how they function when they're normal, when they're settled, and to to understand when changes happen. You know, you can have two children in their

home and they can shift in completely opposite directions. You know, but it's both is suffering from anxiety, right, you know. So I think it's about knowing yourself, knowing when things start to change and actually you're not coping anymore. So maybe you have a job, you have a job to do, and suddenly you find that you're not managing, you're not coping. Maybe you're not as efficient as you used to be. For no apparent reason.

It could be a number of different things, but it's about your ability to manage your life as it presents, you know, and understanding the difference between just stress and too much to do. And actually, I'm not coping emotionally psychologically with this, and the coping is the everyday stuff. So it's it's

the basic things. If you can't get out of your bed, if you can't get dressed, if you can't do your work, stuff like that, it's every day where you're unable to do that because some anxiety or we can say stress allows you to do things right. When you're unable to get on with your day to day stuff, then I would say seek help in different forms. Okay, all right, well I'm gonna hold that thought. I'm

going to play a piece of music now. Now I'll see they used to share some songs with us that I guess hopefully we'll be inspiring and maybe, you know, we're going to talk about some things that can help manage our anxiety. So we're going to play a track by Lauren Dagle. You say, now, I know this is one of the letter's choices. Tell me about this song and why you like this and why you chose this one.

Well, I'll tell you how I've discovered this song. Um. I have a teenage daughter and she is an only child, and we love road trips. And since my daughter has been about seven, she's been the djh while we're driving any where, you know, and she um, I'm sure she won't she won't be listening, she won't doesn't know I'm here. So I think I can say that she suffers a little from anxiety, but it doesn't

always show. She's very, very good at masking, and that's one of the things that young people do really well with a mask, and she's what she often does is in those car times, she'll say, Mom, do you like this song? Right? And she played this song for me and it was very moving for me because I felt that it was a way of her expressing something that she needed, right, you know. And she played this song night and I fell in love with it ever since. Okay,

I love that, So let me just key that up. So this is going to be you say by Lauren Dagle. I keep fighting voices in my mind that say I'm not enough, every single light that tells me I will never imagine a love am my more than justice. Some of every high and then every low remind me wants again just who I am? Because I need to know. Oh you say I am when I can't feel me. You say I'm shue when I think I'm we can, you say I'm when I'm fulished? And when I don't beloved? Who are you saying? Your and

I be? What you say of me? I believe the only thing that matter is now is everything you think of me? And you I find my worst any you who I find my eye? You see when I can't feel think, you say when I think I'm we and you say when I am fush when I don't belive, you saying you and I believe, But you saying to me believe taking all I heaven Now I'm lady and your feend you have a failure, God you have believing to me? Oh you say when

I can't feel me? You say s when I think I we, You say when I am fish when I don't belong You say and I be, But you say me I what you saying? Wow, that is an amazing song. I have to say I haven't heard that in a little while, but that is definitely going on my playlist. That's a beautiful, beautiful song, and it kind of some of the lyrics really reminded me. Actually, just I was thinking I was sort of got to find some texts around this,

but this really reminded me. Just brought to mind Isaiah forty one, verse ten, where it says fear not for I'm with you, being not dismayed, for I'm your God. I will strengthen you. Yes, i will help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. It really makes me think of you know, the idea of being held by somebody's being held by somebody that's you know, a hug, somebody holding your hand. It can in any bring comfort and the fact that the fact that God

is promising to do that for us. So yeah, I love that. So I will be adding that to my playlist. That's a fantastic choice for that one. So if you are just joining us, thank you. This is talking point and today we're talking about mental health aware this week and anxiety this week's thebe If you have any points to add to that, please do share them with us. If you want to let us know anything that brings you anxiety, we'd love to hear that or any tips or points that you

do. Things that you do that can help you. You can text us on eight triple two eight right hope and then your message we can email us at studio at Advantage Radio dot London. And we have got v Letter and Dorothy our therapist on the show today, and we've also been joined by another guest as well. We've got Anthea Davis. Thank you so much for joining us today. Really good to have you back on again. The last time it was oh but that's true. Yeah, my bad, believe that's right.

That's true. That's true. I think that's how we were on. It was Black History Month. Yes, um, so welcome, thank you for joining us again. Um So, just to recap, we've been talking about, like I said, mental Health Awareness Week and importance of having these awareness weeks, and you know why it's really important to have these to kind of start the conversation, to remind people bring to the forefront particular themes or

topics or areas. And this year's theme has been anxiety, which I fact was kind of an interesting one, something that we probably all experience to you know, maybe a mild level and some level anxiety sometimes can help us get things done. However, I guess when it's not going so well, and we were just sort of talking about you know, at what point does it all become too much? At what point do you think, actually, this is too much. I need to get some help with that, and Blessed

was just sharing you know what that kild you like? So do you have any thoughts on that anthea at all? I do, I do, Angela, And I actually really like the Bible text that you just you just mentioned because I think as a Christian we have extra resources that other people don't have to deal with their resources. And in the poem that if you don't mind I share with you in a few minutes, I will, you know. I think it's an excellent segue between a text and the poem that I have

that I've written about it. And as somebody who had to diagnose general anxiety

disorder, anything can triggering my anxiety. I mean, it's under control at the moment, but there have been times in my life when anxiety has been really, really sky high and has been actually debilitating in a way that perhaps most people have not experienced, because you know, if it becomes it hasn't happened very often, but it has happened to me and I you know, one of the things I wanted to talk about is in Hostes syndrome, right, you know, in the worksphere that you know, you're trying to do

different things you your you know, it might be a new job, a new situation, a new project that you've got to that you want to attempt, but your anxiety can really play havoc with you and stop you from achieving or for attempting new things because you're so scared about wanting to you know, about how how are you going to do it? And being creative. I think that works against me because I have a whole scenario where I'm escorted off

by the police or you know, or for many different things. You know, that's probably a bit of an exaggeration, but you see what I mean. I've I've made up a whole chain of events or things that are going to happen because people are thinking this of me and they're thinking that of me, and you have to really just take a step back and have to calm down. That's not being able to put the glass down that we were mentioning before. You know, you just got these thoughts are raised them and you

can't put it down. Yes, yes, exactly, and yeah, yeah, thank you for thank you for sharing that with us. So for you, how did how did anxiety present itself for you initially? And at what point did you think okay, because obviously you said you've had you've got a diagnosis of anxiety disorder. How did that kind of start for you? Was there any the particular trigger if you're you know, if you're able to share that I started having anxiety taxes. I had I start having anxiety taxes.

So that would be shortness of breath, not being able to breathe to the point where it can you know, it was hard to think and so long as it happened was over a couple of days, so it would really you know, it could quite escalate, and over the university I remember, yeah, it was two or three days that I had an anxiety. I had to come back home from university, and the anxiety was just building and building

and building. And I think learning to be able to write down my thoughts, actually write them down and say, well, how much of what you're thinking is actually relevant to real life? And and and Stephen Beck and saying actually a lot of this is really unreasonable and not true. And I am enough. I am enough, and God is good and he is here with me. Um. You know that has really helped me to support me um,

you know, and in developing. But if you want to know that the actual truth for it, I think being abused, you know, when I was younger that you know, set off my anxiety and it only triggered when I was eighteen, right, but you know that that well, when I was eighteen, that, yeah, that's when it actually came to the forefront. And I know that there are many of your listeners who might be

able to relate because those kind of experienced this. And I thank God for therapy, I thank God for family and everything's you know, under control now. But it has presented itself at different times in my life. Okay, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that with us. And yes, you know, it's a it's a difficult it's a difficult one and as you said, there could be things that could as you mentioned that, everything that could

trigger it and bring it back. So Dorothy to your to yourself for you have you kind of you know, in terms of the people that come your way, is that kind of a similar story that you may have heard from people. What kind of things have triggered any of your clients that come to see you or people that you've come across. Yeah, similar things. Yeah, definitely, it's I think it was mentioned before. It could be nearly

anything. It could be something they've watched on Telly. So you say to people, be careful what you expose yourself to, what conversations do you have, what you listen to on the radio, on television. You know how much time you spend on your own. This can bring up so many different fee feelings, and anxiety is one um but yes, it's usual. Anxiety usually stands from not being from a child, not being taught to deal with your changes. Maybe it might be just changes in life in your circumstances.

So there's this thing about sometimes we want to do everything for our children, and maybe it's best for them not to do it. So when they don't get it right or it doesn't go as expected, we can teach them. We can help them if they've been through difficult situations, whether it's an informal trauma, it's helping them to support them through it. Otherwise, what happens as a child when they gets to an adult, it will come out in

different ways. And has there been I guess, you know, with everything that's been happening in society, do you think and you've talked about the prevalence of anxiety, has it I mean, has that always been the case or is it really kind of on the rise like it appears it appears to be. Statistics may say that, you know, warning how many people suffer from

that? But has that just been the case or is this really a case of you know, because of awareness raising activities and events and weeks that we're just hearing more about it. Have people been anxiety? I think it's always been there. If I go back to reliable to charge, just that's what this is where labels can be good because I don't always think that labels can be good. You know, I would be that's what's what's the matter.

And if you couldn't explain yourself, if you didn't have the language, don't just say you're being silly. Now there's been studied and people have put labels, Oh that's anxiety. You used to have children that wet their beds and they used to just say your lazy, you're silly. Something you watched or you drank too much water and it could have been anxiety because they were frightening to get out of the bed or whatever reason. So, but nobody knew

it as anxiety. So has it been around? I feel it's been around, but we didn't There wasn't a label. We didn't know how to say. And we're coming from, remember we're coming from. It depends on where

you're brought up. Different cultures, so when you travel and you go abroad and things just that traveling and you're living in a different society or shared the occupances, and if you were brought up in maybe a country where you lived with the doors open, and then you come to a country where it's cold and you have to lock yourself up and you don't know what's happening, and your parents don't know, and you don't know how to explain it to others.

But it's been there right now, what we're finding is that with these awareness weeks and days and things like that, Yes, people have found the language and we're talking about it more. Yeah. I think, Um, what's contributing to the rise as well is because you've seen anxiety as a comobility. When well comobility, I'm speaking like about work when you see anxiety walking hand in hand with something else. So often we refer to anxiety and depression

or anxiety in the context of ASD and what we're seeing. There's a lot more autism coming through the system now, a lot more children are being diagnosed with with anxiety. And you know, we're living in a fast pace society, and you know, if you've got the autism, you know, you liked to to know routine, you like to know when things are happening,

and society is just so fast moving, even for children. They've got such busy lives, you know, with activity easton school and homework, and it becomes very difficult, and so anxiety becomes very much more of a presenting feature of conditions like autism, ADHD, etc. Because life is so difficult to

manage. And also they're under a lot of pressure. I was talking to a colleague of mine whose child is about to take those SAT exams, and there's been I think it's been quite a lot about that in the media at the moment about I guess how much pressure they're under and children being in tears at sort of six seven. One of the ages that you have to take them you know, because of the pressure of that. And I was just like that, it's just it's almost unbelievable because why would you want to put

children under that level of pressure. And I know you kind of want to set children up to kind of be successful and to succeed, but that surely can't be the way, you know, And you know, I guess different schools are different. I mean they were sort of saying, you know, in their school they have to do, you know, all these things that a load of stuffer the parents to do, which my colleague was finding very frustrating, but even something like reading out the results in front of everybody.

It was just like that was just traumatic for some of these children. And I was like, why would you do that, especially if you're then on the flip side not giving them the tools to be able to equip Um, I think you're mentioning that as well, and the resources. Um. So

yeah, I find that. So I guess it's you know, it's interesting to he say it a letter about you know, the level the levels of sorry, the ages, and I guess, is it getting younger for the diagnosises and it's linked with other things as well, whether that you know, being that's only increase as well. Um, you know, I think we've you know, I've mentioned a lot about you know, Pedro's mentioned his children

and you know, dealing with them. But I think, you know, for me as a parent, I've never been as anxious scene because I think when you have that responsibility of young lives, you know, you you you kind of want to drive them to do as much as you can because you're so anxious for their outcome to be the best it can be, because you know that the life ahead is going to be challenging, and so you want

them to do this. Do you want them to be involved in that, you want them to have the friends, you want them to do well at school, and so you know, through our own anxieties, we put a lot on our kids because we want the best for them. Yeah, if you got to add, yeah, I was just going to add. Added to all that, you also have social media, and you know I did.

We didn't have to grow up with the amount of social media that the young people are having to deal with nowadays, of having to present themselves online and in person and you know, the conscout department of images of what they should be like. Yeah, it's filtered images of what they should be like in the standards thereof You know, I used to have to pick up a magazine. Now it's twenty four seven. You're getting notifications to your phone all

the time, and I think that comes with a lot of pressure. And you know, I work with different schools, and there is no doubt that, you know, there is an increase. You know, I was a teacher for ten years, but that was a while ago, and I can see that there is this seems no doubt to be an increase in the amount of mental health issues that the young people are facing in schools nowadays. Yeah. And do you think and with you you and less I think you mentioned

about you taught as well, and there for you're in education. Do you think the systems are equipping children, young people and even maybe in the workplaces as well as adults to actually be able to manage some of these things based on the amount of pressure that people are under. Yeah, definitely. And working in education, even as a therapist, work in education, there's anxiety because what if I did it wrong, What if I don't what if I

don't spot something? If I send this child home and they're being you know, there's so much and I think that's somebody. I think somebody mentioned it earlier. One thing about having faith is is the scriptures that we have, and that's all I have to draw on. Yeah. One of my favorite ones is in Pewter. I think it's first Pewter five six. Cast all your anxieties on godars. For me, that's something that I just have to claim a lot of the time because we can just do what we can do.

Yeah, and let it go. So and I you know, drawing on my faith gets me through the amount of anxiety that comes my direction all the time. Yeah, yeah, Okay, say we're gonna come to another piece of music. I think, Dorothy, this is one of your choices. Chances by Isa Carey that ring a bell to you. Yeah, I mean you just say the time. I don't know that, I don't remember I mentioned it. But again, it is about take that I just spoke

about. As a professional, as a moth bar we have to take chances sometimes we take we have to you do things' it's to your intention, yes, And you know, if you put everything in God's hand, you take the chance. You have faith. It's the faith walk, isn't it. Yeah? Okay, so I'm gonna take listen to this Isaac career and chances I do do things that won't bring me closer to no reason excuse for most of them. So why do we respond you for my part in bushing you

away when the deserve to be left alone you stay? Couldn't hell, but notice something that just keeps hamer doesn't make much sense to me, but he does it again and again. Lord, I promise this is really the last time said he's one sorry for night. Brain It must have slim mind mind I never wanted. If you give me this one, I'll never do it again. When will I learn my last? What will life be if I ring not of chances, my clause, that soul full love? Things I

don't want you to see. If you knew all love about me, you'd questioned my being. I know I haven't made for each of the mistakes I made, so thank you for keeping seeing little Lord. Let me just say could now, but notice something that just keeps happen name. It doesn't make my sense to me, But he does it again again. Lord, I promise this is me me the last time said sorry for night. It must have said my mind even get me out of pace one. I'm never do

me again. When one my listener, what will life be if I ran out of chancing? Comer spouse me. That's the only way that I'll be free. Baby my come my bone. Even if it sounded I don't want to see. I don't want sime your dee no said it a falls in time, and I really want to get it. Lord, I'm from ostness. Is when the last time we all say these word sorr read for not dree, I must have slew my mind. I never wanted even get me all of this one. I'll never do it again. When will I learn

my lesson? Where will life be for ran out of chances? Oh? Another beautiful song there as well. Um, I wants really good lyrics and that's a good choice on that one. And as everything you said, it's about taking chances. But in this song it really made me. You know, some of the lyrics are saying and sometimes we forget that God is there with us, and sometimes you don't pray enough. And as you said about holding onto your faith and you know, remembering all the promises. There's so

many scriptures. I know I had a whole list here with me. You know, sometimes we forget that is, despite the way life is treating us as it would seem. You know, there's so much that we can hold onto because God has got us there. So as we're talking about lyrics, yeah, it's like, oh, these are all going on my playlist. I have a long Spotify playlist, so I should be looking up this one. Anthea, you mentioned about your creativity and how that's been something to help

you manage your own anxiety. And you have something to share with us, which I'm really looking forward to. So over to you tell me about what you're going to share with us today. Yes, the poem that I wrote is called I Am He, and I wrote it quite a few years back, in twenty ten. And you know, I think one of the ways that I got into the poetry in the first place was using it as an

outlet for my emotions. And I remember that this situation that I wrote it about, I was feeling high levels of anxiety, and I remember I prayed and then I wrote this poem out of that experience of talking to God and praying in the rain, and it's called I Am He. I was walking on a winter's day and the rain came down like sheets of tangible despair flash splashing over my beleagued soul. Oh Lord, I whispered, knowing that no one else could help, and he replied, I am he. Not familiar

with the reply, I stayed silent, not knowing what to say. Next, he said again, I am he. For when God says I am he, he means I am he who parted the water and made my children walk on dry land. I am he who can stop time and space simply because I made it. I am he who needs nothing, made everything, and love so much it defies me. I am he who made you and knew you before you were born. I am he that loves you with an everlasting love which goes beyond your comprehension. When you go through the fire,

I am he. When the way forward seems unsure and there's no way back, I am he. The fires cannot destroy you, the floods cannot overwhelm you. Neither can death conquer you. For I am he. I am he who has the only legitimate claim to be worshiped, Because I am he who died, retrieved the keys to death, paid the price for sin, and it's coming back with leaders of angels to take all those who love me

back to mansions of such beauty that language only limits the understanding of. Do not question my wisdom, doubts my understanding, gets frustrated over my timing, and limit my power to answer your earnest PLEA. For and and had been and shall forever more be he who is the answer to your every problem. I will hear, answer and deliver, not always in the way you want,

but always in accordance with my divine plan for your future. As I progressed through the inclement weather, my mind was now focused on what was meant in his address. As soon smiled as I understood that in just announcing his presence, he had already answered my unspoken requests. Oh I'm clicking my fingers. That was fantastic. Oh, loving it, loving it, loving it, loving it. Yes, let's marinate on that for a moment now, Anthea, is that written somewhere where I could find that? I have terrible

memories? So not at president President. It's something in the okay, all right, Well, I'm looking for to be able to say read that again. Although you can't listen back, we do podcast on our shows, so you can find this on Spreaker look for a rlse. So yeah, loving that. So you know, so you wrote that better difficult time? How for you has the creativity? You know what part has that played for you overall? Oh that's an interesting question. I think it's helped me massively.

I think being able to remember I walked out of a job. It sounds impetuous. I had finished a job, right, I didn't have a job to go so it was a difficult situation. But I didn't have a job to go to. But I decided to leave. I was sitting on the stairs. My husband was about to become a student. I had no job coming in and I just said, oh Lord, what am I going to do? Wrote a poem being able, you know, and I expressed and so poetry for me as a prayer, it can be a prayer and then

being able to look back and seeing that God has answered. If you're like, wow, look look what he has done. So you know, look at the Bible, the psalms, their poetry. I'm in by the Bible, and that, you know, the Bible is very much in its language and equivalent to Shakespeare. It's just that because it's the religious dext we don't it's not used in our schools as widely, although you know it is seen and upheld as you know, being of a very high standard of literature.

And I am now a professional poet. This is what I do. I go into schools, I work with charities, corporates and other other creatives to do creative projects. And so creativity. When my brother died, poetry became something as well that helps me to understandard to cope with that situation. So creativity has helped me in many different ways, whether that be poetry or music. And like I said, just the Bible. The Bible is replete with

people talking to God in song and in poetry as well. You mentioned your work within schools and you are you finding we also to talk about anxiety and some of me with their children, young people you work with. Are you finding those that you're seeing that that is an emotional outlet for them as well, and some of the things that they write may reveal some of the things that they're going thing through or struggling with. Well, I've been doing a

lot of performance rather than being in the classroom per se. But you do, I can see the resonance with the students and also interestingly with the teachers as well. So when I go into schools, I'm really really open about my own mental health journey and like, hey guys, you know, if you have problems, please do get help. And and I try it with poetry to connect with an emotion right and get an emotional response, you know. And so the students will they'll be like, Okay, what about that

image? What about this miss And you know, the students will come afterwards and tell me, and the teachers will tell me. One teacher said to me, you know, after your approacher, I went home and I was in tears and I told my husband. She said, words could be so powerful. And you know that that idea of being able to bring a little bit of link or a little bit of an oasis through poetry and encouraging you

know. Last weekend I was a charity event for ASNA. Was at the weekend advent So Special Needs Association that so I was with them for the weekend and doing workshops with the cares about the you know, using poetry and creative writing as a way of them being able to you know, channel their experiences and write it down. And I use the text. Oh I think it's in a vehicle when he says, you know, it was like a fire

in my bones. You know, I had to when I didn't speak your name, it was like a fire in my bones, you know, I had to let it. I had to let it out. And there's so many things that go unstead for young people and for adults, and being able to give life to those words in paper, through poetry, through creativity, through song, it can be a real outlet and a real sense of emotional

released for many people. And that's one of my really key girls that of going into schools and helping I'm very passionate about mental health and helping people to identify with emotions that sometimes they don't even they don't even have the words. And so if you don't have the words, maybe some of my words will help you to identify feeling within yourself. Yeah, and as you said, words are powerful, and Dorothy you mentioned that before as well, that you

know, maybe back in the day people didn't have those words. So using different mechanisms and tools and strategies to help to do that definitely your way with that. So thank you Anthea for sharing that. You may have to shoot off, so if you do, thank you for sharing. But obviously, do you stay as long as you can do? Pedro, Do you have any questions for our ladies before we're going to go on too in terms of

when things are getting too much what we can do with that? Well, yeah, I did have a question um with fear, but I answered I always put an ell in there for some reason. But I was listening to your to your to your own poem and I was thinking to myself that I was me or that is me, um, and I guess the question would

be more like um. Growing up. I know sometimes I think people we go through life where we don't diagnose that we have anxiety, or that we are stressing, or that we you know, some people go through where they don't even never get diagnose, so get counseling. But then you look back on your life and like I always took about it for myself because I don't like to talk about it. How can I like for other people because everybody's different. So I was connect with my own personal and I remember like when

I was younger, I would would um Vanita. Vanita said about the glass. That's the perfect example because like I was just saying to my family last last night or two nights ago that, Um, I remember when I feel like I was running one thousand miles, I was running a thousand miles an hour, but I wasn't going anywhere. My body just felt like it was just shaking, and I just felt like this, this overwhelming just come over me. And then I started thinking, what you what you just said?

I think with I just started saying to myself, you know, God, God has me, and I think what Dorothy said about we have we have extra with the Bible, we have so much extra that we can look at it. And I think I just started I just stought to just trust in God and know like, Okay, God, You're gonna take care of this. God, You're gonna handle this. And at what time, like things

that just started to go Wait where I haven't, I haven't. I can't remember the last time I had something like that happened to me where I just felt like my body was just you know, shaking. So I guess my Christian would be more than anything like. But then when you do that, you know the devil could be. It's still strong. He's you know, he's he's a very powerful being, just as not as powerful as God,

but he's a powerful being. Then I feel like then you go into like depression and I don't mean the well like where you start doing other things that you normally don't do. So how do you handle like if you're able to get yourself where you're not as anxious as before, but then there's other things happening? Or does it? Does it sometimes manifest in a different way and

then you have to so that that would be my question. So if you're suffer from anxiety or anxiousness, but then you feel like you got a good um, you feel like you have kind of got a hold of that somewhat to an extent, how do you know if it starts manifesting in another way that it can still be anxiety but you just don't recognize it. Does that question makes sense? The question makes sense? I think first of all, I think there are people here who have more expertise from an action I was.

I was asking Anita, and then I was just saying no, no, no, no no. I was just saying that I love your poem because it just when you said the poem, that's how I was like with anxiousness and stuff. And then I just started to I just started giving it to God. Like to me that poem was about giving it to God and God saying back to me, I got you, I got you, Pedro, I got you, I got I just give it to me. I

got it. But even with that in mind, because I know, I know of situations that you know, people think because we're ventors where we are immune to certain things. I know of eventors that have committed suicide, you know, have self harmed, have done things, and they say, well, you're in the Bible, you you have the Bible, you love the Lord. Why would God let that happen to you? And they don't understand.

Yeah, that's one of the myths. They don't understand that just because I loved the Lord doesn't mean it I still don't suffer with anxiety or depression or you know, or stress, and it could still it could still happen to us. So that that's why I was actually praying a question to the professionals on the boil here. You know what I would say to that is, you know, I said, the majority of my work is anxiety. And one of the things that I always say to young people and their families

that there is not a cure for anxiety. There's no cure for it, you learn to live well with it. So there will be times when it's in charge of you, and there will be in times when you're in charge of it. Yeah, And if you ignore it, or if you pretend it's sort of there, it will rise up somewhere. You know. Then there will be times where you go through, you know, times of ease where maybe things are going well in your life and anxiety doesn't bother you as

much. But I think it's good for people to to get counseling. Maybe there's you know, things that that float the anxiety of weickered, the anxiety that you have not dealt with, Yeah, and so that would be a good thing. But I think also we need to know ourselves. For me, I'm trying to teach my daughter. She gets on the phone to me as soon as she gets out of school, you know, she comes home. I may run a hot bath for her, yeah, not for cleaning,

but for relaxing, you know. Or it may be let's just listen to some music, or shall we go for a walk. Because what I'm trying to teach her is that anxiety is not going to go away, you know, It's got to be responded to and dealt with. You've got to know yourself, what relaxes you, what reduces your anxiety. And you know, as we've been saying already, we're very fortunate as believers that there's so much in the scripture. There's so much in the scripture that if we,

you know, say like a mantra. You know, people that don't have the scripture, they use other mantras. I am beautiful, I am, I am, you know, but for us, we have a wealth of scripture that we can adopt as manage but we have prayer, you know, and let's use those as tools to manage our anxiety and to keep it in check. Yeah, I'm following on from what the letter has said. As I heard you speak about your experience, Pedro, I wanted to stop for you and say, just breathe, just breathe. A lot of the time

we just forget to breathe. Yea, literally stop. So, well, how do you manage it? Breathe it? You did so much when on in your brain, and they've talked about she got it out of her head and wrote it down, and that's what she does. She gets it out and she uses penda paper. I wanted to say to you, first of all, just breathe. And then what the letter was saying about? What works for you? Is it writing? Is it singing? Is it going for a walk? What works for you? And then, as a Christian?

What are your tech So have a few of them written down? So there's one. There's a couple in Philippians Philippians four six and seven. What does that say? Do not be anxious about anything? But in every situation, prayer and petition with thanksgiving were sent your request to God, and the peace of God will transcend all understanding. Will God your hearts and your mind in Christ Jesus. If you're you know, you know, we don't want

to spiritualize it, but they help just breathing. Hold on to one text and read it a couple of times, you know, just to have a few there ready for yourself. Find that And so the main thing is get help if you can't do yourself. What works for me? What helps me to write to feel better? Is it singing? Is it writing? Is it just breathing? And as I breathe, I let it go. I

let go that thought. I don't spiral because what I heard you do pedroble spiral So what if it means that this is why I'm being anxious now, because that's I'm not anxious about that now I'm anxious about that. Maybe it is, and maybe it's not. Who really cares right now? Mindful what's going on right now? Who needs my attention right now? Maybe I need it. Maybe I just need to drink some water and focus. Oh that was it I was, yeah, with my brain was kind of going racing,

trying to figure what I was trying to say. Probably do need to write things down. Sometimes I'm bad at that. Yeah, Yeah, I'm definitely bad at that. I'm more me personally, more for me to to um. I kind of just meditate my job by driver a lot, and I actually thinks that's why my job, because I'm in between jobs, I can, like Angelsta earlier, put the window down or open the sunroof and

just feel the sun on my face. And as I'm driving, I'm just I don't even put the music on a nothing, I'm just like just thinking to myself or like you said, breathe, Pejo, calm down, just you know, just just it's gonna be okay. And that gets me, you know, that kind of just helps me throughout the day. And that's why I think I love my job so much, because the driving for me is therapeutic just looking at the sites I go through, countrysides, I go

through towns and just seeing different things. It's just it's just relaxing to me. So I think that's why I love driving so much because of that reason. Yeah, I'm not can attest to that as well, Patrick that I did a lot of that and actually, especially sometimes when I felt quite stressed anxious, going for a drive, it's just great. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. The argument the wife and I just I would just say, look, i'll be back, not being I have no problem, you know

me, I'm very upfront. Even when I was gonna ask i'll get an argument, I say, look, I just gotta go, and I just leave a fifteen minute drive. It could be one in the morning and then come back and then it's like the waiter is lifted off my shoulders. How we can talk or we could talk in the morning or whatever. But it

just made it just made a difference. The drive just helped. Yeah, yeah, but question just quickly, I'm just I know Anthea wants to say, Andia, you go, oh okay, Oh yeah, I was just gonna say, you know, coming up from the same side as Pedro, you know, as somebody who can get anxious, um, that knowing your triggers is also I found goodness, That's what I was interrupt to say.

Yeah, I've learned that knowing my trick is is really really important. So if I'm in this situation and I start behaving in a certain way, oh ansia your anxiety levels, you know, and I may I may need to remove myself from that situation, or or if I start, I mean, for me, it could be silly things like if I'm phoning my mom or my aunt or my dad for you know, or my husband, and I'm asking you really really stupid questions. It's very basic things that I could answer

myself. But I then I stop, I start, Can I do this? Should I leave the house? Should I I'm beginning to ask people's silly questions because my anxiety levels have really raised. Lay so I'm now, you know, nominating other people to help me run the basic task of my life. That's a that's a side for me of answer of increasing levels of anxiety. So knowing what your triggers are, I think, is so important.

I'm sure you know. I can give you a more academic, you know, philosophy, you know, rapist reason as to why you should know the triggers. But for me, I've just found that that is one of the coping mechanisms and just knowing as as I know was mentioned as bio Dorothy that this is not going and I think it was it was Antivens saying that you know, it's not going away. I realized at first I thought I'm cured. No, It's something that I'm always going to have to deal with in

some way. And as Patri said, it can it doesn't necessarily manifest itself in one way. It can manifest itself in another way at some point. But you can manage it. You can get through it. It's not a life sentence, UM, but you need to manage it and not allow it to manage you. I think I would add to that as well, is

is no where your anxiety is coming from. So if you have UM if in your family, you know you've got a long line of people whose character or personality is quite anxious, you know, then then maybe you know that's just a family trait and it's something that you learn to work with. It may be that you've come from a quite traumatic experience, you know, and I think it's really important for for you to take time out to deal with that, for anyone, you know, to take time out to deal with

that. And I think we're very good at you know, if we have a physical element, we will move evan and earth, we will sell the house to fix our kids, we will go without a car. But when it comes to getting a bit of counseling for ourselves so that we can function better, we're reluctant to invest in that. And I think, you know, for those listening, that's what I would say. You know, if you know that you've had a traumatic incident in your life, it could be

forty years ago. You know, that thing, if it's untreated or unexplored, will be ruminating around and causing anxiety. So I would say, go and value yourself enough to go and talk to someone about it. Cool. Thank you, So, I think I know you've got to shoot off, So thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate your insights and your creativity, and I'm sure we'll have you back on again because I know you've got to go to share. So thank you, so much for that and showing

experience. Thank you so m for letimes. You were just mentioning there, but if you need to help, So if okay, I've recognized that things are getting too much. You know, I'm struggling from day to day. And actually, yeas Anthew was just mentioning about you know sometimes so she's asking questions or you can't make decisions, and I know I've often I felt that way. I really related to that, like, you know, the basic things that I think I should know how to do? What would be the

steps that somebody would take? You know, what would you say somebody does? Because it's like I guess at that point you need some help, So what would you do? What would somebody do? And that's both a letter and Dorothy there and what would be my first step if that was me? You go, Dorothy. I think some of the things have been mentioned about get to know yourself, get to know your triggers. So what what's going

on? I said earlier? Breathe when you're feeling this coombobulated, when you're feeling anxious, when you're feelings stress, actually breathe, sit with yourself and recognize it's okay, it's okay, and this too shall pass. That's a strong word. It will pass. Whatever it with. Don't get stuck in it and find out what works for me. You can't do on your own. Reach out. Reach out there is if you did no one in your family, If you haven't got friends, go and get support outside of your

family own, go to someone in church. But sit and know it will pass. It's not a life sentence. We've talked about the breathing. We've talked about reading, We've talked about talking. They don't work, you know, as and if you're if you are a Christian Christian. We talked how the Bible, the psalms. There's so many texts in the Bible claim one

to make it your mantra and keep moving, don't get stuck. But if I find that I am stuck and I think, okay, I can't do this by myself, you know, and I think, okay, I may need some professional help. Would it be a case of approaching my doctors or that would I look for We mentioned about counseling. How would I know you know what the best see It's difficult to know what the best thing would be?

M But would go into my GP be a good starting point to talk about that or would it be you know, looking online resources or I think, um, I think going to your GP is is useful, it's a good thing to do. I think it depends again, it depends on who

you are and what your circumstances are. If your anxiety is fairly new, you know, you know you're going to go to the GP and get me get medication and that that can help you, but it's not going to sort out the root cause you know, so sometimes when we have when we have anxiety, you know, if you're getting to the point where you're um, you know, you're you're tearful and as Pedro said, you're shaky, or you know, it may be anxiety brought on from over overwhelmed. Stop what's

going in and your going on in your life? You know? Yeah, to take it, you know, take an inventory, see what's going on? Am I doing too much and for too long? You know? Have there been traumatic events, traumatic losses in your life? You know, and you've just got up and carried on. It could be a number of things.

So to take an inventory of your life, see what's going on, try and do some make some of those changes that can bring a bring back a little bit of a peace, give you a time, as Dorothy says, to just take a breather, you know. And if that's still not working, then I would say, you know, yes, go and go and see your GP. But I would not neglect talking therapy. You know, they're a different thing. Not everybody can afford talking therapis, but some

people keep things in. They may have a good friend who would be so happy to have a conversation with them and talk about things that are on their mind. Talking is so valuable, you know. And if you can't do it with a professional, do it with a friends, you know, or do it with a you know, a pastor. Yeah, okay, but I would say get get help, get help, and let medications be a last resort because it doesn't deal with the root cause. And as you mentioned

about therapy, what sort of types of them? And I know there are different types of therapy out that out there, you know, what therapies are commonly used to kind of to treat anxiety or anxiety disorders? Are the specific types you mentioned talking therapy? Um, And I know both of you kind of have a slightly different what's the word, different genre genre that's thank you of you know, the therapy that you do. Sorry, trying to get to the therapeutics to speak there. Um, So what kind of things are

out there that I commonly used? Um? And as I'm saying that, I wonder are all of these kind of use for the because I guess you know, the different clouds that you come through the way in which you work can be beneficial to different people depending on the situation. Um. But yeah, it's but speak to that for that for me. Well, the one that is is I identified by the nice guidelines is um is CBT, because

anxiety is about is about the thoughts, isn't it. It's about how the how the thoughts impact the behaviors, and it goes around in a cycle. You know, your your your brain works one way, your thoughts work one way, and it impacts your behaviors and so on. And so what this CBT tries to do is to interrupt that cycle and get you to think about things in a different way. That's cognitive behavioral therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, so it tries to just um, work with the cognitions and have

people challenge their anxiety in that way. So that's the one that's that's indicated. But there are many ways of working with working with anxiety. One of them, um oh, both or Dorothy and I, you know, we've done EMDR, we've trained in EMDRUM and that can be helpful as well to

interrupt um interrupt thought patterns, and so that's quite useful. That's quite as quite a new newish, relatively new new treatment eye movement, desensitization reprocessing, And it just speaks to the fact that, um, you know, trauma can get get locked in the brain and there were certain processes that can help to shift that so that you can be less anxious or less triggered by things that have happened to you in the past. But that's another long story for

another day. So it was a part two coming. I can always feel that do I think you're going to add to that very much like what the letter was saying. But with the CBT, for me, that's a holding since somebody says, I think it's always good to find out what's the the root cause, what's the root cause where CBT can interrupt the process, what's the root cause? And also I want to say as well, when you're feeling anxious, as well. Get a blood test sometimes because sometimes it's because

we're not quite fo Now that's so true. That's so true, get a blood test. Let's don't just go for medicine. There could be something physically right us and and bitamin d all of these things. Magnesium, that's right saying all those things. So yeah, things like that as well. So there are a lot with children, might be drama therapy and young adults drama therapy, play therapy. There are so many different types of therapy too that we can tap you. But I wouldn't be doing my job if I did

not talk about systemic therapy or family therapy. You know, I think, especially when you're even with children, systemic therapy he does. It's at the

root of it is that children can't change their lives themselves. You can't do therapy with a with a child and say okay, go and you know, and enjoy something different because their world is wrapped up in their family, the way their family functions, the beliefs that their family have, and so when a child is dealing with anxiety, it's it's it's always good to take a systemic approach and talk with the family members together and see if things can shift

there. You know, how our parents dealing with their anxiety. Maybe it's sometimes one of the things that happened with children is they worry so much about their family. They worry so much about their parents, they don't want to go to school because if things are not going well with parents, they don't know what they're going to find into when they get home, you know. So systemic therapy is often good as well when we find a young person,

you know, inexplicably, you know, filled with anxiety. You know, it's partially to do with school, but we find often that it's about how they're held at home and they're worried about family life as well. So systemic

therapy is always useful in that sense. So cool, Okay, we wanna take another break because, as you mentioned about one of the going I'm going to go back to the idea of kind of knowing ourselves and think about we've talked about some of the things that we can do to help ourselves, but also what the community or our support networks or people around can do to support

people, and also with our churches as well. And I know, Dorothy and I'm going to plug for initiative that you have set up over in Ballum. So we're talking a little about that. We're going to go with another piece of music. This is going to kind of linking with the idea of as stopping and breathing. So this is Peace be Still by the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir, and it's one of the letter's choices as well. And yeah, the idea of just stopping and breathing and you know, try to get some

calm and some peace. So Peace be Still, the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir. The clouds began together, the winds began to blow, darkness over to the day, and fees began to grow. The man upon the tiny ship didn't know j water to do, so they went to awake the Master. For his my words they new, and he said, sisters, that's all the

Master to say. To stay he jes When clouds of down begin together, and winds of sorrow start to blow, and this darkness all around you and fees begin to grow, be John fit to Jesus, for he knows just work to do. And then your trouble war his luck with see your blue her say stay Spa. That's all to say. Your say, And okay, peace is still the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir UM, and that's we usual. I looked round and all of a sudden, it is that time. So

we're fast approach at the end of the show. UM in a great show. So far, I think I've learned a whole heap and as much as I kind of dabble in that area, I've learned quite a lot today. So I think there's gonna be a few things that I'm going to take away from this, but just wanted to go over some of that. We've talked about some of the things that you can do obviously, talked about some therapies.

We've talked about things that we can do for ourselves as well. And I think the key thing I'm gonna take away is it really about knowing yourself. But what can our community and I say community, and I mean whether it's our family or our friends by church, what can they do to kind of help support anybody who's going through anxiety. Because I think it's great that

we know ourselves, but you'll could do with a helping hand. And you've both everybody's mentioned about reaching out to people, So what can people do to help each other? You know, what can we do to encourage our communities

to support general mental health, but especially anxiety. But one of the things that balloon you started to say before the break, pastor a PUCO, under his leadership, we started up our mental health and well Being department and a couple of things that we do a bit where we started today about having an awareness week. Each week we post something in the bullet teine and on the screen something to do with mental health. So we're making it, we're normalizing

it. We're not waiting to have a particular day. We're integrating it into the service. So it's like posting on Instagram or Facebook post and now we attach a scripture with it so it comes oh that might be me. Someone might might relate to it and say, oh, that sounds like well I'm going through. Another thing we do each month we take up ten minutes or the Personal Ministry spot and we give sometimes it's really example members of the team

how we struggle with anxiety, sericide, depression. Anything we give, we talk about it, so again normalize that. We're bringing it into the church on a Sabbath, but it's been recorded so it becomes part of what we do. And then we have a phone number an email please contact us. So I guess I'm saying normalize in it, we're talking about anxiety week. It's great, but let's don't forget or more suffering. So what the church

can do is talk about it more. Yeah, and I guess talking as it's just about normalizing because I know obviously we've there's so many stigmas around mental health anyway, and anxiety can will fall under that as well. And you know, Pedro, you will lose to this earlier in terms of you know, because we are Christians, maybe we shouldn't be suffering in that way. Um. Oh, We've got God on our side and it should be okay.

But actually that's not always the case, you know, And there are many biblical characters who were probably suffering from who We're suffering from stress, we're suffering from depression, we're under pressure, we're really struggling, um, and you know demonstrated that. So yeah, it's a normalizing Yeah, definitely, definitely good idea. I think I have to advocate for the children. That's

my area. And um, when I was growing up, I think the church has changed, you know, And I don't know because i'm you know, maybe I'm in, you know, just just my area and everywhere hasn't changed. But my feeling is that that the church has changed as a community, you know. And when I grew up in the church, everybody was everybody was auntie, everybody was was on called, you know, and church

was a safe place for children to grow up in. And I think parents have become more For myself, I know that I've not grown up given as much as my parents gave to the church because you have a more demanding job. Life demands so much more, and so we notice our children less, you know. And I think we really need to be in the spaces where our children are. We need to notice them. We need to notice when they change. We need to say, how's your mental health today? Ours

school today? It was it stressful? You need to have somebody else who can say that to them. I notice that you weren't so talked to him in class today. Is there anything that I can can do to help? Because you know that they're not going to have time to do that in school,

you know. And let's make our church is safe places. The other day, you know, I've been looking after myself, maybe a bit too much, and I wasn't as active in church as I should have been, you know, and I recently decided to get involved in the Path our Finders. I'm not a part finder myself, but I showed up and I was around, and you know, my daughter came home as because she is, and she said, Mom, thank you so much for being at part Finders

today, you know. And my daughter is fifteen. And sometimes we think our kids, they look so cool, they act so cool, they act like they don't want you around. Don't believe a word of it. Our kids want us around because they are trying to navigate the world and it's very anxiety provoking. And unless we can notice the shifts that happen with them, we won't be able to be there when the anxiety HiT's. So that's what

I would say, Just let's be there for our kids. Let's create create spaces where they feel held, where they feel noticed, and they feel that they can can come and be open about how they're feeling. Had you any thoughts on that as well? I have a People always ask me why do I I work two jobs so that my wife can stay home. My wife has been home since my children been born, and it's been an absolutely wonderful thing, because what you just said is everything my wife does when they get

through the door. How are you doing, how was your day? What's wrong? You're not looking right? Yeah, your your demeanors off, Let's talk and then she'll we relate to me. So then the problem was that she was related to me. But then I'm getting home and I'm tired, so I can't. I don't. I don't have the energy to now talk to my children. So I remedy that by I take them to school in

the morning. And while we're driving to school in the morning is a ten minute fifteen minute drive some days, depending on traffic, I'm able to talk and I'm able to talk about what they talk to mother last night in the morning, and then you know, and I've noticed, like my daughter after we talk, sheould text me when she gets out and she goes inside and like, I'm thinking that she's not listening, and then she'd getting in school and the next thing she takes me love your dad, have a great day

dad, you know, and I'm like, okay, I'm reaching her. So I it's just literal. You just have to try to just try to navigate, just do little things to try to like to reach your kids.

And that's just me personally. So I'm not saying it's gonna work for everybody, but that when you were just talking about that, it just brought back for me personally that because I'm like, wow, like you know, and I think we just we really like the kids are under such a u I always advocate for the kids because the kids are under such a immense amount of pressure right now. And as Vined have said, growing up, I grew up in Ephesus in New York. As big as that church was, everybody

was auntie uncle. Everybody knew each other. We all we was a big family for such a big church. We had like over two thousand members, but it was like two thousand and family members. We were so everybody knew each other almost a little security and right, And it feels like now you don't feel secure, Like now I don't know if I will leave my kids in church by themselves. No, I mean, you know, it just

it's just so the world has changed. Like before I could be eight and my mother will leave me and go across the street and leave me in church, and she wouldn't even think twice because she knows she has other people watching me. Yeah, but we don't have that. The mentality has changed now as we're getting old and the society and so yeah, yeah, that would

our only point. Yeah, I mean following on from that, I guess that that principle is the same in terms if you know, checking on your friends is what you about aware about ourselves, We'll say aware of other people. And really I want to say checking on your friends and being aware it's really see what's going to be helpful for them. You know, if we know our friends and we're making streets have strong connections, you'll hopefully try to step in where they need it, you know, not just saying oh,

you know, you know God is good and I'll pray for you. Whilst that's great, it might be more practical help. It may be something you know, they need you to do something. You may do you need them, They would want you to do something for them or help them with something. So when I'm saying checking it going a little bit deeper really kind of with as connections. So yeah, I guess there's been soad many takeaways from this, and as we're coming to the end of ours show, it's like

we could go on talking for hours. I'm sure, I guess um as one of the things going back to we talk about as Christians. We have the scriptures, and there's so many I mean, I did a Google search for Bible versus for anxiety. You know, everybody has mentioned that. You know, there are so many things that we can hold on to. A couple of my favorite ones John fourteen twenty seven saying, piece I leave with you, my piece I give for you. Not as the world gives,

do I give to you. Then he says, you know, let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Oh okay, yep, and then cast your because that's my favorite. That's one of my favorite. That's why. And he was saying you he'll never admit the rights to be moved. That's one of the psalms as well. So there are so many things, and I'm going to leave because we're coming to the end of

as show. It's been wonderful speaking to the letter and Dorothy and Anthea today sharing your insights, and there's so much more, and I think I say this every week. It's going to be a part two on all this. But again, you know we're starting the conversation. This is because we come to the end of Mental Health Awareness Week. Don't let this just be one week out of the fifty two weeks that we have. Every day we could be talking about this every day. People are struggling. There's lots of resources

out there in the church. Outside of the church, I mentioned the Mental Health Foundation. They've got lots of tips on their especially dealing with some of the areas that we mentioned about could be triggers. But we also have our own Cornerstone Counseling that CCS Counseling dot org dot uk UM that's Sarah Adventist Counseling as well. Um. There's a lot of support out there. Do reach

out wherever you can. Don't think you have to struggle alone. But I'm going to leave us with Philippines fort verse thirteen that I can do think all things through Christ, who strengthens Meum. Petro, I'm going to ask you to pray to close because I can. I know people wondering why we're laughing, but they think, um, and you know. And as I say that, you know, UM, yeah, God as God us we can

hold on to that. UM. So let's praying Petro about you. I'm heavny father, We want to thank you for this program that you allowed us to have. Hopefully with all the information and all the different aspects of anxiety and streuss that we talked about, the thing that we may have helped somebody that they may go and talk to somebody, if as just a stranger or

a family member or the past, or get help professionally. We asked Lord that you will continue to be of us as we start this week, keep anxiety and the stress in our lives to a minimum as best as possible, show us how we can navigate through life and that we can make things better for ourselves with your help. We love you, Lording me, thank you, Thank you for the ladies joining us today and to the events Read deal

London listeners. We asked to everybody will have a good week as we started for this Opparent your holy name, Amen Man, thank you so thank you. It's been talking point. It's been a wonderful show. Thank you Dorothy and for letter for joining us. We'll definitely get you back on again. It's been great speaking to you both and you know joining us with this conversation. And so everybody out there, I hope you will continue to be talking

about mental health raisingly aware of awareness of yourself and for other people. Paul, I'm going to leave you with a song called Awesome by Charles Jenkinson, Fellowships Chicago, just saying as that God has got our back. He is awesome, He's amazing. So it's good night from me, angela good night from Adel from good Night and Dorothy. Thank you. It's been Talking Point. Thank you so much. Do you join us? Do you listen to

Advantage Radio London tomorrow morning? Our live shows continue, so enjoy the rest of the evening and have a good week. It's been Talking Point. Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song