Men's Month Part 4

Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song Welco talking about with Ray Angela, discussing the hot topics and answering your questions. Saturday's five to seven pm on Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point. It's talking Point. It's talking Point, it's talking Point conversations. You need to have good afternoon everybody, and welcome to Talking Point. Sorry, a little bit of confusion here on my end um as. Last week the ladies had a universe unilateral decision to help

me lead out. Today I'm actually at the board so it's my first time being at the board side. Do apologize. I'm doing all right, all right, I want to thank everybody for joining us again. Zenia and Angela are with me today on zoom. Uh. This is why I missed Pastor Ray because you know, I had a had a had a you know, a brother actually we're gonna talk about today. I had a brotherhood in arms. Were Pastor Ray to help me out on these sort of things like this.

You know, he wouldn't let me be you know, thrown to the fire like this. I'm hearing me, but you know it's okay, so right, I don't know want you decided that because he would be I'm trying to help out my brother. Don't be trying to blow him up like that. Yeah. Yeah, normally be celebrating his birthday, but unfortunately we didn't

get to do that. This weekend, he celebrated his sixty year. I could say it because he put it all over Facebook, so I don't think he'll mind if I was to say the number, happy birthday pastor y Yes, yes, yes, huh birthdays this week? Yeah? Yeah, it was my Michael's birthday yesterday. I like that, Yeah Michael, Yeah, so Michael, this is his birthday. His nephews on the same day called Quinlan's today. Raise actually has somebody else who's I remember? I had two

birthdays, Yes you did, Yes, the fifteenth and twenty third. I have a fifteen and a thirteen year old now, yes, have mercy. It's a popular week. And then I got a couple other birthdays from nieces and cousins and nephews and yeah, so it's been a really busy month for myself. So how you doing, Angela? How was your week so far? Oh? How was your week? It was busy, busy, stressful, it was hot and I'm so thankful and blessed that we have having this

weather. But I suppose I love the weather. Sometimes when you're having to do lots of things and you're out about it was dame, I say it, Lord, please we give me. It was almost too hot. Now I've been rushing around, I'm trying to find something and I'm just like, I'm really hot now. So I'm sitting here with a fan on my face. Um. So the heat. Whilst it's lovely, I guess when you're busy working or if they're sitting in a cart, sometimes it's not so great.

Um. And again, oh definitely, I know you feel quickly, um, and I'm thankful again. You know, we have a sabbath for here at sabbath. But so it's been, it's been. It's been a bit of an up and down. We hand to say, Um, I'm looking forward to just chilling tomorrow. I think I think I probably have a to do list of one hundred and one things to do. I don't think I'm gonna do that much though, chill because the week's just going to start again and that's you know, back to the same or same old as it

were. So yeah, the weekend still fly by. I don't think, oh, definitely, it really is. I just think I feel like I'm blinking and it's gone, Oh my goodness. Real. Yeah, we're already in July, so even don't start how many days still Christmas? There I go there. You know, I have a friend that does that. She puts it off, she starts like early. Oh my god, friend she

does that. She puts it on really early. Late when it's like three hundred, two hundred days to Christmas, she started putting up on Facebook. And I'm like, really, that's a bit much, that's a yeah, that's a bit much. But she does do that. We're already looking. I'm like, come on, really, come on really, but yeah, I get it. Time's flying. Definitely, it's flying. So Zania, how was your week? Um? I was tempting to say, same old,

same all that, but I won't. I won't. Um My week was good, like like Angie, I'm enjoying the sunshine, but I could do with it being down and notch and just saying but you know, like, an't want to be a grateful either. I've been logging for some warmer weather, so we're grateful lights here and it's glorious, it's blue skies. It's just it's just it's fantastic. So for all those, as you would say, pull Pedro, some worshippers out there, you know they're they're lapping

it up and enjoying it. Um. But yeah, just kind of work everything else. Jahim finished his GCSS, so you know, congrats to him and everyone else, all the young people who have sort of put their pens down and and now moving into summer mode. I just wish them all well. Exam results I think come out in August, so prayers answered, everyone will have good results and be able to move on with where they want to move on for the next phase of their lives. So yeah, just doing

that and now planning birthdays and summer holidays and the rest of it. But God is going on. I'm grateful. Yeah, I can see where you come up with that. My son, he's fifteen, so he's got one more year and he's already stressing. We wanted to move, but he was like, please, can we not move because he didn't want to move to a new school with one year and he's like, I'm used to the school. Even I had issues at the school in the beginning I would rather stay

because he's comfortable. So now we have to stay one more year before we can move because of him. But I love him, so it's you know, I'm good. I do that for my son. But I told him after that we out because everybody else is like, we need to go, but he's the only one that's holding his back. But I agree with that. I mean, no, no point disrupting him. And also different schools operate differently, so yeah, to plug him out one and plug him into

another. Yeah, I thought about it because at first I was like, they don't make a difference. They teach the saying that not really differences between the school. Yeah, but it's just more about him just being in a different environment and he's not. He's not one that takes different environments that easily. He takes a minute to adjust. So for his benefit, you know, because he told me yesterday he's trying to get all nines. I don't even know what that means. It's good, it's all good. I don't

know what that means. I'll be honest, I have to ask, and he says, he said, he said, what you just said, it's good, And I'm like, okay, cool, I no, I don't know the new system, but I think it's somewhere around A. Plus. He's trying, he's trying to slash it, so we're gonna see how he do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, how was your week? My week was was like, um, Angelas said, I've been driving in this heat and it's absolutely scorching. I actually don't like the sun. Yeah I've said

that before, having that I don't like the sun. I don't because I feel like the sun just drained you. Um, end of the evening, You're just so drained you can hardly function. And I prefer like when it was raining. I was enjoying it, you know, I was. I was really enjoying it. People was like, why are you smiling his raining? I'm like, because it's cool cool. Yeah, but then the humidity kicks in, said, makes it even hotter, So you know, give

a take um bout us for that. Yeah, driving around in the heat. I'm just trying to stay hydrated and um. But I had a good week. Did a couple of things and then oh, as I said, a couple of birthdays, so I had though, Um, we didn't really do birthday parties. We kind of just um let them pick a meal, they pick where they want to eat them, and then we just do that. Have a cake. No, Sky, Sky was first, and then Junior was was second. Yeah, happy birthday, Sky, and then my

you met Johnny. Johannes's Monday, so after three in June, Johannes's Monday, So Joe's Monday, so he's the twenty six goes twenty six on the twenty six expensive month. No, then my oldest goes twenty ninth on the twenty ninth in August, and then my nine year old goes nine July eighteenth, so three months of five kids. Yeah, I was. I was a gluten and for punishment, so you know, it is what it is.

But enough about my pain and suffering. You know, it was Father's Day last week and we were saying, because obviously have the birthdays everything else, did they do anything? They made me breakfast? Oh cool, they made me breakfast. I woke up to breakfast, not in bed, but I woke up to breakfast. Yeah, and they they made it. They went they told my mother, my mother, they told my wife to sit down, and they actually went into the kitchen and made it. They made

me some eggs, hash browns. Bacon, turkey bacon. Let me say that. Turkey bacon, folks, turkey bacon, and um what else I had? Yeah, and and they and some grapes and so they made that and I had that for um for breakfast. So yeah, and then after that we just chilled. I'm not a picky I'm not a real fussy person when it comes to like holidays and doing things like that. I've just done a significance of it. But I was. I was happy with that,

and they just spent the day. Actually, I wasn't feeling good because I was supposed to go out, but um, we didn't. We didn't go out. So I know you are kind of saying, oh, you know, it's kind of shadow. But everything else so recognized, as she said, not just recognizing you for that one day. You know, father's father figures. I just think we should. We should. We should appreciate fathers every day, just like we should appreciate mothers every day. Everybody, everybody

is all. It's an all day, every day thing, every minute because we all have a part in our lives that we have to play. We all have different aspects that we have to do, and it's a struggle that we were working every We work every day, just like marriage or just like parenting. We're working every day. Is something new every day, so we got to work and get that and just you know, we're learning something new

every day. It's just a consistent and because you know, you know, yeah, it's just listen, a bit of appreciation goes a mighty long way. And just to thank you, I love you. You know, I'm grateful for what you do. Doesn't take by the minute, but it can make such a difference. So every day, why not. Definitely, I'm glad you said that, but I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say, because then we'll get in trouble. Oh not not with you, not

with you, with my wife. Because my wife said something to me yesterday that blew my mind and I was like, really, well, I'm not gonna blow out like that. You would if I told her what she said, you'd be like, she didn't say that, Did she really say that? You know whatever? But I'm gonna leave it at that side, folks. Yeah, she come over here and beat me up. Tell you.

So we're going to go to a break and then when we come back, we're going to be joined by Stephen Right, Yep, we're gonna talk about yes, because this week we are come to the ends of our men's mom this we have been celebrating and recognizing the men in our well men in our lives, but of men in general, a little bit about men's health and mental health. That's what we do, fathers, and today we're looking at

brotherhood and the idea of kind of what that made mean. You know, we send you and I and I'm sure many women are often talking about you know, men and they're connecting and how they interact with each other. So I'd like to think there is a brotherhood of men out there, whether it's your friends, your family and spud brothers, your brothers can be christ within the church and community. But is that really happening? So many people I talked to recently are just like, what, you know, what do our

men do? We have a men's ministry team within our church, but sometimes the case I may not know what's happening because it's not necessarily targeted me, But I guess they want to know what's happening. But we want to know about men's connections and how they connect with each other. So yeah, that's what we're going to be discussing and we have got we will have two brothers on guests are guesting us today mentioned one Stephen and brother Andrew, but we'll

meet them. Asked the break, So yeah, if we want to know what brother and I was asking the question, how are you your brother's keeper? Because we say that so you know, and as Christians sometimes that's what we sometimes are apt to doing. So yeah, we want to look at that. And as usual, if we want we want to hear from you,

we want you to kind of join this conversation as well. So I'm going to hand over to send you because I connect, I can never remember if you want to join the conversation or sending your comments, Yeah, sending your comments to do You can text us to triple A at a triple two eight or and write hope and then your message. Or you can also contact us as a studio at a Inventors Radio London studio at Inventors Radio that London. And I'm tasking a question chin out there before we break, and maybe

our listeners and hopefully our listeners not maybe hopefully our listeners can respond. The question is why is there a reluctance for men to seek support again. Yeah, d I see a change, and I'm gonna ask obviously our guest panelists to talk on that. I'm Petro. I'm sure you're going to chime in as definitely. The song is Kirk Franklin nine one. Hello. Hey, it's meet Kirk. I need to speak to Bishop sure, hold on, Hello, Hey, I got some stuff I need to talk to you about.

Lately, Pastor. I've been having all these crazy kind of dreams. It's hard to sleep, I can't eat, scary enough. I know what you mean. I mean, ever since that Tuesday, seemed like life is getting real strained, shot shooting, anthrax, terrorist attacks, and I ain't even trying to get on a plane. I feel it. And you know when I try to pray that his voice tell him it. God's not real, you know, let's just see him a man. Yeah, but you ain't feeling me, no, son, I know just how you feel.

See, just because I preach and teach, don't let or don't get scared sometimes you know whatever, but you t d Jake, But then I don't make mistake. Wealth and little teams on my mind when you're smiling is gone. Yeah, but I feel full your heart is giving. I will see what you don't know my mind. I'm so sick and tired of all just got laid off and then pop it off the rent stud So tell me what I gotta get. We'll see. Trials come to make you, storms won't

last. How can I trust God and all this method or See? That's a reason for a song. See wherever you're go, that's one thing you got to know. God's right that by your side. So thank you for calling. It's always good to hear from you. Yeah, but I gotta go now waiting. I have another call online too, but I ain't through. Say. I'm sick and tired of all these trucks folk talking about stuff ain't as bad as the scenes. See y'all don't feel my pain. I

don't hear bain. I don't say how you want to cover of Time magazines. See, but you're looking at it now and you don't know how I struggled and what I've been through. Yeah, whatever, Now you cross the line. I'm just speaking my mouth, okay, So let me speak mine too. I've had some mountains, I've seen some ballas. I've even had to cry sometime back when I lost my mother or your mother and my mother. I'm sorry, No, son is fine. See life is full of

ups and bounds, but gods hit the storm woe last month. How'd you make it through? Boy? I thought you knew it was mother telling stry when smiles, he'll go alone. Although your heartest heaven gone to shiver, y'all don't feel mine And I'm getting very thick and tired of all the just got laid off in the top of off the rent. Dude, go tell me that you'll what I gotta get now, tell your trials come to me and those those storms. How can I prove God in the mids of all

that met? See that's a reason for this song. Wherever you go from you got to know. Course care to tell you, but thank you pastor anytime I think I can make it now, just tell me what I need to do. Just pray this prayer with me, say Father, fin forgiven forgetting he sorry, Please help me. I love you, I love and beat you, hold me, hold me jee my hearty, So please take

me controls right now, right now now. Now you ain't smile, and even when you feel so alone from your heartest heaven, even in the middle of all of ya, and when you're chicken tied of all the rains, remember that the rainbow last always. And in Christ Jesus, you got so much the game to see your trials come to make it, and the storms won't remember the temporary. See that's a reason for the song. Wherever you go, that something you've got to No Goddess still he told me to tell

me. Oh yeah, thank you. Welcome back to Talking Point on The Mentors Radio London. That was nine one one by Kurt Franklin. We want to thank you. We want to thank Stephen Fuller for joining us today as we talk about brotherhood and we just want to get some feedback from him for those that listened to us last week. He was actually the gentleman that was interviewed by Zenia and oh by Angela. It was Angela. Yeah, I'm sorry, I always get that mistaken, but yeah, he was interviewed by

Angelin. He has some really good points and it was a powerful testimony where he talked about about fatherhood and stuff and I really appreciated what he was talking about and some of the things that men don't want to talk about in today's society. I really did appreciate how I'm transparent. He was, So we'll pass it on to Stephen. Now would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah? So um as you got my

money steamer um for badam church. Let me ship you there even for a while though, But that and Angelo forgat Now outside of church and stuff, um in studying. So um, I'll take it back to twenty fourteen. So basically I went to Elkwood so I think to be a bustar and it was a great experience. Wow, welcome was able to finish as you can imagine, it was very hung down by it wasn't really it wasn't easy to do with. I think the experience opened up my eyes to a lot of

different things. So during that time in my life, I just saw my lap as just being acousta. That's all I saw. So when that failed, I just fall sot of what Now Basically, whilst I start there, I just saw some few things and I start to realize that there's more to minissue than being being a pastor, and that's where that inspiration to become a

counselor became more prominent. So every time I preach. I speak to individuals after sermons and I'll realize that there's a lot of issues that the members are facing, and my sermons that I preached, I didn't think it was justice

to some of the the charms and situations that people are going through. So inspire me to want to be more, to be more good to deal with those situations or start studying counseling, and so far I'm one level four on a couple of more gear to finish, but that's my main inspiration to be to be a counselor um As you can imagine the pressures of being a husband, being a farmer, it's quite heavy. So during that period I study gass engineering as well, just basically yeah, makes some money, provide and

just do my best to support my family. And it's just funny how things work because even though I was doing it, I finished and I tried to pursue it as it works out accordingly. But I've learned that sometimes these setbacks just kind of forget on an opportunity for me to see the bigger picture. And at the moment, I'm just focusing on my passions, aspirations, finishing my studies and just working from people trying to get through issues or comblems that

they're facing. So that's in a natural that's in the natural. You said you want to awkward and what year I was there? Twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen, sixteen? Okay, all right, that spy sometimes awkward. When I was younger. My father was from Elkwood and my mother's Bible worker, and that's where they met, actually was at Elkwood. They get married at the chapel and a lot. I can't remember when, but years ago.

All right, good, Yeah, it was a good place. Um, you said you also became a counselor, so do you are you just counseling for the youth or do you go just a counselor yeah, just general counselance from studying. Okay, haven't been figuring out my niche in terms of when will be young people family, So I'm just focusing on just your studying, finishing and get a qualification and seeing how good lead to that perspect Stephen, Can I put you on the spot a little bit and ask h why did

pastoring not work out? What what change your mind there or what set you in the next direction? Um, I'm honest, simple answers. Just financis simple. Okay, didn't work out. I didn't have the money too to clear and that's just simple. It's hard to do with what I think doing a setback, I think I showed me that there's a lot of different ways

to minister. Yeah, and you said it. I mean there's a saying, let's say a setback, so opportunities or setups regard to show up isn't met and where he has you is ultimately where he wants you to be. So of course I wish you are the very best with that. Thank you so much for sure. Ye Angela, Yeah, you just look like you're

busting so let me just go to you. I'm just thinking, you know, it's interesting how sometimes where when we think about ministry and what we're going to do, it's really interesting actually has sometimes we could not to have kind of a certain pathway because if that's the anything. So it's been interesting to hear the same actually realization that there is lots of different ways to minister and you know you're calling maybe in something very different. Now, as Stevens said,

I've not se him for a long time. He's a member of Allum Stephen from when he was very young to where he is now Steven. You know, so my experience of Stephen being a really accomplished speaker, you know, passionate on five for Christ everything else. So it's very interesting, you know, for you wanted to go that path then actually seeing something else because one of the things I like about you're very relatable and you'll have a really

good way of connecting with people. You know, you're a great speaker. Um, you know, have lots of you know, really good points and really good insights with the raceball. So I think you know, you shifting sort of truck as it were, to somewhere else. M. Yeah, you know, I'm sure God's gonna do a great thing. So. Um, So we're talking about brotherhood today, and I guess I've kind of wanted you know, you're obviously looking around with you kind of talked to siblings over

last kind of a couple of months really and look at those connections. Um, and I invited yourself and your brother and Andrew's about saying one of your other brothers there because you were one of many of the five brothers. Yeah strong mom? What what what which one? All? Right? Whatever? Are you oldest, middle number four, okay, and your number five year okay, So tell us a little bit about what it's like that I don't have a brother, so I don't know what this like type of brother.

I had friends who had brothers, and I always kind of wanted to just always wanted to an older brother. And if my friends had older brothers, I'm like, yeah, they're my older brother too. You know. Obviously male friends are like a class them as my kind of brothers. But what's it like having four brothers brother as well? Want this conversation with you, Josh oportunity story too much. It's a fun experience. I've enjoyed that.

I think pois anger. People are fascinated by the fact that I had four problems that they didn't believe it, And I think there's a sense of tract and a sense of privilege there. I've got three older brothers, and I've got Andrew results growing upable was proud to have them. It was very very interesting experience. As I said, there's a lot of things I can see growing up, these four five of us together in one room, and at

the surface time I appeared to be that's a bit crazy. But as brothers, there was no issue because it was just jokes, Huma, just stories. It was just fun every single day, so I didn't see it. I just anything, and they gative. I was always happy to know that I had older brothers too to be the form, especially even I was both school. I think when I went to school, of course they recognized me

as Anthony's brother or Genius or Sidon's brother. There's a level of respect that they even earned, if that makes sense, because then you my older brothers and I guess what we're saying for Andrews or when Andrew came to second year of school. I think Andrew tried to milk it a bit because Andrew's very very trump Winson, so the Holy kids would obviously try to get back at him, and He's like, no, I've got four older brothers and everyone

just needs to be lack at old Stephen. So I think it was interesting, it was fun. It was I can't look at anything they gave up by it for once. I just saw that as I've deminished to have three older brothers, and Andrew with me. The thing is that my three older brothers they're close in age, so I think it's just a year apart between the three and then you've got black four or five year gap unless meet and then Andrew. I mean Andrew obviously two years apart. So our jungle brothers.

We Reckon asked that there's brown trees, so they are older. They can do this, they can go places. And I think we understood that. But I think I yearned too to be a part of them, Like it was kind of annoying that there was this kind of divide. Aware you got the older three and then he got made in Aunty and it didn't cause any problems. But I think in my heart I just wanted to be more

involved and be more connected. And I think I'm subconsciously I'm going to be honest there As a brother, I kind of I went to counsel when I was younger, and my counselor asked me a qussure. She said to me, where do I fit in in terms of my brothers? How I describe my dynamics? And the pressure itself was very, very thought walking. I didn't know how to answer you. But when I was answering the question of what some emotion, but they didn't know I was there, if that makes

sense. And as a brother, I think I probas to know that I'm dear. I think Andrew will know that if when you think it's going on, they call me and vis a versa, that we've got each other's back. I know that I can call answer you and I'll just listen. Give me some advice, give me some wisdom, Simon and Junior, that we

all have a relationship where we're able to interact and able to speak. But at the same time, I've always yearned to be more of a what's the word presence, if that makes sense, because I think when they were older, I would just see, we're just seeing that the younger brother soul kind of just like brushed aside. So I think for me growing up, I just had this desire to want to be involved, and outside of that, I just think it was an amazing experience. I think that I've been privileged

to have. Yeah, so there any thing that's come out of that. You canot say any questions or I don't mind. So I had one quick question. So you said, oh, the three other brothers were older, and then it was like a four, four or five year gap and then you then you came on then your younger brother. So that because like you said there was ahead they left the house, So was it was it a point where you was almost like the head brother in a sense, like when

you was in the house like once it once the three brothers left. Will you like the almost consider like the older brother. Yeah, you can say that, yeah, because I think there's a lot of times and my parents went at home now were my older brothers. So just me and Andrew Andrew will off about it now, but just constant chaos that will be the older

brother and Andrew will be challenging about for if that makes sense. So if you find will be obviously not getting one, but in love, don't there be times when my mom will come home and she did door broken, that block shouted, you would just literally just not getting long. I'm a mom. She didn't know how to handle it. She don't know, but I don't. I don't person don't even liking. But I just think he was

being being probs just grown together. She's learning, And I think when we got older, we began to mature and actually four more strong ones together. A couple of weeks ago we had um Alison was it Alison or Dorothy? And she made a really good point to me because I have siblings, and they siblings fight. You guys, brothers are gonna fight. Sister brother and you guys are gonna fight. But she made a very good point which I've been trying, and that was, um, when the s when you guys

are fighting, don't don't intervene. Let you all figure it out long as no harm coming to you both, like you're not physically harming each other. And I mean, I know you said you broke some things, but like to just let you figure it out, because sometimes as parents we were just so quick to jump in and be like stop or don't do that. But and because I think you're gonna fight, because that's just a sibling thing,

that's a brother thing. And I think by you're doing that, like you said, I believe it would make you guys stronger in the in the long run. Because you don't remember those You probably sit back and laugh at some of those things that you you know, I remember when you broke this. Why did you break that? That was really dumb of you to break that, like you know, Like so, I think it just builds that bond as we're talking about with brotherhood. I just I'm just amazed it's your mom.

I mean, I would love to meet her. She's got to be a because yeah, because you have five boys. Oh my goodness, I've got water. And I tell you boys are easy though, right, maybe because I'm a guy to me that easy. My boys, My boys are, My boys are cool. There are times when the boys, you know, they're coming into their own tests junior. Now then you got the girls, who you know, they come into their own as well. So I

think it's different phases and girls come and different children. But you don't realize girls come sooner. Possibly, no, no, not possibly they come So I'm living proof. Okay, my thirteen year old thinks she always tells my fifteen year old I'm the boss of you. She you know, she thinks she's the oldest. So they come in faster. So it's a lot, you know. But Stephen, you were talking about the the the gap in

age between your oldest older brothers and yourself. Um, do you think that that impacts of the relationship so much so that you may not even recommend that or you think that there might be a if you're talking about brotherhood, do you think that there would be a difference in connecting between ages. Do do you think that like people or men need to be able similar same age to

be able to connect or you think you can bridge that that gap. I don't think age is really your issue of just saying it was just a natural thing to happen in a sense where because they were older, n actually they will have more privileges or possibility don't make sense. But I think when we got older, I was able to be intentional to actually form a relationship, if that makes sense heard the story. Actually, remember I was in my

first major relationship with a girl. These are going you can going okay, but then at the same time, full to myself, it's a really what I want to do basically, so you're thinking about it, just split enough basically. And I remember I was house and we were talking about the situation, and I was clearing my mind that I wanted to basically very up and you started crying, and we think for the first time, this was my first major relationship, and I kind of felt black saying for her an emotional

sort of thing. And I remember I called an older brother and Paul Junior, and I told him the situation. I don't think of this dame on life. He said to him, are you sure that you don't want to do this and said to him, I'm pretty sure. And he said to me, even though she's crying to even sometimes girls put on crooked outis when he said that started. My eyes literally were open for the first time. It's like I was very very naive. I didn't really think I was even

possible. Don't makes sense, And it was just sincere I'm not saying she wasn't, Branson said, but just the thought of the fact that I could be getting played here, I could be getting literally I find experience to be very very needed for me because older brothers, he's experienced more than I am, is going through the situations. So just that conversation. But the first

time I made me wiser. It's a laugh, and that situations kind of happened, but just being more careful and just trying to think and have an older brother in that respect, it was it was a blessed because they've obviously lived life. They're going through situations and problems and whoever it may be solved. Then being able to talk to me and give the advice, you know,

a second tim of experience. So oh that makes sense. Yeah, and you've you've exactly pointed out what what the benefits are of having different ages bond and and and the link together is that you can tap into the wisdom um of you know, the elders sort of stake and that's yeah, m crocodile ty is you do it all the time. Oh you have. It's definitely a possible, not even a possibility, not even a possibility more than a fist angeles. You know, you know, I don't you know You're

more than crocodile tears. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's just my opinion the things that you kind of you know, what you've been able to have, especially having older brothers, Um, what have been the key soup? It's qualities or things that you have gleaned or learned from your brothers. And you know, as we said that the age is maybe not necessarily made a

difference. It's just different insights into different areas, different things. But would have been some of the key things that you said, right, Okay, because I have four brothers, I've specifically things because I guess what I'm think going to go on too is how does that equate to otherhood in general? And men connected with men, other men and love life. Yeah, So I think I've been able to pick the positive and LEGI if that makes sense.

For example, all the brothers still be the first to admit that give me some mistakes, but they've been gone bore enough to allow me into over mistakes and allow me to to listen. We have the open a short in certain areas, so I'm able to to see their own example, I thought, can happen if you decail things or if you all a certain both, if that needs sense. So I've been able to get an insight just based

on urbable communication, just being honest, being open. She's talking about life, and you're talking about whether they've been the setbacks even the good things. So for example, anteing you for example, or major inspiration in terms of my decision to you to be um or past it in the first place. Just seeing his ambition, seeing his determination um a lot wasn't easy for able to to do at that time as well. But I'm just seeing him do it just gave me a sentive if you can do it, then of course

I mean it'll do the same. So I've just been able to take the kid in the bad or not see the bad as anything bad, but to see it as I listen, see it as something that's happened, but just know fully and be able to yeah, try and see your own life, I think as I'm probably I think one of the most earning things for me, if I've been honestly, it's it's being vulnerable, just being honest about

your feelings and about what hasn't gone right and the misstates and stuff. To be able to get to that point, I think it's very very difficult because if if it's going to work effectively and any to be able to present myself was very very vulnerable, and it's honest. This is why I am. This is in my mind, is this is where I'm struggling. And I think that as a brother there needs to be a level of openness and all that there's a level of fear and all that men naturally have a fair to

to open up to delve. I think we have this in the desire to just get things done, to just meet one to just take our stops up and just keep it moving, if that makes sense. But in terms of being a brotherated, I think even relation to being a farmer, I'm learning that I can't be a father while to support uple farms, if that makes sense covers. I just think it's very, very difficult sometimes and the moments that I find hard, it would be good for me to connect with Farcus.

You're home for the same thing, which totaly makes sense because it's if I'm by myself, it means that I'm just having this manself. You know what, it's hard work. Then you just keep on cracking on and I can do that. But internally things were just going up and it will come out in different ways. So I think for me in terms of being a brother and just brought it. In general, I think one of the key components is the willingness to be honest and show yourself and let yourself be seen.

And even though I'm trying to be that person, there's times when they're still find it difficult because sometimes it's just hard to present yourself as naked and raw. This is your young, this is why young, this is what I'm going through, this is my shovels. It's not easy, but someone's gonna be willing to to make the first step, and yeah, just be

open and just show yourself and then yourself be seen. That's gonna be my my one of my thoughts because, like we said, you had the interview last week, you was really talking about that how you had you had to find yourself and you had to let God lead you. And I for me personally, I know, like I believe in just being transparent and being truthful and just putting it out there, even when you know it may hurt somebody. Um do you But I find sometimes because the society or the world it's

not ready for men to be so forthcoming? Do you find it sometimes to be difficult when your dealings with your brothers or with anybody in your family and that or in your brotherhood, in your in your in your social network, like because like they know you, but it still doesn't mean that they accept it. Sometimes like they still think you maybe maybe a little extra or maybe you're you know you can you can pull back a little bit as an even

though about more problems and to a degree you have a little relationship. I know that it could be more. And I know that you don't believe know the full extent as to when my life is and I think it is hard. It's hard to given to my own brothers two hundreds an exceptional books.

I think naturally where closer in age and we've always been again us so be easy for me to see to and you listen having a bad day to day or this has got long today, But in general, yeah, it's definitely you hard to open up and be honest to the bar in reality a way you are. I think for me as a person, very very calm, temperate minutes. So I've got four brothers. As you get suffer, then

all of us have different dynamics. And I'm also if you've been to church before and there's a discussion for a y and you've got the deacon with the mind going on around to see anybody's got a point to share. Seeing my house there nod can going around to make sure that point. So being hurt that makes sense. Lets unless you have that mindset to just get in there, you won't really get hurt. And I wasn't a person to basically get in there. I was the person that would wait to put the silence,

But then the silence will come, someone else will get the first. There would just be a cycle. So for a long time I always had this mandset where I didn't before I had a voice, I didn't really feel like I had I don't know an opportunity to to speak or to share, and I think subconsciously definitely didn't impact how I treated my RELATIONSHIPIP of the men. But I didn't really feel like I had an opinion or I had like a I had thinks to say, and as felt like I was invisible, so

to speak. I didn't really feel like I didn't feel the contribute, if that makes sense. Because I've got an older obviously, I've been able to work on some things or to counsel and just work on myself and become aware of certain stuff, which is kid. But for a long time about strugle with that, A struggle with believing that what I've got says I'm poor. I didn't always believe that, which is why from Handela might Tony, she might say, you're on the surface, Steven a pass to be quiet person.

That label literally gets from around all the time. Stephen Squire, Stephens this and certain extent that may be true. Well, deep down I've got a lot of things to say. Does that makes sense? Just that I wasn't given an opportunity to really delve an express and be myself. So I struggled that a lot. Because things are just building up, and I didn't know how to communicate or to express what's going from soul. Definitely hard me personal. For me, a person that's quiet is not a bad thing.

I mean, I know you're talking about in the sense of you wasn't allowed, but also being quiet, I find people are quiet went out. When you're quiet, you're more observant. Yeah yeah, and so you're paying more attention. And then you only you speak, you get more get you're hurt better because when you speak, then people listen because they you know, you

don't always like somebody's just always talking. You kind of you kind of tune them out after a while if they just keep talking and talking and talking and talking, you know, but when they when they quiet, but they speak, when they the impact is much better. It's much stronger, it's much more accepted when you know. So I think quiet it is not that bad of a thing. It's just how you utilize it. But I understand what we was talking about, Like you was you felt like you wasn't able to

express the way you wanted to sometimes, so you just express it. I never heard of that way before. I make sense. I just sweet being quiet something negative? Oh no, see to me. To me, I always thought I was thought it was positive. See, that's that's what I'm saying as motherhood as men, you know, I honestly I always thought because I'm quiet, I'm actually I like to talk, but I'm quiet. But I observe, so I'm always white. I could I'm watching things unravel.

Growing up in the church, and I've been to many church has been the big church of small churches, and I guess I just got that from my mom and my father, just always observing and just watching other folks. And then you can kind of not saying I'm always right, because I'm not perfect, so I'm not always right, but you could just kind of get a feel like okay, you know, yeah, you know, you could get that feel of each person. So I think quiet is a good thing.

I would never think of it. I would. I would never want you to think of it as being negative. Look at it as a positive, because because that's you know. And interestingly, I think that maybe something I would say from an observation kind of seeing your brothers and the dynamics and drinking kind of a ministry, I think actually saying it's different, maybe you have

different expectations of people. But if you're perceptionally you are very quiet, I think then when you speak and incredibly powerful, I think that's as impactful of others who maybe more you know, upbeat or I'm gonna say not your dynamics. It's not a question of that. Maybe I can't get the right way to describe that. But actually you have such deep insight that you're just like

whoa okay, okay, which I think makes you incredibly relatable. Like I said before, So it's an interesting yeah, because actually, as ed you's saying that, I was thinking, yeah, that's so true, that's so true. But again, but you know what's really what was really nice there? That's and again this is about connection. It's about how you interact with each other. It's a support and actually can give different insights people, the

lives of other men and stuff. But sometimes a point on as you were saying, in terms of with your brothers, and maybe this is sometimes you know it talked about being vulnerable and sometimes a fear of being open and honest. Do you think there's a level of competition as it were, and maybe within you know, you've got four brothers and more buying you for a place as it were, and maybe doing similar things with different things, and as much as it may work with each other, for instance, you may want

to do different things. And do you think that's maybe an issue that men symptoms have because there is that competitive nature to be something, to be heard, seen, et cetera, which might stop people from the well, that's that's a good question. I think you'll say that two big yeah. I think. I think as men, there's natural don't no comparison to that work, but sometimes we comparisons to other men that make sense. We want to

be the best on what we do. So if someone's wants to level, there's that natural desire to rise and to want to be beaver, which in a healthy way is good. But if done in a way which compromises key want your core, that's a different situation that makes sense. Like for example, Andrew's very very dynamic, especially in the younger days, like Firetrucker just fifth gear. Even when he speaks, it's just like it's in fifth gear.

I remember remember watching him in a sermon one time, and I remember the congregation that were just like into the sermon and stuff like that, and for the first time I thought to myself, maybe I've got a change my style and change change my my approaches. That makes sense, and remember my next sermon, try to do that. I tried to do my best invitation of how Andrew speaks and if I'm honesty, it was a very, very fringeriest thing I've ever done because I really looked at a moment. Now,

I can only be true to myself. I can only be through I am. But I needed the experience to learn that. I needed to go through that to be but to see, you know what, Steven likeybody's got there. They think everybody's got there their gift, their their style, their different gifts and abilities and so ab so just embrace pre war. I don't try to be anybody else, you know what I mean? So thing for me as a man, I think it's naturally sometimes because you're exposed to certain things,

to society, you see certain things. But I think I'm learning even now it's a speak. I just got to embrace who I am and be comfortable in that and to be okay with it and accept it. Like I know a lot of times I might want people to accept who I am, which is good, But I think first of all, I need to accept myself and accept pym with my gifts and own what I'm able to do. And for a long time I didn't really believe in myself, you know what I mean. So I think for me, yeah, I think it's play

a part one hundred percent. Think for me, I just had to learn to Rebattratsky. Yeah, just be who I am. And I think I'm being Joi Young. That's the best that can be. I'm gonna being someone else. It's just like it's just a shame, shame old, just like everybody else, don't I answer your question? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah it does. And you know it's a good example that you give. Actually, and you know, I think more time you take to find out who you are and you know, working too, you are and you can

be all the better. Um, I guess it's fun. We're gonna go for We're gonna go for a music break. I guess what would you how would you encourage other men to be able to do that? Um, we'll do that? Well, okay, okay, how that thought? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna go to a break. Hold that thought, We're gonna go to a break and they will come back. You just saying this Blessed

Me by Maverick Ciriy Maddick's Maverick City Music featuring Kurt Franklin. To bless Me, Sleep, bless me, bless me got to me and this baby defeat the years I mean to read. Bless me, bless me not just swummy, But so everyone around me can't have everything they knowld the school, let all the sous thats me gotta have everything they need to get. Bless me, bless me out this game, defeat the years I need to read.

Don't bless me, bless me, gonna just swumming, But so everyone around me can't have everything that hold the food, that all the soosters, you can't get up everything call me alun the conversationine alone my enemy, swell favor favor, gona just sleep. But so everyone around me can't have everything that all the school, that all he sosts met, every God, allow the conversation shine the enemy favors God, that your sunny, but so every water

we can't have everything. And who this counts me this week? Come snee me got that just sunny, But so it ever be find around me can't and all the storming all hoss. We got him again, and all the sto all the hoss, the allosters men rush you and out of the band the feet. We criticized her, mistaken me because by the promise keeping, I've got it to ricord. I should live in my did because your home was by my side. I didn't tell you he's a friend of mine.

Lift them up and lift them up, take it up, take it off. Can't get up, take it off. He can't get up, take it up. Yeah, telling him I never again, he's never about man. Every child ever WI black. When I went black, w black women man wop we black women were black women. Manly happen. We gotta have that wed. We got har down, we got hampered down. We can't everything were dad. We got the happer, red hammering a red happeras that's see, bless me, bless me out to read, lets me less meet

me must away. So we're back at talking point with myself, Pajo, Angela and Zenia, and I guess speaker Steven's follow We've been talking to our brotherhood and Zenia had a question. So I'm my thought to Zenia so she can ask the question that she actually asked at the beginning of the program.

I asked it at the top of the program and I'm asking it again because our listeners quiet wanting to hear from your studio at Adventist Radio dot London or text eight triple to eight hope, leave a space and then your answer, perhaps why is there a reluctance for men to seek support? And we've touched on it during the interview that we're having in the conversation we're having with Steven, So thank you so much for sharing, Stephen and being so transparent and

honest. But one of the things that comes to mind is you mentioned competition and the fact that you know sometimes men aren't willing to talk because then it's seen as they're not good enough, or because they're competing and trying to better, to be better than the other man. Then there's no there's no camaraderie, there's no coming together. Um. But we've spoken about it time and time again about the roles in society and how our men are often told to

man up, boys don't cry. Emotions are reserved for women and whims, so our men don't often speak because of that, and um, not only do they not cry, but yes, they don't they don't speak. And for me, I think brotherhood is important because it allows you you spoke about that, Stephen, the fact that you had your brothers and particular Andrew who was closest to you, that you felt you could open up to, and that in itself being such a blessing because so many men don't feel that they

can be honest and open with anyone. And that's so so important. And you know that's I've got I've got Pedrol laughing in the background. I'm not sure what he wants to say, but he's basting to say something, and

so hold on, Pedro, not quite done yet. And the fact that sometimes men and hopefully we'll get to that as well as as we talk about the significance of Christian brotherhood, but it's the ability for our men to find proper support, because often they find support in the wrong things, whether it's sex or drugs or alcohol or or so many other false support systems that then

perpetuates the problem. So yes, we see the significance of having brotherhood, and maybe in particular Christian brotherhood, because it provides that safe space for men to be open. You know, competition aside weakness, it's not seen as weakness. It's seen as strength to be able to open up and to be honest and to be transparent and to say, you know what, I'm struggling

with something. And Steve, when you mentioned struggling with parenting and how it was so important for you to find other men who are fathers to tap into and speak with and understand the dynamics of it, and how much difference it made for you in that journey. So yeah, the question is being sent out to those of our listeners who want to chime in, if they've thought of something different to what I have said, or if they want to echo that. Why do our men fed you're coming to you're having I mean,

why is there reluctance for our men to speak? And Pedro's gonna do you mind if I go first? This is something that we have been debating since I met them, and I tried to explain to them it's just like me trying to figure out a woman and have emotions. And like you said, and I don't mean they're in a bad way, but met over the years and it's worse now. Actually, it's really worse now because now men are being the mess. What's the words um mask in Italy is not something that

is even taught anymore, has totally been taken away. But it's hard for men to be truthful because when and I'm gonna talk from experience with my wife, if I say if in the beginning of my marriage, when I say something to her, she would just dismiss it. She would say, I'm you're in your feelings. Oh you you know, you're just you know. So you hear that. As a men, you hear that, just like

Stephen was saying how he took it as a negative. We had it as a positive, but he took it as a negative of like where he is being where he's silent, but he's not being listened to. Sometimes, you know, as a man, as a male, we want just to be heard. We want to be just taken seriously. If I say something to my wife now and she doesn't listen to me, I said, I did tell you that, what's going to happen? We just want we just want to be heard. And then, you know, because it seems like whenever

we say something, we don't know what we're talking about. Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. And so it's hard for men to open up. When we try to open up, nobody listens. And then then but there's just the problem. So we open up, we're not heard, and then because we're trying to get up point across, we then come aggressive. So then we get tagged as being overly agre or we get tagged as being m rude or too blunt, and when not being that way, we

just want to get out. We just want to get our point across. So yeah, it's gonna come out blunt sometimes because we've probably been saying that point for five minutes or five times and nobody's been listening. So then the sixth time it just comes out all of a sudden, you're hear it,

but you hear it in a sense of in a negative way. So I just think, like from from I think for myself, like being as I'm older though I'm about to be fifty, I have to learn that I just have I just have to drown out that people are not always going to listen. And to what Stephen was saying about um always, the way I look at it in my life is that God, as long as God is happy with my life, I really don't care what other people think of me.

And that's just me. I've gotten to that point where I just don't care. You know. They say as you get older, you get more blunt, and that's just I feel. I just don't care. If you don't like me, you don't like me, because it's nothing I'm gonna do it's going to change that. Nothing I say do is gonna make that difference. I think men just have to understand that that no matter what is. You know, they say you do one hundred things right, but the one thing

you do wrong that's everybody remembers. So you can't control that. So you just have to just be who you are, be truthful, as Steven said, be truthful to yourself, know who you are, and be honest with

yourself. If you can't be honest with yourself, you cannot be honest with nobody else because if you can't forgive yourself, if you can't be honest with yourself, you're not gonna be good to anybody else because you're just gonna always be um talking or complaining or whining about something and saying I just said it. But I mean in the sense of like you know, we we don't we just want to be able to be heard. I ask before Stephen,

you can go to that or whether you agree or disagree. But your example there was talking to your wife and her probably not listening. We're not paying enough attention to it. I guess that's the only person I talk to that's my best friend, because the dynamics today is is that the same if you should talk man to man. I feel that there is there is a sense there of not being heard, not being listened to amongst brothers or is that

what brothers? You're right? So I've tried talking to other brothers, but I don't always get I find sometimes when I talk to other brothers, I don't know if Steven just happens to you. I find sometimes when I talk to other brothers, sometimes I must feel like I scare them, like I can see fear in their face because I'm just too blunt because I don't and

I have to try to ease back. So I try to talk to them, and they're just like, oh, he's too intense, Oh he's too like, you know, aggressive, So they kind of ease back off of me, and then they don't kind of talk to me anymore. You understand, like they kind of like, uh, yeah, you know, yeah, you stay over there, I stay over here you And then I think sometimes brothers don't want to hear the truth. Okay, because that was you, see you led me to that. I'm saying you're too blunt or too

honest because it's I don't know, I'm the same being blunt. I think ye black Stephen, he's the guy. Because that's the challenge, isn't it. Because we're talking about how man can support each other. If you can't, I don't know, and I don't know. I don't know if I can't. If I can't be true to my brother, who else can I be true to? See, this is the problem. We don't want to hear the truth. We don't want people to tell us what we need to

hear, not what we want to hear. But be careful though, because that's why I'm trying to draw that line. There is no line being to me being aggressive. It's not necessarily being truthful. No, you're right that there is a there's a difference between the two, Okay, And if if if you're saying men have pulled back because they thought you were too blunt, I eat, in my mind aggressive, then it's not necessarily that it's what you've said. It's probably how you said it if I understand what you and

I understand and I understand what you're saying. But see, the thing is, I'm not I'm not gonna sing it. I'm not gonna sing it. I'm not gonna sing it. I'm gonna just bluntly come out and say, like it was all my mind. I'm just going to say it. And this is the thing I always tell people, like because I've had people coming, I've had guys come and talk to me and they've asked me a question and then say, man, why do you respond that way? And I

say, well, you know me for these many years. You know that's how I am. And I know I need. I know I can change and be a little bit more because I actually have to learn that. Moving here to the UK, I had to learn to be more what's the word, not withdrawing. I just have to be more back pulled back a little bit. Because when my first job I got fired from because the woman said I was too aggressive because I would just say, get off your butts,

go do the work and then sit back down. So they didn't like that. The UK folks don't like me saying it in that tone, so I had to change my tone. So it's more like, if you don't mind, could you please get up and go do your job and then you can go back and sit, you know. So I had to learn. But it still doesn't mean that Sometimes you just you just have to say it because the truth. I would rather somebody tell me the truth than to beat around

the bush and tell me a life. But you're talking about if you think about men's men's qualities and what they can be like, is that always is that necessarily going to be the best thing. I want to bring in Andrew, Andrew Stephen to see whether what you think of that, because yeah,

that's why I want. I want his opinion. But if you kind of got other very strong characters or people feel like we shout out the more happy, would you just end up knocking heads or how Yeah, because at the end of the day, sometimes women are very good at talking, because you could say that sometimes empathetic listening and me that treat are any more sense it too, things that were happening from generalizing made the stereotype PA, So how

can we kind of get around that OVERTI is sticking on that. It was in Marcami, and I think that's definitely right. I think there's a level of writing what both said. But I think for me and this is what I found person So I'm more inclined to speak to a woman than a month you know, come out what I'm feeling in this aut because I know that they're gonna have more of a listening or understanding where you're looking at the situation,

if that makes sense. So in my mind, I've made the intention with effort though, to just speak to them, to open up up out of things to other guys, because I think it's important. As you mentioned, Angel, there's there are some characters out there and it's not it's not a bad thing. Um, they're very dumbinant, so when you're being dominating a conversation, you're not able to basically listen to what someone saying, if

that makes sense. So it please the purpose or if I'm saying it's the situation, I think the way that thinks very simply, if I'm sharing myself, it's just a man sort of just hearing me out and allow me to land and allow me to speak what you gotta saying. Response is always going to be bad. That it's fine because everybody's got an opinion about it, whatever may be. The conversation has to be at a point where they're to speaking, they know that they're being listening to you, and they know that

it's not just going to be like a discussion or back and forth. Spot be a thing where someone's speaking but the apple person is actually trying to listen and understand. If that I understand, it's not dead. Then for me the first thing, that's where I shot down as the first I feel like I'm not being on the spl as a man I call asshole that I just literally got hold because the man I'm thinking, I'm gonna talk and express and

open up. If when I say, you know what I'm saying, I know they get hearing me, but you know, really listening to what I'm really saying some kind of defeat them. But I think for me, I think Pedrol said a very good um I fact to basically train my mind not to see everybody the same way, if that makes sense. It's a long time. I used to basically feel like I had no confidence and speaking my emotions to another man. But but I just felt like, generally speaking,

men don't have the pan with mindset to listen. For example, on my counseling of course, ninety percent of the people on my course were obviously for emales. There was only another gun at this game, and I feel as men, there's a stortage of people getting into counseling, And for me, that's why I'm passionate about it, because I just feel like you don't have

to be a counsel. I just think learning counseling skills to be just learning how to listen, learning how to to not judge, learning how to basically I just navigate through someone's emotions. I think that's not even about being a counsel. It's just learning how to how to listen affectively, which is a skill that everybody should have, men and women. Europe maybe, But I think for me, on a personal note, I struggled with that because a

long time I had no confidence in speaking my my emotions. But then I'm gonna share a story which I feel cannot helps. So I've brought a very good friend of mine, very very good friend of mine, and I was going through one of them phases. Well, I was oh cold, I was going to asso, so I'm going to dream, I stee the phone ringing, and I wasn't answer, and why I love this person because this person you're gonna take it that personal. You'll just keep on harding me that.

So I just think it's to myself. Just let me me. So eventually, after like a week or so, he pulled me again and I think, you know what if I don't answer, I'm just gonna keep on calling me. So they were just answered the phone in the same we say and this this will ever change my life, you know, because he answer the phone and he said to me, Stephen, and I'll be honest with

you. I'm gonna very very honest man, see you when I'll pull your phone, Steve One, like there's a reason why I'm pulling you, and you don't know that I actually needs you, I need or real help. So you don't answer, Steven Man like it makes to be full but upset one because you don't know what I'm actually dealing because we need his friends that I know that I can speak to you, and then I can I can talk to you someone you like. It burns me because I ain't gonn no

one else to turn. And when he said that, yeah, I couldn't even could even say nothing. I just had to be hungbo and I have to say, you know what, I hear what you're saying. I understand that. And I appreciated his honesty to be honest about that, because if the rules were reversed, which it has been, if I'm calling someone else's phone and I'm getting air time, I'm gonna say the very passage because that we decent. I'm't gonna be. I'm thinking, I've pose you. You

have a assing. I'll let he be. But the one time that happened to me, I'm calling another good friend of mine and he's not asking his phone, and I said to myself, so this is what falls leg So in my mind now I'm thinking what do I do now? Because I was actually very very hurt about it because, as my friend said to me, I was calling him for a reason because I was going for a situation. They need someone to talk to you. I'm calling him. It's not answering

in the week. Ain't hurt him, like you know what, I need to say something. And the same approach that my film talking with me said, you know what, let me try that with him, said problem, and I'll be honest. You you know, I don't. I don't normally do this, but that's what we cannot transparent, Like you're a good friend of mine, and when I'm calling you like I need you because it's the sample calling in my life, ware like I need your advice so or wherever

it is. So you're not ask him, I'm not kid. It hurts. I'm gonna be keeping tom be honest. My eyes were kind of water because it felt weird too as a man, be so about the fact that we're making me feels I no, really have to be honest. It will be easier for me to say that to them to a guilt from honest, to talk about my feelings and whatever made me, But to say it to another guy you're asking your phone. I think a way about that. That

was hard for me to actually say to it. I had to say it, but if I didn't say it, the option would be a right. I've told you you do your thing, I do my thing. And I think it goes back to the brotherhet thing. It's a text that says that we're to love the prophet and the reason why I think I took that process because even though I took a person, I love my brother. So even though I felt hurt about it, I love that I have for him to

basically still reach out was more than the personal slap that I felt. Exactly makes sense. So I had to basically saying, you know what, broadly symbol like, I need you need to kind of ask your phone because I could be going through worlds or three. You man, you trying to say, so you need to kind of get onto that. So I think being honest, I think it sounds good and it sounds like a good idea, but being honest to me means you have to actually be honest about what your

filmer and to be and to be fair. When I was going through it, as I said it, I can literally feel the physical sensations in my body because I felt weird telling another guy listen, yeah, you know asking

your phone I was supposed going on. But I'm glad I did it though, because to me, that's a sound of growth, because once upon a time of the foot, you know what, you know, asking your phone, I'll do nothing like if you want to pull me, then cool, but I know what it is. But if I'm I'm trying to love the roblem with them, I'm trying to build a friendship and build like a level

of certain things. I need to be vulnerable and Shae watch sat on my hot and it's more easy to do, but I think in doing it there's a lot of benefits. So that's that's how I answer the question and answered that's that's my Fawn's that last whether you're saying really reminds me of I think

it's Proverbs. Summary Proverbs it says a friend loves at all times, but a brother is born for the time of adversity, because that's exactly that, even sometimes when you need people, but it's your blood brother or a brother. Yeah, difference AiZ with that. So yeah, so as you talk, as you talk about that, and thank you for sharing that you know and you know honestly and vulnerability. I think my questian when I was asking before, was how can we encourage people to do that? Because it's clearly

not very easy. Um. But and obviously you know we're talking about also talking about this in a Christian perspective as well. You know, how does how can our brothers that I can't you know, how can brothers in Christ being more supportive in each other to do those things that you're suggesting because it is difficult, it is tricky, but when you need people, it's going to do something. You need people to run around you, and sometimes it

is the brothers that you need someone like yourself. I think for me, I'm sure about reading from examples. So I think if the men show me being vulnerable and being I haven't got the right word to use, but this depression when it come times, being needy and just being you know what, I need to support, you know, kind of gives them the kind of manage it that it's okay to be like that as your up or men being like that, it's just going to strengthen that idea that men should just kind

of do the whole thing. So I think for me it's just simportant first of all, that i'd be an example. That's what I wanted exam things that Rob had, especially with nicational community. I can't just say it's not happening or should be happening. I have to be an active example of that so they can visibly see that when they see Stephen, Stephen is willing to actually share himself to be vulnerable to say that at least to say it support

like it starts with me. Just showing that example to our young men. He may feel like I don't, I don't get the point, if that makes sense. Another thing I'll say, it's just too basically to share, share why it's a good thing to to speak, an open up because I think everybody handles things differently. But for my personal experience, it's never healthy,

it's never been good what I've been things inside. I think AMSL to Angela or Daniel that mentioned that some sign men instead of talking the results of other things to give them comfort, if that makes sense. And a person that knows that you are where if I'm not speaking, then something close that I'm doing to fill that word, if that makes sense. So it's kind of trying to bring an awareness to young men about the negatives of being silent.

And I think it's normal to be silent. If i'ven't been taught how to speak, then I can't I can't be upset if I'm as not speaking, if it doesn't know how to speak, if it doesn't know how to processes emotions. And that's so for me one of my personal projects at the moment, I'm working on the certain principles of counseling, just paying together strategies just to teach like that just men what that's in general, to teach people how to deal with certain things, how to process their emotions, how to

sit sense stuff. I think a lot of young men don't have that kind of educations and or how to process and do certain things. They don't know how to how to speak, so I can't I can't judge a person, but being quiet or being cold, or there's public tizement and adult fum church is what we try to reach chapter a younger man and they've got one kind of a coult older and they might ful bader by what if that person I've ever been taught how to have a conversation and an emotional level company Blader,

It's just like it's just what it is. So I think for me it needs to be a level of education in terms of those who know certain things, just to teach people or young men how to basically have those difficult conversations. How do our process what's bolling on? How do I even verbalize it?

When you think about certain guys, certain guys don't even say a yota about what's s folling in there because they've never been never been in a situation where they feel safe enough to do so if that makes sense for me, are you making so much sense? It's support for me to be that example and eat from the front. So that's why we're never I speech and I say this before I make someone or something, because I think there's a balance

to this. So I realized this when I was younger and my early days preaching that when I used to preach, if you're listening to really what I say in my sermons, sometimes if you're listening carefully, you will hear some of the pain coming out in what I'm saying, if that makes sense, Because if I'm not dealing with it, it's gonna come out in different ways. And I don't mean to actually do it intentionally, but because especially back

in the day, I didn't really have an opportunity to say anything. When I found myself preaching in those early days, a lot of the pain and a lot of the chiln I used to kind of creep right into the sermons. And why so far is because people in the church always appreciate it, the warness and the transparency and the openness. At the same time, I'd be honest, I wasn't dealing with these things that I was speaking about, I wasn't I wasn't processing, and I wasn't doing my homework and making sure

that the things that are speaking about and getting my own either. So I think when I've got older, I realized that Stephen, you're doing a good thing. Will be honest and open about whatever your life and soulful that's but make sure that off the pulpit, we're taking care of yourself. And I felt like I was very very imbalanced where I was trying to help people and be given need to be, but neglecting my own self. So it told me a long time to get to a point. You know, Steve,

don't use the passion, but just refocus it for now on yourself. It's not being selfish, it's not being self saying. It's just making sure that you are taking care of yourself and then you can eat people to have someone else more effectively. So I think for me, it started myself. I've got to be an example and I've gotta be what I need to be for someone else. Yeah, putting the oxygen mask on fast. I say all the time, I must sound like a stuck record, but it is what

you're told to do when there's a reason for it. Unless you are in a good place, then you aren't able to help others because you both think and that's what you're told to do in the aircraft, aren't you to put the mask on the fast and then you can fit it on the child, and then you can fit it on others. And that is so true. I did have one question when you Stephen was saying about um talking to the

young folks, talking to people in general, and being vulnerable. What about I always think about, like, I'm not trying to play the advocate, but it may sound that way, but because in today's society, to the young boys, they want to be hard. They try to be hard, and then when you come and you're talking to them, they think that when you show that vulnerability, that's the problem. You could sometimes come into that you showed that vulnerability, you showed that soft aside, and they take that

for a weakness, so then they're not listening to you. So then you have to like so it's like it's a balance of being a little vulnerable but also showing strength at the same time, because if you showed if you if you're too vulnerable, if you're too weak. Then, you know, it's kind of like what they say, know your audience, then they they they won't hear you anyway because they're gonna you know, they think you soft,

so they're not gonna listen. Because kids today act like we as an adult didn't go up and we didn't have the same problems they had, or we didn't do some of the things they did. They think we just poof. And I've said that before. You know, we just poof, we're hair, We're an adult. Sorry, Okay, well I'm actually actually like,

have you ever had to deal with something like that? Are yours? I think there's been signs when as you mentioned, to know your audience, so it's been sized when for example, and you speaking to young people in prison, so as an example, you're speaking to prisoners. It's not the same way that I approach for speaking to a convocation on the normal sabath day.

That makes sense. So I think for me in that situation, so about making sure that wherever I'm saying, they can connect with if that makes sense, because I think there's something in everybody that connects with something and what I'm saying, I believe I have to believe that was able to give me something that even though I'm not being in prison, I've not done certain of things. But I have to believe that all of us have a common female life,

which is all of life. And I'm able to somehow say something nack the next view of someone, then I cannot got them slack. I've got their attention and then they're able to basically engage more. But you're right, unless you have that taxed and ability to to balance it, then it's going to be difficult to reach certain people. As you said, have a go mandset where I'm not trying to be emotional and emotions don't work. I'm just going to try to be this hard person and it's kind of difficult to break.

And the reason my own example, if it's taking me a long time to get to a point that actually speak my emotions, what about someone else You doesn't have the resources or the experiences that I have the harder So it's just not having that mandset where it's got to be patient with people and understand that everybody's a certain place. Yeah, but we're not even sounding like a

cliche or sounding to preachy. But I'm just learning that once we've just them, I've got a spirit is able to sue how to give you that that ability say? We need to say, I've been in church, I know, I know the terms. Well. I think we need somehow that the spirit is reading something that we need to be able to help people to yeah, just break through slf things and to open up and speak. Stephen,

you um you mentioned in the conversation. We just had some very key points and I just want to reiterate it if you'd like that you are intentional about speaking to and being open with young men, though it may be difficult, though culture may have sort of shut our young men up um or made them think that emotion is a sign of weakness instead of instead of strength, that you're intentional about doing it, you know, seeing people for where they're at,

um, seeing people for what they are, and just having the conversations anyway and being open and being vulnerable. I think truth goes a long long way when people see that you're legitimate, that you are being real and role. It really connects with people because people are going through stuff and I find for me personally, I take I accept the conversation more from someone who's been where they say they've been and has been through it, rather than you preaching

at me. You've gone through it, you know how it is. You know where I'm at, and you're able to connect with me better. And I love that you're saying being intentional and also to show our young men the value in brotherhood. That's a big point. That's a big point, you know, to have someplace that you can be honest, to have someplace that you can be open, and to be there and to have that conversation safely

so it's not going to come back on you. You're not gonna hear it on the road, and people are not going to be ratting you out and and sharing your secrets. This is a space where you can be open and just say, hey, I'm dealing with this and I feel like I'm dealing with it alone. And you'd be surprised the number of young men in the room who have been but have been dealing with it and being silent about it. And I'm really really passionate. Well, I'm raising a young man.

So if you hear the passion, that's where it comes from. Man. I know I'm not a man, but I'm trying really hard to raise one, and when I see the statistics, it scares me. You know, it's really scary. Sixteen percent of suicides are from our men compared to six for females. Twenty two point five percent of forty five to fifty four year olds males. That's the suicide rate. Seventy four percent of all suicides in the UK involve men, and suicide is the second biggest killer or cause of

death for young males. That's some scary stuff and it's important for me that our young men understand that and understand that it doesn't have to be that way, because there is so much healing in a real good conversation. There's so much wisdom in a real good conversation. You know, Brothers learn from brothers, Brothers inspire brothers. You know, Brothers bridge the gap for brothers who

don't have brothers. And I don't know if I'm rattling on, but this is the kind of stuff that we need to share and make sure that our young men know, and our older men too. Fifty four year olds, forty five to fifty four year olds, twenty two percent of them feel lonely rejected, you know, and they're struggling too, so if we're not educating And you said that education is key. If we're not educating our men, that conversation is key. That conversation is okay, that emotion is okay.

Speaking is okay, Crying is okay. I mean, there's a day was my son was crying. He's gonna kill me for this. It was crying because he I took him off the PlayStation and I was like, you two groan and I was. I made sure I said it that way. I didn't want to. I don't want to say you're you know, you're you're a man or whatever, because I don't want to him to go away with that impression. What I said was your two grown, big fifteen sixteen year

old cry for coming off of a PlayStation. But when when I stepped out of the room, I thought, oh my gosh, he's still a baby. I still got a baby here of my hands. But it's good to see. I thought it was good to see, right or wrong, because in today's generation, in in in today's society, our boys, our boys who are trying to be men or men who are trying to be better man.

I shut down too often? Was he crying because you took him off the PlayStation or was he crying because of what he did to get taken off the PlayStation? He was He was in the middle of a game and he was on the highest score ever when he came off and he told me the story. You know, Oh god, he had me. He had me almost crying myself. You know, he befriended someone, didn't get a chance to connect with them. They were having the game of their lives, and

he was on the score, his best score ever. And there I was just pull the plug. I didn't give him any time, but I had been telling him for a long time to come off it and he wouldn't budge. So I just had enough and I just went in a pool. I pulled the plug out, and I said, he's taller than me. Yeah, he said that too. You know, he's taller than me. He's bigger than me, I mean. And I just see him call up and cry, and I thought, what what what is this? But you know,

I tried not to. I tried to let him and to talk about it and all that kind of good stuff, because again, it's it's important for me that our men or young men and me raising a young man, that he understands that it's okay. It's okay, and come talk to me if you have to. And so after after Zenia's overhead destroying this young man's PlayStation, she has about a new one because she pulled it out the plug. You don't understand those things, electric boy, you could you could destroy

that PlayStation. Those things are expensive. I ain't pulling up. Look I'll take the remote from him or something. I ain't pulling I ain't pulling the plug out. I ain't doing that because you know, but we want to get Uh, Steve, you had you and your brother were actually doing a collaboration right on an event coming up. Would you like to tell us a little bit about that as we're getting close to time. The concept is so

let should get towards young people. It could be people with in the educational sets off because of young people. In terms of doing young people, you are breaking so basically using our story of all tuns and just relating to people in a career. Hey, what we're doing through what we've obviously have gone through. We're breaking down our story and bringing out repeat constets and basically is it as a way to educate and just teach don see what they have to

basically get through some diffic almost they may be experiencing. So don't be professionals will becoming new yugustly season in their craft practitioners and so Befo'll be there to um give talks, workshops still be a lot of your engagement stuff like that. But the main thing is just basically, how do you get through breaking point when you feel like you're out point where you learnt what to do, how to process or it was going on? What he can we can practically

duty to get through it. We're just using our story in every relatable breaking way. Yeah, I got the fly? Is that you and your brother? Yea? You know I had to say something, but I'm sorry I had to blow your blootle bit you know. Oh boy, yeah those I remember those outphits back in those days. So could you tell us the time same you can know what you say? Oh my god, that really is me. I was gonna try to guess who was slow, But it sounds

like a really great concept. Why was it important to use your own stories? And I guess you know took a bit about that, But in this kind of context, what we're doing obviously working with it Why was that important? Yeah, because I feel like in stories, especially in question stories, is one of the most ahoys to get someone to connections and engage someone. She used the life for what I'm saying and able to me. I'm about

chance of understanding and gaining a question don't make sense? People people see me there's a normal question. Willing to share myself and talk about some of my situations and challenges that I'm going through. They're able to see some of the things that I've done to you overcome and I'm still learning and don't get twisted, but they're able to see some of the growth and some of the things that happened. Then gives them hop to know that. Yeah, I can

then a certainly that many sense. So I think to your stories are out will think everybody connect with the story and just use So when is this happening and how can people find out about it? Yeah? So I'm I want to see you so far. Um once second, we want to twentieth about August. I think it's the twenty in the twentieth pribe thirty to eight o'clock for Andrew's instagent, you know with the link to the event. Right, He's from there but these details. Yeah, yeah, do you want me

to share it, Stephen, I've got the flyer up. Yeah, okay, So the email I've got is a Fuller at Andrew Fuller dot me. So that's Fuller few double l e R so a Fuller at Andrew Fuller dot me. The event is on the twentieth of August at five thirty to eight o'clock and it will be at the Advent Center at thirty nine Brendon Street, London, UM And it's the tickets. The tickets are fifteen pounds and fourteen plus make sure you put that and it's gonna be a London. The event

center Instagram is this is Andrew Fuller. Yes, yeah, oh yeah, perfect cool. That's sounds really good. Sounds really good. So I hope that's that even when attended, and like you said, you're sharing your stories, your brothers, and we'll be talking about in any importance of brother I don't really, it's about making connections. Yeah, no, I was gonna happen. I was gonna it always happens, always happens, and then you go you want that's when you ask the question. At the end, I'm

like, Angela, what it's cool because it's good. You gotta we gotta get it all in there now. He's in the hot seat. He knows how it is. I know how this is because I'm like, I'm trying to I'm trying to go to break. And then she asked the ques angel really Angela. But that's fine no, because we need we need to get those we need to get. He's given us a lot of good points. So we're going to have your final thoughts. Well play use you want to?

Okay, selected this one U twenty three, so we should be able to squeeze that in there. And then with our final thoughts, it's p J. Morton. Don't let go? A great choice. I know it's been so harden, you don't know what it all means. Mmm. But don't you ever let it go? See there's a raising you are still standing, atter you seeing mm, So don't you ever let go? Don't let go, don't let go. Oh please just don't ever let go. You're getting tired, and it feels like it's been going on for years. Oh

but don't you ever go. Nothing wrong with cry, there's no denying. Let it out o your tears. Mmmm. But please just don't ever let go, don't let go, don't let go? Oh, don't you ever let go? Don't let go, don't let go? Oh, don't you ever let go? Oh? So right, so as you're back now, that was don't let Go by p J. Watson. Yeah, that was was connuation by yourself. Stephen. Can I put you on the spot again enough? Your connection to that song? Why? Why? It's just just

the words. I think when I first heard it, I think I was going through some stuff and I think it just struck a chord. YEA favorite single words, no, no any thing, don't you just keep on going? Simple song, but the words are very very very powerful, and I think when I heard it the first time, it just fotune my experience. So yeah, very apt for today's program as well. Yeah. I really enjoyed that it was acapella too, So I didn't expect that you so used

to music being you know, music having music. Indeed, so Angela you Zenia who would like to go final thoughts first? Um? I can. A lot has been said, a lot has been discussed, a lot of useful conversation, and we will have it podcasted if you want to listen again. Steven, thank you so much for joining us to our last conversation with your Angela's last conversation only sort of hinted at what today would be like. You were very open, very honest, and you shared some real stuff.

I wish you all the very best with your ministry as you continue. At the quote that I found that I thought was so so good, It said Matthew usin King in fact, we must live together as brothers or we perish alone. And I thought that was so deep because it says to me what brotherhood should be about. It is coming together and strengthen, meet each other and progressing because there is power and purpose immunity, and that is what I

hope our listeners walk away with, particularly our men. Our young men are boys that connected Adela, which segues into nicely what I was going to say, obviously, and he wasn't able to make it empty day, but hopefully he'll be able to join this another time. But shout out to him and whether he's beginning with him this evening. But Steven, thank you so much again. As Senya said, and what I loved and I get thank you for being for sharing and being so open is about honestly vulnerability, and we

need to to connect. Will he can help someone to share with someone to my best connections. Especially as to my first question, we are abother skeepers, Yes we are because we're cool to do that. So yeah as well. And my final though pretty pretty much that as men, as a as a man, um, you have to take care of yourself first, as Steven said, we got to. You got to take care of yourself and

be honest with yourself. And once you do that, then everything else falls into place and you can be the father you need to be, be the husband you need to be, be the God friend man you need to be, which is always first before everything else because God is first, and then the rest falls into place. Um. And then be willing to talk to young men or talk to your kids and be honest and just we got we

got I think I said, there's a long time ago. I think in a Halloween thing, you know, like where at war with the devil, with our children and with ourselves and just just in our manhood and our brotherhood where it war and we need to just we need to stand fast and um really get just knuckle down and just get into the word and get God to just lead us and everything that we do, because if we don't let God lead us, then we like you I figure who said, but we would

never we just won't be right. In the long run. We're gonna be just fooling people and fooling ourselves more than anything. So that would be my final thought. So with the end of that, oh, well, you know I'm going to do something. Stephen, would you be kind enough to pray for us? Steve? I'm sorry, I said, Stephen. I'm and Steve's first thankful this time Spence with a job about robinghood and what it means. What's been said, which has been over Hoorking. It's been challenging,

but not the experience has been with us. So I'm asking a spirit to help Post to apply the things that we'd like today. Help Post to be intentional, to go about trying to make this a part of our experience. Help Post to yes, stay humble and am I your spirit to be the ultimate guide and what we do. Pay for any young man listening in this conversation, Pay for what you can be him in a specially pro bide for them, the right people to be there for them, allow them to

navigate through their situations. I want to prove everybody on the school. He has facilitated this conversation. It's greatly to continue to guide them to be them, just to help them to continue to use this platform. To of all thank you. Before we leave, I just had a thought to come across my head. I'm sorry, as you was praying, Um, as you

said earlier, we don't just because you're not a pastor. I mean, you can't preach and just want for anybody out there just because you don't have a I feel like we were talking about when you preach, what genuine saying and about. I think it's the realness, Like you just come off as really genuine, and I think that's that is a good thing to have and a good thing to possess because we have pastors preaching sometimes and you know, they got the MD and they got the pH d, but they're not they're

not reaching anybody with they're preaching because it's all technical. I think we need to be as I said, we need to be more real with the people, with people in general, and just transparent and just and just honest because people people nowadays don't want a whole bunch of book textbook talk. They want real life talk. They want to know what you're say. What you're going

through is what I'm going through. So I just want to, you know, say that appreciate your men, and um definitely appreciate your testimony last week and also coming on today and sharing with us, um. Everything. So this is the end of talking Point, and I guess I did okay for my first time on the board. So don't clap whatever, because that's like a pity that's like a pity clop. That's like a pity clop, a pity clop. You can't win, that's right. You can't win with me.

You're right, you can't win with me anyway. But um so, actually after talking Point today, please stay tuned because we're gonna have a very own zen Ya doing Saturday Night Praise, which she's gonna come on and play a whole bunch of good music, dumping music, we get off, your get off, your get off at your seat and danced music. So in Jesus name, of course, in Jesus name, so please join us. In a few minutes, you'll be back on your lovely voice now. And

as for now, it's good night from Zenia. Good night, Thank good knife on page up all right and this is talking to play. Have a good night, God bless Adventist Radio, London. Inspiration for the song