Adventist Radio London inspiration for the.
Song Welcome to Talking Point. Oh, how the time has flown. Another week has passed and we're here, and I thank you all for joining us, and you've been blessed by wherever you've been and whatever you've been doing. I know I've had a busy day as usual, but here we are on the Sabbath evening, ready to have a really another good conversation. It's been a month of men's men's talk.
It's been November traditionally known as November, and we've been speaking to some really interesting men throughout this across the last few weeks. Last week we talked about men's health, both physical health and mental health, really big topic. We've spoken to a guy who has done a lot of work within his community, and we've also spoken to our Men's Ministry team sat in the South of England conference and the work that they've been doing as well. They
have a regular men's talk. So it's been really encouraging as a woman to see that men have been getting together and having those conversations. And I hope you've been able to join with us and listening as well. As always, I am joined by my co host Pedro, I've only got one with me at the moment. Hopefully send you and maybe able to join us shortly. But Pedro, how are you doing.
Good?
Out to everybody, welcome to Talking Point. I'm doing good. Angela, how are you doing well.
I've got a bit of a cold, I have to admit, but my voice is a little croaky. But you know, to me, oh, well, maybe the talking about the day. I think it's kind of getting better. Well, I don't know, we'll see, we'll see. I have my trusty bottle of water next to me.
So you hydrated, You hydrated. There you go, that's why.
So so yeah, hopefully, Yeah, of course you've had a good week. This's the week as usual.
No, actually has been pretty decent. Work has been steady.
But yeah, I've stayed in within the confines of my area, no.
Long distance really and she just work.
We had a Christmas party, so I went down. I actually went down to my job for a Christmas party and it drove back when I lost for that. Yeah, there's nothing more, you know.
Yeah, I've got a couple of those coming up as well, so if that happened, ye.
I'm not into them like that. I don't like.
I don't like you know a lot of I like people, but I don't like to be sometimes in a like all around you know, I know, like.
It's hard to display.
Like then the music and it's just loud, and sometimes it kind of you know, gets me gets my brain a little bit.
Right, We're getting old, that's what it is.
I'm definitely getting old. I'm right behind you.
No, I hear that.
I hear that. But I quite like getting together with people. I'd like the idea of exchanging gifts and stuff, so that's always quite good. You know, some of the gifts that end up people end up getting. I'm not always that great, but you know, I'm hoping for a nice one this year, so it's all good. It's all good.
Yeah, We've we got three gentlemen with us today, right, we.
Have, yes, So, as I say, this has been our men's month, so we're going to We've been covering at different topics, but today we're looking at relationships. I guess starting some kind of you know, the whole idea of friendship and brotherhood right through to relationships in a romantic sense. So we've got three guests with us currently, so I'm
looking forward to the conversation there. As always, if you want to connect with us and join the conversation, we'd love to hear from you, so you can email us at so Sorry, you can email us on studio at Adventist Radio dot London, or you can send us a text message that's eight triple two eight, write hope, leave a space and then your message. We can send us a WhatsApp message on zero seven four five nine six four two eight nine eight. So again, do connect with us.
We want to hear your views and your thoughts as well, and that's studio at Adventist Radio dot London. Text to eight triple two eight, write hope, leave a space and then add your message, or you can send us a WhatsApp on zero seven four five nine six four two eight nine eight. As we've got to guess on with us today, we're talking about relationships, looking forward to the conversation.
Interesting to get the Ben's view on this, But as always, we want to invite God into our conversation as well, so let's bow our heads and let's start with prayer. Oh God, I want to thank you for blessing us with another wonderful Sabbath dear Lord, and I pray that whatever we did today, that we were blessed by the words,
the message, the songs that we've heard. I thank you, Dear Lord for allowing us this time on this platform, Dear Lord, to share another word, Dear Lord, to have a conversation about topics that they haven't always spoken about. But deal Lord, we're focusing on our men and the impact that they have within their families, their communities. And I pray, Dear Lord that our listeners will be blessed
and we'll learn something from what they're here today. I thank you for being an awesome God and hearing an answering. Thank you Lord, your name.
Amen here man.
Okay, so we are joined on our platform today. Bye, We've got some special guests on, so I guess what we'll do. We'll go around and kind of get them to introduce themselves a little bit about themselves, what they do, and then we will get started straight into our conversations. So I'm looking at my screen and I can see
that I've got just to see the name. So I was going to go round, but I'm going to start with I will start with Hilton, So I know we met Hilton a couple of months ago at an event for solo Fest down at Ballam Church, we were part of a panel discussion solo Fest being a singles ministry festival that happens yearly run by co hosted byke Anel And yeah, that was a really good, really good day,
really good program, really good discussion. And it's the opportunity to kind of meet new people and say hey, come on to our show. So here we are. So Hilton, welcome to Talking Point. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Well, Thank you, Angela and Pedro. I'm delighted to be with you to have a conversation with people of your ilk and caliber. As you indicated, my name is Hilton Samuel and I do help singles who get the right person for them, and I have the term right in brackets and that's the main focus of the type of
work I do. Because I am a self proclaim apostle, I you knows, as Paul says, I'm a card of men called of God to bring hope and inspiration to families because I'm profoundly convicted, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the whole foundation of all society around the world and in the church, around the world, around the globe is the strength of the unit of the community, which
is family. And whenever family breaks down, empirical evidence shows that all help brings loose in the lives of women, men, children, and society at large. Whenever we have strong families, then there is a ripple effect that the society, the church, and of course the family themselves do well. Children grew up to be powerful citizens and in the context of Christianity, powerful weaknesses of God. And so I am actually an advocate, a campaigner for people to get married and stay married.
I run a ministry called God Wants You Married. I know that there is a little bit of a tricky, an interesting talking point, and we can debate that whether or not everybody can get married, but I believe that that's God's default position. I know in the world today, and I know I'm taking up a little bit of a time that lots of people are finding it very challenging to get married, particularly women. And they're all kinds
of statistic. But just last night or a couple of days ago, I ran a webinar that it's what's called it's easy to get married. You're the one who's making it difficult. Well enough said, I let the other guys muscling by introduce them, introducing themselves, and we could talk about those kind of concepts that that I've just thrown out there in the in the on the internet, interweb.
It's been on the radio, on the radio. Thank you for that. Oh I'm intrigued already. So yes, thank you for that, Hilton. I'm looking forward to oh, looking forward to hearing your insights. Okay, then we have Collechi.
Hi, Hi, Yes, I excited just to hear mister Sam continued to talk. It was exciting, really started, but it was exciting. You're cutting too quick.
Don't worry. We've got plenty of time, plenty tom So, Collecchi, tell us a little about yourself, what you do? And I've got to say, should I be asked everybody's relationship status? But maybe I won't for now. But I'm single, okay, all right, so it's to be interesting. As you said, but what do you do, Collechi and why you why were you quite passion to come on and talk about relationships today.
And you just knows the questions. Yeah, as you know, as you said, my name is Colletchi. I'm I'm from Crowding, SDA and I work in the cleaning industry, run a small cleaning company. And yeah, it's been going on for since twenty nineteen, and I give God praise and ask the relationships I find it. It's it's, it's it's it's a big topic out there today. It's really big. And you know, every time any any any social gathering, the conversation of relationship always comes up. So I'm just intrigued.
And I'm glad that Sir Samuel is on because he's the expert. So it will let me see if well some things that I have in mind and the other people I've spoken to, and if we're on, if you're on the right trajectory or will my man give us a traffic light direction?
Cool? And I know you and I've had lots of conversations about relationships, so yeah, looking forward to that as well. So thank you. I find we've got gentlemen called Micah so Micaeh, I know you've friends of clusurees. Introduce yourself and listen a little bit about yourself and again, why a you're passionate to talk about relationships on our platform today? Have to come off me though, So okay, maybe we'll come back and get okay we did have also, sure, no,
somebody that's just coming on as well. We've just got another guests on as well, so let's see how they can get on as well. Sean, do we have you there?
Sean is going Sean was.
But he's he's rejoined again as shared as well. That's just time if I remember rightly, Okay, I'm going to see those two will come back.
Yeah, we're just a little difficulties as always.
Yeah, technical is, yes, the way, it's the way, make it work it. Okay, we'll come back. So we'll come back to those guys and get them to issue themselves. But I guess, I mean, I don't know where we want to go with we want to start, but I guess I wanted to go back to something Hilton that you said with regards to be sort of the basis foundation being the family. So relationships are going to be really key to having successful family family units. But it's
making about making connections. And I guess when I was literally thinking about relationships, I guess the idea of just relation or connections and between obviously with talking you know, family want of family units that may be made up of men, women, children, et cetera. But what would be
the specific and specialness between friendships and brotherhood of men? Really, because the connections with men, because sometimes I will speak to men and I'm sure they have close friends, but I don't know, it's a very different type of relationship than it is we'd say with women in their friendship groups. So is there anything key that you have noted throughout your work about the sort of the friendships between men that you see.
Well, I mean, I think empirically men function vastly different to women and women within their friendship groups, they have really great connection and they maintained those connections, you know, through the various activities that they have. I have my wife, she is constantly speaking to her female friends. They you know what I'll give you and analogy one time, I mean even recently, they decided that they were going to go out and go on this weekend together. So they
spoke for the entire week organizing this weekend. They went on the weekend, and then they came back and on her way home she was still talking to them, and when she got home and got in the house, she called them again and was like debris, I thought you were on this thing for the whole weekend. You were over them, and still you're calling them to talk with them. So they have this kind of strong bond and they make every effort to maintain that bond, whereas men, we're
quite we're fairly loose with our connection. And I don't know if the other men here would agree with me. I have friends that I haven't spoken to for for a long time, but once we connect, it's as if we we It was as if yesterday we were talking. So there is a loose connection, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that we have no friends or that we are not you know, connected, just that for me, from my perspective,
we connect differently. Although of recent times, my observation and some of the people that I read, it's showing that we are being more and more forced into isolation and unless we make a definitive effort to come together, is not going to happen. More and more people are working from home, more and more men are working from home. Used to be the day governor, the days when we used to collectively meet together, whether in hunting paths or coming together in the village. Those of us are were
from the from you know, developing countries. Men loosely come together in the village, you know, talk and whether it's at the worm shop or even at church. We so that is kind of particularly in the West, in what we call what we call the West, I just use we are very isolated, isolated, and I think we have to make more of a concerted effort to come together.
Whether in fact I am trying to think from in my church, I'm the family life leader, and I in the in the back of my head, I want to have a men's night out, or a men's togetherness, or or just just for men and boys, strictly for men and boys. But I also find that men get together better around an activity rather than open talking shop just sitting around the table eating. If we do something together, that activity binds and bond us more, it's easier for
us to talk and connect. I don't know what the other guys would have to say about those ideas that I've just thrown out. I would like to hear their views, but I think I will. The main point that was I started by making that the way we connect is vastly different the way women connect and women are much more intentional about maintaining their friendships than we are as menu.
Okay, so can I she any thoughts on what Hilton was just saying there or what I was saying in terms of friendships and the connections between men and he thoughts on that.
I agree with him when he mentioned about women have their connections like they'll just go on chatting, but men I have a similar relationship. There's there's friends in my circle who we haven't seen each other for moms something, just for a long time, and when we connect it's as if, as he said, we were talking like the next all day, last yesterday. So there is a difference.
And yeah, I'm in agreement with someone, Go ahead, is that sure?
It's me. I'm in a correct moment.
How are you doing?
Me and you and the rest of guys we talk all the time, and like like what you just said, I might go in my house and I'm still talking to you. So I want to disagree, really because I find myself maybe I've got some woman jeans or something. I don't know, but I talked a lot of guys I do, and I'm on the phone just like Edre just said, I ring this person that person and I do speak. Even when I speak to you, teacher, I might be I might have come from somewhere and we're
on the phone, I ring your back. I have to disagree to some degree. Maybe maybe the majority guys are like that, but I do talk.
I think Jared, you're the outlier. I mean, Sean, that's right. I'm just looking at your name. I'm sorry because I'm like them. I'm the same way. I'm noting Page.
I.
I have friends in Bermuda that I haven't spoken to in years. But if we call right now, we could talk for two hours and it was like nothing. But like my wife, my wife, if that person don't call them, if she don't call her for like then in three months, she's like, did I do something wrong? Is something wrong? What's the matter? Like why they don't call me anymore? What's going on?
Like you know, in that sensement are different because you cannot speak to a guy for a month to two months and you pick up exactly the same place.
Where you take.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
I was just saying that. I think you're probably out. You know, there's a few guys that do talk. You're probably your pap. You were saying that you talk, you know, to a lot of you know, gentlemen. So I was saying that you may be that like outlier, but I think it's a lot more men that just don't They just don't have that, you know.
I don't know what it is, just.
I'll tell you what is a lot of marriage men, their wives push them out not to talk to other people and keep their friendship. And you see a lot of guys do that. They go out and then soon as they get a woman, they stop talking to different guys and don't keep their friendship, where a woman will keep a friendship. Me, I keep my friendship because guys I've known before, I talked to them all the time. But it's a lot of guys in church they just cut they just cut off guys, and they don't want
to they don't want to know know that normal. They're just with their wife and the wise friends. And you find a lot of women's got friends and some guys don't have any friends because they actually cut themselves off.
Yeah, I can see that. I was back a little bit because I'm mad. I've been mad for nineteen years. My wife pushes me to go and talk to guys, I just personally my power.
You'll think I probably can talk about this.
My problem is that I have I know it's gonna sound weird, but I actually talk. I actually talk better to women than I do the guys for some and it's not that I flair with them, and it's just I just I just maybe because it's that dynamic of what I was doing.
So I was always at the kids.
I was always watching the kids, so you know, so like I just always I didn't really connect with the guys. I'm more connected with the women, you know, But I always just talk to married women. I wouldn't like be out there just talking like that. I maybe saying it wrong, but it's gonna sound where but yeah, my wife knows. I'm not worried about it. But yeah, I think it just depends on the guy in that in that.
Yeah, sorry, Petro ex flinished what you're saying.
No, no, no, that was all I was saying because I don't want to I don't want to like, if I keep talking, people may take the wrong things.
I don't want to say, Like.
I would want to make another point, another observation. If your mind even the content of what we speak about is slightly different to women. It's not that men don't talk about other people. We do talk about other people. But our conversation, I think again I can be corrected. It's a little bit more focused and maybe to the point, to the point, maybe operational. We have conversation that there is a point to it, and not that I'm saying that women speak pointless.
I know, Zach, what you mean. We talk with purpose.
Yes, there is a purpose.
We have a purpose of the conversation.
Yes, we just don't talk to talk well a woman and anyway they are talking, and they are just kind of generalize, like you know, like beat around the bush.
Well, let's go down there.
Let's not go down there.
It's the truth.
I tell you all the time. It's the truth.
Just get to this.
This in a way for us, they speak differently to the way we speak. Usually it sounds like they're beating around the bush. But it does have a purpose, you know, every little it's almost they could start with one point, but they go off in myriads of different directions and and all that is important to them. I we found we find that generally speaking, this is just simply generalizedation. Generally speaking, women talk to connect, and men talk connect to talk.
So.
The way they frame their conversation is slightly different to the way we frame of a conversation, and the weather conversation flows. And back to the whole concept of us being lone wolves or not having friends. I don't think that we don't have friends. We do have friends. We don't spend as much as much time as they do in the way they do. And I think again Petro used the word focused. We're very focused. I find, and I could only speak for myself, and you guys could pitching.
I find that if I'm doing something, I can't be having general conversation with my wife. I mean, you know, it throws me off. She comes in the room and starts the conversation while I am at the computer, very focused, and I either have to stop what I'm doing to listen to her, or but I see her cooking, washing, talking,
cross talking. If I come in the kitchen and she's on the phone, and she'll be on the phone and she starts a conversation with me and the other person her friend is on the line, and she jumps back and forth, and I'm amazed. I'm amazed, and I think, sorry, said that again.
Than men.
Well, yes, we use the term multitask, but for some in some way, their brain is configured slightly differently. Whereas if we're doing something, we're very focused, and many of us are busy. We have busy lives. If we at work, you know, we need to just get on with work. My wife, when I used to be out and you know, go into the office and things like that, she would
call me and I don't pick up. Then when she does get me, she would be asking me why I didn't pick up, and I'm thinking, hold on, why don't you just tell me what you called me for?
You?
But the fact is that she wants to connect with me, and because she wants to connect with me, she would call. Yes, sometimes she has a specific reason to call, but I have to stop my work and listen to her, Whereas I in my mind, she's probably multitasking, doing several things
in the background. And I think that one of the slight things that get in our way is one way is so busy, particularly those of us who are in the workforce, and in order for us to talk, we need to carve out time to have that conversation, and many times we don't have the time. Maybe Sean does you know he makes the time. He does it while he's in the car, and sometimes we do to then he goes home and calls someone else. And I agree with Petro, he's probably he probably is an outlier to
to many of us. But it's not that we don't do it, but we need the time, and we also need time to get together.
So I say this to conversation. I talk a lot of it. I really our friends are saying sometimes, man, I'm kind of the phone that wech had a lot of smack and I have multiple conversations, but we finished the conversation. We change the conversation about. There was a different subjects, but they all get there with and not just sticking a topic. We jump from here today today on a different topics, but within the conversation, we finish the topic. So I'm definitely different than you guys, A
hundred percent different. And actually I was speaking to a guet a garage. I just went there and I was just talking to him. I said, I'm a guy that talks. I've got any way, and I talked, so show thatself friendly. You have many friends, so genuine I'm a friendly person.
Well, yes, and I don't think I disagree with that. I agree with you. If you if you want to see men talk, go to the barbershop. And you know, we do talk. I don't think we're talk in the same way that women do talk. That's that's that's the point that someone.
Before you go on, I just want to say that you just obviously just joined this the program. Just introduce yourself. Just a little bit about yourself, and I love the fact that you've said, you know, show yourself friendly. You'll have lots of friends. Tell us a little bit about.
Who you are. Introduce me. You know me quite well, I can, but the others don't so well in me.
For a long time. Well, I know you're Sean Blake. Tell me about Sean Blake.
I'm just the regular guy. Everybody else named Sean Blake's a regular guy that everybody else. Yeah, all different, just that the average guy. No different than anybody else.
Okay, cool, okay, but yeah, definitely you say no different. But obviously you're quite very friendly, very talkative. That could be quite different from some men. And I guess we're talking today about relationships and relational Obviously we're talking starting up in terms of friendships, but obviously want to take that into you know, relationships, marriage, et cetera. So it be interested to get you a viewpoints on that. I know you're married, you've been married for how long?
Certain three.
Years, wonderful, So I'm sure you have a lot of insights into relational and relationships. So I'm looking forward to hearing a bit more on that.
I'm from you on that as well, So thank you.
I was wanted to check we did have Michael on the call. I don't know if you're still there, like, are you there? Not come off mut as yet? So okay, maybe not? Okay, all right. So in terms of what we're talking about, in terms of the conversations and friendships might have you, I guess people are very different. And also, as you mentioned, you know there are differences between men
and women and how we communicate. But Sean, for you, how important are your friendships for you and maintaining that because you mentioned before which is interesting that you know, men and women get together and when they get married, they often the men seem to either lose their friendships or don't maintain that connection in the same way that a woman would do. Any thoughts as to why that would be. And you know, with that, why is it important that you're maintaining your friendships?
I think anybody really should. Really if you've got a friend with somebody, if you're friends with somebody before you're married or you're married, you should maintain those friendships. They are important because, as you call it, to the closing part of your life, those are the friendships that really keep you if you don't have any friends. A lot of guys that have friends because it just gets stuff making their work, maybe in their family life, and they
depend on their wife's friends. And I think you can't depend on your wife's friends. You need your own personal male friends that you can talk to, that you can connect with. You know, the way men connect slightly different. I believe that men are more logical, more logical, not so emotional. Yeah, you do have emotions and stuff, so you do need to have You definitely need to maintain friendships,
especially if there's a younger audience out there. Make sure when you when you're when you're dating, that you don't cut off your friends. Try your best stop cut with your friends. If you've got friends and they're good friends, keep them because later in life, if you don't have those friends. You're just going to be lonely. You're just going to be lonely. I hear about lots of guys. The wife says, oh, when you're not here, shure, and he just goes up up in the room. I'm like,
what's up in the room. That's not me. I'm not sitting up in the room by amounts m And I.
Said something on that. Yeah, ahead, Yeah, much of what John is saying I subscribe to. But I have a different take on it, a slightly different take. When you get married, particularly with this institution called marrin marriage, we recognize there are a couple of things that your circumstances change, your priorities change, and because of that, it really changes the dynamics of what is happening between you and your friends. And so what needs to happen. You still need to
maintain your friendships. You still also need to perhaps even generate new friendships. And these friends should be friends of the relationship and not just only you. So your friends become friends of you and your wife. And I'm not saying that they have to be body friends with your wife, as you know, as they are with you, but they should also become advocates of the marriage to or the
relationship between you and your your spouse. What is because the reason why I'm saying that what is kind of dangerous is that sometimes, you know, we have people complaining or women complaining that what happens is that when they get married and they maintain their friendship with their single the single crowd, the single boys as if they are single, and they begin to continue going out with them and associate with them as they used to do when they
are single, that could become a little bit threatening in a number of ways. For example, if they go out and hang out together in the pub or you know, and and and do things that they used to do while they're single, then that could impact and influence the person who has gotten married. And I'm not saying that they should drop their friends. I'm not saying that they
should isolate themselves from their friends. I'm just saying that you need to be careful because we have seen cases where people still continue to hold on to that friendship circle and that friendship circle influenced them to do things that are not conducive to the relationship. Let's just put it that way.
Are we talking to Christian I'm talking to a Christian concept. So, so I was talking about and the Christian concept, there's no there's no threat of me doing that to the club stuff. That's what I was talking about. Really, I'm not talking about if you want me to have a level yeah.
So yeah, from a Christian perspective, they should also become friends of the relationship and their marriage.
But I think that should be I think that's just natural. I'm not gonna have a I'm gonna have a friend that I don't like my wife and AND's got a problem with her or whatever. I'm like that, man, I mean, you like me, you like my wife, but me me and you you know you can't you can't. You can't be having a friend. And he said, I just don't to stay with your missus. Obviously you're like you. I mean you're loving your missus. You're like no, no, no,
I mean they've a valued point. Why they're saying that for then that's not really their friend, is it? Because your friends should be encouraging you. I would like collection was a guy that used to come to my house. He was single. He was always encouraging me in my marriage over the years, all the time, most of my friends were like, I never had a friend that wasn't encouraging me in my marriage. Never. I've never had a
Christian friend. And even my friends who they were cool and then still got a good.
So what if what if you you're married and your wife has a male best friend.
Uhh, that happened.
Friend has to become friends of the relationship.
Did you say not happening.
I said, that's not happening.
That's just men a whole bag on that one. But he said best friend before you, Well, then she will have a best I'm her best friend.
Yeah, but he comes first, if you know, No, I don't know if if that person come first. No, No, what Sean just said, it's friend actually was an advocate of the relationship. Now that that friend, if you're just using whether or not the regardless of the gender, that friend, whoever he or she is, should become an advocate of the relationship. And if in any way, shape or form, the threatened the relationship, then you need to evaluate it.
And by threatening, I mean not necessarily making a move on your wife or anything, but dominating her time, you know, expecting her to do things that that would impact on the relationship and I'm not necessarily speaking in a sexual way. You know she can't. You don't want him to be prior to prioritize you know what she has to do with her with him over you? You, you become sensual in her life, and you are the priority of her relationship against any other even if they are best friends.
Are you? Are you talking about a male friend.
I'm talking about any gender.
Well, I'll be honest with you. I haven't really got a problem my wife talking to any male person, right. But like the other guy said, if my wife says she's doing that with arms, she got some friends friend before she's doing that with him, I have a problem with that too, because I'm like, oh, on, when is it you're run up and down with this guy? No? Yeah, I mean I think personally a woman, ain't. I ain't got no problem with a woman with My wife got
a male's friend, but she's run up and down with him. Nah, you're saying you need to be run up and down with me. That's what the other guy said. Because I can tell this the majority of men, and I hope it could be open. The majority of men, the old men, the vast majority of men. They get an opportunity. They've gone with your wife. The majority of men and they're
not friends. You can see lots of dating shows. Yeah, and a girl's being friends with the guy for ten years and the guy says, really up and tell him that you and the guy's back up and we want to netflix and chill. The guy says, yeah, we can netflix and chill. You know what that means. So most guys, you know, you've got the odd odd guy that's not interested, but the majority of guys, they're interested. They're interested in you in what that is one hundred percent?
And also for a minute, yeah, I was gonna say because I guess now if we've got some point where we've got a mad but actually we want to explore a little bit about getting to that point flesh. She has noted that he's single or many single men out there. Hilton. You run a program about, you know, helping single people find the right person. So I guess, I guess what we want to find out is that you know, what are the challenges and is it easy? Is the dating
is a dating game and easy one these days? Sean, you sort of hinted at some of these dating shows and seeing how people are on there, and there seems to be a lot of them out there at the moment. So for men, is it easy? Is it not easy? What's the situation there? You know we're talking about because we're kind of you know, at the end of the day, we have some married, married men on this call here, But if you're not married, you're going to get to
that point. That's what Hilting your program is all about. You believe that's what God would want for us. But how is that? I mean, where is the challenges there and what's been happening there? You know?
Before we go on, I want to say that with regards to that last question about having good friends of opposite gender, police write very clear that we must avoid the very appearance of evil. Even though you will have nothing going on and you're very good friends. When you become married, you don't want to be associated with your best friend in a way that would give any kind of suspicion. Right when it comes to that, then some clear lines need to be drawn in the sand.
That was my point. That's why I said when.
I was dating and I dated my wife, the moment I met my wife, I had my friends, but I no longer had I let them. I pushed them to the side because I was focusing on learning my wife and getting to know her. So now I put all my relationship into her. And I still kept some friends, but some friends I have to let go because, like you said, I always just say to my wife, you never put yourself in a situation that you know you
can't handle. So you never put yourself where you know you may fail, So you have to let go of. And I'm just being real here because you have friends that you know you and so just to make sure that I keep myself on the straight path. That's that's how I did it. That's just me. But I just believe that, you know, we could be like that.
With any of those friends about that, did I yeah, did you kind of sort of drop people or just not?
No?
I told them what they knew. They saw when they saw that I had my I was dating my wife at the time, my girlfriend. They knew how it was because I was always transparent in that way, because I always believed that you should put all your focus on who you are who you're dating first. When I did date, I dated multiple people I didn't like. I didn't like
what I wasn't conclusive. That wasn't just to just one person, because I wanted to see who I like who I so I would date like in a group bunch as friends, and then we all go out together. But then once I once, if I start to feel somebody or felt one person or I met somebody, then I, you know, kind of pushed the rest of them away. I know that may sound way, but I just pushed them. I didn't push them away like they was no longer in
my life. I just pushed them to the side a little bit and then focused on who I was dating.
Okay, just to say that we are using some dated times about dating.
Yeah, no, I know that's I'm saying. This is years ago, so I know it's definitely changed. It's definitely changes then I was, I admit this is I'm just saying it's definitely changed. So I have no idea. I couldn't tell you now what what the thing is now. I'm learning with my son, So you know, I'm learning with my son. I'm like, Lord, we didn't do any of this stuff back in the day.
It's a crazy world there actually, And so we're in a renaissance, a romantic renaissance. We this term dating that was confusing the back in the day, and we're showing that way of that generation that used that term. Then
you know there was a hook up culture then. Actually, I really a report recently that young people, particularly of the you know, college age, university age, they are now the new term that they're using is that we're we're talking, just talking, and they talk to these people and do things with each other that it's crazy.
So the dating what didn't do things stand well?
I think well from a Christian perspective and a non Christian person from a secular perspective, They literally sometimes times would even move in with each other and before with benefits or friends with benefits, but they use the term they're just talking until they clarify in their head what they're going to do. But they are, they're involve and engage with each other in a way that people who are exclusive would be, but yet they haven't actually committed
to each other. And similar things have actually been transpiring in the church. One of one of the things that I see, well, there are couple of issues, major issues that you know, Angela and many people that I speak with areware is the unavailability of of illegible men right, So that's that's one big major issues, an elephant in the room. And secondly, men don't seem to be a watching women the way back in our generation used to be, so a lot of women are confused. They're not being approached.
The men are not. There are some men who do it, but they are not taking the initiative. Even within the church, you know, they're just not taking The majority of them don't seem to be taking the initiative. There are some of them who do, but that's a major issue that's been flagged up. You know, men would talk and of course in the dating scene going out with each other, and there's a lot of confusion about you know, you know, if you go out, who should pay? Are we're going
to split the difference? And that is significant. I don't know if you want me to speak about the significance of that. And there is also a lot of women who in the church are still traditional in the expectations of men.
But sorry, I missed that part. I missed. I missed that part in the church there, Well, there's still very you said traditional.
Yes, that's.
You said. You say they're traditional, but they are traditional when it comes to who's paying this, that, and the other women have changed completely men and men are frightened to talk to women because if they don't like you, they're not going to talk to you very nicely and let you that easy. They talked to you in such a way that it's trying for the guy next time he talks to women. Masculine, very masculine.
Okay, Collettie, I'm interested to hear your kind of response to what hill to say. Is that something that you have found yourself as a single man who is on the call? Yeah?
What is it?
How is that?
How? What's your observations of this? And how are you seeing this in church?
As Swan said, the women, it's almost like that feminine woman's gone. Hardly find that feminine women. The women they come across, what's that word?
Something?
Man? What what's that word? No, there's another word the boss check. My gosh. They're very authoritative and it's not attractive. I'm on school, I'm on school. I like that feminine woman. I want listen. But when they talk to you, they don't even say excuse me, do you mind? They just come and oh you go pick. They're telling you that you're a boy, and I don't know any real man who's gonna just stand there, go Okay, where do you want it?
No?
So I think that the roles with women and men. And then some of the men help me on this one. Some of the men have it jelly back. They just accept anything coming, and I believe it's for Pea's sake, rather than argue it. The women they'll just do it. Just I'm only seeing that for a few hours.
Just do it.
I can't do that. They don't. When you're single, you're supposed to present yourself, as you know, especially if you're single, to present yourself a certain way and try some decorum. Man, the way you carry yourself, the way you talk, the way you know. So if the man's and I think that what's happening now I can talk for my church. The men are coming together and having discussions and it's really is very informative. And I like that fact because to me, I was one of them ignorant men who
didn't have a clue. And through taking time out and reading and attending certain seminars, you can see your flaws and you start to make changes. But it's like the women have started. The women are behaving like how we were and we're trying to we're getting sense, and it's like they're getting the other way. So that's just my little take on it.
Fantastic interesting, and obviously we are obviously can't generalize everybody, and this is not the case for everybody, but I guess I guess there are some patterns there that we are seeing that and as you've said, there's been lots of changes meilting yourkind of highlighting the kind of maybe with it like a commitment, but people are quite still very either quite intimate or quite committed in their actions, but maybe not in their mindsets.
Possibly, Yeah, I tell you. The problem is, I think one of the problems and one of the challenge is that you know, women from the women's movement have actually come into their own and they're making significant progress in the workplace. They are being honored that they're in terms of education, they're outstripping the men, and many of them are suggesting and indicating that they're they're finding it difficult to find men who can relate to them on the
level that they're at. And yes, there are some of them who do come over in ways that we find very offensive or put off. We're put off by that type of behavior. And sometimes I don't even think that they're being purposeful. I think that, you know, that's in the workplace, that that's who they need to be in order to progress and achieve what they're achieving, and that's become a part of their nature.
Yeah, oh okay, I agree with.
I didn't go in deep like mister Samuel, but he's right because you know what I think, because I know quite a few women who they they have done quite well, and they just have that go get it attitude and it's almost like they don't know to switch it off. It's just them, you know. Once I was watching this this it was on YouTube. I was watching this lady and she she she used the term strong black women, and she said she would use it and felt very
validated using it. But she said one day she talked one of her male friends and he said to her. She said to him, how comes you guys? You know the way you treat me. They said, you don't need no help, He said, you you always tell us about this strong black woman. You don't need us, and we don't feel like there's anything we can do to help you. And it was really sad. And then she said, she looked into it, and then she said she went and studied about feminism and what it entailed, and then she
started to take it on for herself. She said that the trend, she said, the change the way the men dealt with her. She said, this is powerful. And now she goes around teaching other women how to live in your femininity because that when you're strong, when you're trying to do that strong, the man is strong. So you don't want to mean another strong person in that sense. You want that week not weak, a vessel in the sense of weet weet, but you want that tender person complimentary.
Let's put it not there, sir.
That's why I like that. Let him know the words. Yeah, that's the right one. You ah, Jude, and you know something, And we had many discussions. I always say that when a woman cooks for a man, there's something about that food. It's not like she's the great cook, but the fact that she's prepared this food. And then I heard this lady on youtu can't whatever I name. She's a psychologist. She mentioned it yesterday. I thought, look at that. Someone
agree with me. You know, women wise, guys, collegi. But when I say a church he said, Cechi, I don't know where you get those things right, But because I'm not the qualified, probably if Samone said it, it is in stone. But when I say it, it's like, ah, it's COLLEGI. You know, we all have wisdom, and I think you're speaking some wisdom. And it doesn't matter who he comes from. As long as it's truth and it's a valid we should lean an ear and acknowledge and
acknowledge that. But here, here, I think the real question is Angela. The real question is not really to.
Blame or shame any gender doing a question is about how can we get together again?
Son asciate that with that point.
We're going to take a break. I'm going to hold that and hold that thought. Sean. We're going to take a music break here, and we're going to kind of come back and we're going to delve a little bit deeper into that question, because that's exactly what it is. And I'm really curious from the male perspective how we get it, because I guess men and women are going to view things very differently. We see things very differently, and how we approach things we can protect you very differently.
But could there be any amendment changes that actually could make things much better and much easier. So thank you for joining us. If you're just joining us, I should say welcome to Talking Points. And we've been having an interesting conversation already, so if you've missed this part, do listen back. You can listen back to our programs on spreaker dot com. We podcast all our shows and we'll
talk about relationships today. So if you've got anything to share, anything you'd like to like what you've heard so far, or disagreed with what you've heard so far because we're too interesting views there, do get in contact with us. You can email us on the studio at Adventist Radio dot London. You can send us a text on eight triple two eight write hope lead space and then add your message, or you can send us a Whatsap message on zero seven four five nine six four two eight
nine eight. So we've been talking about relationships, and initially we start off talking a little bit about friendships. And you know how men connect, and there are definite differences between men and women. We know this different type of connection. Men do have friends, there sometimes is that concept that they often don't. But maybe it's that they maybe don't
maintain those friendships in a similar kind of way. Then we've started to talk a little bit about getting to the point about getting married, but also but we want to get to that point. So before the music break, Hilton posed a question which we're going to kind of explore a little bit as well. But before we do that, we've got another guest on has joined us today. We've got Mark Sempaul back on again. Mark is one of our resident therapists. I would say, so it would be
good to thank you for joining us. Mark, I hope you're well. Definitely good to be hearing your insights into relational matters as we've been talking. So how are we today?
We're doing well. Thank you guys so much for inviting me. Thank you so much.
Sure, okay, all right, So just before the music break, Hilton posed a question we're talking about. We started to talk a little bit about I'm going to use maybe an old fashioned term dating, I guess maybe is it dating? Is it called dating these days? Or as maybe I'm saying that's my mom, I'm sounding old now or just talking and what if that means? But Hilton poss a question, really what we want to know is how do we
get together? So, Sean, you're about to make a point, and I jumped in there just so we could take a bit of a break to kind of regroup. So your thoughts on that point.
Well, as I said before, men are different, women are different. Even you said that in the beginning, Well, the guys are saying the difference with the conversation, et cetera, et cetera. Now I'm saying to you that a lot of women, no, they're not going to date a guy who's a cleaner. But a man, definitely, he doesn't care if she's a cleaner what. He's just interested in meeting somebody that he can get on and fall in love with. In general,
don't get wrong of this players out there. There's a different kind of guys who you know, they're into a different game. But most guys they don't care. But women do care what man does. And I can understand it from women's suspective in the sense of she's looking for some somebody down the line provides for her children. She wants children. She's saying, well, this guy is a better guy. I really like this guy, but he's not earning any money.
Why do you think that is.
Hmm, Well, when you listen to all the programs on a dating you hear all the women saying the same thing. I'm not dating no guy working at McDonald's. It's a regular thing. These are average girls out there. They said, no, they don't want it. You're a woman, so you should be able to give us a perspective on it more than us you are guys.
Any thoughts on that or even maybe I'll come to Mark actually to think actually from a is that something that maybe you've seen? Is that to do with society's expectations have really changed all the kinds of perception, Because Hilter, you mention something about there's often a lot of and I've seen this as well. Is it a lot on social media in terms of the idea you go out on a date, who should pay? Should you split the bill? Should you the man pay? Should the woman pay?
Yeah?
You know, so is that kind of is indicative of society in the way things have changed in that respect?
So are you talking to me or Mark?
That's a that's a question. I'm sorry, who wants to jump in?
Okay, I don't know. I don't know if Mark has something to do a muscling there, and because he's joined later, I don't know if he wants to absorb what's going on before he commenced. But these are fresh questions that are being asked. So although I wanted to delve into how do we get together despite the differences and the challenges that we have, I would respond to the question. Yes, it has been observed that women tend to date across and up, and men then to tend to date across
and down. That's general. Men tend to be attracted and innately go for people who display fertility in terms of you know, offspring, and that is usually women who are in the same age grange and younger and again want someone on the same level and also someone who is above them, you know. And I'm just that's just common ipso facto kind of empirical evidence and research evidence that we have seen. But there are things are changing, Things
are changing. There are some more women who have come to the realization, well, you know, what they want is a good man, and they will tell me that he doesn't. Really what they're looking for is someone who has ambition. He doesn't necessarily have to earn the same amount of wages. He's earning, even though if he earns less. They want someone who is ambitious, who has what is popularly known as a growth mindset, because we do know that we're
all on a journey. You know, you could be working in McDonald's and studying a PhD. You could be between jobs. What women, and rightfully so don't want to condone is someone who's stuck at a certain level when they can and should improve themselves. Yeah, that's what I would like to say, say say on those ideas that Sean has pitched out there. There are lots of women now who are who tend to think they don't have to have someone with the same credentials as they have. They don't
necessarily have to have someone who has more credentials. There are some people who recognize that they're making enough money, but they do want a certain caliber of and quality of person, someone who meets a certain certain level or certain criteria, or who is seen to be making progress in their lives. I don't know if you know your experience is different from me, Collecchi or even Pedro or Michael Byron or Mark.
I think I think where we are right now. I think women.
They I'm talking about women mainly in their fifties sixties.
I think things have changed. I think what you're talking about is more kind of younger women.
I think because women have had everything they've always wanted. Men just it's exactly how you've explained. But as they've got older and they're still on the shelf. And by the way, there really does need to be more women taking part in this kind of conversation because I kind of think so I know, there's a lot of women out there who they had a list. You know, he had to be six foot tall, good job, owned, house, owned, cart, et cetera. The years have gone by and they've had
to kind of cross those things off the list. They're now single, and I think worst of all, the very women are not very upfront and coming forward. It's still down to the mats daughter running. And I always talk about years ago, perhaps when I was in America, how if a woman likes you, she'll make that kind of move you have. You have women now what we've always had women who who they're just not making any moves. They're waiting for a guy to come and talk to
them to make that move. And they're getting older and older, and you know, I have. You know, I do a radio show and I have lots of listeners who are just single, single women, you know, because they've always had high expectations, you know, and yeah, basically they're just kind of single now.
So yeah, Byron, just to get some clarity on what you're saying, are you talking on behalf of meta mature women in their forties and fifties.
Yeah, yes, I'm saying that the.
Generally, if I look at a woman, who's who's I'm kind of really look at women in the kind of fifties and sixties because that's kind of my kind of age group, you know, I think women sometimes, Yes, it's down to personality. I'm not going to agree with so much about the kind of the guy having a the sort of status sometimes it is if you have the right kind of personality, yeah, that can canind of get
it get you through. But the point I'm ma because that women are just sitting on the shelf kind of waiting to be plucked, if you know what I mean. I know that's all right sort of terminology, but they're not making any moves. You know, the right man is going to be in the in the same environment as them, But they're gonna they're never going to kind of make no move.
They're still traditional in their approach.
Very traditional, and yeah, I think that, if I be honest, not much as change from my perspective, even as a topless of therapy is and.
So on, not much as change. I think what has change is that I think it's Barron talked about the women in the fifties and sixties. We didn't have social media at that time, and so we find now that the younger generation that have social media as speaking out and basically being bold about what the what they want. It hasn't changed because the women in the forty fifteen sixties was saying that it's just that we didn't have they didn't have social media, and so it was just
said it in the little pockets that were created. I think that when we look at it from its true aspect culturally, we also have to look at it. I grew up on three different continents. I grew up in South America, in North America, and I'm here in Europe. And basically I know in North America, if a young woman liked an individual, we would be bold about it and say this is it. But then you have the British culture and the Caribbean culture there is a little
more conservative, but it hasn't changed. It's just that people are a little more bold in saying what they want. And I think that the generation, the younger generation, is a lot more bolder. They're a lot more out there. You have the different platforms that they're out there and
they can speak their mind. But nothing really and truly has changed other than and even if you look at us as men again aage group, there are certain areas within age groups, you find that young men are a lot more passive when it comes to talking to a woman pursuing a woman, but in terms of choices in what a woman wants, and what a woman wants from a man basically is about someone that is willing to work the build. And I think that what has actually
change is the role of men in society. I think we've been talking about the women, but we haven't talked about the role of men in society. Has made that shift because of the fact that now we don't have the bread winner of the home anymore, because the women are more educated, they're making more money, they are more independent, and so the men's role has changed. And I think
as men, we haven't caught up. And I think that's the problem that we have men role in the for a forty year old, fifty year old, sixty year old, you know, they were a bad winner. Not anymore. A woman is bringing in a paycheck as much as us and even more most if you look at the people that are going into university and finishing universities and colleges are more women than young men. And the role as
men has changed. We as men have not caught up with the whole idea that basically the bread winner rule, it's phasing out. That's what I need to say.
Ma'am Mark you yeah, Oh sorry, did I jump ahead of someone?
No?
No, no, go ahead, godad Yeah.
I think Mark is onto something. I won't use the term that think that nothing has actually changed. Many things have changed, as you know, for one, the way we date, of using the term date, it has actually changed about In fact, I heard its statistics about thirty something percent of people are meeting their spouses online now through dating apps, through dating sights, through you know, so that in and of itself, at the online culture is just it's a
new culture. It's probably the last twenty forty you know, very very recent culture, and I agree that we haven't actually changed significantly, but there are lots of changes that's going around and around us, so that in itself is a total different ballgame. You mentioned, and I agree that the younger generation, they seem to be quite fine with women instigating relationship if they like you and they want to go out with you. That has changed. Byron was
speaking about the older generation. The mature generation still expecting sitting around. They're expecting to be approached, to be pursued, to be asked out, to be treated in the traditional chivalrous manner. And that is creating a problem because you know, men are not as approaching as much now as before. And the million dollar question that we need to look at, both for men and for women is what do we do, How do we bridge the divide, how do we get, like you said, Mark, how do we catch up with
what has gone what's going on? And I don't think it's an easy conversation to just, you know, flippantly say okay, well do you need to do this or that. We need some practical, pragmatic ideas to make things happen and to help people to know, well, look, this is probably what you can do. This is how we have engaged.
We need to engage and have a conversation, and this is the way that we need to progress in order for people, both young people, young adults, adults and mature people because before that they, you know, mature people were coupled up.
Now we have more and more.
Mature people who are singles who still want to be in relationship. Just weeks ago, a woman who is sixty seventy five told me that she wants to get married. You know, people in their sixties, like Byron, they do want to get married. So we still have to address the elephant in the room. How do we help these people find fulfilling relationships, both men and women.
It's difficult when you have it's difficult when you have.
Have people who are kind of mature.
They're setting their ways, they have a certain mindset in terms of with women, you know. And I don't know if it's just in my field where there is a certain mindset of black men and there's a there's a hesitance. You know, we're not seeing in a very good light and you have to jump over hoops.
You know.
So I don't know, I really don't know how you change that mindset. And I think it's a mindset thing. You know, generally we have you know, we've traditionally just had dances where people get together and you know, but that's not conducive to conversation, is it. You know, For a woman who's you know, sixty, who's set in her ways, who would like to be in a relationship, I'm not too sure where she goes, because sometimes it has to be a mindset change on her part. I think men
have been kind of burned over the years. We've taken an air lashin and and so even in the dances where I am, because I'll kind of put on events and stuff like that, you know, guys saying dance with women the way they used to because of this whole rejection thing.
So I don't know.
I think sometimes i'd like to hear. I'd like to hear from the ladies what they want from us.
You know.
Let me just let me clarify a few things when I say that nothing hasn't changed. Okay, let me give you an idea. When are people in the wind Rush generation for men for the family. You have to remember that the church, the society was more for protection, you know, the small island, and you hear all the folks talk about the small island people we need as a society come a new society coming into England, we basically form
group support groups. Even churches were support groups. Our children, their children and children's children don't need the church or these support groups anymore because these kids are not Jamaican, Trinidad, Young's, Guyanese or these children are British and so as far as they are concerned, they don't need to huddle in a church, a church, a community center or whatever it is. They can have church like how we're talking online. Okay,
things hasn't changed from that perspective. So then what has changed is that instead of as I think, if Barron just talked about a woman in our sixties, she gonna have to basically go into a community of people to find that individual to basically marry because the online online is going a little too fast for her. So for her to basically do the old style of things assessing this brother and whatever it is, you know she's gonna have to basically do that. Online is not gonna wait
for her. She gotta eat a swipe, let force wipe right and hope that what where. When I swipe right, I basically get someone good. The problem with that in terms of how this works is that anxiety moving a very fast space. The same the same rules we used to fet people is still in place. It's just that people are not basically huddling long enough. That is why we have the online dating and all these things happening, because we don't have those little pockets of community to
basically interact with each other. So we all have to do one thing. I'm busy, I just came off of work at nine o'clock in the night. If I'm a single man, where am I going to find a young woman? A woman to it at this point in time? I just I work in nine to nine time is of the efsence. So then I have to basically join the
online to basically either swipe left or swipe right. So the difference is that we don't have that community of people that basically stay tactic in different community centers, in different churches. Everybody basically is having a community in their own home. So for you to basically get to me, you're going to have to basically come to me via social media, which is in my own home. And that's how it is. So, this is what is happening to us.
Another thing that is happening is because we have a lot of men with a lot of low self esteem. Men are not in the older days, and the older guys will say men are bold and the society bold enough to basically what we've done is basically men who are bold enough to take an rejection and basically move on to the next person.
The moment.
And I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that you should have shouldn't, but listen to me, Listen to me out here. Most of us grew up with single mothers. True, Okay, a woman can only give a man, a young man how to actually real emotionally. A single mother cannot teach a young man how to think rationally. She can only do that emotionally. Okay, you need a father in the home actually show a young man how to actually think logically. No, men or brains are not created to think emotionally. We
are logical beings. Most of the young men that are presenting presenting with emotional issues. I and everybody hurting my feelings. At this pointing time, the older men didn't care about who hurt their feelings. So what we have is a generation of men. Think the Jamaican DJ put it well that he said who djits cannot operate on the same stage the same time, one will cancel out the other. A man and a woman cannot come into a home emotionally,
one cancel out the other. You need a logical person and an emotional person in the home, and the two basically create a wonderful balance. But when you have a young man behaving emotionally, thinking emotionally, and he takes a young woman in the home, they will clash.
I agree with that, But there are there are guys who grew up with their fathers, so you know, I mean, there are guys that are out there that Greek with their fathers. So obviously you're right in what you're saying about the emotional base. But I think I think there's a lot of people still today who my son is. He's what twenty twenty nine, he says he's not into the He's not he's not into the internet. He says he's definitely into the internet. He goes out, he talks
to women, he goes places, just like when I was younger. Right, his friends have found people to get married the internet, but he says, nah, I don't need to. I can talk every week man. Why they need to go on the internet for But I'll be honest with you, if I was a person who was single, I would choose the internet because number One, I just look at the person, read the profile, get in contact with them. I think it's an easier way Personally myself, I wouldn't be going
to know club. I would go to a club or a party. If I was looking for younger women, I wouldn't do it. But my son said, my son does what what I would used to do when I'm younger. He's out and about talking this, that and the other. But I look at even lots of church guys. They're at church, and to be honest with you, I'm not being rude enough enough. He I've been rude, but a lot of the women in church just not look after him.
So off they want a guy and they don't look after I know you might think I'm rude, but I'm saying a lot of women like where they used to look after themselves, make them so presentable, so they don't make them self presentable. And number two, the way they talk to the men, I'm like, nah, man, I would I go from church to church. I'm married and I'm looking at for women from my friends, and I tell him straight, I didn't see anybody in these churches. I
tell him straight, I don't see anybody. I said, maybe the odd woman i'd see or whatever that i'd recommend, But I said, I don't see them. But anyway, let me stop talking before Angela not to be on the head.
No, I'm interested in because one of my questions would be maybe later, so what can women do to support that? Because as the Hilton start off saying, the question was how do people get together? But there were a lot of factors. Because it was interesting, and thank you Byron
coming in to join the conversation. You obviously it seems to be disparao or quite a big difference between the ages, because I think earlier on in the conversation we were talking about how men are scared to talk to women, and Mark, you're talking about how men used to be a lot more bolder with approachure women. If you see something you like them, you will talk to them. As you get older, maybe that doesn't happen quite so much.
So I don't know whether I don't and I don't know what the reason is for that necessarily, but you know, I can think.
I think the reason simple angel women women have changed so much. They're better men out there, the way they talk to them, right, who are you talking to?
You just think?
You know? I went to a shop last night, Me and my friend went to a shop at the picture station. I said something to the women, and I'm thinking, typically typical this is that these new women are man you can't even you can't even be you can't be nice to them. I've been to a shop before I said something to women just just being pleasant. I'm like, boy, you know what, if I was a younger, I won't be talking to women either.
Isn't that women have changed or have changed? Or have we all changed?
I think I think what show is saying is cultial. I think women just have a expectation of men that they just like I'm very polite, so like I'll say good afternoon, and they'll look at me like I want something. They don't respect, like a man want something from them. We just can't be polite and say hey, how you're doing. It's almost like they want us to be what's the word not ghetto, like gangster. They want us to be gangster.
A lot of like a lot of women want you to be rough, but then they don't want you to be rough. They want you to be rough, but they also want you to be sensitive. They can't make up their mind what they want sometimes, and so you you, I just you could just say hello and they'll look at you like you like you stole something. You're just like, I'm just saying hello, you know, that's it, And they give you like the most illness look that you like,
why why are you gonna act like that? Even opening the door for them or something like, they won't say nothing. They just walk right past you.
You know.
They they just don't no respond, They don't respond to kindness. Sometimes that's the best way I can put it.
Women have Women have changed so much, even in the church, they have changed so much. Yeah, and I think.
Something here we need to be very careful. I don't like the man bashing and the woman bashing.
I'm not bashing, you know, I'm not bashing.
I think we're like Shna saying, I think we're just talking real.
But I think I'm not trying to bash a woman because there's plenty of good women out there.
You know, you know, Petro, Petro, you know what I think. You're just trying to be really corrected.
I'm the last one, pet Sorry, not you the other guy speaking.
Yeah, you want to if you if you want a real conversation, have a real conversation. You you look at it. Look at the most American election just finished. All the women are crying because Camilla Harris never got in. They were thinking. They weren't thinking about the bills and this, that and the other. They were thinking about abortions, this that and the other. Now you just jumped and said we're bashing. We're not bashing nobody. Would just be real if you don't want to real.
Yeah, there are women who who react where that you are speaking about, and they are women who are quite polite and decent. And the impression from on what you're saying that do you think that most women.
I'm generalizing the old women. I'm generalizing. I'm actually generalized. I'm not not all women. There are some lovely women out there, but I'm generalizing about women, and I'm being real about this. I'm being real that women really only pick up men, they never date down. And that's the real. That's real talk days.
The thing is so sure as the only one on this platform right now, would there be any should there be anything wrong with that? Because equally it's interesting you're talking about how women may speak to men. I know I've been in situations and I've really not been impressed by the way I've been approached by a man, how I've been spoken to. And I think to myself, well, actually, if I do have a standard and hold myself in high regard, et cetera, I'd like someone to match that.
So I know, I'm not going to be rude to somebody. I'll be polite on what happens. I'm just I'm just saying. So I think to myself when it's race to say women have changed, but I wonder whether we've all changed and society has created an environment that's not always conducive to good.
You've always had a section of men who were getting of course, you're always from day one, you had a certain man coming woman to you. You've always had that right. But I'm telling you, women have definitely changed in my view. And I listened to a lot of women talking. I listened to a lot of shows. I'm like, Wow, the women have really up their game. And as I said before, women in general, you'll get the odd women I'm generalizing, they're not picking up no guy that works at McDonald's.
They don't want him. Yeah, I mean they don't want him, simple as that. You could be the nicest guy talking to nice Now I don't want him. I'm thinking about my You know, this guy can't advice from this. The guy is not thinking about that.
The guys just thinking.
Boy, if I fall in love and I've seen a woman that I know, yeah, she picked up this guy from church. She wasn't doing too well for himself. She turned this guy out to be one of the greatest guys. And I look at and I said, you know what you've done really well. You know, you picked up that guy there, right, and you made him into something. And I admire her even to when I said, yeah, man, that's good, and I see, I said, look, you're on your own house, you've got no mortgage. The two of
you are doing well. She picked him up and she helped him hold him. Women, a woman don't want to do that already made already quick. One just put the water and it mixed up.
And that.
Again, is that reflective? Of our kind of fast culture and fast society. Yeah, I wonder is it's indicative all those things? Lots of factors involved in there. Anyway, I'm talking too much to let these other guys.
The challenge is how do we change that? And what advice would we would we give the women that you are speaking about. There are classes of women like that. There are other classes of women who think h the way you're thinking about men that the men like Angela said that her experience, one of the experiences that she has had, that she was turned off by the way she was being spoken to. And my question is how
do we change and what do we do? Given the We could sit here and you know, do all the analysis about you know, women and men, but.
What do we do?
How do we move forward?
You have.
Women, You need women to contribute. You can't solve that problem there. You need women to kind of answer that question.
Really, But I think in this in this instance we've got the men here talking.
I think my opinion, I think a woman. When I got ma, I was broken. My wife, like Sean said, he met, he knows of a woman. My wife lifted me up and made me a better man than I am today. I was a single. My mom raised me up till about fourteen. Then she got married. I had a stepfather. He told me how to be a man, but I still have my issues from the past and then my so I would say, like, I think it's
just a collaboration of both parties working together. So the wife, the woman doesn't put down the man, because I think a lot of times if the woman is looking at something and the man doesn't have it, she's like, why can't you have that? Then the man feels less than so always making the gentleman feel like he's even if he's working at McDonald's, he's got a job, he's doing the best he can. All right, let's he would let's move up from McDonald's to subway.
I mean, you know, like yeah, like take baby steps.
Gotta gotta gotta build gradually. It may take a while, but you gotta build gradually. You need you need a woman that's gonna uplift you, that's gonna be there for you, gonna ride or die with you. And and this is something that a woman then has to understand that sometimes she may have to I won't say subtle for less, but she's gonna have to settle for love, because I think some women don't settle for love. They like a man, he falls in love of woman. He don't care what
she has. He just loves her. Yeah, definitely, And I know Hilton is like webbing his head, so I know he's got something to say about that.
I am I saying the wrong thing, Hilton.
You can.
I agree with that point that you made that you know, we tend to just love. But similarly, there are some women. Once they love you, they love you.
Yes, right, And then that goes to where the man has to then put in the work and every reciprocal of what the woman is giving him, and not be closed off, and not be closed minded, and not be selfish and just do things. And like I'm a man, I like we have to work together. I'm the man of the house. But my wife is my partner. So I tell her what. I tell her everything. I tell her, even if it's even if I know she's gonna get mad, I tell her because that way we can both fix
the problem together. Don't try to fix everything yourself as a male. Just because you're the male, don't mean you have to fix everything yourself. Some things my wife will confer to me be like, you know what, you handle that. But then some things she'll say, hey, can I help you?
What do you need?
Like you know, like it's called constant communication. Communicationation is something that if you both do that you can make you can make it work. You can make it work no matter how much money you got, how much money you don't have. It's just you're still you're you're working together.
Suret's say something.
Yeah, what I want to say to that, you're going shot? Gone shot?
Well, well, I know of men. Yeah, when a woman lifts up a man, you do anything for her. This is what I know about men.
Men.
Men are really providers. Yeah, you've got a woman that's lifting you up. Yeah, you're doing everything for you. Just love and you think, you know what, this woman makes me feel really good and I'm going to do better for myself. That's what I know about men in general. Yeah, and it's three things that please men. I'm not going to say over the pei, but one of them is when you come through the door, the woman makes you feel like a king. Right. Food is another one, right,
and you said the third one. But I'm just saying a man would do anything for women. And that's how I know men to be the men that I know. And also, you do need a man in the house. Like the other guy said, if you if you grow up without a father. A lot of women grow up without a father and their mom's telling them things about men, and they just come and they've got a picture about a man, and that is really affecting a lot of men. They've got a lot of baggage that they come with.
And the guys thinking about, oh, what's going on. What's going on?
They see they see how the mother treats man.
Yeah, and.
You know what, I mean, what are you gonna do?
You've got that kind of baggage with a woman she's not willing to learn because her mama's trained. Look, I just said this quickly. I was in the gym the other day. Yeah, with a guy. Yeah, so he says, he goes another nationality whatever, So cracked a joke and he goes, look, I'm not marrying a black woman. He said, I've got seven seven sisters or six sisters, and the way my mam has trained them, there's no way marrying one of them. And I just started laughing, right, and
we just banged and bantered. But a lot of guys say that just the mom's upbringing, telling the daughters this, that and the other just puts men off.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would like to say a couple of points there. First of all, from a Christian centeric point of view, much of what you have and Petrow have said that the way we are created, God said, Look, it's not good for a man to be alone. Let us make for him a help meet, a helper. And so we were designed to help each other to go and develop
and you know, build together. And when we could collaborate as a team, like Petro said, despite all weaknesses, each complimenting the other, we can actually go over very far. And that's what marriage is for. You know, there's a book that recently came out called Marriage, written by this professor from Virginia University, and where he showed all the evidences from all the research that have been done over wide, over a vast number of years, all pointing to that
marriage is good for human beings. It's good for men, good for women, it's good for children, it's good for society. And yes we have dysfunctional families, Yes we have women who respond the way you you identify. But the thing is the thing is, there is a reason why they responding that way. There is a reason. Whatever the reason may be. Could be the way the parent brainwash them,
it could be the culture. However, I think deep you know, a mark I think was alluding to something like that, deep within all of us, deep within those women, deep within the men, is the desire to come together, to collaborate. The way we go about it might be counterproductive and inefficient.
The weather respond you know, from a Christian center point of view, you know, there's a there's you know, when Jesus was on the scene and he tend to you know, the song says he looks beyond our faults and sees or need. And I come back to this central question that I don't think that we're really addressing as much as we should do. How do we go? Where do we go from here? How do we progress from here?
How do we help our younger generation, the younger people who may not have had the examples of the father, or may have had their mind poisoned by their parents or their mother, the single mother, who have had bad experiences. What do we do to help us to grow and integrate? Because they yes, I'm going to let I'm going to finish off viron and then you will let you come in. We need to get the boys all trained up. We need to get the women all trained up too, And
I think the change can be had. But rather than just simply addressing the is you by saying this is how men behave, this is how women behave. This is so what what are we going to end with Angela? And how are we going to you know, those people
who are looking. One of the major issues I find you ask me, you know, what are some of the things that I'm seeing in the field is that there are lots of women in their thirties and forties, and like Byrons said, maybe even fifties and sixties who really want have a relationship, to ultimately get married and have a family. And they said that there are no men in the churches, and those who are in the churches that are the married or in some cases are not eligible.
Maybe you would say, well, they need to lord their standards. Maybe they're too picky, maybe their criterias much. But at the same time, we are sitting on what I call a ticking timebo because generally speaking, human beings weren't designed simply to be alone. Yes, bien, I've come off my soapbox.
You know what I think, despite everything that's been said, the answer is quite easy. I just think it's about mutual respect. And it might just sound like something silly, but you know, when you kind of when there is mutual respect, then you can have dialogue, you could have conversation, you know, and from you could have conversation, then you can you start to kind of, like Mummy said, move mountain, because it's quite often you find in relationships there's always this kind of battle.
Somebody has to be the sort of top dog.
You know.
Man is argued with women, women's argue with men, and then it becomes a kind of who's more intelligent and you know, and I just kind of think when you just have mutual respect and you because I would back in the day, I used to have something I used to do a sort of dating game, and I remember setting up people on dates and I'd have it in a public place and a guy might come in and says, yoh, yeah,
where she tell me where she is first? Yeah, And it's not about that because regardless of what the person looks like, it's about sitting down and having a conversation.
With somebody new, you know.
And I just kind of think if you can have that kind of dialogue with somebody, there's going to be guys who are very shy to approach women because of the you know, and there's women who well they don't see it as their role to approach guys. But from you can have that kind of that mutual kind of respect there because you have a forum like this where we can all kind of talk. And I would feel comfortable talking if there was a girls on the pedel. I know, we can just have that kind of we
can have that conversation. But in the real world, there's just too many battles going on. Somebody wants to be the top dog, and there just needs to be that kind of mutual respect.
That's all I'm saying.
You know what, in light of what Hilton said about what can we do? And this is something I've been looking at for for a long time, and I realized that the mothers in Israel, or the mothers in general in our communities, no one seemed to have taught the daughters how to be wives, how to look about your man when that time comes. It's like you just send them to school and as long as they're achieving good
grades and it's all good. Everyone's happy, But no one's looking at how does my daughter operate in terms of relationship. You know, for me personally, I had it really good with my parents. And I see my sisters. I've got three sisters and you know, two were married, were one still married. And the way she and her husband operate, it's like it's just it's just it's almost like you could sit and watch them. You know, they have their ups and downs, but they work together. Like Baron said
in that they have conversation. You know, my youngest sister, I see the attributes in her. You know, she just when she's out, she'll go and look about whether someone wants a cup of tea or someone. She's got that stuff in her. My sisters have that. And so if the mothers in Israel, would you know what some of the older women said to me, Oh, you can't talk to them. They won't listen, and they don't want to be disliked by the younger women, so they allow them.
They'll see them acting rash towards the man, or ever, they won't say nothing. So the woman, the younger woman feels that this is right. So if you don't have a guide, and as the brother said, if we have more meetings like Agi croding props, non because they've started that men's ministry. But when I talk to the women, there's no women's ministry. There's no women being held at countable because there's some women that's banger. They talk to
you anyhow, disrespectful and in their eyes it's right. But we need accountability for someone to say no, no, no, no, no, sister, the way you spoke to the brother, no, you don't do that as a woman, you know. And and some of the brothers need getting help. We're getting help too, because you know, we're coming from a long way where we we what we said back in the day, you don't matter what the woman said, what we say goes. But as we get older, you learn to navigate it differently.
But you know, so that's that's that's my perspective that there's nothing being handed down to the generations. You know, and you can see in some of the young people today is just is not good. Put it that way.
Well, I'm going to I'm going to say this here. Been in a lot of meetings over the years, especially church meetings and the question that you ask you and where do we go from here? That is a standard question that's always asked and when if anybody ever gives solutions, nothing's ever put into place. It just sounds good. And also Hill not knocking you, but even when you said that we're women bashing, you'll never get people to be real.
And if a guy can't express himself and be real about something about life in general, right, and when he said that you just want a man to play a part, yeah, this shoppy role, like oh yes, now man, men have to be real, just like what Colecchi just said and what Byron says, respect right, we just have to be real about everything and say, listen, this is how it is,
and this is why it starts. But being about real and then after when you become real, you can put some seminars on and go to different places and have a seminar. Especially like if women saying that saying that they can't find a man in church, Okay, there are more women than men in the church, one hundred percent, right, it's a man's open ball in church. He can pick
high and fire a lot easier than a woman. Right, So obviously not every woman's going to be able to get married because obviously there is not so many guys out there. Different guys are like in America, this guy's gay, this guy's in prison. In the churches, there's different kind of guys there. There's different kind of guys there that you know, I mean, they're not eligible. But there are some good guys there. There are some good guys there.
But I'd like to be I like to be on the forum and just be real and say what's really in my mind right, and you know, not be said like you know you're bashing women, because I don't bash women. I'm just real. I mean, I'm just say my piece and I I try and learn and sit in a nice way as possible. I don't want to be horrible to anybody. I don't want to be offensive, but I do want to be real about what I'm talking about
a subject. If I'm come on a show, I want to be real and said, now this is what I see. I may be wrong. Someone can correct me and say to me, now, brother, I'm this, that and the other. I've learnt something today, and be nice. I've learned somebody today. Anyway, let me stop talking, because that would have been a soapbox.
Sometimes sometimes you've got to even look at the you have to look at like I'm looking at the TV today and they was talking about the amount of men like they're talking about kind of Greg Wallerson, that the guy from that chef show.
Yeah, and this whole med too movement where.
Men can't even men can't, men can't say anything about women without being And I'm not saying all these people because you had the guy who was on the the six o'clock show, the mixed race guy who got suspended, You've got the.
So many of them are just going.
I mean, I don't know exactly what they've done, but sometimes it's about being derogatory in some way to women, you know.
And when you kind of look at the.
Whole scales which is just totally unbalanced towards men in society in general.
You know, yeah, it's.
Not just they're buying one hundred percent.
Yeah, it's.
You know, you can it's just making a lot of people kind of angrying. And sometimes you have the woman on top who's not just gonna me a hard time.
It's yeah, anyway, you know, you know what I mean.
But you're right, because even everything is about being pc. You can't look even in church today, right, someone comes in they said they're transgender. Everybody's running around frightened to say anything. Oh which toilet? Let me use the woman's one? Are we gonna let him do this one? Men can't talk no more. Men can't be men no more. That's why when was talking about men being I don't know, you said jellyback or whatever. A lot of men are
like that, and it's always they can't be men. Back in my days, my dad was so fear in the house, right. I grew up with the house and my mom. My dad tell my mom and now got that way adri it, now got that way to deer. And my dad was always right. I looked at my dad, and I've looked at and said myself, Well, my dad was sensible. He's you know, you let my mom do what she wants to do. But he says sometimes you now go got that way ardja toe right, And he wasn't. He wasn't politically.
Just spoke the truth, and men cannot speak the truth today. You say anything on anything now, oh you're you're sexist, you or this that the other you think yourself forget it. But I ain't even gonna gone say nothing because everybody's going to be offending. And all the women jumping there.
What you're saying, men are tired.
Listen, listen, I go place. So I just said myself. I'm a vocal person, and I just said myself, even me who's vocal, I said myself, this, let me choose
my battles. Man, this ain't even worth talking about. It ain't even worth talking about, because you know what, you can't be real right, and I like to go places and I like to be the guys that we can be real right, you know, even for the women are saying that men are approaching them years ago, I'm not that whistles to women, but the builders used to go to it, all right, darling. Now and they're talking about, oh,
men don't want to approach me. Of course, men don't want to approach you because you're going to report them to the police. There's so much things that you think youself, if I if I was single, if I was single, I ain't approaching nobody. I'm telling you me, and I'm vocal, Jack, I'm not approaching anybody myself. You know what. I don't want the argument, but you know, I'm like Pedro, I'm very pleasant to women. I see a woman and I said something nice to her, and it's like, man, it's
causing offense. Man, listen, let me stop talking to these women. And I'm married. I don't need a woman. I've got a wife. I'm saying, Oh, it's not even worth talking to women. Man, they're getting they're getting funny, and I'm telling you, they've really changed.
I want to pause. I want to pause there because we're going to take another music break and we're going to come back. And actually, i want to go back to Hilton's question because as much as we're talking on this platform, we're talking here on this show today, what can we what can men do to kind of get it right? Because in some ways, ununfortunately, Now again i'm not generalizing, I'm not saying that every man is like this. There are, unfortunately, men who aren't getting it right, aren't
treating women the way they should be treating they aren't speaking. Sure, it is all well and good saying keeping it real, but if you are being offensive, if you are being sexist, you are being all those things. Keeping it real is not That's not what it's about. And I'm thinking about bibical principles as well in terms of how we should treat each other. And that's really what can we do.
What can we teach our younger generation about how we treat each other, as you mentioned before, with kindness, mutual respect, all of those things. So I really want to know kind of what men can do.
I've just said, I've just said to you, Angela. Yeah, you know me, I'm talking about me. I'm pleasant to women.
No, I'm not saying I'm talking I'm talking generally.
I'm a guy that's very vocal. Our got then a sal woman and I said something pleasant to her, and I'm saying boy, and all the time I'm talking to them, and them is like, and let me stop talking to you.
I'm because they were their experience with other men could be very different, unfortunately, and again not everybody's getting it right. And unfortunately, if I say men have let the side down, there are many men have done that. So many people's experience with shape how they may respond. And I think Mark you alluded to that previously as well. So again we'll take a break. I want to come back and just sort of say, as we're coming to the the
end of the show. You know, what can we do that can help get things make things a little better. What can we be teaching each other, How can we communicate better? How can we have the mutual respect that we do that. So let's take a music break and we'll come back and we'll discuss on that. You're here listening to Talking Point. It's been a really interesting discussion. We're coming to the end, and I know we're kind of winding down, but if you're just joining us, you've
missed the whole heap. But I know we've had lots to say, and I know it's sours wine stand for a part two, So maybe we'll get these guys back on again to continue with the conversation. But we've talked a lot about relations, the ships between men and women, differences between men and women, how they connect, and what have you. But really we want to kind of get
some ideas as what we can do practically. We've noted a lot of the flaws, a lot of the things that we're not getting right, but what can we do? And as older men on this platform, i'd like to say sort of hear some ideas that you think maybe you could share with the younger generation that's coming up. As Hilton has pointed out, as the concept of dating, talking, going out with each other has changed and the way
we do it has changed over the years. But there are some probably some really basic principles and basic things that we could all do or people could do, that actually could make our relationships and our connections much more effective. So I'd like to kind of hear a few of those things that we can share with our listeners, the
things that we could do. Any ideas. I know we're not going to solve the problem in this one show, and I'd like to kind of continue the conversation at another time, but what can we do that can be quite practical that we can share. I'm also thinking about, you know, what are these sort of biblical principles that we can kind of stand by that can guide us with some of what we're doing as well, because ultimately, you know, we want to have relationships to be blessed.
We want them to be helping us develop our own spiritual lives and individuals, but also as a unit as well. So any thoughts on you know, practical We've talked a little bit about things that have happened over the years. What we've been doing in our own experiences. But what can we do that we can share that could possibly work towards making our relationships much more effective?
Am I the only one who's not in the church here?
You could be because I'm thinking the shoe and this is probably not help you in a church thing.
I'm thinking the shoe should be.
On the other foot, I think you women need to kind of start making headway because you know what you want to go and seek what you want.
You know, sometimes when you're kind of depending on the man to.
Make all the moves, and the man does this, or he doesn't do that, and so on and so forth, why do you not take it upon yourself to go and find what you want.
That's a really interesting point. And actually that's a really interesting point because in throughout a conversation that's been a bit of a conflicting point because that's, in one hand, it's not seen as the right way to go, and on the other hand, it is possibly the right way to go. So that in itself is an interesting That's an interesting point.
It's just a way to go about it.
I mean, I know it has certain connotations, but you know, really and truly the women will generally have a lot more to kind of moan about in general about men, and I just can't. I kind of think, well, go and find the man that you want, you know, sit down, go for a meal, get to know the person you know. Rather than wait for the man to come to you, you.
Go to him.
Barrons, we choose or up the opposite sex. We choose our partner to the level of emotional of what we can handle emotionally. So majority of us will choose a partner that is opposite to us, but on the same emotional level. Okay, So it means then we do not choose up or, we do not choose dom.
We choose.
So if you if someone choose, if a man choose a woman, that is chaotic and he's trying to be nice. If from a from a psychology perspective, if you actually look at him, he's just as key atic as or but reflecting horror on the opposite side. What's basic psychology when it comes to choosing individuals. Many of us wear too many different masks, and we are not true not only to ourselves but to the people that we meet, and that it creates a big problem within this dating situation.
Most of us as men need to start to heal because we want good women, but good women also and I'm good in terms of talking about the men. Good women also will want to basically make suggestions. And we don't have all the answers as men and a lot of men. The people that are coming into my therapy treatment basically a lot of guys. A lot of us,
both men and women, need to heal. We have a generally most of us don't know how to actually live with a woman in the home, and a lot of women don't know how to live with a man in the home because both will bring their situations to the home to actually and when the two clashes, we don't know how to regulate the situation. And that's basically what is happening to us in church, out of church, everywhere. What is happening is that I'm coming with my stuff,
She's coming with her stuff. When we put it together, it creates a nuclear bomb.
And by healing, and what do you mean by healing?
What I mean by healing is this most of us whenever we cannot handle emotional things, most of us don't know how to deal with our emotions. We either blow up. We either basically go quiet. We either you see personalities coming out because no one knows how to emotionally regulate. We learn how to emotionally regulate from our parents. Okay, and if mommy or daddy did not show me how to emotionally regulate, if my wife comes home angry or whatever it is, I am going to be angry too
because she can easily trigger me. We don't know how to actually deal with situations emotionally. Society become a very harsh and rude society because nobody wants to be as the Bible say, a servant. You know, everybody wants to be on top as man and woman. And we are going to do all in everything that we can to be there in a relationship and a marriage. If I win, the family loses, and if my wife wins, pop still lose.
I cannot see my wife as the enemy. And most of us in relationship and even outer relationship are coming and I'm going to shut up here now, are coming with three conceived ideas about the opposite text that was given us by our parents and society. So that's what we need to heal from.
I totally agree with you, Mark, I think as married couples or even as as single people going to a relationship. It is recognizing your faults and then you both work.
Like.
With my wife knowing her fault and not and working with us, so like not holding her against not holding it against her. I haven't like an example. I don't know if it's gonna be a good example, but like one of the things if my wife, my wife is a yeller, she elevates, if she elevates to the kids, it doesn't resonate with them. Is when I elevate my voice, they seem to they seem to what you call again, they seem to respond differently to me. So like you said,
I want to win. So I'm like, if I elevate my voice, they should still respond the same way they respond to my wife as they do to my wife.
But they don't.
So now I have to be more mindful of how I, you know, may say something to my children. And I think so that's like an emotional thing that we both have that we that we fight through because I have to realize that I have to come at it differently when I'm talking to them, because the way I talk, the way I not saying I talk to them in a mean way, just meaning like I just need to be more mindful of how I say, especially to the girls.
And because the girls are gonna respond differently, they're gonna think I'm being you know, mean or nasty, and I'm not. I'm just being more As Sean said, I'm just being more real. But sometimes real doesn't always work.
Yeah, but that sounds like it's just overthinking. Sometimes it's just overthinking.
You're not.
I'm not overthinking because if I IF I IF I, if I'm saying this to my if I'm talking to my kids, I just have to be mindful of how I say things sometimes because sometimes because I guess my voice, you know, my voice is more of a booming voice than my wife is. They're used to my wife being more of a of a loud talker, where I've always
been calmer. So when of me being calmer, the moment I go up above the calmness, it kind of scares them because they're like, oh, my goodness, like he's really mad and they don't, I know, and it's nothing I'm over thinking. I'm just saying it's just a reality. I don't agree with it, but I have to learn to accept it because no matter what I do.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't think sometimes there's no different with me where if I can't, if I have to raise my voice, then there is you know. Sometimes, yes, Mom, I was wondering when we said your wife said yellow, I was thinking it's talking about her color.
But now I have yellow.
Like I mean, like, she's from the South, She's from Alabama, so they yeah, she's like I call it a southern firecracker. She just you know, when she gets emotional, she gets she just goes up there quickly. Yeah, you know, she just goes there quickly. And they're used to that. But when I do it, they're not used to that. So they're like, oh my goodness, something's wrong. So then they kind of, you know, like like what did I do wrong?
They get very defensive. And my point is and the same thing goes with like with my wife and I talking to each other. I just think that you have to know the like I know, my wife is a certain way, so even when she may be going in that mode, I have to just be mindful of it and thinking to myself, Okay, she's going to that place, how can I get it back down? So that we can have a conversation like it's like Mark was saying, it's not about winning. Sometimes you have to take the l to get the win.
I think it's just been like that for years, where the father has been a bit more authoritative.
You know.
Yeah, yeah, you said.
We were just trying to give men an idea of what they can how they can can can because what Mark was saying about, you know, sometimes men always want to win, like we have to be on top. We always have to win, win, win, and it's not always it's not always the case. I don't think it's always about winning. You win by doing the right thing. Sometimes it's not always winning by because I'm the man of the house.
That's what That's pretty much.
What, Yeah, I understand.
Yeah, I'd like to say something about what we can do. And one of the things that came to mind while Mark was speaking is the word compassion. I think we need to have compassion with each other for the genders, and maybe it may come across as been soft, but all of us, all of us, both men and women, we have been damaged in some way, shape or form. We all have traumas that we are overcoming, and we can be triggered at any point in time, and all
of us have ways. Paul use the mark, use the term mask, but I think that it's just a way of managing what we have to deal with inside. And unfortunately, we can't see inside the person. We can't see beyond what they are displaying in terms of their words and their actions. And if we begin to understand that we are all, well the Bible, we're all sinners, but we
are all we're hurting creatures. And when we begin I have a term that I use, and I tell people that we must try and look beyond the presenting behavior and get to see because behind every action is an emotion or feeling or you know, and behind that is a need. And when we begin to have compassion for one another and to have love for one another, I tell people who are looking for spouses, you know, whether men or women, you need to begin to love them.
And I when I say love men, I'm not necessarily meaning that you should love them as romantic partners or any such thing, but begin to love them as human beings. You begin to try to think about what makes this person thick just necessarily respond orde or evaluate the person by one interaction with that person. You know, I actually tell people that the first date you go on is not the date that you need to make the decision about whether or not this person is the right person
for you. You need actually maybe two to three dates in order to begin to evaluate other aspects of the person other than what you first saw. And I think that's what we need, you know. Ellen White has a nice quote about christ method alone. He says that the Savior mingled with men as one who desired they would. And I think we need to mingle more with each other. We need to come together well, you know, Sean if some things about that. We need to begin to interact
with each other a lot more. We used to do it back in the day. Even within the churches. We used to have conventions, There were lots of youth groups. We engage with each other in terms of camps and all that. So that that was really very good. That we don't do that as much now, and we certainly don't do that as much as we get older. And I think that's one practical thing I would like to share that we need more getting together, We need more mingling.
The early Church, you know, we're talking about the early Church did a lot of that eating together in each other's homes and breaking bread together. And that's how a lot of people connected and form relationships by you know, back in the day when we used to go to senior camps, a lot of people formed relationships by simply
interacting integrating with each other on that level. My suggestion for people who are thinking, look, they can't see anybody in their local church is actually to find a putue unities to engage with other people outside their local church, in community activities, in church activities beyond the scope of the current churches that they're in. Another thing that people can do is you don't have to do it alone. You know, if you're looking for someone, you don't have
to do it alone. You could you could ask for help. You could ask for recommendation. If it's at a bit strange and people may think, oh my god. You know, I can't tell someone that I'm looking for a man or I'm looking for no but you could say, well, look, I'm looking to settle down and you know, I don't know if you if this is if it's possible that you know, you know someone who with who may fit the bill. And there are times when many people would say, oh,
you know why you're not married. Well, a good question to ask, well, do you have any recommendations? Who would do you commend? And I think those are some ideas. Of course, you can go on dating apps, and there's some adventists Christian dating apps that you can go on in Christian sides. But I think that we should start supporting the singles, the younger people, even the people of our generation that are looking for relationship because it's a
lonely world out there. There are many of us, there's never been. There are lots of people, but people are lonely and people are struggling in this area. And I think as the church and individuals, we as much as lizing of our power, can introduce people to other people and can foster an environment where people can connect and like something that I think it was Byron said that he used to put off dating, dating events or something like that. I don't know if it was speed dating
or other types of dating. While we may or may not want to do that, I think we should have events where people come together, both married and single people come together and interact with each other and form bonds. Like Paul says that we shouldn't forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is. And I think that's where I want to leave it. If people want to have a conversation with me, get in touch with me, and I'll be delighted to support them on their journey.
Yeah, I mean, thank you Hilton so much for that. Everybody.
How would people get in contact with emailson?
Yeah?
Oh yes, I do want to cy called God wants you're married dot com. You can even email me at god once you're married at gmail dot com and you can speak with Angela and Pedro and get my details. I don't know if I'm allowed to give my number out, but I'm happy to speak with anyone who have that kind of need.
You moan and welcome to.
All right. My number is zero seven nine zero three three one seven four to six. Again that's zero seven nine zero three three one seven four to six. And and and if you're listening and you do want some support in that area, yeah, let's talk.
Thank you. He'll sim any other final thoughts from any of our pannels today about.
Two minutes, so you got to keep it about thirty seconds each.
Waits A Part two.
We're definitely, We're definitely gonna we're gonna have to get back and have another part too, because just definitely could go on for another two hours for sure.
Yeah, I mean again.
You always say, but we really are going to do it this time.
There we do.
I meant done that. So as we winded down, I want to thank you all for being on our show today. It's been a really interesting discussion. It's been interesting for me to hear the male perspective. And you know, Barron, you said something, actually, a lot of this it really is about us coming together because it's not no man as an island. And at the end of the day, God has created us to be, you know, a community
to be together. So working together, speaking together, communicating is going to be key to a lot of these things and having really effective relationships. But ultimately, we want to give everything over to God and to guide us. And you know, the Bible is full of the principles that we can look to to create good partnerships, good relationships,
good connections. So with that in mind, Nelson, would you mind praying praying for us to close and you know, for those who are who are out there seeking I pray that you will be putting your request to God. He knows what you need and knows what you want, and I pray that He will bless you with that. So my prime verstalize that would be great.
All right, let's pray, Oh their father God, we thank you for the conversation that we've had and the men on this platform who have mainly possible to exchange ideas and concepts, some of which we disagree lock choms with, but many of us see that there is a greater need both within our community or society, or the men
and the women. And we know that you are very much aware of the challenges that we have, the issues that are going down and each individual here, those of us who are married, we ask you, Lord, to that you will divinely help us as we try to raise children, minister to each other's need, and those who are not who we ask you, Lord, that you would give them the desires of your heart. And it is quite a challenge.
It's quite a challenge. As a mark indicated that there are many of us who are hurting and eat level and we wear a mask and when we get triggered, we don't know how to regulate that Preyer that the Holy Spirit would move through and be with each person where they're at and empower them to rise above the
base man and become more loving and tolerable. Help us to have compassion, Help us to have the love even when we get a response from someone that that jolds us, that that robs us the wrong way, May we have the love that Christ has and that looks beyond the
presenting behavior and respond in love. Bless This radio show may continue to minister to people across the internet, across the radio and may Angela and the other host, Petro and all the others, May they continue and to give up themselves and their talents to help out us in Jesus' name. Amen, people, thank.
You so much, and once again I want to thank all of you Sean Coletchi Byron Mark and Hilton for being on our show today. Definitely, as the Petro said, we will have a part two. We'd love to have you back on again to share your thoughts. You've been listening to Talking Point, It's been an interesting one and we come to the end of our Men's month. We're winding down towards the end of the year, so we'll be doing a bit of a recap a few shows, maybe about looking back at some of the shows that
we've done. I've had some really interesting conversations with people, have some interesting stories. So I hope you'll stick with Talking Point, and I pray that you will all have a rest, good rest of the evening and blessings for the weak ahead. It's been Talking Point. I'll see you again, Adventist Radio, London.
Inspiration for the song