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Good evening, good evening, good evening and welcome to talking Points. We're here on Adventage Radio London and I'm thanking you for joining us this Sabbath evening. I hope you've had a good sabbath whatever you've been doing, Where have you been, and that you're glad that you've joined us, and hopefully you're looking forward to the conversation just like we are as usual. I'm joined by my Christy co hosts. I've got Senya and Petro. How are you both?
I am well, good evening to our listeners, leaving to our guess leading to you both. Ah, goodness, Where does the time go?
Two days ago?
Yeah?
Yeah, it's it's did you ask for my week words? Or how I am?
And how's the weekend?
How is your weekend?
And we okay, hectic a lot. I'm trying to cram in before I hibernate winter, so meeting up with friends and trying to get everybody you know situated and all the housekeeping and all that stuff done. But yeah, busy week, but productive, and I'm grateful for an opportunity to meet again and talk about another really important topic.
How about you.
I'm good, good, good evening, everybody, a second afternoon, Good evening, everybody, Welcome to talking point. My week has been, uh crazy because uh with my poor daughter. She fresh she broke her foot, then she had surgery on her finger, and now she has to wear a brace for like the next four weeks with her hand kind of cupped because attendant. So now she has to wear she has to wear this brace for like and do these hand exercises and stuff and so poort things. She just got over the
brooken foot. Now she's got a hert hand and so I'm just hoping she gets you know well, And but that's not it for us. And in terms of work, is always as busy, very event very enlightening. Meet a lot of different types of people and have good conversations with them, learn different views and just the way people think. It is good to especially not from being from from here. It's good to get to learn other people's views and
stuff like that I would never think about. So he has been it's been a pretty good week.
Oh and how are you guys coping with the I mean, it's funny you said good afterning, good evening. It really does feel like evening evening now.
Because of the because of that, yeah, because of the time.
And we are in that season where it's getting dark from very air lips. So yeah, that's been interesting and I think that's kind of thrown me slightly off this week.
You're getting used to that, but you know, yeah, I did that to my son because my son was off this week, and he was like, oh, can I go out and hang on some friends. I was like, yeah, sure. I was like, well, just come home at son. You know when remember you say come home when the light comes on when? So he was like, well, Dad, that's like four thirty. And I was like, wait four thirty. I was like, oh, you're right. I forgot. That's like
I'm thinking in my head five thirty six. You know, come home like when the sun is starting to go down. He was like, with d that's like at four thirty. I was like, oh wow, Like I just don't even realize it anymore. I think we get so wrapped up and just doing our regular routine that you don't even I'm out all day, so I see the sun come up and I see the sun go down, So it doesn't my days all mixed up.
I just forget what they are most times.
Yeah, no, I hear that.
I hear that.
But we've made it through another week. So yeah, here we are. And as Senia said, we've got a couple of guests with us today, so we're going to introduce them shortly. And it's actually the start of November. We're on to another month already, another another month, I should say, and yeah, we're getting closer to twenty twenty five. But we're in the month of November, and traditionally, and from
terms of awareness days, it's our Men's month. There's a big campaign called November that's nationally recognized that it's looking at men's health, best physical and mental health. So we've kind of jumped on that bandwagon and we're doing our men's months as well. So for the month of November, our shows are going to be dedicated to our men. And this week we've got two men on USh, two guests who play a big part in I guess the lives of men for our church. So we'll be listen
meeting Devin Boyd and Leslie Douglas. So we're going to say quick hello to them. How are you both, and thank you for joining us. Hello, don't be shy, now, don't be shy.
Yeah, I'm fine, Thank you, good, good.
Thank you for joining us. And Leslie, how are you?
Good evening, Angela and good evening, Pego and Zena. I'm well. Thank you for the privilege of being here. It's really nice and I appreciate that. So yeah, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I can't complain. I'll be wrong to complain considering other people are going through.
So yeah, so thank you for joining us, appreciate that and looking forward to the conversation we're going to have with you guys today as usual. If you want to join in the conversation and connect with us, please do get in touch. We'd love to hear you Europeans and your thoughts as well. You can either email us at studio at Advantage Radio dot London, or you can what's appers on zero or plus four four zero sorry zero seven four five nine six four two eight nine eight.
We can text us on eight triple two eight, write hope, leave a space and then write your message. Definitely, I would love to hear from You've got any thoughts on the conversation that we're having or any ideas around we were talking about men's ministry today. Do let us know. Do you get in contact? So we're going to get started. So to start off, we're going to ask our God to come into our presence and to join us on
our show today. So let's pray. Oh my God, I want to thank you for blessing us with a wonderful daily Lord, and I thank you for the privilege of being on this in this space, on this platform that we can share a word, share a message, and talk about things that are pertinent to people that are listening. I pray, Dear Lord, that as we have this conversation today, that you will indeed bless it. And Dear Lord, it's
an important topic important people within our communities. Dear Lord, and I pray that the work that's been done that you continue to bless it. If you bless everybody that's involved, And thank you for hearing and answering, and de Lord, please bless your show. This is my prayer.
Amen. Amen.
So, as I said, I mentioned this is November and It's, like I said, traditionally our men's months, so what better way to start it off is to really find out what's happening within our church, and we have, I said, as you've met very briefly Devon Boyd and Leslie Douglas, who are representing our men's ministry. Devon is our men's ministry leader for the SEC. I'm going to let him introduce himself a little bit more shortly, but I guess we'll be thinking about Men's Month. It's interesting we do
a lot of them on the show. We do a lot of awareness raising kind of type of programs and often be kind of talking about themes and topics so sometimes aren't always discussed in church. Now there are men within our church, but sometimes I have to admit that I don't necessarily always know what's happening specifically for the men. I would often hear, and maybe it's just because I'm female.
We'll hear about a lot of work going on for women's ministries and some of the other departments as well, but sometimes men's ministry I don't really.
Hear that much.
And now that could just be me, and I'll hold my hands up to that, but I don't know if it's as I'm sort say, I don't know if it's as kind of i'most going to say, well known, well received, or documented, or it's something that happens in all churches. And now, Xenia and Pedro, is that just me? Or would you say that's the case for yourselves? And that could just be me.
Only the answer.
I think I have.
I have a similar perspective to you. I'm a female, so I mainly maybe I just pay attention more to what's going on for the women, and I'm not as aware of what's going on for our men. So yeah, maybe I should be putting my hand up as well. But hopefully Pedro you have a different perspective. So so waiting to hear your thoughts on it.
Okay, well my thoughts are I think when it comes to men, we discount men. I'm not saying that right, No, we' we not discount them. We've It's like Mother's Day, Mother's Day. Everybody remembers Mother's Day, but on father's days, like you almost forget the father's day even come around, even like birthdays, like you know in this mother's birthday and it's the woman's birthday.
It's like, oh, it's my birthday.
Is a birthday, but when the fun like, oh it's just your birthday, like you know, we get like the ties, but the mother gets you know, flowers and candies.
And you know. I'm just being real, you know.
And I think as men, we just like me as a male, like I for me personally as a male, it doesn't bother me because I just feel like, long as I know I'm doing my job is raising my kids and being as one with my wife and raising our household the right ray, I don't need all the like other But I'm not a big holiday or like celebration type of person anyway, So I'm not you know, I don't. I just feel like I just want to
I like to be like in the shadow. I just like to do what I need to do and no fanfare, no you know, accolades or nothing.
I just want to do what I gotta do and just keep moving along.
So sorry to cut you going, no, no, no.
Go ahead.
What're just gonna say?
Well, I was just wondering if that's if that's the crux of the matter, then that our men just get on with it.
I think most men don't.
Why Yeah, most men don't voice their opinion, don't voice that it may bother them, even voice that hey help out us, because I won't speak for other men. I'm just speaking for myself because I don't know, I don't always know other men, you know, think in that sense.
I just think that we just it's been it's such a generational thing where we just are just kind of just forgotten about sometimes, you know, even even with our mental health, even with our well being sometimes because men are not supposed to be, you know, soft for men are not supposed to need help. Men are not supposed to you know, We're supposed to be the walk were
supposed to be the foundation of the marriage. We're supposed to be the ones that, you know, when things are going wrong, we're supposed to be to want to pick it up and set it straight, get it right. So lot of times we don't get that, we don't get looked at that way because we're not supposed to be that way.
And I just think that you know.
What I'm saying, you sure, yeah, yeah, I.
Don't know what.
I don't know what Leslie or Devin may say. They may tell they may say the total the opposite of what I'm saying, I don't you know, but I'm just me, just me personally. I just feel That's how I feel sometimes when it comes to, you know, one last thing, when a man, when I met one last thing, when a man does speak up, or whenever a man does say something, then we're complaining.
We're whining. You know, what's soft? You know where babies? You know?
Stop complaining, you know, stop what's your problem? You got it easy, like you know, you know. Like so it's like it's a double sl we we're we're dawned if we I'm gonna say, Dawn, were dawn if you do if you do it, and we're dawn if you don't. Pretty much like we we're like walk on a hard place. We don't know which race as we just put their head down and keep going.
Interesting.
Okay, so we've got mixed thoughts on this, So I guess I'm going to hand over to our experts as it were.
I'm not an expert. Let's just make that clear.
I say that in the sense of you know, I'm not you know. So over to Devon and Leslie. So, firstly, again, thank you so much for joining us today. But just a little bit of get a bit of for us our listeners. Get a bit of a background about yourselves as well. Your name's may be familiar to some people for many who it's not, So what's up with Devon? Just introduce yourself, tellus a little bit about yourself and what you do and how you got into what you do as well.
Okay, yeah, I'm Devon. Yeah. People call me p w P.
I don't want it.
And the reason why they called me, well, one of my colleagues at work they call me p w P. They called me pastor without portfolio. You know, that's what he calls me because he sees me as looking after being pastoring for all the men in the in the
conference and stuff. Because that's what I do. I like to to minister to men, to look after men too, to help men when they're going through stuff, and support any programs if I can, or if we can possible, because there is many, many programs and they all want you there, but we can't get you know, sometimes there's five or six programs in one one sabbath and I can't get We can't, especially me. I can't get to all of them. I can only get to one indeed,
and that's why it texts. Like you just said earlier, it takes a lot, you know, to get me on here. It's because I'm busy.
I appreciate that. This is why I appreciate I can testify that this is a very busy gentleman, but get him. But you know, it's so good.
I do love this ministry, even though there are some low points where sometimes you know, when you do something, less men comes. And I don't know why less men want don't want to come to some of these events because they all say yeah, yeah, yeah at the beginning, and then when it comes to the crunch, you know, they don't turn up sometimes. And that's with women, you know, they just go. They just go to the events. It doesn't matter if they have ten children or five children
or two children. They will make a way to go to the event. And men, we think they're you know, what's important? Is this event important? Or fixing the car is important? But they don't see as mental health as important. You know, sometimes we need to get away from things that we do every day and just join up with other men and have this conversation fellowship and what they were. So I love this ministry. How I got into this ministry.
Wow, you're the starting the conference Men's Ministry coordinated.
Yes, And how I got into this ministry? Well, first, I yeah, as I said, I'm Devil Boyd and I also do prison worship. I love music, I do present worship in a different way, and I also speak, I tried to. Anyway, I'm an elder better see as well. I'm married, I have two children, a wonderful wife was singing evangelist Michelle, and I have two boys, Noah and Isaiah.
And.
I work in the subce But I'm not going to say what deypartment because everybody be on the phone. But yeah, so that's what I do. And the Ministry of Men's Ministry. How I got in It's kind of a long story, but I was trying to cut it short. So basically, when I got when I got the call from the Secretary of the President saying I got email sorry and saying you know you need to call. We need to talk to you. And I spoke and they said they sent me an email asking requested me to be the
Men's Ministry coordinator. And I couldn't believe it, but I didn't know if it was from the Lord. So I did a test. You know, I like to test God sometimes, And so I said, Lord, if this is for me, this is what I need you to do, right, I need to have read people phone in me or something just to confirm and THEEDS free confirmation to confirm that this is from you. And I went to sleep. And you know when they say be careful what you pray for, you get what I'm saying. So so, so I went
to sleep. Then six o'clock in the morning, one pastor called me and said congratulations. I said, congratulations for what? Did I wear a new suit or did I get a new suit or whatever it?
What is it?
And they said, are you know your men's ministry coordinator one of my elder is going to be the men's ministry coordinator for the self inn conference. I said, the news hasn't even gone out yet. Time even said yes, and he said yeah. But I said, how did you know? I said, don't worry, I know a congratulations, I say thanks. So I got to go, and Pastor, I want to
go back to sleep to go to work. I went back and then another phone call, and then another phone call, then congratulations, and I said, Lord, you said it wo get me even though the president the president at the time, he said to me, you know, why are you not saying yes? I said, I just need confirmation. I can't just say yes, right, this is this is a serious ministry for men I'm coming from. So I couldn't say just you know, I need the confirmation from God. And
I've got the confirmation. He said, yes, so fur the present back and I'm so glad that he gave me time to get the confirmation and to think about it. And another thing is I have to ask my family. I believe if you don't ask your family for backing, you're finished. You get me. So you need to ask your family for back in, which I did, and my children say, yes, dam yes, we can go places.
We go here and there.
And then yes, but you need that kind of you know. Even though I got confirmation, I had to ask my wife and children that's okay with them, because because at the end of the day, especially when you take up this kind of post, you're not going to be around much. You get me, You're traveling all over the place. Your family might not come with you. So I had to get that confirmation and tell them that we're doing a lot of traveling et cetera, et cetera, and yes, and
the rest of history, I'm still doing it. I love the ministry and I've got good, great, great co workers like Leslie and Basil. And I'll tell you this, like the like the Three Hebrew Boys, if you don't have good company, m yeah, because I always talk about the company that you travel with, and they always delight minded. You might you know, you won't get anywhere in life. You need to have that good company with you. Especially men. They need to have someone that's like minded so they
can talk, they can you know, cry, whatever. So I thank God for Leslie, and I thank God for Basil.
To you Lynn, oh, thank you so similarly, Leslie, tell us a little bit about yourself. Okay, yeah, what were you doing? Also how you got involved in mine?
It's not as colorful as Devon, but my name is les Douglas. I attended Croydon Church. I have one wonderful wife who sings in the gospel. Quite got as blessed with her singing voice. I got involved in ends ministry probably about twelve years ago. When I first I won't say first, but lets when I first started going to Croydon. I'm not Adventist by a background. I'm a Pentecostal, so my background was it was different and still after all
these years, still adjusting to some things. I think Petri touched on a lot of it, but it won't go there because we'll need two hours just for that.
The part too. We always say this last year.
Yes, so yeah, so a ten Quoyd and I have been involved in Men's Ministry from time i've been there, been the leader at one point, now acting as a secretary. I think for me, why I believe Meningitry supported, it's a forum that I believe the best people to understand men are men. And when you can relate to someone who have those lived experience, who can understand, who think the same kind of way you do, they're that same
men from Mars women for Venus kind of thing. One helps your mental health that you think, okay, so it's not just me. Two, you can relate to people who understand you you're feeling as a man, I can't understand. I can sympathize with how women feels, but I can't understand because I'm not a woman. Mm hmmm, So I need a man who can understand exactly where you're coming from not you know, so I think that's important and we can share experiences, we can learn from each other,
and I think it's about iron sharpening iron. I would say, oh.
And that's that's a text that I think. I'm trying to think that that text is from that I actould look it up and yes, yeah, yeah, so that's definitely yeah, that's I've seen that written in Actually, when I was looking at the page on the SEC website about Men's Ministry, that's the text is there. So tell me a little bit about then, kind of an overview of your men's ministry and what it sort of main's mission and goals. Are you touched a little bit on that?
Okay? To me that our main mission is to reach out to our men, to have a forum whereby we can come together to encourage, to enlighten, to support, and to kick each other. And I say that in the sense of when we're going in the right that wrong direction, sometimes we don't need a talk, we need a kick and have men strong enough to say, Okay, this is
not a talking business. This is a kicking business though, to deal with, because sometimes we can be hard headed when we need a kicking, you know, in the nicest possible way. But it's about keeping it real. Yeah, I think that's really important because I think, yeah, I think it's important. I think it's more so for me. It's about nurturing, it's about building, it's about being able to understand that a good leader, particularly in the home, is one who's who knows when to be led. So yeah, yeah,
and I'm still learning. I get a lot of things wrong and I'm still learning. And I think that's what it is. It's it's a production line where you're constantly churning and you're learning, and you're you know, and you may have to revisit a few times before it actually sits in because we can be hard headed. But the point is you're in the right place to get the right things for that you need, as opposed to being in the wrong place.
Thank you for that. So definitely, I mean less he's talking from and it's I guess it's talking I know he works with you and your team as well, but also from a local church level. Is that similar sort of thought process in terms of from a global then from a conference wide perspective?
Yes, it is, as as Leslie said, you know the other I think with usked with the vision. We have a vision called m I c C. I think it's called m i CC if I got it right. Men. So men has to reach men so it will meet so men in the church and the community MCC. So what the vision we have is men reaching men, That's what because that's the I think that's the best thing that around for men to do. The men can only reach men. Young men can only reach young men, do you know what I mean? So this is what the
vision that we have. But this year and my other vision is that, as Leslie said, we need to learn to look after each other as men when we're going through stuff. So it's a book that I used I read back in school called Off minde Some Men, And you know, I think the characters was George and Leny. Right. One was a bit you know, had a bit of a mental issue. You know, he wasn't really a good thinker. And the other one was he would look after all
the situations. But one has a problem. The one who's strong and you know, will step in and help his friend. And and there's a phrase that they use in Off Mind Some Men, And the phrase that I always tried to tell the men is I've got you to look after me, and you got me to look after you. So basically we have to learn to look after each other.
You get me no matter what happens. So so so if we're stuck somewhere, because I always tell men, testify in church wherever you are your story, not only when you're good, but also when you're not in a good situation I'm coming from, because you can help someone else. And so, just to tell a little story that was told in the way I'm talking about, is a young man fall in a hole. He fell in this hole and he didn't know how to get He tried to
get out and he couldn't get out. So he's screaming for help, help, help, help, And a lawyer walks by. And a lawyer walks by, and here's the help, and he's and he and here's the scream and here's the help. And he said, Okay, throw some some money down in the hole, and he tells the He tells the young man, by yourself a letterer. So the young man goes, my, ham, I'm gonna buy myself a letter when I'm down in the hole, and he throws this mine. So he continues
to scream, help, help, help, and the priest walks by. Okay, but I'm going to call this priete. A seventh day event is past away, So this seven day event is pasted. Two walks by, here's the the young man crying for help. Niel's done next to the hole and praise. And then when he finished praying, he said, seeing church next Sabbath walks up, and then another young so he continues, help, help, help, and a younger young man walks by. He there's the
cry for help and jumps in the hole. And the guy goes goes, why did you jump in the hole? Why did you jump in that hole? Now we're both stuck in here, and the young man says, I've been in this hole before I found the way out. I jumped in the hole so I can show you the way out. Meaning if we both help each other out in whatever situation we're in, and the one person knows the way out, he can help the other person go out of that. I'm saying this, that's deep, and so
that's what I'm saying. We we as men, you know, we need to help each other in any situation we can, and even if we know the way out, because if we testify and people hear it in church or I hear it in the community, and they're in that same situation, you can have a wonderful conversation, Okay, showing your way out. That's one of the visions that we have.
I have a question on tw that. Sorry I said I had a question. I had a question.
I had a thought on to that in today's generation. In today's generation, the journation that we are now, how hard is it to get a young man to listen? Because I find it as as you know, like they say the ogs will be considered like the ogs. They don't respect the ogs like they used to, and we, you know, we can tell them how we like.
I don't know what it is like.
I have three small kids who are sixteen, fourteen, and ten, and I have a sixteen year old.
He's the boy.
When I tell him something, I would say to them like if I'm telling you, if I'm asking you a question, I already know the answer to it. I'm just asking you to see if you're gonna tell me the truth or tell me what you're really going through. Do you find it hard sometimes with the younger with the younger men, the young of the boys to get them to listen. I mean that's with like jumping in the hole to get them back out, Like we'll jump in and say I'm in here with you to show you how to
get out, but then getting them to listen. How you know, how hard is that? And I hate I don't be like devil advocate, I just because I find that very I find that because like, just like you guys, I was listening to you guys, it was so funny, like my ministry is hit my marriage podcast, and my wife is also a singer. So I was just laughing when you both said my wife is a singer. I'm into
the men's ministry. My ministry is like towards married men and trying to, you know, help married men with their marriage. But I find sometimes when you tell people things, even though you've been through those things, it's just getting them to to to listen to like to comprehend. Do you find that difficult sometimes? I guess that would be mine.
Okay for me, I'm not sure what Leslie was gonna say, sorry, But for me, my relationship must started with my son. For example, when I have a relationship with when I had the relationship with him. It's how you act and it's what you tell them in your relationship from when they were born. You get I'm going from and when you have that kind of relationship. This is funny because my son brought me just you know, it's going is at union now, but he brought me something and it
says something about good leadership or something like that. So I thought, so I asked him and I spotted him by it, and he said, the reason why I brought you this bought because I think that you have been a good leader to me and I'm going to take that what you've taught me with me while I'm at UNIQ. Yeah, and it's because we have that relationship from the beginning. Okay, I have a relationship where you know, if you know,
you do things together, you know, fix things together. And then when you achieve that, you are high five that sort of thing, and and you hug your son no matter how tall they are, no matter you are, kiss everything, and you tell them you like you have that you have that kind of relationship with them. Once you get that relationship, they will tell you anything. It just depends what kind of relations relationship is important. You know what I mean? When God has a relationship with us, or
we have a relationship with him. It depends how the relationship is going. If you keep everything a secret, you're not having a good relationship. You've got to somehow, you know, have that you know, like a like for example, you have like a you come on from church, what do you do? You will go to your separate rooms and watch your you know, the iPad or or whatever. Or you sit as your family play a game you get me, or watch your film together. You know, that's what we
do on Saturday night. We watch a film together, we play games or whatever. You get me. This is that kind of relationship. And you know I always say I'm going to win all the time. They all love me, you know, because I never win anywhere. But I just dropped that in you know what I mean. Or we talk about the other day, I spoke at a church and I had to talk about men's health. And I'm thinking, how am I going to do? What am I going to talk about men's health in the Bible? Wait, I'm
searching about men's health. But when I have a conversation with my son, I text my son and we have a conversation about it. He's eighteen. I have a conversation with him, that is the kind of relationship we have, and he will say, oh, that's interesting, and then he'll come up with something I so yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you put it all together, I had a sermon yeah, because I have that relationship with my son, because I realized now that whatever happens, he will talk to me
about anything. Now outside that. With the young people at church, when I was speaking up front, they don't like fake ness.
No they don't.
If you're fake, they ain't talking to you. It's what you do. They will see you get I'm coming from. So if you're doing this, they will say, okay, boy, you're fake.
I'm going to go somewhere else.
That you have to have. So wherever I go and I speak, a lot of young people come up to me and they want to talk to me because they don't have that conversation that they have with the family. There's something wrong. So we have to try our best as men, because young people are looking up to us in church right they have no ways, they're looking at
us as role models. And if we're not doing the right thing in church, they will find somewhere else to go or someone will say I'll give you a pair of trainers to do something for me, and they will go that way, or they will look at somewhere else, they will look at someone else to If we can't get the answer in the church, because there is no one to talk to, we have to have the patience and the time to sit down and listen to them because we're not the older men are not getting in stressed.
Young people are going through stress as well. The problem is they have no one to talk to where they're going to go, so they go outside.
Your sorry, go carry on a delay here. I was just wondering, are you are you targeting a specific age in your events and your your focus or does everyone come together in the events, come together in the meetings from the eighteen year old to the eighteen year old. How how do you kind of streamline that to get our young men talking to our young men, or even our young men talking to our elders.
When we do events, I try to target from eighteen to upwards. Okay, but it's very difficult, so you have to do separate programs sometimes, and then when you do the separate programs, then there's a day you joined them together.
But It's interesting when I had the last when I went to Wilsdon's Men's Men's retreat, because it's interesting that a young man just went up to the front because he wanted to say something, and I thought, wow, no one forced him, but it's probably the relationship he has with the leader and he was able to go up the front and say what he feels about what was happening in this retreat. And I thought, Wow, for a young man to do that, it's amazing, do you know
what I mean? And sometimes I feel sometimes we need to change the way we because you know, after COVID, we need to we should change the way we do things. But we've gone back to doing the things that we used to do before COVID, do you know what I mean? Definitely, because we've got people come into the church after COVID,
and we keep going back. You know, when we have our church, we have all this long list in the booklet of how you know divine service And before we were talking about this we should change, which is changed at the end of we haven't really changed. We've just gone back to our old ways.
Yeah, we love tradition.
Yeah, I was just about to say tradition tradition.
That's that's we We fell prey to that, just like other denominations before pray to being traditional, and we need to stop. Do we need to be able to think outside the back Sometimes you do.
Have to because even with afternoon programs. So I don't know if Leslie agrees with me, I don't mind bather study. We should have Baba study. I don't mind those sorts of things. But the afternoon program was really for young people. I was saying to walk past her. The afternoon program should be for young people and they should be the one running it.
Well, isn't it called a y Yeah, which is what.
Society right. So what I'm saying, right, they should be able to do those sort of programs, right. But what happens is that because the young people, there's no young people they have Bible study, or there is young people, but they're still going ahead with Bible study. And then where are the young people to go to Bible study? They're not interesting. And I'm not saying that Bible study
is wrong. All I'm saying is sometimes we need to get young people to say, look, I want to talk about this, because at the end of the day, when they step out of the church. They're facing the worldwide.
When they finish school, they're going to UNI, They're facing, you know, what's happening outside, and we're not teaching them how to behave outside, or to sort out the budget, or to how to you know, we're not doing those conversations or the birds and the bees so so so so they now will find a conversation outside, and the thing about church right with come to faintness. Some of them will say to me, and I'm telling you the truth because I don't know, you know, if you know,
they say. Sometimes some of them say, when I reach eighteen and they go to UNI, as the song says, they're free at last, free at last because nothing is happening inside.
I totally agree with you on that, but I think especially if they go away, like I'm from Bermuda, Yeah, growing up in New York, and I always think about this, like a lot of the kids that I went to I went to church, I went to Northeastern and Great New York and New York and behind and I will say seventy percent of my classmates are no longer adventors or not even practicing seven being seven inventors once they hit uni.
They flew the coop. They just like you said, free and lives.
They just they were just biding their time and so they can get out the house. And once they get out the house and they got to taste of the outside, because they didn't get that, you know it, they just totally left.
And some have left and come back. I left and came back.
But I totally, I totally get what you're saying, because I think we'll back on a little bit what you're saying because I think about that. I think transparency is the most important thing, and I think it works even not with junk people, works with older people too, because as me being fifty, if I'm looking at somebody talking and he's talking a bunch of like I call it a use cast salesman, I don't I tune out. Even at fifty, I'll tune out. I won't listen because I'm like,
he's not being real. Like you can tell when somebody's being genuine and when somebody's just up there talking to just talk, you know, if they're talking and they say, oh, if you know, if you do it, if you buy this book for nineteen ninety nine, I can show you the way you're like, as soon as they do that, I shut down.
I'm like, oh, nope, you know, like he's my money.
Like, I don't know why this is my thinking, but I I totally agree with what you were saying about with and reaching the different demographics are men.
Yeah, and well I'll let Leslie talk because I'm talking too much.
Yeah, yeah, I was.
I was going to say, you know, for me, a lot of devins of this true. I think there's two words I'd probably use. One would be relationship and the second one would be intentional. And I think with our young people, you cannot give advice. I wanted to talk with young people. If you don't have a relationship with them, they're just not going to want to know. Number one. I think what has helped me it's been part of
Pathfinders because you're working with that group. And what I found my personal experience was before, prior to being in Pathfinders, you will see them, you say hello, and they may say hello to you. But what I found being in Pathfinders now they will come and say hello and make it a habit to make sure they're come and say hello to me. And people will come and say loo
to me. That I weren't even having those conversation with before, simply because sitting in a class with them in path Finders, going on camp with them, and having a different kind of relationship with him outside of church. They remember that. I remember one guy who doesn't even go to our church, but he comes to our Pathfinders and after camp meeting we had the camp it finished was at church one day and all I heard it was less less when I looked around it with him and he was introducing
me to his family. They don't go to church. I was with him today actually going through some stuff with him. And what that does is that builds bonds and relationship because what I tend to do is try to find something we have in common. And nine times out of ten it's sports, since either football. So I have banter with them. There's a fewer support Man's City for your arsenal, So I'm always telling them that if you be, I'm going to bury you. Know, I'm going to burry you.
So we have this all the time, this banter. And you know, some of the directors said to lest you can't say that, but I'm going to I'm going to bury him, bury him. So we have this banter and then when they misbehave, I'll be chasing him like a kid around it. But I'm going to kep and I catch up going to bury, you know. So we have this banter and and because of that, it builds a bond. So now when I come and have a conversation with them,
they intend to listen. They intend to listen. And it's the same thing now being part of the teen's ministry. You build relationships with people. You know, we have meetings every Wednesday by the stead of Wednesday, so you have so when you do see them now and you have a conversation with them, you know, and they's say two things like oh yeah, not too bad. You know, I have a bad week bla blah blah blah. Don't say I pray for you free for them right there, and
then they appreciate that so much. Sometimes they'll be like, what pray now, because well, yeah, we're at church and we why why delay? And you'd be surprised that one little thing they remember that, and that could be they're cracking the door that you're looking for. So it's about building relationship and being intentional about things, you know, going out his way and saying how are you doing? You know, even in talking their friend just and I think that's
what's important. And when they see that, then they'll start slowly opening up. And I think one of the challenges we have as older folks is that we weren't probably taught how to do that by our parents. And what we have to do is teach ourselves, you know, so
that we have those skills. And that's something I learned from my mum, that what she did was understood her generation, where she came from, but also understood where I'm coming from as a child, and like Christ did meet you at the point of your need, where you're at, not where you should be, but where you're at. And that's what my mom did with me and something I learned with my children. I've got children who are in their thirties now, and even now, they still want their time
with me. If I've not been with them for a time and we talk a lot, if I've not physically been with them anything. It's like my daughter Dad was what's go on in? What's guan in? When I hear that, I know what that means. And if I go and spend time with her and Michael hears that, it's like he's on the fight, what's going on? Where's my time?
And I've had that from since there were children, and even now the adults they still want that because you've built and they'll talk to me about things that we did when they were younger that I've forgotten about. So it's relationships and it's really important. And when you sit down and talk to people about their interest, not just what you want to get across to them, but talk about what they want to talk about. Because when you constantly talk about things you want to tell them, all
they see you as is like a headmaster. You're not interested in them. You're just interested in them in that they do that they're not causing any problems. So it's like a tree. You want to get rid of the tree than go to the route. You're going to the branches, cutting the branches, and they wonder why is it still growing? So they want to talk about things that interest them, and you know, and they'll talk language and it's like,
well it's different. I don't understand what they're saying different, And I asked them and they'll laugh at me, and we have this banter.
You know.
I remember one year I said, and they asked me, aless, I'm old to you, and I told them they're like, okay, Karen and teaching the class. About two minutes later, one of them said to me, uncles, did you know Moses because and that's their way telling me you're old man. So we have this banter, and you've be surprised how something as simple as that goes to what sort of things they enjoy doing outside of church, what sort of
the school? And when your intentional about them, they will come and talk to you about things they really do. So it's about relationship and being the intention about it. Those are the two words I would probably.
Say before if I ask another question. There's something important that Leslie said which I always like to say that young you know us men older men to be a role model, we have to be involved in something that they do, and I didn't. I'm still trying to get why men don't want to do part Finders. I'm still trying to get that into my head because there are a lot of young men or young boys in parth Finders, and most of the people that are doing counselors or
or or master guides or leaders there. Most of our ladies. There's hardly any men. And for us to have that relationship with young people, we've got to be involved in some of the stuff they do. And one of them is Pathfinders. And I'm telling you, if you're in path Finders, you get you know, I'm in part Finders. I'm teaching my class. And men they give you they call your uncle, as he said, you call uncle. They give you enough respect, you know what I mean, because you're there with them.
And that's that's that's that's what.
Yeah, it's really important. I mean I had important one student who went to on holiday one summer to America, and she came back and she said, Macha, let's I got you something. I'm like, really, and she brought me a tie and the clature to match with it. And that touched me. It really touched me because once she didn't have to do it. But more importantly, why he touched me was that it made me realize that while she was away on holiday in a different country, she was
still thinking about it. That's right, and and that was just so powerful, so powerful. Now and she's introduced to her friend, so I now know her friends and they come and say hello, and it just goes and goes
and goes, and it's so important. And that's all that through pathfinders because you're with them in a time for them at camp, you're going through different things with them, learning different things, you know, and and it just it just builds that bonds and it's really it's really good and I think, you know, it's a shame that we don't have more men in it, but it's just a way that you can learn to to to relate to them.
You have to relate to them on terms that they can understand, you know, and that they're comfortable with, and allow them to just say A to you. That's all they want to say. When they're ready to say B, they will say that. But just give them that space.
And I think it's with that relationship when they grow older, they'll be able to talk to you about anything. And that's the that's the topic, you know, because what they are looking for role models. We're supposed to be role models.
That's why a lot of them join gangs and things because they're looking for something that they can call a family if you like, you know, they want to fit in, they want to be feel important, they want to feel that they're seen and not just heard, that they're seen in a way of I know you, how are you doing. Let's have a chat that they're seen acknowledged. You know.
Yeah, yeah, it's ironic that you both were talking about that. Angela.
I'm gonna get you for a minute, because I was just telling my wife that because I grew up in Pathfinders and as I got older, we just the churches I went to just and have it, and we don't have path finders up here really in some of the churches. But I was just saying to my wife that, you know what, because we look at the move and I was like, we moove, we need to move like near a church that has Pathfinders because I want our children to start going to Pathfinders, because I think, like what
you said, it is just a it's growing up. I was in a church school all day Monday through Friday, church on Saber for this Sunday, I was in Pathfinders. I develop a big, strong relationship with a lot of people because I saw them seven days a week, like minded teenagers, like minded children.
You know that we can all fall back on.
We have our rep sessions on Saturday evenings after a y, we have a social and it just helped us to navigate through things that we was all going through, you know. And to your other point about I think when we talk to young people and even to adults, I think it's a matter of.
When we talk.
It's more also about what I use in marriage term active listening, where we listen, because a lot of times young people have a tendency to shut down because if we're doing all the talking, or we're not letting them tell us what they feel and actually listening to what they feel and taking it in. They can recognize that too, and they say, well, he's act like he's listening, but he's not really listening. So they kind of shut down, and then they don't tell us what they really are,
what they really are thinking. And then with that not judging them or not saying to them, hey, you know, why would you do that? You know, how could you be like, you know, like just listening to them and say, Okay, how can we work this out? What can we do to make you do better next time?
You know?
So I think that's a big important part. And with you guys, with your ministry and how you deal with men and stuff is just listening to them and then like giving ideas or just help them navigate through what they what problems they're going through. So that's what I got from just listening to you guys. I'm sorry, it was just on my mind. But definitely path find the thing that path find the thing is definitely is definitely a point that is well taken because we need we
need more of that because it definitely builds character. And you know, do they still do the well, you know, you get the badges and stuff with the yes, Okay, yes, it's been so long.
I don't I can't listen.
Such with pride. I even teased them when they've got more than me, I'm like, listen, we need to make a deal here. You've got more than me. How can we what can we do swap here? How these fun things with them and encourage them and oh yeah the woodland, how to how to do six points of knowing how to set up a tent? Yeah, I remember, I remember it all like a point. It's really good. I've learned a lot from it, learned a lot learned with them, So that's really good. But yeah, yeah.
Okay, Well we'll take a break there and then we're going to come back to just hear a little bit more about the types of programs that you do. And I love that said, the fact that you were saying talking about that it's relational and intentional, because I guess in your planning a lot of that will have to come into that, you know, to know people know what's
going to connect, help them connect. So we'll take a break there for some music, and then when we come back, we'll have a little bit more about what.
I've heard, thousands of stories of wood, thank you, why.
The tenders wistfuls of in the dead of the light agy.
Town that you will please them and never.
You're a bod faure.
And I love.
It's wife.
It's wine.
In the world.
See many searching for hands ay, so right by time we are searching for ans that only you can reflat you.
What we need before me say you because you want to.
Good your fun?
Sure, sure, And I'm looking bits White's white.
Because of.
You are.
Un deniable. His hardest began to be so on the next final I just all this thing as you call me, did it will still as you call me. Indeed you will still as you're calling me. Indeed it was still into us.
Because you're a good God.
It's sure, sure, and I'm looking by.
It's it's.
People.
Love, it's who, it's who you're up. It's who you're up, and I'm a love by.
It's rue, it's where.
It's okay. So we're back with our show. Thank you for that for to So we are starting our Men's
month month of November. How we're here already and we've been having a conversation about some men's issues, but what we're looking at this month this show is our men's ministry within our church and we have got a SEC so I think the conference men's coordinator Devin Boyd and Logie does legacy lead Douglas Here's from Croydon but also part of Devon's team, and we're just kind of talking a little bit about men's ministry, why it's important and the kind of things that they make a big part
of that. And so far we've been talking about relationship building being keeping it real, making connections being really important, and we were just talking before if you didn't catch the show, but just joining us, we're just talking about especially how you can make the connections between maybe the young and old or different people within your communities in
your groups. So all I wanted to find out is kind of some of the activities that you put on and the events that you put on to kind of foster those relationships as well as a conference wide as well, because I'm sure there's there's similarities or things that kind of cross over. But what I wanted to ask, actually, do you find devon that there are men's ministry teams throughout our churches? Do most churches have a men's ministry department?
Arms and larger churches or the small church or does it really depend on how many men are within the church or what do you generally find as you go around.
Well, now this year there's there's a bit more men's ministry popping up in different churches, which is great news. It's not I don't think there's enough, But it depends on how many men's in in in their churches, because some churches don't have any. Yeah, and they don't have any you know, and they don't even have a a men's department or anything. So I encourage, I try to encourage those churches especially that even if you don't have something,
do something. You get I'm coming from. And so even if they just sit together and say, Okay, let's do this this this quarter. You know, they don't have and someone takes that on. They don't have to be leaders for the whole year. They're just doing an event for men only. So do something for men, because what happens in our church is is that we go to church and we we see each other. On the Sabbath, we go to church, we see each other, and then we forget about each other for the rest of the week.
And also so I feel like not only doing events, but contact each other throughout the week because you never know if someone is sick, because someone is you know, COVID was really, you know, really one of the bird things that happen in this country, right, And I was thinking to myself, you know, when they told us that we are not allowed to go out, and I'm thinking to myself, I was, you know, there are ladies probably
in the same situation, but for men. There might be some men living on their own and I have no one but the four walls to talk to, do you know what I mean? And you know they could, so that's where, you know, I don't know where we're gonna have that conversation. But real men Real Talk came alive because of that.
Yeah, real men, real talk. What's that?
Oh? Sorry, real men. Real talk is a it's a yeah, thank you, a platform for men to come and just talk, right, just talk about anything, any issues, any men's issues that they are right. Ladies sometimes do come up and we have to, you know, asked them to exit. You know, there's no room in the inn for you, you know what I mean, No matter what God over, a few
come with. There's only three kings, not queens anyway, right, Yeah, so there's just men coming to talk about any issues I don't have, and real men, real talk about That's how it was born because when we had that problem of COVID, I just sat there with you know, Basilan, just I sat there and I said, you know, what can we do for men to not feel alone in the desert? And so we thought off this platform and we tested it because you know, in the past, men
don't like, you know, going to events or whatever. So we just did a test run and about thirty men came on. Oh and so I said to the men when we finished, I said, do you want this to continue? And I said yes, So, so how frequently to continue? So they said it every week. I said, okay, So we had a difficult job of finding speakers, you know,
topics et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it's been a blessing and telling you some of the things, the topics that we talked about or some of the presentation has been a blessing. Even even one where less men came was cooking. We did one cooking where men can teach how you can cook salmon and all that, and less men came. So I don't know why.
Interesting And that's really interesting that you have this because I know and this has been an ongoing discussion and debate within our team in terms of, you know, there's this is something that men should get together and do. And for one long time I hadn't realized this is a program that you had been running and it had started from then, and it was always often on the
back of you know, as women. I mean, our show is called Talking Point, so we like to talk, we'd like to discuss what have you, But we sometimes find that sometimes that men don't speak. But sometimes they don't and I don't always want to get involved. And you know, it's often said that men sometimes struggle to open up a back their personal issues, things they're going through. So it's almost surprising that something like this would be that
popular because of that. However, it seems that actually is a popular thing. Some that you've been running for that amount of time and you obviously getting people who are coming in to speak and to share and to open up, and it's something that they obviously want. I mean, was that a surprise for you on.
That in that perspective? From that perspective, well, it was.
It was a surprise. It was surprised we've got but you know, it wasn't. Wasn't because you know, for example, I thought, oh yeah we can, we can get a hundred men. We could. You know, we get one hundred men everywhere every time, but not one hundred men turn up. Yeah, sometimes there's fifteen. And this is where you know, you feel a bit down. This is what me I'm going to tell you the truth. Right, I'm opening up. Sometimes I feel down when there's like seven men or nine men.
But when you've got men like Leslie or or or Basil or someone else, they encourage you to just keep going no matter how many turn out. Because this program is important for men to have a conversation about anything, you know what I mean, men come on and all of a sudden, you know, just just now. For a few weeks, we're just having we've just been having prayer because there are men out there that need prayer. They we we we've been requesting men, what do you want
to pray for? And some of the things they I'm surprised that they want prayer for, and we've been praying for them. And sometimes the prayer takes up the whole of the program because men need prayer, Hm, you get me, because they might not get prayer for anybody else, but they need prayer and and and and prayer for specific things. And that's what we've been doing. Uh and and it's and afterwards, you know, you hear men saying thank you
so much. I really needed that because at the end of the day, they have no one else to turn to, you know, they have no one else to turn to. And that's the thing that we need to talk about. Who when they're going through stuff, where they where should they go? You know, what signposts they can go to? Where can we sign post them to to get help?
I mean, the thing is, there are there are places and they are see, but is the challenge actually getting them to seek help or seek support, or to actually turn to someone to try and talk to. And I say that because I think we were talking affair that actually sometimes sometimes men may think they're okay, even tho they're maybe going through stuff and they're having ongoing challenges.
Society unfortunately has kind of and I think it's getting better, but there is a society view that men need to be the strong ones and to suck it up, and they can't show any vulnerability, you know, they can't, you know, there's things may be seen as a sign of weakness. But and Devin, you mentioned this as as song you to kind of go back to that mentioned a little bit about in terms of, you know, the phrase it's okay not to be okay. That's not always That's not
a message that many men sometimes be. I think it's getting better, and I think with you know, more conversation just about mental health, you know, even if the challenges life, et cetera, those things are maybe coming a bit more to the forefront. But for a lot of men, that's not the message that they're hearing, and that's not what the expectation maybe.
Is of them.
I mean, do you find do you find that is that something that maybe comes up in when you're having these.
When I spoke at Yes, I said on men's health, the first thing I said to when I was speaking was that when we talk about men's health, we always talk about prostate cancer, We'll talk about high blood pressure or whatever it is, but we never say anything about men's mental health. We don't have that conversation and all the you know, and you can you hear the men saying, yeah, that's you know. And then that's when I came in with it's okay not to be okay because we come
with the front. But we might when we get home, we might be I'm not saying it's happening, but we could be abused by our wives or or we might have debt problems or or and we don't even talk to anybody about it. We can't even talk to our wives about.
It, or or.
We have we have a problems relationship with our children that we haven't spoken for a long time, and all that kind of stuff. Or even going to church, it's difficult. They don't want to go to church because there's someone in church that they don't like, or they just don't. One man said to me, you know, after COVID, he said something like, you know, I'm still believing God, but the church and they don't come, do you know what
I mean? These are sort of the things that meant going through trauma, you know, and we don't talk about it. But all we talk about is postrac And I'm not saying postract councer is not important. I'm not saying that. But the mind, huh. To me, it's important because you've got, you know, you to have that peace of mind. And the only way you've got to get that piece of mind is that you've got to get to the source
to sort up that peace of mind. And thank God that we have God to give us even though we're going through problems. We pray and we get that piece of mind. The people who don't have God are going through the storm, right, But at least we have that peace of mind. That's what I think. And men are struggling in churches, but we're not hearing anything. They don't want to talk about it because they feel ashamed because
of being of a man. They are shamed. You know, we always sing about some don't be a shame of the gospel, but they're shamed of telling other us about their problems. You got I'm coming from. And so we you know, we need men who are you know, are able to talk about this kind of issue, right, even counselors. We have counselors in our churches, but some men don't
want to talk to the counselors in our churches. I'm telling you the truth, right, they don't want to even talk to them because they're still part of the organization, but they will talk outside, right, you get me. So I just feel that we need someone that, you know, when we do when we talk, when we have Men's Day or anything like that, Let's talk more about mental health, m right, because if we don't, some of our men will commit suicide or we'll go somewhere else if we
don't talk about it, they're going to do. After the program, all of the men just came up and they're just so they were so thankful that we could talk about mental health instead Aposta cancer.
All the time.
I'm not saying it's not important. I'm not doing wrong. I'm not saying we should get ourselves checked out. All that kind of stuff that is important. We are supposed to get ourselves checked out, but we also need to check out our minds.
I mean interesting, it should really be a holistic. It should really be holic, you know, looking at all aspects. Yeah, definitely mental health and.
Even young men are suffering that way.
Have you got programs that are because I'm hearing you talk about some of the issues that you are facing, either putting on events or getting persons, not necessarily putting on events, but getting our men to attend these events. Do you try to do analysis is not the word. Maybe just put out feelers or ask or kind of get an understanding of where our men are. What are the topics that they really wanted to hear about? Because you're saying some are more attended or better attendant than others.
I mean, I don't know if our men feel like cooking is reserved for the women. I thought that was long I philosophy, that's strong being buried. But maybe that's what our men feel that. You know, our women are the ones responsible so that they don't have to hone their skills. But but are their particular topics that you've figured out are more are more useful men men are
more in tune with? And are those the ones that perhaps those are the ones you put put on most maybe tag on the cooking at the end of that, so they're already in the building, they already you know, you've already got their attention, and then you tag on the other ones. What I'm trying to find out is, if you're sourcing out, what are some of the major issues, some of the major topics that our men are looking for?
And I salute you. I'm sure my my my co hosts know my passion for mental health, particularly as it concerns our men. The statistics are just overwhelming there, they're gray, they're bleak, their dismal concerning our men, and and the fact that they don't speak, so many suffering silence, and obviously, as you've mentioned, so many of them just decide that
enough's enough and they take their own lives. So on top of having a focus on mental health, what are some of the other issues that you find are more well attended or more well received?
One question?
I think what I find from a local level. I mean, we've got a new leader who's got some really great initiatives, and we last month we had men's breakfasts, so they will come have a breakfast have a presentation and have a time where we can just come together, have somebody to eat and chat and et cetera, et cetera. And I think that band is really good. We've had a social as well where that helps.
And I think so other men and the men are more responsive responsive.
If there's food, they're more food. And if it's social, because what do you what you find? And one of the main I think one of the main it's not the only one, one of the main differences I think with men and women opening up is that if you set a forum, women was just run to that. With guys, it's either in a barbershop, if there's an event going on where they can focus on playing this or doing something, then they'll start opening up. But if the focus is
just that, they're reluctant to open up. They need to feel comfortable. And I think with us there's a trust element. So for example, i'd say something to you and I hear that from someone else, I ain't trusting you ever again, that's it, You've done. That's how we are. And it's the same attitude we have in our relationship with I tell my wife something and that comes back to me. That's it, I don't. I'm not saying anything more. That's it.
So in that respect, that's why it's challenging, very difficult to get people to open up, because you.
Have to have.
A time where people can feel comfortable, feel safe that's probably the best word. Where they feel safe and feel that what is being said one is not going to be used against them. Two, they're not going to be looked at differently, and three most importantly, it ends where they are. It doesn't come out of here. And I think if you can capture all of those, then for me, that's a recipe to success.
Yes, with your with your I mean, I really love how you've put that. With your zoom That's what I'm assuming here. Is it a zoom zoom setting, a zoom platform that you do thee All.
Right, So we have every Friday, we have a zoom platform where we have Bible study. And it's not always Bible study. A lot of the times it's just prayer. And sometimes we have Bible studies so I may say, okay, we're going to study Revelation or Ephesian or something. So we have that every Friday. Then out of that came guys who wanted a bit more so we have prayer Mondays and Wednesdays, so that came out of that. We also have so within So those are the two actives that have run all the time.
So that the one you said that was both in COVID or for our talk.
Yeah, that zoom, that's national. Yeah, so that's that wasn't on a local level. That's a national level, but on a local level. Those are the sort of things. So we have every Friday and Monday and Thursday, not Wednesday, Monday and Thursday. Yeah, prayer. We also have what we are starting now is that every month we have one meeting on zoom and one meeting together okay physically in the building, physical in the building, and then we have social So those are the three things that are happening
every months. And so the meeting face to face meeting. So the next one is on the tenth of November and the theme is how to be a good husband and how to be a good father. So we'll have devotion, we'll have that for half an hour thirty five minutes, then we'll have lunch. Then the leader will then do a presentation and then we'll have a time together.
And that's that.
So those are the sort of things we've put in place. And from that, what he's put together is a survey, and a survey we'd look at the number of things in terms of what ministry you're comently involved in, what MEANSTRM would you like to get involved in, what would you like to see happen in the industry, those sort of things, and they'll fill out that survey that will come back. Based on that, we'll then look at how
we what programs are put in place. So one of the initiatives we want to do is which we used to do, is one we want to start doing a saber squad lesson with the shuttings, okay, and the other thing we wanted to start doing that we had stopped prior to COVID. We got these jackets. We've got jackets and T shirts and stuff, and what we used to do.
We used to go out and sort of do people's gardens, do little dio wire around people's homes, and particularly elderly we used to shove all the snow from their front so they can come out quite safely, and things like that. So those are sort of things we used to do. And one initiative we want to start back doing again. So things like that we used to do, we started, Well, it's in plan for us to start in a new year to do those things.
And just one more question, and Jia, was when you spoke of particular churches that are either too small or don't have men in numbers, isn't it possible for them to merge or to come across or to pop in. So what you're doing, Leslie, isn't exclusively for your church, or you'll come unity if if someone is near enough or excited enough they can they can join.
Yeah. Yeah, we invited the neighborhood churches and let them now put that out because it's not just for the churches, for the community as well. We try to do the community and the local churches within the vicinity we come along. Yeah.
And that to me that because he's reaching the community. I've always said right that we as men, we should try and reach the community as well. And I had one idea which was which the church did try to represent. But the ball turn it down was men like to talk in a barber shop. You get me. Men will talk when you got to barbershop, right, men talk, I'm serious. They talk about cricket, They talk about the West Indies or they used to play and they don't play it
no more. They talk about they just talk in the barber shop. So I suggested, why don't we have a barber shop, even if it's just a quarterly barbershop, right, something that can cut hair, invite the community. And that's when men will start talking. And the difference is you'll have clean music mm hmm. Right, you have clean air because sometimes a barber shop, you know, they're smoking weed or whatever. So you have that, you have clean air,
and you have clean conversations. Yeah, and even if you put e a TV, it will be a clean you know what I mean, because when you got the barber shop is different. But when you when you have in a in a Christian sense, you have you know, you probably have gospel music out there or something like that so people can watch it. All I'm saying is that when men, you know, like barbershop, men can talk. Men
talk and then talk about anything. And also what I like about another thing like is you know when we have these gatherings, you know, you if gatherings have to be frequent, not too frequent, but it's continually because men get bored very quickly, right, and if it's not for example, if you have it once and it doesn't happen again next time you put it on, they just you know,
forget it, you know what I mean. So it has to be like a continuous like every quarter or something, and then you know more men will will come and join. And let's not only doate for the men in the church, but let's do it also for the men in the community. Because of this is why I'm saying this is because I went to one program. I went to one program because that's what we're do in men Ministry this year, we've been helping with finances with other churches programs. Right.
So I went to one program where the person decided to invite men left the church. So he sent out invitations for all the men that left the church to come to an event, right, And it was a fellows men's fellowship. And they didn't do it in the church. They did it in the school because they didn't want it in the church atmosphere. And when I went about thirty five men came and all they did was we didn't put on because you know what we do sometimes we bring the church to the event. The program I'm
talking about. They didn't do none of that. They just came chat. Never see each other for a long time.
How you doing?
You know that kind conversation? Men, There was an old all an an old call tea in a car, were sitting outside and the men looking at it. It was nice and clean and shut. It was really nice, I'm telling you. And you know we talk about you know, the car, the engine, you know, and you know when you see folks. And then out of that they said at the end of it, they said, you know what we should do because it was one particular church, They said we should all go to do a service in
the morning at that church. And they all said, yes, no problem. They left church, you know, so we didn't have to tell them about church because they know it. If we did that, they're gone, they're not there, don't want to know. We had a different kind of conversation, and I think that was the brilliant way of of bringing men that used to We're not talking about members in the church. We're talking about used to because they haven't been there for years, got invitation and bring them
to come and talk with each other about anything. And you can see some of them, you know, they're health wise, they're healthy. They're not so healthy that they were before or or you know, they might be going through divorce or whatever. But it was good to see them. Good to see people that I used to sing with, and now they're going to put on an event which is brilliant. And then they had that WhatsApp group, you know, WhatsApp group for men I think should be because I don't
like this. You know, these forward messages we get black you know, from China and it reaches us. You know, I look it full in this message. I don't like them. The WhatsApp group for men I think should be the man puts on there and say, look, I'm having financially difficult Can you pray for me? Or I need five men to come and help me in the garden, you know what I mean. That's what the WhatsApp group should be for that kind of conversation, you know what I mean,
not these forward messages. You know, once I see them, I'm out, you know what I mean. But when I see that kind of conversation and then they say, oh yeah I'll be able to get there, Oh yeah I'll be there. Oh yeah, I've got a car. I can help you carry the you know that sort of thing, or I can help you with the garden, or there's a domino competition down the bottom of the road. In our church. Come come and they say, oh yeah, we
come in. Make sure you bring a supermode. This is the kind of conversation I love to see and hear, you know what I mean, And so that is important. I think these kind of gatherings from men. That's why I like when you go to football or you go to apartment and you see all these men. It's not about the drinking, right, It's about the gathering, and it's about the talking. And also, you know, we should you know, the hugging. You know, we love you. We're there for you.
You know, if we find it hard to say love to our children, our sons, how can we say we love someone else?
You know.
So this is all the things that we should be grasping. You should we should be doing reaching out to our men because they just need that little you know, that smile can go a long way you get mean, and the thing is right when they come, When they come, we don't have to say oh, you know, because we do that in church. Sometimes when people leave church and they come back. I tell you know, you know, I tell you you know you shouldn't leave it. No, we don't need to do that. Man, we have to have
a different kind of conversation. Just don't saying, because silence is golden. That's why I love the story about the prodigal son. When he came home, the father didn't say anything. He just gave him a hug. Because he came home. We don't have to say I tell you you should have got out there and spend your money or whatever.
He came home. And what I learned about that story is that we as Christians or as fathers, should tell you say to my son, no matter how far you've been, no matter how far you've gone right, no matter if you squander your work or you went to university and he decided to give up halfway, the door is always open for you to come back home. That's what I learned the story from the prodigal son. The door is always open for you to come back home. So these
folks they want to come back home. The question is is the door open?
And also who maybe have left, but also there's new people who are seeking and looking for a community.
That's correct.
And what I like about what you're saying there in terms of the gathering, but also the practicalities of some of it as well, in terms of utilizing skills like going gardening or doing DIY. It's things that they can practically help which actually then gives the opportunity to meet to connect as well.
Yeah, definitely, So yeah, it's you know the men. You know, men they need a purpose in life. They need a goal in life, you know what I mean. And if they've got no goal, they've got no purpose in life, you know what I mean. And that's why you know one in my presentation, men, you need purpose in life. What is your purpose? What are you going to do in five years time? What you're going to do? What is your goal? You've got no goal? What are you here? You know what I mean?
We need that.
Men need that sign of thing, and they need other men to help them push them to that goal, to work together and not be stagnant. And we become lazy, you know, we start blaming, We start you know, you know, because someone else is doing we don't do it, especially ladies. When the ladies are doing something. Why am I about ladies when they're doing something when you should be the one doing it.
But as you and as you're saying that, I guess that's also because I guess that's a message that you are trying to put across. How can sort of, you know, we and I say, the real way, in terms of families, friends, women, the church, how can we really support our men effectively? Because actually sometimes and you mentioned something that Leslie mentioned earlier, sometimes you come together to talk to ship. But some
of this a bit of a kick. But how can we kind of effectively do that kind of from the outside. I'm not a man, so I don't necessarily understand the struggle that you go through, the things what have you.
But I want to encourage, I want to support. How can I do that effectively that actually might make a difference to kind of us shure or encourage them to get involved in stuff, do more activities, you know, or try and find the purpose or you know, reach out to seek help and support, to make lifestyle changes or to do different things. What can what could I do that's going to really make a difference and be effective?
I think I think two thing comes to me when I hear that. One inclusion, because I think sometimes what tends to happen is women are doing something and they have all their female friends that do all the planning, all the preparations. We're not involved in that. We're just there to rrge heavy stuff. That's not inclusion. And I don't particularly like being part of that because I think I've made all the arrangs. Well I can't be part of that arrangement. What about my thoughts?
What am I?
You know, we're not so we just you cant bring the drinks, you can bring the heavy stuff, you can do. It's really so that's not including for me. Purpose Yeah, purpose again, you know what's my purpose here? Is that is that it just to carry the heavy stuff. I can't think to give ideas and think like that. So that's important inclusion. I think the other thing is talking
to people and not to pack people. I think the perception is I think some for me, I think sometimes it's that we're stone, we don't bleed, And it's like there's a song that the heritage singer says, no, not heritage, just what's his name, can't think of them, it says, he says. Someone says sometimes I heard, And that's deep for me because I think sometimes we don't think that men hurt. We do hurt. We may not show it,
but it doesn't mean we're not hurt. And I think a lot of that stems from the stigma of what we're expected to be. We're expected to be someone who don't show emotions. We're expected to be this tough person, and if we do show emotions, you need to man up. So there's a number of challenges that are there, and I think it's how we can navigate those, and some of us don't have that skill set to navigate that.
That's the reality of it. Some of us don't. We don't know how to deal with that, so we only deal with it the way we know how to deal with it, which is not necessarily the best way. So it's either withdrawal, we don't say anything, going to our own space because we don't see value where our value is. And I think things like that, just being cousins of that factor, I think that's really important. I think, yeah,
value is really important. But I think on a whole, I think in a lot of ways we are worst on enemies really because I think that we there's a saying you got if you keep crying and crying and nothing's wrong when something's actually wrong, no one's going to believe you. And I think we've been our worst enemies over the years in terms of how we have behaved and how we have conducted ourselves. And I think the society we're in now that's now been twisted around and
in a lot of ways held against us. But also I think there's an attitude of not wanting to let go because women have held onto it and have run with it and it's worked, and they don't want to let it go because they're fearful that if I give it to you, you're not going to continue it. So
there's that. So there's a number of things, and I think there needs to be coming together and understanding that God made man and God made women and there's a beauty in that separateness that if they can only work together and come together, they will see the overall beauty that God intended. And I think sometimes guys are trying to be are trying to make women to be men, and women are trying to make in other words, oh,
I don't do it that way. Well, you're not a man, so you won't do it that way, you know, and vice versa, and things like that. And accepting people for who they are, and that means everything how they do things. For example, just because for me, different doesn't mean wrong. It simply means different. Yeah, because you don't go into a restaurant and say, oh, how did you cut the rice? So why are you mun about our und cooking the rice? You know what I'm saying. Just simple things like that.
And it's allowing people to do things and not feeling that you have to give instructions all the time. No, make him do something, leave him. So I think there's a number of things, but on a whole, I think it's like I see, it's not different what women wants. They want to be valued, they want to be respected, they want to be acknowledged, they want to feel part of We're not different. We're not different. We may go back in a different way and you may have the
perception that we don't, but it's not that. It's because we feel we have to have this hard exterior because if we're not protecting ourselves, we're going to be roller coasted. So yeah, I think there's I think there's just a lot of communication and understanding that needs to take place. I mean, I still haven't got it right, and but I can see the beauty in what God is trying to do, but I can't. I struggle to put that into practice. How do I how what does that look
like in the day to day base? How do I relate that?
You know?
Sometimes you can say okay, I can see how you can fly that plane, but then put me in a copy. It's a different ballgame, you know what I mean. So it's about how do you make that a reality? What does that look like? You know? It's like you say to people, how are you doing? Oh I'm okay, and I'm almos saying peoplehen they said, okay, so what does okay look like? Because okay, I'm mean nothing to me. What does that mean? You know? So I said, okay,
so what does okay look like? And just that simple question opens up because what people say to you is that I'm interested because I can say, oh, hey, happy to sab how are you doing? I don't really want it. I'm just saying happy Sabbath, you know what I'm saying. But when I say, oh, so what does okay look like?
They're like, oh, okay, and start thought okay. And then when you see him next time, he said, oh, you know, we had a chat to have that I was praying for you about that and they're like really, and it stills little windows that cracks that opens up wider and it may take time, but you have to be patient. And that's why it's used to the word the intention.
You have to be intentional because for some people, some people get on board straight away, some people standing in the back Grandchester to see how things are going before they get on board. And some people well know, will not get on board. But it's how you persuade people and how you bring people on it's important. That's the I think that's the key. More different, It's like a captain of a cricket team. Everybody is different and he's got to know how to get the best art teedation
in one of them. One way works with one person, but men at work with another person. You know, I can say to one person, come on, man, store it out and that's all he needs. Another person, I mean, but my mom's around this, and man what that means. Yeah, So it's understanding. It's like management. You have to know your audience, who you dealing with, and not what it needs to motivate each individual person to get the overall beauty of it. And that's that's that's a not an easy thing to do.
Because again with that as well, it's also I think and then how we have to maybe adapt and change in yeah, because it's.
Not about just them, it's about you as well and how you received it and are you hearing what they're saying or are you hearing something else? And sometimes we have to be honest enough and say I hear you, but I don't know how to but I will find out or I know on that and not feel that you have to answer everything and if you don't have an answer, that you're not valued. Yeah, you know, I think it's brave when you can say I don't know,
but I'm happy to find out and get back to you. Yeah, And I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's.
App on to that, Devin.
Really, I mean, nass.
Very well.
Well, said Leslie.
You can say.
That's cool, that's cool. So I guess, I mean it's been really interested to hear some of the things that you've been doing. And I guess, you know, looking at the different you know, what you can do on a local level and how that the next fands to you know, the conference wide and what haveing the bigger events and what have you. So for seven, you mentioned that you know, for some churches they have they've got thriving men's ministries. I'm sure they do for some churches and maybe not.
I mean that could also be indicative of the fact that the ratio of men in church in our church is much lower than say the more there are more women. But again it's not just about you know, meeting needs with the men in your church, source in the communities as well. But what message would you give to churches who have not necessarily got a men's ministry team? And you kind of said something a little bit about that earlier,
just to try and do something. But I I guess if you're just sort of say, right, okay, I want to kind of id say sell but promote the idea of putting amend's ministries team together or doing activities, what would be your key things that you would be saying to say, you know what, there's something you should do, get on board, you know, try and push it. And you know, if there isn't one, why isn't there one,
make it happen kind of things. So what would you what would be your kind of message to those churches.
Before definitely, sorry, let me just quickly say bit for difference. I think for me, one of the things I've been looking at doing, especially those small churches don't have one. I won't be saying, oh good idea to do this. What I would think would be more powerful is if we spoke to the pastor ask the past if we can have a program for just men, and we do a men's program in their men's minis in their church.
And I think because we men are visual creatures, Yeah, and when they actually see something, they get more out of reading or hear. You're in the visuals. So I think putting a program on in them will encourage that, and then you can encourage them to come on the platforms that we have and then trying to support them. I think that would be go a long way in terms of the visuality of it. And see how the church takes it when you deliver a program there, right, you know, I.
Was going to say that's these right, I was also going to say that there's one there's another reason why there's a lack of men's ministry. It depends on the culture. Because some churches, right, if they you know, they will say, oh, we're okay, we don't need it because of their culture. They think that, you know, because they're all right, you know, they don't need to have men's ministry because the men are okay. But then we should be asking the men
are they okay? You know what I mean, no matter what culture are in, no matter what language you're in, no matter you know what race you're from. But sometimes some it it's just to say to me, we're okay. And also I don't mean to say this in there, but yeah, let's be real. Even some pastors don't want to have the men's ministry in their churches and they don't see to see that as important, you know what I mean, And the men need it, you know what
I mean. So, as Leslie said, you know, we put programs on for men to be interested in the men's ministry, but I try not to force it. You don't want to force them. So instead I put in, like what I just said before. You know, especially when you start from ministry, the first figion to ask the men what they want to see, you know, what they want to see in this ministry, because sometimes we put ideas and
they don't want that kind of idea. And then when I say to them, okay, when you do that kind of thing, but you know, ask them what they want to see or what they want happening in the ministry. I always say to them, right, say someone said they want to do a football match or something like that. Then I say, well, that person take ownership of organizing that sort of thing, you know what I mean. And
and everybody has helped them, you know. They I like the especially young men, take ownership of what they're doing, so they feel like they are involved in it, do you know what I mean? Because sometimes I know men's ministry, men's leaders do a come up, but sometimes we need to pass it on so that one day, when you're gone, they can take over.
That's the inclusion and the purpose and.
That's right, so the one that they will take over, you know what I mean. So if we include our young folks, other men into taking ownership, and the and the you know, the wives, they need to support the men when it comes to these sort of things as well. They need to say you know what you go ahead, go go you know helps you know I say some sometimes I say it's like you need to encourage me a bit more. Do you know what I mean. You know, if the ladies encourage the men a bit more, they
will feel But sometimes encouragement goes a long way. That's why. That's why I like what's his name, Donald Lawrence when they did that song Encourage yourself, right. Men need encouragement to go a certain direction if they've got a goal. You you know, like I've been studying something and I'm graduating soon. I get the encouragement from my wife, keep going, keep going, you know what I mean. I get encouragement from my close friends, keep going, because sometimes you want
to give up. But when you get that encouragement to just keep going, it takes. It takes you a long way, you know me, because even though we pray, pray, sometimes it's not enough. I'm not saying pray, don't change thing or answer, but sometimes you need a physical on earth to say, you know, you still got a long way to go to the on that yellow brick road, keep going you That's where they inclusion it comes in. You know what I mean that we encourage each other to
keep going, you know, with these programs, keep going. You know, That's why I said to you earlier. Sometimes I just I will say is it worth doing Real menor Real Talk. But when you get the encouragement to say, you know, when someone says write a text to you and say you know what you're doing is really great, that's the encouragement you need to keep going, you know. That's why it keeps going for I don't know, is it four years? How many programs we put on on Real Memorial Talk?
What what's the details?
Can I just interject him?
I can't remember. I can't remember. Let me get back to you on that one.
Say what have you got coming up? And actually how can people find out about this program? These programs that your Day Talk.
Real Memorial Talk comes on every other Monday, and it's on Zoom and it starts at seven thirty to nine thirty. And usually we send out posters every month and you get it either on the SEC website newsletter or we have a mail shop and I send it out to all the Men's Ministry churches or groups, and also on
the SEC WhatsApp channel, I have Instagram, you know. And another thing we're doing which I didn't mention, but I will mention Leslie knows, And we're trying to organize a podcast as well for men, And the reason why we're
trying to organize a podcast for men. I feel sometimes that there is not enough programs for men to have conversations or anything, because you know, like like Loose Women, you have every day Loose Women is on and they talk about anything, and I'm not saying that, And then when it's the program for men, like you know, it's something important like don't know, you know that beard thing they do November, you know, you have that once for the whole year, or it's Father's Day. That's the only
time they have a program. And I think, no, you know, mental health, you know all the prostate cancer, or or there's men who wrote books or or or there's an event. We should have that kind of program more often for men to have a conversation.
Do you get me?
And that's why I want to do a real memorial talk It's on its way podcast, Okay, so that will be another thing on top of the real memoral Talk Zoom meetings. We will be doing that as well.
Okay, so you can find that on So you didn't got Instagram? What's your Instagram?
Actually?
Then well the miscribes mine own.
So yeah, but we will be organized a real manoral Talk Instagram, and we want to do a Roman Talk channel so that we could put information on there.
Any event so I go to or we go to, we can record it put it on there so that men can see. Because I wan't meant to be interested in these events, but whenever the events come on, and not only with SEC but all events of the of churches that we advertise or whatever, and for men to come and hopefully be interested in.
Okay, and you just you send me to post that you've got one coming up.
Next to a men's conference coming up, Yeah, next in March March, I think it's the fourteenth to the sixteenth, right, Nestley. March fourteenth to the sixty is going to be at the Denham Grove Hotel which is in Uxbridge, and it's called the theme is stop, Look, Listen, but let's talk, And basically it's about men's issues, what we're going through, you know what I mean. We need to stop so we can talk about it. Maybe we could look and see, because sometimes we look but we don't really see what
men is going. We're just going past them, you know what I mean. And listen listening, not talk, but listen sometimes listening as I said, science is God. We just listened to them.
You know.
I remember one time when I was going, I was really down. I wasn't in meense miinster, I was really down in church, and I go to church and I want to tell one of the elders something and the best the line that I did not want to hear, which we always say, I know it's changing now, but we always say, because Leslie mentioned it, let's just pray about it. Just pray about it. And they left me, you know what I mean. So the listening part didn't
even happen. You know, I wanted to someone to because you know what, I believe, if we could tell our story, it will help someone else with their story and their journey. We need. Our story is important to tell. But and we're going through stuff. We want someone to listen, to give us a hard or you know what I mean, or just just don't say, just listen so we can lift that burden out of us because we carry a lot of burdens. Men carry a lot of burdens now,
but no one is listening. No, they we're too frightened to say everything with our burdens. And so that's when men's health come in where we get sick because we're carrying all this burden and you know, we're like, you know, I remember my son used to say to me, my son, when I was driving my car. My son said to me, you know, there's noise in your front wheel. And I won't even listen.
To but I was just like, we are you talking about?
You know, what are you talking about? Wilson, don't worry. And then I drive out. The cord came up again. He goes, there's noise in the front wheel, Dad, And I said no, no, no, that's not there's no and then he said, I will record it. So he recorded it and I played it and it was noise in the front wheel. This was for months, and I took it to the garage and they after they investigated, they said, you need a new breaks, you need a dispath and all that. It costs the whole four wheels of my cut.
It cost me a bomb. He said, if you listen to your son in the first place, your solve that problem already. That's what men should do. Right. If you have a problem, talk to someone now, don't wait twenty years later and then it gets worse, and then you then you're blame whoever. No, you're the one to blame because you didn't do the you didn't act in the first place. That's what that's so that's what I'm saying.
So so so this this this program is forgetting men to to just just act on what you you know, whatever it is, you will act on it now before it gets worse.
Oh I love that, And I can say, you know, it's really it's quite inspiring hearing you your passion for this. This is great, This is great. And you know, Zeby and I are often having these conversations saying, you know, men don't talk enough. Men should do this. You know, we'd like to see that, and it's really really encouraging, really positive to see.
You know that we can't have them all.
Listen real quick, I'm sorry, do you know she just excluded me. Three of us had that conversation.
I was saying, from our perspective, our perspective, because the thing is, the thing is, we've also had this debate that actually, would men come together and do this sort of thing, And that's often been the thing.
That we would We've had those conversations. But you just said that you and Zenya have those conversations, but all three of us have that conversation.
I was referring to the perspective of it, because at the end of the day, there are some views they're not going to come together, they don't do this type of thing, But actually they can do that sort of thing, and they do and this is what's happening. So it's really encouraging to see that.
I think men have a choice to go to these events, right, But I'm myself lessing and Basil. We're trying to encourage them to come. You know what, what is it that they could come? So instead of saying about the workshop's own, I always say things like, there's food, because men love food. We have to make sure that the food is right. But when I went, I tested the food. The food is called. And then there's a gym. They can go
to the gym, you get me. So these are some of the things that men would love to come, even if they just come for the gym. And at least if they come for the gym and they come for the food, they don't come to the workshop. I thank god they came.
They're about to talk to somebody and have some kind of conversation.
They will have a conversation. They will have got this, but at least they came.
I think a lot of it is stems from you're completely away from your own environment. That's right, okay, and people feel more free to talk then. And I think when you have that kind of a forum is a powerful thing. When you see all men together, especially when you see them singing together, it's just powerful, it really is. And I think what people are missing when they see that, they're like, whoa, the light bulb comes on and they're kind of like that. But it is to get that
to continue once they've left. It's the challenge. But you know what, it's like anything. If you don't start, you never know what you can achieve.
You've got to do something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's only one person. Forget about numbers. I used to be number person, and I remember, you know, Chris Leavey once said to me that at the end of the day, it's not about numbers, because you can have five hundred people but they're not committed, and you can have two people and they're committed. So don't look at number because people will watch in the background to see how things are going. If they feel it's going well,
they'll start coming on board. So forget numbers. Just do something, because a lot of times people just want to see something being done. They see that, they're like, you know, it's like they didn't have they probably didn't know how to do it, or they probably didn't weren't brave enough, but they actually see something. It's like Nicodemus. Nicodemus went to Jesus at night because they didn't want to be seen.
And it's a similar kind of thing. You know, it's like, oh, I can't do that, But when they see someone else do it, then they start okay, they start supporting it, and before you know it, you know, it increases. But but yeah, it's just about doing you know. You know, there's a saying if you don't start, you can never finish.
And just to add to that in terms of your numbers scenario, it really is if you've just helped one So even when you talk about the podcast or the conversations that you have on a weekly basis or bi weekly basis, if it's just one person that logs in and it makes a difference to that one person, you've pulled them from the precipice or whatever it is. You know, you've given them sound advice that they can utilize or whatever it is. If it's just that one person, then
it's a conversation worth having. You know, we look at numbers and think it has to be numbers for it to be successful. But no, and then that one person could reach millions. You just don't know. So yeah, don't be discouraged. It would be my message to you and to you Leslie. You know you're doing wonderful work and you know it's not a numbers game. It's about the commitment. It's about the authenticity. It's about making a difference, and you're certainly doing that.
Raise God, Praise God, Thank you, Thank you.
With that, our time is fast spent. Can you imagine it's always a way because I think we could probably be talking for another good half of at least going on. But that always means that there is always going to be a part two, but always so you know, I want to thank you both Devon and Leslie for coming on the show to this week to start to find
Men's Month. It's really encouraging to hear what's happening within our churches and what men's ministry is doing across the conference and we want to encourage there's been who may be listening to get involved. It's on a really big scale, as in going to the events and activities or doing something within your local church, your local community. Make those connections with those relationships and do something to support each other. Never know the difference he will make. So if you
want to get involved. Obviously there's a Real Talk, Real Men, Real Talk coming up on the fourth of November up so do look out for those posters there and their Men's Conference is happening fourteenth to the sixteenth of March twenty twenty five, and again information can be found on the Sapping the Conference website and we'll post some bits as well on our site on our look socials as well. So I want to thank you both again for coming
on and sharing what you've been doing. Throughout the rest of this month, we'll be talking I suppose Let's Talk will do that Real Talk, Real Men, Real Talk, CALO
type programs as well. We're going to be looking at obviously November we talk about the national campaign as you've mentioned about focusing on health, physical and mental health, so we'll be looking at that throughout the month as well, and we're looking at some men who will make other men's stories and hearing back the things that they're doing in their communities as well. So do you stay tuned
in to talking points and advantage Readio London. And as I've said at the beginning, if you want to get involved and we would love to hear your stories all the things that you are doing in your churches as well. Please to get in contact with us, you can email us on studio at Adventist Radio dot London. You can text us on eight triple two eight write hope, leave a space and then your message. But we can send a what's that message on zero seven four five nine
six four two eight nine eight. Do get in contact. We'd love to hear from you, and yes, please join us again. Thank you for listening. I hope you've been blessed just like we have been heed Joe, would you like to pray to close for us?
I was actually want to add one of the armed gentlemen to pray for us this time.
I mean you can do that.
Seven or Leslie, would you be up for praying to close for us?
Pray, I'll pray, I'll pray, Thank you us, Pray Heavenly Father, loving God, we just want thank you for this moment, this time. I just want to thank you for the conversations. I pray Lord that this will reach out to men that we've not been able to reach.
Lord.
We know there's somebody out there, there's a man out there who's in need of you, and I pray wherever he may be at this time, Father, that he will have heard this conversations that we've had this evening, and he will know that he is valued, loved, is important, and Lord, you love him. So I pray God that
you'll just be with us in a special way. I thank you for this opportunity, maybe with each and every one of us, Lord, as we leave this broadcast, but not your presence, and then you bless everything that this broadcast aims to do and to achieve, so that your name and it's all about you, Lord, your name is Glory. Well, this is our prayer in your precious name. Amen.
Amen, Amen, thank you, thank.
You so much, so thank you so much for joining us. So it's good night from all of us on talking point. Do you join us again, enjoy the rest of your evening and have a fantastic week, and we'll see you. God willing next.
Good Evening.
Adventist Radio London.
Inspiration for the song