Cornerstone Counselling: A Discussion on Mental Health

Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song. We welcome to Talking Point with Ray Angela, discussing the hot topics and answering your questions. Saturday's five to seven pm on Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point. It's talking Point. It's talking Point, it's talking Point, real conversations. You need to have good evening, good evening, good evening. Hopefully you are hearing me, lad and clear. Put this for our slightly light start. Having a few

technical difficulties in the studio, but we are here with Talking Point. It's Sambath, sixteenth of September, and it feels like we've been off air for a little while, as they off air, actually live in studio and actually being a studio show. We took a bit of a break over the summer holiday, but we are back back with our regular scheduling, so welcome. I hope you've all had a good Sabbath and you've been blessed by the good

weather. Might to see some sunshine today, so yes, welcome back everybody. Today, we've got a very interesting show and this month we are looking at the idea of therapeutic support and therapy and we're going to be highlighting one of our own services that we have in our Adventist church that's Cornerstone Counseling. So last week it was World Mental Health Day? Do we believe it was so? And the idea of mental health and what we can do to support

that is I'm going to say it's a hot topic. I think it always has been, but definitely one that we know we need to continue with the conversation. So we're going to be highlighting Cornerstone, it's our own service that we have, but really talking about some of the issues and the concerns and the things that people are talking about and how they can gain the help for that. As always, I've got my two trusty co hosts with me. I've got Zenya and Petro. How are you both? I am well.

I certainly enjoyed the break. I'm not going to tell a lie, but I am happy to be back as well. It's good to be with you in radio land. Welcome to Talking Point for we shouldn't really call it another season's night. After the break that we've had, I hope every one as well. I had a good summer, enjoyed the Sunshinels Angels said, it's been intermittent, but certainly when it's come, we've sort of vast in it and hopefully last a little longer. Indeed. Indeed, and Petro, how

are you doing? Hello everybody, thank you for joining us tonight, and I'm talking point hello Rusty. Yeah, I did enjoy the time off, even though the same like, I did more stuff. It's like, you know, working and then you go on vacation. You do more on vacation than you do when you work. So say like, even though we had the break, I was doing more stuff, So I did enjoy it, though I had got to spend some time with the family, too much time

actually, And you know, so I'm good. I'm glad to be back and able to talk to the folks and to you guys and to the health, to the guest, I mean cool. So yeah, I did enjoy myself good, and I will come back to our guests shortly. But as always, as we're going to start up, we're talking about really serious topics. So I was always going to invite the Lord into our conversation and to our programs. So let's pray to start as we continue on. Father God,

I want to thank you for blessing us with a Sabbath day. Dear Lord, I thank you for the opportunity that we've had to worship with you and get a blessing from the songs, the words and everything that we heard during our day. As we are about to start our conversation about really serious topic, Dear Lord, I pray that you will come into this conversation, bless each person here who was taking part, and bless those who are listening,

Dear Lord, that they will gain something beneficially useful. I thank you for hearing and answering our prayer and the mighty things that you will do. Amen, Amen, Amen. So how was your we've been we've been on a break, but how was your week been? Senior and Pedro. Goodness, that sounds a tricky question because we just zips fab I said, it's a bit of a blur and then all the black frow it, but it is. It's a bit of a black comber exactly what's happened this week,

but it's worked as usual. What's going on there in preparation again for mental health, as you said, a very hot topic, close pandemic. It's even more on the radar, so or it's Mental Health Day. October tenth, and so we're trying to see what we might be able to do as a company for that. So yeah, just a lot happening as usual. As as Pedgure says, I mean, life just seems to just hurry on at the moment and we just have to learn to take step back, take

a breath, reset, recharge. And I'm thankful for the Sabbath in that respect as well. So yeah, God's good, dude, and that's grateful to be here another a Sabbath day. Yeah, thank you about you? How was your someone? Did you say? And I'm not sure it's to the person at the mic, but I mean it was your someone? How was your It was busy? I kind of it was great. Again. It was really good that we'd had a bit of a break because it enabled us to do other things. I had lots of quite a few events.

I sang at a worship event, which was a real blessing, and then I actually went to America. It's something you may know. I'm looking after my mum and it was actually to get some support. Let's go and see my sister in America. So we took a trip over there, and I've left my mum over there for another few weeks. But I'm really blessing and I kind of get this testimony when I went to the church over there actually

to be able to the pandemic. Whilst it wasn't a great time, the reality of actually working remotely or working from home, working from home was a reality. Lots of people used to do this before, and I have worked

from home previous times. But actually technology is afforded as the luxury and the privilege to be able to work from anywhere and the job that I do a lot of I meet with students, I meet a lot of them online anyway, so enabled to me, and we've got a policy at work that enables us to you know, I think in light of the pandemics, but to spend time with friends and family that it may not have been able to see, to be able to sort of you know, work somewhere else around the

world. So I went for I went for a baptist two weeks, take my mum and obviously get supported my sister, go and see my sister. But also I was working there, which was a bit tricky because I was doing some very early arts starting at four o'clock in the morning, working on UK time, but it was a blessing nonetheless, and he just meant that had the afternoons to kind of do other things as well. So I got back a week ago, so yeah, getting back into normal UK routine.

But yeah, so but again it was just a again, I realizing, you know, the year is flying past, and I know we say we say this literally every week, but I'm just like, where do the days go? You know, when you're really busy, you'll fling it with lots of things. So so I'm not sure if my mum and sister will be listening. They're probably started, but I'll give a shout out to Vichy Rose, the church that she goes to. And yeah, thankful that I'm able

to travel, able to work remotely. And you know, as you said, life goes on and you try and make the best of it. I've had a few challenges are when I've got back, the perils of living in a flat underneath. People have meant that high deal with stuff that goes on, but I said, sorry for another time. So yeah, but thankful it's a sabbath and we're here. Probably it's some therapy myself to all of this. But then but yeah, but Petril, has your week been as

well? Just like you guys, My week was hectic, went back to work. Uh, Like I said, we went to London, came back on the second day, went shopping for the kids for school uniforms on Monday, then back to school on Tuesday, and then back to work. And it's just been I can't even believe that it's already the but the sixteenth, it just feels like it was the second of September. It's like the days of just flying where I can't even like keep up anymore. Yeah, and

it's just like ridiculous. But uh, when we were talking about doing this program, I thought about it too, because like with my job, I go to see all different types of people, and like, this week has really been weird because like I've been going to different houses and I've been meeting people that like could use therapy pretty much. They just the thought the stuff

they go through. You never know what somebody's going through. You always think you have it worse, but there's always somebody worse than you, that's going through it worse than you or feeling it worse than you. So I was kind of looking forward to this program today because this week was just a weird week. Like everybody that I was going to see was just had a story to tell. It was just yeah, it was just like wow, okay, like you know, and so that's pretty much it out. It was

for that. My week was was the same same, I don't want to say it the same old same one. It's time yeah, because it's it was. It was just yeah, it's just it's always the same old same. But it's like we just it seemed like we're like in a circle, like in a loop, and we just can't get out the loop. Yeah you can. It was like we're in a loop and you know, it's just the same old say it's like day jobl is just the same thing,

the same routine. Get up to get the kids to school, get the word, come back home, go to sleep, wake up, do it all over again. In between you may eat every and then you know, who knows, Yeah, and I guess that and whilst that sometimes you know, the whole routine and the regularity of things could be good, that in itself could cause some challenges and some problems. So you know, if that's kind of an interesting thing that you're saying there, So with that fat way.

I was trying with quick on that one one more before you think, Actually that was weird because one thing I would say, I was looking forward

to the routine because during the summer time it was just so much. It was so manic and so crazy, and we was going so many different places that I was actually looking forward to the to just being able to just do the same thing every day, because it was like I was, I felt like I was like losing my mind because it was just so much going on, you know, going here for my wife to sing, then doing this with the kids, and then doing this with my wife again, and it

was like it was gonna left right. I didn't know it the way I was. I didn't know if I was gonna left or right, or up or down. It was like so I actually getting back in the routine was actually kind of therapeutic, if you believe it. Even though maybe very busy, it was still a therapeutic because it was a routine. Yeah yeah,

yeah, okay, interesting yeah, interesting. So as we're talking about so today, as I've said before, if you're just joining us, we are talking about it's going to be highlighting and looking at therapeutic support and we're highlighting one of our own services, Cornerstone Counseling, and we've been blessed today to be joined on the on the show today by two members from that team.

So I'm going to get them to introduce them themselves and tell them tell us a little bit about themselves, what they do and how they're involved in the service. So I will start with let's art with Tembi. So, Hi, thank you for joining us today. Hi, Hi Angie then, and that's my name. Yeah, it's been very interesting to just listen to you guys chatting and discussing and just getting into knowing who you are and how life has been for you and your views on what's been happening. So thank you

for that chat. And it also helped settle us down, didn't it. Grace. Yeah, Yes, my name is Timdy my Pinky rep. And I am I'm a mother, I'm a I'm a wife and a grandmother, a newly grandmother but two weeks old grandson. I'm just so excited. I'm just all over with excitement and I just can't wait just to kiss him all over. And I am currently working as the Counceling coordinator for the South England Conference of the Seventh Day Advantage Church. So Adventists Radio London is part of

this church and its a department just like Connastone is. We do have a team of counselors that work with the counseling service. We've got about twenty one at the moment, and we specialize in many different areas. So we've got specialists in trauma. In fact, we now have about seven trained trauma specialists.

We've got two family therapists, We've got couples that are pists. In fact, all our counselors have been trained to work with couples, although sometimes when we need specially more specialized complicated couple therapy, we then refer to those who specialized in that. We've got a specialist in working with children, specialists working with young people, and specialist in working with different areas, and those who are just trying to work in general with all the issues that come through

the counseling service. Okay, so type your you a therapist yourself? Yes, I am. I am a therapist. I've been a therapist. I've been doing counseling since two thousand and two, okay, and I've worked as a school counselor I've worked as a college counselor, I've worked in private practice, I've worked as a council as at Cornerstone, and yes, i am a concling Okay, okay, so well versed in all of those areas. No doubts in a lot of people, so okay, So thank you for

that giving us a little bit of an overview of the service. So I think that when we will come back to you, we've got lots of questions to be asking you about that. So you've been telling it's a little bit more about what counseling years, seripy years at etc. So we'll go on to and with you today we've got Grace. So hi Grace, thank you for joining us today and welcome and it's great to be here. Yes, so yes, just tell a little bit about yourself and what you do and

yes, and your connections with Cornerstone. Yeah, brilliant. Thanks. So my name is doctor Grace answer rusy, but I'm not a doctor of counseling. I'll tell you the story. It's a long winded story. So I'm one of the volunteer counters with Cornerstone. I've been with Cornerstone just over a year actually, so I'm not I'm a relative newbe in the corner. I very much. I'm a movie there's people that have been there for years and

years and years. So my original background academic suppose career background. I'm an organizational psychologist. So it basically means that try to keep people in work, try to help select the right people for work, help support them in the workplace for lots of things to do with training, coaching and psychiometric assessments and things. That's my day job. And I've been in that field for about fifteen years, and then back in twenty sixteen, I've decided, oh,

actually miscounseling stuff. It sounds very intriguing because when I was a young kid up until now, people always kind of confided in me. They always wanted to talk to me about really deep things. And then in twenty sixteen, I was like, this is becoming even more common. Let me look into doing some additional training. So I did diploma postgraduate diploma in Psychotherical Accounseling at the University of East London in East London in the UK, and I started

that in twenty eight two year part time. Of course, absolutely loved it and I've done too many degrees to count, but that has got to be my favorite one, and it involves, you know, you have to do certain number of hours of training on the course. I had to cut down my day job out to four days a week and do the course one day week. There's a lot of commitment, but one hundred percent worth it.

And then just as the pandemic it, I became qualified. So I was doing a lot of my training online anyway, with online services and charities. That was even before the pandemic. So when I finished, I was very very well versed in working virtually with people anyway. So kind of just happen to work really well. So you know, that's a bit about me. So I juggle both. So I do. I have private practice, I work for Cornerstone. I have a day job as well, and a few

of the bits and pobs I do at the side. Okay, So I could imagine you've come across a lot of different people as well throughout your time, especially as you said, within the workplace. So yeah, that's really interest So thank you, Grace. So yeah, Tenbi and Grace are here from Cornerstone, and really we kind of wanted to kind of unpack and just talk a little a bit about what this now. The words therapy, therapeutic support, counseling, psychology, you know, all the kinds of words that

are associated and that link in with mental health. It really wants to kind of use this show today as a bit of introduction. Over our time on Talking Point, we have spoken about mental health. There are different awareness days throughout the year we've linked in talking about specific things like stress or trauma, approvement or what have you. But you know, again, it's always good

to be having this conversation. So again what we want to do is highlight for any new listeners or anybody who you know is just joining us for the first time, or season listens as well, just kind of really highlight what's going on and what all these things are, what they mean, and how it can be applicable to them. If you are interested in, as I say this, if you're interested in joining in the conversation with us, we'd

love to hear from you. You can email us on studio at Adventist Radio dot London, or you can text us on eight triple two eight write hope and then leave a space and then your message. I haven't nessally thought about a question that I'd like to do. But if you have any questions around therapy or any thoughts around that about therapeutic support, counseling, et cetera,

do let us know. We'd love to hear from you. But yes, so, I guess also if I ask people their own experiences with the counsel or a therapy, because most of us did not all of us have had some engagement with in a therapeutic services, so let us know is it good, was it bad? What's your experienced? Never do it again? So yeah, definitely, So that's studio. Is that your experience again? No, no, no, it's really not actually, but for some people it

doesn't always work out. And I guess we'll can talk about that a little later as well. So again Student Advantage Radio Dot London or Texas on eight Triple two eight Space Hope and then your message, So yeah, do during the conversation, so I guess to start off, then I guess really tender your grace just to kind of really explain to us about what is therapeutic support.

Like I said, there are other kind of we're using the word buzzwords, but those kind of words that kind of you know, we will hear, and sometimes those words are slightly frightening, or people are concerned. Mental health as a topic as a theme is not always spoken about. Sometimes people aren't very comfortable talking about the topic itself or any experiences that you have. I think over the years, things have got a lot better, and things

like the pandemic or this general situation. We're in a kind of economic crisis at the moment. The cost of of in crisis has brought these conversations to the forefront because people are really struggling. But people have been struggling for a long time. But I think raise awareness to different things that we know that happen throughout the year, do highlight that, but people still can be a bit reluctant to access to understand. So just tell us a little bit about

what, yeah, therapeutic support is and what counseling is. Yeah, what's therapy? Do you want me to start? Just kind of drink so I

don't want to catch up. So it's a good question because counseling, psychotherapy, therapeutic for all of those words are used interchangeably, and they can be quite scary, and to be honest, there's a lot of professionals within the space that don't know the difference between the words either, so it's not clear, and I think that leads to it being inaccessible to a certain extent because people are like, I don't know who to go to and for so counseling

and psychotherapy they're the ones that are probably used the most interchangeably. But there technically is a difference, but in practice it's a bit more blood. So counseling is supposed to be more short term support focused on one thing or two things, like it could be like bereavement, it could be anxiety, even

though that's wide reaching and it's time bound. So with for example, the NHS, you get six to eight sessions of cognitive behavior sorry cognitive behavioral therapy in one go, and that would be probably to look at one specific thing or a few things rather than your whole life, where psychotherapy technically much more

long term. It's more open ended, so you might work with someone and they might not be an end date, or it could be that you work with them for a year very regularly, so once a week minimum kind of time, and that can really focus on things that are really far in the past, so childhood traumas as well as current focus things that they want to focused on the client. So that's mainly difference in theory, but in practice

it doesn't always work like that. So I'm going to handle them being to give us a little bit more because, like I said, I'm a neating Thank you, thank you for that. Grace well said, even though a psychotherapy is long term, it does not mean that the counselors who do not short term cannot cover some of the childhood issues. So they are also trained in covering all that, but it's more short term that The difference also comes

in the training. Counselors are trained for a shorter period and psychotherapists they've got more specialized training to deal with deeper issues that people bring to therapy. And there's Grace say that it's used very much interchangeably, and it's very difficult to know the difference. So usually it is for the clinicians themselves to be able to know the difference to say, now I need to refer right, is

it? Because in my mind, when I think counseling and when I think psychotherapy or psychiatrists, I think of the word psychic or psychosis or that comes to mind. So I feel like the person who's dealing with psychotherapy or psych the psychiatric side of things and dealing with some of the there's more complex issues

or maybe biological sort of wiring or miswiring as well. And I wouldn't want to say to someone, and I think this is where we're shedding light on the matter, I wouldn't want to say to someone I'm seeing a psychia trist and rather say I'm seeing a therapist or I'm seeing a counselor, because it just seems to me that that's more common, that's more I mean, gosh, as opposed to seeing is that some of the differences that you you having

counters and help people see see a counselor or a therapist as opposed to someone who's a psychotherapist or a psychiatric I'm a psychiatrist. A common misconception is that just me. Yeah, I mean no, it's not just you. I think there's so many different ideas. And the term psycho, I think it's either Latin or Greek for mind. That's all, that's what it actually means, that's where it's roots from. So I can understand why you would you

would connect it with more like clinical in a clinical setting. But I'm so I'll go through the terms. So you've got like counting psychologist, you've got clinical psychologists, and you've got psychiatrists, and then you've got counsels as a psycho therapist. And then everyone's like, what on Earth space do they do? So yet no for real and I get it. It's very confusing. So a psychiatrist is a medical doctor. They've done five years of undergrad in

a medical degree. But I'm talking about the UK based, but I think in American Richins say they've done their basic medical training that will do, you know, go through everything anatomy, physiology anyway, at the end of that, they are a medical doctor. Then they do their two post graduation years in an NHS hospital, which is general so they're not working in a psych ward straight away. They will have a placement in there maybe if they are

left to do that. Then they decide what specialism they want to do, and then if that is psychiatry, they work specifically in a psychiatric ward whatever with adults, children, it could be people with learning disabilities, all these kinds of different placements. Then they do exams and they are connected to the Royal College of Psychiatrists which is based I think near London, not like south central London now because I used to work for the ironically, even though I'm

not psychiatrists, So that's what psychotrist said. Usually the they're the only ones that are allowed to prescribe drugs, so things like antidepressants, things like anti anxiety cher eugs, and they're the only ones that they're not the only ones, but they're mainly able to diagnose different things like bipolar disorder or actual depression, all of those things that your GP will refer you to a psychiatrist if there are roots for concern, and that would be in within an NHS setting.

A psychiatrist is not necessarily a therapist though they're not account they're not a therapist. They're trained in the medical model and they can prescribe drugs and they can also prescribe talking therapies as well. That would be under an NHS banner or if they're private, the same kind of thing. So that's what psychiatrists are. Nobody else is a medical doctor within the sphere, yes, but

there are people that have doctorate though, so that is a psychiatrist. A clinical psychologist is some and that's done an undergraduate and psychology, or a conversion course in psychology that's three years, or if they've crammed the conversion courses one year. They do specific work experience within NHS settings or mental health settings,

lots of different settings. Then they apply to a professional doctorate which is NHS funded, and that professional doctorate is three years full time and they work and learn different things to do with like research. They will have placements in different NHS settings like children like child and anolescent mental health services, elderly people. They might work with people with autism, they might work people with dementias,

so they work very much within the NHS setting. Multidisciplinary so they might work psychiatrists, but they also might work with medical doctors like tps. They also might work with people in intensive care units as well, so they're trained by the NHS. Counseling psychologists are very similar. They work in very similar setting. The only different One of the only differences is their funding isn't funded by

the NHS. So somebody who wants to do councing psychology undergraduate in psychology again, they also do one year work experience and then they will apply to different universities to do a professional doctorate similar way, to the clinical psychologists, but their training is more grounded in more therapeutic models than clinical to a certain extent.

And technically, and again I don't want to get in trouble for this, So technically, on paper, counseling psychologists are meant to technically work with people who have less acute challenges, so like not severely, and then clinical psychologists are technically meant to work with people who have more severe problems conditions.

However, in reality it doesn't work like that at all. Any clinical psychologists and counting psychologists work with whoever they get basically and broken wor with acute a broken work with mild to medium that kind of like common mental health disorders as well. So it on paper it looks one way, but in reality it's totally different. And I just asked that, is that because of the demand just before we move on? Is that that people out across disciplines and people

see different people from different things. Is that I demanded you. I'm not really sure, not accounts. I think it's just how the NHS is set up. So on paper they've they've defined it, but in reality everything kind of just goes in with the wash, if you know, what I mean in the NHS service, right, you've trained in this, right, you can s you can see this client. And then you have other specialisms as well. There's like Psychoanalytics support, which is also an NHS funded professional doctorate

as well. That's quite specialist too in some services, and all of the trust will have these different kind of professionals to work with as well, so they'll just refery just whoever. Okay, so that's about it. I think I've covered law. Yeah, No, definitely, I was gonna say, definitely a mindfield, which is why we're having to talk a conversation to look kind to say, right, Actually, there's a lot to unpack there, and I guess if you had no idea where to start, but it's been

really useful actually to kind of know that there are differences. There are difference that they cover and Temba. You mentioned the different types of therapy that Corner Sent offers, but there are out there, so I guess each of those those practitioners they may work in different ways or do different people. And you mentioned kind of couples trauma inform of therapy with children young people, is there a lot of kind of I mean, I guess because of those different specialisms

for areas, are they quite different or will people just work? I'm saying they are different, But how do do some of them require different types of practitioners to others or it's all quite interchangeable depending of what the person's size to specialize on. Okay. What we try to do is when we do an assessment, it will how light the issues the client brings, So we then choose the counselor that is best suited to work with that, Okay. And

that's based on their training, their experience. Yes, it's based on their training, their experience, their their competence in that field. And I know you mentioned a little bit. There's different obviously, there's different types of I don't know what you call the models or different ways of working. So what would be some of those? And I know, Grace, you mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy commonly known as cbteam. I've heard that, and you mentioned I

think psychodynamic as well. I think it's in there somewhere. So what are the other other sort of models or practices or because again that's kind of added to the different people who are the practitioners, but the way in which they work. Yes, there is also solution focused, which is very common in the NHS. We've got internal family systems, we've got a person centered that is more as it says, person centered, and we tend to to be

integrative at cornerstone. So that means we're pull in whichever model suits the need of the client, right, And I think we generally integrate intusibity. Right. When I say we integrate, we also our basic model will be cibity, and we work from that background, pulling in solution focus when we needed, pulling in psychodynamic when we needed, right. Okay, So it's kind of, yeah, pulling from all the almost like pulling for different resources as

it were, to kind of work with. But you mentioned about person centered, so the idea that it actually is about the person who is there and you're kind of working around what's going to be the best thing for that person and their particular need. Yeah, okay, yeah, and in general too, to be honest, almost all therapy is person centered in a way. Yes, yeah, because we are looking at the person, their needs and

what's going to be helpful for them. Okay, So yes, the core conditions of the person sent that model to think about the person being congruent, being sympathetic. They come into every counceling model. Yeah, so they and more about that. I trained integratively, so we learned about all of a lot of different models, like just out and like a person center, sitution focus. We learn about most of them, but we primarily trained in person

centered and I've got to say it's it's definitely my go to. It's my favorite because if everything else is not there, you focus on the client. So I don't, I won't. I try not to come in with any preconceived ideas, even if they spoke about something the week before. Whatever they want to bring this session, they bring it, and that's what we're working

with. So we're really working with what that client brings on that day their self and everything that comes with it, so they don't have to leave anything out of the of the equation if they don't want to. And it's quite liberating to work that way for the client and as for the therapist to be honest. Okay, yeah, yeah, So with that in mind, then obviously there's lots of different ways of work people are gonna work of you what really is the benefits of therapy? Like, you know, why is it?

I mean It's almost like say, why do you do what you do? But why is it? Why is it helpful? And why is it needed? And I'm asking this almost rhetorically because I kind of know the answer to some of this, but you know, yeah, why why would somebody access therapy? What's going to be the benefits? And how is that helpful? M? And do you get first? Yeah? You want me to go? Yeah, go ahead, Grace. I think canceling us and therapy in general in general does have a lot of benefits, and some of these

subtle benefits that we don't think about. Our self awareness, just being aware of who you are, your needs, your understanding of yourself, your stressors, how you deal with the difficult issues in life. It also helps with really learning how to have problem solving skills. I'll leave some for Grace to fill into that. And it also helps with having just a general well being that is mostly linked with positive changes into our brain and body. Yeah.

I when Petrol started the conversation and he mentioned that he'd been to several houses this past week that he felt people needed to talk to someone in doing preparation for this program, it made me understand that really we all need to speak to someone. It's not necessarily when we come to crisis mode, and I feel like that's probably something that we will delve into as we continue this program. But it just makes you understand that prevention is better than cure, and

we are necessarily needing to go to counselors when everything's fallen apart. But it's a process of keeping things together. Like like any successful athlete would have a coach alongside them to get them prepared and to keep them focused and all that sort of stuff. I think in that same way, therapists and counselors are

able to keep us emotionally prepared, emotionally intact. So in doing this program or preparing for this program, made me realize that, no, it's not necessarily for crisis or when you've got trauma, when you've got a problem, it could be just to have someone, as you said them, to talk things out with and to reason with and to you don't know what you don't know, and when you're speaking to someone who has experienced and has been through

it with others, they might be able to point you in the right direction, will help you if not pointed, but help you to get there. And that is something that we don't often think about when we think about therapy. We think it's that point when you know the whole world's fallen apart and

you know we're in shambles. And again we want to talk about that a little later on because as Christians we don't necessarily feel that we should go on and there's a lot of discussion that we want to have about that as well, whether we think, okay, we've we've got faith, we've got God, do we need anybody else. But for me, in preparing for this, it made me realize, you know what, maybe I should have a conversation because again you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, yeah,

And I think that's thank you for that. Then. I think that's one of the things that you do when you are training to be a counselor. You have to go into canceling yourself so that you get to know yourself. You get to understand who you are, You get in touch, yes with the real you mm in case you go and meet yourself in the counseling room and your daughter know what to do. That's really interesting client. It happened so much, and again most courses will make the students had some level of

personal therapy. Mine. It wasn't a requirement. I was probably very rare in that, but I went and sought therapy I think about six months before I started my course, and I've never I had the bit of CDC before, but I've never had what I had, and I had to him for about near on five years, and I've got to say I, hands down again, not everybody can access private therapists that long. I couldn't either. I got you know, you just to make it work, right, Yeah,

I left things apparently. Yeah, it was amazing. It was. It was probably one of the most important thing I've experienced in my life. Without the therapeutic training, and even if I just had that, I would have learned so much about myself. But it's it's really made me understand myself so much more and understand dynamics as well, like family dynamics, work dynamics,

Like why am I reacting to this person like that? Okay, it's probably because they remind me of someone who you know, all this past trauba gets stricked up and sometimes it is scary concept or going to a therapist because you're like, I don't even want to touch all that stuff. That I because if I open it up, I don't know what's going to come out. And that's part of the joy of it because the therapist or the counselor

is there to contain. They're there to containing primarily, it's there to contain your feelings and you've got that hourly where you're able to basically use it as you want to and then use those tools for the rest of the time. So basically what we're trying to say that most they also have therapy, so they're on the other side, and if they have therapy, that has something called sick visions. So that's another way that we strengthen our muscles in the

therapytic language and get advice and guidance as well. So we're not we're not on our island our working yeah, yeah, yeah, And it is it is recommended that we go into personal canceling ever so often because even as you work with others, there are certain areas of your life that you might have not touched in your personal counseling. As a students, because life happens as you grow, there are things that keep happening, So we need to be

going into canceling ourselves to empty out. Is it to clean up, clean out o our inner emotional world so that we're able to contain the issues that are brought to us. Cool? Cool, Okay, Well because a break for music break, So I've this is one of my shows. Actually, I'm just reminded of Mary. Mary can't give up now because even though things can be really challenging, and we're talking about the support and the help that

you can to help you manage and find solutions to work it out. So we're gonna have a quick listen to Mary, Mary, I can't give we can't give up now. They will be mountain I will have climb and they will be bettles that I will have fine, But to be or defeat, it's up to me to decide. But how can I expect to win if I never try? I just came up, come to fartomwhere I start. Nobody told me the world would be easy. I don't. He's brought me

this far to me. Never said there wouldn't be tryl never said I would it far, never said that ever bang would go the way I wanted to go. But when my back is against the wall and I feel a hole is gone, I'll just give my head up to the sky and say he'll be to be strong. I just gave up. Now come to bar from where I start and from nobody told me the road one being, I don't believe he's walking this far to be show you no to be done even when

I can't click me. I told that when it's a cat, can't come far from where I say it told me a number one want me, but dad, I don't believe. Non't bepla no, no, no, no no, But I came far or too. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be. I don't come in the fire the fire come mind you who know what I said that it was on the day I know I can't. Are

you struggling to cope with life? Conflict, bereavement, fear, relationship, anger, depression, negative thoughts, trauma and uncertainty can all cause emotional imbalance. Don't struggle alone. CCS, your trusted confidential counseling service, is here for you. Call our listening line on zero double three zero one double three two nine four five, our office line for appointments on zero two zero double seven two three eight zero five zero, or visit our website www dot CCS

Counseling dot org dot UK. Our counselors speak various languages. CCS a shoulder to lean on, we are here to listen. Okay, Yes, there's an ad advert for Cornerstone Councilage right there, definitely, and I love that shoulder to lean on right there. And before that we had Mary. Mary can't give up now because as we said, yes, things I'll do get difficult, but there is help out there, There is support there. So just before the music we were talking about the benefits of therapy, getting getting

some support and therapeutic support. But I guess and I kind of we've sort of lead a little bit to it. Obviously, we're highlighting Cornerstone to being a Christian. It's part of our STA Saint the Adventist Church, and it's a Christian organization. It's a Christian counseling service. So I guess I's wanted to move into talking about spirituality, faith, being a Christian and how that kind of links into therapeutic support. Is there a link? Is it important

to the things kind of can they merge together? You know, you're a Christian service, so I'd be interested to know sort of what the benefits are their benefits in that for Christians non Christians. But I guess there's sort of the intersection between being a Christian spirituality. How does that link him with the

idea of therapy that could be to either of you. Going to pass that on to Tenby as well, but our in Silu, I think maybe the best place to start is is there a difference between Christian counseling and secular counseling? And I would say yes and no. Yes in that the training no sorry no, in that the training is the same. We do the same training, Like I did my my diploma in therapeutic counseling at New Bold and

I went and did my Masters in Counseling at Nottingham University. So the difference is me, I am the difference between secular counseling and Christian counseling because I'm

a Christian. As a Christian and as a Christian counseling service, before I see my clients, I would pray for my clients, and as an agency, when we used to do face to face before we go in to see into different rooms to see clients, would huddle together and pray and ask for the Holy experience, wisdom, guidance, compassionate, compassion, and everything that we need to meet the needs of the client. Right and and yes, whether I see a Christian or non Christian, I still work with them the

same. If I have a Christian counselor and they come into the room, I'm not going to impose Christianity in the counseling room. I'll just do general counseling. Unless they ask could you pray with me? Could you help me with my faith? Then we incorporate that. And there isn't being you can take it for granted. Oh that's oh, this is a Seventh Day advantage. They're a Christian or another Christian, they're coming into a Christian counseling service

and then a Bible besh them. Yet part of their problem is actually anger with God. M este. That was my question. If if isn't there a certain expectation, if they're coming to a Christian counseling service, that there will be guard embedded in the in the in the in the help that's offered, in the service that's offered. But yeah, you've you've answered that for

me. Yeah. Yeah. And also as cornerstone as a service, we don't only work with Christians, and we don't only have Christian labeled counselors either, so it's a service that's accessible to anybody. So that's definitely kind of what Tim Behaves said, like, however, the client wants to be worked with, that's how we work with them. So me personally, if I have a client who is a Christian and one that isn't, my approach is

going to be very similar. But it depends on what the client asks for and as long as it's within our ethical guidelines, I'm like, yeah, everything's they're getting to be perfectly honest, but yeah, it's really dependent on what they want and what they need and what they want to talk about because sometimes people again might be hesitant to talk about certain things, especially about faith and religion to a therapist because sometimes it sometimes flies in the faith of the

people who have been taught and understand about God. But it's not taboo, so like there's nothing off limits pretty much for us ad counters. That was actually gonna be my question was do you guys have preventors and also non Christians working in the council, And because my my question was gonna be was what Angela said that was, you know, the difference because when I was younger,

I've been married three times. My first marriage, I went to counseling and it seemed like when we went to the counseling it was non Christian. My wife and I we all get more after the counseling because it was so much stuff brought up that it was actually detrimental to our marriage. And then you know that it hurt our marriage more because we argued, it fought more afterwards because she like, I can't believe you said this, or I can't

believe you said that. But then when I got counseling in my third marriage and it was a Christian base with a pastor, it helped us more. It was more so like, do you feel like if you are Christian,

you should get Christian counseling because like Dunstone, I'm accident. I maybe saying it wrong you because I kind of realized that as I grew, as I grew that I should have got in the beginning, I maybe it should got No, it was actually my second marriage I should have got Christian counseling because it seemed like it it flowed better with our with our belief and our understanding than the other way, and it just it just made it easier for us

to kind of grasp it and understand it more or better for us as a couple. M M. Yeah, Yeah, I'm sorry it didn't go away for you with that. That's fine, you know what, I'm I guess what, you know what, I'm not not to catch you out real quick. I'm a firm belief of this that everything happens for a reason. It just wasn't meant to be. But it made me better for my third marriage, so it like it just prepared me for my next marriage. So I

don't ever like say like I'm sorry that it didn't work out. It just didn't work out. You know. It's one of those things. But I call it a blessing in disguise. So yeah, for me, it was just, you know, a stepping stone. Yeah, I would say the difference there for me wasn't that the the one was kind of Christian and one was not, but the councellor themselves, because really they should have been able to contain those arguments, to contain the discussions in such a way that there

is no argument after the session, or you are ways off. And of course we can we cannot underestimate the power of the influence of the Holy Spirit when we pray for our clients before and after the session, so you're continuously held in prayer. When we have our meetings at Cornerstone, we pray for our clients and we don't pray for them by name in the middle of everybody to say, oh, I'm praying for grace my client because they're going for

this. We just pray for our clients in general. And if there's a really sticky issue, can you pray for my client for this? But nobody knows who that client is. We don't bring the name, so we don't breach confidentiality. So I would say that that's the difference. But every counselor should be able to contain you and hold you in such a way that when you leave the session there is better damage control that place. You want to add something, Yeah, it's a really good point that you asked Pedro,

and I think it has got It's down to the individual preference. It's no better or worse. It's all about the skiller of the counselor or the therapist. It's like some people might want to see a therapist. Here's a woman, some people might want to see a black therapist, and all of those

things will go into the preference because it's about the lived experience. So people might feel comfortable with someone that has a saying you will similar lived experience as them, and they will look for counselors they look like their et cetera. And yeah, it's all to do with that. So a skill counselor or a therapists should be able to as them be said, to be said,

work with any client. But it's always the case in reality. So how can we sort of sort of debunk those kinds of myths and those stigmas around the idea of so, you know, in some ways, I guess as a Christian it would be ideal for me to look for a Christian counselor for instance. Or does that really make a difference, or the idea that actually, as a Christian I shouldn't have to seek professional help because that's demonstrating a lack of faith in God, etc. Etc. There's those kind of things

that I know I've heard and sometimes you're not necessarily encouraged. And I do believe things are getting better within our churches and what have you. We have our service here but I still wonder whether people don't access because there is a fear or they think, oh, you know, if you've talked about confidentiality, but people may still think, actually, people are going to know my business and you know they're in the church, I might see them all those

kind of things. So how can we kind of debunk that? And you've mentioned about confidentiality, that's a really key thing, and you know you're bound by you know, the ethical code everything else, but you know, how can we get around that to kind of encourage more people to kind of access support and professional health. And it's it's not that we're not relying on God's help, but it's okay to access. Everyone's a vessel, right, so God has certain people. It's just like saying I'm not going to go to

the doctor today. No, my leg really hurts because I should be going to God. But God hasn't the people do medical doctors, so then you can go and see it's the same thing, so really, don't There's nothing wrong with praying. There's nothing wrong with seeing counsels, nothing wrong with going

to church, and you know, sending prayer requests. Absolutely do that, but sometimes you need to be able to help yourself to prevent things from occurring and help yourself to be able to navigate through difficulties through the people that are trained to do so. So I thought I would say to people, But to be honest, I think there's a lot of myths that are around counseling

and therapy, not just in the Christian circles. I think really over the last maybe even just ten years, the shift about understanding about what soopy is and how it can be used in access has exponentially changed. Like it's crazy, I could never have imagined where we are now from where we were even ten years ago. So many things have changed, like the accessibility of counseling, how people are talking about it, how people are talking about their mental

health in general, suicide awareness. It's all changed. So those taboo quote unquote subjects I think aren't as taboo anymore, and the more we talk about it, but it becomes because just because your account you're Christian doesn't mean you don't get depressed. Just because you're Christian doesn't mean that you don't get pastramatic stress disorder. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you're not on medication for

a psychiatric disorder. All of those things exist in real life. It's real, so we need to be able to be acquit to deal with them. Otherwise we're doing our brothers and sifters a disservice. To be honest, I like what you said there, Grace. I mean a broken mind, a broken heart is just as a broken leg, a broken elbow. And if we seek treatment for those and we should treat seek treatment for the other, or we should if we seek treatment for one, we should seek treatment for

the other. I really like what you said there, and I think that's to open our eyes because a lot of us, or a lot of people are very weary of accessing the support that they need. And that would bring me to the question of to either of you, when do you know is that an individual thing? Is there any guidance that you can offer? When do I need to go beyond my knees and pick up the phone and call And it's as simple as that, cleaning up the phone and calling Colesterne or

I'm visiting my GP. When do you know that you need to and how can you access the support that you need? I think that that is a good question when you when you come to a stage whereby, in fact, our emotional ill health has got an impact on our spirituality. You would get to a stage whereby you can't even pray. Your emotional wound is now paralyzing your whole life. You're struggling to connect with others, to connect with God,

relationships all around are difficult. Then you realize you need to talk to somebody as well as that your emotional ill health also impacts your physical ill health, Like there's such a link. So things like people having different automune conditions that can be triggered by stress, not always but sometimes insomnia, heart conditions.

Like I'm not going to start real ingen off the scientific research papers, but there's such a link between mind and body, and oftentimes you don't realize you're going to the dots with the same complaint, Oh my arm hurts, my arm hurts, My arm hurt. And then you're realizing, actually, it's a numbness that's caused actually by stress and anxiety. But I didn't even know that there was a link between muscle numbness and anxiety. It's one of

the symptoms, but you wouldn't never know. You think that's, oh, there's something physiologically wrong with me here, and there might be, but sometimes it's also psychological. Yeah yeah, yeah. There's a statistic I read uh that says on mental health. First Aid England reports that seventy to seventy five

percent of people with a diagnosable mental health problem do not receive treatment. And I'm that scary because it just means that there are so many of us out there who should access to services who don't, and like you said, Grace, this could lead to a myriad of other problems in every other facet of our lives. That actually comes to my question, can hear myself? We can hear you in the in the church, or in just in general.

As an Adventist or as a Christian, I find like we see we can sometimes see that somebody needs help, but we will not offer them or not interact with them to a system in getting help. Do you find that we're getting better at that or we still or still a long way from from doing

that. So, like you know, you're in the church and you see somebody and they made you can see that there's something just not right, or they may be the press or but we won't because like say, for like marriage, like you you know, you see two people, they're married and you see that they're having trouble, but nobody says nothing to them. And then a year later they divorcing. Like I can't believe they got divorced, but a year ago you saw it, you saw it leading up to it,

but nobody says nothing to them. So do you think that how can we get better at trying to help our fellow man and you know, brothers and sisters to work on themselves because like you said, sometimes people just don't want to admit that they need help. Well, yeah, it's a good question, tell me. Yeah. You know. One of the things that

we have done is Cornerstone Counseling Service. Starting twenty twenty one, we started training mental health first aiders and the recommendation from Mental Health Foundation or First Aid Foundation mental Health first Aid England is that for every one first aider you have in a church or organization, you need two or three mental health first aiders because of the very same thing that you've said mentioned Pedro, that we see these issues playing in front of us, we don't know how to engage with

them. We don't know how to help, We don't know how to point to professionals. We don't know how to assist non judgmentally in an accepting way. And it brings us back to having safe spaces, yes, and being a safe person. Am I a safe person not only physically but emotionally and spiritually? Can people comfortable come to me and talk with me without feeling that they will be judged, that they can really just talk and be themselves.

So if we have this foundation in our churches, which we did, I think we trained over three hundred and seventy something mental health first aiders across the South of England which is our territory. We trained our pastors. Some areas like Area Forehead all their pastors trained as mental health fast aiders. So with this mental health fast aid training, you are trained how to pick up these issues very quickly. You are trained how to approach and assist and how to

involve family and support support network and how to actually signposts to professionals. So that's one thing that we have done and we've handed that over to the Health Department because it's quite a lot for us to follow through as cornerstone. Our hands are flu are full, but at that time we didn't have a health director and we just said to take it on. Okay, so it's going to be an area that they're going to be hopefully following up because I've just

recently done my training. Actually i've done it. I've just redid it because I think you have to redo it after every three years. So I just did the two day one, but I wasn't aware that's actually that had happened. So definitely something to kind of push, how can you do that training? So you said that the health the health directors hopefully take that on the Health department. I will be looking, Okay, it's you said you pass it on to the health department. Yes, government or because you know,

I get confused when people say certain things here. The sec department is a good point because I was thinking we used to the health department. I'm thinking of government. So I'm like, oh, they like why and then I'm like, you see, that's why. That's why you ask questions because I you know, I still get confused with the way the verbage sometimes when you

guys say certain things. No ways. Also, a lot of workplaces are depending on your jaw, will have access to this, and a lot of workplaces my old job had free training form into health or staid as well, so they had that internally. So if you want to access it in free work, it's the same training, so it's fine. It will yeah or transfer to setting or if not, you can access it through I'm sure Tenby

will tell you how to contact the Health Health Department. Yeah. Yeah, and some councils run IF free IF free training as well, and you can go directly to the Mental Health Faced Aid UK and access it. There is a fee to for it and for those in churches, some churches sponsor their own and also for those in the South of England in the Seventh Day Advantage Church, we actually do have trainers from Mental Mental Health First Aid England that

have given us a discounted fee that we give to our people. So if you get a group of about sixteen people, it will be about a hundred pounds per person instead of two hundred and fifty if you access it directly from Mental Health First Aid England. I'm going to talk to my job about that, yeah, because my job actually, in all honesty, I didn't say what I do, but my job I go to people's homes for drug testing.

So I go to people's home to cut their hair to the scalp or I take their blood, so I take their nails, or take whatever needs to be taken. So it could be drug testing because they're unfortunately having issues with the cords, with their children, whatever the case may be. And I think, like with my job, that would benefit to be able to recognize things in general because it's just you see so many different types of people you know, going through stuff, you know, with their partner, with

themselves, or just in general. So I think I'm gonna talk to my job about that because I don't they don't offer that. Yeah, I ask them and speak to like I just talked to right direct. We have a private company, so I could just look directly to the owner. Yeah that will work too. Yeah, just directed to the owner and just bring it up as a suggestion and then if he takes it, he takes it. Everything he don't. Yeah, yeah, I would say that to anyone listening.

I mean, if you're in, if you are inspired, or you want to become a mental health first and then speak up, speak to your pastor speak to your your the owner of your business that you work or hr or anybody, because they're not enough from mental health first days. Facts, it can never be and if you do want like to ask questions, feel free to like contact some of the cornerstone mission sign post is that okay,

yes, yeah, letally definitely. And also another way, it's like I'm talking about my personal home church, I think there are mental health professionals already that work in a lot of churches, Like that's one thing about this day Church. We've highly skippled in so many different areas. So you might get someone who already is a mental health nurse. But I can think of like three people I know in my church and mental health nurses, social workers,

people that work in counseling services as well. And then and then obviously you've got your family life ministries team as well. They might also be trained or they might already work in a professional job that lends itself to that. So if it's someone that you trust and know that they've got that kind of role outside of work, fund something that you trust. In general, talking to

someone who is better than talking to nobody. So I'd encourage to kind of like find out who they are if you don't know them, and if you do know them, then go to them and they might be able to signpost and a lot of our pastors obviously are trained in that as well. Yes, yeah, I even want to flip the script a little bit because Pedrol spoke of you know, us noticing people who are struggling. But there is

this you know, secrecy and this facade that we put on. Everything's okay, we've got it, we've got it under control, and we're not really willing to talk. Or as you said to Emily, we just don't feel and grace that we can trust for people around us. And I think Antelo in order to that as well, that we just feel our business is going to be all out the door or we're going to be judged. And I

think we have to change that mindset as well. Not only do we have to notice people who are struggling, but we also have to be willing to say we are struggling, put our hands up, can can can you help? There's nothing, there's nothing wrong, there's no weakness, there's no shame in saying that I need help. We all need help in some areas, almost some area of our lives. Can I say it's a little quick to that point. My my belief sometimes is that people already know what you're going

through. They just don't say nothing. Yeah, I mean no, like you're like, you don't want to put your stuff out there, but if somebody knows in the church, it's not I may be saying it wrong. It's just this is my belief. I'm not saying this is clinical. I'm not saying this is professional. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying me personally. Like sometimes, like I was saying, you, people always we notice you have good friends, or we notice things and you think that

you're hiding it, but you're not really hiding it. And people people, people know but they just don't say nothing because you know, like a, yeah, we are good at hiding. But something that in the dark come out to the light is somebody knows something. I think the challenge I'm going to say, I think the challenge always is though sometimes when you think about church often, I mean we will talk about we have friends within our church, but often we only see people once a week. Sometimes we are not

connecting with people during the week. You know, the friends in some respects, a lot of our friends from church are quite superficial friends because they're one day a week, people not always connecting. So it's very easy to pretend everything's okay, and then there is sometimes that challenge of okay. You may say to somebody, somebody may ask you how you're doing. You start to sit, you start to say you realize that person it's just like, oh,

dear, why do I ask a question? Because I don't really want to take it on. I'm sometimes the connections with people are not always there to say, yep, I really want to help here. You want to find out what's going on for you. But the key thing, as you was saying, you know, it is about how we can create those safe

spaces, find those people that you trust. I mean when I was talking about this to a friend earlier today, you know, they were saying about talking about Jesus and we're talking about you know, why Christians should access therapy. Part of the benefits has actually been able to connect with somebody. We need people around us. You know, we are not an island. We as much as we people like their own company or whatever, we need people.

The same way Jesus had his disciples. He could he commute with God on a regular I'm sure you know we know that, but he had twelve people around him who he could talk to, who he could kind of eat with, he could fellowship with. That must have been I'm sure that was therapeutic for him. You know, he had an inner circle as well, separate three. So you know, sometimes we need to be really working to

build those connections. It's not necessarily going to be everybody, as Grace said, it's finding those people that you trust if they are professionals and practitioners with this kind of feel even better, you know. But and I'm going to sort of plug ballom here. They've set a person like a mental health team and department made with practitioners, but actually then working on projects where they are creating spaces for young people, for the elderly members where you can actually have

those kind of conversations. It can be difficult to trust. I'm not necessarily saying it's that's necessarily an easy thing, especially if you've had bad experiences in the past. But to kind of foster those sort of things within our church, it's a community, which in reality is what we should be doing anyway. You know, if this shouldn't be an alien concept to us at all, that's what we should be doing. That's what the church is supposed to

be there for. But it's you know, equally as then, as you said, we have to be open to be able to share what's going on, you know, And I always say to when I'm at work to my students, don't suffer in silence, you know, reach out sooner rather than later. Don't bury yourhead and discern. And you know, the student does

easier said than done. Again, I recognize that, probably guilty of that myself, but you know, that's what we want to encourage people to do, to reach out because there is support there, particularly in the church. Because again, we just feel that we have to have we have to have it together. I mean, and behind closed doors, we're dealing with drugs, we're dealing with abuse, we're dealing with that, and we are very good. I'm sorry, but I'm going to I know that we are.

We are very good at keeping certain things behind closed doors. And these are things that we struggle with and we don't want anybody to know that. We struggle until perhaps it's too late, and then it starts moving out and then it starts showing, but by that point we're already in the deep. So yeah, I think we have to be we have to change that culture where

we are willing, we're able. We understand that it's not a sign of weakness, it's not a sign of lack of faith, not a sign of lack of God and all that other other things that we kind of associate with it. That I think that's what we need to get help. I think that's what the next one. I think that's what the two ladies were saying, Grace. Yeah, I'm gonna say your name wrong because I'm not gonna

says them right saying names. But I think they said that earlier when they were saying that by prayer, like like when we have when you have youth meetings and you want the youth to talk, but they don't talk because then the older folks get up and they started saying, oh, just pray to God, it will go away. And you know, you're just like, no, you don't need to, like you know, and I just think that we need like you said, we's prayer is good. It's wonderful,

it works, it helps, it's the best thing ever. But just getting that extra sometimes you get you in the church and you feel like you're secluded because you can't you can't get that connection that you're trying to get because you you have that feeling like sometimes when people talking to you, they're just trying

to get information about you. Yeah, so then you start putting up that wall, you stop putting up that that that thing of like, oh you know what, I'm not going to deal with them because I just you know, it just don't it don't feel genuine. So just getting through that is trying to break that wall down, trying to get that you know where you

where you do feel comfortable in church, but you don't. I think sometimes in church if it's always I think we got into this habit of which we should that you know, prayer and God, but it's changed a little bit where we need to start saying if you need help, you can reach out. You just you can use God, but you can reach out for other

to other avenues to get help. Yeah, sometimes the church gets stuck in that where you can't reach out because you reach out, that means you're weak, Like you said, it means your weak, it means you're sinful, means you're doing something wrong and you're not you just need help. Yeah, we have those services as well, because I'm just thinking, I don't think I can't remember many times where said to me. Oh yeah, you know, we have our own counseling service, you know, reach out to them

or reach out to other organizations. So definitely agree with that. Sorry tell me I cut you there. Sorry, go ahead, now that's okay. Thank you for those comments. I think one of the biggest greatest gifts orders given each one of us, whether in the church or in the community, is the ability to listen. If only we could listen to the people who talk to us, listen to here to understand, not listen to give advice

or to judge. Only we would learn to listen, we would be able to sign posts people appropriately, and some of the issues that end up in the counseling room. If this person got a listening ear right from the beginning, especially with young people, the problem would have been solved. Solved. Somebody just needs to be able to listen. And instead of us saying what's wrong with you? When we see the things as you're saying, Pedro, we see there's something going on, and we say what's wrong with you,

we probably need to reframe that to what has happened to you? What happened to you? Then that gives the person some confidence and gods to be able

to say, Hey, this is what I'm going through. And that's one of the advantages of having a mental health faced AIDA within your church, within your community, because they can sport that they know how to approach you and they know how to talk with you at that And there's also kind of like what Pitdow is talking about, there are some it's about being emotionally intelligent and aware and not everyone's leged into that. Not everyone has. We think it's

common like skill that everybody has. Also, a lot of people are very good at hiding we have in certain parts of society. It's not just Christian, religious whatever. There's so many people that are hiding themselves and they are suffering. Like I could realize the amount of people who are in the public eye that have submit to health disorders or they've unfortunately taken that own life and everyone shops like, oh, they were the life and soul of the party.

They were always the comedian, they were always happy. You have no idea and you'll never know because they will never ever let on. And it's those ones that are probably the ones that are in the most in danger.

So it's about not taking for granted that not everybody is able to access that help, and we need to be able to share the load with people because people are carrying so much on their shoulders that you would not realize unless you just did that thing Tenby said, which is just to have a little bit of a listening ear. Is there something that is slightly not right? Like, you know them, you know how they move, You've noticed there not

come to church for a while. You've noticed they're a bit snappier, You've noticed that. You know, it's something's just going on. It's not the norm. Say something to them, ask them what's going Are you okay? What's happened? And then you'll be surprised to hear cool. Yeah, we're exactly. It's going to take a music break and they're going to come back and we're going to talk a little bit of how we can actually do that

and how people can access this support. And it's something easier for some, but we're going to go with Babby Mason, a son called trust his heart. All things work for Cool, though sometimes we don't see how they could. Struggles that break or hearts and two sometimes blinds to the truth. A father knows what's best for house. His ways are not So when your pathway grows deep and you just don't see him, remember you're never alone. God is too wise to be mistaken. God is too good to be unkind.

Too, when you don't understand, when you don't see his plan, when you can't trace his hand, trust his heart, trust his heart. He sees the last plan, and he holds up your chu in his pay, So too, bears those who have a Hoby is loud in his please see the prayers and cleaning, But he sees the first the last, and like a timestrey, he's weeping. You have to someday be just like a good He is too wise to be mistaken. God is too good to be unkind.

So when you don't understand, when your dancies is pray, when you can't trace his and trust his heart. He alone is faithful truth make He alone knows what is best for you. Art is too wise to be mistaken. God is too good to be unkind. So when you don't understay, when you don't see his gray, when you can't resist, and trust his heart, when you don't understan, when you don't see his when you can't races, trustees, trustees, Okay, so trust his heart. I love

the lyrics of it's actually God is too wise to be mistaken. God, it's so kind, it's good to be unkind. Ultimately we need to trust his heart. But a part of that is he is He is giving people the gift to be able to be the listeners, to be the councilor to be the practitioners to give us access. You know, I got a message shift, Yeah, go ahead and say I got a message saying just that. It says when you pray, God sends people your way to support you,

He sends help us. We individually just need to identify if the person will be supportive to us. And that's one of the messages that's come through. So, I mean God is part of the healing process and you know, not separate to or or you know, a different facet of It's one package. We pray and he heals and sometimes he provides us with practitioners at doctors, you know, David, to be able to get us through the

problem that we're facing. Yes, So at this point we've gone through and we've spoken a lot about the different types of therapy, different sort of support, the different practitioners and the way which they work. So how does somebody go about you know, I think any did ask the question, at what point would you reach out? But what is kind of the process? And I guess there's different ways, and there are different ways to access I know

that in itself can be a bit of a challenge for many reasons. But what would you know, what would what advice would you give to somebody who is considering who's considering counseling or therapy, and how would they go about doing that and how to find somebody or the best person for them. I would say, first of all, there's lots of free services. You don't have to get your wallet out and your PayPal account out first, because because it's

not you, it's not everybody is able to access those private services. So I would say, talk to your GP at the first port of court. And I think that feeling ashamed, And again, some people are in a really tricky situations, so they might already feel like if they say anything to their GP, that will put them in a vulnerable position to do with like children, social services, at all of those kinds of things. Your GPS did not shouldn't Yeah, it shouldn't be that scared. But if that is

the case, I've separate issue. I would say go to your GP and just say tell them how you're feeling. And usually the first port of call is they will refer you to talking therapies in your local authority, your local council or have a talking therapy service, and that will probably be about six to eight sessions of cognitive behavioral therapy in the first instance, and that will

help you to be able to navigate some of those issue. Depending on what the issue is, sometimes they might not refer you to their they'll refer you somewhere else, but usually that's the first port of call. If you don't want to access to NHS services. There are three other free or low cost services, like there's a charity called Family Line. Actually just one of my placements with them. Family Action is the website i'll put all of these.

And then there's Frontline Therapy which is low cost. And there's also another service called Black Minds Matter that was set up after George Floyd in twenty twenty and they primarily work with black people in the UK, and I think that is

free, a free service. Oftentimes they're quite a subscribed. And then you've also got mind your local mind services and Mind is like a franchise mental health charity, but every local authority will have a MIND center and they have lots of different therapeutic support packages for different things, so you can call them free of charge. And I think all of their services are either free or very

very very low cost. I don't even think they're paid for services. And then you've got corner stay, but I'll leave that attending cool, Thank you, thank you, grace, and yes to access corner Stones. You can call us on our numbers that are Adventists radio land and continuously advertised, so you'll find that we've got two numbers. We've got a listening line where you

can just call to have a trained listener listen to you. They're not qualified counselors, but they are trained listeners and they know when to refer, so they will listen to you and at some point they will say, right, I think you need a counselor, and they immediately pass it on to the counselors and we pick it up and allocate you a counselor. So that number is zero three three zero one three three two four nine five. That is

our listening line. Zero three three zero one three three two four nine five and we are open from eight am to twelve midnight, seven days a week, even on the subbath. And then we do have the office line for booking for booking appointments which is or two or seven seven two three eight zero five zero. That is the office line for booking appointments at Cornerstone or two

or seven seven two three eight zero five zero. And the firstest way of booking an appointment is going to our website and you do a self referr. So you go to our website which is ww dot SI is canceling dot org dot uk book a self referral where it says book a session. You book your session there. For most people, they tend to pay before they get an appointment, so don't do that. Make sure you hear from us first, which you do as soon as you send your referral form. We respond

by sending an assessment form to you which you need to complete. And with that assessment form, it will actually highlight if you are at risk and then we prioritize you. And that assessment form is very important because it's the one that will help us know which cancelor to allocate you. Without that, we can't allocate you a counselor, and Grace, can I just quickly ask ahead? Go ahead? Now? I was just asking, is should I have

a preference to whether I ask for a female, a black female? Should anybody have that kind of preference someone who's, as Grace said, had the same experiences as myself as a help? Is that hinder? That doesn't even matter? Oh? Yes, When you go to our website you'll see our counselors. Sometimes it's just the face that you like that you think I can

work with that. And counselors don't take offense even you know, like even when you book it a session and they're given a counselor and you're just on the first session you just feels I don't think I can work with this person. That's fine. You're allowed to change counselors. And also when you go to our website, you can click any face and their bio comes up. You read up about them, you get to understand who they are, how they work, and then you say, oh, I want this one.

That's also allowed? And is there a long waiting list? Because I know sometimes this can be the challenge for services after they are over subscribed, and sometimes you know you could be waiting weeks and weeks, but for a bit. With Cornerstone, is there a long waiting waiting time for appointments. Yeah, there is a waiting list, but I would say according to other waiting lists, we don't have a two year waiting list or a one year waiting

list. What we tend to do as well at Cornerstone is if you've been on our waiting list for a month, we tend to call all the people on our waiting list and say you are still on our waiting list. You've got an option. We can refer you to other agencies or to other private counselors. Most of our counselors do have private practices, so we can refer you there or to any other agencies, or do you still want to stay

on our waiting list. Of course, the prices then differ for private and for any other agents where we refer you, So some people choose to stay, some people say yes, I'm happy to be referred, okay, okay. And that brings me to the question of fees. Do you pay for counseling services at Cornerstone? Yes, you do, with what a very discounted fee of thirty pounds for individuals, couples and families forty five pounds, and

trauma fifty pounds. Why is the difference in in phase With individual sessions, it's thirty pounds because it's one hour, Couples and families tend to be one end half hours, and trauma it's even more time. That's why we say it's fifty pounds. And just to mention that nobody has ever been turned away from counseling at Cornerstone. We do work with everybody. Those who can afford,

those who can't afford. We ask the more they can afford. And mostly we do this because as research as shown, people don't value things they get for free. They start saying, oh, why is it free. It's because it's not professional, and this for your own self worth to say I've contributed to this and your commitment and determination to better yourself an investment the

self investment in your mental and emotional health. And I've got to really quickly add so it's somebody saying, none of the volunteer counselors, we don't get paid. It's not coming to us. The money going to run the service. Yeah, it takes a lot to run the service. The Testaments to attend and the two because it's a lot. It's a lot, so yeah, we don't we're not getting that money as individual countlant. Yeah. Yeah, well it's fast spent and I'm just looking at the time and suddenly we're

here a similar clock. But that's been Those things have been really interesting to hear because there are sometimes barriers and sometimes the financial perspective it's definitely one of them, or just to some of the things that we've highlighted as well, can barrier to that. But I guess if you to say, sort of as because we're closing, one thing that you could say to encourage somebody to access support, what would that be? You know, why should would we?

What the benefits? Yeah, what would be your sort of lasting thoughts on that? I'm going to kind of go around to everybody to kind of comment on that in our final moments. So what would be your here you're one thing as a kind of takeaway or thing you would like to highlight. I would say, don't hesitate to seek counseling, whether it's from Cornerstone or from anywhere, and always make sure you are comfortable with the counselor. I was working with you. Okay, thank you. Grace. Thoughts to yourself

very similar. So if you try someone and you don't click and it doesn't work, first of all, don't be scared. And second a boy doesn't work, there's like hundreds of thousands of therapists that you can try, so there will always be someone that fits you and that you can work with. Okay, cool, thank you, Pedro. Pretty much what they just I'm gonna just say the same thing pretty much. If you feel that you need help, reach out like she like she said, like Grace said, there's

plenty of people. I'm sure there's somebody out there that can help you. And don't be afraid to to reach out because it doesn't pay the suffer in silence because all you're doing is hurting yourself and your family. Yeah, so reach out, okay, son, Yeah, I would have to say that reaching out is biblical. I don't know why we think, and so many of us think that it's either or if we've got faith, we don't need to. But it's biblical. We've spoken about Jesus and his circle and it's

inner circle. I mean, the Bible is full of you know, we're in a probably eleven fourteen fifteen, rental counselors, the people fail of us eighteen fifteen. The heart of the the heart of the heart of the prudence, getteth knowledge and the ear of the wise secrets knowledge, Bibles full of pointing us towards counsel seeking counselor. Obviously, the first port of port is God, definitely, And I'm kind of reminded one of my favorite texts,

which I've now lost, as I fought to one verse ten. It says, fear enough, I'm with you being not displayed, for I am your God. I will strengthening you, want to help you. I'll uphold you with my righteous right hand. And I really believe I was sort of really thinking about there's a visual but his hand has lots of fingers, and I think they are the people that reach out to help us. You know, God is there ultimately as our number one, but there are people who can

support you. So, as everybody's said, don't hesitate, reach out. It's not always going to be the easiest thing, and that's maybe where your prayer will come into that and your own faith. But there is support out there. There is help for you. As I said, our time as fast spent. It's been a great conversation. I want to really thank you Grace and tenB for coming on today. That's not going to be the end

though. This whole of this month, the rest of the less couple of weeks are going to be dead had too highlighting areas and themes around that impact our mental health and how Cornerstone can be supportive. So ten being Grace, maybe you're on back on in over the next few weeks, and maybe some other counselors as well from the service. I don't want to thank you for the conversation. As we said, do reach out if you do need.

We'll be continuing the theme. We'll be continuing with talking points and it'll always come up talking about mental health. It's a subject dear to our hearts. Definitely want to raise the awareness, bring that conversation to the four. So

we're going to finish today. What anybody mind praying for us? I meant to put it in the chat before to ask if any would pray just to clothes and to bless the thoughts somebody, to encourage those people who are struggling or maybe not, because I guess therapy could also be seen as maintenance as well, but anybody agree, yeah, tell me thank you so thank you and let us pray. Father God. We just want to say thank you for this day, thank you for the sabbath rest, thank you for this

discussion that we have had. And we pray that the things we have discussed have helped somebody out there to feel comfortable to reach out to a trusted person, to a mental health faest aid, to their pastor, to counseling services, to Cornerstone or any other counseling service that is around. And we pray that through it all, as you desire for us will also prosper in good health, mental health and spiritual health. Thank you for this radio program that

highlers so many important things that needs to be said. Thank you for the presenters, and thank you for eating. Every person who listen today. Well, we have prayed in Jesus name, Amen, thank you telling me, Thank you, brace that you do. Thank you definitely, thank you so much. We're gonna finish for today and I'm going to play Yolanda Adam Adams. Still I rise because despite the things that can keep try and keep us down, God and his supporters and those who are supporting us can help us

to rise above those challenges. So it's good night for myself. Senya and Pedro, Grace and Tembi, thank you so much for our show today, and we'll be back next week with another topic along these themes. Again, if you do want to kind of join the conversation, we want to hear from you, So do you get in cut with the studio either please want to hear your stories, or if you want to come on as a guest,

please do so. We're gonna end with Yolanda Adams. Still I rise good night and enjoy the rest of the weekend shatter, but I'm not roudgain and day, but time will the load the cross I beard lonely, the load I try, I dare shake again, but here I stay. We still grass love the night, the teens I cry, dark days go side in the sky. Yet still bras never to give, never to give it against he had still and time time fel it's still some time time trouble,

but not in dispace. Truely I make my way through trys. They come to make misstro I past, and I past, and still never to give, never to given against the strip. At one time feel it's still eyes rise above all my problems above all my eyes can see. No, I'm not able to strengthen, me, to strengthen and be got still to all, to giving against all, still on the po at times I feel yet still. I need to know which on to know yet still time feel oh

it Stu boy Suddain. Yeah. Are you struggling to cope with life? Conflict, bereavement, fear, relationship, anger, depression, negative thoughts, trauma and uncertainty can all cause emotional imbalance. Don't struggle alone. CCS your trusted confidential counseling service here for you. Call our listening line on zero double three zero one double three two nine four five. Our office line for appointments on zero two zero double seven two three eight zero five zero, or visit

our website www dot CCS Counseling dot org dot UK. Our counselors speak various languages. CCS a shoulder to lean on. We are here to listen. Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song